Proposition 24

[tekni]

A11. Do not name anybody for hacking, scripting, trashing or any other bad things - Because we don't want innocent people being accused of illegal activities, we don't allow accusing others at all. This means it's also NOT allowed to accuse Habbo-X or Habbo Staff of abusing their powers or anything else. Also posting any images of people is NOT proof of them doing anything wrong as it could be an alteration. Even if you do have proof and know its 100% real, it is still not allowed to mention that the person has scammed/hacked etc as this starts arguements.

I'm going to open up a proposition about rule A11.

I think it's unfair for people not to know which people scam/hack whatever.

Even though it is someone's opinion that they Scam it might be true and therefore people should be able to say whether someone is trusted or not.

After all - if a majority of people say that they are trusted and the odd one say they're not trusted then the majority is obviously correct.

Also - if it's not allowed to say if someone's untrusted - why is it allowed to say if someone's trusted?

Opinions?

[Samster]

Lol @ 24

And yes I agree, so many scams happen on habbox-I've been scammed a throne on here before when I used to go on habbo, but couldn't name the scammer

[Kanker.]

How would you provide proof tho.?

[tekni]

How would you provide proof tho.?
You wouldn't.

You don't have to.

The buyer or seller has to go with what he/she thinks is right and with people saying whether the buyer/seller is untrusted/trusted the buyer/seller can make their own mind up.

The buyer/seller has a right to know whether another buyer/seller is trusted/untrusted.

[Nixt]

If we were allowed to name scammers, innocent people would get accused of scamming all the time, just because someone doesn't like them. It would cause arguments all the time, taking away that rule would just not work.

We have introduced Safe Traders threads in both the Runescape and Trading forums, but it's down to you to decide whether the person is trusted or not.

[Kanker.]

You wouldn't.

You don't have to.

The buyer or seller has to go with what he/she thinks is right and with people saying whether the buyer/seller is untrusted/trusted the buyer/seller can make their own mind up.

The buyer/seller has a right to know whether another buyer/seller is trusted/untrusted.

Soz ard m8

I never trade so it doesnt bother me. ;] :rolleyes:

[tekni]

]it's down to you to decide whether the person is trusted or not.
[/B]
But if other people [mainly trusted people] say that somebody isn't trusted then it might save the person from being a victim of the untrusted trader.

It's not only in Runescape forums btw.

[Nixt]

But if other people [mainly trusted people] say that somebody isn't trusted then it might save the person from being a victim of the untrusted trader.

It's not only in Runescape forums btw.

I know it isn't.

Even if trusted people said it, it wouldn't count for anything. It would cause too many arguments quite simply, and innocent people would be attacked.

How would you like it if you knew full well you were a safe trader, and then someone accused you of scamming and your reputation was ruined from then?

[Uwe]

If we were allowed to name scammers, innocent people would get accused of scamming all the time, just because someone doesn't like them. It would cause arguments all the time, taking away that rule would just not work.

We have introduced Safe Traders threads in both the Runescape and Trading forums, but it's down to you to decide whether the person is trusted or not.


OMG GARION YOU SCAMMED ME?
See? I can easily accuse anyone I dislike [I love you Garion] of scamming me and cause problems for them. You arn't gunna get this one.

[Nixt]

OMG GARION YOU SCAMMED ME?
See? I can easily accuse anyone I dislike [I love you Garion] of scamming me and cause problems for them. You arn't gunna get this one.


Precisely. Jin also provided a marvelous example of how easy it is to fake a screenshot.

http://xs108.xs.to/xs108/06443/fake_screeny.png

So even supplying evidence on the matter does not work I am afraid!

[tekni]

I understand what you're saying of course.

But it's freedom of speach.

It's the same principel when it comes to microwaves.

If someone says:
"Oh don't go with that one - it's rubbish"
You take that into consideration, and you either avoid it because someone said it's crap, or you take a risk and see for yourself.

[Nixt]

The Microwave however, doesn't feel bad when it is accused of being crap.

Whereas, when an innocent Habbo is accused of scamming - they do.

[---MAD---]

Well I guess theres nothing stopping you from PMing a user telling him the person hes about to trade is a scammer or w/e but that down to you :). This way its private and only that user knows about it and the other user you are mentioning doesnt know about it and wont start an arugement etc.

[tekni]

Well I guess theres nothing stopping you from PMing a user telling him the person hes about to trade is a scammer or w/e but that down to you :). This way its private and only that user knows about it and the other user you are mentioning doesnt know about it and wont start an arugement etc.
But if it does stop and argument - that's what the mods are for...

[Uwe]

Adzat scammed me!!!!!!1
See, now if I was serious there you wouldn't like it?8-/

[Minix]

I'm not sure if I agree at all. :S

However, you did copy proposition 24 of a simpsons ep last week - remember, with the illegal immigrants? :P

[Jin]

Also - if it's not allowed to say if someone's untrusted - why is it allowed to say if someone's trusted?

Opinions?

Saying someone is trusted is NOT an act of defamation. I agree at times it is really annoying (for lack of a suitable phrase) when someone scams you and you can not voice your opinion on the matter but it has been a problem in the past where a person has wrongly accused a member and that particular member has had to leave the community.

On top of this, if we revoked rule A11 and people started accusing others of scaming or hacking, if that member sent an abuse report requesting for a moderator to deal with the thread. How would the moderator deal with this situation? How would they determine whether a member did or didnt scam of hack?

No matter what action they took it wouldnt be suitable,

For the accuser they would feel like their freedom of speech has been limited.

For the accused they would feel that the moderator is either ignoring their report or has deemed the topic as unacceptable.

So for that reason, I think A11 will be sticking around.

http://www.habboxforum.com/showpost.php?p=2484880&postcount=4 <--- This thread just about covers all other reasons to why we have Rule A11.

[tekni]

Understand that really.


How would the moderator deal with this situation? How would they determine whether a member did or didnt scam of hack?
They don't need too - if it got out of hand then they'd step in and close the thread or whatnot.

[nvrspk4]

Understand that really.


They don't need too - if it got out of hand then they'd step in and close the thread or whatnot.

Err so then as soon as the other person starts arguing it gets closed? Anyway if you read Jin's post that he linked above you will understand better =]

[Uwe]

Solution: Don't trade with anyone.

[tekni]

Solution: Don't trade with anyone.
Outcome: Goodbye Trade forums <3

Anyyywho - now you've cleared that up properly.

[Mentor]

o.0 The first post still has a point, Even Ebay has this feature, people can review the sellers and buyers, if a seller "scams" they get bad review telling other people, on the other hand, if someone dislikes them and just accuses them, no one is going to belive them agaisnt the other few 100 or so who know there trusted "/

[---MAD---]

Solution: Don't trade with anyone.

lol - more like dont trade unsafely. Most unsafe trades arent recommended by the game sites anyway. RS - habbo trades are against both game rules anyway :).


Understand that really.


They don't need too - if it got out of hand then they'd step in and close the thread or whatnot.

Well thats stepping in. If its not a rule you could say "why close it, we are allowed to say this and warn others".


Err so then as soon as the other person starts arguing it gets closed? Anyway if you read Jin's post that he linked above you will understand better =]

Yeah exactly.


o.0 The first post still has a point, Even Ebay has this feature, people can review the sellers and buyers, if a seller "scams" they get bad review telling other people, on the other hand, if someone dislikes them and just accuses them, no one is going to belive them agaisnt the other few 100 or so who know there trusted "/

Well I dont think you can reply to the review people put on you? And plus ebay isnt really a community so people dont know each other / interact much (to my knowledge anyway).

Thanks
MAD

[Jin]

o.0 The first post still has a point, Even Ebay has this feature, people can review the sellers and buyers, if a seller "scams" they get bad review telling other people, on the other hand, if someone dislikes them and just accuses them, no one is going to belive them agaisnt the other few 100 or so who know there trusted "/

But that system would also partially be based on a system of good posts being made after every trade so a comparison between good and bad trades can be made.

Dont forget that also ebay can moderate the trading on their website as all the transactions take place within the company however Habbox can not monitor habbo hotel trades. Also each of these reputation comments on ebay can only be made by a person who wins an auction of a certain user on a forum it is obviously a free for all to post.

[tekni]

But that system would also partially be based on a system of good posts being made after every trade so a comparison between good and bad trades can be made.

Dont forget that also ebay can moderate the trading on their website as all the transactions take place within the company however Habbox can not monitor habbo hotel trades. Also each of these reputation comments on ebay can only be made by a person who wins an auction of a certain user on a forum it is obviously a free for all to post.

Enforce Trading Moderators?