Sodom and Gomorah and Homosexuality

[king_maxx]

Personally I'm against homosexuality and I come from a country where gay's are permitted to get married. I want to hear a gay person's perspective on Genesis 19 Sodom and Gomorrah and homosexuality in perspective with conscent and marriage.

thankyou

[mmhmm.]

iunno if they care what the bible says cuz its pretty obvious that the bible and christians are against homosexuality.
(i'm not a lesbian)

[king_maxx]

Not all Christians are against homosexuality, however it seems to me that most gay's seem to not follow religion because every religion despises it.

[foxyfox00]

Alot of gay people are religious. You know why they dont follow a religion. Not because they dont believe because many were outcast from a church when people found knew about their sexuality. Also there are many parts of the bible that are unrealistic like Revelations[sp] that alot of cathoilcs/christians dont believe in, but its not about wheter the bible is right or wrong.

Personally im not gay myself, but you should like some one as a person based on how they are, not their sexuality.

[king_maxx]

The book of Revelations is the most contreversal and well written book in the bible. I believe what David wrote is yes, contreversal. But saying that many Christians don't believe in the book of Revelations as a truthful source is completely false, or else it would not be in the International bible in the new Testament. However I belivee your comment on the Book of Revelations tends to be irrelavent considereing it focuses on all of man's problems and illnesses not just homosexuality

[Ostinato]

I'm a Christian and I know, and have many friends, who are homosexual.

[Uwe]

If there is a God then he has the power to 'cure' gays, right?
If God has a problem with us then why doesn't he do something about it, he has the power right?
One in ten people are gay, look at it this way, probley about 3 people who you consider your best friends are gay.

edit: I probley just added something nothing to do with the thread, I don't understand all the bible books things -sobs-

[FlyingJesus]

The Genesis passages are about the cities where people bum each other get destroyed, but they aren't the only bits that condemn homosexuality. Somewhere in (I think) Leviticus there is a line "man must not lie with another man as he lies with a woman" which directly addresses the issue.

Fair enough, society has changed, and I personally have nothing against homosexuals, but I don't think that the church should change their views just because of society changing. I think God would get a tad annoyed if people kept changing His word (as they do, a lot of Bible rules/regulations aren't followed any more).

On the topic of homosexual Christians: if they are truly Christians they should not have a sexual relationship with others of the same sex (although actually there's no Bible law on lesbianism I don't think). You can say it's unfair and that they should be allowed due to "free will", but they have the free will to choose whether to follow God's law or not. If they are true Christians they will respect, love and fear God enough to work His word no matter what their physical urges involve - Christianity shouldn't have been allowed to be turned into the "easy" religion that it is.

[Mentor]

o.0 well for one thing, It should probably be noted that the refrance to homosexualy from the start was a mistranslation... it origanly refered to touching children... theres quite a big differnce... ignoreing that, as its to late, and i cant be arsed to sorce it right now..

Anyway to be more specifit, Gensis 19 doesnt say what the sodimates did... yet Ezekiel 16:49. claims the sins of Sodom were pride, gluttony, sloth, greed, and failure to help the poor.

Which is why i find the assoration between sodomites and homosexualy a little confuseing... but meh.

o.0 i would go in to more issues, but im tired and i think what i said has more aless answered your spesific question, alothough technicaly isnt actualy a gay persons prospective "/

[FlyingJesus]

Leviticus 18:22

"Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination."

[Mentor]

Leviticus 18:22

"Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination."

"Keep my statutes, and observe them; I am the Lord; I sanctify you. All who curse father or mother shall be put to death; having cursed father or mother, their blood is upon them." Leviticus 20:9

I hope you never swore at one of your parents :)

"And ye shall do no work in that same day: for it is a day of atonement, to make an atonement for you before the LORD your God.
For whatsoever soul it be that shall not be afflicted in that same day, he shall be cut off from among his people."
Leviticus 23:28/23:29

I hope now one has a sunday job... else its death for them as well... nice man that Leviticus

[Lycan]

Relgion doesn't control todays world -

we no longer have holy wars that is only used in conjunction with terroists now

so why do we have to fear gay.. use it as a weapon against others

i have gay friends , my brother is gay

and if i'm write 'aploygising before you die , asking for forgiveness , all sins will be forgiven' then woudn't having a gay life then aploygising for it then dying? but what is there to aploygise for... being happy... loving someone

why do have a problem today?

it will be fixed tomorrow but should of been fixed yesturday

[king_maxx]

foolish. No offence but The Sodomites wanted Sex with Lot's male visitors and the city was burned because EVERY person in Sodom practised homosexuality, except Lot's family.

written by FlyingJesus : The Genesis passages are about the cities where people bum each other get destroyed, but they aren't the only bits that condemn homosexuality. Somewhere in (I think) Leviticus there is a line "man must not lie with another man as he lies with a woman" which directly addresses the issue.

Im afraid Leviticus shares the same beliefs as Genesis seing as both contain laws similar to Mosaic Law and are both in the Torah.

[king_maxx]

I do not work on the Sabbath day and have never striked my parents. Mosaic Law is harsh and unrealistic but that is why muslims are what they are....

EternalMasque (Super Moderator) Please don't double post within the 15 minute time limit.

[FlyingJesus]

"Keep my statutes, and observe them; I am the Lord; I sanctify you. All who curse father or mother shall be put to death; having cursed father or mother, their blood is upon them." Leviticus 20:9

I hope you never swore at one of your parents :)

"And ye shall do no work in that same day: for it is a day of atonement, to make an atonement for you before the LORD your God.
For whatsoever soul it be that shall not be afflicted in that same day, he shall be cut off from among his people."
Leviticus 23:28/23:29

I hope now one has a sunday job... else its death for them as well... nice man that Leviticus

I'm not a Christian, but despite those things obviously being outdated in society, I do think that anyone who calls themselves Christians should adhere to their own teachings. Saying "times have changed" is no excuse for changing your religion, it's complete blasphemy.

In that, yes I believe that Christians should not swear at their parents (in fact I don't think anyone should swear at their parents, just out of respect. I know I never have) and the thing about working on the Sabbath was changed in the New Testament by Jesus, so that's no longer relevant but for a good reason. If Jesus states a change then fair enough, it's a change, but I don't think society should be able to change rules of religion.

[Mentor]

foolish. No offence but The Sodomites wanted Sex with Lot's male visitors and the city was burned because EVERY person in Sodom practised homosexuality, except Lot's family.

written by FlyingJesus : The Genesis passages are about the cities where people bum each other get destroyed, but they aren't the only bits that condemn homosexuality. Somewhere in (I think) Leviticus there is a line "man must not lie with another man as he lies with a woman" which directly addresses the issue.

Im afraid Leviticus shares the same beliefs as Genesis seing as both contain laws similar to Mosaic Law and are both in the Torah.

Would you mind pointing out these Genisis 13, sodomites crimes refrances becuse there looking pretty made up to me right now "/ As you rambling about what you think they did, doesnt actualy count it as being part of the bible.


FlyingJesus: My quote was mainly to illstrate a simlar point to what you said, about chrisians picking and chooseing what parts of the bible to follow, the genral concensus is usealy that the new testiment overrides the old one. Yet if people useing the old testiment to tell people certain things = hell, then they realy have to abide by ALL the stated there, From weekly sacrivces, stoneing disobediant children to death, and staying clear of sea food which is pretty much a go straight to hell, do not pass go, do not collect 200£ card "/

[Bef]

End of the day, who gives a SHIAAT? Im catholic yeh? Oh well, do i have a problem with gay people? NO. Everyone is ther own person and can express themselves in there own way.

[king_maxx]

Jesus Christ, yes I have said it.

I'm not sure if this board blocks off curses and rants but i'd love to send about 500 at you right about now. First off Sodom and Gamorah is..omg i cant even explain this to such a person of yourself. Let's get something straight first ok? IT'S GENESIS 19! NOT 13!. ok I was offended that you would misplace the Holy Torah like that, now I have a question for you..I would like to know what u are asking here is it " prove what the Sodomites did was a crime" obviously practising homosexuality was a crime because God blew the ?@#! out of the city correct? now if you're asking " prove that they were batty boy's then this is much easier they wanted sex with Lot's male visitors. please read Genesis 19 maybe...3-13 or sumwhere around there i would think it is prolly verse 5 or 6. Second of all, these laws u stated which are in the Old Testement apply to Judaism and not Christianity.

Finally this applies to everyone else.... "God made us gay! God wants us to be who we are! People are born gay! and Finally my favourite, Everyone is ther own person and can express themselves in there own way. Yes of course you're all born gay :) and Mohammed is evil right? Come on now how could people say that expressing yourself in your own way in terms of homosecuality is ok; I mean have you ever seen a bull have sex with a bull or anyother animal for that instance. Answer : No. Homosexuality was a man maid thing not a God Given thing

I believe that is all thanks and sorry for the inproper spelling and grammer I wrote this all double-time because I was upset at the inproper Bible refrications.

[-LegoNeek-]

If there is a God then he has the power to 'cure' gays, right?
If God has a problem with us then why doesn't he do something about it, he has the power right?
One in ten people are gay, look at it this way, probley about 3 people who you consider your best friends are gay.

edit: I probley just added something nothing to do with the thread, I don't understand all the bible books things -sobs-
Ant your wrong even if god wanted to cure gays he couldt as he gave people free will
I personally do not believe in all that stuff AS all this religious crap is the cause of most problems
The bilble is aload of CRAP ;l
People cnt help the way they are you dnt randomly wake up one day "oh today i will be gay" then a few days later change back ;l
Well someone people might do that for a laugh, But if your actually gay you cannot stop being like that, however much you try and its the same with, Gender, Race, Looks :s
You cnt have it ;l
Your allowed you view and everything but once againist all this religious crap is causing problems AGAIn ;l
Its the cause of most problems in the world ;l

[Mentor]

Jesus Christ, yes I have said it.

I'm not sure if this board blocks off curses and rants but i'd love to send about 500 at you right about now. First off Sodom and Gamorah is..omg i cant even explain this to such a person of yourself. Let's get something straight first ok? IT'S GENESIS 19! NOT 13!. ok I was offended that you would misplace the Holy Torah like that,
Ok, first of im going to take it that your stupid.

Why?
Becuse unless your jewish the old testiment is counted as part of the Bible not the Torah. If your jewish you dont go and start a rant with the words "Jesus Christ" ...

I quoted the relivent sectioned and refernced them already, all youve done is bull**** about a load of stuff never mentioned in the bible "/ I seriosly cant be arsed to memorise the bible when im nether christan or jewish, I at least know the jist of it, unlike you it seems..


now I have a question for you..I would like to know what u are asking here is it " prove what the Sodomites did was a crime" obviously practising homosexuality was a crime because God blew the ?@#! out of the city correct? now if you're asking " prove that they were batty boy's then this is much easier they wanted sex with Lot's male visitors. please read Genesis 19 maybe...3-13 or sumwhere around there i would think it is prolly verse 5 or 6. Second of all, these laws u stated which are in the Old Testement apply to Judaism and not Christianity.
...
Ok, first thing, try reading Genisis 19. You may notice a distinct lack of ANY MENTION OF THE CRIMES OF SODOM... now if you read, Ezekiel 16:49 it does mention a few NON OF THEM WERE HOMOSEXUALTY.

So, what have i leant so far.
1) your an idiot
2) you dont appear to have ever read the bible
3) Your makeing stuff up.

And i thought id just mention, This ENTIRE STORY IS IN THE OLD TESTIMENT. So if your christan and useing that defence EVERY YOU HAVE SAID SO FAR is now Negated, if your Jewish, Everything ive discredited still stands. So both ways, ive pretty much destroyed your arugument...



Finally this applies to everyone else.... "God made us gay! God wants us to be who we are! People are born gay! and Finally my favourite, Everyone is ther own person and can express themselves in there own way. Yes of course you're all born gay :) and Mohammed is evil right? Come on now how could people say that expressing yourself in your own way in terms of homosecuality is ok; I mean have you ever seen a bull have sex with a bull or anyother animal for that instance. Answer : No. Homosexuality was a man maid thing not a God Given thing

Ill take this as proof your even stupider than i orignaly though... homosexuality is VERY VERY VERY common place within the animal kingdom, tune in to the discovery channel sometime maybe...
Also what does mohammid have to do with this?

Maybe i should clame, pizza tastes nice, which means a giant watermellon will attack the earth.... The logic is crap, and thats exsactly the logic you just used?

[king_maxx]

hahahah! please being offensive and calling people stupid does not make you a stronger man. Ok first of all you do realize it is Gensis 19 now and not 13 like u seemed to believe in your last post? ok THANKYOU :) now to comment on all ur ingenious comments.

OK now...THE TORAH IS THE FIRST FIVE BOOKS IN THE OLD TESTEMENT OK!?!?!?!? now Genesis is within the Torah and Judaism is based strongly on the Torah, ok!?!?!? So Genesis is part of the Holy Toah and unfortunately your wrong so please dont comment negatively if your intelligence about the subject is next to nil.

Next, You want the quotes which proves this is a crime? well here it is tough guy Genesis 19 verse 4 "Before they had gone to bed, all the men from every part of the city of Sodom—both young and old—surrounded the house. 5 They called to Lot, "Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us so that we can have sex with them." Ok!?!?! This shows that every man and child was gay within the City, both young and old so thankyou very much :). Now, you want me to prove that this is a crime??? here it is smartguy... Genesis 19 verse 13 "we are going to destroy this place. The outcry to the LORD against its people is so great that he has sent us to destroy it." These are Angels talking if you're unaware.

Now what you said here made me say a prayer for you here it is...."If your jewish you dont go and start a rant with the words "Jesus Christ" If I was Jewish ,which I'm not, why wouldn't I say Jesus Christ in Vain the Jews do not worship Jesus, they only see him as a prophet so please dont respond and hide your face from this board, please I mean this not in an offensive way so please do not interpret it so.

Ok Thirdly u stated "Ill take this as proof your even stupider than i orignaly though... homosexuality is VERY VERY VERY common place within the animal kingdom, tune in to the discovery channel sometime maybe...
Also what does mohammid have to do with this?" Ok maybe homosexuality is an characteristic of animals... Truely I would like you present some evidence that at least 1% of animals are gay because I can tell you at there are not 10% of homosexual cows or even 1% for that matter however I would like some evidence please seeing as I'm not an expert on animal sex like yourself. Finally I was saying "Mohammed is evil" comment because the pope himself said it, and I was being sarcastic saying that "Mohammed is evil , right? and you're all born gay right? basically what I was saying is that there both rediculous and false.


You told me that "The logic is crap, and thats exactly the logic you just used? Reconsider your words please and also if you decide to come back please admit that you were wrong and your unitelligence on the matter have not destroyed the argument because everything you said except for gay animals is wrong. thankyou.

[king_maxx]

Sir please respond to the points ( if ur going to show urself that is) like u saying it was Genesis 19 not 13 like you thought on page 2. You must be a man and admit ur obvious blunt mistakes like this please admit some of them so I know where we stand because you thought Sodom and Gamorrah was Genesis 13.... please tell me your mistake and man up.

[king_maxx]

Why?
Becuse unless your jewish the old testiment is counted as part of the Bible not the Torah. If your jewish you dont go and start a rant with the words "Jesus Christ" ...


Also man i just relooked this forum and saw this and i laughed.... THE OLD TESTEMENT IS PART OF THE BIBLE FOR CHRISTIANS AS WELL!!! hahaha man weak weak. And I know you were not aware about the Torah and how Judaism is based on the Torah but hey ill tell u what you gave me a good laugh reading your comments none of which were true and i proved that aquidately. :) Oh yeah remember Genesis 19 not 13 hehehe :) remember that one smart guy. I can't blame you if your knowledge is less i do participate in the church and go to a catholic school so your ignorance will be forgotten by me at least. :)

[-LegoNeek-]

im soz but idc what the bible says ;l
its probarly mostly wrong anyway

[Mentor]

hahahah! please being offensive and calling people stupid does not make you a stronger man. Ok first of all you do realize it is Gensis 19 now and not 13 like u seemed to believe in your last post? ok THANKYOU :) now to comment on all ur ingenious comments.
Ahh... the irony in what you just said... not that youd realise...


OK now...THE TORAH IS THE FIRST FIVE BOOKS IN THE OLD TESTEMENT OK!?!?!?!? now Genesis is within the Torah and Judaism is based strongly on the Torah, ok!?!?!? So Genesis is part of the Holy Toah and unfortunately your wrong so please dont comment negatively if your intelligence about the subject is next to nil.
To Jews. Its the Torah. To Christains, its the Old Testiment. Its the same book. The differnce is christains clame the new testiment overides the old testiment, makeing its contents invalid for the most part.

Jewish people tend not to use the exspression jesus christ...


Next, You want the quotes which proves this is a crime? well here it is tough guy Genesis 19 verse 4 "Before they had gone to bed, all the men from every part of the city of Sodom—both young and old—surrounded the house. 5 They called to Lot, "Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us so that we can have sex with them."

Two men? Maybe you should try reading it this time, since, firstly it was "two angles, and secondly 19:5 was "and they called to Lot, "Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us, that we may know them."

I think we should also note what a good christian Lot is trying to ***** out his daugters to protect himself "/


Ok!?!?! This shows that every man and child was gay within the City, both young and old so thankyou very much :). Now, you want me to prove that this is a crime??? here it is smartguy... Genesis 19 verse 13 "we are going to destroy this place. The outcry to the LORD against its people is so great that he has sent us to destroy it." These are Angels talking if you're unaware.
Well, here is the "god of love" committing geniside for one, So hitler definitly tryed to follow his example here. The crimes there being destroyed for are unspesifed, and Hes killing all the women as well who have no mention of commiting homosexuality? so unless god must be pretty evil if his killing innocent people again?


Now what you said here made me say a prayer for you here it is...."If your jewish you dont go and start a rant with the words "Jesus Christ" If I was Jewish ,which I'm not, why wouldn't I say Jesus Christ in Vain the Jews do not worship Jesus, they only see him as a prophet so please dont respond and hide your face from this board, please I mean this not in an offensive way so please do not interpret it so.
hide my face on this board? .... im not sure you quite understand how forums work right now? my face isnt actualy visable... where not even talking... these symbles in from of you are called letters, which go together to form words... there not my face "/
Takeing jesus's name in vain, only has meaning to a christan, the same as saying oh my god, is a little stupid for an aithiest. Christians as a whole tend to like jesus, hence the exspression is given meaning becuse of this, since the jewish community dont accept him as god, that meaning is gone.

comprenday?


Ok Thirdly u stated "Ill take this as proof your even stupider than i orignaly though... homosexuality is VERY VERY VERY common place within the animal kingdom, tune in to the discovery channel sometime maybe...
Also what does mohammid have to do with this?" Ok maybe homosexuality is an characteristic of animals... Truely I would like you present some evidence that at least 1% of animals are gay because I can tell you at there are not 10% of homosexual cows or even 1% for that matter however I would like some evidence please seeing as I'm not an expert on animal sex like yourself.
Well, if youd like to do some futher reading on the subject wikipedias a good place to start
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_animals_displaying_homosexual_behavior
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Animal_sexuality
http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,20571062-1702,00.html


Finally I was saying "Mohammed is evil" comment because the pope himself said it, and I was being sarcastic saying that "Mohammed is evil , right? and you're all born gay right? basically what I was saying is that there both rediculous and false.
The pope said it? im pretty sure hed at least be aware the mohammed is also a major profit in christanty as well?

Plus, i never met mohammed, and i dont actualy belive in "evil" in terms of people, so thats most likely false, Being born gay on the other hand, is pretty much proven, so your just ignorant on that one.



You told me that "The logic is crap, and thats exactly the logic you just used? Reconsider your words please and also if you decide to come back please admit that you were wrong and your unitelligence on the matter have not destroyed the argument because everything you said except for gay animals is wrong. thankyou.
Since ive pretty much disproved/discredited everything you said up to this point already, id have to say, this last comment does little but show you up "/
Plus, if deductive logic is still beoned your grasp, thats your probelm "/

[king_maxx]

You said " To Jews. Its the Torah. To Christains, its the Old Testiment. Its the same book. The differnce is christains clame the new testiment overides the old testiment, makeing its contents invalid for the most part.
Jewish people tend not to use the exspression jesus christ..."

Torah is onlt the first five books of the old testement and yeah well I don't know how you came to the conclusion that Jewish people tend to not use the term "Jesus Christ" because Jesus Christ is a prophet in all major religions.



You said "Well, here is the "god of love" committing geniside for one, So hitler definitly tryed to follow his example here. The crimes there being destroyed for are unspesifed, and Hes killing all the women as well who have no mention of commiting homosexuality? so unless god must be pretty evil if his killing innocent people again?"

Yes God Us Christians believe God was vengeful before Jesus died for our sins and opened up the gates of heaven. Hey but you can at least admit that you were wrong right!?!?! nope guess u failed to do that



You said "I think we should also note what a good christian Lot is trying to ***** out his daugters to protect himself "/


COME ON MAN!!!

DONT INSULT MY INTELLIGENCE BY POSTING SUCH STUPIDNESS PLEASE! LOT WAS NOT A CHRISTIAN! COMPREHEND? THIS IS GENESIS!!!! FIRST BOOK IN THE BIBLE!!! YOU THINK THERE WERE CHRISTIANS!?!?! MORON USE UR HEAD!



You said "Well, if youd like to do some futher reading on the subject wikipedias a good place to start
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...exual_behavior
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Animal_sexuality
http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599...2-1702,00.html"


How bout this buddy!!!! you supply me websites that cannot be edited by any person in the world how bout sumthing a little mroe official! use your head.



Finally you said "The pope said it? im pretty sure hed at least be aware the mohammed is also a major profit in christanty as well?

Plus, i never met mohammed, and i dont actualy belive in "evil" in terms of people, so thats most likely false, Being born gay on the other hand, is pretty much proven, so your just ignorant on that one."


Sorry my friend, I have done extensive research on this topic it is not proven how people become gay, the only thing that has been proven is that it is physciological but being born gay has NEVER been proven so dont post bs.

[king_maxx]

none none none mistake sorry double post

[king_maxx]

I said "Next, You want the quotes which proves this is a crime? well here it is tough guy Genesis 19 verse 4 "Before they had gone to bed, all the men from every part of the city of Sodom—both young and old—surrounded the house. 5 They called to Lot, "Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us so that we can have sex with them."

You said "Two men? Maybe you should try reading it this time, since, firstly it was "two angles, and secondly 19:5 was "and they called to Lot, "Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us, that we may know them."


FORGIVE ME FOR SAYING THIS.....Shutup.

You are a fool! Whatr do you think this means? 19:5 was "and they called to Lot, "Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us, that we may know them." It means bring them out so we can have sex with them, however it is a traditional bible you are reading, mine is international so they are exactly the same thing foool!

[king_maxx]

Isiah chapter 1 verse 9, International bible

Unless the LORD Almighty
had left us some survivors,
we would have become like Sodom,
we would have been like Gomorrah.

This is saying God killed the one's ion Sodom and Gomorrah because they were homosexual. Please Don't think that I believe Gays should be killed im not like anything near extreme as Bishop Fred Phelps but you know I'm only stating my opinion.


As for 10101010Entor i request an end to this and to shut down this board after your defence of course