Loose Change 9/11

[24]

There was an article in todays "Daily Mail" about the attacks on 9/11. It discussed how there was a large amount of evidence to suggest that the attacks were in fact not carried out by terrorists but the US government. A video has been made by i think 4/5 Americans about this evidence and it is entitled "Loose Change". It goes on for 1hour 30mins but it is very interesting and is worth the watch.
Click here (http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=7866929448192753501) to see it.
Based on the evidence shown in this video it makes it hard to believe that 9/11 was a terrorist act. Not only does this video give evidence to show that things did not happen but it provides theories of what could of happened and in what way it benefited the Bush administration.
I thought it was a good video, i would like to know what you all think.

[cocaine]

ohmygod, another conspiracy.

cant we all leave it alone now?

[Callum.]

what matt said.

tbh, it's done.

[dirrty]

ohmygod, another conspiracy.

cant we all leave it alone now?
what he said

there will always be conspiracys coming out so its like past is past. learn from it and stuff

[24]

ohmygod, another conspiracy.

cant we all leave it alone now?

Why should it be left alone? Theres hard evidence to show that the Bush Administration did this are you happy to just accept it as it is?


what matt said.

tbh, it's done.

Whats done the conspiracy or 9/11's over and done with?

[Mrs.McCall]

For those who haven't seen Loose Change I advise them to do so. No matter what your feelings are on the conspiracy theories, it is worth a look at some of the facts given.

:)

[24]

For those who haven't seen Loose Change I advise them to do so. No matter what your feelings are on the conspiracy theories, it is worth a look at some of the facts given.

:)

Aye Thankyou, woo got quite scared then thought i was gonna be eaten alive.

[cocaine]

Why should it be left alone? Theres hard evidence to show that the Bush Administration did this are you happy to just accept it as it is?

This happened more than 6 years ago.

Whats done is done, so we should all leave it now?


Aye Thankyou, woo got quite scared then thought i was gonna be eaten alive.

Dont worry, you will ;)

[24]

I think you should give the video a chance despite how you feel atm.

[RedStratocas]

You dont fact check do you? You cant trust every fact on that movie, because most of them are proven false. In fact there's an entire book on it (thousands of pages long) that explains how every conspiracy theory is completely false. Watching the movie, I picked out many facts of error and dumb logic, which means the rest probably doesnt hold up either.

[24]

I never said that i trust every single fact on that movie, i simply argued that it presents evidence which in itself looks very logical. Please point me towards this book as i would be quite interested in reading it. And would like to know some of the errors you have found. I am extremely open to evidence/facts/points from every side of the argument.

[TheLastShadow]

Incredible. I watched it. It was just simply...amazing. To find out why they did all this, why was there no evidence etc it was just amazing. I just have one question...Why was there massive ammounts of gold stored under the WTC?

And the WTC should be left alone? Who cares if it happend 6 years ago. Your little bombings found in the trains in london what was found a terror act, im sure people still talk about that? Yet that still happend a few years back also. Plus, only like 10 ppl died in the bomb. 9/11 thousands died.

[RedStratocas]

I never said that i trust every single fact on that movie, i simply argued that it presents evidence which in itself looks very logical. Please point me towards this book as i would be quite interested in reading it. And would like to know some of the errors you have found. I am extremely open to evidence/facts/points from every side of the argument.

[Link to book (http://www.amazon.com/Debunking-11-Myths-Conspiracy-Theories/dp/158816635X)]

Well for one, the whole "twin towers on the reports" thing: The twin towers were attacked once before, so they were an obvious symbol for terrorism. Second, I looked this one up myself, steel loses 50% of its strength at 648 ° C, which is lower than jet fuel burning. And if you notice the articals Loose Changes posts, they're all from one or two days after 9/11, the time in which the least amount of information was known. So they're trusting things that are very questionable.

And you can debunk it with simple logic:

1) If the government could plan an attack with "military presision" on it's own people and get away with it, why is the war in Iraq a huge disaster?
2) Why would the government say that the terrorists were from Afghanistan and other nations if they wanted to attack Iraq? Wouldnt they say they were all from Iraq if they wanted to get the country behind the war?
3) If the government has no problem killing nearly 3000 people, why dont they just kill the people who came out with these conspiracies?

Inform yourself:
[Link (http://wtc.nist.gov/pubs/factsheets/faqs_8_2006.htm)][Link (http://www.loosechangeguide.com/LooseChangeGuide.html)][Link (http://www.loosechangeguide.com/LooseChangeGuide.html)]

[TheLastShadow]

3) If the government has no problem killing nearly 3000 people, why dont they just kill the people who came out with these conspiracies?
Because the reason why they blew up the WTC was because of all the gold underneath..But if thats the only reason why they did it, why did they go to the Pentagon and do it in the feild of pennsylviania

[RedStratocas]

Because the reason why they blew up the WTC was because of all the gold underneath

But according to Loose Change, the owner of the WTC was in on the whole plot, so why would he allow the government to steal all the money?

[24]

Well for one, the whole "twin towers on the reports" thing: The twin towers were attacked once before, so they were an obvious symbol for terrorism. Second, I looked this one up myself, steel loses 50% of its strength at 648 ° C, which is lower than jet fuel burning.

Isnt that for unprotected steel? Whereas the steel in the WTC was protected with thermal insulation which meant it could withstand higher temperatures. Plus wouldnt the steel have to be exposed to that sort of temperature for a long period of time before it would have any serious affects on it. The South tower collasped 56 mins after impact.

Found something else about steel:


Going back to the fire at the WTC, we can see that reducing the steel structure to 60% its rated strength should NOT have weakened it to catastrophic collapse, because at 60% it would still support three times the rated load. The steel structure would have to be reduced to 20% of its rated strength to collapse.

Thus, even if the fire had heated the steel to 550 degrees C (1022 F), that would not have been sufficient to cause the towers to collapse.

[RedStratocas]

Isnt that for unprotected steel? Whereas the steel in the WTC was protected with thermal insulation which meant it could withstand higher temperatures. Plus wouldnt the steel have to be exposed to that sort of temperature for a long period of time before it would have any serious affects on it. The South tower collasped 56 mins after impact.

Found something else about steel:

Well first off, if you notice, there was a plane that knocked out a good portion of the building. About 1/4 or so of the steel inside was knocked out just because of that. If there happened to be burning fuel inside the building-- but no plane that hit it-- you might have a a point. But there was a 747 that hit the side of a fairly unstable building in the first place, and if that doesnt do significant damage to it, I dont know what does.

And why are you asking me? I posted 3 links, look them up.

[Mrs.McCall]

Some of the arguments are really really flawed. However there are a few that bring up some questions.

For example, is it simply coincidence (sp?) that the owner of the WTC Complex insured the buildings just prior to the attacks?

Why haven't they released the CCTV from the garage outside the Pentagon?

What were these extra explosion noises heard?

There is explicit arguments for both sides of the spectrum. You must admit, the Loose Change movie is VERY interesting compared to the usual documentaries you get.

[24]

Well first off, if you notice, there was a plane that knocked out a good portion of the building. About 1/4 or so of the steel inside was knocked out just because of that. If there happened to be burning fuel inside the building-- but no plane that hit it-- you might have a a point. But there was a 747 that hit the side of a fairly unstable building in the first place, and if that doesnt do significant damage to it, I dont know what does.

And why are you asking me? I posted 3 links, look them up.

I have looked at 2 out of 3 of the links you provided. I think that as much as they provide the answers, they too can be just as easily questioned in regards to their validity as the conspiracy theories.
Sorry it wasnt a general question aimed at you it was more of a retorical anwser to what you posted earlier :rolleyes:.

[RedStratocas]

Some of the arguments are really really flawed. However there are a few that bring up some questions.

For example, is it simply coincidence (sp?) that the owner of the WTC Complex insured the buildings just prior to the attacks?

Actually there is an extremely good reason for that. The world trade center was bombed once before in the 90's and has had numerous threats to it in the past. Its only logical for them to put terrorist insurance on it. And 2001 was a new decade, so a lot of big businesses were renewing their insurance.

[24]

Question to Redstratocas:
If you dont wish to anwser this then im totally fine with that, but i was just curious as to which political party you support (in America). Democrats or Republican?

[Russia]

This isnt what the people who died wanted.

[RedStratocas]

Question to Redstratocas:
If you dont wish to anwser this then im totally fine with that, but i was just curious as to which political party you support (in America). Democrats or Republican?

Democrat. Well, actually Im a major left-leaning independent, but Democrat is definatly what I lean to.

[24]

aa well i can agree with ya there. Although i dont live in America if i had to choose a party it would be the Democrats.

[RedStratocas]

aa well i can agree with ya there. Although i dont live in America if i had to choose a party it would be the Democrats.

Well they arent very dependable.

[FrozenWhisper]

My grandad has a theory on this. Something to do with the way the floors collapsed.

[Filipe]

At the end of the day, if he wants to post this let him do so, it has nothing to do with you, September 11th 2001 is a day to remember, the whole world wont forget those days, some of you morons say "why post it, its another conspiracy" yeah so? it would be totally different if this was say a football matter, you guys would be involved some people on this forum dont know what its like to have say there dad killed in a bombing attack, so just leave the guy who posted this alone, and move on. Ill remember that day, and loads of people will. Just stop being e-rebels and picking on people to make you look better on a chatboard.

[:Hazel]

too many of these silly theories about now.

[Tiuhdur]

too many of these silly theories about now.


and who are you to prove these so called "silly" theories wrong?

[cocaine]

At the end of the day, if he wants to post this let him do so, it has nothing to do with you, September 11th 2001 is a day to remember, the whole world wont forget those days, some of you morons say "why post it, its another conspiracy" yeah so? it would be totally different if this was say a football matter, you guys would be involved some people on this forum dont know what its like to have say there dad killed in a bombing attack, so just leave the guy who posted this alone, and move on. Ill remember that day, and loads of people will. Just stop being e-rebels and picking on people to make you look better on a chatboard.

well everyones entitled to their opinion, it doesnt revolve around you.

[Mrs.McCall]

Anyone watching that 9/11 conspiracy programme on BBC2 on Sunday?

[24]

O i might watch that what time is it on. Is it this Sunday (18th)?

[Mrs.McCall]

O i might watch that what time is it on. Is it this Sunday (18th)?

Yeah @ 9

[plastiKKstars]

too many of these silly theories about now.
you don't know if they're silly or not. if you don't like these 'silly' theories, don't come on this thread.
idiot.


and who are you to prove these so called "silly" theories wrong?

Edited by J1MI (Super Moderator) - Please don't insult other forum members.

[:Hazel]

and who are you to prove these so called "silly" theories wrong?


you don't know if they're silly or not. if you don't like these 'silly' theories, don't come on this thread.
idiot.

I am allowed my own opinion & this whole conspiracy theory logic is way out of hand now. too many ifs and buts & i bet nothing will ever be proved.

[DJ-Precocious]

If you saw the program on BBC2 the other day you would know that all the "hard Evidence" Is also easilly Contradicted. If you didnt watch it then You should, Although i cba to put all of it in this I will tell you that I and most people have come to terms with the fact that it was a TERRORIST act and that although our hearts may want it to be more than just a thoughtless act, our brains have told us to understand the truth.

EDIT: Sorry didnt see that you may have watched it but if you did, do you still feel the same about the conspiracy theory now?

[Djcafc.]

i just watched most of it i thought it was very convincing and you really should watch it its very interesting

[---MAD---]

If you saw the program on BBC2 the other day you would know that all the "hard Evidence" Is also easilly Contradicted. If you didnt watch it then You should, Although i cba to put all of it in this I will tell you that I and most people have come to terms with the fact that it was a TERRORIST act and that although our hearts may want it to be more than just a thoughtless act, our brains have told us to understand the truth.

EDIT: Sorry didnt see that you may have watched it but if you did, do you still feel the same about the conspiracy theory now?
Exactly. People are just in denial and don't want to say the USA was hit by terrorists and want to make it much more complex were its simply terrorists doing what they do.

[DJ-Precocious]

TBH the people who made the video should get a real Job... Okay so Loads of People watched it and it was believable I still Have more reason to believe that The 9/11 Attack was terrorists At their worst, rather than an elaborate plot by The Bush Administration.

[BL!NKEY]

Lets see what south park has to say about this?

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4921067264576470405&q=south+park+truth

Bush starts to talk in minute 6

[-Soph-]

I don't believe it, its just another conspiracy, just because it says they have a lot of evidence that it wasn't terrorists it doesn't mean we should believe them, everyone knows how screwed up the media is nowadays.

[RedStratocas]

you don't know if they're silly or not. if you don't like these 'silly' theories, don't come on this thread.
idiot.

Ive seen all your threads, you really cant stand others' oppinions can you?

[-Soph-]

you don't know if they're silly or not. if you don't like these 'silly' theories, don't come on this thread.
idiot.

wow, so I guess you've never heard of something called a personal opinion?
Guess what, everyones entitled to one!

[FlyingJesus]

And the WTC should be left alone? Who cares if it happend 6 years ago. Your little bombings found in the trains in london what was found a terror act, im sure people still talk about that? Yet that still happend a few years back also. Plus, only like 10 ppl died in the bomb. 9/11 thousands died.

Actually no-one in Europe really talks about terrorist attacks that happen to us after a couple of months have passed, with the exception of possible news reports on police finding and trying culprits. Europe gets hit with a lot of terrorist attacks so we know how to get on with it, and no offence meant to anyone who had relatives or friends involved in 9/11 but it has been played out rather too far, just because America isn't used to being attacked.
Same with Pearl Harbour really, that wasn't a big thing but the Americans thought it was because they don't usually get attacked, whereas in England during the war we just got on with it after getting bombed daily.


3) If the government has no problem killing nearly 3000 people, why dont they just kill the people who came out with these conspiracies?

Precisely. The fact that these conspiracies and videos are allowed to exist is proof enough that they're a load of hot wang.



it would be totally different if this was say a football matter

Just stop being e-rebels and picking on people to make you look better on a chatboard.

I have reason to believe that you have no idea what you're on about.


Exactly. People are just in denial and don't want to say the USA was hit by terrorists and want to make it much more complex were its simply terrorists doing what they do.

Blimey, I'm actually in agreement with ---ANGRY--- about something. It's a case of Americans not wanting to look like they're vulnerable in any way to anyone but themselves, and it's stupid. Those who were suspected of doing the bombings (by the government, not by these videos) admitted it themselves - there have been wars about it, and as far as I know the Bush administration can't control Eastern dictators and make them make speeches about how proud they are of their terrorist attacks.

[:Hazel]

Ive seen all your threads, you really cant stand others' oppinions can you?

if thats the case then he shouldn't be posting on an opinionated forum.




wow, so I guess you've never heard of something called a personal opinion?
Guess what, everyones entitled to one!

my thoughts exactly.

[24]

It's a case of Americans not wanting to look like they're vulnerable in any way to anyone but themselves, and it's stupid. Those who were suspected of doing the bombings (by the government, not by these videos) admitted it themselves - there have been wars about it, and as far as I know the Bush administration can't control Eastern dictators and make them make speeches about how proud they are of their terrorist attacks.

How is attacking their own government not making them look weak? There are far worse things which could happen to a country than a terrorist attack and a plot by their own government is one of them. If they were trying to stop themselves from looking "vulnerable" they should of chosen a different route then attacking their own Administration........

[RedStratocas]

How is attacking their own government not making them look weak? There are far worse things which could happen to a country than a terrorist attack and a plot by their own government is one of them. If they were trying to stop themselves from looking "vulnerable" they should of chosen a different route then attacking their own Administration........

You misread his post. He was saying Americans dont want to think terrorists from a different country, especially one as stone age to us as Afghanistan, could possibly kill thousands of our lives. We'd rather think the government did it because it would mean we're still invinsible to other countries.

[24]

Hmm, yeh i did. Sorry about that. Re-reading i have no clue what he was on about there :D

[brapbrap]

Incredible. I watched it. It was just simply...amazing. To find out why they did all this, why was there no evidence etc it was just amazing. I just have one question...Why was there massive ammounts of gold stored under the WTC?

And the WTC should be left alone? Who cares if it happend 6 years ago. Your little bombings found in the trains in london what was found a terror act, im sure people still talk about that? Yet that still happend a few years back also. Plus, only like 10 ppl died in the bomb. 9/11 thousands died.

you sir, are an idiot.

56 people died actully [rip]

and. our prime minister had nothing to do with it.

[-Soph-]

Your little bombings found in the trains in london what was found a terror act, im sure people still talk about that? Yet that still happend a few years back also. Plus, only like 10 ppl died in the bomb. 9/11 thousands died.

it was far from little,
yes it is small when compared to 9/11, but it was still an act of terror.
and any act of terror is not acceptable.

[Demynx]

EY;3185714]Lets see what south park has to say about this?

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4921067264576470405&q=south+park+truth

Bush starts to talk in minute 6

Just one mistake: Its a cartoon! This is probably just a gag to make fun of 9/11 Conspiracy theories, and do you seriously beleive that that was George Bush talking? :s

[FlyingJesus]

Just one mistake: Its a cartoon! This is probably just a gag to make fun of 9/11 Conspiracy theories, and do you seriously beleive that that was George Bush talking? :s

*claps slowly* (pssst... it wasn't a serious post)

[alexxxxx]

Seen this film methinks. Kinda believe some of it.