Giving out eMail's

[F32]

This is something that I just thought of;

Surely, if you can give out MySpace URL's which contain information of the person and because it's on an external network, it's not directly connected to HabboxForum.com then we should be able to give out eMail address'?

MSN / Yahoo / AIM are all on external networks as well - and is not directly linked to HabboxForum.com.

If the user doesn't know the person he/she has added then they can decline the invitation or just block the person anyway.

Thoughts?

[darkchicken101]

It's a way to contact the person, and so Habbox don't want them posted on the forums. I can see no problem with a link in your sig to a .txt file with your address in it, however.

[Caution]

Agreed. MySpace is an external network, so is MSN. And as you said, you have the option whether to accept or not.

[myke]

^ ditto ;)

[F32]

It's a way to contact the person, and so Habbox don't want them posted on the forums. I can see no problem with a link in your sig to a .txt file with your address in it, however.
Sorry but PM'ing on this forum is a way of contacting.
Posting a thread, replying to a thread is a way of contacting.
MySpace is a way of contacting.

[benjamin]

Yeah, coz I like need to get more people to add me lmao

[--ss--]

I think they said your allowed to post links to your email , bascily have it on a site and link it on the forum , as if anything happens to you habbox wouldn't be responsibble as its an external link you psoted where your email was found

[darkchicken101]

Sorry but PM'ing on this forum is a way of contacting.
Posting a thread, replying to a thread is a way of contacting.
MySpace is a way of contacting.

PMing and thread posting can be moderated on Habbox.

[the wombats]

your allowed to actually give your email out over PM.

[F32]

PMing and thread posting can be moderated on Habbox.
Exactly.

And what's done on MSN is nothing to do with Habbox and it's MSN's problem...

[Caution]

Doesn't look like anyones replying.:rolleyes:

[F32]

Mhmm.

Seems that way.

[ReviewDude]

The problem is that posting your email - anyone can send you abusive messages or whatever. With MySpace you have to 'accept' them before they can contact you. It's a little different. I'm not that 'au fait' with MySpace though, so I'm not sure :)

[benjamin]

The problem is that posting your email - anyone can send you abusive messages or whatever. With MySpace you have to 'accept' them before they can contact you. It's a little different. I'm not that 'au fait' with MySpace though, so I'm not sure :)
You have to accept them to MSN ;) You can block them on MSN, you can report spam from certain emails etc.

[ReviewDude]

But your MSN address is, by default, also an email address. And with emails you don't choose whether or not to accept the message. Sure you can probably deny the sender, but what's to stop them using another email address?

And in my experience, Hotmail's spam filter is less than adequate ;)

[Caution]

The problem is that posting your email - anyone can send you abusive messages or whatever. With MySpace you have to 'accept' them before they can contact you. It's a little different. I'm not that 'au fait' with MySpace though, so I'm not sure :)

You have to accept MSN contacts.

[benjamin]

But your MSN address is, by default, also an email address. And with emails you don't choose whether or not to accept the message. Sure you can probably deny the sender, but what's to stop them using another email address?

And in my experience, Hotmail's spam filter is less than adequate ;)
You can add it to junk email, you can add their new emails to junk.

Whatever happens on MySpace can happen on MSN, so you're kinda trying to fight a losing battle.

[jackass]

The problem is that posting your email - anyone can send you abusive messages or whatever. With MySpace you have to 'accept' them before they can contact you. It's a little different. I'm not that 'au fait' with MySpace though, so I'm not sure :)

What does that mean? :(

[F32]

The problem is that posting your email - anyone can send you abusive messages or whatever. With MySpace you have to 'accept' them before they can contact you. It's a little different. I'm not that 'au fait' with MySpace though, so I'm not sure :)
Same with MSN - you have to accept.

@Bio: I think it means familiar.

[Nixt]

Doesn't look like anyones replying.:rolleyes:

It may well be that management are discussing this as we speak ;). Just because you receive no reply, it does not mean your idea is not being contemplated. However it may well be that it's been immediately dismissed :P

[F32]

It may well be that management are discussing this as we speak ;). Just because you receive no reply, it does not mean your idea is not being contemplated. However it may well be that it's been immediately dismissed :P
For no good reason...

[ReviewDude]

To Liam! and Xeoro:


But your MSN address is, by default, also an email address. And with emails you don't choose whether or not to accept the message. Sure you can probably deny the sender, but what's to stop them using another email address?

And in my experience, Hotmail's spam filter is less than adequate.

Flicker:

Indeed you could do that, but the point is we don't want someone being hounded by adult material (stupid filter :p), potentially abusive emails. Plus, users could sign up those emails for spam just to annoy them ;)

Biogeneric:


au fait - being up to particular standard or level especially in being up to date in knowledge; "kept abreast of the latest developments"; "constant revision keeps the book au courant"; "always au fait on the latest events"; "up on the news"

[Uwe]

Use the PM System?

[F32]

Use the PM System?
Let's have a conversation on the PM system...

[Uwe]

no, I mean send your e-mails via the PM system if you must ;l

[F32]

no, I mean send your e-mails via the PM system if you must ;l
In all fairness; it's not the email address for emailing - I mean for IM'ing.

[ReviewDude]

Then you send them your IM address/username and we're all happy :D And also, it's easy to have a conversation on the PMs...

[F32]

Then you send them your IM address/username and we're all happy :D And also, it's easy to have a conversation on the PMs...
Missing the point... :(

[ReviewDude]

So the point is in principal? I suppose if someone wanted to give out they're email they're in that right. But it'd be too easy for them to give out someone else's, pretending it's their own.

And to anticipate your next question, yes this could also happen with myspace, but the user in question can always deny these randomers who appear all of a sudden ;)

The main difference is basically that one is an email account, one you have to 'accept' everyone new.

[F32]

You can choose to not receive emails from a certain email address...

[nvrspk4]

The thing is, we cannot condone you giving it out directly on the forum. This is because if you are allowed to give out MSN messenger on the forum, the forum becomes responsible if any harm comes directly or indirectly through this action. An example you may remember is "Helen Cross" a member who pretended her child had been exploited through MSN messenger. I'll ask if I may show you what it was, but if any of you remember she basically said "O MY DAUGHTER IS BEING MOLESTED BY YOUR MODERATOR, HE TOLD HER TO GIV HIM HER MSN N THEN THEY DID DURTYYY STUFF" but it was laid out as an adult might say it and they demanded action and stuff from Habbox. If I hadn't figured out they were using www.schoolboredom.com so we couldn't find which forum member they were as we knew it was fake, we might've had a harder time disproving it.

But basically what that goes to say is that we can be held liable for that.

The easiest way to do it really is just ask over PM if they have a certain person on their list and ask if that person can give you their address. Or ask someone on your messenger if they have that person's.

Also, regarding people saying to use the PM system, technically you shouldn't so you have to make 100% sure the person won't report you as you can get infracted and in a lot of trouble if they do report you, so try not to use that too much unless its necessary and you know they won't report you :p

[F32]

Hmm.

Interesting point you make; but wouldn't it be fair to put a clause in the rules stating 'you can exchange instant messaging addresses at your own risk'?

[Barkseh2131]

Why would you want to give your E-Mail address out to 100s of people to add you?

[F32]

Why would you want to give your E-Mail address out to 100s of people to add you?
You can decline it...

[Barkseh2131]

You can decline it...

Yeah but why would you want loads of people to add you when you can just pm the person(s) that you want to have it and avoid all the unwanted requests.

tbh you havent really give a good enough reason for them to change the rules although there is nout really wrong with giving your own email to who you want.

[Mentor]

The thing is, we cannot condone you giving it out directly on the forum. This is because if you are allowed to give out MSN messenger on the forum, the forum becomes responsible if any harm comes directly or indirectly through this action. An example you may remember is "Helen Cross" a member who pretended her child had been exploited through MSN messenger. I'll ask if I may show you what it was, but if any of you remember she basically said "O MY DAUGHTER IS BEING MOLESTED BY YOUR MODERATOR, HE TOLD HER TO GIV HIM HER MSN N THEN THEY DID DURTYYY STUFF" but it was laid out as an adult might say it and they demanded action and stuff from Habbox. If I hadn't figured out they were using www.schoolboredom.com so we couldn't find which forum member they were as we knew it was fake, we might've had a harder time disproving it.

But basically what that goes to say is that we can be held liable for that.

The easiest way to do it really is just ask over PM if they have a certain person on their list and ask if that person can give you their address. Or ask someone on your messenger if they have that person's.

Also, regarding people saying to use the PM system, technically you shouldn't so you have to make 100% sure the person won't report you as you can get infracted and in a lot of trouble if they do report you, so try not to use that too much unless its necessary and you know they won't report you :p

Kinda out of context, since A the complaint only works BECUSE you dont have genral allowences for posting email.
Secondly you were only liable in this instance becuse it was one of your moderators, Nothing to do with the email exchange, or conversations takeing place on the MSN chat network. Msn is unmonitored so even MSN isnt liable. Habbox has no obligation to look after there users off the habbox websites and cannot be held liable for anything that takes place on them, any more than you can for what people find on websites linked to from this one o.0

[beth]

i agree with adam over this, i think you should have like a "give your email out at your own risk" and then have a clause somewhere in there that states habbox is not responsible for incidents regarding msn off the forum.
i mean, you don't have to give it out & there is always the reject button. aha. {:

[Mentor]

i agree with adam over this, i think you should have like a "give your email out at your own risk" and then have a clause somewhere in there that states habbox is not responsible for incidents regarding msn off the forum.
i mean, you don't have to give it out & there is always the reject button. aha. {:
There not responsible even without the clause o.0

[beth]

There not responsible even without the clause o.0
oh well that's alright then, just making sure the proposition covered their backs too innit.

[nvrspk4]

Why would you want to give your E-Mail address out to 100s of people to add you?

He makes a good point...


Hmm.

Interesting point you make; but wouldn't it be fair to put a clause in the rules stating 'you can exchange instant messaging addresses at your own risk'?

But then what happens when a staff member gives it out :p


Kinda out of context, since A the complaint only works BECUSE you dont have genral allowences for posting email.
Secondly you were only liable in this instance becuse it was one of your moderators, Nothing to do with the email exchange, or conversations takeing place on the MSN chat network. Msn is unmonitored so even MSN isnt liable. Habbox has no obligation to look after there users off the habbox websites and cannot be held liable for anything that takes place on them, any more than you can for what people find on websites linked to from this one o.0

If we had allowances it would be our fault for allowing it to take place. And regardless, yeah its our mod, do you expect us to put rules into place saying "Normal members can give out emails, staff can't" ? That's a bit unfair. Also, the exchange happened via our Private Message system. We "allowed" it to take place thus started it, and if we had stopped it the whole thing wouldn't have happened. HOWEVER it's very important to note that this is hypothetical because "Helen Cross" was a forum member using a proxy site trying to trick us :p


i agree with adam over this, i think you should have like a "give your email out at your own risk" and then have a clause somewhere in there that states habbox is not responsible for incidents regarding msn off the forum.
i mean, you don't have to give it out & there is always the reject button. aha. {:


There not responsible even without the clause o.0

We can be responsible because we allowed it to take place. If the rule is in place, we allowed our Habbox users, within our control, guidance, and rules, to create a means to take the conversation off of the forum. Also, the argument could be brought up, "My kid was 12 he doesn't know how to judge a pedo!" and even with disclaimers its not 100% possible to offset that. I don't know the exact legal technicalities, I'm a teenager in high school so I could be wrong, I'm not a student of law, but I think I have it generally though I may be completely off, and if I am feel free to correct me :p

[Mentor]

He makes a good point...
So you can be contacted, i for one am happy to be contactable on IM or Email by anyone who wished to do so o.0


But then what happens when a staff member gives it out :p
Whats wrong with staff members being avaible on IM networks?


If we had allowances it would be our fault for allowing it to take place. And regardless, yeah its our mod, do you expect us to put rules into place saying "Normal members can give out emails, staff can't" ? That's a bit unfair.
1) No its not, Vb forum has email features directly built in to it as well as the user selectable option to show or hide it. IM adresses are also built in to it... out of the 100s of forums out there, far bigger than this one, nearly all(if not all) allow people to exchange email.
What difference is there from swapping Myspace adresses or any other website adress? its not your responciblity to moniter it. It would be like a shop not allowing shoppers to leave with any products, in case they were then held responcible for that person getting robbed.
2) why cant staff exchange emails?


Also, the exchange happened via our Private Message system. We "allowed" it to take place thus started it, and if we had stopped it the whole thing wouldn't have happened. HOWEVER it's very important to note that this is hypothetical because "Helen Cross" was a forum member using a proxy site trying to trick us :p
1) you were never liable, just gullable. If it was real, and had actualy progreesed the case wouldnt even make it in to court. Habbox is not responcible for how people user there own computers and conduct themselves on the rest of the WWW.



We can be responsible because we allowed it to take place.
IS a shop responcible if someone gets robbed when takeing home a bag of mechancdice from it?
No.
The exchange of an email, website, myspace, name etc. is all at the users risk. Habbox has no responciblty to moniter how this information is used, or what is done with it.


If the rule is in place, we allowed our Habbox users, within our control, guidance, and rules, to create a means to take the conversation off of the forum.
Which you have no right to take away. You run a forum, not a world wide dictatorship you know.


Also, the argument could be brought up, "My kid was 12 he doesn't know how to judge a pedo!" and even with disclaimers its not 100% possible to offset that.
The argument is, if a parent lets the kid use the internet un minded if there child that stupid, social services should probably be paying em a visit. Its the parents responciblty to look after there kid. Not yours, you look after a FORUM.


I don't know the exact legal technicalities, I'm a teenager in high school so I could be wrong, I'm not a student of law, but I think I have it generally though I may be completely off, and if I am feel free to correct me :p
You have no Right, Responciblty, Dutly, Obligation or any even remote requrement to look after a user, when they are no longer use the habbox website or forums. Thats what the parent or gardian is supposed to be doing.
Do you real think, everyone from the BBC to microsoft would let users exchange emails if they were in the sligest bit liabel. The email service operates themselves arent even liable. Neverlown a little habbo based forum which allowed two users to swap an email adress (a public contact means)

[nvrspk4]

So you can be contacted, i for one am happy to be contactable on IM or Email by anyone who wished to do so o.0

But I know certain members who you despise you wouldn't want having your IM.


Whats wrong with staff members being avaible on IM networks?

If they do something wrong we get complaints and possible action.



1) No its not, Vb forum has email features directly built in to it as well as the user selectable option to show or hide it. IM adresses are also built in to it... out of the 100s of forums out there, far bigger than this one, nearly all(if not all) allow people to exchange email.
What difference is there from swapping Myspace adresses or any other website adress? its not your responciblity to moniter it.

The difference is the majority of forums cater mainly to adults who are good with their own safety and its more difficult to endanger.


It would be like a shop not allowing shoppers to leave with any products, in case they were then held responcible for that person getting robbed.
2) why cant staff exchange emails?

Not quite, I'll get to it when you mentioned the Shop thing below. And because we could get angry people because of it, IE: "Helen Cross"


1) you were never liable, just gullable. If it was real, and had actualy progreesed the case wouldnt even make it in to court. Habbox is not responcible for how people user there own computers and conduct themselves on the rest of the WWW.

Yes but the reputation and safety of the forum could be damaged.


IS a shop responcible if someone gets robbed when takeing home a bag of mechancdice from it?
No.

Well it didn't happen in the shop. And if it happened in the shop some action could be taken but regardless the shop does not promote robbery therefore is not in violation.


The exchange of an email, website, myspace, name etc. is all at the users risk. Habbox has no responciblty to moniter how this information is used, or what is done with it.

Yeah, we can say that, but remember we're not just worried about covering our behinds, we are genuinely concerned with the safety of our members. Also, a lot of our members are fairly young.


Which you have no right to take away. You run a forum, not a world wide dictatorship you know.

We allow them to, just not to use our forum as a means to set up that particular means of unmoderated communication.


The argument is, if a parent lets the kid use the internet un minded if there child that stupid, social services should probably be paying em a visit. Its the parents responciblty to look after there kid. Not yours, you look after a FORUM.

Yeah, but that doesn't look very good does it? OK M8S UR KIDS ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR THEIR OWN SAFETY, TELL THEM HOW TO KEEP SAFE AND IF THEY GET ABDUCTED W/E, THEY CAN GIVE OUT LOCATIONS AT THEIR OWN RISK KKZ!!


You have no Right, Responciblty, Dutly, Obligation or any even remote requrement to look after a user, when they are no longer use the habbox website or forums. Thats what the parent or gardian is supposed to be doing.
Do you real think, everyone from the BBC to microsoft would let users exchange emails if they were in the sligest bit liabel. The email service operates themselves arent even liable. Neverlown a little habbo based forum which allowed two users to swap an email adress (a public contact means)

Yes, we have no legal obligation, but we have a moral obligation :p

[Mentor]

But I know certain members who you despise you wouldn't want having your IM.
Well who ever these people are, tell them there free to have it, its posted on my website, myspace and in pretty much every other forum profile i have internet wide.
If someones annoying me im more than capable of useing such highly advanced and sophisticated methods as clicking on the block button "/ Hell i put one of my email on ***** list (way back when) out of bordem (lead to a few laughts)


If they do something wrong we get complaints and possible action.
You tell them you dont RUN msn, and its none of your business what some kid does on his MSN account. MSN is run by Microsoft, contact them. And there supposed to be the parent, they should be looking after there own kid.


The difference is the majority of forums cater mainly to adults who are good with their own safety and its more difficult to endanger.
Actually although many forums have a far more diverse age makeup, i wouldn't say this one has members any younger than they do "/ Plus if a kid isnt capable of basic internet safely, they shouldn't be using the thing.


Not quite, I'll get to it when you mentioned the Shop thing below. And because we could get angry people because of it, IE: "Helen Cross"
People can get as angry as they like, it doesn't change facts. Nore whos actually responsible.


Yes but the reputation and safety of the forum could be damaged.
Email has nothing to do with habbox. The safety of the forum isnt changing, the safety issues around email are the same as they always were, and habbox isnt responsible for looking after peoples email usage.


Well it didn't happen in the shop. And if it happened in the shop some action could be taken but regardless the shop does not promote robbery therefore is not in violation.
And any problems that happen via email didnt happen on habbox. Habbox has nothing to do with what happens outside of habbox.
And to the second bit, im not saying habbox should promote pedo's, im saying it should let people exchange emails if they so wish.
In the same way as shop should exchange goods, but not promote robbery.

Im still unsure of how your responce differs from the point i was trying to make o.0


Yeah, we can say that, but remember we're not just worried about covering our behinds, we are genuinely concerned with the safety of our members. Also, a lot of our members are fairly young.
Habbox provides a forum, as safe internet based environment where people can talk and discuss. Habbox is responsible for operating this.
Habbox is NOT then responsible for Running the whole internet, what people do outside of this aria is not under habboxs control, hence habbox cannot be held liable. In the same way as with the following externals links to other websites.
So as concerned as you may be for the safty of users, they do use other parts of the internet anyway, so any dodgy people can easly avoide this protective system your attempting to set up. The only people effected as the every day safe users, whom are simply haveing a pointless obsticale posted in the way "/


We allow them to, just not to use our forum as a means to set up that particular means of unmoderated communication.
So linking to a website which may be provided equaly unmoderated communication is somehow different?


Yeah, but that doesn't look very good does it? OK M8S UR KIDS ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR THEIR OWN SAFETY, TELL THEM HOW TO KEEP SAFE AND IF THEY GET ABDUCTED W/E, THEY CAN GIVE OUT LOCATIONS AT THEIR OWN RISK KKZ!!
Not when you say it like a a prat no, but if you say it like a stable well ajusted human being, "Parents should be responsible for there children's well being." If the parent is not responsible, socal services are there to take over. At no point does the idea "Parents should take no responsible for there own children, children should be looked over by a load of teenagers they know over the internet" That still sounds bloody stupid to me, even when not said in prat


Yes, we have no legal obligation, but we have a moral obligation :p
Just like china has a moral obligation to oppress its people :rolleyes:

Although my argument was simply pointing out you have no legal obligation or liability, if this were allowed, which you were previously claiming. Judging from this ive established that already.

So that whole issue you raised against it has kinda disintegrated "/
Im still FOR allowing the exchange of emails, just for convenience, plus feel free to propergate my IM if you feel the need to :)