[Caution] Disturbing Thread

[Nixt]

I recently began to read the book by Jessica Williams "50 Facts That Should Change the World" and alot of the things in it peturbed me...
It was when I read one chapter however that I felt really sick, and even though I know posting on here will not help the situation these people are in, I think it would be interesting to see what people have to say about this sort of thing that goes on around us, without us really knowing.
And so I quote: "He had a pair of pliers in his hand. He kept asking where the mobile was. I told him I had not seen it. He then told me to bring my thumb forward. He got hold of my thumb and placed it between the pliers. He pressed it hard and crushed my thumb. I do not know what happened next."
150 countries in this world [That's about two thirds] use torture, like the barbaric act described above. The thing that makes it worse, is at the time that torture took place, that person was nine years of age.
Now the question one is faced with, is "is this humane" well of course it is not... But is there ever a valid reason to inflict such pain on someone, especially someone so young?

[Nixt]

I would like to add also, before anyone asks me "How is that going to help anyone" I do not expect it to, I just wanted to see what people thought of it...

[Confused]

No there's no reason, there's just some sick people in this world that get a kick out of it.

[Billabong]

:( That poor kid had done nothing wrong. If he had seen the mobile he would of said obviously

[Nixt]

Nine years old...

[Foks]

Please explain how that is in any way Humane?
Or justified?

And two wrongs Never make a right.

[Nixt]

I never said it was Humane... It never will be

[Honesty]

Ewww :l. Thats just wrong

[Nixt]

Yeah but then, is it right if the threat of a terrorist attack is imminent, just say thousands would die...

[RedStratocas]

Recently in the U.S. we had a huge arguement on torture. On whether it is okay to use it in desperate situations. The thing people dont relize is that IT DOESNT WORK. Everyone thinks of movies when they think of torture, and how eventually the person being tortured gives in. That doesnt happen in real life. They're dedicated when it comes to not giving away information.

And the cruelty part is something to be delt with too.

[ilovejordan]

thanks i feel sick now

[FlyingJesus]

is there ever a valid reason to inflict such pain on someone

To get your own way.

Not saying it's a "just" or "humane" reason, but it's a reason.

[Ostinato]

I think it is out of order to do it to a child as young as 9 defintely.

I wouldn't really say I support the form of torture full stop, however, then I am faced with the situation of perhaps a terrorist who holds information which could be prevented to save 1000's, if not 10 000's of lives, which makes me think well perhaps it is morally justified... :rolleyes: :s

[louder]

I don't beleive in violence, Although I have been in alot of fights etc in school, I don't bring them on, I stay away from them as much as possible, just people stir because the don't like me 'cuz I have long hair.. Wrong I know. But yeah. Voilence is wrong.

[RedStratocas]

I think it is out of order to do it to a child as young as 9 defintely.

I wouldn't really say I support the form of torture full stop, however, then I am faced with the situation of perhaps a terrorist who holds information which could be prevented to save 1000's, if not 10 000's of lives, which makes me think well perhaps it is morally justified... :rolleyes: :s

No, that does not work. You can NEVER EVER EVER capture a terrorist, and torture him into giving you information. It has NEVER worked, and NEVER will work. They are always dedicated into keeping information to them. Pluck their eyes out, they wont talk. Not to mention the Terrorists in A.Q. aren't only willing to die, theyre happy to die. You can't scare them with anything, not even pain.

[Mentor]

Recently in the U.S. we had a huge arguement on torture. On whether it is okay to use it in desperate situations. The thing people dont relize is that IT DOESNT WORK. Everyone thinks of movies when they think of torture, and how eventually the person being tortured gives in. That doesnt happen in real life. They're dedicated when it comes to not giving away information.

And the cruelty part is something to be delt with too.
Urmm i kinda think you have the wrong end of the stick here "/
Under torture anyone will tell you ANYTHING, they will admit to ANYTHING.
Thats the reason it fails, since people end up agreeing to things that arnt true, They will admit to doing things they have not done. Thats why torture doesnt work.
Terrorists aint trained indervidals they would not withstand torture, the same is true of the greate majorty of the entire planet "/
Its you whos getting confused with the movies here "/

[RedStratocas]

Urmm i kinda think you have the wrong end of the stick here "/
Under torture anyone will tell you ANYTHING, they will admit to ANYTHING.
Thats the reason it fails, since people end up agreeing to things that arnt true, They will admit to doing things they have not done. Thats why torture doesnt work.
Terrorists aint trained indervidals they would not withstand torture, the same is true of the greate majorty of the entire planet "/
Its you whos getting confused with the movies here "/

Im talking about people who actually do have information. If they wont tell you by their own will, they will NEVER tell you.

[Mentor]

Im talking about people who actually do have information. If they wont tell you by their own will, they will NEVER tell you.
Terrorists are not highly trained, a quick death ok, Torture thogh is not something they will stand by.
For exsample Threw use of torture of a captured member of alcieda the data of 9/11 was secured months before it occured, hence the whole issuse about why the Goverment failed act upon it or do somthing.
Also brings back the issuse of how the US goverment seems to think its not accountable for torture as long as it takes place outside the contary/is not done by american citizens "/

The problem remains a terrorist is just as likely to lie as to tell the truth "/ althogh conventanal interview methods can easly be empolyed to work this out "/

[Nick.]

Ewwwww.. that's sick. People that do such things should die and go to hell :[

xx

[RedStratocas]

Terrorists are not highly trained, a quick death ok, Torture thogh is not something they will stand by.
For exsample Threw use of torture of a captured member of alcieda the data of 9/11 was secured months before it occured, hence the whole issuse about why the Goverment failed act upon it or do somthing.
Also brings back the issuse of how the US goverment seems to think its not accountable for torture as long as it takes place outside the contary/is not done by american citizens "/

The problem remains a terrorist is just as likely to lie as to tell the truth "/ althogh conventanal interview methods can easly be empolyed to work this out "/

They won't give information. The U.S. did have information on 9/11 but it wasent from someone in Al-Quida.

[Mentor]

They won't give information. The U.S. did have information on 9/11 but it wasent from someone in Al-Quida.
They had information from a few sorces, 1 was the one i mentioned. The war on terror is a falisy, Al-qyuda is not an organised hi tech group, its not full of eliete soldures, its ranks are simply a few brainwashed muslims whom think they are serveing there religion by killing themselves for what the belive is the good of there people "/
Brainwashed, willing to die. Torture would be quickly successful. Hence why the information on key members where abouts is know by the minimum number of people possible to stop them being comprised "/

[RedStratocas]

They had information from a few sorces, 1 was the one i mentioned. The war on terror is a falisy, Al-qyuda is not an organised hi tech group, its not full of eliete soldures, its ranks are simply a few brainwashed muslims whom think they are serveing there religion by killing themselves for what the belive is the good of there people "/
Brainwashed, willing to die. Torture would be quickly successful. Hence why the information on key members where abouts is know by the minimum number of people possible to stop them being comprised "/

I would have to know this first hand, there is no proof of arguing this either way since there has only been word-of-mouth news of torture in the middle east. And Gitmo, but that was different.

[Mentor]

I would have to know this first hand, there is no proof of arguing this either way since there has only been word-of-mouth news of torture in the middle east. And Gitmo, but that was different.
Guantanamo isnt where they torture people, for one its a media hotspot the world all likes to stop and focuse one one thing while in realty it goes on behind there backs. Saldi ariabia is one of the common places the US is known to have tortured people for evidance "/

[RedStratocas]

Guantanamo isnt where they torture people, for one its a media hotspot the world all likes to stop and focuse one one thing while in realty it goes on behind there backs. Saldi ariabia is one of the common places the US is known to have tortured people for evidance "/

Im talking about the prisoner scandal. It was there if Im not mistaken.

[Nixt]

Guantanamo isnt where they torture people, "/
True, when claims of the like were made; Bush reiterated his position on how he finds the practice of torture unacceptable, yet, the torture they suffer from there is not direct, I quote once again from 50 Facts That Should Change The World, about Guantanamo:
"More than 600 prisoners were being held without trial, children as young as thirteen among them. Twenty-one detainees were said to have attempted suicide and many more were suffering from depression."
Admittedly, this is not torture as such; but in what way is it humane?

[Mentor]

True, when claims of the like were made; Bush reiterated his position on how he finds the practice of torture unacceptable, yet, the torture they suffer from there is not direct, I quote once again from 50 Facts That Should Change The World, about Guantanamo:
"More than 600 prisoners were being held without trial, children as young as thirteen among them. Twenty-one detainees were said to have attempted suicide and many more were suffering from depression."
Admittedly, this is not torture as such; but in what way is it humane?
well first off im again quantomo bay since its holding people without charge, which is illgal in itself.
BUT this is compleaty irrlivent to the issue of torture "/

[Nixt]

But is it, if you read the quote from the book essentially what you are looking at is some form of psychological torture...

[FlyingJesus]

Guantanomo Bay doesn't need to have trialed prisoners, and they can use torture "legally", seeing as there are no laws there. It's in an area not controlled legally by anyone, which is why it's so useful as a prison for dangerous people.

[Demynx]

That cant be humane. That is sick.

[Nixt]

they can use torture "legally", seeing as there are no laws there.
Nevertheless what they do is far from Humane, Ok it is not necessarily torture, it is what is know as Stress and Duress:
"How would you describe your mental health?"

"I have given up. I am hopeless. I don't care about anything any more."

That is just a snip of an interview with a Guantanamo detainee. What they do there is not actually torture, it is more causing the most severe psychological stress possible, which is very similar to the type of torture used by Developed Intelligence services during interrogation. It is seen as more humane.

[Mentor]

Nevertheless what they do is far from Humane, Ok it is not necessarily torture, it is what is know as Stress and Duress:
"How would you describe your mental health?"

"I have given up. I am hopeless. I don't care about anything any more."

That is just a snip of an interview with a Guantanamo detainee. What they do there is not actually torture, it is more causing the most severe psychological stress possible, which is very similar to the type of torture used by Developed Intelligence services during interrogation. It is seen as more humane.

1) It can be a inhumain as you like, that wont make it torture, to be touture something has to tick a number of box's what your describing doesnt. Hence its NOT torture, how ever inhumain it may be.

2) the quotes not much diffent from what youd get from the average emo "/

[Pawf]

I'm sure that some governor of the US signed something to say that things such as sleep deprivation and use of phobias were to be tolerated. Some may perceive this as toture and some may not.

And...

the quotes not much diffent from what youd get from the average emo "/ Lmao :D

[Halting]

I golt told in R.S/R.E the other day about something fimiliar. Two girls (both aged 8) tortured for being found guilty for murdering an adult.

We were talking about prisoners of conscience at the time. We have and are destroying the world we live in. Every animal apart from us has never damaged our world, so why do we?

[Mentor]

We were talking about prisoners of conscience at the time. We have and are destroying the world we live in. Every animal apart from us has never damaged our world, so why do we?
We dont, its compleaty inaccurte to belive we do. We dont damage are world, damagaing a world is a pretty diffuclt thing to do, and not realy possible short of disintergarting the whole thing "/

[Halting]

Not nessacarily are we damaging the world, but we our killing ourselves and our animals/species.

If you watch the news:-
"a man has been brutantly stabbed"
"troops in iraq..."
"tony blair is facing another question of global warming..."

The answer to this is, tbh - speech.
Sounds strange, let me explain my opinion.

No other animals speaks as far as we know. Other animals make odd/weird sounds to communicate and express their feelings, but no animal on this earth knows they are living, for them death is not different to life, exlcluding Humans.

Without speech, we wouldn't have the technology we have today - because we wouldn't pass on our knowledge.

Humans are the only animals, that I'm aware of which kill each other. Do you hear on the news about a bird killing another bird? Some animals will do it because thats natrual for them, but theres no need for a human to kill another human.

As humans we are the only animals which has developed. Think of all the things we have developed. Global Warming. Without us, it most probably to our knowledge wouldn't have no concern to the other animals.

The death sentence is killing other humans for doing things which perhaps they shouldn't have. They learnt how to do these things because of 'speech'. We have passed our knowledge on from one to another usually via school, college or university.

You might not quite understand what I'm trying to get at hear, but if you look at areas of our world, it makes you feel sick. The world as we know it is quite frankly, a dump - apart from a few places.

[FlyingJesus]

Many animals kill each other, some are even cannibalistic.

[Halting]

Some animals will do it because thats natrual for them

Did you read all of what I said?
I said that. Although there is no reason for human to kill human. Aaprt from what people might see for the 'fun' of it.

[FlyingJesus]

Why is fun not a reason? It's all to do with the morals that we invented and have been brought up on.

[Pawf]

Halting, you have a point. But what you don't realise is that the chances that we evolve to do these things are too slim to happen, well, by chance. There is a reason we have evolved and are doing what we do. Whether it is a superior being or not is a different debate. But for now remember that there is likely to be a reason we have evolved and others haven't.

[Nixt]

1)

2) the quotes not much diffent from what youd get from the average emo "/

O_o It came from the BBC news website...

[Pawf]

Haha, the BBC are emos!

[Mentor]

O_o It came from the BBC news website...
It could have come in a message from asma bin larden or in a statment form george bush? what differnce does it make?
You keep chalaneging my comments with things that arnt even remotly related? its like if someone said it looks like its going to rain today, Disagreeing becuse you belive in aliens... "/
None of your replys make any diffent to the stamenet, There just anotehr compleaty seperate statement "/
another exsample its like saying the grass is green, then you saying but the sky is blue.
The sky being blue doesnt change a thing about the grass, exsactly like the quotes sorce not changeing a thing about how the quote sounds...

[FlyingJesus]

It could have come in a message from asma bin larden or in a statment form george bush? what differnce does it make?
You keep chalaneging my comments with things that arnt even remotly related? its like if someone said it looks like its going to rain today, Disagreeing becuse you belive in aliens... "/
None of your replys make any diffent to the stamenet, There just anotehr compleaty seperate statement "/
another exsample its like saying the grass is green, then you saying but the sky is blue.
The sky being blue doesnt change a thing about the grass, exsactly like the quotes sorce not changeing a thing about how the quote sounds...

Yeah but my phone's ringing.

[Nixt]

It could have come in a message from asma bin larden or in a statment form george bush? what differnce does it make?
You keep chalaneging my comments with things that arnt even remotly related? its like if someone said it looks like its going to rain today, Disagreeing becuse you belive in aliens... "/
None of your replys make any diffent to the stamenet, There just anotehr compleaty seperate statement "/
another exsample its like saying the grass is green, then you saying but the sky is blue.
The sky being blue doesnt change a thing about the grass, exsactly like the quotes sorce not changeing a thing about how the quote sounds...
If I knew what the hell you were on about, I might have replied differently :)