Homosexuality in the eyes of God

[asher_]

Homosexuality... Is it a sin?


Mentioned in the Bible are two cities 'Sodom' and Gommorah' both of which were notorious for the large amount of homosexual men; God destroyed these cities to rid the sin from them.

''Just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities around them, since they in the same way as these indulged in gross immorality and went after strange flesh, are exhibited as an example, in undergoing the punishment of eternal fire."

Levicus also goes on to say "You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination." Lev 20:13 "If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death."

1 Cor 6:9 "Or do you not know that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals"

So, is homosexuality abomination against the Lord?

DISCUSS

[DMB-Hosting]

Well i guess so because the initial plan is to create humans to reproduce and;

man + man = No Baby
Man + Women = Baby

[Biseinen]

God sucks.

Didn't they teach you that in church?

[Wayne]

Well i guess so because the initial plan is to create humans to reproduce and;

man + man = No Baby
Man + Women = Baby

I agree with this aswell. Men and women are meant to reproduce, and that's how more lives are begun.

[Biseinen]

I agree with this aswell. Men and women are meant to reproduce, and that's how more lives are begun.

Hence why the ratio for the chinese to the rest of the world is like 20:1 Lmao.

[brandon]

Probably, whether people believe in god is another question.

[Mentor]

Well lets look at 2 main points.

One, No god, No such thing as sin.

Two: Both quotes are from the old testiment, This also provides advice on:
Selling your dauger as a slave

Also its just as much as a sin to miss your weekly animal sacrivice if where still useing the old testiment "/

[dj-viper]

I agree God made us to produce more kids, not to make out with the oposite sex,

[Mentor]

I agree God made us to produce more kids, not to make out with the oposite sex,
God didnt make us, And actaly the bible wants you to abstain more than anything "/

[benjirofl]

Mm.

I wanna be Buddhist, It doesn't see homosexuals as wrong [;

I think christians should do the same, as long as someone is happy ;l ?

[asher_]

In terms of what the Bible has to say, there is no evidence suggestion being Gay is a sin, however the act of any homosexual act is abomination against God.

[Nixt]

God is homosexual >.>
I think that times are changing, and with that change religions have to make slight changes.
There are homosexuals now, there always will be... GET OVER IT GOD! If he didn't like it [that is if he is true] then he would never of allowed it to have happened in the first place!



I wanna be Buddhist
I am Buddhist :D

[asher_]

The only sin that is unforgivable is not accepting or believing in God.

* Mark 3:29
''But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation''

[HUGECOOL]

The only sin that is unforgivable is not accepting or believing in God.

* Mark 3:29
''But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation''
So, what happened to the all forgiving God? "/

Anyway, there are so many illogical things in the bible that people (mainstream) are too blind to see, but it's considered immoral to even question the existance of God. I have not problem with people and their religion. I do, however, have a problem with people forcing religion onto others. No one has to be taught interpretations of God because no one owns the copyright to what God means.

[WHANGFACE]

Well if you do believe in God, and your gay/lesbian, think, if its a sin why would he let people be it? If you don't believe in god, well do whatever ;D

[Craig]

Well if you do believe in God, and your gay/lesbian, think, if its a sin why would he let people be it? If you don't believe in god, well do whatever ;D

How exactly does he 'let' them do it?

[asher_]

I'm a bi-sexual male myself and religious to a certain extent; I don't believe the entirety of whats wrote down in the bible, but certain bits I do. To clarify again, it doesn't mention anything about homosexuality being a sin in itself but simply sex between two partners of the same sex being an abominaton.

[Dirgeofcerberus]

Hmm, well I suppose it might be a sin according to the bible.
But then again, churches now do marriage for gay couples, so you could say that the priest or whoever does the marriage could be commiting a sin as well.

[Alterate]

There are gay priest's so it can't be much of a sin..

[Dirgeofcerberus]

There are gay priest's so it can't be much of a sin..

Exactly.

[Mentor]

I'm a bi-sexual male myself and religious to a certain extent; I don't believe the entirety of whats wrote down in the bible, but certain bits I do. To clarify again, it doesn't mention anything about homosexuality being a sin in itself but simply sex between two partners of the same sex being an abominaton.
Thats old testiment thogh, The same bit which gives advice on selling your daugter as a slave?


When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she shall not go out as the male slaves do. If she does not please her master, who designated her for himself, then he shall let her be redeemed; he shall have no right to sell her to a foreign people, since he has dealt unfairly with her. If he designates her for his son, he shall deal with her as with a daughter. If he takes another wife to himself, he shall not diminish the food, clothing, or marital rights of the first wife. And if he does not do these three things for her, she shall go out without debt, without payment of money.
<snip>
When a slave-owner strikes a male or female slave with a rod and the slave dies immediately, the owner shall be punished. But if the slave survives for a day or two, there is no punishment; for the slave is the owner’s property.

[WHANGFACE]

How exactly does he 'let' them do it?
Well if 'god' is in charge of everything, if it was a sin obivously he wouldn't allow it. Ohhh you get what I mean.

[asher_]

True entor!

In regards to the priest question and in terms of God and the catholic belief, i'm pretty sure it's okay providing the priest is a non practicing priest.

[RedStratocas]

1) This only applies if you are christian, because most religions dont even cover homosexuality.
2) Just a general question-- Why should christians care if homosexuals are going to hell? How does it affect them?
3) The 'it isnt natural' arguement is hypocritical. You know that humans technically arent meant to eat meat? We have many vegitarian atributes, we have simply adapted to eating meat. I can name a million things humans do that isnt natural.
4) The amount of humans on earth is far above where it really should be. So a few possible babys that dont get born isnt going to affect us that much.
5) The bible also puts women below men. It wasent until women's revolution over a century ago when women started becoming equal. The church has learned to adapt to that. Homosexuality is just another adaption.

Homosexual marriage here in the U.S. will be passed. There is only the question of how soon. When we abolished slavery, there were opponents, but now that its passed, everyone's accepted it and its hard to find someone who thinks we should go back. When women fought for their rights, people fought back. Guess what? Women are now equal. Homosexuality is just the next step.

[Craig]

Well if 'god' is in charge of everything, if it was a sin obivously he wouldn't allow it. Ohhh you get what I mean.
Ben,if there was an omni-potent God don't you think he would have got involved/not allowed more important matters? Times have changed and as Mentor pointed out slavery for daughters was common but not really in England it's not anymore, still is in some countries though. If he was incharge of everything he would have got involved with more serious choices and suffering that happens. But if he does truly exist he is giving us the choice to choose the right path. As they say people can have consequences from their action and only the path they choose will choose if they have consequences or are rewarded.

[Vixen43]

rite God existz so ye n neway leviticus woz deletd bi Jesus Christ the Saviour n bein gay rnt a sin da onli fing datz a sin iz bein lusty n havin bum sex n oral sex cuz ul go 2 hell 4 dat kk

1) This only applies if you are christian, because most religions dont even cover homosexuality.
2) Just a general question-- Why should christians care if homosexuals are going to hell? How does it affect them?
christianz shud try n save ppl frm hell
3) The 'it isnt natural' arguement is hypocritical. You know that humans technically arent meant to eat meat? We have many vegitarian atributes, we have simply adapted to eating meat. I can name a million things humans do that isnt natural.
it cumz naturally thru upbringin
4) The amount of humans on earth is far above where it really should be. So a few possible babys that dont get born isnt going to affect us that much.
it haz nuffin 2 do wiv reproduction, reproduction woz actualli neva intended
5) The bible also puts women below men. It wasent until women's revolution over a century ago when women started becoming equal. The church has learned to adapt to that. Homosexuality is just another adaption.
it onli putz women blo men bcuz da ppl dat wrote it maed it lyk dat, much of da bible as u reed it 2day iz probabli nuffin lyk da original

[Mentor]

[COLOR="DarkRed"][B]1) This only applies if you are christian, because most religions dont even cover homosexuality.
Nore does the christan bible if you read it in context "/


2) Just a general question-- Why should christians care if homosexuals are going to hell? How does it affect them?
Somthing to complain about? most are americans after all


3) The 'it isnt natural' arguement is hypocritical. You know that humans technically arent meant to eat meat? We have many vegitarian atributes, we have simply adapted to eating meat. I can name a million things humans do that isnt natural.
Actaly humans are better adapted to meat than veg and frute so thats compleaty inccorrect, all animals evolve to sute the surroundings and food sorce, if meat is unnatral for humans, vegtables are unnatral for rabbits


4) The amount of humans on earth is far above where it really should be. So a few possible babys that dont get born isnt going to affect us that much.
1st would contarys populations are in freefall, the 3rd world is makeing up for it. within the next 300 years quite a few european contarys could cease to exist..


5) The bible also puts women below men. It wasent until women's revolution over a century ago when women started becoming equal. The church has learned to adapt to that. Homosexuality is just another adaption.
The bible was adpated to put woman down to start with "/

[Zenzi]

Gods a *****. I hate him.

Plus i'm an athiest so scratch that.

If god "made us" **** then why would he hate us? ;o

[Vixen43]

Gods a *****. I hate him.

Plus i'm an athiest so scratch that.

If god "made us" **** then why would he hate us? ;o
God dnt h8 u he h8z da sin. H8 da sin luv da sinna.

[asher_]

God didn't create gay people. God created people who have a free will. They can choose to follow the will of God, or they can choose to follow the will of their flesh.

[Mentor]

God didn't create gay people. God created people who have a free will. They can choose to follow the will of God, or they can choose to follow the will of their flesh.
But god is omnisenet so althogh people has free will he already knows the choises they will make, hence meaning they will only make those choises freely if he wishes them to "/

[RedStratocas]

christianz shud try n save ppl frm hell

it cumz naturally thru upbringin

it haz nuffin 2 do wiv reproduction, reproduction woz actualli neva intended

it onli putz women blo men bcuz da ppl dat wrote it maed it lyk dat, much of da bible as u reed it 2day iz probabli nuffin lyk da original

No. They shouldnt try to save people from hell. Sorry. If people don't want to be saved, THAT'S THEIR CHOICE.

That has nothing to do with what I was saying

...what?

That was what I just said. The church has adopted to new politically correct society. Theyve done it before, they can do it again.




Actaly humans are better adapted to meat than veg and frute so thats compleaty inccorrect, all animals evolve to sute the surroundings and food sorce, if meat is unnatral for humans, vegtables are unnatral for rabbits

Ah, its true. Just take a look at our teeth. Definatly not a carnivor's dental plan. Look at basically all carnivors-- all have sharp teeth.

Yes, my point is that we've adopted to it over time because of our intelligence. If we weren't as smart, we would be eating fruit. Our physical attributes havent caught up with our mental ones.

[WHANGFACE]

Ben,if there was an omni-potent God don't you think he would have got involved/not allowed more important matters? Times have changed and as Mentor pointed out slavery for daughters was common but not really in England it's not anymore, still is in some countries though. If he was incharge of everything he would have got involved with more serious choices and suffering that happens. But if he does truly exist he is giving us the choice to choose the right path. As they say people can have consequences from their action and only the path they choose will choose if they have consequences or are rewarded.
Tbh, I agree with you, I don't believe in god really, maybe next time I should think before I post. ;P

[Mentor]

Ah, its true. Just take a look at our teeth. Definatly not a carnivor's dental plan. Look at basically all carnivors-- all have sharp teeth.
The front teath are for brighting threw flesh - complty usless on vegitaion.
K9s.. as well.. The only teath that we do have for vegitaion are Molars....

My advice: Dont become a dentist


Yes, my point is that we've adopted to it over time because of our intelligence. If we weren't as smart, we would be eating fruit. Our physical attributes havent caught up with our mental ones.[/B][/COLOR]
If we were eating frute we would have died out melenia before we started getting smart, Its becuse of are meat diet human interligence evolved? Not the other way around "/

[asher_]

Tbh, I agree with you, I don't believe in god really, maybe next time I should think before I post. ;P

The only sin that is unforgivable is not accepting or believing in God...

[BL!NKEY]

God made Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve

[Mentor]

God made Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve
So now your calling us all imbread? now that i do find offencive?

Adam and eva have children - there children have sex with each other and have more children?

Thats what that story implys?
Id rather not be the result of insest thank you very much...

[asher_]

God made Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve

If I hear that cliche trash again I will die.

[Craig]

[COLOR="DarkRed"][B]Ah, its true. Just take a look at our teeth. Definatly not a carnivor's dental plan. Look at basically all carnivors-- all have sharp teeth.

Yes, my point is that we've adopted to it over time because of our intelligence. If we weren't as smart, we would be eating fruit. Our physical attributes havent caught up with our mental ones.

Our teeth have developed of that calibre. God didn't make everyone Herb/Carnivore so he gave us the set of teeth originally and pretty much gave free will. As humans began hunting back in the day and ate alot of meat from hunting as that was the main food source their teeth developed better so they could chew/eat it easier. The teeth have developed is what I'm saying and I think your saying it aswell so basically meh lol

Also in one of your posts you said about God wanted us to treat animals fairly? Well I think it was your post if not sorry wrong guy. But whoever said it would be wrong according to the bible as it refers to using animals to survive and as a food source,I would have said this earlier but wasn't sure where from and it was Genesis and other places from the Bible.

[RedStratocas]

The front teath are for brighting threw flesh - complty usless on vegitaion.
K9s.. as well.. The only teath that we do have for vegitaion are Molars....

My advice: Dont become a dentist

If we were eating frute we would have died out melenia before we started getting smart, Its becuse of are meat diet human interligence evolved? Not the other way around "/

We couldnt have eaten meat if we didnt have the intelligence to make tools.


Our teeth have developed of that calibre. God didn't make everyone Herb/Carnivore so he gave us the set of teeth originally and pretty much gave free will. As humans began hunting back in the day and ate alot of meat from hunting as that was the main food source their teeth developed better so they could chew/eat it easier. The teeth have developed is what I'm saying and I think your saying it aswell so basically meh lol

That was what I was saying if I read your post right.

[WHANGFACE]

The only sin that is unforgivable is not accepting or believing in God...
But, I don't belive in god therefore I don't believe in his sins.

[Mentor]

We couldnt have eaten meat if we didnt have the intelligence to make tools.
Go to your local zoo and exsplain to me what you see the gorillas doing...

[Craig]

I'd say both of you are right, man used intelligence[what intelligence man had back then compared to now ;p] and from that intelligence it helped us to evolve because of the diet.

[RedStratocas]

Go to your local zoo and exsplain to me what you see the gorillas doing...

Throwing poop at eachother? Other than hitting rocks, I dont see tools.

We came from apes (no arguements from anyone), and they are still eating fruit. Why arent they dead like we would be if we ate fruit?

[Vixen43]

We didn't come from apes, we're a completely different species. We were similar to apes but we weren't apes.

[Mentor]

Throwing poop at eachother? Other than hitting rocks, I dont see tools.
Well throwing poop is useing tools? there useing it as a projectil, hence a tool from hitting another animal "/
They ask use rocks to smash there food, Thats also a tool..




We came from apes (no arguements from anyone), and they are still eating fruit. Why arent they dead like we would be if we ate fruit?
We didnt come from apes? we were seperated from that gene pool 100s of 1000s of years before apes came around, every veraint of the species that went on to become humans has now died out from ostralapithcus threw the meanderfiles.

[RedStratocas]

We didn't come from apes, we're a completely different species. We were similar to apes but we weren't apes.

I already said no arguements. Sorry, but that case is over, really. It makes perfect sense.

[BL!NKEY]

Adam and eva have children - there children have sex with each other and have more children?


Haha yeah that is a funny thing to think about..

but adam and eve suposedly had 2 boys, Kane and Able i think and one killed the other...

now I dont know how the one who was still alive reproduced...

can someone who knows the bible explain this??

I am not really into any religion but like to ask some questions.

[asher_]

Leviticus 20:13: "If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them."

[God$]

OK, here's the deal.

1) I'm real
2) It's a sin for a man and a man to have seexual intercourse; both of them have committed an abomination
3) It's a sin to masturrbate
4) Humans did not evolve from monkeys
5) Mary was a virgin all her life

[Vixen43]

I already said no arguements. Sorry, but that case is over, really. It makes perfect sense.
No, it is illogical and inconsistent. Why don't species become another species anymore? Evolution exists but not in the species becoming another species way.

[Mentor]

Leviticus 20:13: "If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them."
mankind includes both men and woman, so no sex for anyone if where sticking to that, plus i expsect your animal sacrive is late so your going to hell anyway, also you may be smited a few times "/

[Vixen43]

Okay. Being gay is not a sin, having gay sex is.

[asher_]

Haha yeah that is a funny thing to think about..

but adam and eve suposedly had 2 boys, Kane and Able i think and one killed the other...

now I dont know how the one who was still alive reproduced...

can someone who knows the bible explain this??

I am not really into any religion but like to ask some questions.


No one really knows for sure, the only solution is in the fact that Adam and Eve possibly had more than two children. According to the context, they had a 'large' family. In Genesis it says Adam became father to another son named Seth and then, it mentions in the following verse ''He became father to sons and daughters.'' I'm guessing Cain could have married one of his sisters of nieces... which is pretty strange but hey.

[Craig]

No one really knows for sure, the only solution is in the fact that Adam and Eve possibly had more than two children. According to the context, they had a 'large' family. In Genesis it says Adam became father to another son named Seth and then, it mentions in the following verse ''He became father to sons and daughters.'' I'm guessing Cain could have married one of his sisters of nieces... which is pretty strange but hey.

Wasn't it Cain that went off anyway and like was a 'bad apple' shall we say?

[God$]

I love you all; I hate the sins you commit.

[asher_]

Wasn't it Cain that went off anyway and like was a 'bad apple' shall we say?

I don't know too much about Cain apart from him having a son called Enoch and living in a land of Nod.

[RedStratocas]

No, it is illogical and inconsistent. Why don't species become another species anymore? Evolution exists but not in the species becoming another species way.

Evolution takes time, and evolution is still happening. We are getting smarter, thats evolution in itself.

It takes thousands of years for a change to occur, and how those changes occur make perfect sense and are proven.

[Kukuthebird]

I don't believe in god. I just think its a piece of matter.

I think we should make decisions ourselfs. Not listen to others. In the end its us we're talking about ;D

Homosexuality has a made a big affect on everyone. I think its fine and without it their wouldnt be any diversity. Women and man and thats it. Now theirs homosexuality theirs something to think about if you get me lols x]

[WHANGFACE]

Okay. Being gay is not a sin, having gay sex is.
Actually its just ****, isn't it? So if hetrosexual couples have **** its a sin still.

[Punky]

To be honest I don't see enough proof to show 'God' even exists (Im agnostic). In my opinon there is nothing at all wrong with homosexuality, you don't choose who you fall in love with, it just happens. Beside being involved with the same gender doesn't harm anyone so I don't see why it's a sin, also if 'God' did exist and he thought homosexuality was a sin why did he let humans have the choice? Why didn't he just program there brains not to have such thoughts or feelings..after all he is ment to be omnipotent.

If you love someone should it really matter if the person is the same gender or not? I say no. I don't see why people have to make such a big deal over it.

[RedStratocas]

Okay. Being gay is not a sin, having gay sex is.

Look up sex in the dictionary. (Everything I would say would be asteriked out if I just wrote it here.) It's impossible without 2 things. Otherwise, its not sex. So gay people can do whatever they want with eachother.

[Stab]

Now i know why its called sodomy
can you imagine if it were called Gommorahy

[Craig]

To be honest I don't see enough proof to show 'God' even exists (Im agnostic). In my opinon there is nothing at all wrong with homosexuality, you don't choose who you fall in love with, it just happens. Beside being involved with the same gender doesn't harm anyone so I don't see why it's a sin, also if 'God' did exist and he thought homosexuality was a sin why did he let humans have the choice? Why didn't he just program there brains not to have such thoughts or feelings..after all he is ment to be omnipotent.

If you love someone should it really matter if the person is the same gender or not? I say no. I don't see why people have to make such a big deal over it.

If he did exist he gave Human's free will that way people can choose the right path and be rewarded or choose the bad path and cause suffering =/
Being omnipotent has nothing to do with not being able to program brains I mean if he could create this whole universe and this race and everything pretty much I'm sure he could handle some brain control.
And people have opinions about homosexuality and I'd rather they had an opinion and said it than not say it but think it. I myself have no problem with Homosexuality.

[Punky]

If he did exist he gave Human's free will that way people can choose the right path and be rewarded or choose the bad path and cause suffering .

Yeh but why bother? If killing and stealing and homosexuality etc... is sinful why give people the choice to do it? If you give people the choice how can you say weather its right or wrong? If something is wrong why give the them the choice to do it...If your giving them the choice how can they know if its wrong?

I'm not sure if I'm making sence or if what I'm trying to say is actually coming out right.... Meh >.<

[Craig]

Yeh but why bother? If killing and stealing and homosexuality etc... is sinful why give people the choice to do it? If you give people the choice how can you say weather its right or wrong? If something is wrong why give the them the choice to do it...If your giving them the choice how can they know if its wrong?

I'm not sure if I'm making sence or if what I'm trying to say is actually coming out right.... Meh >.<

Well life is only part of the 'process' and afterlife is a pretty big part of the process. And you can say if it's right or wrong because the right one will be the one that causes the least suffering,is the least selfish and other reasons like that. They are given the choice to do wrong so they know right from wrong and can repent or proceed to do wrong and pay in the afterlife. And they will know it's wrong because of the suffering caused in the future.

[Punky]

Well life is only part of the 'process' and afterlife is a pretty big part of the process. And you can say if it's right or wrong because the right one will be the one that causes the least suffering,is the least selfish and other reasons like that. They are given the choice to do wrong so they know right from wrong and can repent or proceed to do wrong and pay in the afterlife. And they will know it's wrong because of the suffering caused in the future.

Yeh but how will they know what will happen in the future? How can they know that they're actions will cause suffering? If they just get given a choice without knowing the consiquences how can they know if it's right or wrong?

Okay I'm going to stop posting on here now else I'll be typing up the essays I did in 'R.S-Philosophy and Ethics'.... Which I don't really want to do lol...

Just to let people know I'm not against religion or anything, I just don't see enough proof so please don't start flaming me :).

[Grimmauld]

Well, maybe it is a sin if you believe in God.

[Craig]

Yeh but how will they know what will happen in the future? How can they know that they're actions will cause suffering? If they just get given a choice without knowing the consiquences how can they know if it's right or wrong?

Okay I'm going to stop posting on here now else I'll be typing up the essays I did in 'R.S-Philosophy and Ethics'.... Which I don't really want to do lol...

Just to let people know I'm not against religion or anything, I just don't see enough proof so please don't start flaming me :).

They won't know what exactly will happen in the future but if they think about decisions and which will cause more suffering through their own actions. Like I know that if I had an enemy for example I could talk it out with him or punch him and could hurt him, which is causing suffering where as talking is the correct method that won't cause suffering! I love Philosophy + Ethics,taking it as an A-Level in just about a months time but have already done some previous research;)

And proof isn't always needed but the Evolution theory is rather splendid ;p

[Punky]

I love Philosophy + Ethics,taking it as an A-Level in just about a months time but have already done some previous research;)


It's a very good course!!! I did it at ALevel :)


I'm really going now lol

[Craig]

Lol have fun!

What sort of topics did you study in the course[For when you get back and all:P]

And urmm I forgot his name but on to what Piro said, one Philosopher thought[his name was french sounding i think] that if you ;
believed in god and god existed you would be rewarded
didnt believe in god and god existed you'd be punished.
believed in god and didnt exist you basically wasted your life
didnt believe in god and didnt exist then nothing really.

[asher_]

Beside being involved with the same gender doesn't harm anyone so I don't see why it's a sin, also if 'God' did exist and he thought homosexuality was a sin why did he let humans have the choice? Why didn't he just program there brains not to have such thoughts or feelings..after all he is ment to be omnipotent.

If you love someone should it really matter if the person is the same gender or not? I say no. I don't see why people have to make such a big deal over it.

God gave humans the gift of free will, with the intentions of each human being unique and special and living their own life. Of course with free will, this lead those to stray from what God believed was right, in this case, sexual intercourse with someone of the same sex being sinful.

In regards to love, yeah it's completely unconditional, however alot of people sadly don't see it that way.

[Tomm]

Well humans evloved.. They were not created by some big guy in white. The big bang created the universe. So people are free to do what they like.. Also you wouldent obey rules the someone you have never met on the other side of the world of created? So why should you obey rules that are in a book that most likely some guy with a over exsited imagination wrote about God and Jesus.

Also lets say you are a christian, how do you know you are beliving in the right religon, thats if there it any true religions at all..

There is no full sientific evidence that God created the world or even Jesus exsited.. (Same applys to other religions). The only thing be have full proof for is the big bang and that we evlolved. IF a scientist by unquestionable doubt and other people support it proves that one of the religions is a true religion (However unliky it is) then, yes I will support it. Untill then I am with the big bang & the evolution idea.

If God was in control of the world, then why wouldent he make eveyone belive in him...

[FrozenWhisper]

O.o, Why would god care if you were gay? If he's real
No offence, but I don't like christainit (sp?) for what they did to wiccan's in the burning times. And that most of them try to convert me to christainit (sp?).

[DMB-Hosting]

God didnt make us, And actaly the bible wants you to abstain more than anything "/

Who made us then?
Dong go on about evolution, because then who made the first creature.

There is a lot more to this world than we think

[asher_]

Theres also no evidence to prove that the 'big bang theory' is the reason we're all here :/ heh as if.

[Mentor]

Who made us then?
Dong go on about evolution, because then who made the first creature.

There is a lot more to this world than we think
0.o evilotion a abiogenisis have nothing to do with each other, theres just far to many idiots who confuse the subjects.
Evilotion is a proccess on which life adapts to suite its surroundings. it has ABOSULTY NOTHING to do whith the creation of life, Thats a COMPLEATY diffent topic "/
Thats like asking a lumberjack how to cut down a tree and saying his method is wrong becuse Humans dont reporoduce Asexualy "/ Its stupid...

No one made us? or the first creature? or the Earth, Or the Universe, Its all part of a proccess "/


Plus just give an idea how stupid that comment was? Then who created god..


Theres also no evidence to prove that the 'big bang theory' is the reason we're all here :/ heh as if.
Backgorund radiation? Redshift?
Heres one you can do at home.
At night look out your window at the stars, since theres inifate stars, if we have been here forever, light from everyone one would have reached us.
Since we can only see a few, that kinda proves we have only been here a finite lengh of time "/ althogh does prove its at least 6 billion of so years "/

[Punky]

Lol have fun!

What sort of topics did you study in the course[For when you get back and all:P]



We did about Abortion, Euthanasia, Utiliterianism, (the ethics and philosophy behide each one). We did about the philosophy of religion. We did loads about what different philosophers said about Gods exisitance or nonexistance. But to do the course you have to be very open minded and be able to look at the subjects from a believers and non believers point of view. All the essays you do need to have points form both sides, thats why I loved the course. As I'm agnostic and don't truely believe or not believe in God I was able to see points from both perspectives. Anyway you should enjoy it :D

[asher_]

Plus just give an idea how stupid that comment was? Then who created god..


God by definition is the uncreated creator of the universe, so asking 'Who created God?' is completely illogical.

[satan]

Says you God!!!!! oh hahahahaha

[satan]

Wait A minute I am bisexual. Sexuality should not matter

[asher_]

Satan don't flame this thread

[FlyingJesus]

I'm not going to bother arguing the existance of God, as that's irrelevant. The point of this thread isn't "does God exist?" but "do Bible teachings portray homosexuality as wrong?". To answer the question in the frankest way possible, yes. Whoever said (on the 2nd or 3rd page) that there's no evidence to show homosexuality as wrong, check out the original post.

Now yes, you can say that it's Old Testament, which also says about slavery, animal sacrifice and other things that we see as pointless (or even wrong) these days, but they are just as relevant. The fact that people don't do these things any more doesn't change the fact that they are Bible laws. I hear a lot of "times have changed, the religion should change with the times", but why should it? How many other religions change just because society does? Do we see Muslims saying "oh never mind girls, you might as well get semi-naked, the rest of the world is"? I think not.

I don't know (or even know of) a single Christian who complies to every Christian law. The only reason I dislike the religion is for that fact - it's not taken seriously. If you're going to proclaim yourself religious, know and stick to your own teachings.

About forgiveness.. if you do something over and over again, you obviously aren't really sorry for doing it. The idea that God has to forgive you for everything is misread, He will forgive you if you are truly sorry, but if you are not sorry and ask forgiveness, it's more deception and is in fact a lessened chance of you being forgiven.

To sum up: If you're a Christian, you should respect the laws of your God and not submit to the sin of sodomy. If you're not, bum away to your heart's content.

[asher_]

Even the sin of sodomy can be forgiven.

[DMB-Hosting]

FFS Mentor your too clever -.-

[Craig]

Well humans evloved.. They were not created by some big guy in white. The big bang created the universe. So people are free to do what they like.. Also you wouldent obey rules the someone you have never met on the other side of the world of created? So why should you obey rules that are in a book that most likely some guy with a over exsited imagination wrote about God and Jesus.

Also lets say you are a christian, how do you know you are beliving in the right religon, thats if there it any true religions at all..

There is no full sientific evidence that God created the world or even Jesus exsited.. (Same applys to other religions). The only thing be have full proof for is the big bang and that we evlolved. IF a scientist by unquestionable doubt and other people support it proves that one of the religions is a true religion (However unliky it is) then, yes I will support it. Untill then I am with the big bang & the evolution idea.

If God was in control of the world, then why wouldent he make eveyone belive in him...

It's called free will "/ If you choose to believe in God and live by his commandments etc you will be rewarded but if you don't believe in God and don't stick to his commandments you will be punished...its not rocket science.


O.o, Why would god care if you were gay? If he's real
No offence, but I don't like christainit (sp?) for what they did to wiccan's in the burning times. And that most of them try to convert me to christainit (sp?).
Why would God care? Cos of pro-creation, simple really. I won't go into detail atm but you should know what is meant from pro-creation and why God would not want Gays.


Who made us then?
Dong go on about evolution, because then who made the first creature.

There is a lot more to this world than we think
As mentor rightly said wth? Evolution has nothing to do with creation of life. Evolution is how animals/living things adapt to it's surroundings thus being more likely to survive and thus carry this on through production so their offspring have the same features, that's evolution and has no relevance to creation "/


We did about Abortion, Euthanasia, Utiliterianism, (the ethics and philosophy behide each one). We did about the philosophy of religion. We did loads about what different philosophers said about Gods exisitance or nonexistance. But to do the course you have to be very open minded and be able to look at the subjects from a believers and non believers point of view. All the essays you do need to have points form both sides, thats why I loved the course. As I'm agnostic and don't truely believe or not believe in God I was able to see points from both perspectives. Anyway you should enjoy it Ace sounds awesome:o


God by definition is the uncreated creator of the universe, so asking 'Who created God?' is completely illogical.
Definition? What we're not going by some little definition given by the bible which has changed since it was first created "/ If you wanna start going on about whats logical and whats illogical then just think about God and how illogical that is =/


Now yes, you can say that it's Old Testament, which also says about slavery, animal sacrifice and other things that we see as pointless (or even wrong) these days, but they are just as relevant. The fact that people don't do these things any more doesn't change the fact that they are Bible laws. I hear a lot of "times have changed, the religion should change with the times", but why should it? How many other religions change just because society does? Do we see Muslims saying "oh never mind girls, you might as well get semi-naked, the rest of the world is"? I think not. Too right it's just ignorant people that want to 'keep up with the times' but if Religion like Christianity has been around for thousands of years and hasn't changed then why should WE be the ones who change it? Pretty stupid people that say that "/

[FlyingJesus]

Even the sin of sodomy can be forgiven.

It's pretty difficult to commit sodomy without meaning to.. yes you can be forgiven, for any sin in fact, but you have to be truly sorry. I won't go as far as to say that sodomy is an unforgiveable sin, but God blatantly isn't a fan, seeing as how He commanded that sodomites be put to death, and eventually killed them all himself with a rain of sulphur and brimstone. Basically, if you're a Christian, you're supposed to love, fear and respect God above all else, so you shouldn't be wanting to do anything to upset or anger Him in the first place.

[Virgin Mary]

Well humans evloved.. They were not created by some big guy in white. The big bang created the universe. So people are free to do what they like.. Also you wouldent obey rules the someone you have never met on the other side of the world of created? So why should you obey rules that are in a book that most likely some guy with a over exsited imagination wrote about God and Jesus.

Also lets say you are a christian, how do you know you are beliving in the right religon, thats if there it any true religions at all..

There is no full sientific evidence that God created the world or even Jesus exsited.. (Same applys to other religions). The only thing be have full proof for is the big bang and that we evlolved. IF a scientist by unquestionable doubt and other people support it proves that one of the religions is a true religion (However unliky it is) then, yes I will support it. Untill then I am with the big bang & the evolution idea.

If God was in control of the world, then why wouldent he make eveyone belive in him...
The big bang and evolution are theories, they aren't proven. The big bang is illogical and inconsistent, where did the matter and the motion that started it come from? Without a creator nothing could be created, hence there must have been a creator. He doesn't make everyone believe in him because doing so would be interferring with humans free will and also this separates the good people from the bad people; it's like saying why doesn't he just make everyone good.

[asher_]

Definition? What we're not going by some little definition given by the bible which has changed since it was first created "/ If you wanna start going on about whats logical and whats illogical then just think about God and how illogical that is =/

There is nothing illogical about God.

[Craig]

There is nothing illogical about God.
Just because your Christian doesn't mean you have to deny the illogicialness about him. I mean if there truly was a God, Gods could make a weight which he is unable to lift yeah? So when he's made it he wouldn't be all powerful if he couldnt lift it, but if he was able to lift it then surely he couldnt make it?

[Virgin Mary]

Just because your Christian doesn't mean you have to deny the illogicialness about him. I mean if there truly was a God, Gods could make a weight which he is unable to lift yeah? So when he's made it he wouldn't be all powerful if he couldnt lift it, but if he was able to lift it then surely he couldnt make it?
God can't do anything illogical. People always ask why God can't make a four sided triangle if he's all powerful, simple answer: God can't do anything illogical, if a triangle was four sided it would no longer be a triangle it'd be quadrilateral. Asking if God could make a weight that he couldn't lift is illogical.

[FlyingJesus]

However, He could say He's done it and regardless of whether it ever actually happened, it would be true because He (being wholly good) is always truthful, and His word is always right.

[Lozzoling]

Meh, god doesn't exist and if he did i wouldn't be bothered about him.

I prefer Buddism.

[FlyingJesus]

Try posting something relevant next time, thanks.

[Herman]

Well I don't know about christinality, but in Islam, my teacher said homosexuality is just one of the signs that the world is going to end soon.

[Buzle]

God sucks.

Didn't they teach you that in church?

Mewt, I find that VERY offensive, please don't say that. As it inflicts with other peoples religions such as mine.

[Mentor]

Well I don't know about christinality, but in Islam, my teacher said homosexuality is just one of the signs that the world is going to end soon.
Yet it predates the religion by 1000s of years.. wired that..


God by definition is the uncreated creator of the universe, so asking 'Who created God?' is completely illogical.
Actaly not unless you belive in first cause argument, which in that cause your libarys must have book covers.

If god doesnt need a cause why does the universe?


Even the sin of sodomy can be forgiven.
So god forgives "pride, gluttony, sloth, greed, and failure to help the poor."
(Ezekiel 16:49)


The big bang and evolution are theories, they aren't proven.
No actaly there FACT and are PROVEN. Your just incrediblty ignorat, especaly of the langwage used. The theary is the hypothisis exsplaining the event which is fact. We no evolution happens and is happening, But we not 100% sure how its happening, Althogh where pretty close...


The big bang is illogical and inconsistent, where did the matter and the motion that started it come from?
Big band isnt actaly a theary its just a byproduct of teaching methods.
When you start school your taught you cant devide 3 by 2. the next year you taught you actaly can.
Big bang is the cant devide 3 by 2. A real theary, say M-theary of String theary is the 1.5 ...



Without a creator nothing could be created, hence there must have been a creator.
Can you prove that? and if so where does god come from? if he doesnt need createing nore does anything esle


He doesn't make everyone believe in him because doing so would be interferring with humans free will and also this separates the good people from the bad people; it's like saying why doesn't he just make everyone good.God both makes them good and makes them bad thogh "/
Plus you dont actaly have as free will as you think, try willing yourself to fly, im doubful youl have much success...


There is nothing illogical about God.
Gods omnipitant right?
Can god create somthing so hevey he can not lift it?
Oh PARADOX...

If god is benevolent and Omniptant? why is there evil in the world. Ether god does not want to stop evil (not benevolent) or he cannot (not omniptant)

Oh crap, theres another paradox.. seems a little illlogical to me "/


Mewt, I find that VERY offensive, please don't say that. As it inflicts with other peoples religions such as mine.
Where in the bible does it clame god doesnt suck? your being just as offencive towards the religion by makeing up stuff about it thats not actaly there? Whether god sucks or not is not for you to decide, god defines the consepts, its his choise not yours...

[asher_]

If god is benevolent and Omniptant? why is there evil in the world. Ether god does not want to stop evil (not benevolent) or he cannot (not omniptant)

God cannot control the evil in our world without eliminating free will. A free will is not just a nice addendum on human nature, it is an integral part of who we are. This being the case, if God were to eliminate evil, He would also be eliminating free will. And in doing so, God would be perpetrating the most horrendous evil of all: the annihilation of the human race.

It's not Gods fault that there is so much evil in our world, remember that. God created man kind to be perfect and sin free so it was all down to man kind who created sin, and evil to spawn through the generations.

[Craig]

God cannot control the evil in our world without eliminating free will. A free will is not just a nice addendum on human nature, it is an integral part of who we are. This being the case, if God were to eliminate evil, He would also be eliminating free will. And in doing so, God would be perpetrating the most horrendous evil of all: the annihilation of the human race.

It's not Gods fault that there is so much evil in our world, remember that. God created man kind to be perfect and sin free so it was all down to man kind who created sin, and evil to spawn through the generations.

Well if you think of the Design argument then surely humans are only as evil as God let us be? Like a watch is the product of design and so too are humans, design from God yeah? And if the product is only as smart as whomever it was created by then surely it's the same with God and humans only being as evil as whomever it was created by?

[Mentor]

God cannot control the evil in our world without eliminating free will. A free will is not just a nice addendum on human nature, it is an integral part of who we are. This being the case, if God were to eliminate evil, He would also be eliminating free will. And in doing so, God would be perpetrating the most horrendous evil of all: the annihilation of the human race.
So why did god give us free will? If it only causes suffering and evil? why were we given it? why could that attribute not just be removed and us live in blissful happyness?
Why did god create a dark side to human nature, god in his omniscinets already knows the desion we will make, and he created the phycie that makes it, the person will only make the wrong desion if god made them wrongly?

[FlyingJesus]

Plus you dont actaly have as free will as you think, try willing yourself to fly, im doubful youl have much success...

If had enough willpower to deny all laws of physics and .. well, everything, you could put yourself in a state of mind where you truly believed yourself to be flying, and if you were in this state of mind then by the theory "I think therefore I am", you will succeed in flying. Alternatively, with enough willpower you could alter your understanding of flying so that by doing something else, you are in fact to your own mind, flying.


Gods omnipitant right?
Can god create somthing so hevey he can not lift it?
Oh PARADOX...

If god is benevolent and Omniptant? why is there evil in the world. Ether god does not want to stop evil (not benevolent) or he cannot (not omniptant)

Oh crap, theres another paradox.. seems a little illlogical to me "/

He's omnipotent, therefore He can overcome any paradox, even if it's beyond human understanding. That's the beauty of the thing, and you have to admit that there's no way around that particular argument.

[Virgin Mary]

Yet it predates the religion by 1000s of years.. wired that..


Actaly not unless you belive in first cause argument, which in that cause your libarys must have book covers.

If god doesnt need a cause why does the universe?


So god forgives "pride, gluttony, sloth, greed, and failure to help the poor."
(Ezekiel 16:49)


No actaly there FACT and are PROVEN. Your just incrediblty ignorat, especaly of the langwage used. The theary is the hypothisis exsplaining the event which is fact. We no evolution happens and is happening, But we not 100% sure how its happening, Althogh where pretty close...


Big band isnt actaly a theary its just a byproduct of teaching methods.
When you start school your taught you cant devide 3 by 2. the next year you taught you actaly can.
Big bang is the cant devide 3 by 2. A real theary, say M-theary of String theary is the 1.5 ...


Can you prove that? and if so where does god come from? if he doesnt need createing nore does anything esle

God both makes them good and makes them bad thogh "/
Plus you dont actaly have as free will as you think, try willing yourself to fly, im doubful youl have much success...


Gods omnipitant right?
Can god create somthing so hevey he can not lift it?
Oh PARADOX...

If god is benevolent and Omniptant? why is there evil in the world. Ether god does not want to stop evil (not benevolent) or he cannot (not omniptant)

Oh crap, theres another paradox.. seems a little illlogical to me "/


Where in the bible does it clame god doesnt suck? your being just as offencive towards the religion by makeing up stuff about it thats not actaly there? Whether god sucks or not is not for you to decide, god defines the consepts, its his choise not yours...
God doesn't need a cause because God is infinital, with no beginning and no end. God created time so God must have existed before time thus God would have had no real beginning anyway. I know evolution exists, just not in the species changing into a different species way, but, for example, immunity is a case of evolution. God never made evil, he made humans with the capacity to be evil and through free will can humans choose to do right or wrong. The capability to fly has nothing to do with free will, the only thing stopping you is the incapability of the human body to do so and gravity, not God suddenly pulling you down.

[asher_]

So why did god give us free will? If it only causes suffering and evil? why were we given it? why could that attribute not just be removed and us live in blissful happyness?
Why did god create a dark side to human nature, god in his omniscinets already knows the desion we will make, and he created the phycie that makes it, the person will only make the wrong desion if god made them wrongly?

God wanted everyone to love him and only love that comes from a free choice of will is true love, if theres no free will then love isn't genuine.

[SHADYWARRIOR]

Aiyo, homersexuality is wrong full stop.

[Virgin Mary]

Aiyo, homersexuality is wrong full stop.
And why is that?

[Mentor]

If had enough willpower to deny all laws of physics and .. well, everything, you could put yourself in a state of mind where you truly believed yourself to be flying, and if you were in this state of mind then by the theory "I think therefore I am", you will succeed in flying. Alternatively, with enough willpower you could alter your understanding of flying so that by doing something else, you are in fact to your own mind, flying.
Beliveing you are flying and flying are very differnt... Alot of drunks may think there petting pink eliphants.. those pink eliphants still aint real "/
And i think therefore i am is not a theary, Nore anything, its part of descarts cogieto, which only justifes the single point which is "there is a thinking thing" nothing else..


He's omnipotent, therefore He can overcome any paradox, even if it's beyond human understanding. That's the beauty of the thing, and you have to admit that there's no way around that particular argument.
Well actaly its quite easy, and god looses it. A square is a shape with 4 sides, god cannot create a square with 3 sides, or it ceases to be a square, althogh he can make somone belive the 3 sided shape is a square it will not actaly be so.
Such as He can not make it so that i never existed, since by existing now it would be impossible, regaurdless of the power, closes it delusion of many people and himself "/


God doesn't need a cause because God is infinital, with no beginning and no end. God created time so God must have existed before time thus God would have had no real beginning anyway.
Before time is a contradiction? plus you just proved god does not exist.
Existance is the state of contingent being within space and time. If god is nether contingent or within space and time, he therefor does not exist "/

Plus Justife the belife that the universe needs a start first. What possible reason do we need for existance to requre a beginning?



I know evolution exists, just not in the species changing into a different species way, but, for example, immunity is a case of evolution. God never made evil, he made humans with the capacity to be evil and through free will can humans choose to do right or wrong.
Why give humans the capasity to do wrong? for his own enjoment? since all that is is cuaseing suffering, hence evil? and evil aint very benevolent "/


The capability to fly has nothing to do with free will, the only thing stopping you is the incapability of the human body to do so and gravity, not God suddenly pulling you down.Actaly "religios" scients have clamed they disproved gravity and actaly gods pushing us down... only in america.. but still.
If we had will that was free, we would be god, if we do not have the choise of doing somthing i will is then constrained to the phisical limations, and isnt free at all "/
Such as gods will isnt free ether? if it were he couldnt be benevolent as that limits his will only to good "/


God wanted everyone to love him and only love that comes from a free choice of will is true love, if theres no free will then love isn't genuine.

Old testiment god didnt want love? he just wanted worship? he basicly just killed people realy "/ benevolence came with the new testiment, its realy a complty differnt god "/

[asher_]

Aiyo, homersexuality is wrong full stop.

and why is that?

*haha at me posting the same as sora, apologies ;p*

[Gina♥]

I Believe that nothing ever matters in life so wether your straight/Bi/Gay Or anything else It's not something you need to care about! It's basicly the same as being straight if you're gay/bi. I Don't know why people make such a big deal about it, We're all Human! We're eventually all guna die anyway, so my advice is for everyone to just make the most of their lives how they want to & Don't let anything get in the way.
Every single person has a special quality x]

I Know this has nothing to do with God what i'm saying, but i'm just getting my point accross ;]

[Virgin Mary]

Beliveing you are flying and flying are very differnt... Alot of drunks may think there petting pink eliphants.. those pink eliphants still aint real "/
And i think therefore i am is not a theary, Nore anything, its part of descarts cogieto, which only justifes the single point which is "there is a thinking thing" nothing else..


Well actaly its quite easy, and god looses it. A square is a shape with 4 sides, god cannot create a square with 3 sides, or it ceases to be a square, althogh he can make somone belive the 3 sided shape is a square it will not actaly be so.
Such as He can not make it so that i never existed, since by existing now it would be impossible, regaurdless of the power, closes it delusion of many people and himself "/


Before time is a contradiction? plus you just proved god does not exist.
Existance is the state of contingent being within space and time. If god is nether contingent or within space and time, he therefor does not exist "/

Plus Justife the belife that the universe needs a start first. What possible reason do we need for existance to requre a beginning?


Why give humans the capasity to do wrong? for his own enjoment? since all that is is cuaseing suffering, hence evil? and evil aint very benevolent "/
Actaly "religios" scients have clamed they disproved gravity and actaly gods pushing us down... only in america.. but still.
If we had will that was free, we would be god, if we do not have the choise of doing somthing i will is then constrained to the phisical limations, and isnt free at all "/
Such as gods will isnt free ether? if it were he couldnt be benevolent as that limits his will only to good "/



Old testiment god didnt want love? he just wanted worship? he basicly just killed people realy "/ benevolence came with the new testiment, its realy a complty differnt god "/
If God created space and time then God would exist outside of space and time. God never actually changed his ways, Jesus did most of it in the new testament, God rarely actually did much.

[SHADYWARRIOR]

Its unatural and purely disgusting.

[Mentor]

If God created space and time then God would exist outside of space and time. God never actually changed his ways, Jesus did most of it in the new testament, God rarely actually did much.
You cant exist outside space and time, Existance means a continent state inisde space and time.
Thats like saying a 5 sided shape is a triangle. It doesnt meat the definition hence cannot be a trainagle, same with the existance "/.


Its unatural and purely disgusting.
Actlay its entirely natural, your just dumb

[asher_]

Its unatural and purely disgusting.

and who are you or anyone else to say what is natural?

[Gina♥]

Its unatural and purely disgusting.

It's COMPLETELY natural.

[SHADYWARRIOR]

Its completely natural huh? You people are hypocrites as you all know deep down inside you would never get off with the opposite sex.

[Virgin Mary]

Its unatural and purely disgusting.
Then so is being straight. To be honest God doesn't care whether you're gay or straight, he only forbids **** sex which is assosciated with homosexuals for some reason, also which is why he only says "a man shalt not lieth with man" and doesn't forbid a woman lying with a woman; a woman and a woman can't naturally have **** sex.

You cant exist outside space and time, Existance means a continent state inisde space and time.
Thats like saying a 5 sided shape is a triangle. It doesnt meat the definition hence cannot be a trainagle, same with the existance "/.
God created time and space and with it he created that rule, because God created time and space which we exist within such rules do not apply to him.

[Mentor]

Its completely natural huh? You people are hypocrites as you all know deep down inside you would never get off with the opposite sex.
To many assumptions my gender insecure friend. Just becuse your worryed you may be gay aint no reason to go along the "its complty wrong and unatural route" its part of human nature, its variation, the driveing force behind evilotion, the force behind pretty much all life there is on earth "/.


God created time and space and with it he created that rule, because God created time and space which we exist within such rules do not apply to him.
We creayed that rule lol not god? We could have called 5 sided shapes trainagles, its just the word we use to denote the consept, the consept is the same by any name "/

[SHADYWARRIOR]

Now I don't beleive in god and don't have any religion; but what I am about to say is a pure example of how mankind started and how it is intended to keep on:

God created Adam and Eve, not Adam and Harry.

[Mentor]

Now I don't beleive in god and don't have any religion; but what I am about to say is a pure example of how mankind started and how it is intended to keep on:

God created Adam and Eve, not Adam and Harry.
Well you may sleep like to with your sisters, but im not a fan of imbreeding so no thanks...

[SHADYWARRIOR]

Lol that did make me chuckle.

Pfft, I can't be bothered to argue. Lets just say normal people like me and hipocryts like yourself are entilted to our own opinions.

[Virgin Mary]

Lol that did make me chuckle.

Pfft, I can't be bothered to argue. Lets just say normal people like me and hipocryts like yourself are entilted to our own opinions.
Please elaborate as to how I am being hypocritical. There is nothing unnatural about homosexuals because it comes naturally.

[Biseinen]

Please elaborate as to how I am being hypocritical. There is nothing unnatural about homosexuals because it comes naturally.

I sooooo wanna know who made the Virgin Mary account. Lol.

[Virgin Mary]

I sooooo wanna know who made the Virgin Mary account. Lol.
I did.

[asher_]

Lol that did make me chuckle.

Pfft, I can't be bothered to argue. Lets just say normal people like me and hipocryts like yourself are entilted to our own opinions.

also elaborate on why you think of yourself as 'normal' and your definition of normal, because in a world filled with so much diversity, there is no normal i'm afraid Shady.

[Mentor]

Lol that did make me chuckle.

Pfft, I can't be bothered to argue. Lets just say normal people like me and hipocryts like yourself are entilted to our own opinions.
What have i said hypocritcaly? and what do you mean by normal.

[Craig]

What the hell in this life is normal anyway? ;/

[Punky]

Lol the point of this thread had been lost....In the eys of 'God' homosexualality is wrong... Full stop, the end question answered....



p.s In the eyes of Punky it is not :p

[Craig]

Lol the point of this thread had been lost....In the eys of 'God' homosexualality is wrong... Full stop, the end question answered....



p.s In the eyes of Punky it is not :p

Yeah I think we covered that,but then again so is sex before marriage I think.

[Mentor]

Lol the point of this thread had been lost....In the eys of 'God' homosexualality is wrong... Full stop, the end question answered....



p.s In the eyes of Punky it is not :p
Since when.
God never said anything about homosexuality? the bible was written by people, its there opinions not gods.
Even the bible doesnt clame its wrong "/ even in the old testiment which clames selling your daughter as a slave is right "/

[Punky]

FFS I was just trying to end it lol. And how do you know God never said it? Have you met the dude, and asked him what he thinks?

Didn't think so.. So ner..

No one here is right and no one is wrong. Believe what you want and just leave it at that, theres no way people are going to change what they think just from reading this thread. Get over the fact that some people belive in God and some don't.. It's okay quoting philosophers and bits of the bible but at the end of the day it all just speculation, you can't say if it's right or wrong 'cause you don't know, and you never will...unless you can somehow build a time machine and go back to the beginning of time and see how it all began and then you'd know if God existed and if he did you could ask him what he thinks about homosexuality. But that aint gunna happen so I think it's just beast to leave it be :p

[Mentor]

FFS I was just trying to end it lol. And how do you know God never said it? Have you met the dude, and asked him what he thinks?

Didn't think so.. So ner..
I didnt say i had, i just said hed never said what you said he did. Not that id heard him say otherwize?




No one here is right and no one is wrong. Believe what you want and just leave it at that, theres no way people are going to change what they think just from reading this thread. Get over the fact that some people belive in God and some don't.. It's okay quoting philosophers and bits of the bible but at the end of the day it all just speculation, you can't say if it's right or wrong 'cause you don't know, and you never will...unless you can somehow build a time machine and go back to the beginning of time and see how it all began and then you'd know if God existed and if he did you could ask him what he thinks about homosexuality. But that aint gunna happen so I think it's just beast to leave it be :p
Oh we dont need a time machine, We have teliscopes and the speed of light, since light takes so long to reach us, say billions of years, when it does what is shown is the universe billions of years ago... far back enogh in fact to see the beginning of the universe :D

[Punky]

Oh we dont need a time machine, We have teliscopes and the speed of light, since light takes so long to reach us, say billions of years, when it does what is shown is the universe billions of years ago... far back enogh in fact to see the beginning of the universe :D

Okay so thats true light speed and all that jive...So why do we only have theories? Why hasn't someone just gone.. Ooo look I can see how the universe was created by looking through my telescope... and then show it to everyone???? Answer me that then?

[Mentor]

Okay so thats true light speed and all that jive...So why do we only have theories? Why hasn't someone just gone.. Ooo look I can see how the universe was created by looking through my telescope... and then show it to everyone???? Answer me that then?
Becuse im perfectly capable of looking at a car, or even driveing one without knowing how it works, how all the componets fit together, the mechanics of stearing, gears, the engine etc "/
We form a theary based on the evidance, we test it, if its right we test it more, if its wrong, we adapt it and test it again, so we always slowly get towards the truth.
A scientific theary is not the same as a normal theary "/

[Punky]

I'll seriously gunna leave this now lol, i cant be bothered with this ne more.

[Mentor]

I'll seriously gunna leave this now lol, i cant be bothered with this ne more.
Technicaly speaking? would god actaly have eyes?

[FlyingJesus]

Beliveing you are flying and flying are very differnt... Alot of drunks may think there petting pink eliphants.. those pink eliphants still aint real "/

They may not be real to you, but to whoever sees them they are very real. Who's to say that "tricks of the mind" are not actually alterations to reality? Belief is a big thing that can alter perception of reality - any hypnotist can tell you that.


Well actaly its quite easy, and god looses it. A square is a shape with 4 sides, god cannot create a square with 3 sides, or it ceases to be a square, althogh he can make somone belive the 3 sided shape is a square it will not actaly be so.
Such as He can not make it so that i never existed, since by existing now it would be impossible, regaurdless of the power, closes it delusion of many people and himself "/

Congratulations on completely missing my point. Omnipotency means that you can do anything, no matter how many paradoxes it crosses, no matter how much logic it craps on. There's no way to imagine a 3-sided square, like you said, because we'd know it to be a triangle, but omnipotency would allow such a thing to still be a square. It's beyond understanding, beyond anything that you or I could possibly be taught. Omnipotency therefore is an argument which cannot be overcome.


God never said anything about homosexuality? the bible was written by people, its there opinions not gods.

The Bible is supposedly the word of God, written by prophets who scribed God's message. Whether you believe that or not is irrelevent, the point is that the Bible clearly states that a man "laying" with another man is a sin. I really couldn't care less who agrees with that or not, I personally don't care who you do or where you stick it, but trying to argue that the Bible doesn't say something when it does is really quite pointless.


Even the bible doesnt clame its wrong "/ even in the old testiment which clames selling your daughter as a slave is right "/

Yes it does, as I stated above. Also, you keep referring to this point about selling your daughter into slavery, just because something isn't socially acceptable now doesn't mean that it doesn't count as religious text any more.

[Mentor]

They may not be real to you, but to whoever sees them they are very real. Who's to say that "tricks of the mind" are not actually alterations to reality? Belief is a big thing that can alter perception of reality - any hypnotist can tell you that.
I know but someones perseption of reality is based on relaity, not the other way around, reality is unchanged.
Becuse you belive somthing doesnt mean that thing is real, only your quite deluded...



Congratulations on completely missing my point. Omnipotency means that you can do anything, no matter how many paradoxes it crosses, no matter how much logic it craps on.
No it doesnt, it means all powerful...

There's no way to imagine a 3-sided square, like you said, because we'd know it to be a triangle, but omnipotency would allow such a thing to still be a square.
Square is a consept, The name square can be altered, the consept cant. its a priori. You can clame its so, but it can never be so, since the consept is relative to us, and hence are own understandings of the consept are what assign it the word by which it is refered, so god could make it so we call 3 sided shapes sqaures, but he could never make a 3 sided shape meet the consept of a square, he could make people belive it did, but it still would not.


It's beyond understanding, beyond anything that you or I could possibly be taught. Omnipotency therefore is an argument which cannot be overcome.
Actaly thats free choise, and its quite easy overcome, as ive shown 3 times now...



The Bible is supposedly the word of God, written by prophets who scribed God's message. Whether you believe that or not is irrelevent, the point is that the Bible clearly states that a man "laying" with another man is a sin. I really couldn't care less who agrees with that or not, I personally don't care who you do or where you stick it, but trying to argue that the Bible doesn't say something when it does is really quite pointless.
God wrote 10 commandments, not the bible.
And it doesnt cleary state that? ainchent hebrew is highly context sencetive most words can be read in many many diffent ways. makeing the entire text highly ambuguios. And that still has nothing to do with homosexualty, thats about haveing sex.. or at least thats how its commonly interpited.

The same part also cleary says your going to hell if you miss your weekly animal sacrivise, or if you fail to stone crimals to death, as well as alot of helpful advice on selling slaves, or your daughter for that matter...



Yes it does, as I stated above. Also, you keep referring to this point about selling your daughter into slavery, just because something isn't socially acceptable now doesn't mean that it doesn't count as religious text any more.
So you support selling children as slaves? o.0 Even though the new testiment contrasdictis this compleaty...
If you think slavery is accepatble behavior i worry for you...

[Nightrose]

why have there been loads of posts about god and sins recntly and yes i think it is seen as a sin

[Virgin Mary]

God is more or less something that cannot be overcome. Because God is omnipotent, omniscient and omnipresent he can basically defy anything. He created logic (or more so that logic is a result of his creation) therefore he can defy logic.

[Mentor]

why have there been loads of posts about god and sins recntly and yes i think it is seen as a sin
Sin is somthing objectionable by a deity, if god dont exist, Sins dont ether "/

plus most the anti gay stuff in the bible is umbiguos, out of context and crap "/


God is more or less something that cannot be overcome. Because God is omnipotent, omniscient and omnipresent he can basically defy anything. He created logic (or more so that logic is a result of his creation) therefore he can defy logic.
Could god make it so you had never existed. Since your existing now thats immposible, since althogh he can make you stop existing, you have existed for this time, so dispite any power its compleaty immposible for it to be so that you had never existed "/ it may be as if you had never existed, but god would know you had by his action meaning the fact could not be changed.

[Craig]

why have there been loads of posts about god and sins recntly and yes i think it is seen as a sin
Thats rather an irrelevant question,you could equally say 'Why have their been so many Music posts'.

[Virgin Mary]

Could god make it so you had never existed. Since your existing now thats immposible, since althogh he can make you stop existing, you have existed for this time, so dispite any power its compleaty immposible for it to be so that you had never existed "/ it may be as if you had never existed, but god would know you had by his action meaning the fact could not be changed.
That's a good point, but despite the fact God knowing I existed, he could remove all traces of my existence and I technically wouldn't have existed. I would basically be something in his imagination then, like if I just thought up a non-existent imaginary person, I have them in my mind but it doesn't mean they exist.

[Craig]

That's a good point, but despite the fact God knowing I existed, he could remove all traces of my existence and I technically wouldn't have existed. I would basically be something in his imagination then, like if I just thought up a non-existent imaginary person, I have them in my mind but it doesn't mean they exist.
But you are a real person =/

[Mentor]

That's a good point, but despite the fact God knowing I existed, he could remove all traces of my existence and I technically wouldn't have existed. I would basically be something in his imagination then, like if I just thought up a non-existent imaginary person, I have them in my mind but it doesn't mean they exist.
No god knows you existed, and even if he didnt, the fact remains that you still would have existed?
Then again, theres nothing to say there is a real existance and all that is, is simply not gods imagaintion to start with? if that were so then imagaintion would be what is real so the point remainds, you cannot get around it "/

[FlyingJesus]

No it doesnt, it means all powerful...

Yes, and an all-powerful being can do anything.


Square is a consept, The name square can be altered, the consept cant. its a priori. You can clame its so, but it can never be so, since the consept is relative to us, and hence are own understandings of the consept are what assign it the word by which it is refered, so god could make it so we call 3 sided shapes sqaures, but he could never make a 3 sided shape meet the consept of a square, he could make people belive it did, but it still would not.

Actaly thats free choise, and its quite easy overcome, as ive shown 3 times now...

No, you're still not getting it. You're trying to prove your point using logic and human knowledge, which doesn't cover omnipotency. Concepts, logic, knowledge, laws of science, reality, all of these can be overcome by an omnipotent being. I'm not saying that God exists because of this, simply that if there was an omnipotent deity, there would be nothing that He couldn't do - including the "impossible".


The same part also cleary says your going to hell if you miss your weekly animal sacrivise, or if you fail to stone crimals to death, as well as alot of helpful advice on selling slaves, or your daughter for that matter...

So you support selling children as slaves? o.0 Even though the new testiment contrasdictis this compleaty...
If you think slavery is accepatble behavior i worry for you...

I don't support it, no, but I believe that if one is to follow a religion (which I don't) then one should follow it to the last detail. Every other religion does so, but Judaism and Christianity seem to have slacked rather a lot, scrapping certain parts of their holy scripts and even twisting meanings so that they can do as they please. As a side note, I was always of the opinion that in the Old Testament they were in the habit of selling their children as servants rather than slaves, but nonetheless there are Biblical laws about how one should treat a slave fairly, and slavery in those times was not the same horrific practise that we know it to be (or at least, it wasn't until the Egyptians took hold).

[Craig]

Yes, and an all-powerful being can do anything.

Even paradoxes?

[Mentor]

Yes, and an all-powerful being can do anything.
Can he create something more powerful than himself?
And its still not anything


No, you're still not getting it. You're trying to prove your point using logic and human knowledge, which doesn't cover omnipotency. Concepts, logic, knowledge, laws of science, reality, all of these can be overcome by an omnipotent being. I'm not saying that God exists because of this, simply that if there was an omnipotent deity, there would be nothing that He couldn't do - including the "impossible".
Rationalise it then, You cant, Impossible is impossible even to god "/ human understanding has limits, but the rationlisation comes before that "/

Read the mediation one of descaretes for a nice lenghthy very persises and well construycted prooof that logic holds up even to god.

Even when its not actaly neeeded since got being benevlent would NEVER interonaly dellude us anyway...





I don't support it, no, but I believe that if one is to follow a religion (which I don't) then one should follow it to the last detail. Every other religion does so, but Judaism and Christianity seem to have slacked rather a lot, scrapping certain parts of their holy scripts and even twisting meanings so that they can do as they please. As a side note, I was always of the opinion that in the Old Testament they were in the habit of selling their children as servants rather than slaves, but nonetheless there are Biblical laws about how one should treat a slave fairly, and slavery in those times was not the same horrific practise that we know it to be (or at least, it wasn't until the Egyptians took hold).
Hard to do when the bible contradicts itself, Christanty has both "an eye for an eye" and "turn the other cheek in" it. Which one are people supposed to be following...

[Virgin Mary]

Even paradoxes?
If God created all that there is now, then God created logic and order, therefore I think God should be able to bend the rules of something he created.

[Mentor]

If God created all that there is now, then God created logic and order, therefore I think God should be able to bend the rules of something he created.
Take away logic the consept of god ceases to exist? so god cant exist if he defiys paradox's anyway...

[Virgin Mary]

Take away logic the consept of god ceases to exist? so god cant exist if he defiys paradox's anyway...
The logic that applies to us won't apply to him.

[Mentor]

The logic that applies to us won't apply to him.
Then god isnt omnipitant or omnicient.
We understand these consepts rationaly, If rationality is said to be false then we dont know god at all, hence we cannot judge if hes all powerful or benevolent or anything? hence god cant do anything or have any attribute since they would have to be known logicaly, without logic god cannot exist "/

[Virgin Mary]

Then god isnt omnipitant or omnicient.
We understand these consepts rationaly, If rationality is said to be false then we dont know god at all, hence we cannot judge if hes all powerful or benevolent or anything? hence god cant do anything or have any attribute since they would have to be known logicaly, without logic god cannot exist "/
That is probably one of the reasons we can't explain God well, we can only explain him using our logic and knowledge, but because he defies both of these we find it hard to explain such a being.

[Mentor]

That is probably one of the reasons we can't explain God well, we can only explain him using our logic and knowledge, but because he defies both of these we find it hard to explain such a being.
But as god is BENEVOLENT. God WOULD NOT deceave us. Hence logic must be correct. If its not god would be evil. And that also means the diety in question is not god "/

[Virgin Mary]

But as god is BENEVOLENT. God WOULD NOT deceave us. Hence logic must be correct. If its not god would be evil. And that also means the diety in question is not god "/
God doesn't stop us from learning things for ourselves, logic now is much different to what it was about 200 years ago.

[FlyingJesus]

Even paradoxes?

Yes, even paradoxes, which is what I've been trying to explain for a few pages of this thread now.


Can he create something more powerful than himself?
And its still not anything

All-powerful. Indicating that such a being has the power to do... oh yes, anything.


Rationalise it then, You cant, Impossible is impossible even to god "/ human understanding has limits, but the rationlisation comes before that "/

As above, dearie. Impossible is not impossible to a being that is omnipotent.


Hard to do when the bible contradicts itself, Christanty has both "an eye for an eye" and "turn the other cheek in" it. Which one are people supposed to be following...

Hence why I wrote "Judaism/Christianity". Jews only follow the Old Testament (or should) and so by their heritage should be placing animals for sacrifice every Saturday, and should have the right (but not obligation) to sell their children into slavery/servanthood. Christians follow the teachings of Jesus in the New Testament, and Jesus brings the "new covenant", which is the purging of all human sins to make way for a more caring world and a benevolent God. I personally view Christianity as a way for non-Jews (gentiles) to work with Jewish law but with less restrictions.

[Mit]

Some people believe god is the answer to questions humans don't know the answer to, a fear of the unknown kinda thing.

[SHADYWARRIOR]

Thanks for whoever gave me a good rep, although judging by the comment it was probably supposed to be a bad one :p