• Some constructive critisism about HabboxForum's rules •

[Biseinen]

Before you read on, be warned that this is a semi-long read and that if you do comment on this and give your opinion to make sure you read it and not just 2 sentences. Thank you.

---


• Introduction -

This is not a flame thread directed at HabboxForum or any members that are apart of HabboxForum. My views do not repersent anyone elses except my own.

The following you read are opinions an they're not due to cause offense to anyone since not being directed at anyone person/member or the site its self. If you can't read other peoples opinions without shouting and ranting, then please don't read the rest of this thread.

This is constructive cristism by me, CloudClone (http://www.habboxforum.com/member.php?u=17631) so I would appreciate comments, feedback as long as they're posted in a manner which is the same as mine, respectful to all other members/staff on this forum.

• Infractions -

This is one of my biggest constructions and which I will go on about now.

We recieve infractions by Training Moderators, Moderators, Super-Moderators and anyone above this postion. (Managment, forum managers, etc...) This system in my opinion is very wrong in alot of ways. I have recieved a total of 8 infractions and 4 have been reversed, (If my memory serves me correctly). That's half of my infractions reveresed due to the mistakes of the person giving them. The ones that have been reversed have mainly been from Moderators on Trial. This is bad. They should not be given this kind of 'power' till they have been proven to give a good judgement.

Which brings me on to a point. There should be a set group of people specificially allowed to give infractions, not just everyone with a slight bit of moderation power. This is how problems and mistakes occure.

I propose that you have a selection of staff who have proved their judgment through a test or something which shows they're responsible enough to have the responsibility of handing out infractions. These people could be reconised by a certain coloured username, or displayed on a page which lists the people who are the 'Infraction Police' or whatever you want to call them.

This needs to improve. (The system is fair, if done correctly!)

• HabboxForums Rules -

Now, onto your rules here. Yes, they're rules and we have to follow them if we wish to be apart of your community, right? Yes, that is true but you seem to think that we are 10 and going to meet up with people off the internet in a secluded area where we will be kidnapped.

95% of the people on here know the risks of this and know that it should not be done.

For instance, the Myspace thing. What is the harm in giving out your myspace? Because of phedophiles? Yes, but there are those in real life, on our streets just the same as on chatrooms and such. Myspace reaches MILLIONS of people world wide and is accepted as an online community of people of ALL ages to interact, chat and be free to express opinions and such. Habbox needs to lighten up on this, there are millions upon millions of people who share there photo's of friends, themselves and even there pets. You need to see that we're not 8 and have the responsibility to make our own decisions on posting our Myspaces.

Yes, there will be people who don't want others to know there Myspace. Fine for them, then they don't post and that is their decision and WE RESPECT THAT.

Paypals new sign up menu allows people as young as 13 to register an account and when upon sending money to an Ebayer, a friend, or a subscription, it posts your full address and your full name. Now, Paypal is also used world wide by millions of young teens/adults/parents who view that and it does no harm.

• HabboxForums Rules² -

The stricness of your rules is just... Abysmal. I mean, Yes, there are people who don't follow them but you deal with them acordingly. Infractions for going 'offtopic'. Don't you think that is a bit overboard? We are mostly teenagers who want to express our opinions and have fun. (Isn't that what habbox is about? Having fun in the community?)

Sure, if someone posts a picture of a naked man, you'll warn/ban and do what you must because that is a blatent mistreat of the rules, but for the people that follow them and get the stick from the moderators or the sub-forum mangers/staff, it's a bit stupid.

You're not an official fansite and from what I've heard you don't want to be, if so then, why don't you lighten the rules up. You don't need all these rules.

For instance, signature limitation and size. It's horrible. People won't abuse if there is no rule to it and anyone who does do an extremly large image, you can just remove it, but images which are like 2 pixels bigger than the set standards and removed by a moderator for being 'too big' is just ridiculas and pathetic. (As it has happened to me)

• MSN/Instant Messengers/Myspaces. Etc... -

Why do you have a problem with this? On my profile, it says I'm from Oxford, in the united kingdom, I've said my name, I've said almost practically
my information, what more would I tell someone on Messenger? Or what more would it give away on myspace? NOTHING.

So what we have pictures of ourselves. To locate someone from a picture in a city if you did not know them or anything is slim and who in there right mind would do that? Phedophiles? Maybe, but the risk of that or anything is the same risk as any other danger in life. Getting hit by a car, getting into arguments with people, fights, hell even terrorism. It's something which is an outside factor which can't be controlled. Instant messenger is basically the same as this forum except you can have real time messages and conversations with friends you meet and you only add the people you know and people you've met. if you don't liek someone or they suggest something, theres the magical BLOCK button and you use your common sense to ignore them.

I can guarentee, 90% or more of this forum has some sort of instant messenger/myspace/picture orientated website and use it everyday correctly and safely and the fact that HabboxForum are telling us we can give it out to the people we know, OUR friends, makes no sense. This rule should be reviewed.

• Conclusion -

Please review your rules/the way you 'disiplin' us and try to think of what I've said here and maybe think about us and the community.

~ Karl

Thread closed by ,Jess, (Forum Super Moderator): Due to bump.

[brandon]

well construced post, I echo your opinion over most of those.

[---MAD---]

That is a fantastic thread. I like the way its laid out etc.

There are some very valid points such as the off topic posting rules, wrongly given out infractions. We are looking into all these and trying to improve the rules etc. Just give it time I would say.

I don't think however though that habbox would allow emails/myspace etc as its dangerous for younger people. They may not know its dangerous and just post it and not know what can happen, that's the problem with young audiences on the net.

[vibrant]

I totally agree with your infraction opinion.
Trial moderators shouldn't be given power to infraction as yes they do make mistakes and we get in trouble for their poor sense of judjement. not aimed at all trial mod <3

& Also the Myspace & Msn one. We should be given the option to give them out.
If we don't want to then we don't.
I for one wouldn't mind this and I think we should be entitled to give out our information like that.

the signature size limit is a bit ott aswell fair enough, large images take ages to load for people but yeah about the 2 px bigger that is just too far.


Overall I agree with your points that you have made.
I'd +rep you but i cant.

[brandon]

That is a fatastic thread. I like the way its laid out etc. Let me finish reading lol :p.
Omg how dare you call a thread, fat! :@

Good to see your opinion out without being locked tho

[Axel]

So much of that is true... very well done.

All of it just makes so much sense, like the signature one. But then again about that, if it was a few pixels over, and Habbox just left it, someone ele would go a few pixels over the few pixels over, etc etc, and the sigs would keep getting bigger.

But the msn/myspace, totally agree with that. And it's not like people don't pm them to each other anyway.

[dirrty]

Too much power to lower ranks. I think forum mods shouldnt be able to give infractions but since there is a report infractions, it doesnt matter.

Also, when it comes to report the infractions, the mod who gave you the infraction should not be able to reply to your report. Its not fair and that mod is not going to change his/her mind.

Good post btw. I can tell you have thought that through alot.

[---MAD---]

I totally agree with your infraction opinion.
Trial moderators shouldn't be given power to infraction as yes they do make mistakes and we get in trouble for their poor sense of judjement. not aimed at all trial mod <3

& Also the Myspace & Msn one. We should be given the option to give them out.
If we don't want to then we don't.
I for one wouldn't mind this and I think we should be entitled to give out our information like that.

the signature size limit is a bit ott aswell fair enough, large images take ages to load for people but yeah about the 2 px bigger that is just too far.


Overall I agree with your points that you have made.
I'd +rep you but i cant.
Well thats how we decide if a moderator can pass. If they can't decide properly as a trialist mod, how will they be able to do so as normal mods. This gives them a chance to show they know what they are doing :).

[Joord]

I think giving out myspace/msn should be your own choice! Links to forums that allow you to give out msn etc are not filtered, so its pointless getting punished for posting it in THIS forum.

[dirrty]

I think giving out myspace/msn should be your own choice! Links to forums that allow you to give out msn etc are not filtered, so its pointless getting punished for posting it in THIS forum.

Could have content which is not allowed or anything like that.

[vibrant]

Well thats how we decide if a moderator can pass. If they can't decide properly as a trialist mod, how will they be able to do so as normal mods. This gives them a chance to show they know what they are doing :).

ah yes but... you do have to admit some of your trial mods do give out infractions for the littlest things. I know they make mistakes but...
Okay they should have the right to give infractions but if they fail their trial then the infractions should get reversed.

[---MAD---]

ah yes but... you do have to admit some of your trial mods do give out infractions for the littlest things. I know they make mistakes but...
Okay they should have the right to give infractions but if they fail their trial then the infractions should get reversed.
Its not an easy task to reverse all the incorrect infractions unless they are reported by the users. We can't go round checking all infractions each and everyday however yes, I do agree some infractions are used too much such as off topic posting etc.

Mods are learning though, thats why they are given trials to show what they can do :).

Thanks for making such a thread in a good manner :). +rep

[8Freak8]

We're planning to loosen a few of the rules, but not the rules regarding MySpace and Messenger. I agree with the rules about MySpace.

[Biseinen]

We're planning to loosen a few of the rules, but not the rules regarding MySpace and Messenger. I agree with the rules about MySpace.

What rules will you be 'loosening'? And could you elaborate on why you agree with the MSN/MySpace rules with connection to what I said?

[Nightcrawler]

I Agree And Show My Support If This Dosnt Change I Think a Protest or Partistion (sp) Should be Started

[Italic]

Well thought out and written thread. Valid points there + rep.

Ok, lets start. I do agree that trialist moderators do tend to make mistakes more than the more experienced moderators, since they are new to the job. Taking away their right to infract people wouldn't be the ideal solution. That is the main purpose of the trial, for the management to see if they are capable enough to become a permanent moderator. There isn't any other ways to cut down on the errors by not gaining experience. Yes, of course they make some mistakes, but you can easily report the unfair infraction in the thead given.

A lot of the rules seem to be too strict and I agree to loosen them up a bit, especially the off topic rules. Members should be allowed to express their views, have fun and go off topic a bit without being infracted etc.

The signature rules are fine how they are. If we allow signatures to go 2 pixels over the limit then members with 3 pixels over the limit will complain that theirs is only a pixel over. It will be endless. Although I do believe that members should not be infracted for a signature rule violation (unless they continue to do so).

And just to finish up, I don't think that the MySpace rules should be changed. If people's photos are on their MySpace and they give it away for the HxF community to see, I guarantee that people will insult other about how they look eg. 'omgz u suk u have purple hair'. Remember the 'Post your leg' threads?

Overall a good thread, well done :)

[boyslikegirls]

myspace should be allowed.
you decide whos your friend or not on there.

[infatuation]

for the most part, I agree with alot of this.
The rules should be loosened up, if not a little bit.

[BL!NKEY]

Some good points.

I agree that some mods might try to give out infractions as much as they can so they look like they are needed. (All of the infractions I have gotton have been reversed)

But with the sig thing. Like others have posted. There needs to be a limit which is enforced. If the new rule is that you can go 2 pixles over the limit then why not just make the limit 202 pixles or whatever.

When you make a document in photoshop or whatever you can select what size you want it. I think there should be a sig limit on not just pictures but also text. When looking at a forum I dont want to see a long story in size 48 font about how someone wants to have babies with one of the forum mods.

About the Myspace and Im thing. if you want to get your myspace or msn to another forum member you can find a way. (pm or habbo) A post your myspace url thread will not help the young habbo audience which also goes on habbox.

Maybe a different forum section that you can only view if your age is older then 15 and you have been on the forum for over a month. It could be a forum where you could post myspace urls and pictures of yourself. (not others)

This would encourage people to stay on one accont and not get banned and make new acconts. Maybe even you need 50 posts to view and post in the forum.

Kind of a ramble but might have some good ideas.

[---MAD---]

What rules will you be 'loosening'? And could you elaborate on why you agree with the MSN/MySpace rules with connection to what I said?
If we go into detail about changes and we change our mind, we dont want to have made a promise to someone then not go through with it :). Its better to stay safe that sorry :p.

[8Freak8]

What rules will you be 'loosening'? And could you elaborate on why you agree with the MSN/MySpace rules with connection to what I said?

Just because someone doesn't mind giving out their MySpace profile, doesn't mean their friends who's pictures are on there don't mind either.

[Biseinen]

Just because someone doesn't mind giving out their MySpace profile, doesn't mean their friends who's pictures are on there don't mind either.

But they're on there to use Myspace and if they don't want other people to see there pictures and information in a more personal sense they have the options to hide all pictures and profile information from anyone who is not in there friends list.

So they accept who see's their pictures, they accept who see's there 'personal' information.

MySpace is very good at giving you the option to be very flexible.

Edit: @MAD: You party pooper. ;)

[Casanova]

I couldn't of said it better if i swallowed a book on wissdom, wit and intelligence :)
seriously well constructed and i agree to every last point, it's not just a bitter immature kid making it about recieving infractions for what they've done, you've agreed on how it CAN be done and how you agree etc.

seriously, well done!

[Biseinen]

Thanks for your comment.

[nvrspk4]

I have to admit that I do indeed respect this post due to the fact that you're not whining like some do just because they got an infraction, you laid out your points well, and had valid reasons. This doesn't necessarily mean I agree :p but it deserves a cohesive response atleast which many have given you and I'll give the same.


• Infractions -

This is one of my biggest constructions and which I will go on about now.

We recieve infractions by Training Moderators, Moderators, Super-Moderators and anyone above this postion. (Managment, forum managers, etc...) This system in my opinion is very wrong in alot of ways. I have recieved a total of 8 infractions and 4 have been reversed, (If my memory serves me correctly). That's half of my infractions reveresed due to the mistakes of the person giving them. The ones that have been reversed have mainly been from Moderators on Trial. This is bad. They should not be given this kind of 'power' till they have been proven to give a good judgement.

I agree with you on one point there. Our trial moderators as a group, not just this group, basically all groups, tend to be a bit over eager with infractions. This is really can't be helped, and by the end of their trial it has toned down. You're saying they have to prove they have good judgement, but how do they prove it if they don't have the power that they are proving they can wield? They have to be tested out with it before we can know for sure.


Which brings me on to a point. There should be a set group of people specificially allowed to give infractions, not just everyone with a slight bit of moderation power. This is how problems and mistakes occure.

I propose that you have a selection of staff who have proved their judgment through a test or something which shows they're responsible enough to have the responsibility of handing out infractions. These people could be reconised by a certain coloured username, or displayed on a page which lists the people who are the 'Infraction Police' or whatever you want to call them.

This needs to improve. (The system is fair, if done correctly!)


I don't quite agree with that. The reason is, this is primarily the purpose of the moderators in general. Also infractions need to be added just before the post is edited. Therefore the infractor would also have to edit. That's basically a forum moderator's job, so we kinda already have that in the forum moderators. If you think Trialist Forum Moderators shouldn't have it, how can we ascertain they are fit to wield the power? Only thing that would happen is regular moderators would be going a little crazy with them at the beggining, and also edits by trial moderators wouldn't recieve infractions. The only other group left is managerial staff and the managerial staff you recieve infractions from are most probably also moderators, so its not to do with managers I don't think.



• HabboxForums Rules -

Now, onto your rules here. Yes, they're rules and we have to follow them if we wish to be apart of your community, right? Yes, that is true but you seem to think that we are 10 and going to meet up with people off the internet in a secluded area where we will be kidnapped.

95% of the people on here know the risks of this and know that it should not be done.

To be quite honest, some members are ten and I've seen members as old as 16 act 10. I even saw one 28 year old who I could've sworn was 11/12. Some people just aren't that smart. Also I don't know what rule you're talking about, but I do hope you're not suggesting we allow people to arrange to meet up over the forum, as that would be bad.


For instance, the Myspace thing. What is the harm in giving out your myspace? Because of phedophiles? Yes, but there are those in real life, on our streets just the same as on chatrooms and such. Myspace reaches MILLIONS of people world wide and is accepted as an online community of people of ALL ages to interact, chat and be free to express opinions and such. Habbox needs to lighten up on this, there are millions upon millions of people who share there photo's of friends, themselves and even there pets. You need to see that we're not 8 and have the responsibility to make our own decisions on posting our Myspaces.

I can tell you that your chances of reversing the MySpace rule are pretty low. Firstly, some users who give it out on here / read it are underage and not eligible for MySpace. Secondly you have to have your parents permission or be 18+ to release that I do believe. Anyway, people could be on your profile that do not want to be exposed, and there could be swearing or personal info.


• HabboxForums Rules² -

The stricness of your rules is just... Abysmal. I mean, Yes, there are people who don't follow them but you deal with them acordingly. Infractions for going 'offtopic'. Don't you think that is a bit overboard? We are mostly teenagers who want to express our opinions and have fun. (Isn't that what habbox is about? Having fun in the community?)

I agree with your comment about how strictly mods stick to being off topic, and the rule has just changed so good for you on that :]


You're not an official fansite and from what I've heard you don't want to be, if so then, why don't you lighten the rules up. You don't need all these rules.

We're not an official fansite but we may be in the future. Also even with all these rules, we tend to attract many e-rebels, and admit it, if we loosened up these rules they'd go crazy with it. Some rules like off topic, yes, but others no.


For instance, signature limitation and size. It's horrible. People won't abuse if there is no rule to it and anyone who does do an extremly large image, you can just remove it, but images which are like 2 pixels bigger than the set standards and removed by a moderator for being 'too big' is just ridiculas and pathetic. (As it has happened to me)

Like you said, large ones should be removed. The thing is, 2 pixels isn't much, but when we say ok to 2 pixels, someone's 3 over, and they say well you let 2 pixels over, and it piles up and up and up. Even if we say, buffer of 10 pixels, people will say, but mine's only 2 over the buffer or something. The sizes will just keep increasing if we say two more than the accepted limit. That's why we have to strictly cut it off at a number.


• MSN/Instant Messengers/Myspaces. Etc... -

Why do you have a problem with this? On my profile, it says I'm from Oxford, in the united kingdom, I've said my name, I've said almost practically
my information, what more would I tell someone on Messenger? Or what more would it give away on myspace? NOTHING.

Basically, we cannot control people's safety on messenger. If people give it out, they could expose themselves to harm where we cannot maintain their security. And believe me, some need it.


So what we have pictures of ourselves. To locate someone from a picture in a city if you did not know them or anything is slim and who in there right mind would do that? Phedophiles? Maybe, but the risk of that or anything is the same risk as any other danger in life. Getting hit by a car, getting into arguments with people, fights, hell even terrorism. It's something which is an outside factor which can't be controlled. Instant messenger is basically the same as this forum except you can have real time messages and conversations with friends you meet and you only add the people you know and people you've met. if you don't liek someone or they suggest something, theres the magical BLOCK button and you use your common sense to ignore them.

Basically, we have to protect them all we can. To be honest, if someone gets tracked down by a pedophile because of a picture on HxF or something, we can be sued because technically we're legally responsible.


I can guarentee, 90% or more of this forum has some sort of instant messenger/myspace/picture orientated website and use it everyday correctly and safely and the fact that HabboxForum are telling us we can give it out to the people we know, OUR friends, makes no sense. This rule should be reviewed.

Well there are ways to get around that if you're friends, ask your friend to give them your contact etc, but giving them out over Habbox and us not enforcing the rule makes us liable. Also you must admit that there are some who don't use it responsibly.


• Conclusion -

Please review your rules/the way you 'disiplin' us and try to think of what I've said here and maybe think about us and the community.

Everything we do is really for the community, though some don't like it. I think you made some really good points, some I agree with, some I don't, but they are opinions, I think mine are right in some cases, and you think yours are right in some cases. I guess it'll be up to the rest to decide but I can tell you that the MySpace and pictures rules probably won't get changed and I don't think we'll make infraction police. However I will assure you that Seacat is aware of the problem with infractions and is working hard to solve it along with the forum management.

So overall, great post, great ideas, and thanks for actually being mature about them :p

[TimmyMallet]

This is all so true, I get an infraction for trying to get the attention of HabboxHosting support, its so unfair the service is getting worse. With an average support response time of around 36 hours now its getting silly.

[Biseinen]

So overall, great post, great ideas, and thanks for actually being mature about them :p

Well, I was orignally going to a do a post saying "I GOTZ AN INFRACTIONSS REVERSE PLS". ;)

Thank you for your comments, I understand where you're comming from in a sense but in other sense, don't agree with some of the things that you said either, but hey, thats life, opinions differ from person to person.

[8Freak8]

Thanks for your comment.

What I'm saying is, that your friends might have their profile private, but then you might have pictures of them on your profile anyway - so they're not private after all.

[Plank]

i agree with it all... + rep for explain it clearly

[sierk1]

Personally I don't mind much if people exchange msn emails, I'm sure almost everybody does that anyway, it is how most teenagers communicate with each other.
But Habbo has always been very strict against giving out emails. For example giving out your email on Habbo usually results in a permanent ban as far as I know. And as long as we are a fansite of Habbo it is good to follow their safety rules, as long as they are reasonable.
I don't know much about MySpace, but we could ask Habbo if they mind if people give it out, but I think they do.

[tbh imo no m8]

Personally I don't mind much if people exchange msn emails, I'm sure almost everybody does that anyway, it is how most teenagers communicate with each other.
But Habbo has always been very strict against giving out emails. For example giving out your email on Habbo usually results in a permanent ban as far as I know. And as long as we are a fansite of Habbo it is good to follow their safety rules, as long as they are reasonable.
I don't know much about MySpace, but we could ask Habbo if they mind if people give it out, but I think they do.
Sierk again why does it matter if habbo mind?

I think the im's on your profile should be put back on and i think people should be able to post pictures of themselves if they want to.

[Casanova]

Sierk they do mind if you give out your myspace, you get a permanant ban.

But wake up and smell the coffee, habbox is never going to be official sadly. It's rules should be loosened up, as they do not serve the status of official or the rules that abide. You really should let some rules go ;)

[tbh imo no m8]

This is why so many people migrate from habbox to other habbo fansites because habbox's rules are so uptight and strict.

[Casanova]

True, or lose interest.

[tbh imo no m8]

Exactly they would be the 2 main reasons for it.

[Catzsy]

This is why so many people migrate from habbox to other habbo fansites because habbox's rules are so uptight and strict.

Hmm yes some do migrate sometimes to a new site
but when the novelty wears they soon come back and Habbox is still extremely popular and essentially a habbo fansite. :D

[tbh imo no m8]

Yes but i believe they can stop some of the people migrating by loosening a few rules

[Biseinen]

Well, if the managment don't agree, then they don't agree I guess.

It's just a shame because you say you want to follow HabboHotel.co.uk's rules because you are a fansite and just because of that. That's following blindly just because someone else does it. Sure, if you was official and you had to uphold their rules as an example of being an official fansite, I would understand but you're not.

I'm sure you'll all familiar with this quote:

"If someone jumped off a bridge, would you do the same?"

[Eamonn]

I agree spesh with the infractions and msn one, because if I want to give my msn address to people I will just pm them it anyway as I have done on various occasions ''/

[Biseinen]

ALSO:

Infraction review from the person who actually gave it you is not a fair trial.