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Kaytti
23-02-2007, 09:58 PM
This may seem confusing, but if you focus and take in everything I say you may find this interesting.
I've been explaining this to many people, and I thought it would be good to post.

Ok, 3 babies are born. They are perfectly abled and fine.
When they open there eyes they each see something different:
http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/5497/seewhatiseeir1.png

They see everything in different colours.
However when they grow up they are told the sun is YELLOW. So from now on, the sun is YELLOW.
They are told the grass is GREEN. So from now on, everything the same colour of grass is GREEN.

The only problem is, everyone is told the same thing whether or not they see different colours, all because one guy said so.
So, the question is, is the grass you see different colour to what I see?

Told you its hard to explain. Philosophy...

OMGitsaROSS
23-02-2007, 10:05 PM
Yeah because everyone has different views?

Browney
23-02-2007, 10:16 PM
Yeah. We all view the world differently.

RedStratocas
23-02-2007, 11:19 PM
Well I think that question is more litteral than you think. If what you saw as green was orange to everyone else, how would you know? No one could ever be able to find out, because you've know orange as green your whole life.

Ekalb
23-02-2007, 11:26 PM
Yeah, when I was younger and my mind wondered I thought about this, maybe all our eyes are different. To someone else the grass is what I would see as a purple but they call it green, and to me I could look at the grass as being green.

It's very weird and kinda hard to explain. Don't feel your alone in thinking about it at least once though.

kk.
23-02-2007, 11:27 PM
i talk about what your going on about all the time :) so i know exactly what you meant lol

Obviously, this answer is actually, unanswerable because no one can have two pairs of eyes and view through them. :) actually, i just thought of a cool thread lol. ill post it in a second

chilloutrich
04-03-2007, 03:58 PM
Ok, im not sure myself about this but for example, take a look at my avatar, the main colour is 'blue', ok now so if i said to somebody can you make this blue please, they would make it blue to what they see, both of us see the same blue because if he put his interpretation of blue then it wouldnt be blue for me and i would say; thats not blue.

what do you think?

Breakfloor
04-03-2007, 04:04 PM
It is possible to answer this
color something green (or the color you see the grass) and ask evryone you see is the grass that color

Simmzay
06-03-2007, 09:21 AM
No you just don't get it man. Colour is all perception, we are told what colour is what. Nobody has the same set of vision as someone else, so the appearance of various colours may differ for different people. Colour isn't the issue y'know?

I've thought about this but I had wondered less about colour/shading/brightness and wondered more about shape size and anything relative to that.

Dan2nd
06-03-2007, 12:40 PM
This is very confusing .. I've never really thought about it to be honest

:Hazel
06-03-2007, 12:45 PM
You cant really have differnet perceptions/opinions or views on colour can you? The grass is green and that is that. However I see where your coming from because people do have different views/opinions on life. IMO I don't think that was the best example to use though.

Lestah
13-03-2007, 07:32 PM
I think this is an excellent example ;) and very confusing to think about.

The answer to the question is: Maybe.

The green I see maybe the colour blue to you.

Try imagining a new colour.

Impossible... But do you know that bees can see infra-red radiation? What colour is it? Nobody knows, no way to prove it.

poll
13-03-2007, 07:35 PM
Im confused are the babies colour blind or something?

hobo
13-03-2007, 07:38 PM
i really don't understand.

cocaine
13-03-2007, 07:38 PM
ive read this many times and never understood it.

but yeah,

you could tell your kids that the grass is orange, but really its green, but they will think that green is orange because thats what they assosciate orange with

hobo
13-03-2007, 07:40 PM
ive read this many times and never understood it.

but yeah,

you could tell your kids that the grass is orange, but really its green, but they will think that green is orange because thats what they assosciate orange with

but surely when someone pointed out something that was actually green they'd be like, "no it isn't.."

:s

Caution
13-03-2007, 07:41 PM
Im confused are the babies colour blind or something?
No, they just see things differently.

Mentor
13-03-2007, 08:16 PM
This may seem confusing, but if you focus and take in everything I say you may find this interesting.
I've been explaining this to many people, and I thought it would be good to post.

Ok, 3 babies are born. They are perfectly abled and fine.
When they open there eyes they each see something different:
http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/5497/seewhatiseeir1.png

They see everything in different colours.
However when they grow up they are told the sun is YELLOW. So from now on, the sun is YELLOW.
They are told the grass is GREEN. So from now on, everything the same colour of grass is GREEN.

The only problem is, everyone is told the same thing whether or not they see different colours, all because one guy said so.
So, the question is, is the grass you see different colour to what I see?

Told you its hard to explain. Philosophy...


Actualy its a very simple and easy to answer problem, if youd said perseption, not so easy, but seeing, is simply the act of light reflecting off and object and entering your eye. The same data is provied to every eye that sees an object, so everyone receaves the same colour data to the cones in there eyes.

The problem comes when you say perseption, which then includes the mental proccessing of that data and haveing it formed in to what im going to refer to asl the visual image.
The problem your bringing up is simply a weak form of sceptisim, based around the problem of perseption.
The problem of perseption is, how we can know what we perseave actauly what is in the external world, we cannot pass threw the veal of perception, only are interpretation of this so called data. This being a flaw of our subjective stand point.
Then again, this is somewhat dependat on which school of though you follow when it comes to perception since phenomanlism isnt suseptable to this problem, although in that thread the exsternal world in a phyiscal form as we would normaly understand it doesnt exist at all. And we could also quite easly push sceptism to its strong point of point out there no logical link that are experiences are caused by the external world at all, and that followingly there even exists an external world, brain in a tank anyone? Then again, you can also take humes comment in to account which shows you cant even logicaly prove cause and effect at all, which causes a bit of a problem seeing as this guys supposed to be an empirasit, and ends up with his custom and habbit nesseity answer, which is pretty long winded.

Personaly, i also take humes point that sceptism bares little usefulness to common life, aka it doesnt make any difference wheather we see the same thing or not, after all, if we all call it the same thing, what difference does us seeing em differently actually make in the end?

Secondly it also depends somewhat on what you take as mind and hence what perseptions are from to begin with, since a mind brain identy theroist could quite easly demonstrate the brain states between colour recognition are the same hence the state of mine assosated, persption of the colour, is also the same in to subjects :)

Dan2nd
13-03-2007, 10:30 PM
um if my orange is your purple and my yellow is your green wouldn't the hxf skin look weird & manky to me?

FlyingJesus
13-03-2007, 10:36 PM
ive read this many times and never understood it.

but yeah,

you could tell your kids that the grass is orange, but really its green, but they will think that green is orange because thats what they assosciate orange with

Nahhh Matt that's not the question babe ^^

It's much simpler than that.

I see a blue car, and I call it blue. You see a blue car, and you call it blue. However, the colour I see as blue might be what you see as red. We still call the same colour blue because that's what everyone calls it, but what we actually see it as may be very different.

This would also account in part for different people having different psychological reactions to certain colours.

Ezzie.
14-03-2007, 12:24 AM
So basically the op's question is do we have a different perception of colour, well people are colour blind so yes.. -.-

Mentor
14-03-2007, 12:34 AM
So basically the op's question is do we have a different perception of colour, well people are colour blind so yes.. -.-

Hows that a different perception of colour? if your blind you have no perception of colour at all o.0

FlyingJesus
14-03-2007, 12:48 AM
Hows that a different perception of colour? if your blind you have no perception of colour at all o.0

Colour blind people don't see in just black and white though, their colours are mixed up. That's not quite the same as people having different colour perceptions though, as colour blindness is an actual physical defect in the eye.

TwoFooted
14-03-2007, 12:55 AM
People know what colour green is. Because at school if people need the crayon green...people dont say, 'hey dave your using a blue?'
No. They all know green is what it is. :D

Btw, my name isnt dave, just a random name I used.

BL!NKEY
14-03-2007, 01:12 AM
Woa weird you brought this up because about a month ago I was thinking of this too and trying to explain it to people.

I did some research on the internet and found some stuff about the color spectrum.

I can see what you mean by seeing colors differently and some people call this color blindness. And it is possible to tell if they see colors differently because the color spectrum.

I think they can put a set of colors that are opposite and your brain can tell if they match.

If they dont match to you maybe your spectrum is off like you are saying.

I guess someone could go through life not knowing or having tests.


I am not totaly sure but do some research about this and you might find more info.

There was also something about like some women can see more colors and the trait only sometimes get passed down.

It is weird.

Mentor
14-03-2007, 01:13 AM
Colour blind people don't see in just black and white though, their colours are mixed up. That's not quite the same as people having different colour perceptions though, as colour blindness is an actual physical defect in the eye.
o.0 im not sure what to say really, becuse you kinda answerd yourself with pretty much with what i was going to say in response to what you said.


People know what colour green is. Because at school if people need the crayon green...people dont say, 'hey dave your using a blue?'
No. They all know green is what it is. :D

Btw, my name isnt dave, just a random name I used.

Whats your point? of cause everyone would call it green, since the've all been brought up refering to that particular impession of colour as being green, reguadeless of how they actualy expernace it o.0

Shawnstra
14-03-2007, 04:35 AM
Interesting question. We might think that what we see is another colour. We will never know though :P

Marghk
14-03-2007, 05:42 AM
Sorry to burst your bubble, but its proved through the retina part of the eye that we all see the same way.

Sly
14-03-2007, 07:46 AM
I confused myself trying to work out an answer :'(

GommeInc
14-03-2007, 10:16 AM
Sorry to burst your bubble, but its proved through the retina part of the eye that we all see the same way.
Your source would be quite interesting to read or look at.

I think people are getting confused between colour blindness and general perception of colours.

TwoFooted
14-03-2007, 11:02 AM
If everybody has been brought up knowing the colour green..is called green.
Then it is green right?

Roboevil
14-03-2007, 11:17 AM
You can't assume that everyone is suddenly going to find out they're colour blind. An easy way to realise that everyone sees the same thing is within design and the colours we think go nice together. Someone mentioned that the forum would look manky to some people because all the colours would be mixed up. Besides, you can just take a colour blind test or whatever those things are, when they have an image hidden within another image made entirely of blotches, to someone who is colour blind, s/he wouldn't be able to see the hidden images because of the contrast of colours, where as a non-colour blind person could.

Mentor
14-03-2007, 05:33 PM
Sorry to burst your bubble, but its proved through the retina part of the eye that we all see the same way.
no ones asking about how the light rays entering your eye, a formed in to the signals going to your brain, its completely irrelivent to the question. The question is based on the persption of that data, how the light rays entering are eyes are interpited by our brains and represented to our consious mind, green is only the perception of that colour, and own indervidual interpretation,



You can't assume that everyone is suddenly going to find out they're colour blind. An easy way to realise that everyone sees the same thing is within design and the colours we think go nice together. Someone mentioned that the forum would look manky to some people because all the colours would be mixed up. Besides, you can just take a colour blind test or whatever those things are, when they have an image hidden within another image made entirely of blotches, to someone who is colour blind, s/he wouldn't be able to see the hidden images because of the contrast of colours, where as a non-colour blind person could.

Colour blindness is caused by damage to the eye meaning certain colour cones do not function correctly meaning the data sent to the brain is not the correct data for the partical light ray hitting it, but instead one for the wrong colour.
Again its irrelivent as the question is about how are brain interpits this sence data in to our persptions of it, after all we are not aware conusly of how that proccess is happening are we :)

Kardan
14-03-2007, 05:39 PM
All very confusing... But there's a few questions like this that we will never know the answer too...

I guess this is just one, so really, there's no need to debate over it, we're not going to get an answer anyway, but I guess it's fun to see what other people think.

Kaytti
14-03-2007, 05:57 PM
um if my orange is your purple and my yellow is your green wouldn't the hxf skin look weird & manky to me?

But this now goes into fashion. Even if you saw habbox skin as blue and red, fashion is that powerful you'd say its nice!


800th post!

Papershop
14-03-2007, 06:34 PM
Im not too sure that when a baby is born all the colours are mixed up like that. If the baby saw the sun as blue, and then was told the sun was yellow, He would assume the colour Blue was yellow, however the colour of the sun would not change to yellow. However in time, im sure he would find out that Blue is actually the colour yellow.

sorry if that didnt make sense lol

Mentor
14-03-2007, 06:59 PM
Im not too sure that when a baby is born all the colours are mixed up like that. If the baby saw the sun as blue, and then was told the sun was yellow, He would assume the colour Blue was yellow, however the colour of the sun would not change to yellow. However in time, im sure he would find out that Blue is actually the colour yellow.

sorry if that didnt make sense lol

It didnt, since you made a logical error, if he sees the sun as how we would see blue (but calls it yellow like everyone else) everything yellow would appear the same, dispite the fact differnt people may perseave that same colour in differnt ways. So theres no way they could ever learn of the differnce in perseptions, hence the debate.

Roboevil
14-03-2007, 07:08 PM
Colour blindness is caused by damage to the eye meaning certain colour cones do not function correctly meaning the data sent to the brain is not the correct data for the partical light ray hitting it, but instead one for the wrong colour.
Again its irrelivent as the question is about how are brain interpits this sence data in to our persptions of it, after all we are not aware conusly of how that proccess is happening are we :)

I'm sorry and I mean no offence but I have no idea what you're talking about, your spelling is horrific.

Mentor
14-03-2007, 07:18 PM
Run threw spell check...



Colour blindness is caused by damage to the eye meaning certain colour cones do not function correctly, meaning the data sent to the brain is not the correct data for the particular light ray hitting it, but instead one for the wrong colour.
Again its irrelevant as the question is about how are brain interprets this sense data in to our perceptions of it, after all we are not aware consciously of how that process is happening are we I'm sorry and I mean no offense but I have no idea what you're talking about, your spelling is horrific.

Or re-said?
Colour blindness is to do with damage to the eyes.
It means the eye sends the wrong signals to the brain.
Our perception is caused by how are brain interprets these signals, and represents them to our conscious mind.
So colour blindness is somewhat irrelevant to this debate topic.

Papershop
14-03-2007, 07:20 PM
EH lol

but surely if he was at school and the teacher said that the COLOUR yellow was called YELLOW (and he thought it was blue) then he would be corrected

Roboevil
14-03-2007, 07:49 PM
Colour blindness is to do with damage to the eyes.
It means the eye sends the wrong signals to the brain.
Our perception is caused by how are brain interprets these signals, and represents them to our conscious mind.
So colour blindness is somewhat irrelevant to this debate topic.

I said, I meant no offence, could you not be so rude as to correct me with the most minor spellings afterwards? Don't insult my spelling thank you. Not to mention it's spelt "offence", not "offense", unless you're American which then it would be spelt with an S, however I'd assume otherwise owing to your spelling of the word "colour".

As of what we're talking about, I can see what you're trying to say, however it's incorrect. Colour blindness relates not just to people who can't see colour, it means people who can't differentiate different colours. I.e. their perception of the colour green, could be red to us.
Damage to the eyes can be caused during child birth or before, it can also be inherited from parents.

Papershop
14-03-2007, 07:59 PM
Yep, my uncles colourblind, he asked me if i liked his new green car... it was silver.. :D

Mentor
14-03-2007, 08:17 PM
I said, I meant no offence, could you not be so rude as to correct me with the most minor spellings afterwards? Don't insult my spelling thank you. Not to mention it's spelt "offence", not "offense", unless you're American which then it would be spelt with an S, however I'd assume otherwise owing to your spelling of the word "colour".
o.0 If you actually ment no offense, you wouldn't take offense when someone simply does the same back to you? If you dont want someone to do it to you, dont do it to them.
Its a bit hypocritical dont you think :rolleyes:
Now if you want to complain about the spell check, complain to Mozilla for using the American dictionary as the inline checker.


As of what we're talking about, I can see what you're trying to say, however it's incorrect. Colour blindness relates not just to people who can't see colour, it means people who can't differentiate different colours. I.e. their perception of the colour green, could be red to us.
Damage to the eyes can be caused during child birth or before, it can also be inherited from parents.
Thats what i said. Colour cone does not function, no signal sent to brain, say its the red colour cone (3 colour cones for guys, each for a primary colour, girls have 4) Take away the abilty to see read, your left with the data form the remaining two cones, mix your colours how ever you want, without red, alot of the stuff is going to look the same.
Although in most cases the damage to the cone isnt complete on a partial colour cone allowing partial differentiation of most colours, useually only causing an inabilty to pick out a single one. Guys aint as good at telling colours apart as girls, as they have the extra cone, same reason guys are more suseptable to colour blindness.

That aside, it still has nothing to do with the perceptions the brain creates based on the sence data its getting.

Roboevil
14-03-2007, 08:30 PM
I don't know what you're trying to prove to be honest, you said that colour blindness has nothing to do with this topic when the reason the children don't know what each colour is, is because they're colour blind.

Also, why are you spelling offence with an S when I've said otherwise? I'm not going to blame Mozilla, I'll blame you for not knowing. Also, I didn't mean to be offensive when I said you can't spell, I was pointing out the truth. Unless you want me to explain it was lies? The reason I was pointing out that your spelling was bad was not to openly criticise you, but to explain how I couldn't understand what you were talking about. The reason I said you shouldn't childishly react by trying to criticise me back was because my spelling is perfect.

Mentor
14-03-2007, 08:41 PM
I don't know what you're trying to prove to be honest, you said that colour blindness has nothing to do with this topic when the reason the children don't know what each colour is, is because they're colour blind.
Its not even that, colour blindness results in the inability to differnate between colours caused by a faulty colour cone not being able to send data back to the brain about a partial colour range which it handles.

The eye only sends data. The brain interprets the data and forms the perception. Where talking about the perception. Hence colour blindness is an unrelated issue to the problem.


Also, why are you spelling offence with an S when I've said otherwise? I'm not going to blame Mozilla, I'll blame you for not knowing.
o.0 i knew mozilla would use American spellings when using an American spelling dictionary, it was quite obvious. Common words like colour are simply added to it by habbit.


Also, I didn't mean to be offensive when I said you can't spell, I was pointing out the truth.
So since i quite obviously know i cant spell? what other reason than to try and insult me was there in pointing out this quite obvious fact? Are you just incredibly slow, or are you just attempting to deny the fact?


Unless you want me to explain it was lies? The reason I was pointing out that your spelling was bad was not to openly criticise you, but to explain how I couldn't understand what you were talking about. The reason I said you shouldn't childishly react by trying to criticise me back was because my spelling is perfect.
Your spelling is perfect now is it? Yet you couldn't even read a paragraph of text simply because it had 7 slightly mis spelt words in it... Whos acting childishly here o.0

Roboevil
14-03-2007, 09:15 PM
In accordance to the colour blindness, the reason I'm saying this is that the point of the thread is wondering whether or not the colours that we each see and what we think each colour is are actually true and if we're not just being deceived. However I'm disproving this point by saying that this couldn't be the case because of the colour blindness that would be apparent if otherwise.

Anyway, as of this spelling business, you're either not reading what I've written or choosing just to ignore me. I'll quote:


So since i quite obviously know i cant spell? what other reason than to try and insult me was there in pointing out this quite obvious fact? Are you just incredibly slow, or are you just attempting to deny the fact?


The reason I was pointing out that your spelling was bad was not to openly criticise you, but to explain how I couldn't understand what you were talking about.

Does that make any sense to you?


Your spelling is perfect now is it? Yet you couldn't even read a paragraph of text simply because it had 7 slightly mis spelt words in it... Whos acting childishly here o.0

Why on Earth would the perfection within my spelling have anything to do whether or not I can decipher what you're alien spelling is? Surely it should be the exact opposite in that I can't understand your spelling because it's completely different to the spelling I would recognise?

Mentor
14-03-2007, 09:25 PM
In accordance to the colour blindness, the reason I'm saying this is that the point of the thread is wondering whether or not the colours that we each see and what we think each colour is are actually true and if we're not just being deceived. However I'm disproving this point by saying that this couldn't be the case because of the colour blindness that would be apparent if otherwise.
As hume put over, all ideas are based on impressions, without an impression you cannot have an idea of it. Hence why i blind man doesnt just see black but instead doesnt see at all. Given the impression hence the abilty to hold an idea, the question reamins as to if these ideas would be the same, dispite orignating from a single impression ?


Anyway, as of this spelling business, you're either not reading what I've written or choosing just to ignore me. I'll quote:
Does that make any sense to you?

Why on Earth would the perfection within my spelling have anything to do whether or not I can decipher what you're alien spelling is? Surely it should be the exact opposite in that I can't understand your spelling because it's completely different to the spelling I would recognise?
How else am i supposed to interpret this but as just another attempted insult? Plus you seem to be able to read my "alien" spelling perfectly well at the moment arnt you.

brodeo
14-03-2007, 10:14 PM
I think we would know if we all had drastic changes in our eye variances because one person would say "the colour of grass is very glaring and ugly"

Mentor
14-03-2007, 10:32 PM
I think we would know if we all had drastic changes in our eye variances because one person would say "the colour of grass is very glaring and ugly"
Different people prefer different colours? different people think different colours look nice? it does fit

BL!NKEY
14-03-2007, 11:15 PM
My post was kind of skipped over


I did some research on the internet and found some stuff about the color spectrum.

I can see what you mean by seeing colors differently and some people call this color blindness. And it is possible to tell if they see colors differently because the color spectrum.

I think they can put a set of colors that are opposite and your brain can tell if they match.

If they dont match to you maybe your spectrum is off like you are saying.

I guess someone could go through life not knowing or having tests.

I am not totaly sure but do some research about this and you might find more info.


Does that make any sence?

Like the ability to match colors would be off because of the color spectrum. As in purple is at the highest part and red it at the bottom. Color needs to be in that order.

le harry
15-03-2007, 11:43 AM
I doubt it, i'm sure we all see the same thing ;).


Here's a test.

How do you describe the colour of Habbox Forum in its normal skin, dark, light, bright ;)

FlyingJesus
15-03-2007, 05:38 PM
The spelling war thing is really quite pointless. It's easy to read what Mentor says, yeah some of his spellings are off but that doesn't make his language "alien". Anyone with a half-decent perception of language can see quite clearly what he's written, and there's no point in saying otherwise and then later suddenly getting the ability to read his posts and understand entirely what he's saying.

Ezzie.
15-03-2007, 11:25 PM
Quit having a go at mentor because his spellings are off, as for your perfect spelling robo you spelt "your" as in the tense of a posession as "you're" which is the tense of directing it to somone. Such as you're a freaking idiot.

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