if you are religious, how far would you go

[-Soph-]

how far would you go to follow all of your religions rules?

if you get me, i've been wondering.

I'm not religious, so that counts me out.

[Jordie]

im not religious and i believe in nothin:(

[,Jess,]

I'm a Christian but I wouldn't say I was over religious but people say there's lots that you're not allowed to do etc. The 2 greatest commandments in the bible are to love God and to love your neighbour as you love yourself so basically if you do these 2 things you can't help but follow all the rules like all the 10 commandments if you get me...

[womanizer]

id snog jesus

[Dubble]

I'm a Christian but I wouldn't say I was over religious but people say there's lots that you're not allowed to do etc. The 2 greatest commandments in the bible are to love God and to love your neighbour as you love yourself so basically if you do these 2 things you can't help but follow all the rules like all the 10 commandments if you get me...


Same and thal shall not steal.

[clarissa !!]

im not religious.

[Energizer]

I'm not religious at all.

[alexxxxx]

neither am i.

[Nixt]

I am a Christian, but a liberal Protestant and that means I don't necessarily take all of the religious teachings literally and I feel that many (generally those that are teachings on how we should live our lives) are open to interpretation and should be reinterpreted according to the times. Therefore I would go as far as my interpretation of my religion's rules require me to go, basically.

[FlyingJesus]

I'm not religious myself, but I'm interested in religion. It's my view that if you're going to be religious, you should go all out on following the laws of that religion. If you're a Christian for example, if you believe in it wholly and truly then you'd surely want to follow the religion to the letter in order to please your creator.

No offense to you Garion but I can't get my head around why something so fundamental as a religion should change according to times, surely if God changes His mind He'll let you know? I can't imagine Creation and history suddenly changing just because we come into a new social age. This isn't a dig by the way, I just can't see the logic.

[Nixt]

I'm not religious myself, but I'm interested in religion. It's my view that if you're going to be religious, you should go all out on following the laws of that religion. If you're a Christian for example, if you believe in it wholly and truly then you'd surely want to follow the religion to the letter in order to please your creator.

No offense to you Garion but I can't get my head around why something so fundamental as a religion should change according to times, surely if God changes His mind He'll let you know? I can't imagine Creation and history suddenly changing just because we come into a new social age. This isn't a dig by the way, I just can't see the logic.

I am not necessarily talking about the more fundamental things such as the idea of how the earth was created (which I don't take literally anyway), I was talking more about the teachings on how you should live your life and things. It's my fault I didn't really explain my post properly, it's hard to describe really... but it's like, if things change then ultimately it's God's decision and thus certain teachings that determine the way modern Christians behave should be interpreted in a way that make them applicable to the change in times, because this is what God intended.

[Mentor]

I'm a Christian but I wouldn't say I was over religious but people say there's lots that you're not allowed to do etc. The 2 greatest commandments in the bible are to love God and to love your neighbour as you love yourself so basically if you do these 2 things you can't help but follow all the rules like all the 10 commandments if you get me...
Actualy the 2 most important commandments accordning to the bible are, dont worship any other gods and dont worship any idols... i think god must have had a bit of an inferiority complex when he made em "/


I'm not religious myself, but I'm interested in religion. It's my view that if you're going to be religious, you should go all out on following the laws of that religion. If you're a Christian for example, if you believe in it wholly and truly then you'd surely want to follow the religion to the letter in order to please your creator.

No offense to you Garion but I can't get my head around why something so fundamental as a religion should change according to times, surely if God changes His mind He'll let you know? I can't imagine Creation and history suddenly changing just because we come into a new social age. This isn't a dig by the way, I just can't see the logic.
Although what youve said is true, the bible is not the word of god, but instead the word of man, Hence takeing its messages with a pinch of salt doesnt imply god would in anyway have changed his mind on any of the issues or stances held. It just means the writers being only human let a bit of there own personal bias come through in there writeings.

[GommeInc]

After working in a church for a year and 2 months now, I can safely say that people believe anything written in a book that is over glorified. I don't think hymns help either, many are religious propaganda like "We will only worship you, my Lord" and I think there was something about only Christians being clever, or implying it at least.

The only good things about churches are:
Relaxing (if you are that sort of person).
Nice to look at (some are).
Traditional for weddings, funerals.
They hire out the halls for money, which they spend for good causes (this is a URC church, who send money to Africa and other places for food etc. Some send it to silly charities wasting the money on books).

I find some of the attitudes of people annoying, hypocritcal and works in the bible contradictory, but life is filled with that sort of thing. UIt's annoying that something thought of as major like the bible has so many problems...

Some of the people I work with and for are AMAZING though. When my grand father died, it was nice to know they were thinking of my family and nan and we were in the prayers, which is a nice thought really.

[OMGitsaROSS]

i r agnostic.

i do gtz jebus poster dat is coverd in whtie specks tho

[DiscoPat]

I'm a Muslim and I would do the best I can to do everything but, some stuff is just abit too much for me, and after all, its just a faith and you dont really have to do everything thats been told.

[:Liam]

Im an atheist I find the thought of religion totally implausable tbh. I see the bible not as a holy book but more a less a story book. Evidence has shown that over the past 2000 years the bible has changed dramatically due to preists changing it, this could make lots of the bible false if Jesus/God ect. existed. How could someone have so much power to make the earth and make us when we are so interlectually advanced compared to other species, Why didn't "God" make everyone as smart as each other? why didnt "god" make everyone equal?" "If god where real he is said to forgive sins, so why when eve ate the apple in the garden did he punish her? when he should of forgived her?" Alot of the bible contradicts itself, In my eyes its utter nonsense. And another thing I hate thoose christan preachers who go door to door giving free bibles and saying "join the christan faith" Christans brainwash normal people :P Like hymms, Phsycological statistics show that repeating words over and over again causes them to stay on the mind just like when you remember lines for a play or elements of the periodic table ect. Which could show that christans get brainwashed when its a chorus "The lord is almighty ect.".

</rant> Ive been thinking about religion the past couple of days im glad to get it off my chest finally :P

[GommeInc]

Im an atheist I find the thought of religion totally implausable tbh. I see the bible not as a holy book but more a less a story book. Evidence has shown that over the past 2000 years the bible has changed dramatically due to preists changing it, this could make lots of the bible false if Jesus/God ect. existed. How could someone have so much power to make the earth and make us when we are so interlectually advanced compared to other species, Why didn't "God" make everyone as smart as each other? why didnt "god" make everyone equal?" "If god where real he is said to forgive sins, so why when eve ate the apple in the garden did he punish her? when he should of forgived her?" Alot of the bible contradicts itself, In my eyes its utter nonsense. And another thing I hate thoose christan preachers who go door to door giving free bibles and saying "join the christan faith" Christans brainwash normal people :P Like hymms, Phsycological statistics show that repeating words over and over again causes them to stay on the mind just like when you remember lines for a play or elements of the periodic table ect. Which could show that christans get brainwashed when its a chorus "The lord is almighty ect.".

</rant> Ive been thinking about religion the past couple of days im glad to get it off my chest finally :P
You sort of follow the same idea as I do. I think God, in terms of Christianity, as an imaginary friend which we yell at and seek guidance, when it is actually done to their own rational thought that they realise their troubles and sort them out. Hymns are just Christian Propaganda, the jolly tunes and words make people remember them.

[mmhmm.]

technically, I'm Christian. Born and raised. Dragged to church most Sundays, used to go to a Christian private school.

After leaving the school (which I think shelters its students so much that they are brainwashed into believing there's only one way and all that stuff), I started thinking about things on my own, and I'm not sure what to believe. It confuses me, so I avoid it for the most part.

My old school has affected me so much that I can't just dismiss Christianity completely. I mean, I heard about it for over 10 years in school and out. But I wouldn't call myself Christian anymore, nor Atheist. I believe there's a God... but nothing else at the moment.

[Bef]

Ahh religion gets my goat.
Not all religious people, just some, and not really any paticular religions.
Its the people who take religion to an extreme and use it as an excuse to do cruddy things. Well they should just GO DIE!
I was reading in the paper today about a Sikh women who was "honour killed" by her husbunds family because she wanted a divorce.
That was all supposedly done in the name of god.
Alot of people use religion as a way to attack and control others.
Like these terrorists and stuff, most of the suicide bombers etc are doing what they are doing because they have been forced to believe that that is what God wants them to do.
They believe if they blow themselves and a whole load of innocent people up theyl be at the pearly gates with hundreds of naked virgins at ther beck and call (Or whatever ther religion claims heaven is)

I say to these religious nuts..
"If your the sort of people god wants in heaven then send me straight to hell baby cos i dont wanna be stuck with a bunch of insane murderering world leaders who agree that stoning women to death or pouring acid on ther face is a sutible punishment for her looking at another man! Keep your philidelphia"

And as for these nutters who take every word of the bible literally and believe that dinosaurs were really dragons and were created when god created the world (Anybody else been watching waterloo rd)
Well ther just bloody bonkers and need to be locked up in loony bins.

Ohh and the religions which are like "ONLY 20000 PEOPLE CAN GET TO HEAVEN" isnt ther like way more then 20000 of them so that makes no sense?
And the ones who come to your house and tell you ************ is wrong. Thats what really gets my goat. Like wer going to believe you dont shove a crucifix up tour bum when nobodys looking.

Personally, i dont know if thers a god because hes never come up to me and been like "HI BEF I AM GOD" and until that happens then i shall keep an open mind. Il live my life how i want to, treating people the way i would like to be treated myself.

[FlyingJesus]

Im an atheist I find the thought of religion totally implausable tbh. I see the bible not as a holy book but more a less a story book. Evidence has shown that over the past 2000 years the bible has changed dramatically due to preists changing it, this could make lots of the bible false if Jesus/God ect. existed. How could someone have so much power to make the earth and make us when we are so interlectually advanced compared to other species, Why didn't "God" make everyone as smart as each other? why didnt "god" make everyone equal?" "If god where real he is said to forgive sins, so why when eve ate the apple in the garden did he punish her? when he should of forgived her?" Alot of the bible contradicts itself, In my eyes its utter nonsense. And another thing I hate thoose christan preachers who go door to door giving free bibles and saying "join the christan faith" Christans brainwash normal people :P Like hymms, Phsycological statistics show that repeating words over and over again causes them to stay on the mind just like when you remember lines for a play or elements of the periodic table ect. Which could show that christans get brainwashed when its a chorus "The lord is almighty ect.".

</rant> Ive been thinking about religion the past couple of days im glad to get it off my chest finally :P

Some fair (if biased) points, but still just because you don't agree with Christianity doesn't mean there is no god/are no gods. It's very possible that if any gods exist they aren't those known by any Earthly religion that's ever been spoken.

[Virgin Mary]

The thing about the Christian God is that it's pretty much impossible to argue against him because how can you argue against something that's omnipotent and omniscient? I believe God is Morgan Freeman.

[Mentor]

The thing about the Christian God is that it's pretty much impossible to argue against him because how can you argue against something that's omnipotent and omniscient? I believe God is Morgan Freeman.
Actually its quite easy since omnipotence has a paradox within it, and if you add in benevolence to gods concept you end up with the problem of evil.

Omnipotence paradox example:
Can god create something more powerful then him?
Can god make something so heavy even he cant lift it?

[mmhmm.]

Actually its quite easy since omnipotence has a paradox within it, and if you add in benevolence to gods concept you end up with the problem of evil.

Omnipotence paradox example:
Can god create something more powerful then him?
Can god make something so heavy even he cant lift it?

Christianity doesn't believe that evil is more powerful than God. They believe God will ultimately win.
And what's this thing about lifting? :S

[FlyingJesus]

Actually its quite easy since omnipotence has a paradox within it, and if you add in benevolence to gods concept you end up with the problem of evil.

Omnipotence paradox example:
Can god create something more powerful then him?
Can god make something so heavy even he cant lift it?

Yes because omnipotence by definition means they can do anything, including defeat a paradox.

[asher_]

i'm catholic, although i've commited the sin of sodomy several times. a life time in hell, nice...

[Mentor]

Yes because omnipotence by definition means they can do anything, including defeat a paradox.
No it doesn't, omnipotence means all powerful, not the ability to do anything, thats omnilibety a concept not often associated with god, plus one refuted by almost all religious and philosophical scholars whom have reviewed the case for gods ability to override logic. No matter how you put it the concept of a triangle can never have 3 sides without ceasing to be the concept originally held.

Paradox's are a matter omnipotence cannot defeat, also even if it was accepted it could you could not make an argument saying it did without it being circular in that you cant avoid a criticism of a concept by useing the concept and ignoring the criticism, unless you want to commit the homoculas fallacy, but that aint very constructive :)

!synergy: now try reading that post, then respond again.

[Virgin Mary]

Actually its quite easy since omnipotence has a paradox within it, and if you add in benevolence to gods concept you end up with the problem of evil.

Omnipotence paradox example:
Can god create something more powerful then him?
Can god make something so heavy even he cant lift it?
I knew someone would come out with that eventually. I think it's subject to debate, because no one understands what God is. God is beyond our logic so we cannot use logic in describing him. That's what I meant by he's hard to argue against. If he is beyond our comprehension and logic then we cannot explain him because we explain things through our comprehension of them and our logic. Just like saying he's infinit is hard to understand because a lot of people can't comprehend something that has and always will exist with no beginning or end. If God truly is omnipotent then he can bend logic at his will. The argument gets really confusing of course because of this.

[Mentor]

I knew someone would come out with that eventually. I think it's subject to debate, because no one understands what God is. God is beyond our logic so we cannot use logic in describing him. That's what I meant by he's hard to argue against.
Thats not really true though, as "he" denotes a very specific concept of what god is, as presented in the bible. Hence the exact parts of his concept are infact known hence disprovable.
The existence of a god or diety on the other hand is like you say impossible to argue against, and may or may not exist. A god though which fits the profile of the christian god though, can not exist. So ether way christens are ether worshiping a non-existent god, or the wrong one.


If he is beyond our comprehension and logic then we cannot explain him because we explain things through our comprehension of them and our logic.
A transcended god could not then be male, nore be like a human (as the bible calims). Nore would it be possible to know weather god is all powerful, benevolent or anything else. It would be a complete unknown and any claims about god would then be meaningless. The god described by Christianity does not fit in to this category.


Just like saying he's infinit is hard to understand because a lot of people can't comprehend something that has and always will exist with no beginning or end.
The concept of infinity is a human one, we hold a concept, unless god deceives us and changes what we believe that concept to be, we will still note if the concept we hold is not what god infact possesses.


If God truly is omnipotent then he can bend logic at his will. The argument gets really confusing of course because of this.

A better argument is, (put forward by Descartes) "God cannot make it so, that i never existed"
This is inrifutable, since your existence now shows that you have infact existed an unalterable fact, anything could be changed, but it would still remain true that i, or you did infact exist at one point, even if this is known only to god itself.

[Virgin Mary]

Thats not really true though, as "he" denotes a very specific concept of what god is, as presented in the bible. Hence the exact parts of his concept are infact known hence disprovable.
The existence of a god or diety on the other hand is like you say impossible to argue against, and may or may not exist. A god though which fits the profile of the christian god though, can not exist. So ether way christens are ether worshiping a non-existent god, or the wrong one.


A transcended god could not then be male, nore be like a human (as the bible calims). Nore would it be possible to know weather god is all powerful, benevolent or anything else. It would be a complete unknown and any claims about god would then be meaningless. The god described by Christianity does not fit in to this category.


The concept of infinity is a human one, we hold a concept, unless god deceives us and changes what we believe that concept to be, we will still note if the concept we hold is not what god infact possesses.



A better argument is, (put forward by Descartes) "God cannot make it so, that i never existed"
This is inrifutable, since your existence now shows that you have infact existed an unalterable fact, anything could be changed, but it would still remain true that i, or you did infact exist at one point, even if this is known only to god itself.
Which is why this debate can go on forever. If we cannot explain God using our terms then we can neither prove nor disprove his existence by doing so. We can try to though. Referring to God as a male is simply the norm, and is accepted. I believe God to be a masculine entity, though not a male. Though God, as aforementioned, could be anything. S/he/it could be a gender we not yet know of, as again proving that we cannot describe God. As for the last point, I see where you're coming from. Like, if God is illogical how is it we exist within a logical realm as the two are not relative. This once again proves our limits. What we see as logic may only go so far, what God sees as logic may seem illogical to us but it would be perfectly logical to him. For example, how can we define existence? By simply thinking something up, even if it has no physical form contructed of atomic or subatomic particles, does it not exist, even if only in your mind? As you can see this argument can go on forever because it's simply what we know versus what we don't know, and you can't disprove something's existence without proof it does not exist but you can't prove something without evidence either.

[FlyingJesus]

I'm ignoring most points here because they seem to be mainly about the existence (or non-) of the Christian God, and any mention of possible gods has already been stated. This is just to say that Descartes' argument on God is (by nearly all modern philosophers) though to be heavily flawed and circular, especially in reference to existence, where he presumes his own existence and uses his presumption as proof for it (again, circular).

[Mentor]

I'm ignoring most points here because they seem to be mainly about the existence (or non-) of the Christian God, and any mention of possible gods has already been stated. This is just to say that Descartes' argument on God is (by nearly all modern philosophers) though to be heavily flawed and circular, especially in reference to existence, where he presumes his own existence and uses his presumption as proof for it (again, circular).
Descartes believed in god and his arguments for them are quite flawed. His other arguments such as the cogeto though do still stand up, the problem modern philosophers often have his how he applys these principles and makes logical jumps, for example the cogeto only serves to prove there is thinking, not that a self or thing exists in order to think, something Hume attacks with is observation as to the lack of any existing impression of an abstract idea of self being obtainable through introspection. Alot of Descartes other jumps such as his criterion of truth though can be forgiven as he believing in god is able to use the idea of gods benevolence (and hence the idea god would not deceave him) in order to justify these claims. Also Descartes himself kinda leaves out his main arguments about gods for good reason, that being primarily that the church would have burnt him as a hertic if he tryed... life in the early enlightenment wernt all that great for philosophers despite the name.

Anyway that aside, the idea of the indubitably of though remains true.