Vegetarianism?

[Ezzie.]

What's everyones views on eating meat? I personally don't really like the taste of meat anymore, used to eat it constantly when i was a lil kid but now not much..

Few reasons dont eat meat nomore:
. taste of it's pretty cack
. How they kill them is just dang! http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5084913749215112840&pl=true for example "/

What's everyones views? Post maturely please, and no flaming from either sides ^^

[Wootzeh]

Thanks for that video =/

[Mr.Kylee]

I used to like meat..ate it a lot but last few years I only eat chicken meat and fish ;)

[Craig]

I have all the views of a vegetarian I just can't become one! It sounds contradictory but my love for fish, and tuna in particular is strong. I eat Tuna probably once a day,maybe 5-6 times a week. Plus I can't resist some of the meaty foods on offer despite my views =/

[Seatherny]

I used to eat chicken till like when I was 8 yrs old. After that I became a vegetarian.

[HellyBelly]

I have all the views of a vegetarian I just can't become one! It sounds contradictory but my love for fish, and tuna in particular is strong. I eat Tuna probably once a day,maybe 5-6 times a week. Plus I can't resist some of the meaty foods on offer despite my views =/

what he said basically :]
I don't like much food, but the food i do like is mostly meat.

And that video is gross.

[JT-Fan]

Been a vegitarian all my life.

[Ezzie.]

I've been gonig off meat for ages now.. Only things i'll eat are eggs, as it's still a bit cruel keepng them in cages but at elast they have a life "/ and they're gunna try and get all chickens free range soon so the eggs will be nicer etc and theyll live happier lives.

but that video pmg there was liek 100 sheep lieing on the floor wreathing in agony, makes you wanna puke :l

[Tash.]

I'm a veggie, have been for about 3 years. Just went off meat after I saw Jamie Oliver makin them chicken nuggets. Enough to make you question everything you eat.

[danny1541]

If its on my plate i will eat anything accept if i dont know what it is.

[FlyingJesus]

Why does it matter how it's killed? In the wild, animals are ripped limb from limb, many predators incapacitate their prey before finishing them off, it's just natural. Humans are predators by nature, and so if you're against high pollution rates or nuclear testing or anything that changes the course of nature, then instead of complaining about how animals are killed for meat, eat it and stop messing with nature, because basically, if you don't eat meat you're just as bad as people who drop chemical waste in rivers - messing with nature is dangerous however you do it.

[-:Undertaker:-]

I Love meat, But remember the way them sheep were killed doesn't happen everywere, it Mostly only happends in Back-To-Frount countries.

[Ezzie.]

a gazel can feed a familly of lions for a week...
Lions kill once or twice a week? we kill thousands a week and dude if you're going to be ignorant and not respect peoples views then leave

[FlyingJesus]

I'm not being ignorant, and I'm not disrespecting other peoples' opinions, I'm simply stating fact. Maybe a gazelle can feed a family of lions for a week, but humans need more than that. That's a solid fact, an evolutionary thing - we require lots of food. I don't see how I'm the ignorant one when you blindly look past the fact that humans, by nature, kill to eat, and do it a lot. You let morals get in the way of nature, that's just as bad as letting war get in the way of nature, because the natural way of how things work is still getting ruined.

[JT-Fan]

Aint eaten meat since I was born, and dont intend to eat meat ever!

[Tom H]

I like meat, Its has some useless sources of nutrition, But i dont eat it daily.

[Herman]

I LOVE meat. You can't change my views on it. </3 It's just too tasty.

+ FlyingJesus has a point, the food chain.

[cocaine]

It is natural for animals (If you have to class humans as animals) to kill and eat meat.

[Ezzie.]

I'm not being ignorant, and I'm not disrespecting other peoples' opinions, I'm simply stating fact. Maybe a gazelle can feed a family of lions for a week, but humans need more than that. That's a solid fact, an evolutionary thing - we require lots of food. I don't see how I'm the ignorant one when you blindly look past the fact that humans, by nature, kill to eat, and do it a lot. You let morals get in the way of nature, that's just as bad as letting war get in the way of nature, because the natural way of how things work is still getting ruined.

Ok put it this way.

world war two. The nazis killed 10s of thousands of people by gassing chambers etc, truly dreadfull and was mankinds most sickening point in life, it was desgraceful and every knew it was, yet animals get put through the same thing but millions upon millions.

Puts things into perspective yes?

Also. If aliens came down started using us breeding us and making the world overpopulated and then slitting all our throats for their dinner how would you feel? You can't complain to be honest? Seems like you do the same thing o.O

I respect your opinions but I'm trying to put things into perspective ere.

[Herman]

It is natural for animals (If you have to class humans as animals) to kill and eat meat.
Yeah, we're sort of like animals, after all we're mammals.

[iluvben]

Tbh I don't give a CRAPPPPPPPPPPPPPPP about how they torture the chickens , break their necks or what not because the videos have been prove fake plus their tastey ! And thats what matters x] I loveeeeeee bacon ,turkey , chicken , beef , lamb and duck ummmmm meat meat meat and tbh you wouldn't be here if your ancestors didn't kill animals for food.

[Ezzie.]

Actually you can live on fruit ect ^_^ plants were around when animals were around too yano o.o but although some vids are fake it is actually been proven that it does happen. was on gmtv a while ago

[FlyingJesus]

Ok put it this way.

world war two. The nazis killed 10s of thousands of people by gassing chambers etc, truly dreadfull and was mankinds most sickening point in life, it was desgraceful and every knew it was, yet animals get put through the same thing but millions upon millions.

Puts things into perspective yes?

Also. If aliens came down started using us breeding us and making the world overpopulated and then slitting all our throats for their dinner how would you feel? You can't complain to be honest? Seems like you do the same thing o.O

I respect your opinions but I'm trying to put things into perspective ere.

Humans are sentient beings, meaning we have a full range of emotions and understand why things happen and why they affect us. You can say that animals feel pain too, but what happens in normal animals is that their nerves are triggered, and they react in such a way that we see it and recognise it as being in pain (because of how we react ourselves). However, animal "pain" is simply an instinctive reaction to attempt to get away from the source of whatever it is that threatens their continued life. As far as scientists are aware, the closest thing to a sentient life form on Earth that isn't humans is the dolphin, and no-one I know eats dolphins.

[Ezzie.]

Humans are sentient beings, meaning we have a full range of emotions and understand why things happen and why they affect us. You can say that animals feel pain too, but what happens in normal animals is that their nerves are triggered, and they react in such a way that we see it and recognise it as being in pain (because of how we react ourselves). However, animal "pain" is simply an instinctive reaction to attempt to get away from the source of whatever it is that threatens their continued life. As far as scientists are aware, the closest thing to a sentient life form on Earth that isn't humans is the dolphin, and no-one I know eats dolphins.

My cat has kidney/bowel desease (the vets think) And you can see in his face he is in pain... to say that animals don't feel pain, just a natural reaction to run is arrogant :s Do you know any humans who were a sheep/chicken? i mean lol how would they know -.-

[iluvben]

Actually you can live on fruit ect ^_^ plants were around when animals were around too yano o.o but although some vids are fake it is actually been proven that it does happen. was on gmtv a while ago
Yes well plants are alive , just because you can't hear them scream or moan doesn't mean that they do not feel pain and I highly doubt it cavemen would be able to survive on just fruit.

[Ezzie.]

I don't actually think they can feel pain o.o (plants) Because all they are is a living organism with no brain or anything.

[Adam$]

I am not a vegitarian, but I do agree that the video isn't that pleasant.

[Ezzie.]

Why can't they kill them with a bullet or somthing? not pleasent but it's humane and they wouldn't know what was going on.. leaving em to die there kinda . ;l

[Wayne]

I am not a vegetarian and to be honest, some videos that show violence to chickens and cows etc doesn't really turn me off meats or chicken.

[FlyingJesus]

If plants can't feel pain as we do, why do animals? Some plants shrink away from touch, and if you've listened to your biology teacher at all you'd know that plants are reactive to light and heat. They have a system of nerves just like any other living thing, it's just as arrogant to say plants don't feel pain as it is to say animals don't.

[Ezzie.]

But they thrive on light/heat and tbh i'm not sure whther they DO feel pain, noone really knows? Their "life" is totally different to ours, it's quite confusing. But would you like to be a tree lol? peed on by dogs all day <3

[FlyingJesus]

A pig's life is completely different to mine, just because we have similar organs and structures doesn't mean we're the same.

[Ezzie.]

Yes but i meant as in a trees life, it stands still for 80 years if it's an oak thrives on moisutre etc. And we never eat "plants" we eat the products of a plant, so we're not causing them pain whatsoever. Unless you take the whole plant our of the dirt which would obviously cause it to die

[FlyingJesus]

So you don't eat carrots, potatoes, or any other root vegetable? Or lettuces? And eating their fruits is like eating a foetus, it's the fertilised seeds of that plant.

[iluvben]

If plants can't feel pain as we do, why do animals? Some plants shrink away from touch, and if you've listened to your biology teacher at all you'd know that plants are reactive to light and heat. They have a system of nerves just like any other living thing, it's just as arrogant to say plants don't feel pain as it is to say animals don't.
Well said <3333333

[Ezzie.]

So you don't eat carrots, potatoes, or any other root vegetable? Or lettuces? And eating their fruits is like eating a foetus, it's the fertilised seeds of that plant.

But potatoes aren't like trees etc, they just grow and that's it? correct me if i'm wrong.

[-:Undertaker:-]

I Agree with FlyingJesus 100%



The animals only feel abit of pain when their thouts are slit, And most Countries use Sharp knives so the animal doesnt feel ANY pain.


In the wild sheep get ripped to pices, Also we kill more animals than lions etc.. do because we are the domantant species.

[Ezzie.]

I wanna know how they don't feel pain ^_^ they have a nerve system you know? :s

[-:Undertaker:-]

If you have your throat slit with a sharp knife and the slit is deep you dont feel pain, Same with breaking your neck, if you snap it completey your dead, But if you snap it in a certain area you can be alive and in agony.

[Ezzie.]

http://www.wellcome.ac.uk/en/pain/microsite/culture2.html
Good for and against for pain in animals. The pain in plants is bull as they don't have a brain to relay pain back to them so that arguments flawed.
But if you watch the video, the people aren't just slitting their throats they're beating them dragging them acros the floor letting them be trampled on and everything .

[Craig]

If you have your throat slit with a sharp knife and the slit is deep you dont feel pain, Same with breaking your neck, if you snap it completey your dead, But if you snap it in a certain area you can be alive and in agony.

Their not always killed like that =/ Their mistreated way more before it aswell. Just imagine being Chinese tortured for hours and then caged in a place where you can't move.

[Ezzie.]

What craig said also look at my previous post which yu may have missed cos craig posted

[iluvben]

Plant killer.

[Craig]

Plant killer.

Plant's are genetically different and if your a herbivore you need plants to survive "/ But if you a herbivore/vegetarian you don't need meat to survive.

[Ezzie.]

plants have no consious thought they just live to help the enviroment

[iluvben]

So thats a reason to end their life ?

[Crono]

I watched a video on www.kentuckyfriedcruelty.com that showed what they do to the chickens they serve at KFC. There was a part where they had the chickens at some place and the workers were just stomping on the chickens and throwing them up against walls.

If I wasn't already a vegetarian I would be after watching that.

[Craig]

So thats a reason to end their life ?

They have no 'life' as we and animals know it. =/

[Ezzie.]

They are a part of the ecosystem the job of a plant is to provide food and change carbon dhioxide to oxygen, haven't you learnt you science? o.O

[FlyingJesus]

..And the job of lesser animals (as in, those lower in the food chain) is to feed those higher up, ie: us. If you'd learned your carbon cycle theory from biology you'd know that the animals pass on the energy too, meaning their "job" is exactly the same as that of the plants.

Eamonn, +rep for being hilarious whilst making some pretty valid points. If you don't want to kill animals, don't kill plants either. They may not be alive in the same way we are, but they are still alive. No, they don't have brains, but their nerves still process reactions exactly the same as how our brains do. If you're going to argue that animals feel pain, stop walking on grass.

[Ezzie.]

a) plants don't feel pain, b)animals aren't meant to die... they're meant to live. If there was a higher species than us then that would make us born to die? Everyone has to die sometime but cutting a life short is pointless. If there is say no god (which i don't believe) Then all the animals get one chance on this earth and it's cut short. Some fo the baby lambs get killed at just a few months old? That's the same as killing a two year old human..

[FlyingJesus]

It's nothing like killing a human. As I've said before, we're sentient. Lambs in the wild without humans would still be killed anyway, like I've been saying throughout, it's natural. Cutting life short in this case isn't "pointless" either, it's so that I can have a tasty snack.

Also, you haven't given any proof whatsoever that plants don't feel pain, you're just repeating your opinion over and over in the hope that I'll just give in. How about a reason?

[Ezzie.]

So it's natural for humans to come load them in trucks slit their throats (100s at a time) then put them in vans slice + dice and serve em at mcdonalds? yeah o.O

[FlyingJesus]

Well yes actually, that's how we've evolved... but nevertheless, the amount that are killed would be the same if the livestock lived among us and we just killed whenever we needed to eat.

[BL!NKEY]

If plants can't feel pain as we do, why do animals? Some plants shrink away from touch, and if you've listened to your biology teacher at all you'd know that plants are reactive to light and heat. They have a system of nerves just like any other living thing, it's just as arrogant to say plants don't feel pain as it is to say animals don't.


Also, you haven't given any proof whatsoever that plants don't feel pain, you're just repeating your opinion over and over in the hope that I'll just give in. How about a reason?


Are you trying to argue that plants feel pain?

[Ezzie.]

I know blinkey rofl, his arguments are detiorating ^^

[Rashelly]

Thank you PETA for brainwashing young, impressionable kids into joining your cult and giving you money to put out more propaganda.
That video shows what happens to a minority of animals. Coming from kind of a farming family, I can tell you that the majority of animals bred, raised and slaughtered are not treated cruely like that video shows.
If anyone knew anything about PETA, they'd know that their not exactly the worlds most reliable source when it comes to animal cruelty. Most of the money they actually make, doesn't go towards helping animals at all, probably goes to some fat man in a suit, with gout...possibly from eating too much meat - Oh wouldn't that be ironic?
Oh yes, and then there's goveg.com, run by...shock shock, PETA.
They blatantly use celebrities to entice sheep, the metaphoric kind, to become vegetarian.
I'm all for vegetarianism if it's done for the correct reasons, but how many of you, who call yourself vegetarian, and oh killing animals is SO WRONG, how many of you actually have leather shoes? clothing? heck even FILM for cameras have animal products in. I'll garuntee that 99% of you still use items/products that have been made with some part of an animal.
Little word that comes to mind there. Hypocrites.
Another point, most of you have seem to forgotten that these animals were bred for this purpose...If we didn't breed them for food etc, they wouldn't be bred at all...So they wouldn't even exsist.

So it's natural for humans to come load them in trucks slit their throats (100s at a time) then put them in vans slice + dice and serve em at mcdonalds? yeah o.O
They serve meat at McDonalds now?
Shocking, I thought it was cardboard.

[Craig]

I know what you mean about PETA "/ Have you seen petakillsanimals.com or something? =/

And surely if the animals were left by themselves they'd end up breeding anyway?

[Ezzie.]

Good point Rach I agrere with you but one of the reasons i don't eat meat atm is because it tastes horrible, the killing of animals is just an added thing that I don't really approve of. What's PETA? by the way? I've heard of them but never really know much info.

[Craig]

www.petatv.com Ezzie <_<

Check it out.

[Ezzie.]

wait don't theese nuts actually kill mroe animals than save?

[louder]

I only really like chicken and bacon... I hate the way they kill them too.

[Craig]

Ezzie try www.petakillsanimals.com or www.petakillanimals.com
one of them two.

[-:Undertaker:-]

Their not always killed like that =/ Their mistreated way more before it aswell. Just imagine being Chinese tortured for hours and then caged in a place where you can't move.




I doubt the people in the bussines torture them for fun, I dont see many sheeps in electric chairs, or being hanged..


Also Slitting a sheeps throat is humaine, Sometimes with bulltes the sheep can be alive but unconius in total agony.

With slitting a throat the sheep doesnt feel any pain unless its done with a blunt knife.

[FlyingJesus]

Are you trying to argue that plants feel pain?

No, I was arguing that if animals that aren't sentient like us can, there's the possibility that plants do, and killing a plant is as bad (or as natural, which is good). I personally don't believe that plants or animals feel pain in the same way we do, but also because of my arrogant human predator instinct, I don't particularly care if they do anyway.


Another point, most of you have seem to forgotten that these animals were bred for this purpose...If we didn't breed them for food etc, they wouldn't be bred at all...So they wouldn't even exsist.

Hooray for people who know what they're on about, +rep

[ilovejordan]

I don't actually think they can feel pain o.o (plants) Because all they are is a living organism with no brain or anything.

Its a proven fact that when a plant is pulled out of the ground or killed it screams. The hz is too loud for us too hear however.

[SimplyTech]

Animals feel pain lol
If i kick my dog [which i wouldnt cause hes great] hed feel pain

I am a vegitarian [since i was 5]
Personally i think eating meat is cruel especially some of the ways they kill the animals but then again thats my opinion

So basically i dont eat meat because i think its cruel but if you want to then go ahead be a murderer :badgrin:

[Herman]

Animals feel pain lol
If i kick my dog [which i wouldnt cause hes great] hed feel pain

I am a vegitarian [since i was 5]
Personally i think eating meat is cruel especially some of the ways they kill the animals but then again thats my opinion

So basically i dont eat meat because i think its cruel but if you want to then go ahead be a murderer :badgrin:
I'm not a murderer. :P Humans eat meat because we're part of the food chain. :)

[HellyBelly]

Its a proven fact that when a plant is pulled out of the ground or killed it screams. The hz is too loud for us too hear however.

really? ;o
that's weirdddd

[velvet]

So basically i dont eat meat because i think its cruel but if you want to then go ahead be a murderer :badgrin:

I'm a vegaterian,I have been for five years, I don't eat meat because I don't feel the need to, as there is plenty of substitutes, and I couldn't personally eat an animal.
However, I don't believe that people who eat meat are 'murderers' As the human species are omnivores, meaning they needto eat both Vegtables and meat to survive. So eating meat is more natural than being vegaterian as that is how our bodys are designed.

[Grindie]

My view:

Meats tastes nice, end of story.

[Mentor]

Meh i like my meat "/ vegiratism is pointless really, if you dont like the taste fair enogh, But in realty, its unhealthy and isnt helping any animals "/
For a start most the species eaten wouldnt even exist if it wernt for are need to eat them, they get quick painless deaths as opposed to the long painful ones nature supplys "/

[discoball.]

I have all the views of a vegetarian I just can't become one!

Yeah same, I just can't live without chicken.

[Ezzie.]

I just tried veggie burgers :D they're flipping nice lol

[RedStratocas]

I used to not understand why vegetarians ate fish, and I found 1 reason for some vegitarians to eat fish. It depends on their cause. If they feel its wrong to eat animals, they cant eat fish. If they dont like the way farm animals are treated, and their vegitarianism is a protest, then fish is okay.

Our family is starting to turn to vegetarianism, however we still eat meat for nutrients. No purpose, we are just getting a bit sick of the price for lack of quality. (No, you idiots who think meat is bad for you, meat IS good for you if proportions are used apropriately.) When I go to college however, I'll be eating less. I just don't like the taste.

[ilovejordan]

really? ;o
that's weirdddd


yea it was on a science test a while back :P

[SimplyTech]

I'm a vegaterian,I have been for five years, I don't eat meat because I don't feel the need to, as there is plenty of substitutes, and I couldn't personally eat an animal.
However, I don't believe that people who eat meat are 'murderers' As the human species are omnivores, meaning they needto eat both Vegtables and meat to survive. So eating meat is more natural than being vegaterian as that is how our bodys are designed.
i know lol hence the canines i just thought my post was a bit weak so i thought id throw in a bit of accusations

hmmmm i wanna start an arguement i know who the best for getting angry is lol
So mentor lol
Nature supplies a NATURAL death you talk about the food chain but animals are supposed to be wild and free not mass culled. You wouldnt say ummm a rabbit has a long and painful death instead of a quick one would you cause they are free as nature intended.

[Mentor]

Nature supplies a NATURAL death you talk about the food chain but animals are supposed to be wild and free not mass culled. You wouldnt say ummm a rabbit has a long and painful death instead of a quick one would you cause they are free as nature intended.
I already waiting to something to start a debate on :D althogh i would usealy have waited for something a little better...

1) Rabbits are eaten commonly by humans? notice the furry things hanging in the majorty of butchers?

2) Remember humans created mixamotisis the desise respoancable for the painful death of Millions of rabbits, becuse they were a pest? if more ate them that woulnt be so.. and rabbits would have had far less painfull deaths, The desises is unnatural. us eating them Is natral

3) humans are part of the food chain, we work in much the same way, but are population has long been far to massive to be sustinaed via natral means, Under the laws of nature, humans would eat the food, food would get scarse, humans starve, the food populations rise again.
But since humans dont want to die, and are smart enogh to get around the problem, We farm animals so as to forfill are own nutritinal needs and not die?
If your vergitaion becuse you want to react normaly, youd be more accuret by ceaseing to eat full stop, or maybe takeing a trip to africa so you can get mauled by a lion, since humans aint nessarly the top of the chain at all times "/
Althogh the natrual there, is still unnatral, since humans are naturaly interlignet, and natraly use that inteligence to benifit themselves :)

4) painless death by humans, for eating. Slowly ripped appart and eaten alive by a fox or something, then eaten... not a hard choise imo

[velvet]

I'm a vegaterian,I have been for five years, I don't eat meat because I don't feel the need to, as there is plenty of substitutes, and I couldn't personally eat an animal.
However, I don't believe that people who eat meat are 'murderers' As the human species are omnivores, meaning they needto eat both Vegtables and meat to survive. So eating meat is more natural than being vegaterian as that is how our bodys are designed.

Can't edit now, but I ment 'arn't murderers' :]

[Mentor]

Can't edit now, but I ment 'arn't murderers' :]
wait im confused?
I don't believe that people who eat meat are 'murderers'
People who eat meat are NOT murders

with correction
I don't believe that people who eat meat arn't 'murderers'
People who eat meat are Murders


Im kinda confused which your actaly intending to mean, since context wize the first seemed to make much more sence, which could indecated your rephrasing based on a misread?

[SimplyTech]

lol
Id rather get ripped to shreds because id of led a longer life than in meat production right now heres an example

*True story*
My aunty works in a farm where the chicks come in a van and go into the hut when they are 1 day old. It is a huge wooden hut and there are 1000s of chickens in there. All the foods done by machine etc. Then when they are 5 weeks old they are taken out and slaughtered. So would you rather that or live a few years hmmm hard choice

[velvet]

wait im confused?
I don't believe that people who eat meat are 'murderers'
People who eat meat are NOT murders

with correction
I don't believe that people who eat meat arn't 'murderers'
People who eat meat are Murders


Im kinda confused which your actaly intending to mean, since context wize the first seemed to make much more sence, which could indecated your rephrasing based on a misread?

Yeah I was right the first time S;
I've confused myself now, but yeah, people who eat meat arn't murderers, as that's how nature intended it, even though i'm vegaterian myself.

[Mentor]

lol
Id rather get ripped to shreds because id of led a longer life than in meat production right now heres an example

*True story*
My aunty works in a farm where the chicks come in a van and go into the hut when they are 1 day old. It is a huge wooden hut and there are 1000s of chickens in there. All the foods done by machine etc. Then when they are 5 weeks old they are taken out and slaughtered. So would you rather that or live a few years hmmm hard choice

Well first of im not a chicken, Unlike a chicken i am both a centinat and a consuiose lifeform, I hold consepts suck as time, life, happyness, suffering. A chicken does not.

Since a chicken is not consuiose, it is not aware of being alive to start with, hence it is no real diffence from not being alive, A chiken is as aware of being alive as the computer/laptop your on, or the chair your sitting on.
So to the chicken it makes absoult not diffence, haveing no consept of life its incapable of comprihending anything in any consiose way, so sticking to reality without annthromorphising a chicken, as a chicken, it would make no diffence ether way "/

[Ezzie.]

Saying that animals have no concept of life isn't true imo, it seems a bit arrogant to say that as we ourselves are animals.

[discoball.]

Saying that animals have no concept of life isn't true imo, it seems a bit arrogant to say that as we ourselves are animals.
Yes but most of us are much more intelligent..

[Ezzie.]

Yes but every animal knows their place on this earth, so meh

[Mentor]

Saying that animals have no concept of life isn't true imo, it seems a bit arrogant to say that as we ourselves are animals.
Id say its more arrogent to clame that that my clame is untrue, considering mine is backed up by the compoilation of modern sciance and understanding, and is considered as FACT.
Maybe you should try disproving gravity why your at it..

[Ezzie.]

*sigh* Has anyone been a chicken recently? Science can only go so far into what the mind of an animal is like. until we can merge with them or somthing we wont have 100% evidence of it.

[Halting]

Sorry but that video, were the sheep get beheaded and still move around - thats just sick. People who have that for a job are mentally ill.

I like eating my meat. But to know whats on my plate was beheaded, and was a living innocent thing - thats not right.

Surely, if they are going to kill the sheep, they can do it in a better way? Beheading the sheep is the worst way to kill them and I'm certain if people who are eating those sheep knew they were beheaded days before they got surved that would probably through up.

[JonJon]

Yes, I know it's all horrible. But you can't help it. They all die anyway, and being a carnivorous species, we have to eat meat. We can't eat them after they're dead, because they mist have died of a disease. It's just the way of life; and no matter how much you try, it won't change. We all wish it would, but it won't. And I don't think it would be so bad if the people doing it pushed and kicked the sheep, dragged them around, and laughed while doing it. Very horrible.

[velvet]

Yes, I know it's all horrible. But you can't help it. They all die anyway, and being a carnivorous species, we have to eat meat. We can't eat them after they're dead, because they mist have died of a disease. It's just the way of life; and no matter how much you try, it won't change. We all wish it would, but it won't. And I don't think it would be so bad if the people doing it pushed and kicked the sheep, dragged them around, and laughed while doing it. Very horrible.

We arn't a carnivorous species, we're omnivorous.

[JonJon]

We arn't a carnivorous species, we're omnivorous.

Fine.... omnivorous..... half carnivorous.

[Mentor]

Sorry but that video, were the sheep get beheaded and still move around - thats just sick. People who have that for a job are mentally ill.

I like eating my meat. But to know whats on my plate was beheaded, and was a living innocent thing - thats not right.

Surely, if they are going to kill the sheep, they can do it in a better way? Beheading the sheep is the worst way to kill them and I'm certain if people who are eating those sheep knew they were beheaded days before they got surved that would probably through up.
Well in real life they do.. In Properganda movies realty doesnt quite hold up, properganda is just trying to infulence people in to doing something, via misinformation and brainwashing, hence the beheading.
Companys want to make money, killing a cow quickly and simply, is alot cheeper than decapiateing it, it also means the meat is not damaged and can actalty be soled, as well as the fact that the farmers dont end up under animal rights abuse charnges, They tend to only go for the real animal tortures, such as PETA..


*sigh* Has anyone been a chicken recently? Science can only go so far into what the mind of an animal is like. until we can merge with them or somthing we wont have 100% evidence of it.
I havent been you eather? does this mean i should assume you have no brain? How do i know your not just a brain in a tank somewhere?
More over how do you know they do?

But sciance can tell us a few things more than you seem to think. Under your logic sciance cant prove air exists becuse we have never been it.. the fact there are atoms and particales we can detect allow us to know threw studieing.

Guess whats the same with brains? yes for consuose thought a frontal lobe is needed? Chicken has no frontal lobe, chicken is unable to exisibt any behaviors assoited with coniose thought, chickens brain shows not activity realated to coniose thogh, So as far as is possible to tell, Chicken is not coniose. Yes we can push the boundry thuther, if we do, we now dont belive in gravity, air, wind or You for that matter, your fictonal under that logic i cant prove you exist, hell you can even prove you phiscaly exist, so we wana go strong sceptic your a bit ****ed if you wana try liveing in the real world "/

[Rashelly]

Actually, mentor is correct.
It has been proven.
Some animals just don't have the brain capacity...we as humans are animals, yes, but our brains have developed into very complex things, many species of animal have a very small, and simple brain.
They still feel pain, but in a totally different way.

[Mentor]

On a particaly related matter, one of the major factors contrabuting to the development of are brains and how we deveopted the capasity to become centiant beings is that We cooked meat :)
So meat is part of the reason we exist as we do today :D
its also quite useful in haveing stopeing us dieing out from starvaition quite a few times, and giveing us the nutraion we need to survive.. well needed due to haveing built up such a large and complex structure around are lives, we are no longer realy at the mersy of nature as much as we were before hence are able to survive without haveing the nutraion requred for obtimal health and fitness "/

[Ezzie.]

Could you try spelling correctly it took me ages to get through that "/
Onto topic yes some animals don't have the brain capacity to cope with what we can cope with but look at apesfor example, some of them have the brain capacity of a three/four year old. I'm sure there's smarter ones but that's the only one I've heard of

[Rashelly]

Could you try spelling correctly it took me ages to get through that "/
Onto topic yes some animals don't have the brain capacity to cope with what we can cope with but look at apesfor example, some of them have the brain capacity of a three/four year old. I'm sure there's smarter ones but that's the only one I've heard of
How many people eat apes though?

[Mentor]

Could you try spelling correctly it took me ages to get through that "/
Onto topic yes some animals don't have the brain capacity to cope with what we can cope with but look at apesfor example, some of them have the brain capacity of a three/four year old. I'm sure there's smarter ones but that's the only one I've heard of
... well consdiering that a 3 or 4 year old's brain has the same capasity as a 10 year olds, 20 year olds, 40 year olds, and pretty much everyone elses. I realy dont think youve been doing your reaserch, The brain is usealy fully formed by the age of a few months, All that it lacks is the exsperinace and useage needed to form cohirnt judgments or learn the sets or rules needed to govern every day life "/ The brains capasity is still the same, in computer turns i belive its about 3.6 terrabyets "/

[Ezzie.]

You'd be surprised ;l in other countries they eat alot of them indonesia? i think not sure

[Rashelly]

I mean in "civilised society" - whatever that means.
You'd never find them in the west.

[Ezzie.]

Yes but you see where I'm getting at? Althought the brain develops at a young age it hasn't learnt of new things if that makes sence

[iluvben]

I'm a carnivor I don't believe in killing the poor defenceless plants.

[Mentor]

You'd be surprised ;l in other countries they eat alot of them indonesia? i think not sure
Ape meat is still tecnical illgal "/ and very exspencive so isnt exsactly eaten commonly, The only reason its illgal is that Apes are rair and at risk of exstinction.. kep in mind

[Ezzie.]

Yes but i was watching a documentary about it (was incredible bored "/)
I believe that all the animals are quintesentially us but in lower evolved forms? If we mass cull them it's not going to help their evolution grow.

[Mentor]

Yes but i was watching a documentary about it (was incredible bored "/)
I believe that all the animals are quintesentially us but in lower evolved forms? If we mass cull them it's not going to help their evolution grow.
Well actaly that would be more natrual than trying to maintain there populations, Nature dictates the animal best suted to survive survives and the ones not susted to surviveing dont. If apes are not able to adapt in a way that will perlong there survival, Then there subspecies wil die out, And technicalky we are a force of eviltion here to, since, the apes better adpated to avoideing and staying safe from hunters survive, while the less adapated die, the better adapted survive, there children are then also better adpated, Hey presto evilotion in the works :)

Plus i think there more an early offshoot of a much earlier form of ape, as opposed to being a few stadges down on are own eviltionary ladder.

Althogh since in this context where not talking about apes in terms of meat, since its not something your likely to come by in most 1st world contarys, i think this offshot of topic is kinda irrlevnet to the matter.

[Ezzie.]

Yeah is fairly irrelevant but I just wanted to show a point. I know all about Darwin's survival of the fittest theory but to mass cull seems odd... I think the world is overpopulated as it is.. I doubt the earth was designed to hold as many humans as we have.

[JonJon]

Ape meat is still tecnical illgal "/ and very exspencive so isnt exsactly eaten commonly, The only reason its illgal is that Apes are rair and at risk of exstinction.. kep in mind

I thought also because they are 'intelligent creatures' like dolphins.

[FlyingJesus]

Yes but i was watching a documentary about it (was incredible bored "/)
I believe that all the animals are quintesentially us but in lower evolved forms? If we mass cull them it's not going to help their evolution grow.

Actually, evolution is sparked by a change of some sort, or a risk that endures through generations. If we start killing and eating a load of animals, they eventually become stronger, harder to kill, more evolved. That's beside the point however. We as a dominant species aren't looking to help other species evolve - we want to remain the overlords of Earth after all.

Let's recap the discussion so far:

* We've established that animals aren't developed enough to register pain properly, and that they only react as instinct to avoid danger.

* We've heard proof that plants feel the exact kind of pain as primitive animals, ruling out the idea that vegetarianism is kinder than eating meat.

* Humans killing for food is natural, and due to our evolved state, the ways in which we do so is also natural.

* It's been said by a few now that it's only the sentient species on the planet that register pain properly - humans and dolphins being thus far the only sentient species as we know it (and who eats dolphin?).

* Most importantly, the ideology of vegetarianism has been reduced to shi.. sugar.

[BL!NKEY]

Let's recap the discussion so far:

* We've established that animals aren't developed enough to register pain properly, and that they only react as instinct to avoid danger.


They just talked about how apes and dolphans can register pain. Also humans are considered animals but I know you are not talking about them. And Most animals feel pain. Have you ever seen a dog sad because it is sick or hurt. Dogs even get sad when they are lonly.


* We've heard proof that plants feel the exact kind of pain as primitive animals, ruling out the idea that vegetarianism is kinder than eating meat.



Where did this come from. Find me some information saying that plants feel the exact kind of pain as primitive animals. You are saying that plants without brains can feel pain as much as regular animals?


* Humans killing for food is natural, and due to our evolved state, the ways in which we do so is also natural.

I agree with this because it is natural to kill other beings to eat.


* It's been said by a few now that it's only the sentient species on the planet that register pain properly - humans and dolphins being thus far the only sentient species as we know it (and who eats dolphin?).



What about when like wolves get caught in traps? They start to wimper and obviously feel pain. When most animals are hurt like a body part is cut they act differently


* Most importantly, the ideology of vegetarianism has been reduced to shi.. sugar.

Why are thousands of people vegetarianisms if there is no reason to be?




Now I dont want to seem like I think I know everything abuot this because I dont.

Here is a list of some of the reasons people are vegies for those of you who dont understand why people would give up the best tasting thing on earth...


The HEALTH reason

Medical studies prove that a vegetarian diet is easier to digest, provides a wider range of nutrients and imposes fewer burdens and impurities on the body. Vegetarians are less susceptible to all the major diseases that afflict contemporary humanity, and thus live longer, healthier, more productive lives. They have fewer physical complaints, less frequent visits to the doctor, fewer dental problems and smaller medical bills. Their immune system is stronger, their bodies are purer, more refined and skin more beautiful.

Those who eat flesh are far more likely to contract cancer than those following a vegetarian diet are.

Meat-eaters ingest excessive amounts of cholesterol, making them dangerously susceptible to heart attacks.

Many scientific studies have concluded that eating meat can seriously damage your health.

The ECOLOGICAL reason

Planet earth is suffering. In large measure, the escalating loss of species, destruction of ancient rain forests to create pasturelands for livestock, loss of topsoils and the consequent increase of water impurities and air pollution have all been traced to the single fact of meat in the human diet. No single decision that we can make as individuals or as a race can have such a dramatic effect on the improvement of our planetary ecology as the decision to not eat meat. Many seeking to save the planet for future generations have made this decision for this reason and this reason alone.

The Economic reason

The simple fact is that to produce 1 lb of meat, it requires over 16 lbs of grain and many gallons of water. Millions of animals are breed for meat production, if they were not breed and the vegetation was used to feed people. There would be no poverty in the World.

[fσяgινєи]

ive been a vegetarian for 14 years. My whole life. GAH!

[Callum.]

What's everyones views on eating meat? I personally don't really like the taste of meat anymore, used to eat it constantly when i was a lil kid but now not much..

Few reasons dont eat meat nomore:
. taste of it's pretty cack
. How they kill them is just dang! http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5084913749215112840&pl=true for example "/

What's everyones views? Post maturely please, and no flaming from either sides ^^

Thanks for the video.

:redface_b

Made me feel sick.

[velvet]

Acctually Blinkey,
Most of that information only applys to red meat, (Beef, steak ect)

[Joe.]

i like quite alot of meat , but used to be a vegi

[FlyingJesus]

They just talked about how apes and dolphans can register pain. Also humans are considered animals but I know you are not talking about them. And Most animals feel pain. Have you ever seen a dog sad because it is sick or hurt. Dogs even get sad when they are lonly.

The cause of pain is a nerve being triggered, and the brain receiving distress signals from it that the body is in danger. It's natural for all forms of life to cry out and react (often violently) in a bid to try to get the thing that's damaging them away from the body. If they can't (because they're ill or injured already) then their primary instinct is to seek help from outside, in the case of domestic animals like dogs as you mentioned they may well seek human intervention by whimpering or acting overly pathetic to make sure that it's known that something's wrong.


Where did this come from. Find me some information saying that plants feel the exact kind of pain as primitive animals. You are saying that plants without brains can feel pain as much as regular animals?

Why would they not? Someone (I think Mentor) said previously about the lack of a frontal lobe in most animals, so their brains, despite being more advanced than the individual cell nuclei of plants, still cannot feel pain properly, and as such are only as advanced in that field as plants.


What about when like wolves get caught in traps? They start to wimper and obviously feel pain. When most animals are hurt like a body part is cut they act differently

Like I said above, animals have an instinct to find help when they cannot help themselves (seeing as the most basic instinct of all is to stay alive no matter what the cost). "Crying" in pain is a way of getting attention to the body.

[Mentor]

Yeah is fairly irrelevant but I just wanted to show a point. I know all about Darwin's survival of the fittest theory but to mass cull seems odd... I think the world is overpopulated as it is.. I doubt the earth was designed to hold as many humans as we have.
Earth wasnt designed at all, and nature is a very strong force, If we cannot get enogh food to maintain ourselfs we die, Food replenishes. Simple as that "/ just like with every other animal, millions of species have lived and died "/


I thought also because they are 'intelligent creatures' like dolphins.
There both pretty stupid animals, Octopus is supposedly the smartest next to humans, being able to use advanced levels of commication, team work, and utails serfisticated tactics in getting its prey.

Everyone still seems to eat them just fine, and there WAY smarter than any ape...


They just talked about how apes and dolphans can register pain. Also humans are considered animals but I know you are not talking about them. And Most animals feel pain. Have you ever seen a dog sad because it is sick or hurt. Dogs even get sad when they are lonly.
Humans are a centiant animal. Dogs aint. Dogs feel pain, Its a warning mechinism, It keeps them alive, quite helpful. BUT they dont consously perseave it or understand it in the way humans do, hence a human idea of feeling pain is incorrect, The pain they feel is more likenable to the built in reactions, touch something hot your hand will recial in reaction before you perseave that pain


Where did this come from. Find me some information saying that plants feel the exact kind of pain as primitive animals. You are saying that plants without brains can feel pain as much as regular animals?
I think it came from an earler debate, since i dont rember haveing got here yet,
Perseption of pain is unique to humans first, a rock, a blade of grass, and a cat all feel perseave pain in the same way.. not at all.
Now the plants issue comes from the vegiran aurgument of not killing a liveing thing.
Plants are a liveing thing. Its often aurgued that becuse they dont have brains / central nervous systems, they then dont count.
But brains dont mean everything, Plants have exibited abiltys ti react to pain, count (venus fly trap does this so as not to close on something that isnt prey)
If a plant can count its smarter than most animals now aint it, which kinda puts a flaw in that theary, since then vegiratenans are just eating something even more defenceless than an animal, contradicting a large amount of pro veg aruguments


What about when like wolves get caught in traps? They start to wimper and obviously feel pain. When most animals are hurt like a body part is cut they act differently
i explained earlyer.

And for the record DOLPHINS ARE NOT CENTAINT. youve been watching/reading to much hitch hykers guide to the galexy, There stupid, there one of the smarter animals but not the smartest, octupus is way smarter, dolphins still are NOT self aware hence not centiant... Plus the clame is they are the only other animal that have sex for plesure as well as reproduction (disproven) not anything to do with understanding of pain

to the reasons....


False - veigraian diet is unhealthy and there are risks with many of the alternives, diets with alot of soibeens have been linked to haveing a higher risk of miscarranges for exsample.

False - Humans stomachs are deveoped as omnivours, we have problems digesting vegitation, since are smoach asids and enzimes are simply not capable of breaking down a large majorty of vegitaion. You cant eat leaves you cant eat grass, theres very little you can properly digest, even common things like vegiratables are only partaly digestested, Where not built for it..

Was disproven, soibeens a common altervive have also been linked to canser
Vegitran life expecancys are also several years shorter than an equivlent omnovours...

Meat = more energy, if you do more, it gets used as it should, we just have to find alternatives since being mauld by bunnies and haveing to hunt, kill and prepear are own meals are no longer required...

All been discredited

Sorry to burst your bubble but humans aint Dietys so we still are part of the echosystem..

I think theres a major misconspetion on how nature works here?

Econicaly we have sustainable meat supplys, the same cant be said of vegiratn food stuffs, whcih would be unstainable if the whole populus swiched.

News flash, Humans Dont Graze, We cannot eat grass, Hence Animlas eating grass arnt takeing away are food... this rates highly on the stupidty charts..

[FlyingJesus]

There both pretty stupid animals, Octopus is supposedly the smartest next to humans, being able to use advanced levels of commication, team work, and utails serfisticated tactics in getting its prey.

Everyone still seems to eat them just fine, and there WAY smarter than any ape...

A good point, we eat animals regardless of how advanced they may appear to be, and to debate an offcut of that, the only reason we don't eat humans is our culture. There are many tribes who are cannibalistic, and we see them as barbaric, but really what's wrong with eating humans? We have the same bodily qualities in many ways as pigs, so theoretically we'd taste like pork (which happens to be my favourite meat). I'm not saying we should go around killing and eating each other, but when we die, wouldn't it be far less wasteful if any parts that can't be held for transplants (ie: the fats and muscles - the edible bits) were stocked for consumption? You may not like the idea of eating someone you know, but surely in many ways it's more respectful to their memory that they become part of a loved one rather than becoming ashes and dust scattered around a field, or a decomposing mess in a box? This is completely off the topic of vegetarianism, but an issue which I feel needs to be reconsidered in a world where waste is a massive problem.

[Mentor]

Althogh it should be mentioned canibalism tends to be quite unheathy, there are quite a few illness that are often related to consumption of other humans (many very simlar to made cow desises, which was caused by cows being fed other cows another form of canibalism)
Plus Humans being centiant killing us for food would cause problems and is illgal (suprise suprise), althogh in certain cituations if there isnt the choise, survival does take president over such moral values anyway "/
For tha main part thogh eating humans is realy a waste of the human body, which would be far more useful for its organs, blood and limbs which would server far better in medical use, whether for reaserch or donations. If i die i would want what ever of me is useable to be used to help others seeing as i no longer needed it, Even if that for simply for eating "/

[:dallsgreen]

I like meat, my family is pretty big on barbeques. I say why not eat animals? its the foodchain, we just happen to be higher up.

[Ezzie.]

This is turning out to be quite a good discussion. And as mentor said, Octupusses are incredibley intelligent, seen on a program how they can actually kill humans if you're not wearing diving equipment. I believe in the food chain and killing animals to survive is survival of the fittest obviously. There's actually alternatives to eating meat, but they taste like meat? Quorn or whatever tastes exactly like chicken/beef, what ever. But has more nutrients in (not saying meat doesn't have nutrience) Also why would the vegetarian charities lie about their dietry information, false information leads to procecutions for leading the reader astray so I highly doubt they were lieing "/


Edit:


If Mother nature decides to further evolve a certain species then what would happen if they became more evolved/intelligent than us? (planet of the apes kind of >_>)

[Flap]

I used to be a vegetarian, But now i'm not ;]

[Ezzie.]

y did u deicde not to be flap?

[FlyingJesus]

y did u deicde not to be flap?

Women can't pass up a good helping of meat.

[Flap]

Well I was on a plane to america, and they didnt have any veggie meals, so I have a meat one, and I decided I liked it again..

Either I ate it or I starved ;p
I was a vegetarian for a year though..

[iluvben]

Well I was on a plane to america, and they didnt have any veggie meals, so I have a meat one, and I decided I liked it again..

Either I ate it or I starved ;p
I was a vegetarian for a year though..
In other words you came to your sences and stopped killing the poor plants.

[HellyBelly]

In other words you came to your sences and stopped killing the poor plants.

Lmao, you are nuts.

[iluvben]

Helen babe save the plants with me , PETA or what not eat your heart out , I'm hear to stop your dirty organisation.

[HellyBelly]

Helen babe save the plants with me , PETA or what not eat your heart out , I'm hear to stop your dirty organisation.

lmao, ok.
I shall join your little krew.

[iluvben]

its an honour to have you in the krew missus

[Mentor]

This is turning out to be quite a good discussion. And as mentor said, Octupusses are incredibley intelligent, seen on a program how they can actually kill humans if you're not wearing diving equipment.
Consdiering many of them are also highly poisonus, i wouldnt say its nessary the intelangence giveing the advaage there, since snakes who deffinlty aint that smart seem to do all right out of that part as well "/


I believe in the food chain and killing animals to survive is survival of the fittest obviously. There's actually alternatives to eating meat, but they taste like meat? Quorn or whatever tastes exactly like chicken/beef, what ever. But has more nutrients in (not saying meat doesn't have nutrience)
..
Quorn doesnt taste like any meat ive ever tasted, More people are alergic to it than penuts and its defintly not got more nutraition? No where near.
The protines gained from real meat are of a massivly higher qualty than the ones gained from substitus such as quorn, meat is far more nutrisious in where meat would be exspected to be. ill explain in answer to the second part.


Also why would the vegetarian charities lie about their dietry information, false information leads to procecutions for leading the reader astray so I highly doubt they were lieing "/
Its not actaly lieing, Its misuse of facts, they provide the positive then ignore the negative, they misinform on sertain parts and present other parts as if they were fact, yet will never actaly make the clame.

A good exsample of this is the davinci code, he provieds a few facts at the start then every seems to think the whole things fact.
Althogh the misinfomation provided here is usealy done to a far better exsent.

Take Quawn for exsample. They say its more nutrusios than meat?
The compason is flawed thogh.
Meat has certain nutrition eliments and not others, hence why we requre both, we are omnivours after all.
Quawn on the other hand, provides certain nutraints Meat would not, yet the ones it provides that are simlar to meat in relaty are far less nutrisos and useful for the body.
So Over all its more nutrisious. But its doesnt provide what meat does as well. Its simply the spin they put on it to make it sound like it does.
They havent lied, theyve just misinformed, They never said it, they allowed others to assume it, hence getting them free of blame :). Same reason many music players advertise haveing DRM on them as a bonus. Its fliping spyware, its something you DONT want. But with spin and neglecting to fill people in on the facts, it sounds good, and they never made the clame, they just never exsplained properly "/



[B][COLOR=#000000]If Mother nature decides to further evolve a certain species then what would happen if they became more evolved/intelligent than us? (planet of the apes kind of >_>)
Well where also evolving, and it isnt an over night things, it will take Millions upon millions of years, Planet of the apes was a little stupid since it failed to actaly give the apes any evilotonary advantage, and an ape with a human brain still wouldnt be doing to good for itself, Thumbs to tend to come in handy :D
but still it would be a very slow proccess not something that would spring up over night, so humans would always have the advantage from the headstart and be able to follow the devopment up to the stadge we are and thuther, but more accurty were since we are unlikly to remain static ourselves "/

[FlyingJesus]

Eamonn her dirty organisation has nothing to do with plants ;)

[iluvben]

I meant I'm out to stop PETA cuz its all saving animals but no they dont care about the plants death to them.

[FlyingJesus]

Join PETOP - People for the Ethical Treatment Of Plants!

[iluvben]

Anti-PETA krew 4lyf.

[FlyingJesus]

Save a tree, eat a beaver.

[iluvben]

Oooo nice catchphrase girlfriend.

[clazzles]

Save a tree, eat a beaver.
lmao at your sig

[FlyingJesus]

I feel sorry for lettuce :[

[Ezzie.]

Please don't spam this topic "/ it's for discussing not spamming...

To mentor
yes apes would be pretty *****ed still if they had our intellectual capacity, no opposable thumbs :( no thumb wars </3 lol :D
psh but ive seen a few sites "twisting facts" But i've actually seen a site going blade blah IS good for you etc

[Mentor]

Please don't spam this topic "/ it's for discussing not spamming...

To mentor
yes apes would be pretty *****ed still if they had our intellectual capacity, no opposable thumbs :( no thumb wars </3 lol :D
psh but ive seen a few sites "twisting facts" But i've actually seen a site going blade blah IS good for you etc
Misrepresntaion of facts isnt often obvios. For exsample MAny will provide facts, then do quotes of what people have then said "opinions"
but since being put with facts readers will often be confused then take them as facts, while in truth the unfounded opinions of people whom are usealy simpahetic to the cause "/
its properganda as opposed to fact "/

[Ezzie.]

basically everything is political bull ;)