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View Full Version : The advance in robotics - Will we have to worry? - [Closes 24/05/07]



---MAD---
24-04-2007, 01:48 PM
The BBC has reported that roboticists are fearing the worst when robots are introduced into the public workforce.

Do you think we will have to worry about this in our life time or our children's life time and if so what can be done to stop it?

Please read the article before posting so that everyone understands what is going on and can debate any of the points in the article itself.

Link to article:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/6583893.stm

Happy debating!

Ashhizzle
24-04-2007, 03:49 PM
One word,

i'Robot

-:Undertaker:-
24-04-2007, 04:27 PM
Robots will NEVER take over on their own as they aren't clever, computers and robots can never be clever unless you put a human brain in it.

---MAD---
24-04-2007, 04:33 PM
Robots will NEVER take over on their own as they aren't clever, computers and robots can never be clever unless you put a human brain in it.
Actually, if you read the article, you would have saw that they have made robots (from what I gathered) that decide when to change rooms for hovering and when to return back to their base to charge up. Thats quite significant if you think about it. Moving around room to room is one big thing itself, but deciding when to do it and when to stop hovering is another massive thing that they accomplished PLUS, deciding when they need to recharge and run to base? thats way advanced. Thats like us humans going to the kitchen to eat lunch etc :).

Ashhizzle
24-04-2007, 04:40 PM
Robots will NEVER take over on their own as they aren't clever, computers and robots can never be clever unless you put a human brain in it.
Robots are getting more and more human like by the day.

Asimo, the Honda robot can now run, and climb stairs. Among other things.

Soon they'll be better than us.

Mentor
24-04-2007, 05:04 PM
Welll theres no risk in our life times, not becuse we couldnt build robots capable of doing the tasks, but becuse it would cost alot more to buy and maintain them , than to just employ a standard worker at minimum wage, so all the basic jobs on the shop floors etc, wont be going anyware, the same is true of the cleaning jobs.
Its only when you get to the better paying jobs which requre a good set of skills and usealy qualifcations useing robots would really become a benfit, although the added diffaculty would likely again put the robots capable out of a benifical price range.
So it would really be limited to a novelty thing rather than a practical one in most circumstances.

As the technolgy progresses, the prices of the technolgys will come down to the extent they likely will replace human workers on the more menial tasks, cleaning the toilets etc, the jobs most people dont really want to do anyway, which will basicly acceralte whats already happening, where the jobs are only there for the better educated work forces
"/

Just my 2 cents.

sl4rtzzzz
24-04-2007, 06:11 PM
one word no

i could never see robots "turning" on humans... they are hardly clever

like i said i dont see it happening... "N0EZ iR0BOT IS TR00!11!" :rolleyes:


cleaning the toilets
"/



wouldnt they get electricuted ? :P

Oni
24-04-2007, 07:16 PM
one word no

i could never see robots "turning" on humans... they are hardly clever

like i said i dont see it happening... "N0EZ iR0BOT IS TR00!11!" :rolleyes:



wouldnt they get electricuted ? :P
It is? Ahhhhhhhh

Mentor
24-04-2007, 08:33 PM
one word no

i could never see robots "turning" on humans... they are hardly clever

like i said i dont see it happening... "N0EZ iR0BOT IS TR00!11!" :rolleyes:

Turning on people isnt really a problem, after all how ever automius a robot may appear, its still working within the limitations of its programming, if it does something wrong the problem is down to poor design.
A far more real problem comes with fears of robots takeing peoples job.

For now, truely autonomous robots is impossible , becuse robots are not made in a way that allows it, for a robot to be able to have true choices, understanding it would have to be completely unlike anything close to what robotics uses at the moment, currently its just an emulation of such things, an illusion.


wouldnt they get electricuted ? :P
Ever heard of water proofing?

Dan2nd
24-04-2007, 09:00 PM
Welll theres no risk in our life times, not becuse we couldnt build robots capable of doing the tasks, but becuse it would cost alot more to buy and maintain them , than to just employ a standard worker at minimum wage, so all the basic jobs on the shop floors etc, wont be going anyware, the same is true of the cleaning jobs.
Its only when you get to the better paying jobs which requre a good set of skills and usealy qualifcations useing robots would really become a benfit, although the added diffaculty would likely again put the robots capable out of a benifical price range.
So it would really be limited to a novelty thing rather than a practical one in most circumstances.

As the technolgy progresses, the prices of the technolgys will come down to the extent they likely will replace human workers on the more menial tasks, cleaning the toilets etc, the jobs most people dont really want to do anyway, which will basicly acceralte whats already happening, where the jobs are only there for the better educated work forces
"/

Just my 2 cents.
Hello my name is C3PO welcome to McDonalds :D




one word no

i could never see robots "turning" on humans... they are hardly clever

like i said i dont see it happening... "N0EZ iR0BOT IS TR00!11!" :rolleyes:



wouldnt they get electricuted ? :P

You never know what if some terrorist dude like puts a virus in our Armed droids and hey turn on us and blow everything up. That would be awsome :8

Mentor
24-04-2007, 09:15 PM
Hello my name is C3PO welcome to McDonalds :D
Naa for Mcdoanlds im sure they will build a robot with poor voice recognition in to the drive threw intercom thing to take your orders.
its not as if the humans they use now can tell what your ordering anyway.

Sammeth.
24-04-2007, 09:56 PM
One word,

i'Robot

Actually, thats two words if you punctuated it how it should be punctuated - "I, Robot."

-Soph-
25-04-2007, 12:00 AM
no risk in our lifetimes.
definetly not.

but yes, I think robots will dominate one day in THOUSANDS of years to come.

:Hazel
25-04-2007, 11:54 AM
i think maybe in the future but our generation has nothing to worry about :)

boyslikegirls
25-04-2007, 10:27 PM
its hard to think about
cos a thing that isnt even alive would be taking us over

but no i dont think they will take over in our lifetime because of costs ect

Concentric2
26-04-2007, 10:41 PM
Actually, if you read the article, you would have saw that they have made robots (from what I gathered) that decide when to change rooms for hovering and when to return back to their base to charge up. Thats quite significant if you think about it. Moving around room to room is one big thing itself, but deciding when to do it and when to stop hovering is another massive thing that they accomplished PLUS, deciding when they need to recharge and run to base? thats way advanced. Thats like us humans going to the kitchen to eat lunch etc :).
I disagree. What the robots are being programmed to do is getting more complex, yes, but the robot isn't thinking for itself. The human programmed the robot to return to it's station when the battery gets low - it didn't learn to do that on its own.

-Soph-
26-04-2007, 11:14 PM
Yeah, but one day don't you think it'll be so technologically advanced that it will be able to think for itself?

I'm not talking in recent time, I mean like, a long long time away.

Aflux
27-04-2007, 04:53 PM
Well, let's hope they take over soon - think about it.

If we want this planet to survive - what doesn't need Oxygen? Robots.
If we want this planet to survive - what doesn't produce Methane? Robots.
If we want this planet to survive - what doesn't produce Carbon emissions? Robots.
If we want this planet to survive - what doesn't deforest etc? Robots.

You get the idea.

Yes, we would be `extinct` but the planet wouldn't - and I'd like that more than the planet imploding.

My two cents.

sBosma
27-04-2007, 05:21 PM
The BBC has reported that roboticists are fearing the worst when robots are introduced into the public workforce.

Do you think we will have to worry about this in our life time or our children's life time and if so what can be done to stop it?

Please read the article before posting so that everyone understands what is going on and can debate any of the points in the article itself.

Link to article:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/6583893.stm

Happy debating!

Someones watching a little too many movies? Btw, there are already robots in the workforce.


Yeah, but one day don't you think it'll be so technologically advanced that it will be able to think for itself?

I'm not talking in recent time, I mean like, a long long time away.

It isn't possible for them to think for themselves. Think about it, we programmed them to work, they will just do that.

Concentric2
27-04-2007, 06:50 PM
Well, let's hope they take over soon - think about it.

If we want this planet to survive - what doesn't need Oxygen? Robots.
If we want this planet to survive - what doesn't produce Methane? Robots.
If we want this planet to survive - what doesn't produce Carbon emissions? Robots.
If we want this planet to survive - what doesn't deforest etc? Robots.

You get the idea.

Yes, we would be `extinct` but the planet wouldn't - and I'd like that more than the planet imploding.

My two cents.

Well they need some sort of power source? :rolleyes:

cocaine
27-04-2007, 06:53 PM
Yeah, but one day don't you think it'll be so technologically advanced that it will be able to think for itself?

I'm not talking in recent time, I mean like, a long long time away.

no because scientists wouldnt be stupid enough to give it that capability (well, i hope not)

Aflux
27-04-2007, 07:53 PM
no because scientists wouldnt be stupid enough to give it that capability (well, i hope not)
Thing is - if you've seen `I, Robot` then it's entirely possible if you get someone like BSkyB started making robots.

Dan2nd
27-04-2007, 08:15 PM
we already have robots working in car factorys :)

Ashhizzle
27-04-2007, 08:53 PM
we already have robots working in car factorys :)
they're gunna rivet you to death aint they:rolleyes:

Mentor
27-04-2007, 09:34 PM
I disagree. What the robots are being programmed to do is getting more complex, yes, but the robot isn't thinking for itself. The human programmed the robot to return to it's station when the battery gets low - it didn't learn to do that on its own.
Thats becuse those robots dont need any intelligence, proper AI is really only used in major systems these days, theres a few satallights which have basic ones for example.
Most AI people point at isnt really AI, nore has it ever been intended to be so, its simple emulation of AI, to make it appear as if its intelligent even when its not "/
a True AI is far from a reality at current, although simplistic versions are widly used, for example AI designs and builds quite a bit of Nasa top equipment (notably the antenna the probes now all use)


Well, let's hope they take over soon - think about it.

If we want this planet to survive - what doesn't need Oxygen? Robots.
If we want this planet to survive - what doesn't produce Methane? Robots.
If we want this planet to survive - what doesn't produce Carbon emissions? Robots.
If we want this planet to survive - what doesn't deforest etc? Robots.

You get the idea.

Yes, we would be `extinct` but the planet wouldn't - and I'd like that more than the planet imploding.

My two cents.

o.0 urmm so how exactly are these robots powered? seeing as they produce no byproducts and use no resources o.0

cocaine
27-04-2007, 09:37 PM
Thing is - if you've seen `I, Robot` then it's entirely possible if you get someone like BSkyB started making robots.


yes, because movies often happen in real life, where robots take over the world and theres one man trying to save the planet.

:rolleyes:

Aflux
27-04-2007, 09:39 PM
o.0 urmm so how exactly are these robots powered? seeing as they produce no byproducts and use no resources o.0
Renewable solar power.


yes, because movies often happen in real life, where robots take over the world and theres one man trying to save the planet.I was putting it into context and a hypothetical situation - no need to get all uptight about it.

cocaine
27-04-2007, 09:41 PM
Renewable solar power.

I was putting it into context and a hypothetical situation - no need to get all uptight about it.

yuh but theres a difference from a movie and real life.

i doubt half the stuff thats in i,robot will actually be created and stuff.

but, i dont know for sure.

Aflux
27-04-2007, 09:44 PM
Have you seen `Asimo`?

It proves that robotics is possible and the robotic technology is there.

Yes, `I, Robot` is a film but it produces images of what our world could be like, and how advanced robotics could get.

Like, `The Day After Tomorrow` did with global warming.

lAdmire
27-04-2007, 11:34 PM
Yes, as you can see, already in this generation we are depending on technology to do things for us. Dishwashers, laundry machines, computers, etc. We are using things to do things for us. I believe in our children's life time or even in ours we might not even have to get up for work. All we do is program some robot to do the work for us && send it on it's way. In the next generation, we will have lazy && dependent people in society which I find horrible.

RedStratocas
28-04-2007, 01:24 PM
Soon they'll be better than us.

Thats impossible, because WE make them. A human has to program them to do something, thus we are automatically smarter or as smart as them. There's no way a robot can just get intelligence that we don't have.

Aflux
28-04-2007, 04:16 PM
Thats impossible, because WE make them. A human has to program them to do something, thus we are automatically smarter or as smart as them. There's no way a robot can just get intelligence that we don't have.
Untrue.

As soon as we make robots capable of thinking for themselves - then it will happen.

RedStratocas
29-04-2007, 04:12 AM
Untrue.

As soon as we make robots capable of thinking for themselves - then it will happen.

Robots are programed. They can only think what we tell them to think. We're pulling the strings. It's impossible to make something that even the creators cannot comprehend, it doesnt make any sense.

cocaine
29-04-2007, 08:55 AM
Robots are programed. They can only think what we tell them to think. We're pulling the strings. It's impossible to make something that even the creators cannot comprehend, it doesnt make any sense.

Thats kind of what I said, and airmax seems to think differently

how would they be capable to have intelligence to think more than what we've already told them to think :S

Aflux
29-04-2007, 11:26 AM
Think of it this way; on some cars, the windscreen wipers turn on when it detects water.

That's a very tiny thing, I know for my argument but it proves the point if us humans program robots to do something when something happens - why is there no technology to program them to do something when they feel it's right [back to my windscreen wiper point].

Kardan
29-04-2007, 11:33 AM
Think of it this way; on some cars, the windscreen wipers turn on when it detects water.

That's a very tiny thing, I know for my argument but it proves the point if us humans program robots to do something when something happens - why is there no technology to program them to do something when they feel it's right [back to my windscreen wiper point].


But WE programmed the windscreen wipers to turn on when water hits the windscreen.

Aflux
29-04-2007, 02:27 PM
But WE programmed the windscreen wipers to turn on when water hits the windscreen.
So what's to stop us from programming the robot to think for itself?

Mentor
29-04-2007, 05:08 PM
[FONT=Courier New]Renewable solar power.
Solar power isnt technically renewable, as the sun will eventually run out. Plus although the solar energy will be comeing for a very long time, solar panels themselves dont last as long.

Also you need to be running a solar panel a few 100 years for it to be of benefit to the environment due to how much pollution and carbon emissions there are when creating them.

Aflux
29-04-2007, 05:41 PM
Solar power isnt technically renewable, as the sun will eventually run out. Plus although the solar energy will be comeing for a very long time, solar panels themselves dont last as long.

Also you need to be running a solar panel a few 100 years for it to be of benefit to the environment due to how much pollution and carbon emissions there are when creating them.
Technological advances could produce renewable solar power?

The sun will burn out in 4.5 million years or something stupid so we'll be long gone by then.

If you think how far technology has come along since what, 1970-80 then the possibilities are endless.

Mentor
29-04-2007, 05:51 PM
Technological advances could produce renewable solar power?

The sun will burn out in 4.5 million years or something stupid so we'll be long gone by then.

If you think how far technology has come along since what, 1970-80 then the possibilities are endless.


Go back 20 years and think of those visions of the future"we may have colonized the stars but where still useing tapes."
Go to now, tapes are already legacy technology, cd, dvd, blu-ray etc. And where still no where near colonizing the stars.
So its foolish to believe are technology now will be anything like what it will be in the future, solar power, nuclear power etc etc will all likely seem privative and stupid, and new far more potent, safe and clean power sources will have been developed.

Plus for your sun estimate, change your million to billion then your more on the right scale.

Plus renewable and non-renewable is simply down to the time scale your working on, wait a few 100 million years and you can renew the coal and oil stocks as well "/

cocaine
29-04-2007, 06:07 PM
So what's to stop us from programming the robot to think for itself?

uhm.. well.. ourselves.

Aflux
29-04-2007, 06:55 PM
uhm.. well.. ourselves.
Who controls us?

A teenager hacked into NATO - do you really think we can stop programmers from programming this sort of thing?

Dan2nd
29-04-2007, 08:35 PM
they're gunna rivet you to death aint they:rolleyes:

Dude those things have drills .... sharp pointy drills...

RedStratocas
29-04-2007, 08:39 PM
Think of it this way; on some cars, the windscreen wipers turn on when it detects water.

But WE programed it to do that. Thats how it was made. Its not like they built a car, and it just happened to automatically turn the wipers on when its raining. Like it was some sort of accident. We made it do that, it isn't really thinking for itself, we're the ones telling it what to do.

Dan2nd
30-04-2007, 10:15 AM
what if we made a robotic version of the human brain so programmed it to be a human ?

-Soph-
30-04-2007, 12:46 PM
what if we made a robotic version of the human brain so programmed it to be a human ?

well then you just don't program it to think for itself then.
and why would we make a robot programmed to be human?
Aren't they usually made to do individual jobs?

Dan2nd
30-04-2007, 04:52 PM
well then you just don't program it to think for itself then.
and why would we make a robot programmed to be human?
Aren't they usually made to do individual jobs?

But if we wanted robots who can decide when the floor needs hoovering , the dishes need washing and the kids need feeding thats what I think e'd have to do

cocaine
30-04-2007, 04:54 PM
Who controls us?


we do? :S

RedStratocas
30-04-2007, 05:13 PM
what if we made a robotic version of the human brain so programmed it to be a human ?

Well first off, scientists actually dont really know how a lot of the human brain works.

And second, I dont think youre quite understanding it. We'd still be the programmers. It would still do what it was told to do. And also, it wouldnt have a conscious, you cant program a conscious.

Dan2nd
30-04-2007, 05:28 PM
Well first off, scientists actually dont really know how a lot of the human brain works.

And second, I dont think youre quite understanding it. We'd still be the programmers. It would still do what it was told to do. And also, it wouldnt have a conscious, you cant program a conscious.

Sometime in the future I think it will be possible thats my opinion :)

Mentor
30-04-2007, 05:37 PM
As interesting information the worlds most powerful super computer was reacently put to work running a simulation of a rats brain, it could only manage to simulate half of it at a 10th of the normal speed, for around 10 seconds becuse of the emmence strain it put on the system.

Point being are computer technolgy is no where near the level needed to create somthing that can rival the surfistcation of the most powerful computers in existence, the human brain.

Aflux
30-04-2007, 05:41 PM
we do? :S
You missed the point - I'm saying, we, as people, cannot control what other humans do - my example being the teenager that hacked into NATO.

Dan2nd
30-04-2007, 05:42 PM
As interesting information the worlds most powerful super computer was reacently put to work running a simulation of a rats brain, it could only manage to simulate half of it at a 10th of the normal speed, for around 10 seconds becuse of the emmence strain it put on the system.

Point being are computer technolgy is no where near the level needed to create somthing that can rival the surfistcation of the most powerful computers in existence, the human brain.

if that was directed at me thats why I said some time in the Future I think its could happen

Mentor
30-04-2007, 05:45 PM
if that was directed at me thats why I said some time in the Future I think its could happen

o.0 are you sure? i remember your posts saying it couldnt happen, not that it could?

Dan2nd
30-04-2007, 05:59 PM
o.0 are you sure? i remember your posts saying it couldnt happen, not that it could?

I did :S


what if we made a robotic version of the human brain so programmed it to be a human ? I asked a question..


But if we wanted robots who can decide when the floor needs hoovering , the dishes need washing and the kids need feeding thats what I think e'd have to do
I then said thats what I think we'd have to do still not saying in the present day

Sometime in the future I think it will be possible thats my opinion :)
then I said sometime in the future :)

RedStratocas
30-04-2007, 06:31 PM
Sometime in the future I think it will be possible thats my opinion :)

No, because the idea of it isnt robotics. Its not a matter of having the technology to do it, it's just impossible. The same idea with time travel, we'll never be able to travel through time because it isnt technology, its not something that we'll learn to do. It's something that will always be impossible, because you cant program stuff like that. You cant program a conscious. We can give robots ideas, but a robot will never be able to learn things on its own without a secondary influence.

Mentor
30-04-2007, 06:38 PM
No, because the idea of it isnt robotics. Its not a matter of having the technology to do it, it's just impossible.
How so? If it were impossible the 6 billion or so biological computers we call brains probably wouldnt be doing it this very second o.0

People seem to tied down to the clunky mechanical box idea of computers, a brain is just as much one.


The same idea with time travel, we'll never be able to travel through time because it isnt technology, its not something that we'll learn to do.Well that depends on your belife in time, personaly i find time travel very easy, im doing it right now, doing it the other way could be more of a challenge though.


It's something that will always be impossible, because you cant program stuff like that. You cant program a conscious. We can give robots ideas, but a robot will never be able to learn things on its own without a secondary influence.
Well your misunderstanding what a computer is, its true a multiprogramable computer system never could, the way there built prevents it. But that doesn't mean its the only way a computer can be created. Conciousness is an effect of the brain function, And sufficantly advanced computer that could achive concuisness for all intencive purpos's would also be a brain "/

Dan2nd
30-04-2007, 06:41 PM
No, because the idea of it isnt robotics. Its not a matter of having the technology to do it, it's just impossible. The same idea with time travel, we'll never be able to travel through time because it isnt technology, its not something that we'll learn to do. It's something that will always be impossible, because you cant program stuff like that. You cant program a conscious. We can give robots ideas, but a robot will never be able to learn things on its own without a secondary influence.

300 years ago it was impossible for humans to fly we're doing that now... How do you know what technology will be devloped in the future..?

RedStratocas
30-04-2007, 09:12 PM
How so? If it were impossible the 6 billion or so biological computers we call brains probably wouldnt be doing it this very second o.0

People seem to tied down to the clunky mechanical box idea of computers, a brain is just as much one.

Well that depends on your belife in time, personaly i find time travel very easy, im doing it right now, doing it the other way could be more of a challenge though.


Well your misunderstanding what a computer is, its true a multiprogramable computer system never could, the way there built prevents it. But that doesn't mean its the only way a computer can be created. Conciousness is an effect of the brain function, And sufficantly advanced computer that could achive concuisness for all intencive purpos's would also be a brain "/

I dont understand how a computer can have a conscious. How can we make something and have it know already that something is right and wrong without us telling it? It would have to have a real brain. And by time travel I mean go back in time. It's impossible since time isn't real. We made up time.


300 years ago it was impossible for humans to fly we're doing that now... How do you know what technology will be devloped in the future..?

Actually, we aren't flying, we're just riding in things that fly.

Dan2nd
01-05-2007, 11:36 AM
Actually, we aren't flying, we're just riding in things that fly.

Yes we're using technology which has been developed to fly which 500 years ago was thought impossible! In 100 years we could have major devlopments in robotics and create a robot that can think for itself theres no way of knowing what could be done unless you build a time machine and go and see for yourself

Mentor
01-05-2007, 08:37 PM
I dont understand how a computer can have a conscious. How can we make something and have it know already that something is right and wrong without us telling it? It would have to have a real brain. And by time travel I mean go back in time. It's impossible since time isn't real. We made up time.
Quite easly really, a brain is just a very complex computer after all. The main difference is the brains functionalty is in the hardware, where as current computers work via the software a higher level of abstraction. Aka rather performing millions of very simple instructions to acheave something, the brains actual structure determins an outcome by the way an impulce travels through it. Aka a neural net. Computers can and have been built useing this principle. Working like an increibdly simplifed version of the human brain. Once quantom computing comes in to full swing computer technology will easly suppas are own abilty. Humans are programed in some ways, by are instricts, response pattens, defined by are inital brain strcuture, that structure changes through are life (actual phyiscal changes in positions of nurons etc)
Computers will eventaly be able to do the same, thus obtaining concusness.

Plus time is real? its a direction, like up or down, back or forward. Its just one of many in are 11 D universe, we just cant perseave of interact with most of them :)


Actually, we aren't flying, we're just riding in things that fly.Thus flying? and the technolgy does exist to grow you a pair of wings (although prohibited due to religion/ethical issues) so if you only define flying under your own power as flying you can do that to.

Cheeper still, hire a large catapult.

Dan2nd
01-05-2007, 08:40 PM
Thus flying? and the technolgy does exist to grow you a pair of wings (although prohibited due to religion/ethical issues) so if you only define flying under your own power as flying you can do that to.

Cheeper still, hire a large catapult.

omg that would be soo cool :O

Mentor
01-05-2007, 09:19 PM
omg that would be soo cool :O
Simlar ish thing that was in fact allowed to be done, anyone heard of the ear mouse (human ear was grown on mouse's back).

Im sure google will provide pics if wanted :)

reindeer.
20-05-2007, 10:08 AM
http://www.scq.ubc.ca/filter/wp-content/uploads/2006/09/mouseear.jpg




Rofl, no chance. The robot would only be as clever as the person who created it, and if they make it capable to take over the world then they are very stupid.

Browney
20-05-2007, 10:46 AM
Thats impossible, because WE make them. A human has to program them to do something, thus we are automatically smarter or as smart as them. There's no way a robot can just get intelligence that we don't have.

Forgive me if I'm wrong but can't you get learning robots? Like if I sent a robot into a room and it took 25 steps and hit a wall, it would remember that 25 steps from it's original position is a wall? Or am I thinking like a mad man. :D

RedStratocas
20-05-2007, 12:27 PM
Forgive me if I'm wrong but can't you get learning robots? Like if I sent a robot into a room and it took 25 steps and hit a wall, it would remember that 25 steps from it's original position is a wall? Or am I thinking like a mad man. :D

Yes, but we program it to learn how to learn how many steps to the wall. How can a robot something that we humans can't?

Browney
20-05-2007, 12:30 PM
Yes, but we program it to learn how to learn how many steps to the wall. How can a robot something that we humans can't?

Ah. So it only learns what we tell it to learn. Ok, thanks. :)

RedStratocas
20-05-2007, 01:39 PM
Ah. So it only learns what we tell it to learn. Ok, thanks. :)

Pretty much. You have to program it how to learn. Its why a toaster can't learn to fly, it's not programed to learn.

Mentor
20-05-2007, 05:49 PM
Pretty much. You have to program it how to learn. Its why a toaster can't learn to fly, it's not programed to learn.

You have a very limited idea of how computers learn. Maybe read up on the evolution learning model, which uses a neural network (same system a human brain uses), set a 1000 of them up with the same challenge, you'' end up with quite a few different solutions, none coming from any human involvement.

There are alot of different forms computers can come in, its stupid to use just one as a model for all of them.

Mr.Sam
20-05-2007, 05:53 PM
Well, conducters watch out - there is now a robot that conducts orchestras... although I'm not sure why they designed him to look like the conqueror of worlds

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sw7aqlWu640

http://www.geekologie.com/2007/05/18/vinegar-01.jpg

Dan2nd
20-05-2007, 07:14 PM
Well, conducters watch out - there is now a robot that conducts orchestras... although I'm not sure why they designed him to look like the conqueror of worlds

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sw7aqlWu640

http://www.geekologie.com/2007/05/18/vinegar-01.jpg

Omg Darth Vader / Terminator before I read your post I thought it was a battle droid

RedStratocas
21-05-2007, 06:52 PM
You have a very limited idea of how computers learn. Maybe read up on the evolution learning model, which uses a neural network (same system a human brain uses), set a 1000 of them up with the same challenge, you'' end up with quite a few different solutions, none coming from any human involvement.

There are alot of different forms computers can come in, its stupid to use just one as a model for all of them.

But dont humans make robots? I still dont understand how a robot can learn something that we cant?

Catzsy
22-05-2007, 11:34 AM
The advance in robotics could be both negative and positive.

Robots could be used in warfare I believe and have several military applications e.g. suicide bombers etc. This is a negative side and not good for the peace of the planet. Hopefully, however, the postive benefits outweigh the negative.

Yes using robots for housework is an interesting thought but does not really have a great impact.

I think where the advance is for the benefit of mankind then it is a remarkable thing such as:

1) Paraplegic people being able to walk again with the aid of basically sophisticated robotics to mimic damaged parts. This has already been trialled on people who are paralysed from the waist down.

2) Robots to go into places that are not safe for humans e.g. testing for landmines or rescuing people from hazardous places.

3) Doing jobs that could damage the health of the human population such as Coal Mining etc.


As I say the only problem is that if this technology got into the wrong hands otherwise it could be used for the benefit of Mankind. I do not see them ever taking over the world as such though but its good to read about it in Science Fiction.

Mentor
22-05-2007, 06:34 PM
But dont humans make robots? I still dont understand how a robot can learn something that we cant?

Your parents made you, that doesn't mean you cant learn something your parents dont know now does it.
As a simplistic example useing the evolution modle.

You have a game, the objective is to collect as many randomluy appearing dots as is possible. Now a nurel net is set up. Basicly a collection of nodes which get an input as a value (say on where it is currently, where the dot is etc) these nodes pass there information to another set of nodes, each holding a randomly assigned mathmatical operater, +2/-3/*20 etc etc. They pass to the next, and the final number at the top means the action to take.
These numbers are randomly assigned at first.

The program is run. it trys maybe 100 randomly generated combinations. The combination that resulted in the highest collection of randomly generated dots, is then selected, by the program, and a 100 variations are made, slighly varieing each number, it runs all of them, again the most successful numbers are taken and varied slighted, This happens repetedly say for 20 generations.

By the final generations dot collection will likely be perfect. the program will have taught itself how to collect dots, without any human telling it to. The humans tell it how to learn, and what to learn. It does the learning. This is actualy the same way are own brains operate, but in an incredibly more advanced way (The ibm blue gene, most powerful super computer on earth for exsample was reacently used to emuilate a rats brain, it could only emulate half of one at a 10th the speed it would work in reality.. and becuse of the strain only for a few seconds. A rats brain is nothing on a human one.


Robots could be used in warfare I believe and have several military applications e.g. suicide bombers etc.
That makes no sence, why would you have suicide bombers if you had robots? where already past that, think of tomohawk missles etc, which can fly themselves to a target, thats a robot/computer being used to fly a missle to its target, we already use it, its nothing new.



1) Paraplegic people being able to walk again with the aid of basically sophisticated robotics to mimic damaged parts. This has already been trialled on people who are paralysed from the waist down.

2) Robots to go into places that are not safe for humans e.g. testing for landmines or rescuing people from hazardous places.

3) Doing jobs that could damage the health of the human population such as Coal Mining etc.
Although i agree with them, robots do most those tasks already, so your view of the future is much more cloesly linked to the present if not the past.

RedStratocas
22-05-2007, 07:09 PM
Your parents made you, that doesn't mean you cant learn something your parents dont know now does it.

But can the parents still learn it? Do the parents still have the ability to learn what their son/daughter has learned?

Catzsy
22-05-2007, 07:32 PM
01101101entorThat makes no sence, why would you have suicide bombers if you had robots? where already past that, think of tomohawk missles etc, which can fly themselves to a target, thats a robot/computer being used to fly a missle to its target, we already use it, its nothing new.

Well to expand. Suicide bombers was probably the wrong term although in the wrong hands it might indeed be the right term. I would think that they would cost a lot less than a missile and be used by lesser factions than goverments. Robots could be used on covert operations that need far more sophisticated surveillance and flexibility than a missile locking into a target.

Also it could be deployed as and when to ensure there is minimum loss of life or indeed to take to take somebody prisoner when there is a high possibility of fatalities with ordinary soldiers. The ideas may be old but I do not know of anything that sophisticated that presently exists.

As far as ideas are concerned with medicine.. there is no actual 'robocop' as far as i know so an advance could be made to make a paraplegic have a normal life. We may see Robot moutain rescue teams, Firemen, lifeboat crews etc who would be able to go where it is really not possible for humans to take the risk. Who knows?

Robots may be able to be used in the third world where there a lack of skilled workers to build irrigation ditches, wells or even provide local automated medical services. I may not be scientifically minded but sometimes the simple ideas can be the most successful eg. Wind up radios for the third world.

Mentor
22-05-2007, 08:18 PM
Well to expand. Suicide bombers was probably the wrong term although in the wrong hands it might indeed be the right term. I would think that they would cost a lot less than a missile and be used by lesser factions than goverments.
Not that could do the same damage of get to the same places. Although somthing that i thinks simlar to what you mean was used as far back as world war two. The Goliath tracked mine (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goliath_tracked_mine) was basicaly a robotic bomb on wheels.


Robots could be used on covert operations that need far more sophisticated surveillance and flexibility than a missile locking into a target.
In these arias its more practical just to stick in small camras overwhere and broadcast info, out than to build a robot to do it for people.


Also it could be deployed as and when to ensure there is minimum loss of life or indeed to take to take somebody prisoner when there is a high possibility of fatalities with ordinary soldiers. The ideas may be old but I do not know of anything that sophisticated that presently exists.
Like the TALON (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foster-Miller_TALON) ?

And thats ignoreing the most commonly used type of miltary robots such as Predator drone or the MQ-9 Reaper's




As far as ideas are concerned with medicine.. there is no actual 'robocop' as far as i know so an advance could be made to make a paraplegic have a normal life.
I didnt know raising the dead was relivent to robotics, where not talking about cyborgs here.


We may see Robot moutain rescue teams, Firemen, lifeboat crews etc who would be able to go where it is really not possible for humans to take the risk. Who knows?
Robots to do most of them tasks are in devlopment, development of firefighting robots were even commisioned by europe back in 2004.

most robots are designed for tasks humans really cant do (robotic surgery), cleaning inspecting the inside of pipes (like the VersaTrax150)


Robots may be able to be used in the third world where there a lack of skilled workers to build irrigation ditches, wells or even provide local automated medical services.
Robots aint cheep, robots aint simple. Its alot easyer to teach someone to provide basic medial services than to maintain a highly surfisticated robot.. a few million cheeper too...


I may not be scientifically minded but sometimes the simple ideas can be the most successful eg. Wind up radios for the third world.
The simpler things appear the more complex they usealy are. A command lines alot simpler than windows, but looks alot more complex. A wind up radio aint even as simple as it sounds...

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