*DEBATE* Should the UK leave the EU?

[Eckuii]

Should the UK leave the EU?

The UK (United Kingdom) is part of the 25 European countries in the EU
(European Union), but do you think that the UK should leave the European Union?

The European Union has done lots for us during the 32 years that UK has been in 'The economic association. Such as:

Combining nations together to stop another destructive conflict such as the ones in the past
(WW1 and WW2) There has not been a conflict between the EU/EC nations
since the foundation of the EU. We now have a sence of 'cooperation' between the countries
that we have been to war against.

The EU has also looked at the Economic point of view, many of the UK's businesses trade with other EU countries such as: Germany, France and Spain.
Many people in the UK have jobs because of the EU. (From Truck drivers
to business men)
Without the EU the economy of the country could be worse.

The EU has helped British citizens by making it a legal requirement for firms
to give workers 4 weeks pail leave ever year.
British Citizens can work in any EU state (country) without needing a Visa Card.
Even though people are taking advantage of this law, it is still a very good law.

The EU has benifited 'The future' (The young adults of the country).
Students who study in a EU country are charged the same as a citizen who already lives there, they dont have to pay expensive internetional fees. Many British choose to study abroad.

Th European laws have a supremacy (to dominate or defeat) over British laws.
Do you want none British citizens to say how the UK is run? After all, they dont live here and maybe dont have the best intrests of British citizens at heart...

What do you think?
Should the UK leave the Eu?

Rules
Please do not comment with "yeah it should" or "No it shouldnt" please make relevent points and point of views aswell as evidence to back up your post. Thanks [/U]

[joe:-,]

I think the UK should stay in the EU as we are better united then un-united and also the EU has helped the UK in many ways e.g the war :) i believe the uk should stay united with the EU :)

[BLuweesH]

Well. I can see the beneficial points for the UK being in the EU. They're located Europe.

But what would be the good and bad points if it leaves the EU?

If the EU has benefited the UK that much, why would they wanna leave...

Concentric - Super Mod
Please only post in a debate if you have some specific points to make, for example by explaining how the EU has benefited the UK. It is against the debating section rules to post without supporting your points with reasoning or statistics.

[le harry]

I see no point in the change, the EU has been suported etc, but Im not to sure, down in Australia we dont discuss the UK ;)

Concentric - Super Mod
Please don't post in a debate unless you know about or have opinions on the topic. It is against the debating section rules to post without supporting your points with reasoning or statistics.

[TealArms]

It is better to be in then to be out as we will loose out on things.

Concentric - Super Mod
Please do not post in a debate unless you wish to make a sophisticated and extensive arguement. It is against the debating section rules to post without supporting your points with reasoning or statistics.

[Mit]

There are always two sides to every coin and the EU is one of those issues that will probably never be 90% agreed on.

There are many good points about being in the EU, it makes travelling around Europe a lot easier, we don't need to sign extra documents like non EU countries do. Also the EU provides jobs and gives a lot of money to the UK. Farmers from the UK get a lot of money from the EU, but that may be decreased now if Tony Blair gives it away :rolleyes:.

Now I'm going to go a bit UKIP on you. The EU costs tax payers from the UK a lot of money each year, in fact billions, a lot of the time this money is going to countries we don't trade with and itis not benefitting people in the UK. Laws are put in place by the EU that may not work well in the UK, sure it may work well in Romania but does it work as well in the UK? The EU has also changed British ways of farming and fishing many say it is wasteful and expensive because of the EU. There is also the fact that the UK is under pressure to join the Euro which would mean having no independent currency for people of the UK. The EU trading systems cost a lot as well, unlike ones seen in other continents UK is having to pay more to rade than some non-EU members! We are also paying for problems in other countries when our countries has problems of its own. We are paying for to fund Pensioners in mainland Europe when our own aren't in good conditions. Many people also complain that other Europeans are coming and taking British peoples jobs, but a lot of these are jobs people from the UK don'tr want anyway.

In conclusion I still believe we should stay in the EU, although we could stay in the European trade group and get the benefits from that.

[ilovejordan]

I think we should stay in the Eu however, There are two sides and Mit yes taxpayers money does go to other countries but just think, We are helping them and hopefully if we are ever in need they will help us. As mentioned above the eu has stopped many conflicts and has created a lot of jobs. Can you imagine what it would be like without it? I would like to meet someone who believes we should leave because that would be a very interesting arguement. Also a lot of people believe we sould leave because a lot of the EU countries use the euro and at one point we might have changed to it. It is argueable that we should leave and stick to pound sterling however we are using pound sterling now and have done for the past god knows how many years so why can't we carry on?

In conclusion i believe we should stay in the EU.

[djotto1991]

Well.... The longer we stay in the EU the more protected we will be against other nations because no other countries want to leave the Eu and risk losing portection so they wont attack any E.U countries.
Therefore as part of the E.U we are safer.
But The E.U also decides some of our decision we make and decided wether they are safe enough for the other countries aswell

I think we should stay in the E.U because if we leave we losr protection and we may be refused permission to join the E.U ever again so leaving would hurt the country badly

[Concentric]

I think the UK should stay in the EU as we are better united then un-united and also the EU has helped the UK in many ways e.g the war :) i believe the uk should stay united with the EU :)
Sorry to pounce on you here, but that doesn't make any sense. How has the EU supported the UK in "the war" (by which i assume you mean Iraq)? Other major EU members such as France and Germany were opposed to the war. Please explain what you mean.

Further to this, do you have any reasoning to support your idea that we're better of united than seperate? Why exactly are we better off like that? To my mind we're worse off to certain extent, because we end up having to support the other less economically successful EU members.
For example, between 1995 and 2003 Britatin paid more into the EU per person than France and Italy, despite getting far less back due to having a far smaller farming industry and most of the EU subsidies being farming related (the UK pays roughly £6billion into the EU for agricultural use, and would get very little back if it weren't for the ~£2-3billion rebate).

[Concentric]

PLEASE REMEMBER;

It is against the debating section rules to post without supporting your points with reasoning or statistics.

Instead of just posting "Britain is better off in the EU.", explain why it's better off.

[Adam$]

Although Britain will be better funded if we leave, I personally think we should stay in the EU. We would be funded better if we left as the taxpayer's money shouldn't have to go to other countries, but, if we left, we would not be protected as much, as the other countries would not be there for us.

[ilovejordan]

Sorry to pounce on you here, but that doesn't make any sense. How has the EU supported the UK in "the war" (by which i assume you mean Iraq)? Other major EU members such as France and Germany were opposed to the war. Please explain what you mean.

Further to this, do you have any reasoning to support your idea that we're better of united than seperate? Why exactly are we better off like that? To my mind we're worse off to certain extent, because we end up having to support the other less economically successful EU members.
For example, between 1995 and 2003 Britatin paid more into the EU per person than France and Italy, despite getting far less back due to having a far smaller farming industry and most of the EU subsidies being farming related (the UK pays roughly £6billion into the EU for agricultural use, and would get very little back if it weren't for the ~£2-3billion rebate).

But if we ever needed help the eu and other countries would help us?

[RuthLess]

I think we should stay in the EU as they have supported us over the years.

Concentric - Super Mod
PLEASE(!!!!!) try to elaborate on any point you make in a debate. Do not simply post a one sentence answer in which you do not justify or support your points with reasoning or statistics.

[ross]

Ah, what an interesting debate.

Now is the time for Britain to talk about withdrawing from the European Union? right.. Should We Stay or Should We Go?, is the question.

Most of Britian sees the conflict over the constitution as a battle between the forces of Old Europe, led by France and Germany ('statist, tax-devouring etc) and New Europe ('more market-flexible, politically loose). New Europe is led by Britain, but with the very important fresh allies of Eastern European countries that have recently joined the EU, and which are more drawn towards the British and American political model -

Some research and I have found that 'the EU did nothing to free Poland, the Czech Republic, Estonia, Slovakia, Slovenia, Lithuania, Latvia and Hungary from the Soviet empire' -

At a time when the possibility now exists of sending so severe a shock to the EU's system that change is unavoidable, it would be crazy, now of all times, to consider withdrawal, we'll get a lucky escape if we do leave now.
If the referendum is allowed to turn into a vote for or against EU membership, it will let the Euro-federalists off the hook.. will it not?

Better off out! is what I think.

Most of Britian feel that the whole EU project has gone too far, and that the surrender of sovereignty involved is already so serious, that the only answer is to withdraw completely. The threat to our sovereignty, our democracy and our centuries-old tradition of self-government, coupled with the huge costs and institutionalised corruption of the EU. The only way forward is out.

Leaving the EU would be a liberating, refreshing, positive, modern thing to do. And we would be very much richer as well! Think about it, not having to worry about the other EU countries and their problems, we can make Britian a better place, well the government can :P

So, I say it again "The only way forward is out."

Britian should leave the EU.

[NekkLe]

Ah, what an interesting debate.

Now is the time for Britain to talk about withdrawing from the European Union? right.. Should We Stay or Should We Go?, is the question.

Most of Britian sees the conflict over the constitution as a battle between the forces of Old Europe, led by France and Germany ('statist, tax-devouring etc) and New Europe ('more market-flexible, politically loose). New Europe is led by Britain, but with the very important fresh allies of Eastern European countries that have recently joined the EU, and which are more drawn towards the British and American political model -

Some research and I have found that 'the EU did nothing to free Poland, the Czech Republic, Estonia, Slovakia, Slovenia, Lithuania, Latvia and Hungary from the Soviet empire' -

At a time when the possibility now exists of sending so severe a shock to the EU's system that change is unavoidable, it would be crazy, now of all times, to consider withdrawal, we'll get a lucky escape if we do leave now.
If the referendum is allowed to turn into a vote for or against EU membership, it will let the Euro-federalists off the hook.. will it not?

Better off out! is what I think.

Most of Britian feel that the whole EU project has gone too far, and that the surrender of sovereignty involved is already so serious, that the only answer is to withdraw completely. The threat to our sovereignty, our democracy and our centuries-old tradition of self-government, coupled with the huge costs and institutionalised corruption of the EU. The only way forward is out.

Leaving the EU would be a liberating, refreshing, positive, modern thing to do. And we would be very much richer as well! Think about it, not having to worry about the other EU countries and their problems, we can make Britian a better place, well the government can :P

So, I say it again "The only way forward is out."

Britian should leave the EU.
Surley if we lleft the EU we'd have to allie with another country, being an independant country would leave us vulnerable in future wars or debt. If we were to ally with a country, it would have to be a supreme MEDC (More economically developed country), the US. Them being one of the biggest MEDC's in the world would help the UK along in future.
Sure the UK would be in a better position than we are of today but theres always setbacks like i've already stated.

I'll state veiws based on both we should stay or we should leave.

We should stay.
I think the UK should keep there position within the EU because;
- Trade:Many EU states rely on the UK's trade, for example, woods, plastics they all come from different spots around the world and if you have a plot of some, other countries will want to trade with you.

- Freedom of movement of citizens:A very good law but abused quite alot. A combined community of citizens allowed to live in EU states makes it good for business, education and trade.

We should leave.
On this, I think the UK should leave the EU for reasons such as;
- Trade:Sure trade is good when you have a system equally trading with each other, everything goes smooth, right? What would happen if we withdrew our position from the EU? Were still legally aloud to trade with many countries still within the EU. Like I said, many countries have high demands for our trade, look at Switzerland, Norway, and Iceland, they all have a seperate treaty with each other, a smaller community but with almost all the same powers as the EU has. Its sadi that they trade up to twice as more than the UK with countries such as China and India which demand so highly of there resources, they make profit from there trade.

- Freedom of movement of citizens:As I stated, its a good law but it does come with a few sneaky and money consuming catches. Many South Eastern countries migrate to wealthier EU states such as the UK, they know they will live an easier and simple life. But along with that, tax is needed to fund for there required living. This is why there is a constant increase in tax per year, with more citizens migrating to the UK there has to be more houses built, schools, hospitals leaving not enough thought on improving and moving up a notch on levels of research.
Leaving the EU would benefit the UK by upgrading the research for healthcare, education and other subjects of life that need looking at. A scenario given for the EU would be the Titanic, once a sparkly new adventurer to a sinking ship.

If the UK don't leave the EU suddenly then we might get too tied up and be left with no way out.
The best way of life, an idol country is Australia, segregated from the worries of others than themselves, using there money to help benefit there own people. This is how every country in the world should be like but we've come too far in time to look back at that now. We've formed Unions such as the EU, UN and NATO reason being because all the countries in the world cannot be trusted at this time, the revelution of nukeleare war has made man's thought a little more suspicous.

To conclude my thoughts, I agree that the UK should leave the EU.

Opinions and veiws written by NekkLe

[:paschendale:]

I think we benefit somewhat from it, but if we were to leave immigration rates would be better.

Concentric - Super Mod
PLEASE(!!!!!) try to elaborate on any point you make in a debate. Do not simply post a one sentence answer in which you do not justify or support your points with reasoning or statistics.

[ross]

Surley if we lleft the EU we'd have to allie with another country, being an independant country would leave us vulnerable in future wars or debt. If we were to ally with a country, it would have to be a supreme MEDC (More economically developed country), the US. Them being one of the biggest MEDC's in the world would help the UK along in future.
Sure the UK would be in a better position than we are of today but theres always setbacks like i've already stated.

I'll state veiws based on both we should stay or we should leave.

We should stay.
I think the UK should keep there position within the EU because;
- Trade:Many EU states rely on the UK's trade, for example, woods, plastics they all come from different spots around the world and if you have a plot of some, other countries will want to trade with you.

- Freedom of movement of citizens:A very good law but abused quite alot. A combined community of citizens allowed to live in EU states makes it good for business, education and trade.

We should leave.
On this, I think the UK should leave the EU for reasons such as;
- Trade:Sure trade is good when you have a system equally trading with each other, everything goes smooth, right? What would happen if we withdrew our position from the EU? Were still legally aloud to trade with many countries still within the EU. Like I said, many countries have high demands for our trade, look at Switzerland, Norway, and Iceland, they all have a seperate treaty with each other, a smaller community but with almost all the same powers as the EU has. Its sadi that they trade up to twice as more than the UK with countries such as China and India which demand so highly of there resources, they make profit from there trade.

- Freedom of movement of citizens:As I stated, its a good law but it does come with a few sneaky and money consuming catches. Many South Eastern countries migrate to wealthier EU states such as the UK, they know they will live an easier and simple life. But along with that, tax is needed to fund for there required living. This is why there is a constant increase in tax per year, with more citizens migrating to the UK there has to be more houses built, schools, hospitals leaving not enough thought on improving and moving up a notch on levels of research.
Leaving the EU would benefit the UK by upgrading the research for healthcare, education and other subjects of life that need looking at. A scenario given for the EU would be the Titanic, once a sparkly new adventurer to a sinking ship.

If the UK don't leave the EU suddenly then we might get too tied up and be left with no way out.
The best way of life, an idol country is Australia, segregated from the worries of others than themselves, using there money to help benefit there own people. This is how every country in the world should be like but we've come too far in time to look back at that now. We've formed Unions such as the EU, UN and NATO reason being because all the countries in the world cannot be trusted at this time, the revelution of nukeleare war has made man's thought a little more suspicous.

To conclude my thoughts, I agree that the UK should leave the EU.

Opinions and veiws written by NekkLe
Exactly. If we leave now, it's an easy escape and we're better off.

Nice Nathan. :)

Concentric - Super Mod
Ideally in a debating environment you would wait until you had enough to say to make your point worthwhile before interjecting; i.e. not simply posting to congratulate another debater on their point without adding anything of your own or elaborating on that issue.

[JT-Fan]

Should Britain stay in the EU?


Personally I believe Britain should stay in the European Union. For many different reasons which I am going to speak about in this post. They all revolve around one key idea. That key idea Look at what Europe has done for us. So without any more chit-chat let me put my point across, which has been backed up with key evidence and facts.



Jobs.


With the population of Britain rapidly expanding more jobs have to be made. The EU created 3.5 Million jobs for British citizens, which is very good. Because with the freedom to work, live and travel to other countries in the EU it has made many Britains do as so.
In 1998 over 450,000 British citizens where living/moved to countries in the EU.



Buisness.



We have a lot of trade within Britain. But 50% of our trade goes to Europe. Over 700,000 British companies have links and buisness deals in Europe.
In 2000 59% of trade in Britain was with members of the EU. Also out of 10 top trading partners, 8 of them are based in Europe.


International matters.


Britain and the EU have together made many matters work and many peace plans happen. In Western Europe for 50 years there has been a peace plan. On matters such as Climate change and Global warming, the EU as a whole has much more impact/say in the matter than the UK alone.



Benifits for British Citizens.


In the UK citizens have seen many Benifits since joining the EU. Since the E111 scheme if a British holiday maker was to go on holiday to a country within the EU and were to fall ill, they would get the same treatment in another country in the EU as they would at home.


Overall I believe that YES Britain should stay in the EU.

[pechie100]

I think they should
Yes
Edit by Baving (Super Mod) - Please try and support your opinion with evidence or reasons, and put just post simple answers like 'Yes I Agree'

[Concentric]

You all seem to be hooked on the idea that Britain will be left vulnerable and won't have any allies if we leave the EU. This is nonsense. The EU does not bind the nations by any form of military alliance, so whether we are in or out of the EU makes no difference. Take the war in Iraq, for example. Did all the other EU member states have to go to war with us, just because we were in the EU with them? Of course not, most of them opposed it. Other EU members would do sod all to protect Britain if we were engaged in conflict, whether we are fellow members or not, so Britain would not be vulnerable as a non-EU member (at least not militarily).

[NekkLe]

Exactly^

If in the future, England decided to declare war against a country linked or related to the EU, the states would decide whether to settle this situation. If we were to be left an independant country, we'd have both a war commencing and political chit chat whether to prevent us from attacking.

Its up to the council to decide if they should engage or not and seeing that England does alot to fund the EU, I very much doubt all th EU states would avenge us due to various reasons.
Ofcourse the EU wasn't formed to make a strong military force, we know what it was formed for. Obviously we would still have allies whether or not we did have a war, like I said, our trade is highly demanded for, the UK is used to house millions of foreign families, turning agaisnt us would make the matter worse.

[sconicca]

I dnt really no wt eu is lmao x

Concentric - Super Mod
Please don't bother posting in a debate if you have no idea what the subject is. Simply posting that you have no idea what anyone's talking about is not constructive.

[Eckuii]

The winner of this debate is Mit Click Here (http://www.habboxforum.com/showpost.php?p=1282632&postcount=6) to see the post that made him win this debate!

Most people who posted in this thread thought that the UK (United Kingdom) should remain in the EU (European Union) because it provides travell around Europe, protection (Security), Trade and and just an alround better Economy. However people have posted reasons why we Should leave the EU, some reasons are the threat to our sovereignty, our democracy and our centuries-old tradition of self-government (Thanks Klocks ;))

Many people in the Thread are concerned about British citizens. Therefore Mit is the winner of this Thread.
He gave both sides to the Debates. (Didnt make rubbish/Pointless Posts), he also gave a solution saying that if we left the EU we could just join the European trade and benifit from this.
He too came to the conclusion that the United Kingdom SHOULD stay in the European Union.
That makes him the debates Winner. Well done :)