*DEBATE* Should Muslim women be allowed to wear veils that show just their eyes?

[Nixt]

Should Muslim women be allowed to wear veils that reveal just their eyes in public places?

Thankyou to Sentrax for suggesting this debate!


Recently, Cabinet Minister Jack Straw said that he would prefer Muslim women not to wear the veils that cover all but their eyes. He said that the veils encouraged racism and made communication problems within communities far more difficult.
His comments came after he began to ask Muslim women who visited his Blackburn constituency surgeries to remove their veils.
Jack Straw's comments have sparked much debate in the world of politics, so what do YOU think? Should Muslim women remove these veils? And if so why? Get debating!

Source: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/5411954.stm
Why do Muslim women wear veils: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/5411320.stm

PLEASE NOTE: Absolutely no racism will be tolerated in this thread, before posting in this thread, read the Debates Forum Rules, which can be located here (http://www.habboxforum.com/showthread.php?t=125783). The debate will end on the 17th October 2006.

[poll]

no i dont i saw a muslim women with veil driving and she reversed into a car because she couldnt see and she didnt even care danger to other citizens ;]

[James!]

No, it's stupid.. we're in England not middle-east, they should follow our way of life. :)

[dirrty]

They can wear whatever they want. Some women wear SHORT skirts and i dont see the government saying they are exposing to much there do they?

My RE teacher told me women wearing veils are nothing to do with religion, its just that their husbands want them to dress like that. She could be wrong but meh!


No, it's stupid.. we're in England not middle-east, they should follow our way of life. :)

So if anyone from england went to the middle-east, we should follow their way of life all the time?

[HELENizSEXYaye?]

No, it's stupid.. we're in England not middle-east, they should follow our way of life. :)

What he said.
If they're going to come here to live they should be made to live the way people here do.
they make other people feel uncomfortable, and they're less likely to get racist abuse anyway, as it'd be harded to spot that they were muslim.
Muslim's would be less seperate from other people.

If they wanted people to know they were muslim, they could find some more discreet way of showing it, like christians wear a cross.

[ReviewDude]

His comment was based ont hose he was talking to in his surgery. He said, quite rightly, that 90% of communication doesn't come from words, so he asked politely for them to remove their veils.

The idea of veils all stemmed from a passage in the Quar'an where a woman, accompanied by Mohammad, wore a veil when travelling. This was because she lived in the desert and didn't want sand in her eyes.

Having lived in Asia for a long time, you get used to these, but they do look very out of place. It's completely unfair to ask them to remove them entirely (and that was never the case), however in our culture wearing the face mask parts is a tad excessive. No-where is it written they must, and a headscarf is enough to follow the rules.

So yes, they should be allowed to wear them, but I personally object to them and, if I were in Straw's position, I would have done the same thing in face-to-face meetings.

[Undesirable]

I'm far from racist. However, this is all beyond a joke. They blew all this completely outta proportion and cried racism. He asked, if they'd remove it when they spoke to him, he did NOT force them too, this is just the same as, walking into shops, you've to remove your hoodie, helmet, hat or whatever. Why must they cry racism at every single little thing? As i said at the start, i'm not racist, i'd never start a fight or anything, however, we shouldn't feel that we have to watch what we say,do, act or whatever in our own damn country. Insurance policies on homes etc are expected to rise within the next little while, if you live next to Muslim communities - now fair enough this is slightly unfair, but why should we have to be the ones paying all this money?? When it's our own country that we should be able to live in without worry and having to pay all this extra money. I never had a problem, but if things carry on the way they are.. what kinda world are we gonna be living in?

[HELENizSEXYaye?]

I'm far from racist. However, this is all beyond a joke. They blew all this completely outta proportion and cried racism. He asked, if they'd remove it when they spoke to him, he did NOT force them too, this is just the same as, walking into shops, you've to remove your hoodie, helmet, hat or whatever. Why must they cry racism at every single little thing? As i said at the start, i'm not racist, i'd never start a fight or anything, however, we shouldn't feel that we have to watch what we say,do, act or whatever in our own damn country. Insurance policies on homes etc are expected to rise within the next little while, if you live next to Muslim communities - now fair enough this is slightly unfair, but why should we have to be the ones paying all this money?? When it's our own country that we should be able to live in without worry and having to pay all this extra money. I never had a problem, but if things carry on the way they are.. what kinda world are we gonna be living in?

I hate how they cry racism at everything too, it's so stupid.

When one News Reporter's cross was mentioned in a paper, she said she'd take it off if it bothered people, but when muslims are asked to do something like that they kick up hell.

[Callum.]

No, if we went to the middle-east, and took off all our clothes accept underwear, they wouldn't be happy. So same goes with them in out country accept for being clothed.

[Undesirable]

No, if we went to the middle-east, and took off all our clothes accept underwear, they wouldn't be happy. So same goes with them in out country accept for being clothed.


I'm not entirely sure what your trying to say?

[ReviewDude]

I'm not entirely sure what your trying to say?


No, if we went to the middle-east, and took off all our clothes accept underwear, they wouldn't be happy. So same goes with them in out country accept for being clothed.

I think his point is that their idea of 'fully-clothed' is different to ours. Whilst a mini-skirt and a tank top are acceptable in our country, it isn't in theirs. In the same way, in theirs a woman without a headscarf is the eqivalent of being in your underwear in ours.

EDIT: Added original quote.

[entor M]

Race, religion etc. have **** all to do with this issue, its about simple freedoms. This is a supposedly FREE contary, which means people are FREE to where head veils, or not to ware them at there own descression. Its THERE choise.
Are culture is about muli culturism, and more over freedoms. If we force people NOT to ware them, we would be just as bad as those in muslim contarys that force woment TO ware them.

So its THERE choise, no one elses what they ware and what they dont ware.

[RedStratocas]

Allowed? Of corse it should be allowed. Whatever their religion wants them to do or whatever they want to wear, religion aside, should be allowed. I dont see how it's hurting anyone.

People who are racist twards women who wear them now, wont be any less racist if a law is passed that makes it illegal. Their view on islam would stay the same.

[FlyingJesus]

If we were to follow the idea of England being a free country then yes, they should be allowed. However, there's always the case of us being a CofE country (despite many many people not being Christian at all) and as such our customs arguably should be followed, just like we would have to follow Muslim customs if we visited a Muslim country (my dad went to Saudi on a business trip and wasn't allowed to take in any "dirty" meats, alcohol or newspapers - the newspapers all had pictures of women showing at least some part of their body, even if it was just an arm).

I personally don't see how forcing them not to wear their veils will actually help anti-racism, as it means they have to betray their religion just to live in this country, but heck I'm not a nice guy, I'm a realist, and in the real world there shouldn't be such Liberal freedom as to allow total freedom. Someone mentioned how in some shops you're asked to remove hoods or caps for identification purposes, the fact that Muslim women by religion wear veils could make a loophole for real criminals who could do their work in Muslim disguise and not be identified ever.

[Axel]

Well at least people can't see if you have a runny nose.

[FlyingJesus]

Well at least people can't see if you have a runny nose.

Yeah I retract my comment, runny noses ain't pretty.

[-:Undertaker:-]

If you go to a Muslim Country then you are forced to wear a Veil, It should be the same here, If a Muslim wants to wear a veil then it should wear it in private not in public, England is a Christian Country and has been for Hundreds of years and were happy with it the way it stands by Christian Laws, lets not change it to suit Muslims.

[Seacat]

We can't stop people wearing their head veils in the UK, it's a free country. However, as Jack Straw rightly said, the majority of communication comes from eye contact, facial expressions e.t.c so it's just polite and expected to remove anything covering up your face when speaking to people.

My understanding of it is (correct me if I'm wrong) that the reason they wear these 'veils' is so that other men can't look at them because of their religion. If that's the case then there isn't really alot that can be done, passing a Law that states you must remove your veil when talking to people isn't practical.

However in certain circumstances women should be ordered to remove their veils regardless of their religion, human rights e.t.c. An example is the case at Leeds & Bradford airport the other day, where a Sun Reporter managed to get through Airport security, and even onto the plane without been asked to remove her veil. I'm not sure whether this was a matter of security staff not wanting to offend the person, or simply because they were useless, but if it's the first then serious questions need to be asked. If it was a matter of human rights then the human 'right to life' must be considered for other passengers on board, as although this time the Reporter wasn't a terrorist, next time it could be.

[BL!NKEY]

I did a final project on muslim women last year.

Some think Hijab is liberating and makes then seem like less of an object to other men.

I think it should be their choice.

[YellowParasol]

If you go to a Muslim Country then you are forced to wear a Veil, It should be the same here, If a Muslim wants to wear a veil then it should wear it in private not in public, England is a Christian Country and has been for Hundreds of years and were happy with it the way it stands by Christian Laws, lets not change it to suit Muslims.

Sorry for a bit of a pointless post but i couldn't have put it better myself

[mmhmm.]

No, it's stupid.. we're in England not middle-east, they should follow our way of life. :)
its part of their culture, it part of their religion.. its they're way of life, and even if they live in England, they shouldnt have to change.

yes, i know in muslim countries like saudi arabia they want all women to cover their head, but do you really want to be the same way?

[BL!NKEY]

If you go to a Muslim Country then you are forced to wear a Veil


Sorry for a bit of a pointless post but i couldn't have put it better myself

You are not forced to wear a veil.

Most women do it because of tradition or because they think it is liberating. Some do it because they are forced to but that doesn't mean that a tourist is forced to wear a veil if they are vacationing.

[Lucky]

they should be allowed to wear it in public, as its there religion, its like us not being able to wear a chain and a cross or whatever, its part of there religion, they're not doing no harm walking around in the public and they're no different just because you can only see there eyes.

[Acidulantes]

Someone said that they kick up hell when we tell them off for something whereas christians take it nicely, its like what happened a few weeks ago when the pope recalled ancient scriptures that said muslims only bring hate and fear and then muslims go and retaliate trying to prove that wrong killing a nun! Definately one of the most if not the most controversial, hypocritical, silly religions/groups w/e ever. On another debate on this, somone said how they dont have to take off their veils when they go into banks, but we have to take a motorcycle helmet off... somoene else said its like talking to somoene behind a brick wall, an yea it does promote racism...

Edit, I think it would be better if the only place you could express your religion is in a private place, or your holy place. and yea, theyre in our country... they should follow our rules. Muslims kill christians all the time in predominantely muslim countries, and we're asking them something so small... makes me sick sometimes it really does.

[Herman]

If you go to a Muslim Country then you are forced to wear a Veil, It should be the same here, If a Muslim wants to wear a veil then it should wear it in private not in public, England is a Christian Country and has been for Hundreds of years and were happy with it the way it stands by Christian Laws, lets not change it to suit Muslims.
The world is changing, I don't think England will stay a christian country forever.


Muslims kill christians all the time in predominantely muslim countries
Christians have killed more people throughout history.


theyre in our country... they should follow our rules.
I don't believe there was a rule which says muslim women can't wear a veil?

I believe muslim women should have the right to wear a veil. It's part of their religious practice. If you force them not to wear it, it's just like forcing a christian not to wear a cross, which seems abit unfair to me.

[Icarus]

Personally I agree with Jack Straw, If I had to talk to someone wearing a veil with only their eyes showing I would not feel comfortable as it could be anyone under there. Part of the religion is that women should cover their hair but at no point does it say cver your whole face only showing your eyes I think this is a bad mis-interpretation. and potentionally a damaging one.

[clarissa !!]

The world is changing, I don't think England will stay a christian country forever.

that worrys me.. what religion is it gonna turn into? :|



I believe muslim women should have the right to wear a veil. It's part of their religious practice. If you force them not to wear it, it's just like forcing a christian not to wear a cross, which seems abit unfair to me.
at my old school, christians wern't alowed to wear a cross and chain but muslims were allowed to wear a headscarf.

[Icarus]

that worrys me.. what religion is it gonna turn into? :|
I don't think he means it will change to a different instead I think he means that it will very soon become a country of mixed religions and there will be no-way to say we are this religion
Please correct me if i am wrong

[clarissa !!]

I don't think he means it will change to a different instead I think he means that it will very soon become a country of mixed religions and there will be no-way to say we are this religion
Please correct me if i am wrong

ok, fair enough.

Nixt (Forum Moderator) Please only post constructive comments on topic in the Debates Forum.

[Acidulantes]

Christians have killed more people throughout history.

Yea Im actually starting to think you might be on drugs...
If someone asked me not to wear my cross around my neck because it made them feel uncomfortable I wouldnt mind... I dont have to wear a cross around my neck to show Im a christian...

[Herman]

I don't think he means it will change to a different instead I think he means that it will very soon become a country of mixed religions and there will be no-way to say we are this religion
Please correct me if i am wrong

Exactly. I don't believe it will stay a christian country forever, but one with many different religions.


Yea Im actually starting to think you might be on drugs...
If someone asked me not to wear my cross around my neck because it made them feel uncomfortable I wouldnt mind... I dont have to wear a cross around my neck to show Im a christian...
On drugs? Oh how immature.

Okay let's put it this way. You go to a muslim country and the law forbids you from wearing a cross. Would you like it? Would you? It goes the same for a muslim woman who goes to a christian country and finds out that she isn't allowed to wear a veil. Put yourself in their shoes.

[Acidulantes]

First of all, your being immatture saying christians haved kill more people throughout history... and like I said in the post you quoted 'I would not mind'

Do you just read one line then reply?

[Ostinato]

Okay first of all - I'm a strong believer of freedom - therefore I disagree with the aspect of 'this is a majority Catholic country' and that 'they should not be worn in public'.

However, I do agree that the veil does restrict communication between two people, as it prevents you from being able to see the body language and re-actions you would of that of someone without a veil. Therefore I feel it's perhaps a bit anti-social, and it's all well and good wearing one for your own personal beliefs etc. but I think they could perhaps be classed as a bit inappropiate in a group discussion/conversation etc.

If I was to cover my whole face up with a plastic bag, or a hat or something but leave my eyes able to see - then people would perhaps class me as anti-social, as I am preventing people from getting to see the important aspects which are rellevant for an effective discussion with another human being.

I think this is a bit of a mixed debate, as I do understand both arguments and have strong beliefs for each of them, but in the long run I think it would be more beneficial if the veil wasn't worn during discussions.

However, I would like to emphasise that this in no way changes my opinion on Muslim's, as I do have several friends who are of this religion, and are great people! :)

[Axel]

Free Country!

[MrBlown]

Of course they should be alowed it's there religion, let them do what they want.

Mr Blown.

[Y!]

If we go to their country we have to live our lives by THEIR rules. If they come here then they should follow ours. If you can't see someone's face then they must have something to hide, also with terrorist threats how can police be sure they aren't suspects when we can't see them ;/ If I dressed as a ninja people would think I was up to no good. The same applies for them.

Also for everyone who's saying the veil is relgion it is but it's also the LAW for woman to wear them in those countries, the only reason they still wear them here is because it's been drummed into them. I feel sorry for people who's relgions are based on a leader of the countries interpration. How's this for an excuse;
Jim: Why did you kill him James?
James: God told me too.

[Bomb-Head]

I agree that if they are in our country, they should live our way of live.

And before someone says it, yes: if we went to THEIR country then we should live THIER way of life.

[-:Undertaker:-]

The world is changing, I don't think England will stay a christian country forever.


Christians have killed more people throughout history.


I don't believe there was a rule which says muslim women can't wear a veil?

I believe muslim women should have the right to wear a veil. It's part of their religious practice. If you force them not to wear it, it's just like forcing a christian not to wear a cross, which seems abit unfair to me.




Our country is changing because we let so many Muslims/Immagrants in and its harming our society, Did you know that our Government PAYS/IS GOING TO - Foreign prisoners in Bristish jails to go back to their own country? Christians in this country sometimes are asked to not wear a Cross while if you asked a Muslim not to wear a Head veil then all hell would break loose. I have to say that I agree with a Labour Politican (Jack Straw) which is very rare.

[alexxxxx]

I believe that it shou ld be discouraged, because it creates social divides between different people that I don't like. There are plenty of girls and my school that wear headdresses, but none have their whole face covered. I have no problem with it. Though I do think that women should not wear a full face one.

It shouldn't be banned. x]

Also, to the post above, some stuff in our society is just so ridiculous. Apparently we can't call a blackboard a blackboard, but we can call it a whiteboard. *** IS UP WITH THAT!? If we do anything towards muslims or hindus or whatever, we get called racists.

[Acidulantes]

I really dont care what you say about me for this, but they have technically 'invaded' our country trying to turn it into the one they ran away from...

I was talking to my mum about it and she said that she heard about a man in an office asking a lady who had loads of piglet from whinnie the pooh stuff on her desk, to get rid of it cos it was offensive to his religion (islam) because they see pigs as dirty animals...

and to the post above, thats more bordering on racism than stuff to do with religion...

The government needs to get its act together...

[MrBlown]

Chavs throwing stones is antisocial, I don't see you getting them to stop it?

MrBlown.

[DCeption]

I dont care do as the please. Many people in UK were hoodys which is only just revealing more, and its only a small majority of terrorists. So beasically yes they should be allowed to

[Sentrax]

Heh.. They actually listened to my idea! :P
Well, you know what I think, I think the veils are intimidating. That's in my opinion. :)

[-:Undertaker:-]

Chavs throwing stones is antisocial, I don't see you getting them to stop it?

MrBlown.



Chavs are differnet, We do tell chavs not to throw stones but their criminals not religous,If we told Muslims tommorow that we were banning Veils in public then the Good ones who WANT to be in our country wouldn't have a problem with it because they supposeidly ran away from torture etc in their own countrys so surely us asking them not to wear something in public wouldn't hurt them that much and the ones who riot can be thown out - If you don't like this Country - THEN LEAVE !


Also sorry for poor spellings - Im tired :P

[Acidulantes]

If you don't like this Country - THEN LEAVE !

HERE HERE

This guy for prime minister!!

[alexxxxx]

If you don't like this Country - THEN LEAVE ![/B]


Also sorry for poor spellings - Im tired :P

I agree, a bit.

[entor M]

I agree that if they are in our country, they should live our way of live.

And before someone says it, yes: if we went to THEIR country then we should live THIER way of life.
Are way of life is freedom of exspresion, freedom of choise, Aka we dont force people to do things. Its up to them if they want to ware a headscarf, just as its up to anyone else if they want to ware a hoody, cross round the neck, or anything else "/
If you start deniying these freedoms, where turning in to a dictatorship, insted of keeping the essents of britain, which is freedom.

[Undesirable]

Nobody has asked them to remove them permanantly, it's like a mark of respect, as i said previously.. motor cyclists take off their helmets when entering a building, why should muslim people be any damn different. They bug the hell outta me these days, simply because.. everythings racist, well sorry but it's our damn country, if you can't follow simple things, go home.

[scubadiva]

Nobody has asked them to remove them permanantly, it's like a mark of respect, as i said previously.. motor cyclists take off their helmets when entering a building, why should muslim people be any damn different. They bug the hell outta me these days, simply because.. everythings racist, well sorry but it's our damn country, if you can't follow simple things, go home.

Some of those comments were fairly inaccurate, such as motor cyclists taking off there helmets - motor cycling isn't a religion. I admit that I know very little on the subject of veils and what the rules or expectations of Muslim women wearing them are, but I'm pretty sure that it's something that some do, and we should respect them for it. Also, everybody seems to be telling them to get out of the country, but quite a few were born, and have always lived, in this country, even if there parents or grandparents or whatever haven't. I think that a very large number of the posts in this thread are either racist, or not entirely fair to the Muslim community in Britain. Let them wear what they want - they are British Citizens just like most of us, so they should be allowed to wear exactly what they want in Public in terms of veils.

[HELENizSEXYaye?]

The world is changing, I don't think England will stay a christian country forever.


Christians have killed more people throughout history.


I don't believe there was a rule which says muslim women can't wear a veil?

I believe muslim women should have the right to wear a veil. It's part of their religious practice. If you force them not to wear it, it's just like forcing a christian not to wear a cross, which seems abit unfair to me.

The UK probably will stay a christian country for a long time, something like 70% of the population class themselves as christian.

I somehow doubt christians have killed more people in history, and history isn't important, it's now that is, and i don't see christians blowing themselves up?

Nobody said there was a rule *******, that's what this whole thread is about.

And i doubt any christian would really mind all that much if someone asked them to take off their cross, whereas muslims kick up hell at the suggestion of removing their veil, screaming racism, as always.
they claim racism at every little thing and it's stupid.

And I think Britain is too good to people like muslims, if we moved to a muslim country, we would be expected to life the way they do, and it should be the same here.
if they're going to come into this country and claim benefits and stuff, they should have to live our way of life.

[mmhmm.]

Regarding people saying that England is a Christian country:
So what? That doesnt change anything. So are many other countries, like the USA. That doesnt mean just because you're a Christian country, you shouldnt allow other religions and their customs

[^.^]

No
1) Nowhere in the Quraan does it state that a veil should be worn
2) It can obscure vision while driving or anything else
3) It can be used as a form of hiding face from police if they are criminals
4) It encourages Racism
5) If this is allowed in such places as schools people could complain about not being able to wear hooded parts of hoodies in school ( this may not count for other schools but happens in mine :( )
6) If you have a problem with what you are not wanted to wear you can leave :) or go to prison.

[HELENizSEXYaye?]

Regarding people saying that England is a Christian country:
So what? That doesnt change anything. So are many other countries, like the USA. That doesnt mean just because you're a Christian country, you shouldnt allow other religions and their customs

Muslim countries make you follow their customs?
so why should it be different for them.


;2341082']No
1) Nowhere in the Quraan does it state that a veil should be worn
2) It can obscure vision while driving or anything else
3) It can be used as a form of hiding face from police if they are criminals
4) It encourages Racism
5) If this is allowed in such places as schools people could complain about not being able to wear hooded parts of hoodies in school ( this may not count for other schools but happens in mine :( )

what he said :]]

[-:Undertaker:-]

Regarding people saying that England is a Christian country:
So what? That doesnt change anything. So are many other countries, like the USA. That doesnt mean just because you're a Christian country, you shouldnt allow other religions and their customs


No one said Muslims shouldn't be allowed in this country, We're a Christian Country end of. If you anyone doesn't like our Country then get the hell out - Very simple!

Also someone made the point that Christians have killed more people in the past, Whether or not this is true it doesn't matter, If you look at the world today you will find that Christian Countrys are MUCH MORE civilised than Muslim Countrys, Muslim Countrys Stone people to death and torture them + Harbour Terrorists.

[mmhmm.]

No one said Muslims shouldn't be allowed in this country, We're a Christian Country end of. If you anyone doesn't like our Country then get the hell out - Very simple!

Also someone made the point that Christians have killed more people in the past, Whether or not this is true it doesn't matter, If you look at the world today you will find that Christian Countrys are MUCH MORE civilised than Muslim Countrys, Muslim Countrys Stone people to death and torture them + Harbour Terrorists.
when did i say that anyone said they shouldn't be allowed? it said they should be able to express their culture :rolleyes: read...

Muslim countries make you follow their customs?
so why should it be different for them.

so you want to be controlling like them? "oh well they're doing it so why shouldnt we?" are you supposed to be following what they're doing?

[HELENizSEXYaye?]

when did i say that anyone said they shouldn't be allowed? it said they should be able to express their culture :rolleyes: read...

why should they be?
i doubt christians or other religions would be allowed to express their culture in a muslim country.

like undertaker said, they shouldn't be allowed, and if they object to it that strongly, then they should leave.


so you want to be controlling like them? "oh well they're doing it so why shouldnt we?" are you supposed to be following what they're doing?

no.
but why should they get to force people into following muslim customs, and then kick up hell when somebody suggests removing their veil?

[mmhmm.]

why should they be?
i doubt christians or other religions would be allowed to express their culture in a muslim country.

like undertaker said, they shouldn't be allowed, and if they object to it that strongly, then they should leave.
i edited my last post to answer that.

[^.^]

and for people saying its a free country you can quote me on this "THEIR FREE TO LEAVE"

[HELENizSEXYaye?]

i edited my last post to answer that.

you didn't answer it, you asked another question, but yeah i editted too.


;2341154']and for people saying its a free country you can quote me on this "THEIR FREE TO LEAVE"

i agree on that one :)

[mmhmm.]

;2341154']and for people saying its a free country you can quote me on this "THEIR FREE TO LEAVE"
but what if they'd rather be there? they just want to wear a freakin piece of cloth people. its not that big of a deal.

[^.^]

If you can show me one religious peace of scripture where one of their profits says they must have a veil everywhere they go maybe i will say differently untill then no

[-:Undertaker:-]

when did i say that anyone said they shouldn't be allowed? it said they should be able to express their culture :rolleyes: read...

so you want to be controlling like them? "oh well they're doing it so why shouldnt we?" are you supposed to be following what they're doing?



They can Express their Culture either in their own Home or country, We have to follow their rules in their countrys so why should we differ?

[^.^]

They can Express their Culture either in their own Home or country, We have to follow their rules in their countrys so why should we differ?

i agree, if we brought in christian symbols around are necks that they didnt like dont you think they would try banning it?
they would most probably say it is offencive because it doesnt agree with their "god" or whatever they believe in.

[mmhmm.]

They can Express their Culture either in their own Home or country, We have to follow their rules in their countrys so why should we differ?
...
once again, you're just following them.
and can you please explain why it matters so much? just because they make you follow their rules, is that why you care so much?

[HELENizSEXYaye?]

but what if they'd rather be there? they just want to wear a freakin piece of cloth people. its not that big of a deal.

if it isn't a big deal, it shouldn't be a big deal to take it off.

[adidas™]

i dont think they should weer them.
if white/black people walked round with balaclavers (SP?) hoods up and all that, what would people have to say then. we wouldnt be able to walk in a shop like that.

[mmhmm.]

if it isn't a big deal, it shouldn't be a big deal to take it off.
no,
why is it such a big deal to you outside the religion?

[^.^]

no,
why is it such a big deal to you outside the religion?
why is it such a bid deal to them to outside law?

[-:Undertaker:-]

...
once again, you're just following them.
and can you please explain why it matters so much? just because they make you follow their rules, is that why you care so much?



Actually ive had my opinions for a long time, It matters so much because we get told to take ours off in their country and as someone else said If it doesn't matter so much, why do all the muslims go crazy about it? I also care so much because im sick to death of this country being sponged on with all this rubbish about "OMG YOUR RACIST BECAUSE YOU TOLD A MUSLIM TO TAKE THEIR VEIL OFF".

[mmhmm.]

Oh yeah I looked up some stuff and..

"Oh Prophet! Tell your wives and your daughters, and wives and daughters of the believers, to extend their outer garments around themselves, so that they would be distinguished and not molested. And God is All-Forgiving, All-Merciful".
(Qur'an, 33:59)
and the interpretation of this by a lot of followers is that women should be fully covered, including the face. it is not mandatory, but it is strongly recommended.

[Y!]

Here's an idea we ban all religions cause they're all false hope anyway and then everyone is equal.

[^.^]

their sure being distinguished now.... If their religion told them to jump off a bridge would they?

[-:Undertaker:-]

If its not compulsory then surely they won't mind taking them off..

Id like to see you survive for 1 day in somewere like Iran wearing western clothes on the Streets without something happing to you.

[mmhmm.]

If its not compulsory then surely they won't mind taking them off..

Id like to see you survive for 1 day in somewere like Iran wearing western clothes on the Streets without something happing to you.
but its strongly recommended
that means a lot to people who are serious about their religion in case you didnt know.

[^.^]

its strongly recomended its not MANDITORY, If they dont like our dress code maybe another country is for them.

[Acidulantes]

Anyone been to birmingham recently to see a santa in his grotto? dont think so... some muslims said to take it away because santa is a sign of christmas and christmas is not something they like... and now birmingham puts up 'festive lights' and sells 'festive cards'... and yet theres this road in coventry not to far from birmingham, where they have got up tonnes and tonnes of decorations saying happy diwali and all this rubbish... People are getting so annoyed because its not fair. Why should they be treated as VIP's when they snook into this country trying to find a house to live in because they didnt like it in asia or w/e and they heard they can get free money from the english (pushover) government... and keep the way of life they were running away from and we cant celebrate christmas openly which is something thats been celebrated in england for however many years...

[-:Undertaker:-]

but its strongly recommended
that means a lot to people who are serious about their religion in case you didnt know.


Yes I did know and if they don't like our rules so much and if they feel so pushed to wear their veils by a Book then they can go and live in a Muslim country.

[mmhmm.]

;2341317']its strongly recomended its not MANDITORY, If they dont like our dress code maybe another country is for them.
ok.. you didnt read what i said about strongly recommended being very important for people who are serious about their religion

strongly recommended for them is pretty much manditory in their eyes.

and not all muslims are like this btw.

edit: i didnt know people on this forum could be so insensitive about other people's beliefs.
i've stated what i think, and i dont have a problem with them coming to america if they want.
which isnt a muslim country

[^.^]

Anyone been to birmingham recently to see a santa in his grotto? dont think so... some muslims said to take it away because santa is a sign of christmas and christmas is not something they like... and now birmingham puts up 'festive lights' and sells 'festive cards'... and yet theres this road in coventry not to far from birmingham, where they have got up tonnes and tonnes of decorations saying happy diwali and all this rubbish... People are getting so annoyed because its not fair. Why should they be treated as VIP's when they snook into this country trying to find a house to live in because they didnt like it in asia or w/e and they heard they can get free money from the english (pushover) government... and keep the way of life they were running away from and we cant celebrate christmas openly which is something thats been celebrated in england for however many years...
Agreed although a bit off topic, I think if they dont like christian occasions they can go elsewhere we have the freedom to put up what we like in our country if it is "free" and if they dont like our freedom to express ourselves they can go back to their countries.

[mmhmm.]

Anyone been to birmingham recently to see a santa in his grotto? dont think so... some muslims said to take it away because santa is a sign of christmas and christmas is not something they like... and now birmingham puts up 'festive lights' and sells 'festive cards'... and yet theres this road in coventry not to far from birmingham, where they have got up tonnes and tonnes of decorations saying happy diwali and all this rubbish... People are getting so annoyed because its not fair. Why should they be treated as VIP's when they snook into this country trying to find a house to live in because they didnt like it in asia or w/e and they heard they can get free money from the english (pushover) government... and keep the way of life they were running away from and we cant celebrate christmas openly which is something thats been celebrated in england for however many years...
although i think they should be able to express themselves, i agree that christians should also be able to express themselves too.
so i agree with you there, you should be able to call it what you want
same thing happening over here, but more for people without religion (atheists)

[alexxxxx]

It's true.

I think that people should be discouraged about wearing the veil. At least in public (state) schools. It's to stop people from bullying each other.

I just think something as prominant as a full body veil is too graphic about other's differences.

[Acidulantes]

why what do atheists want that muslims are taking away from them?

[DarkSound]

they were banned from my school last year and like 2 people left because of it

[^.^]

athiests were banned from school?

[mmhmm.]

;2341380']athiests were banned from school?
um.. they cant do that.. public schools are supposed to be separate from religion

[FlyingJesus]

First off I'd like to make the point that I do not endorse the idea of total freedom. All freedom does is allow people to make wrong decisions. If we want a country that works effectively we need to really put our foot down on many issues, and one such issue is immigration and religion.

We are a predominantly Church of England country - that doesn't mean that most people here follow CoE teachings, just that it is the "official" religion of Britain. Hence, we should not be forced to stop any Christian festivals (as was said to be happening in the Birmingham area) just because immigrants don't like it. Excuse me if this sounds racist, but this is not their country.

We should not allow Britain to turn into the stop-off point for anyone who has decided they don't like the people in charge of their own country. If they choose to leave, they should accept our ways of life and not cause a fuss about things. Asylum seekers and other immigrants are technically "guests" in our country, and laws don't change around English tourists in other countries so why should we adapt?

You can say "they should have the freedom to wear what they want" all you like, but this is not just a matter of fashion, it's one of safety. If someone is walking around with nothing but their eyes showing, they can commit any number of crimes and not be traced. As someone else in this thread said, it's like having people wander round in balaclavas. Young people are often asked to remove hoods or caps in shops, so why should we not ask Muslims to remove their headwear if it is in the interest of public safety?

[BL!NKEY]

The reasons the Muslims move out of their countries is usually because of the freedoms in Britain and the USA. They see the freedoms and want to enjoy them too.

I don't think it is a big enough that they are wearing the veils. I think talking on a cell phone while eating breakfast and driving is more hazardous then wearing a veil.

They want to wear the veil and think it is more liberating to them. They feel if they show all of their skin they are just an object in the eyes of men. If they don't show their body then their body is more secrete and kept for the family.

You wouldn't tell an old lady to walk around the street in a short skirt and a see through top. It is embarrassing to them because they have different morals and traditions. The same with a Muslim women wearing a Hijab. They feel that they need to because of their traditions and morals.

If it was something really serious like if they were at court and needed to speak clearly they should take off their Hijab, but in normal life I don't see a need to make them do anything.

Those of you saying that they make you take off your crosses in Muslim countries so they should take their hijab off in your country are almost as people who say because the muslims flew planes into buildings with innocent people, we should purposely bomb innocent people in their countries.

[Acidulantes]

^^^ Bang on.

[HELENizSEXYaye?]

The reasons the Muslims move out of their countries is usually because of the freedoms in Britain and the USA. They see the freedoms and want to enjoy them too.

I don't think it is a big enough that they are wearing the veils. I think talking on a cell phone while eating breakfast and driving is more hazardous then wearing a veil.

They want to wear the veil and think it is more liberating to them. They feel if they show all of their skin they are just an object in the eyes of men. If they don't show their body then their body is more secrete and kept for the family.

You wouldn't tell an old lady to walk around the street in a short skirt and a see through top. It is embarrassing to them because they have different morals and traditions. The same with a Muslim women wearing a Hijab. They feel that they need to because of their traditions and morals.

If it was something really serious like if they were at court and needed to speak clearly they should take off their Hijab, but in normal life I don't see a need to make them do anything.

Those of you saying that they make you take off your crosses in Muslim countries so they should take their hijab off in your country are almost as people who say because the muslims flew planes into buildings with innocent people, we should purposely bomb innocent people in their countries.


well there shouldn't be so much freedom here, that's why this country has too many immigrants, and gives out millions in benefits.
there should be conditions to allow someone to stay in a country, and i think one of them should be that they should follow the way of life that is normal in the country.
it is completely stupid to compare asking someone to take off a veil, to bombing a country. All they're being asked to do, is take off an item of clothing. The veils are impractical, they make it hard for them to see, people can't see their expressions, and they could be hiding anything in them, it isn't fair that they get away with wearing one when some places won't let kids wearing hoodies in.
And you're saying the veil isn't a serious issue, so why is it such a big deal to ask them to take it off???
They complain about racism all the time but get more special treatment than any other religion? It's not their country, so why should it be changed to suit them. If they don't like the way it is, they shouldn't come.
end off :)

[BL!NKEY]

well there shouldn't be so much freedom here, that's why this country has too many immigrants, and gives out millions in benefits.

We are not talking about illegal immigrants in your country. This is just about Muslims who live in Britain in general. They could be third generation British and still wear the Hijabs. You think only you should have freedom and they shouldn't in your country?



there should be conditions to allow someone to stay in a country, and i think one of them should be that they should follow the way of life that is normal in the country.

Still think that freedom is one of the things that people leave their Muslim countries for and they should get the freedom to wear Hijabs.




it is completely stupid to compare asking someone to take off a veil, to bombing a country. All they're being asked to do, is take off an item of clothing. The veils are impractical, they make it hard for them to see, people can't see their expressions, and they could be hiding anything in them, it isn't fair that they get away with wearing one when some places won't let kids wearing hoodies in.

The reason I compared the veil to the bombing is because the people who enforce strong rules in the Muslim countries are not the one who wear the Hijabs in Britain. The people who bomb buildings are not the ones we would bomb if we bombed back innocent people in Muslim countries.

You think the veils are impractical but you don't see it from their point of view. They think it is liberating and feel naked with out them. Muslims are not cited for wearing veils when kids are for wearing hoodies because the Muslims are doing it for religious and reasons that actually mean something to them. Most kids are asked to take off their hoodies because they have headphones underneath and are showing disrespect by listening to music when being talked to.



And you're saying the veil isn't a serious issue, so why is it such a big deal to ask them to take it off???
They complain about racism all the time but get more special treatment than any other religion? It's not their country, so why should it be changed to suit them. If they don't like the way it is, they shouldn't come.
end off

I said it is not a big deal to the people who don't wear them. It is a big deal to them so i don't see why they need to take them off. They feel 10X more passionate about this issue then we do so I don't think we should make them not wear veils because we feel we cant see their facial expressions. They complain about racism because people are racist to them. The country isn't changed to suit them. It would be changed if a new law was made. The country has freedoms and that is why they go there.

[HELENizSEXYaye?]

We are not talking about illegal immigrants in your country. This is just about Muslims who live in Britain in general. They could be third generation British and still wear the Hijabs. You think only you should have freedom and they shouldn't in your country?

I never said they were illegal?
Well the third generation muslims should have to accept that because their granparents moved to the UK, they have to live like normal people in the UK.
If they don't like it, leave.
No I don't think they shouldn't have any freedom, but they have too much right now.


Still think that freedom is one of the things that people leave their Muslim countries for and they should get the freedom to wear Hijabs.

I don't see why they should be allowed to leave their countries and try to turn this one into a Muslim country. If we moved there, we would have to live like Muslims, so why is it different for them?


The reason I compared the veil to the bombing is because the people who enforce strong rules in the Muslim countries are not the one who wear the Hijabs in Britain. The people who bomb buildings are not the ones we would bomb if we bombed back innocent people in Muslim countries.

Bombing has nothing to do with any of this?


You think the veils are impractical but you don't see it from their point of view. They think it is liberating and feel naked with out them. Muslims are not cited for wearing veils when kids are for wearing hoodies because the Muslims are doing it for religious and reasons that actually mean something to them. Most kids are asked to take off their hoodies because they have headphones underneath and are showing disrespect by listening to music when being talked to.

They would get used to it, and it isn't just impractical from my point of veiw, it's a fact.
I think it's just as disrespectful to have your face covered when talking to someone as having music playing, the person you're talking to can't see your reactions to what they're saying.


I said it is not a big deal to the people who don't wear them. It is a big deal to them so i don't see why they need to take them off. They feel 10X more passionate about this issue then we do so I don't think we should make them not wear veils because we feel we cant see their facial expressions. They complain about racism because people are racist to them. The country isn't changed to suit them. It would be changed if a new law was made. The country has freedoms and that is why they go there.


How do you know how passionate non-Muslims feel about the issue?
I don't think they should be allowed to wear veils, for more reasons than not just being able to see their facial expressions. People are racist to them, because of the way they seperate themselves. If they didn't wear veils, and intergrated more, i don't think there would be as much racism. People wouldn't instantly brand them as a muslim, since they wouldn't be wearing a veil. And they do cry racism over the slightest little thing.
They TRY to change the country to suit them, and no it wouldn't be changed if the law was made, the law would be trying to keep the country the way it is, a Christian country. It's not a muslim country, and never will be, so why do muslims act like it is?

[BL!NKEY]

I never said they were illegal?
Well the third generation muslims should have to accept that because their granparents moved to the UK, they have to live like normal people in the UK.
If they don't like it, leave.
No I don't think they shouldn't have any freedom, but they have too much right now.

Normal for them is wearing veils. If they have lived their whole life with veils is is weird and uncomfortable for them to just take them off. You dont think the Muslims should be treated as well as the British in the UK? Are they less of a human then the White Christians?


I don't see why they should be allowed to leave their countries and try to turn this one into a Muslim country. If we moved there, we would have to live like Muslims, so why is it different for them?

I will say this again. They come from a bad place with little freedoms and they go to the UK because they will have freedoms. It is not their fault that they are born under a country which doesnt give them freedoms. The UK is far from being a Muslim country.


Bombing has nothing to do with any of this?

I was using it as an example. I will give you a different example that might be easier to understand. If someone has abusive parents and finally seperates from them and lives by themselfs. It is not fair to abuse them because they come from an abusive background. If one country nukes another it is not justifiable to nuke the country back.


They would get used to it, and it isn't just impractical from my point of veiw, it's a fact.
I think it's just as disrespectful to have your face covered when talking to someone as having music playing, the person you're talking to can't see your reactions to what they're saying.

If you saw a Muslim on the street and were talking to them and asked if they could take off their Hijab so you could see their facial expressions and they said no, because they believe taking it off is demeaning to them and they feel like an object in the eyes of society. Would you still insist that they take it off? Does it really mean that much? I think they feel more strongly about it then we do.



How do you know how passionate non-Muslims feel about the issue?
I don't think they should be allowed to wear veils, for more reasons than not just being able to see their facial expressions. People are racist to them, because of the way they seperate themselves. If they didn't wear veils, and intergrated more, i don't think there would be as much racism. People wouldn't instantly brand them as a muslim, since they wouldn't be wearing a veil. And they do cry racism over the slightest little thing.
They TRY to change the country to suit them, and no it wouldn't be changed if the law was made, the law would be trying to keep the country the way it is, a Christian country. It's not a muslim country, and never will be, so why do muslims act like it is?

So you think it is justifiable to make racist remarks to them because they seperate themselves from society? I think they are proud to be Muslims. If you dont think the Muslims should be able to live in the country because it is a Christian country then that is not right. The Muslims are not wearing the veils so they can stick it to the Christian man. They just dont want to be seen as a sexual object in the eyes of society.

[Herman]

First of all, your being immatture saying christians haved kill more people throughout history...
I wasn't trying to flame christians, I was just opposing to the fact that you said muslims kill christians all the time.


and like I said in the post you quoted 'I would not mind'

Do you just read one line then reply?
Maybe you wouldn't mind, yes, but what about other christians? I was talking about christians in general, and not just you. If christians came to a muslim country and found out they weren't allowed to wear crosses I believe they would find it racism aswell.

[entor M]

The UK probably will stay a christian country for a long time, something like 70% of the population class themselves as christian.
The muslim religion is the fastest growing in the uk. The Christan religion has droped by a 1/3 in just the last few years "/

Aithiests will probably outnumber both within a few decades though "/



I somehow doubt christians have killed more people in history, and history isn't important, it's now that is, and i don't see christians blowing themselves up?
LMAO. Yea, the whitch burnings, crusades, responcibilty for more wars than every other religion and contary put together... Christains have killed ALOT of people.
Plus i take it you ignore the christans who go firebomb abortion clinics then?



And i doubt any christian would really mind all that much if someone asked them to take off their cross, whereas muslims kick up hell at the suggestion of removing their veil, screaming racism, as always.
IM not sure your aware of this but muslim is a religion... not a race...

Also a cross carrys little signifcants, its more like asking a nun to take of there habit, Some do, and choose to, others would take offence to the idea.
they claim racism at every little thing and it's stupid.



And I think Britain is too good to people like muslims, if we moved to a muslim country, we would be expected to life the way they do, and it should be the same here.
if they're going to come into this country and claim benefits and stuff, they should have to live our way of life.
The british way of life is one of freedom, aka your free to choose how to live, if we take your advice your just turning us in to one of those contarys...


well there shouldn't be so much freedom here, that's why this country has too many immigrants, and gives out millions in benefits.
My ignoromiter just exsploded... immigrants account for around 1.6 billion to our echomeny, and make up the majorty of the staff in the hevely staff lacking NHS...
Out of all immigrants in britain i belive the number on benifits is only in double figures....


there should be conditions to allow someone to stay in a country, and i think one of them should be that they should follow the way of life that is normal in the country.
There are conditions, and the lifestyle thats normal here is the free one. If YOU want to inforce your own idea of how this contary should be, you can go **** off and try and start your own on some remote island. Otheriwize, like everyone else, accept people are free to live how they want to live. Thats why we call it a FREE contarty...


it is completely stupid to compare asking someone to take off a veil, to bombing a country. All they're being asked to do, is take off an item of clothing. The veils are impractical, they make it hard for them to see, people can't see their expressions, and they could be hiding anything in them, it isn't fair that they get away with wearing one when some places won't let kids wearing hoodies in.
Hoodies arnt a religion, and people are allowed to ware them. feel free to Put a paper bag over your head if you feel gellusos of the anominty...

And you're saying the veil isn't a serious issue, so why is it such a big deal to ask them to take it off???[/quotes]
Its a big deal that your challneging peoples freedom. If there not allowed to do that, more aless every right and thing this contary stands for is at risk...
[quote]
They complain about racism all the time but get more special treatment than any other religion? It's not their country, so why should it be changed to suit them. If they don't like the way it is, they shouldn't come.
end off :)Muslim is a bloody religion NOT a race. I may as well tell you to go back to your contary (what ever ones christans all come from) since this aint it.

Nixt (Forum Moderator) Please be careful not to be rude while constructing arguments.

[HELENizSEXYaye?]

Muslim is a bloody religion NOT a race. I may as well tell you to go back to your contary (what ever ones christans all come from) since this aint it.

I'm not a christian. I hate christianity.

[FlyingJesus]

Those who come to this country to escape from somewhere not as "free" as this one should not expect us to adapt just for them. Yes, England is different to Saudi and the countries around it, but we shouldn't just roll over and allow our own customs to be changed by people who are (as I said in a previous post) guests in our country.

I personally have nothing against people wearing veils and such, but I back the idea of not having them allowed in public places simply for security reasons. If I started wearing the whole robe and veil thing, I could pass as a Muslim woman simply because no-one could see that I was anything different, and in this way criminals could commit many crimes and have it all blamed on Islam.

If Muslims want to be in a country that is safe, they must accept certain restrictions just like we do. A totally free country would be anarchistic, with no laws and no safety whatsoever, for anyone to expect that is ludicrous.

I for one follow the UKIP ideas on immigration, as I do not believe that Britain should be allowed to be made into a station of asylum. Freedom and rights have gone too far.

[^.^]

The reasons the Muslims move out of their countries is usually because of the freedoms in Britain and the USA. They see the freedoms and want to enjoy them too.

I don't think it is a big enough that they are wearing the veils. I think talking on a cell phone while eating breakfast and driving is more hazardous then wearing a veil.

They want to wear the veil and think it is more liberating to them. They feel if they show all of their skin they are just an object in the eyes of men. If they don't show their body then their body is more secrete and kept for the family.

You wouldn't tell an old lady to walk around the street in a short skirt and a see through top. It is embarrassing to them because they have different morals and traditions. The same with a Muslim women wearing a Hijab. They feel that they need to because of their traditions and morals.

If it was something really serious like if they were at court and needed to speak clearly they should take off their Hijab, but in normal life I don't see a need to make them do anything.

Those of you saying that they make you take off your crosses in Muslim countries so they should take their hijab off in your country are almost as people who say because the muslims flew planes into buildings with innocent people, we should purposely bomb innocent people in their countries.

more like they come over to britain and USA and try ruining our freedoms we had a debate today about the veil in public state school's for my english orals and i was "racist" just for being against it.

[MrBlown]

Muslim countries make you follow their customs?
so why should it be different for them.

If muslim countries make you not wear a cross or whatever it is a problem with their society, not ours.

MrBlown

[^.^]

no their just hippocrites if they dont like it they can go elsewhere.

[Caution]

It's not socially acceptable i would say. If your in an Official building or a Government building they should take it off. They should wear it in their own time.
Anyway it doesn't say in the Koran(Their bible) that they have to wear them.

[Herman]

It's not socially acceptable i would say. If your in an Official building or a Government building they should take it off.
In an official or government building maybe yes, they should remove them, but you shouldn't ban the wearing of veil altogether.

[Acidulantes]

So you think we shouldnt be against them wearing veils, we should just let them be hypocritical and get away with being treated better than someone else because if theyre treated the same as everyone else they might have hurt feelings??

[Zazz]

How the hell are they treated better than anyone else?

Its spelt as Quran btw Liam

[^.^]

How can they expect to have freedom if they have veils that segregates them from society

[scubadiva]

My vicar once said that she saw a Muslim women with a veil walking down the road. A car stopped at the traffic lights near where she was standing and the driver wound down the window and shouted abuse at her. My vicar went over to help and comfort the woman, but the Muslim woman wasn't really bothered, as she got that practically every time she went out wearing a veil.

This is exactly my point. Veils separate the Muslim community from the rest of the British community, and spark racist comments from SOME racist Brits, because they are an obvious sign that the person wearing it is a Muslim.

I have several Muslim friends, boys and girls. When we go out, they don't get racist remarks thrown at them, because they don't have a veil which shows everyone that they are Muslim.

I am in NO way saying that it is not allowed for Muslims (or members of any other religion for that matter) to show and be proud of their religion, but it's not really advisable in most areas of Britain, because there will most likely be racial remarks thrown at them.

[-Soph-]

I think they should be allowed, We wear whatever we want, so why can't they?
I don't see how a cloth of material could pose such a problem! I mean, its their lifestyle, How would you like it if you were asked to change your lifestyle because someone didn't like it? I'm sure you wouldn't take it well.

[Lucky]

they should be able to where the anywhere, its part of there religion and culture, its not fair just because they moved to london and they're all covered up they are treated different and everyone stares at them? they should be free to wear it, its there religion, its like us going to iran or somewhere and we have a cross and its on the new, christian in our country, ban cross's and chains, they should be able to wear it.


fullstop.

[^.^]

its not part of their religion or culture it doesnt even say to wear head scalfs or veils it just says to extend their garments not look like terrorist suspects.

[Caution]

See, this is really annoys me actually.
If I was sitting speaking to someone with the veil thing over their head. I wouldn't feel very comfartable. I'd want to see them.

[BL!NKEY]

;2343205']more like they come over to britain and USA and try ruining our freedoms we had a debate today about the veil in public state school's for my english orals and i was "racist" just for being against it.

I am sure they do not all come over to the USA with the desire to ruin your freedoms. They probably just want to experience the same freedoms as you do. You could have been born into a country without freedoms. If you were wouldnt you want to move to the USA or Britain?


;2343239']no their just hippocrites if they dont like it they can go elsewhere.

The Muslims comming to America and the UK wearing veils are not the ones who are enforcing the laws that you cannot have crosses in Muslim countries. It is not their fault. You cannot group them in with their government because there is a big space between.


So you think we shouldnt be against them wearing veils, we should just let them be hypocritical and get away with being treated better than someone else because if theyre treated the same as everyone else they might have hurt feelings??

It is not letting them be treated better then anyone else. We have Handycap parking spaces. It is not because the government hates people who can walk, its because the handycap appriciate not having to walk far. The Muslims want to wear veils and they should be allowed to.


Its spelt as Quran btw Liam

There are lots of spellings because it is not an English word

Some spell it Koran and some Qur'an


;2345137']How can they expect to have freedom if they have veils that segregates them from society

That is like saying how do you expect Blacks to have freedom because they have black skin. The population should accept them for what they are. It does not actually matter if they are segregated from society. They still have their own friends and culture. You are not forced to talk to them or anything.


See, this is really annoys me actually.
If I was sitting speaking to someone with the veil thing over their head. I wouldn't feel very comfartable. I'd want to see them.

I dont know if you regularry talk to Muslims in veils but if you were having a personal convertation then you could probably ask them to take it off. I dont think they need to take it off if you are asking them for directions off the street. The Muslims can understand eachother with the veils on so its not like it is a super secret language and we cannot tell what they are saying when they talk.

[entor M]

Free is Free. This is a Free contary. people are free to ware vails, or not to ware them. Go to some non-free contary, they are forced to ware them. If we force them NOT to ware them, then we are just turning in to a NON free contary ourselves.

There is a massive issue of hypocosy here, But its not realy the fault of the muslim population, Its The same freedom that says we can have christmas trees etc, as allows muslims to ware vails if they please. We have no right to tell them not to ware vails, as they have no right to tell us not to publicly celibrate christmas or any other religion or celibration someone wishes to embrace.
Thats what free means.

People saying they should be forced not to ware the vail, becuse they should be like the bristish are doing it the worng way around, by makeing them NOT ware it, where actualy makeing britain more like the negative aspects of certain non-free predominatly muslim contarys. So if makeing the contary like the dictatorships some of them may have come from was there aim, your helping them to achieave it "/

[RedStratocas]

;2346068']its not part of their religion or culture it doesnt even say to wear head scalfs or veils it just says to extend their garments not look like terrorist suspects.

Thats an aweful arguement. There's no law that requires you to wear or not wear something, so why is a veil an exception?

A kid gets bullied for wearing a pink shirt, should it be outlawed to wear pink shirts? No. It's his choice what to wear, and if it's a conflict among others, than he can solve it by not wearing the shirt anymore. If he continues to wear the shirt, that means he doesnt care what other people think about him wearing it.

[Pyroka]

I think, in the shortest way i can put it is that Muslim women should be able to wear whatever they want. Its like languages kinda, since we're talking a different language to others as they look different to use.

Theyre both different cultures, but Great britain is a place of many cultures so just this one culture wont cause a problem. Britain is a place of freedom of speech, and authority as it is for clothing, so YES they should be able to wear veils to show their eyes if they want to, or if they feel its neccessary, maybe more? :)

[FlyingJesus]

Why should they be allowed to cover their faces when we aren't?

[Acidulantes]

Nice one flyingjesus... all these people saying that they dont get special treatment... and yet they forget the whole thing a few months ago hoodys have been banned... and baseball caps arent allowed in schools anymore either...

[:Hazel]

Thats an aweful arguement. There's no law that requires you to wear or not wear something, so why is a veil an exception?


In the UK now although it isn't (yet) a law as such, people with hoodies are not allowed in certain shopping centres and other public places.

[RedStratocas]

In the UK now although it isn't (yet) a law as such, people with hoodies are not allowed in certain shopping centres and other public places.

Thats because its probably a stereotype [a true stereotype mind you. yes, stereotypes can be, and are often true] that people who wear hoodies cause problems. But until women wearing veils actually cause a problem, then I dont see why they should be banned

[FlyingJesus]

It's not that they do cause problems, it's that they could. As I mentioned before, if I were to dress as a Muslim woman with the full veil I would most likely pass for one, as could any criminal. It is not simply an issue of freedom of clothing, but one of national security.

[BL!NKEY]

It's not that they do cause problems, it's that they could. As I mentioned before, if I were to dress as a Muslim woman with the full veil I would most likely pass for one, as could any criminal. It is not simply an issue of freedom of clothing, but one of national security.

Lol a issue of national security

I can see how it could turn into a problem but a criminal could always dress in a painters suite with a mask and still hide the same.

It is not enough of a problem to make them not wear the veils.

[entor M]

Why should they be allowed to cover their faces when we aren't?
The simple answer to that is you are... if you realy feel the need to cover your face its your choice? theres no law againsit it "/
Note, that a privert property is able to inforce its own rules at its own discression.

[Acidulantes]

[QUOTE=FlyingJesus;2347178] if I were to dress as a Muslim woman with the full veil I would most likely pass for one, as could any criminal.QUOTE]

As long as you had feminine eyes... lol anyways, yea who knows what theyre hiding under that big cloak thingy...

[RedStratocas]

It's not that they do cause problems, it's that they could. As I mentioned before, if I were to dress as a Muslim woman with the full veil I would most likely pass for one, as could any criminal. It is not simply an issue of freedom of clothing, but one of national security.

But anything could cause problems, but its okay, because they dont. With the right makeup, I could pass as someone from virtually any race. But petty criminals dont go through all the unnesesary trouble of buying that specific of clothing when they simply need a mask. Not to mention, the full muslim woman outfit would make the worst possible getaway clothing. I just dont see people dressing up as muslim women to comit crimes.

[Acidulantes]

Maybe not to commit crimes... but if someones onto you for say, being an illegal immigrant... its a good way to hide and avoid being asked to remove it..

[Herman]

and yet they forget the whole thing a few months ago hoodys have been banned... and baseball caps arent allowed in schools anymore either...


people with hoodies are not allowed in certain shopping centres and other public places.
But hoodies and caps do not associate with a religion, unlike a veil. It's two different things.

[/Rossco\]

tehy come to this country adn expect us to cahnge for them, and compalin about the western way of life. GO HOME! if thats how you feel. I know that many are good people and fit in perfectly but its the extremest that should be kicked out.

and listening to that woman wearing the veil on GMTV the other day, she was agressive but the woman who was arguing against it was well vlever and educated about their religeon inall aspect so caught her out in cases.

anyway.. its a risk to the public they are hiding there face therefore cctv cant pick them up. its the same as youths wearing hoddies in shops(thats been banned in places) its for the safety of the general public, religeon or not. osama bin laden etc declare holy war against us. its "religion" but its not tolerated is it.

its also rude for talking to other people!

[Lucky]

;2346068']its not part of their religion or culture it doesnt even say to wear head scalfs or veils it just says to extend their garments not look like terrorist suspects.

its respectful for them, they are not allowed to reveal any part of there body apart from there eyes.

[com-bat]

Well its not actually part of islam to cover your face/ where that veil my mum gets angry when she sees women like that but a headscarf Is
only nessercary while praying to seperate them from god.

I know this since I am a muslim.

[^.^]

The qu'raan (whatever it is) only says to "extend their garments to be distinguished not poenilized" their sure being distinguished now.... it does not say cover up completely so no-one can see what you look like, hear what your saying or look like a complete anonymous. their just hiding behind their religion because they think noone is bothered to translate it.

[Acidulantes]

The women at my church where scarves on their heads only when praying because yea, it shows respect to God, but not out in everyday life...

[^.^]

our christmas play in my last school was cancelled by the muslim community because it didnt mention their prophets or their god why should we deal with their head veils.

[Acidulantes]

Does their diwali festivals 'deal' with my God?

[Zazz]

Muslims dont even celebrate diwali it isnt a islamic celebration so what are you on about?

[Acidulantes]

w/e festivals they have then... Im not a genius

[Zazz]

Well its not actually part of islam to cover your face/ where that veil my mum gets angry when she sees women like that but a headscarf Is
only nessercary while praying to seperate them from god.

I know this since I am a muslim.

No, a muslim women is expected to wear a scarf, but wearing a veil is optional but strongly reccomended.


;2348639']The qu'raan (whatever it is) only says to "extend their garments to be distinguished not poenilized" their sure being distinguished now.... it does not say cover up completely so no-one can see what you look like, hear what your saying or look like a complete anonymous. their just hiding behind their religion because they think noone is bothered to translate it.

Ill teach you something today, what do you think a bible is or a Torah is? A holy book right.. is it too hard for you to realise that the quran is our holy book? or are you just mentally ******ed?
Nixt (Forum Moderator) Please try not to be rude while constructing arguments.


;2348649']our christmas play in my last school was cancelled by the muslim community because it didnt mention their prophets or their god why should we deal with their head veils.

Muslim has nothing to do with Christmas so why would they want to cancel the play? Christmas has nothing to do with Muslims. So thats basically a lie.


w/e festivals they have then... Im not a genius

You dont need to be a genius to know, only need to know your facts.. Its called EID

[Acidulantes]

I doubt he'd make something up like that... Muslims have gotten loads of 'christmas' stuff taken away...


or are you just mentally ******ed?

Sounds like we've got an angry muslim right here on this forum...

[FrozenWhisper]

I think, it is really up to the Muslims to decided. In my eyes, an ideal world, there would be no religion. It auses wars, hatred and fights. IMO. I don't really have a religion.

[Zazz]

I doubt he'd make something up like that... Muslims have gotten loads of 'christmas' stuff taken away...



Sounds like we've got an angry muslim right here on this forum...

No, its annoys me how some of you want to start an arguement but don't know your simple facts about islam. Also if you can give me an example of some christmas stuff being 'taken away' by Muslims, that would be great, but for now ill take that comment as a dumb lie k.

[Fomas]

Im happy there thinking of banning veils.
Its about time.

Frankly, Its our Country, if they want to come over here, take our jobs, eat our food, live in our houses, and we dont complain. They follow our rules.

Its our country not their's.
We have enough respect to not wear hats inside, or hoodies, or balaclava's (well majority) as a sense of respect, therefore veils should be banned in public buildings.

They dont get extra treatment for their religion, if they wanna do that religion go home, its a christian country, they should be gratefull were letting them stay. There just getting to big for their own shoes thinking they cant fight back. To be totally honest, were being generous the least they can do is listen to our rules.

[^.^]

Im happy there thinking of banning veils.
Its about time.

Frankly, Its our Country, if they want to come over here, take our jobs, eat our food, live in our houses, and we dont complain. They follow our rules.

Its our country not their's.
We have enough respect to not wear hats inside, or hoodies, or balaclava's (well majority) as a sense of respect, therefore veils should be banned in public buildings.

They dont get extra treatment for their religion, if they wanna do that religion go home, its a christian country, they should be gratefull were letting them stay. There just getting to big for their own shoes thinking they cant fight back. To be totally honest, were being generous the least they can do is listen to our rules.
well said, in addition to that most of the muslims in this country are most likely to be ilegal immigrants so we didnt even let them in the country they just havnt been deported yet.

[Zazz]

Im happy there thinking of banning veils.
Its about time.

Frankly, Its our Country, if they want to come over here, take our jobs, eat our food, live in our houses, and we dont complain. They follow our rules.

Its our country not their's.
We have enough respect to not wear hats inside, or hoodies, or balaclava's (well majority) as a sense of respect, therefore veils should be banned in public buildings.

They dont get extra treatment for their religion, if they wanna do that religion go home, its a christian country, they should be gratefull were letting them stay. There just getting to big for their own shoes thinking they cant fight back. To be totally honest, were being generous the least they can do is listen to our rules.

Dubai is a muslim country, you don't see them telling people not to wear short skirts or tank tops do you? and as it has been said before, a hoodie isnt a religious clothing, so why does it matter?


;2348968']well said, in addition to that most of the muslims in this country are most likely to be ilegal immigrants so we didnt even let them in the country they just havnt been deported yet.

You got some evidence for that ,or is it just one of your other lies? Also have you heard of such things such as converts?

[Fomas]

Dubai is a muslim country, you don't see them telling people not to wear short skirts or tank tops do you? and as it has been said before, a hoodie isnt a religious clothing, so why does it matter?



You got some evidence for that ,or is it just one of your other lies? Also have you heard of such things such as converts?

I dont care if its a religion or not.
This country doesnt want it and they should respect the order.
Its not their room to argue.

If they dont like it go home i say

[Herman]

w/e festivals they have then... Im not a genius
It wouldn't hurt to learn more about Islam.


Frankly, Its our Country, if they want to come over here, take our jobs, eat our food, live in our houses, and we dont complain. They follow our rules. Its our country not their's.

Is there a rule which forbids muslim women from wearing veils?


;2348968']well said, in addition to that most of the muslims in this country are most likely to be ilegal immigrants so we didnt even let them in the country they just havnt been deported yet.
So what's your next bright idea? Kick out all of the muslims? Sheesh.

Edit: And Max you said something about the muslim community ruining your christmas play. So you're just gonna judge every other muslim because of what they did? Dude, that's just like saying you're judging muslims because of what the extremists and terrorists did.

[Zazz]

I dont care if its a religion or not.
This country doesnt want it and they should respect the order.
Its not their room to argue.

If they dont like it go home i say

No, muslims have the right to fight agaisnt justice, we wont make ourselves look like idiots and forget about it, and dont tell us to go home as some of us will find it offencive as we we're born here..


Edit: And Max you said something about the muslim community ruining your christmas play. So you're just gonna judge every other muslim because of what they did? Dude, that's just like saying you're judging muslims because of what the extremists and terrorists did.

Yeah alot of people are doing that these days, listening to the media and judging muslims by actions other muslims have done. Seriously you need to think about this.

[adm]

Ok, so i'm against illegal immigrants coming over to the UK on any grounds - whether their country is falling to bits or they need to make money.

They come over here, thinking they're all that - getting job, money, house, car, mobile etc - off the social for free. Whilst we hard-working citizens have to work for our money - it makes me sick.

Moving onto the debate topic itself - veils. My own personal opinion is that the veils that muslim women wear look incriminating and that anything that looks suspicious in a major way - like it does - should be gone.

Take this for instance: -
If you were walking down the street and a muslim 'woman' was walking down the street with a veil on and you could only see her eyes - it doesn't look 'right'.

This is my opinion and I should be allowed to express it.

I say, if people feel intimidated[sp] by these veils - then they should be banned.

[Fomas]

Is there a rule which forbids muslim women from wearing veils?

There isnt a rule.
Thats the argument.

I think there should be, it cuts down communication and it can be threatening.
There is no need in this country to wear them.

[Zazz]

Ok, so i'm against illegal immigrants coming over to the UK on any grounds - whether their country is falling to bits or they need to make money.

They come over here, thinking they're all that - getting job, money, house, car, mobile etc - off the social for free. Whilst we hard-working citizens have to work for our money - it makes me sick.

Moving onto the debate topic itself - veils. My own personal opinion is that the veils that muslim women wear look incriminating and that anything that looks suspicious in a major way - like it does - should be gone.

Take this for instance: -
If you were walking down the street and a muslim 'woman' was walking down the street with a veil on and you could only see her eyes - it doesn't look 'right'.

This is my opinion and I should be allowed to express it.

I say, if people feel intimidated[sp] by these veils - then they should be banned.


It doesn't need to look right, they aren't wearing it for attention, so it doesnt matter. so if you see a a woman wearing a mini skirt and her breast completely popping out, does that look right?


There isnt a rule.
Thats the argument.

I think there should be, it cuts down communication and it can be threatening.
There is no need in this country to wear them.

What do you mean 'There is no need in this country to wear them'? Just because its a Christian country it doesnt mean theres a particular way you must dress.

[Acidulantes]

Zazz, in response to you saying I lied, I didnt... If youve ever been to birmingham at christma... Im sorry, late december, you wont have seen anything like christmas lights or santas grottos because the muslim community said it offended them, and now the shops arent allowed to sell christmas cards either... theyre called 'festive lights' and 'festive cards' and I think you should stop calling people liars...


What do you mean 'There is no need in this country to wear them'? Just because its a Christian country it doesnt mean theres a particular way you must dress.

He didnt say theres a particular way you should dress he said theres no need... there is a difference.


And in response to you trying to get one over on ad'am too...

Anything that looks intimidating should be banned be it religious or not...

[RedStratocas]

Maybe not to commit crimes... but if someones onto you for say, being an illegal immigrant... its a good way to hide and avoid being asked to remove it..

That made no sense at all. What does wearing a veil have to do with being an illegal immigrant? You lost me there. A veil isnt a magic cloak that makes you invisible, you cant hide with it.


;2348639']The qu'raan (whatever it is) only says to "extend their garments to be distinguished not poenilized" their sure being distinguished now.... it does not say cover up completely so no-one can see what you look like, hear what your saying or look like a complete anonymous. their just hiding behind their religion because they think noone is bothered to translate it.

If thats how they see it, whats the problem? There are hundreds of types of christians who see certain things in the bible different ways, and interprit it differently.


Im happy there thinking of banning veils.
Its about time.

Frankly, Its our Country, if they want to come over here, take our jobs, eat our food, live in our houses, and we dont complain. They follow our rules.

Its our country not their's.
We have enough respect to not wear hats inside, or hoodies, or balaclava's (well majority) as a sense of respect, therefore veils should be banned in public buildings.

They dont get extra treatment for their religion, if they wanna do that religion go home, its a christian country, they should be gratefull were letting them stay. There just getting to big for their own shoes thinking they cant fight back. To be totally honest, were being generous the least they can do is listen to our rules.

But wearing a veil isnt a rule. Youre assuming it is. So no, they arent fighting, they arent protesting anything, because nothing has happened. They aren't disobeying, are they now?


;2348968']well said, in addition to that most of the muslims in this country are most likely to be ilegal immigrants so we didnt even let them in the country they just havnt been deported yet.

73.9% of statistics are made up on the spot. Give me some real sources to back up your claim.


I say, if people feel intimidated[sp] by these veils - then they should be banned.

I'm intimidated by your opinion, does that mean it should be banned?

Thats censorship, and that is what I am EXTREMELY against. Not just because I want to do or say what I want, but because it causes chain reactions. Think of it this way: If veils get banned because people dont like it and such, think about all the other doors that open for other things to be banned.

Example:

A show is pulled from television because muslims say they are offended by it. Jews hear about this, and seeing how easily muslims did it, get a different show pulled from the air because they dont like it. Christians dont like a show, they pull one. Its all a chain reaction, and it's all traced down to one thing. If you censor one thing, you have to do the same to many more.

[Acidulantes]

That made no sense at all. What does wearing a veil have to do with being an illegal immigrant? You lost me there. A veil isnt a magic cloak that makes you invisible, you cant hide with it.

If your a muslim and an illegal immigrant (which can and does happen) then wearing a veil all the time is a good way not go get questioned about being an illegal immigrant because to prove you are theyd have to get a picture of your face compared to your passport and if your wearing a veil and someone says take it off, you can just say your offended, call them racist, and walk off living in the country for another few years until somoene else asks you...

[Zazz]

Zazz, in response to you saying I lied, I didnt... If youve ever been to birmingham at christma... Im sorry, late december, you wont have seen anything like christmas lights or santas grottos because the muslim community said it offended them, and now the shops arent allowed to sell christmas cards either... theyre called 'festive lights' and 'festive cards' and I think you should stop calling people liars...



He didnt say theres a particular way you should dress he said theres no need... there is a difference.



And in response to you trying to get one over on ad'am too...

Anything that looks intimidating should be banned be it religious or not...


So theres no need to wear a turban or a kippot? So you're basically saying, once your in this country, you don't need to wear any religious cloths?


Sikhs have been allowed to wear a Kirpan at schools, now would you find that intimidating. Veils dont make much of a difference.

[Acidulantes]

Im sure if they actually had a kirpan on them, visable, someone would of said something about it... unless of course its a sikh school...
dont be so silly thinking your getting ganged up on so you make stuff up...

[^.^]

It wouldn't hurt to learn more about Islam.


Is there a rule which forbids muslim women from wearing veils?


So what's your next bright idea? Kick out all of the muslims? Sheesh.

Edit: And Max you said something about the muslim community ruining your christmas play. So you're just gonna judge every other muslim because of what they did? Dude, that's just like saying you're judging muslims because of what the extremists and terrorists did.

it happens everywhere so i guess i am.

[RedStratocas]

If your a muslim and an illegal immigrant (which can and does happen) then wearing a veil all the time is a good way not go get questioned about being an illegal immigrant because to prove you are theyd have to get a picture of your face compared to your passport and if your wearing a veil and someone says take it off, you can just say your offended, call them racist, and walk off living in the country for another few years until somoene else asks you...

There is a fine line between wearing something for your rights and being difficult. So yes, if a muslim woman is being difficult or commited a crime, she should be forced to take it off for reasons as such. You cant just say "youre racist" and walk away. If your police system works like that over there, you have way more problems than muslim women wearing veils. But if it's just a muslim woman on the street minding her own, why should that be a problem?

[Zazz]

Im sure if they actually had a kirpan on them, visable, someone would of said something about it... unless of course its a sikh school...
dont be so silly thinking your getting ganged up on so you make stuff up...


Ill give you evidence since you're so hard headed, also its not a sikh school its a canadian school. There was a case agaisnt it, I guess you dont watch the news. Heres your link:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/1994676.stm

happy?:)


it happens everywhere so i guess i am.

EDIT: Max, the crusades caused alot of terror on muslims, you dont see people today judging other christians for those actions that they did do you?

[^.^]

no i dont actually.

[Zazz]

;2349912']no i dont actually.

So dont you think thats a act of hypocrisy?

[^.^]

our country our rules get used to it.

[Zazz]

;2349961']our country our rules get used to it.

Max if you've got pathetic stuff to say, don't bother saying it. Stop repeating that stupid phrase, because its not helping you in anyway, with this debate.

[^.^]

its the same with every other country.

[Zazz]

;2350194']its the same with every other country.

The country doesnt make the laws, only the goverment. People won't get to vote on the laws, so don't bother saying that.

[Kymux]

Can I just say: I live 3 doors down from Jack straw.

[in my special dreams]

Nixt (Forum Moderator) Please do not post pointlessly, this forum is used for debating.

[Acidulantes]

You know I would of bothered to read that if I thought it would of proven me wrong in any way...

I think though, your trying to say that because sikhs get to carry daggers, muslims should get to wear veils?

[BL!NKEY]

I think though, your trying to say that because sikhs get to carry daggers, muslims should get to wear veils?

That is a point.

If sikhs are allowed to carry daggers it cannot be worse then muslims with veils.

[Desjardens]

Personally, i don't like them, they make people look ominus, like they have somthing to hide.

[Herman]

;2349961']our country our rules get used to it.
Everything you've said so far sums up to that one sentence. If you can't give better evidence or info, don't bother posting.

[^.^]

your evidence isnt that great either " oh its my religion " its not their religion its recomended its not even highly recomended it doesnt even say to put on a veil and cover themselves up from society.

[Zazz]

;2352327']your evidence isnt that great either " oh its my religion " its not their religion its recomended its not even highly recomended it doesnt even say to put on a veil and cover themselves up from society.



O Prophet! Tell your wives and your daughters and the women of the believers to draw their cloaks (veils)* all over their bodies (i.e. screen themselves completely except the eyes or one eye to see the way). That will be better, that they should be known (as free respectable women) so as not to be annoyed. And Allah is Ever Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful


So it does say wear a veil, it is strongly reccomended by scholars, the prophets wives used to wear veils.

[Herman]

;2352327']its not even highly recomended
See, you don't even know much about Islam, yet again making lies about the religion. Zazz just proved you wrong. It has been written that wearing is a veil is STRONGLY recommended. If you can't think of proper evidence, like I've said before, don't bother posting!

[alexxxxx]

Cool it people! =] I believe people should be disouraged from wearing the veil, not banned or anything. It maybe part of their religion, but our society isn't up for dealing with people that wear them. Maybe in public buildings, we should ask people to take it off (not force them, maybe put up a sign saying:

"We ask you to remove Veils, hoodies, hats and other items covering the head. You are not obliged to do so."

I think it does show a contrast between different races and religions if they wear them. There are plenty of muslim girls in my school that do not wear head scarfs.

[FlyingJesus]

O Prophet! Tell your wives and your daughters and the women of the believers to draw their cloaks (veils)* all over their bodies (i.e. screen themselves completely except the eyes or one eye to see the way). That will be better, that they should be known (as free respectable women) so as not to be annoyed. And Allah is Ever Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful


I'm guessing the bits in brackets are added in, as most holy scripts don't have "ie:" kind of things, therefore you've added in the bit about veils. I don't know what you think a cloak is, but it certainly isn't a veil, and your face isn't your body, so once again it is misinterpretation that has led to all this.

Even so, you can't shrug off the "it's our country, accept the customs of it" argument because your argument is "it's my religion, accept it". There's no difference, yet you condemn one and use the other.

I have nothing against Muslims, I'm sure most are fine, but the few who do take things too far are a real problem. They ("they" being the ones who take things too far) don't seem to realise that this isn't a Muslim country, and we shouldn't have to change how we celebrate Christmas and other Christian festivals just because it upsets them. They are trying to turn England into a Muslim country, and in this way it truly is an invasion. We're off fighting Muslim extremists in Iraq/Afghanistan (and Iran soon) but fail to even acknowledge the fight in our own country. I'm not saying we should attack Muslims in Britain, but we should at least be able to stand up for our long-standing traditions and customs and have the power to call safety issues without being branded racists.

[Shatter(1)]

Most of em are bloody imagrants.

Nixt (Forum Moderator) Please try to construct arguments a little less rudely in the future.

[Acidulantes]

Lmao shatner...

And you cant really quote a holy book on this, as the bible says (the christian holy book) an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth. If people actually followed this, then we'd all be in turmoil and it says when someone asked Jesus how many times we should forgive people, he said seventy times seven. this doesnt mean you actually have to forgive someone 490 times.

[kinky]

No. When we go to their country, they make us wear their clothes, so over here they can wear our clothes. They annoy me, 'cos you dunno what they could be hiding under that thing.

[FlyingJesus]

I think people can go on about freedom and choice all you like, but at the end of the day it's not about that, it's about making us, the British peoples, happy.

"But what about making them happy?"

I don't care, because two very important things come before the happiness of others in my opinion: myself, and Britain.

[VanHalen]

My opinion is this is OUR COUNTRY and they should obey our laws, not go and make their own. If they don't like it, they can go back tot heir home countries.

[Nixt]

My opinion is this is OUR COUNTRY and they should obey our laws, not go and make their own. If they don't like it, they can go back tot heir home countries.

That's not what the thread is about, the question is should it be made a law, and why? There isn't actually anything already saying they can't, just a suggestion by an MP.

[DiscoPat]

What he said.
If they're going to come here to live they should be made to live the way people here do.
they make other people feel uncomfortable, and they're less likely to get racist abuse anyway, as it'd be harded to spot that they were muslim.
Muslim's would be less seperate from other people.

If they wanted people to know they were muslim, they could find some more discreet way of showing it, like christians wear a cross.

You stupid iddiot!
Are you telling me that there isnt any English Muslims?
Also just because MOST english people are Christian
does not mean that if some are they cant show there
belief into there own religion.

Nixt (Forum Moderator) Please try to construct arguments a little less rudely in the future.

Also if a English Christian family went to an islamic country
for example Turkey you would notice that there are women
who wear veils and also you would see women wearing mini
skirts, there is freedom, it isnt right to tell ANYONE how to
show there fath for a religion.
Also someone said about how we are not in the middle east
well mate as I said you dont need to be living in the middle-
east to be a muslim.
--
If you go to a Muslim Country then you are forced to wear a Veil, It should be the same here, If a Muslim wants to wear a veil then it should wear it in private not in public, England is a Christian Country and has been for Hundreds of years and were happy with it the way it stands by Christian Laws, lets not change it to suit Muslims.

Mate, bare in mind that not all Islamic Countries FORCE women to wear
a veil, e.g. Turkey, Iran>>>

---
Seacat made an interesting post about the sun reporter going past the security into the plane, my answer to that is; they still do the check of whats in there bag and they do go through that machine where they see
if you got any weopons on you.
--
Acidulantes about the 7x7 thing, the actual thing is in the bible it says
forgive someone 7 times then after 7th mistake forigve them 7x7 then 7x7x7 etc.
--
vanhalen said about following there laws? well little mate - there isnt a law about not being able to wear veils.
--

Finnally I didnt read every post I just skim readed some.
Also I would like to point out that It's a fantastic thing what the
United Kingdom has done by geting all these people all over the world
and making people awear of all these cultures.
I was born in Turkey, I came to England when I was 3, I'm a Turkish and
British Citizen, I gain(ed) alot from England and in return what I am giving
back is being something, let me explaine, there are millions of people like me who will at the end give a big thing back to england, e.g. by being a doctor, being lawyers, being bin collectors, being pilots, opening businesses
and giving more people jobs. Just think about all this we have more important things to talk about than whether or not people Should show there fath in what ever way.

:)

[FlyingJesus]

You stupid iddiot!
Are you telling me that there isnt any English Muslims?
Also just because MOST english people are Christian
does not mean that if some are they cant show there
belief into there own religion.

No-one said that there aren't any British Muslims, but the Muslims who kick up a fuss about things are the ones who are new to the country (if you want proof just think about how hardly any news was about Muslims in this country before).


Also if a English Christian family went to an islamic country
for example Turkey you would notice that there are women
who wear veils and also you would see women wearing mini
skirts, there is freedom, it isnt right to tell ANYONE how to
show there fath for a religion.
Also someone said about how we are not in the middle east
well mate as I said you dont need to be living in the middle-
east to be a muslim.

If you're going to follow what a book says I don't see why you can't follow what a person says.[/quote]

[Acidulantes]

--
Acidulantes about the 7x7 thing, the actual thing is in the bible it says
forgive someone 7 times then after 7th mistake forigve them 7x7 then 7x7x7 etc.
--


NIV:
21Then Peter came to Jesus and asked, "Lord, how many times shall I forgive my brother when he sins against me? Up to seven times?"
22Jesus answered, "I tell you, not seven times, but seventy times seven

King James version:
21Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times?

22Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, Until seventy times seven.

The Message:
21At that point Peter got up the nerve to ask, "Master, how many times do I forgive a brother or sister who hurts me? Seven?"
22Jesus replied, "Seven! Hardly. Try seventy times seven.


It really doesnt matter which one you look at, your wrong on that one...

[DiscoPat]

If you're going to follow what a book says I don't see why you can't follow what a person says.[/quote]

I'm following from the book and experience.

-
No-one said that there aren't any British Muslims, but the Muslims who kick up a fuss about things are the ones who are new to the country (if you want proof just think about how hardly any news was about Muslims in this country before).


Can you give me an example please.

[Acidulantes]

How can he give an example of something that wasnt there?

[RedStratocas]

Frankly, Its our Country, if they want to come over here, take our jobs, eat our food, live in our houses, and we dont complain. They follow our rules.


I dont care if its a religion or not.
This country doesnt want it and they should respect the order.
Its not their room to argue.

If they dont like it go home i say


;2349961']our country our rules get used to it.


My opinion is this is OUR COUNTRY and they should obey our laws, not go and make their own. If they don't like it, they can go back tot heir home countries.


WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU PEOPLE TALKING ABOUT?!

What do I have to say to get you people to understand this?: The arguement is not "Should muslims have to obey our laws?" its "Should veils be banned?". By saying "its our country so dey shold folow our rules LOLZ" ISNT SAYING ANYTHING. It isnt a law, so technically THEY ARENT DISOBEYING! How many sentences do I have to capitolize and underline for you people to understand?

[Acidulantes]

You dont have to be so rude... you mimicked them there by using slang 'LOLZ' when none of them used it... what are you on about is the question?

[alexxxxx]

My cousins are muslim and live in Jordan (Islamic country), but they don't wear any veils. =] It's a choice, but the women that do wear them do make themselves look far different to others.

[Acidulantes]

See? Its CHOICE! Meaning they shouldnt get in a fuss if they get asked to take it off!

[alexxxxx]

See? Its CHOICE! Meaning they shouldnt get in a fuss if they get asked to take it off!

It's a choice for them to decide if they want to wear it, not somebody elses.

[camera]

See? Its CHOICE! Meaning they shouldnt get in a fuss if they get asked to take it off!

its also 'choice' if they dont wanna take it off

[alexxxxx]

its also 'choice' if they dont wanna take it off

Ya. That's what I meant.

[RedStratocas]

You dont have to be so rude... you mimicked them there by using slang 'LOLZ' when none of them used it... what are you on about is the question?

I always do that when I make a hypothetical quote. Its just something I do.

And I had every right to say that, because I, and other people, said the same thing to them before, and people are still saying it. It isnt an arguement, stop thinking it is. Saying 'its our rules get used to it' says NOTHING. Why? BECAUSE THEY ARENT YOUR RULES.


See? Its CHOICE! Meaning they shouldnt get in a fuss if they get asked to take it off!

Okay, so you shouldnt mind stripping down to your underwear if someone asks you, because it was your CHOICE to wear clothes.

[entor M]

I think people can go on about freedom and choice all you like, but at the end of the day it's not about that, it's about making us, the British peoples, happy.

"But what about making them happy?"

I don't care, because two very important things come before the happiness of others in my opinion: myself, and Britain.
Freedom of Choice, Makes the BRITISH PEOPLE HAPPY. Both me, and pretty much everyone else i know. Creating Fashist laws does NOT make me happy.
British People doesnt just mean You, you know, British people also includes Muslims, Jews, Seeks, and a couple of 1000 other religions right threw to scienceology "/
Not just yours. freedom of choice, is what lets us all live together, If you dont want freedom of choice, maybe you should leave this contary insted and form your own natzi resheam?

[FlyingJesus]

Freedom of Choice, Makes the BRITISH PEOPLE HAPPY. Both me, and pretty much everyone else i know. Creating Fashist laws does NOT make me happy.
British People doesnt just mean You, you know, British people also includes Muslims, Jews, Seeks, and a couple of 1000 other religions right threw to scienceology "/
Not just yours. freedom of choice, is what lets us all live together, If you dont want freedom of choice, maybe you should leave this contary insted and form your own natzi resheam?

I love how people immediately think I'm a Nazi for saying that freedom should have limits.

I never claimed that the British people were all of one race, religion or anything like that. I simply don't think we should base our customs on the happiness of those who are newest to our country rather than caring for our own first. It's nothing to do with fascism, but it's ridiculous to say that we should jeopardise our own safety just to make immigrants and asylum seekers happy.

[RLY-CRAIG?]

They can wear whatever they want. Some women wear SHORT skirts

And you're complaing with that?;)

And no they shouldnt, its our country and we dont go around like that-Plus,muslims blow us up so they couldbe hiding bombs in there (You never know) You may call me racist but imnot, there is enough facts to show that a lot of muslims try and blow us up

*Waits for replies ranting at sam*

[alexxxxx]

And you're complaing with that?;)

And no they shouldnt, its our country and we dont go around like that-Plus,muslims blow us up so they couldbe hiding bombs in there (You never know) You may call me racist but imnot, there is enough facts to show that a lot of muslims try and blow us up

*Waits for replies ranting at sam*

FGS, there are thousands (million?) of muslims that are BRITISH, so stop thinking that british people are all white and are christian. IT'S JUST NOT TRUE.

[Zazz]

And you're complaing with that?;)

And no they shouldnt, its our country and we dont go around like that-Plus,muslims blow us up so they couldbe hiding bombs in there (You never know) You may call me racist but imnot, there is enough facts to show that a lot of muslims try and blow us up

*Waits for replies ranting at sam*

Yes well done we realised its your country from the millions of times it has been posted. You don't go around like what? wearing veils? You know i actually rofl'ed at that muslims blow us up bit. Its amazing how theres never been a woman with a veil, which has blown herself up into pieces, Stupid. Anyone can hide a bomb in their bag as well. If there is enough facts that shows that alot of muslims try and blow you up, then why didnt you post any idiot.

[RLY-CRAIG?]

Yes well done we realised its your country from the millions of times it has been posted. You don't go around like what? wearing veils? You know i actually rofl'ed at that muslims blow us up bit. Its amazing how theres never been a woman with a veil, which has blown herself up into pieces, Stupid. Anyone can hide a bomb in their bag as well. If there is enough facts that shows that alot of muslims try and blow you up, then why didnt you post any idiot.


July london bombings, muslims

September elenvth, muslims

[Zazz]

July london bombings, muslims

September elenvth, muslims

So are you judging ALL muslims by those two events?

[RLY-CRAIG?]

So are you judging ALL muslims by those two events?

I never said i'm judging all muslims, I said a few on them do, and t is actually for security why they're not allowed them in some schools

[Zazz]

And you're complaing with that?;)

And no they shouldnt, its our country and we dont go around like that-Plus,muslims blow us up so they couldbe hiding bombs in there (You never know) You may call me racist but imnot, there is enough facts to show that a lot of muslims try and blow us up

*Waits for replies ranting at sam*

No you never said 'a few', so changing your words wont work here.


I never said i'm judging all muslims, I said a few on them do, and t is actually for security why they're not allowed them in some schools

Anyone can bring a bomb into school.. even if they didnt allow all the muslims. And yes you didn't say you were judging all muslims, you made that impression.

[RedStratocas]

And you're complaing with that?;)

And no they shouldnt, its our country and we dont go around like that-Plus,muslims blow us up so they couldbe hiding bombs in there (You never know) You may call me racist but imnot, there is enough facts to show that a lot of muslims try and blow us up

*Waits for replies ranting at sam*

You could hide a bomb in your underpants, so thats a bad arguement. And last time I checked, more christians have killed people than muslims.

[Acidulantes]

And last time I checked, more christians have killed people than muslims.

why do people keep saying that???

[Zazz]

why do people keep saying that???

Because its true. More people have died in Iraq than the Twin towers and london bombings put together.
http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/10/29/iraq.deaths/

[RedStratocas]

why do people keep saying that???

Because its true, and people keep bringing up that 'muslims kill people'.

[FlyingJesus]

Christian wars have nothing to do with the threat of terrorism or even petty crime though. Yes, through the ages Christians have probably killed more people than any other religion despite having only been around a couple of thousand years (small time compared to old religions like Islam, Judaism, Hindu), but that isn't the issue here.

I don't care if it's customary for Muslim women to wear veils. It's customary for chavs to wear hoods and caps but they're still made to take them off in shops, restaurants and the likes. I don't think a "ban" on veils is necessary but Muslims should respect that hidden identity is or can be very intimidating to a lot of people, and so if they are asked politely to remove such items of clothing that cover the face, they should do so.

[RedStratocas]

Banning veils in public buildings? Fine. But on the street, minding their own buisness no.

[Acidulantes]

How the heck can you say that the US invading Iraq is christians killing anyone!? Where did you get that idea from??? Thats the most ridiculous thing Ive heard since someone on here said they have to wear veils... really... but thats zazz' p.o.v, redstrato, have you got anything anywhere that says christians have killed more people than muslims?

[entor M]

I don't care if it's customary for Muslim women to wear veils. It's customary for chavs to wear hoods and caps but they're still made to take them off in shops, restaurants and the likes. I don't think a "ban" on veils is necessary but Muslims should respect that hidden identity is or can be very intimidating to a lot of people, and so if they are asked politely to remove such items of clothing that cover the face, they should do so.
Where not talking about rules that can be enforced on pirvert property, where talking about laws. Id be just as opposed to a law that said chavs couldnt ware hoodies, becuse its an attack on freedom of choice.
But privert propertys are able to enforce pretty much what ever they like. I could enforce a rule that everyone has to ware underware on there heads if they wanted to enter my house, with just as much athority as a shop that says chavs cant ware hoodies, or if it felt like it veils cant be worn inside.

Makeing a law on the other hand, is WRONG.

[Acidulantes]

I actually havent seen any one wearing a veil in the past two weeks or so, when on my daily bus journey to college I go down a road that can only be described as the most un-white road in the county...

[Zazz]

How the heck can you say that the US invading Iraq is christians killing anyone!? Where did you get that idea from??? Thats the most ridiculous thing Ive heard since someone on here said they have to wear veils... really... but thats zazz' p.o.v, redstrato, have you got anything anywhere that says christians have killed more people than muslims?

How exactly can you say that, when you have no proof yourself that muslims have killed more people.

Nixt (Forum Moderator) Can we please try to stick to the topic at hand, which is veils and not whether Muslims have killed more people than Christians!

[FlyingJesus]

To be fair Zazz, if you're going to admit that there's no proof either way of which religion has killed more (Christians have done a lot but Muslims have been around a lot longer so could go either way, my money's still on Christians killing more though) then why bother saying anything about it? It doesn't even have anything to do with the argument at hand.

Nixt (Forum Moderator) Can we please try to stick to the topic at hand, which is veils and not whether Muslims have killed more people than Christians!

[Acidulantes]

I never said anything about anyone killing anyone actually...
You cant go making stuff up because youve run out of things to say...

Whereas its a well known fact that it was muslim extremists that did the July 7th, where is there any story whatsoever that christians have killed anyone anywhere??

[Zazz]

Muslims kill christians all the time in predominantely muslim countries.

Oh yh you never^:rolleyes:


I never said anything about anyone killing anyone actually...
You cant go making stuff up because youve run out of things to say...


Whereas its a well known fact that it was muslim extremists that did the July 7th, where is there any story whatsoever that christians have killed anyone anywhere??

Aren't american soldiers christians?

Im not making up anything. You seem to be the one giving points but no evidence here.

Nixt (Forum Moderator) Can we please try to stick to the topic at hand, which is veils and not whether Muslims have killed more people than Christians!

[FlyingJesus]

Aren't american soldiers christians?

What, all of them?


Im not making up anything.

Yeah you are (see above)

[Acidulantes]

I dont really think any right minded christian would of gone into that war... and do you really think I would of said 'I didnt say muslims killed christians' if I remembered me doing so?

I meant making stuff up, about christians doing the killing... and I really dont think you can blame a religion for an entire nations army, run by that nations government for however many people they killed...

[Mentor]

I never said anything about anyone killing anyone actually...
You cant go making stuff up because youve run out of things to say...

Whereas its a well known fact that it was muslim extremists that did the July 7th, where is there any story whatsoever that christians have killed anyone anywhere??
Would you like an archive of newspaper storys about what the Ku klux clan got up to or a historical article on the crusades?

Nixt (Forum Moderator) Can we please try to stick to the topic at hand, which is veils and not whether Muslims have killed more people than Christians!

[Acidulantes]

Are you kidding? The KKK?? Yea Im sure you can call them model christians cant you... idiot.

Anyways we're not talking about the KKK or some random old people from the 12th century or w/e... this is about muslim women wearing veils that look creepy and intimidating...

[BL!NKEY]

Are you kidding? The KKK?? Yea Im sure you can call them model christians cant you... idiot.

Anyways we're not talking about the KKK or some random old people from the 12th century or w/e... this is about muslim women wearing veils that look creepy and intimidating...

I am sure all muslims are terrorists too.

[FlyingJesus]

To be honest, whether they're "good" Christians or not makes no difference. Most Western Muslims (and I'm sure a good few Eastern Muslims) view the extremists as bad examples of their religion, doesn't make them any less Muslim.

Anyway, this isn't what the thread's about, so no more about who killed who more because it bears no reference to the debate.

[Acidulantes]

Oh no no no... if I said end it, and you two mention it again, I think Ill keep talking about it... Did the KKK actually kill because they thought it was what God wanted? And was the crusades because God told them too? Cos thats what the extremists use for excuses... wether theyre good at their religion or not...

[BL!NKEY]

I agree.

All christians were not KKK members.

All muslims are not plotting to blow things up while walking down the street in a vail.

[FlyingJesus]

Oh no no no... if I said end it, and you two mention it again, I think Ill keep talking about it... Did the KKK actually kill because they thought it was what God wanted? And was the crusades because God told them too? Cos thats what the extremists use for excuses... wether theyre good at their religion or not...

Yes to both, the KKK believed blacks were an abomination of God's children, and the Crusades were attempts to spread Christianity at the end of a lance.

Seriously, stop talking about this, the discussion is meant to be about whether Muslims should be required to remove their veils.

[Mentor]

Oh no no no... if I said end it, and you two mention it again, I think Ill keep talking about it... Did the KKK actually kill because they thought it was what God wanted? And was the crusades because God told them too? Cos thats what the extremists use for excuses... wether theyre good at their religion or not...

ah.. that made me laugh... maybe you should read why the KKK did the things they did, and Why the crusades were though, then youd figure out how stupid what you just said was, lmao.


Anyway, for once im with Flyingjesus, This debate isnt to do with who killed who, this is just an offshoot with little point.
The veil has nothing to do with exstreamism.

*stops talking about it*

I still support the right to ware it, as i belive that is a freedom. I belive whoever owns a property also has the freedom to enforce what ever rules they may want on anyone wnating to enter there property. SO its up to the shop owner what someone can ware in there store for exsample "/

[Acidulantes]

Ok then, put yourself in a muslims shoes... your a muslim women, you love allah and all that, you wear a veil because you think its what the kuran says you should do, you walk into a shop, the shopkeeper is white, your not, he says can you please remove the veil while your in my shop, what would you do? honestly now. and however I typed my last post, it wasnt meant to sound sarcastic.

[Zazz]

Ok then, put yourself in a muslims shoes... your a muslim women, you love allah and all that, you wear a veil because you think its what the kuran says you should do, you walk into a shop, the shopkeeper is white, your not, he says can you please remove the veil while your in my shop, what would you do? honestly now. and however I typed my last post, it wasnt meant to sound sarcastic.

I would say no sorry, and just get out the shops. Theres always lots more shops around.

[FlyingJesus]

Ok then, put yourself in a muslims shoes... your a muslim women, you love allah and all that, you wear a veil because you think its what the kuran says you should do, you walk into a shop, the shopkeeper is white, your not, he says can you please remove the veil while your in my shop, what would you do? honestly now. and however I typed my last post, it wasnt meant to sound sarcastic.

If you're a chav, you love Tupac and all that, you wear a hood because you think it's what the ghettothugs say you should do, you walk into a shop, the shopkeeper is a goth, you're not, he says "can you please remove the hood whilst you're in my shop", what would you do?

It's exactly the same, it's all to do with security and not letting yourself feel threatened. Surely anyone can understand that if you can't see someone it's a bit intimidating.

[-Dispute]

I think it is unfair that my girlfriend got her scarf sent off her when it was freezing, and a muslim got away with wearing the thingy they were on their head, i understand its there religion but not in school

[---MAD---]

Wearing the viel is like wearing any other piece of clothing for Muslim women. Imagin being ask to take your top off or you would not be allowed to work at a school for example?

I am sure you would all say "HECK NO, I AM OUT". I doubt any one of you would just take your top of and start teaching lol.

[Zazz]

I think it is unfair that my girlfriend got her scarf sent off her when it was freezing, and a muslim got away with wearing the thingy they were on their head, i understand its there religion but not in school

I wear a hijab but I still get cold in winter, the hijabs arent as thick as a scarf you know.

[Acidulantes]

So thats even worse then... lol anyways I think there should be a poll with this thing cos it sounds like its only me and flying jesus arguing one side, with zazz, redstrato and 11010101010101010101 whenever he feels like saying something...

[RedStratocas]

Okay, my opinion in full answer:

Muslim women should be allowed to wear veils, in most and appropriate scenarios. If a woman wearing one walks into a store or shop or private business, it should be up to the owner to decide whether or not to make her take it off. If she is forced to take it off, she either has to take it off, or leave (Im sure there are many places where she could go and not get any trouble). Public and governmental buildings, yes, they should take it off. Simply out of respect and obviously security. However, in most public places, I stand firmly by they should be allowed. No, bombs wont be hidden under them (you can hide a bomb easily in your shoe, so it doesnt make a difference). People being intimitated by them is a personal problem, not a national problem. If you think its rude for someone to wear a veil and talk to them, thats YOU, not a nation.

[Zazz]

So thats even worse then... lol anyways I think there should be a poll with this thing cos it sounds like its only me and flying jesus arguing one side, with zazz, redstrato and 11010101010101010101 whenever he feels like saying something...


That wouldnt be a good idea, as people could create clones to increase votes.

[-:Undertaker:-]

End of the Day - Your in Britain, Britain is a Christian country, If you respect the British way of life then surely you won't mind taking off your veil.

I don't mind the Head Scarfs but the Full face veils should be banned banned banned.

[Immenseman]

Surely it should be up to them?
I personally find it quite intimidating when they have one of those full face veils. :)

[Ezzie.]

This is an English country and if they live here they should have the decency to follow our way of life, it also gives a security risk and anyone could be under that veil and noone would know.

[tortellini]

whateva floats their boats

[BL!NKEY]

End of the Day - Your in Britain, Britain is a Christian country, If you respect the British way of life then surely you won't mind taking off your veil.

I don't mind the Head Scarfs but the Full face veils should be banned banned banned.


They dont accept the christian way of life because they are Muslims and have differnt views.

And they do mind taking off their veil.

I can see if they were in a private place and someone told them they needed to remove their veil but just walking down a street it shouldnt be a problem.

Anyone could wear a mask walkind down the street and it would pose a security risk.

[PenguinFluid]

no they should be banned
if they dont like it then they can go bck to wereevea they come from if a few years theres gunna b more muslims in england than english ppl. Evan americans are coming over as imigrants now and they wonder why british youth and crime is so high when they let in all the scum and terroists
i got banned from my local shop for wearing a ny cap and then loadz of muslims go in wearing masks and things
im not racist its just i get p****fd off when all i c at like asdas is muslims. they wouldnt let us into thier country
Conclusion: Britin should control who comes into the country like Austarlia. And ban tese head masks. If They protest deport them.

i also think britain should be harsher on the law andim only 12 lol

[---MAD---]

I think you guys forget that there are MUSLIM brits? Where do you want them to go? Your saying, they should just go back to their country if they don't like it. Well what if their country is the UK? Where on earth do they go...

Secondly, if you wanted to wear something and someone tells you take it off, would you? I bet not ;).

Oh and to the post above, get your facts right, crime is mostly comited by the british themselves, not others, dont shift the blame just to get an excuse ;). Also, any terrorist that kills anyone IS NOT a muslim. You are NOT meant to kill people in any religion.

[PenguinFluid]

Oh and to the post above, get your facts right, crime is mostly comited by the british themselves, not others, dont shift the blame just to get an excuse ;). Also, any terrorist that kills anyone IS NOT a muslim. You are NOT meant to kill people in any religion.

there are religons that kill ppl ie terroist religions not neccessary muslims but still immagrants
I bet ur one of those yobs urself and idnt blame the british cause they were taught that they can get away with no punishmmnetie the law
even killers get like 6months now its disgusting anyway m8 ur forum name is wat u r

[Zazz]

no they should be banned
if they dont like it then they can go bck to wereevea they come from if a few years theres gunna b more muslims in england than english ppl. Evan americans are coming over as imigrants now and they wonder why british youth and crime is so high when they let in all the scum and terroists
i got banned from my local shop for wearing a ny cap and then loadz of muslims go in wearing masks and things
im not racist its just i get p****fd off when all i c at like asdas is muslims. they wouldnt let us into thier country
Conclusion: Britin should control who comes into the country like Austarlia. And ban tese head masks. If They protest deport them.

i also think britain should be harsher on the law andim only 12 lol

When you say 'english people' that could mean anyone. Im english and I'm sure alot of other people on this forum are. Muslims dont wear masks. LOL.
If you mean the Muslims wouldnt let you in to their countries, than your wrong. lol head masks. didnt you read the title of this thread?


there are religons that kill ppl ie terroist religions not neccessary muslims but still immagrants
I bet ur one of those yobs urself and idnt blame the british cause they were taught that they can get away with no punishmmnetie the law
even killers get like 6months now its disgusting anyway m8 ur forum name is wat u r

Theres no such thing as a terrorist religion, terrorist are people who cause terror on people. So anyone can be a terrorist really. Before you start insulting people with their forum names, why dont you find out what this debate is actually about. *Not head masks*

[Starburst..x]

Personally I find religion causes way too many problems, wars etc, and without I really think half these problems would not be caused, everyone likes to believe their religion is correct BUT surely how can all religions be right?
anyway lol
A little while ago there was this huge uproar about people wearing hoodies and not being able to see their faces, what the difference with a full face veil? Should the same rules apply?
Personally I don't have anything against a normal veil where you can see the whole face veil, I just dont think full face veils should be worn for places like schools-like if your a teacher or something

[Herman]

a few years theres gunna b more muslims in england than english ppl.
Is that a problem? Whatever happened to the term 'multi-cultural society'?


i got banned from my local shop for wearing a ny cap and then loadz of muslims go in wearing masks and things
How many times must I repeat that a CAP does not relate to a religion whereas a veil does? Can't you see that there's a difference? God.


im not racist its just i get p****fd off when all i c at like asdas is muslims. they wouldnt let us into thier country
Don't let you in the country? Whatever gave you that ridiculous idea? Don't say things without proof or evidence.


And ban tese head masks. If They protest deport them.
If the UK banned caps in public areas I'm sure you'd protest too. So in that case you'll get deported too?