View Full Version : What do you think of habboxlive?
danny.p12345
18-04-2007, 03:26 PM
Hi guys,
As i work on Habboxlive i was just wondering what are your veiws on it, and post why, and ill try and get it sorted :)
soo yea tune in
www.habboxlive.com (http://www.habboxlive.com) (btw its also the radio that plays when you load up habbox.com )
Thanks,
DJ Dan // Head DJ
Jamie!
18-04-2007, 03:32 PM
it's alright i suppose.. don't really tend to listen though apart from the odd time.
Breakfloor
18-04-2007, 03:34 PM
Doesnt work for me so i think its ****
dannyisnotamazing
18-04-2007, 03:34 PM
I'm not really into too Habbo Radios anymore, so I can't comment really.. :]!
I've listened a few times in the past and 9 times out of 10 it's been someone on air who's gained the details and then you know.. ;p
Swastika
18-04-2007, 03:36 PM
The music doesn't suit what i like to listen to and Habbo radio's suck.
I'd rather listen to a rap/hip hop station or my local Galaxy than HabboxLive..
danny.p12345
18-04-2007, 03:40 PM
Yea that the problem people tune in, hear a song they dont like and tune out :s , thats what the request line is there for :) Habboxlive has come a long long way and has improved soo much.
,Jess,
18-04-2007, 04:20 PM
I think habboxlive is wicked, I'm not biased or anything obviously... :D
Mentor
18-04-2007, 04:42 PM
Not really, the music doesnt suit my tastes and its probably illegal, and doesnt make use of the point of why someone would listen to a radio.
Its pretty much just a loop of tracks like anyone could setup themselves except it doesnt play the music you like and is interupted by squeaky djs how talk inain uninteresting crap "/
So yea, its a pretty negative opinion on my part "/
danny.p12345
19-04-2007, 02:59 PM
lol ... yea.. oh well lol keep posting if you have ever listened. if u havnt then listen :)
H0BJ0B
19-04-2007, 04:11 PM
I think its the crappest sweet shop i've ever seen! I mean, theres no sweets! What kind of service are you offering... Sheesh.
Immenseman
19-04-2007, 04:12 PM
I think it's good judging on the times i've listened. I liked it when Rach was a DJ. :)
danny.p12345
19-04-2007, 04:13 PM
yea..... trust u ! lmao im not into giving little boys sweets they tend to get the wrong idea :D anyway... bak on topic lol
Plank
19-04-2007, 04:15 PM
I don't really like it because it's easier to just download my own music, rather than waiting for a song I want to come on while listening to someone annoying speaking or a song I hate.
I don't listen to it sowwy :(
mat64
19-04-2007, 10:42 PM
I've always avoided radios, As it's generally uninteresting. The radio isn't a winner in my book, but some people listen to them regularly and I'd like to hear an opinion of what they think of HabboxLive.
Energizer
20-04-2007, 03:38 PM
never listen to it.
-:Undertaker:-
20-04-2007, 04:16 PM
I don't listen as I can easily listen to LimeWire with MY songs and not have to listen to "err x.!candehbabex.! sends out her lurf 4 all da habboz"
Ashhizzle
20-04-2007, 04:19 PM
Not really, the music doesnt suit my tastes and its probably illegal, and doesnt make use of the point of why someone would listen to a radio.
Its pretty much just a loop of tracks like anyone could setup themselves except it doesnt play the music you like and is interupted by squeaky djs how talk inain uninteresting crap "/
So yea, its a pretty negative opinion on my part "/
I second that, I'm guessing limewire tbh :P
I mean songs :P
I dont tune into habbo-based radios anymore. So i cant really say anything.
womanizer
20-04-2007, 04:30 PM
the music is crap
Portish1
20-04-2007, 04:34 PM
I dont agree with most comments saying 'the music is crap'
When a DJ DJ's they have as a objective to play a variety of music. If u don't like one song, it doesen't mean u wont like any other!
Habboxlive is a radio witch is improving by the day and if we keep on improving the radio will become the bigest ever habbo radio.
Mr.OSH
20-04-2007, 05:17 PM
Yeah it looks alright really. :)
Caution
20-04-2007, 10:37 PM
i've only listened about 2 or 3 times when bethie was dj'ing.
Dubble
20-04-2007, 10:53 PM
Its ok i guess.
Matt.
20-04-2007, 11:00 PM
I'm not really in to habbo radios now. I used to tune in when people like Dj-Mizki and Dj-Mint djed :).
Immenseman
20-04-2007, 11:18 PM
yeah, i'd prefer to listen to my own music, but when i have tuned in it seems a pretty good radio site.
le harry
20-04-2007, 11:39 PM
Not really, to be honest it's the same songs being played like 20 times a day. Can't think once when I've sent a request, waited like 20 minutes and hasn't been played. I asked for Sweet Child O' Mine and they never played it, it's all pop rubbish.
Shawnstra
21-04-2007, 12:01 AM
Never heard it tbh, gonna try to next time, I really have no time...
Agent 47
21-04-2007, 12:04 AM
Tbh I don't like it. The same songs are played over and over, there are some really annoying DJs, and my requests never get played. Rubbish ;\
danny.p12345
21-04-2007, 08:33 AM
well.. everything that everyone has been said so far like requests not getting played, that just means that that DJ hasnt got that song so request another, 9/10 the songs that are played are requests anyway. On habboxlive its all about getting involved and the DJs try to make it so you enjoy it but if listeners arnt requesting and getting involved you wont enjoy it.
(If that makes any sence)
habboxlive.com // Head DJ
Concentric2
22-04-2007, 12:08 AM
After not having listened or used the radio in over a year i must say i'm impressed with some of the features, like the jingles (do you still call them that?) played between songs, which were only just being experimented with back then.
If i'm honest though there are still a few things that bug me about it, like DJs not waiting until a gap between songs before speaking, and the use of effects like echoes that mean we can't hear what you're saying.
Mentor
22-04-2007, 01:12 AM
Just wondering, does habboxlive run illegally still?
Since it looks alot like it does having no mention of weather or not it actually plays the license fees required for playing the music.
Ezzie.
22-04-2007, 04:45 AM
Entor you party pooper xD
But meh.. unless the site gave up all their religions, aknowledged jimmi hendrix and led zeppelin as gods, played jimmi's and led zeps songs all day along with acdc/genesis/rolling stones/kiss then I cba to listen again -.-.
Herman
22-04-2007, 05:49 AM
i don't listen to habbo radios, but i was told that habboxlive wasn't very good though.
,Jess,
22-04-2007, 07:00 AM
Just wondering, does habboxlive run illegally still?
Since it looks alot like it does having no mention of weather or not it actually plays the license fees required for playing the music.
Does any habbo radio station do that?
I'm pretty sure whatever needs to be paid for is paid for and its all legal
Mentor
22-04-2007, 12:30 PM
Does any habbo radio station do that?
I'm pretty sure whatever needs to be paid for is paid for and its all legal
No, i dont know of any habbo radio station thats not breaking a number of copyright laws at any one time? habbox is no exception.
Unless its paying the licensing fees needed to play peoples music, and the second license fee need if they want to make derviatves (like jingles) which cost upwards of £1000 im pretty sure its all illegal.
le harry
22-04-2007, 12:44 PM
Entor you party pooper xD
But meh.. unless the site gave up all their religions, aknowledged jimmi hendrix and led zeppelin as gods, played jimmi's and led zeps songs all day along with acdc/genesis/rolling stones/kiss then I cba to listen again -.-.
Don't forgot Lynyrd Skynyrd, Guns n Roses & Van Halen ;)
Ezzie.
22-04-2007, 12:53 PM
Don't forgot Lynyrd Skynyrd, Guns n Roses & Van Halen ;)
Lynryd I barely have heard :O They look quite folky?
GnR and van halen= ace :8
Oh so I don't get a warning ill be on topic: Habbox :)
No, i dont know of any habbo radio station thats not breaking a number of copyright laws at any one time? habbox is no exception.
Unless its paying the licensing fees needed to play peoples music, and the second license fee need if they want to make derviatves (like jingles) which cost upwards of £1000 im pretty sure its all illegal.
I'm pretty sure that when you purchase the SHOUTcast server that those licenses are paid for and that you don't have to pay any extra broadcasting costs unless the listeners exceed some sort of level.
Don't quote me though [:
le harry
22-04-2007, 02:15 PM
Lynryd I barely have heard :O They look quite folky?
GnR and van halen= ace :8
Oh so I don't get a warning ill be on topic: Habbox :)
Freebird / Tuesdays Gone are all pretty good. The solo on Freebird is good if you can be bothered waiting the first 4 and a half minutes for it ;)
on topic: play more rock.
danny.p12345
22-04-2007, 02:32 PM
tune in now im on air :) you know you want to
JAKkool
22-04-2007, 02:38 PM
Wooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooo!
Its the best Always will be never doubght it
Wanna be Dj!
Was put down wen sent in his application!
:( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :(
danny.p12345
22-04-2007, 08:28 PM
LOL yup it is :)
Mentor
22-04-2007, 08:47 PM
I'm pretty sure that when you purchase the SHOUTcast server that those licenses are paid for and that you don't have to pay any extra broadcasting costs unless the listeners exceed some sort of level.
Don't quote me though [:
Thats like putting a load of tv/music downloads on your website then claiming you thought it was legal because when you brought hosting you expected them to pay all the licensing fees for useing copyrighted contents.
Unless a shoutcast host specifically says its paying for these licenses, its not doing so. Broadcasting music you own copyright to, or have premission to use, say from friends whom are in bands, thats legal. Playing a copyrighted peace of music you dont have rights to, without obtaining those rights though, is illegal.
danny.p12345
23-04-2007, 10:20 AM
okay so every radio station has got to ring up every artist and pay them thousends of pounds so they can play one song :| dont think so
Arneuh
23-04-2007, 10:41 AM
WOO! FUNKY MUISIC
Mentor
23-04-2007, 03:24 PM
okay so every radio station has got to ring up every artist and pay them thousends of pounds so they can play one song :| dont think so
Well actually yes, legally you do. That or do the smart thing and ring the licensing body whom can grant a license which allows you to play the muisc of any artist, the fee is the split between the artists whos music is being used.
Its like saying a TV station dosnt have to pay the people who make tv programs... which is pretty stupid, but what your saying anyway.
danny.p12345
23-04-2007, 03:25 PM
all i can say is BOVERD !!! :)
Kymux
23-04-2007, 03:29 PM
tbh i think its a waste of bandwidth, i never listen to it, and never see the point, never any music i like and never will be...
danny.p12345
23-04-2007, 03:30 PM
oh em gee why is everyone sooo negitve :@ i bet half of the people who have replyed either havn't listened orr.. have listened for about 5mins heard a song they dont like and tuned out :@
Kymux
23-04-2007, 03:38 PM
oh em gee why is everyone sooo negitve :@ i bet half of the people who have replyed either havn't listened orr.. have listened for about 5mins heard a song they dont like and tuned out :@
whats the point in listening when they dont play music at that time that i like when i could just listen to it on my pc anytime i want? its pointless and the djs are just an annoyance added to the crap music
asher_
23-04-2007, 03:48 PM
in the words of nan from catherine tate: habboxlive... what a load of old SH'IT
,Jess,
23-04-2007, 03:52 PM
whats the point in listening when they dont play music at that time that i like when i could just listen to it on my pc anytime i want? its pointless and the djs are just an annoyance added to the crap music
in the words of nan from catherine tate: habboxlive... what a load of old SH'IT
sometimes it's nice to not say what you really think...
and this whole thing about it not being legal... surely as no one is making money off playing the music itself then it isn't legal. If we were then it would be different...
danny.p12345
23-04-2007, 03:53 PM
in the words of nan from catherine tate: habboxlive... what a load of old SH'IT
AM I BOVERD?
FACE BOTHERD?
lol
asher_
23-04-2007, 03:56 PM
sometimes it's nice to not say what you really think...
and this whole thing about it not being legal... surely as no one is making money off playing the music itself then it isn't legal. If we were then it would be different...
of course i meant it lightheartedly. although my opinion is pretty similar. the way i see habboxlive: all the dj's play illegal music. most of them are a bunch of bratty kids who live habbo. the music is bad. and well i'd rather listen to my own playlist. it makes more sense :/
danny.p12345
23-04-2007, 04:00 PM
okay :) so all your music you have got on your computer is legal? kids? oh yea 15 -18 year olds are kids :) suuuuure im gettin a bit annoyed now so im gonna stop posting
,Jess,
23-04-2007, 04:07 PM
of course i meant it lightheartedly. although my opinion is pretty similar. the way i see habboxlive: all the dj's play illegal music. most of them are a bunch of bratty kids who live habbo. the music is bad. and well i'd rather listen to my own playlist. it makes more sense :/
Ok, all the djs do not play illegal music...
"bunch of bratty kids" that's just harsh
"live habbo" well speaking for myself I only go on habbo when I dj
Fair enough if you want to listen to your own music, we all do at some point also recently there have been a lot of new djs and a lot more variety in the music that they play. If you request a song and a dj doesn't have it they probably will get it for you. Also if you have a specific taste in music it is quite likely that there is at least one dj that has the sort of music you like
If you're not interested in any habbo radio station then there is no point in posting really. Yeah the thread is about what you think about habboxlive but I suppose it is mainly aimed at people who use habbo and listen to habbo radio stations and their opinion.
Well I think lol
English
23-04-2007, 04:31 PM
all i can say is BOVERD !!! :)
You really are an unprofessional member of staff.
asher_
23-04-2007, 04:36 PM
okay :) so all your music you have got on your computer is legal? kids? oh yea 15 -18 year olds are kids :) suuuuure im gettin a bit annoyed now so im gonna stop posting
it sure is. my playlist consists of my own CD collection ripped onto my pc. any music i do download is usually from independant labels on purevolume or myspace who distrubute their music freely. unlike most of the habbox dj's and don't get me wrong, the majority of these habbo dj's, i appreciate the fact record labels and my favourite bands have to earn money and it would be stupid for me to take a chunk of their earnings away by simply not buying their cd.
i'll let you get annoyed now.
danny.p12345
23-04-2007, 05:34 PM
ok w/e :) Back on topic...
Mentor
23-04-2007, 07:19 PM
oh em gee why is everyone sooo negitve :@ i bet half of the people who have replyed either havn't listened orr.. have listened for about 5mins heard a song they dont like and tuned out :@
I agree, for the half that dont think it sucks at least.
there negative becuse in all honesty is crap. And ive got no respect for people illgaly useing copyrighted works for personal gain.
Ok, all the djs do not play illegal music...
Actually, im willing to bet every single one of them does. Since if the radio isnt paying the licences fees any music broadcast is illegal.
Kymux
24-04-2007, 04:09 PM
You really are an unprofessional member of staff.
agreed.. ..
Well, I think you lot are just emos tbh. All you care about is rock this rock that, just dont listen or reply if your gonna be horrible and take the pee!!
Ollz
danny.p12345
24-04-2007, 04:33 PM
yup This thread was made to let habboxlive staff know what people think of the radio not to take the pee out of people.
YouFail
24-04-2007, 04:45 PM
I love how you've asked what people think, they tell you honestly and you reply 'BOVERED'
Im not even going to say how bad I think it is.
Kymux
24-04-2007, 05:26 PM
I love how you've asked what people think, they tell you honestly and you reply 'BOVERED'
Im not even going to say how bad I think it is.
exactly ^^^
ill take back what i said if you can tell me one decent reason why i should listen to it rather than my own music... bearing in mind i find the DJs get in the way of the music and are annoying
Ashhizzle
24-04-2007, 05:30 PM
exactly ^^^
ill take back what i said if you can tell me one decent reason why i should listen to it rather than my own music... bearing in mind i find the DJs get in the way of the music and are annoying
And have really high voices.
and talk between every single song, and most of the time during
---MAD---
24-04-2007, 05:45 PM
Its not too bad. It has quite a lot to improve however but as with most Habbo radios, they are run by teenagers not professionals so you can't expect the same quality :).
Agent 47
24-04-2007, 06:00 PM
Well, I think you lot are just emos tbh.
How can we be emos if we listen to rock? Get your facts right.
Mentor
24-04-2007, 06:00 PM
Its not too bad. It has quite a lot to improve however but as with most Habbo radios, they are run by teenagers not professionals so you can't expect the same quality :).
Actually, i do expect the same quality, if they cant provide and arnt willing to improve till they can it they should just give up. I hate it when people use age as an excuse for being to lazy or simply to stupid to do something.
asher_
24-04-2007, 06:55 PM
Well, I think you lot are just emos tbh. All you care about is rock this rock that, just dont listen or reply if your gonna be horrible and take the pee!!
Ollz
beats shayne ward, kiddo
this thread was created to voice peoples opinions. you can't expect everyone to love habboxlive :/
,Jess,
24-04-2007, 07:32 PM
Actually, i do expect the same quality, if they cant provide and arnt willing to improve till they can it they should just give up. I hate it when people use age as an excuse for being to lazy or simply to stupid to do something.
The DJs at habboxlive are teenagers, we cannot possibly have the same amount of experience as people on "professional" radio stations. Therefore it would be stupid to expect the same quality.
The radio is aimed at teenagers and I don't think a lot of people would appreciate it if we went all ladida...
We have lives therefore cannot spend all of our time working on our shows etc..
At the end of the day we are not paid for it and I expect that proffesional radio stations have a lot more money to spend..
You cannot compare the 2.
This thread is called "What do you think of habboxlive?" not "**** of habboxlive point out all its bad points and compare it to professional radio stations"
Before you say anything, I appreciate that you don't like it but a simple I don't wish to tune into habbo radio stations or something along those lines would've been better than all of what you have said.
asher_
24-04-2007, 07:42 PM
i'll wait for entor to dissect your post and knock you into the ground a couple more inches.
-Soph-
25-04-2007, 02:53 AM
i don't listen, i prefer to listen to my own music..
Mentor
25-04-2007, 03:23 AM
The DJs at habboxlive are teenagers, we cannot possibly have the same amount of experience as people on "professional" radio stations. Therefore it would be stupid to expect the same quality.
Again, its an excuse. If your not good enough, your not good enough, it has nothing to do with age or experience.
When im programming i dont produce a shoody peace of work then say im just a teenager, so you cant exspect decent work liked youd get from an adult webdesigner. If you do that no one in the right mind is going to hire you. I program and i program properly and aim to be at least on par with everyone else doing the same job if not better.
The same apply with a radio if you cant rise to the challenge and do the job as well, why in the world would anyone tune in to an inferior radio station.
If you cant do the work or your to lazy, then so be it. But don't use pathetic excuses like "were just teenagers we cant be expected to do as well"
The radio is aimed at teenagers and I don't think a lot of people would appreciate it if we went all ladida...
Most radio stations have a target audience and cater for them. Last time i checked "Sucking" isnt very hight on what appeals to the teen market today..
We have lives therefore cannot spend all of our time working on our shows etc..
Yes as real radio station presenters dont have lifes, they are packed up in creates when not on air...
At the end of the day we are not paid for it and I expect that proffesional radio stations have a lot more money to spend..
Your volunteering to do it because you want to, so your payment isnt an issue here.
Secondly, yes they do have more money to spend, they pay decent staff to work for them instead of relying on volunteers who simply cant do the job most of the time. because they offer a better radio, more people listen to them.
That doesnt really excuse breaching copyright law now does it though? the radio station is still illegal.
You cannot compare the 2.
Yes you can. i can compare an opensoruce project to a closed source project, those working on the open source ones are volunteers, they dont get payed. But that doesnt mean they then produce a crappy application, no one would use open source stuff if they did.
So i do think the radio issue, in the same way, is very comparable.
This thread is called "What do you think of habboxlive?" not "**** of habboxlive point out all its bad points and compare it to professional radio stations"
Wow, you worked that out all by yourself?
Im not sure if you noticed, but if negative points are what people think of habboxlive, then its answering the first question, not the later. Which is whats happening here i might add.
Before you say anything, I appreciate that you don't like it but a simple I don't wish to tune into habbo radio stations or something along those lines would've been better than all of what you have said.
No it wouldn't, if i said that i wouldn't be answering the question. If youd asked "do you want to tune in to habboxlive" then maybe it would. But the thread asks what do i think of habboxlive. Thats the question im answering, and giveing an honest opinion on. This post though is more responding to what you posted rather than the thread title.
Its stupid to ask a question when you dont want to hear the answer, if i ask for someones opinion i listen to it, good or bad, not try and dispute that opinion or cover it up with a load of spin.
Dubble
25-04-2007, 06:16 AM
i don't listen, i prefer to listen to my own music..
As he said,
,Jess,
25-04-2007, 10:01 AM
Again, its an excuse. If your not good enough, your not good enough, it has nothing to do with age or experience.
When im programming i dont produce a shoody peace of work then say im just a teenager, so you cant exspect decent work liked youd get from an adult webdesigner. If you do that no one in the right mind is going to hire you. I program and i program properly and aim to be at least on par with everyone else doing the same job if not better.
The same apply with a radio if you cant rise to the challenge and do the job as well, why in the world would anyone tune in to an inferior radio station.
It has everything to do with experience. The more experience you get, the better you become at something. I'm pretty sure that when you first started web designing you couldn't of been perfect because you had to learn. I'm not saying that everyone is perfect and the radio is at the best it could be because it isn't but all the time habboxlive is improving. There are now a lot more DJs and a better variety in music. This itself I believe helps DJs including myself because we learn from each other.
If you cant do the work or your to lazy, then so be it. But don't use pathetic excuses like "were just teenagers we cant be expected to do as well"
Pathetic excuses? Like the fact that a lot of us have exams coming up in the very near future? Some of us like to let these take priority. Some of the DJs want to carry on with radio when they're older and are using habboxlive to start off. Some of us are doing it because we just like to do it. People on proffesional radio stations aren't in the middle of exams and have chosen to do it as their job. Therefore I'm sure it isn't a pathetic excuse and it is fact that there is no way on God's Earth we are going to do as well.
Most radio stations have a target audience and cater for them. Last time i checked "Sucking" isnt very hight on what appeals to the teen market today..
Ok... you lost me there
Yes as real radio station presenters dont have lifes, they are packed up in creates when not on air...
They chose to do it as there job. They are getting paid for it. Therefore they should expect to spend more time on their shows.
Your volunteering to do it because you want to, so your payment isnt an issue here.
Secondly, yes they do have more money to spend, they pay decent staff to work for them instead of relying on volunteers who simply cant do the job most of the time. because they offer a better radio, more people listen to them.
Right, obviously more people listen to their radio stations. However when you look at habboxlive as a habbo radio stations and compare it to other habbo radio stations you can see that the listeners are significantly higher. The "proffesional" radio stations pay their staff because at the end of the day they are all doing their job and it is essentially a business. Habboxlive isn't.
That doesnt really excuse breaching copyright law now does it though? the radio station is still illegal.
Do you actually realise how many online internet radio stations there are?
Do you want to go around to them all preaching the copyright law?
Do you think they'll actually listen?
At the end of the day there are more important things in this world going on. The way I see it is by playing the music we are doing no harm. We're not making money from it and if anything it can help artists. They can get recognised by a wider audience and maybe even get new fans because of people hearing their music and being aware if them.
Yes you can. i can compare an opensoruce project to a closed source project, those working on the open source ones are volunteers, they dont get payed. But that doesnt mean they then produce a crappy application, no one would use open source stuff if they did.
So i do think the radio issue, in the same way, is very comparable.
We try our best. Obviously you don't agree that our best is good enough (talk about stating the obvious). I think it is unfair of you to say that we are crappy. When was the last time you tuned in? Even if it was recently I bet it was for about 5 minutes. You can't possibly like every DJ and every show but I'm sure there is something for the majority of people.
Wow, you worked that out all by yourself?
Im not sure if you noticed, but if negative points are what people think of habboxlive, then its answering the first question, not the later. Which is whats happening here i might add.
I accept that people have negative views on habboxlive and it's perfectly acceptable for them to express them as the point of the whole thread is to get people's views. However no one else has gone on as much as you about all the bad points. I can see that you're a very strong minded person and you are mot going to change your mind but at the end of the day as a radio station it does have some good points and that is what I'm trying to say. Even if I didn't work for the site I would still see the good in it because it is there.
No it wouldn't, if i said that i wouldn't be answering the question. If youd asked "do you want to tune in to habboxlive" then maybe it would. But the thread asks what do i think of habboxlive. Thats the question im answering, and giveing an honest opinion on. This post though is more responding to what you posted rather than the thread title.
Its stupid to ask a question when you dont want to hear the answer, if i ask for someones opinion i listen to it, good or bad, not try and dispute that opinion or cover it up with a load of spin.
I'm not trying to cover it up in any way at all. Like I just said habboxlive has some good points and you're going on like it's all bad which it isn't
le harry
25-04-2007, 10:13 AM
Mentor is going to grind you down.
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