Vegans [sp?] - LOL

[lAdmire]

Anyways, today I'm watching 'Bringing Home Baby' && this couple are vegan && so, they decided their going to raise their son vegan so their mother was like, I don't want that. But, what happens when they want to go to a birthday party && stuff, what will they eat? When they go to a barbeque? Their missing out on a part of life. Now I understand killing animals is wrong but they won't even eat dairy products. This involves no killing of an animal. It's just taking milk from an animal. Makes no sense.

What do you think?

[Browney]

(Expects another massive thread on being Vegan/Vegetarian)

I think the nutrition from meat and dairy is needed.

[GommeInc]

Vegans are odd people. I wouldn't know where to start when they're involved. People can have what they want to eat, but if they have this strange belief that it is cruel or will hamr their health, they need to be shot.

1. Animals feel pain differently. We have evolved in a way which makes us more aware. An animal would barely know what's happening.
2. Animals are killed instantly. There is no pain.
3. Meat isn't fatty unless you cook it in large amounts of fat. The only part on the meat which is fatty is the white bits, the fat, the actual meat has little fat.
4, Meats have large amounts of nutrients, which is natural as opposed to unnatural vegetables which are produced genetically different.
5. Not having the produce from an animal is weird and bizarre, I no not a reason why they don't eat/drink it.

[Virgin Mary]

http://www.mercyforanimals.org/dairy_and_veal.asp
Might be why. I just drink goat's milk, it tastes nicer.

[English]

Vegans are losers.

Killing animals is not wrong at all. Our generations were born to eat me, we evolved this way and should keep it going - meat is good. Hell, animals wouldn't be alive because they are bred to be killed so if we didn't eat them they wouldn't be bred and therefore wouldn't been alive in the first place.

[Virgin Mary]

What about cannibalism?

[English]

What about cannibalism?
We have animals so there is no need to turn to humans.

[Virgin Mary]

We have animals so there is no need to turn to humans.
There's this food called hofu and I tried it and it was awful. It's meant to taste like humans. Maybe they got the flavour from some nasty tasting humans though. It's all so contradictory.

[LeftForDead]

There's this food called hofu and I tried it and it was awful. It's meant to taste like humans. Maybe they got the flavour from some nasty tasting humans though. It's all so contradictory.
Tofu*
and it isnt ment to taste like humans:s

Vegans belive against animal cruelty NOT killing animals!
I used to be a vegan, and i ate eggs aslong as they were from my cousins where he didnt have a cockerial so it never had chance to be a chicken.

Also on the milk thing, if you think that a cow only makes milk when a cow is born, as soon as that happens the calf is pulled away and the mother is then making milk for the rest of her life. Some times there are cuts on the udder and blood often goes into the milk from being milked so much.
Why cause all that when we can get just the same from soya milk?
I think that if you had that when you are a kid then you would prefer that over milk.

Btw you do know that eating a chickens egg is like eating ur mams or sisters tampons? used ones btw

[Virgin Mary]

Tofu*
and it isnt ment to taste like humans:s

Vegans belive against animal cruelty NOT killing animals!
I used to be a vegan, and i ate eggs aslong as they were from my cousins where he didnt have a cockerial so it never had chance to be a chicken.

Also on the milk thing, if you think that a cow only makes milk when a cow is born, as soon as that happens the calf is pulled away and the mother is then making milk for the rest of her life. Some times there are cuts on the udder and blood often goes into the milk from being milked so much.
Why cause all that when we can get just the same from soya milk?
I think that if you had that when you are a kid then you would prefer that over milk.

Btw you do know that eating a chickens egg is like eating ur mams or sisters tampons? used ones btw
Sorry, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hufu I meant hufu lol. I'm a vegetarian for moral reasons.

[Browney]

Why cause all that when we can get just the same from soya milk

Soya is rank soz. I'll stick to the cows. :D xo

[shiver]

I can understand vegetarians, but vegans are a bit extreme.

[Shawnstra]

I can't live without meat lol. Its a good source of important things our body needs anyway.

[Jambe]

Yea.......... Its needed foo!

Tofu isnt good enough tbh.. Ever seen a vegitarian all bulky and stuff??

ehhh NO!
so yea vergons dont get all bulky :S

[lAdmire]

I agree with a lot of you but like people get certain nutrients && different things from animals but if you don't eat animals, where are you getting these nutrients? Also, you're missing out on a part of life. I understand vegetarians to some extent but still, not eating animals? I can't see it. Maybe it's because I've ate animals all my life, or maybe it's just, it's awkward. Not sure. But, I find it very weird not eating animals.

[Virgin Mary]

Maybe you should try a difference approach other than "NUTRIENTS!!!!!!!!". The only "nutrient" meat really contains is protein, and it's not even the most abundant source of that...

Yea.......... Its needed foo!

Tofu isnt good enough tbh.. Ever seen a vegitarian all bulky and stuff??

ehhh NO!
so yea vergons dont get all bulky :S
I don't want to be fat.

[wishing]

everyone in my school is becoming vegetarian after being shown this stupid peta propaganda video (http://bebo.com/watch/4210225719). they now all believe it's 'wrong to kill animals' and the thought of eating one makes them 'feel like puking'.

-shrug-

[vicious]

im vegetarian buts imo vegan is going to fair and is unhealthy :(



note: someone posted up above & copied my avatar.
s'not me

[[DC]eption]

[quote=GommeInc;3695797]
2. Animals are killed instantly. There is no pain.
quote]

They may not be in any pain when being killed, but during their time alive they are put through pain, kept in crampt places and kicked...

Although i agree with what you saying vegan is aload of nonsence, i mean why not eat something that comes naturally?

I can understand vegetarianism but vegan is to far.

[LeftForDead]

im vegetarian buts imo vegan is going to fair and is unhealthy :(



note: someone posted up above & copied my avatar.
s'not me
How is being a vegan unhealthy but not vegitarian?:s
Being vegan is the same you just dont eat things that werent from our species, Like a human isnt ment to drink cows milk, were ment to drink our mothers and thats it. There is more evidence that suggests that vegan is better for us then not.

[shiver]

im vegetarian buts imo vegan is going to fair and is unhealthy :(



note: someone posted up above & copied my avatar.
s'not me
i didn't copy you :S i've had it for ages

[wishing]

How is being a vegan unhealthy but not vegitarian?:s
Being vegan is the same you just dont eat things that werent from our species, Like a human isnt ment to drink cows milk, were ment to drink our mothers and thats it. There is more evidence that suggests that vegan is better for us then not.
just because 'we are meant to drink out mothers milk' doesn't mean being a vegan is better for you. cows milk is still good for you (calcium etc)

[Ezzie.]

Being a vegan isn't unhealthy, just like being vegetarian isn't unhealthy, read a long paged website giving evidence that our bodies are designed more for a vegetarian diet, heck 45% of india is vegetarian.

I wish people would stop believeing everything people say.. "meat gives tons of protein" for one, yes it gives a fair bit of protein (not much more than vegetables but still..) but you also have saturated fats, increased cholesterol yada yada..

Eat meat if you want too, you can live a healthy life if you eat a BALANCED diet, but don't dismiss the idea of vegetarianism/veganism as soon as you see the name :)

[velvet]

i'm vegan, but because i don't like meat or eggs & stuff. not because all of this animal cruelty rubbish.
& peta is a load of crap, they kill over 90% of the animals they take in most months, their videos are staged and their workers corrupt.

[GommeInc]

Being a vegan isn't unhealthy, just like being vegetarian isn't unhealthy, read a long paged website giving evidence that our bodies are designed more for a vegetarian diet, heck 45% of india is vegetarian.

I wish people would stop believeing everything people say.. "meat gives tons of protein" for one, yes it gives a fair bit of protein (not much more than vegetables but still..) but you also have saturated fats, increased cholesterol yada yada..

Eat meat if you want too, you can live a healthy life if you eat a BALANCED diet, but don't dismiss the idea of vegetarianism/veganism as soon as you see the name :)
We've had this discussion and I proved to you that meat, the fattiest being beef, isn't actually fatty or high in saturated fats "/ It's something like 14% of your daily intake, which is a 3oz piece of steak which is alot, but little fat.

[lAdmire]

I don't think it's unhealthy but I think there's some things you need from animals & from dairy products. Like really.

[GommeInc]

I think being vegan is just being picky really. Just eat what is infront of you, and stop asking what is in it, unless you dislike it (tastes yucky in your opinion) or you are allergic are the exceptions, but doing it for the sake of being annoying is, well, annoying "/ Having butter, milk, eggs is not going to kill you unless you , yourself, intentionally kill yourself with it, or do harm with yourself. Although drowning yourself in milk and egg would be considered a mental problem.

[Psychonaut]

Just randomly, I find it funny when people at McDonalds order a `hamburger without the ham`.. Kynda defies the purpose imo.

[Metric.]

gypsyssss

[Metric.]

Just randomly, I find it funny when people at McDonalds order a `hamburger without the ham`.. Kynda defies the purpose imo.


It's like ordering a vegie burger with bacon..

[GommeInc]

You can order hamburgers without ham?! Can't they just say veggie burgers? I quite like spicy bean burgers. One purposely vegetarian food I actually like. Quorn gives me stomach problems.

[Technologic]

Animals eat other animals.. It's the way life is, it's like teaching a lion to eat carrots.. ridiculous. No offence :)

[Oni]

We are naturally born to kill eachother but it doesnt mean that we should. As for being killed instantly they arent, well most are but not all. Upon entering a slaughterhouse cows, pigs etc are alive they are then jabbed with this electric thing which knocks them out/stuns them but sometimes [infrequently] they 'wake up' when they are being bled to death. I am vegetarian for moral reasons and I always will be, I see why people are vegans because of the harsh treatment of animals. For example for cows to produce milk they have to constantly have calves, these calves are taken away from them when they are born and most of the time slaughtered. Also most cows spend their lives inside and they develop sores on there body because of the hard concrete, I choose to eat free range animal products instead.

[YoManGo!]

im going vegetarian in september (first i have to go on a family holiday and live off bbq for a week ¬_¬), depending on how that goes in the future when i move out i may go vegan. but **** animal rights, its for health reasons that im interested in it. i want to stay skinny forever and never go fat :(

[GommeInc]

im going vegetarian in september (first i have to go on a family holiday and live off bbq for a week ¬_¬), depending on how that goes in the future when i move out i may go vegan. but **** animal rights, its for health reasons that im interested in it. i want to stay skinny forever and never go fat :(
Meat isn't fattening, fat is fattening :rolleyes:

Also, you don't eat animals because it is immoral? We're not the same species as the hundreds/thousands/millions of edible animals... THerefore it isn't immoral.

[:Hazel]

im not vegan but i am vegie as i have been bought up and am used to it.

[Breakfloor]

well, i know a vegan and have done since year 2 and she HATES it. her mother raised her vegan but she hates it. easter she had like half of my easter egg and now and then in the canteen i see her with meet. she doesnt do it often but i would HATE to be a vegan. all she really gets to eat is pasta and vegetables.

[GommeInc]

well, i know a vegan and have done since year 2 and she HATES it. her mother raised her vegan but she hates it. easter she had like half of my easter egg and now and then in the canteen i see her with meet. she doesnt do it often but i would HATE to be a vegan. all she really gets to eat is pasta and vegetables.
And it has to be pasta which isn't made using egg. Vegan is just being picky, vegetarian is acceptable in my books, unless you start reading the labels of things checking to see if any animal traces are in it. Just eat it, it won't kill you "/

[Ezzie.]

It kills the animal...

[GommeInc]

So? It's means the animal didn't go to waste. Meat goes to cooking etc, while the gelatin goes to sweets etc and it all tastes good to some people.

[liquid]

there is no real vegan pasta because so many animals die in the harvesting of wheat. the only way to not kill/harm any animals in your diet is to live off home grown organic fruit, vegetables and nuts.

[LeftForDead]

How can a vegan drive a car? Use a light? Have hot water?
Arent fuels dead animals from thousands of years ago?

[GommeInc]

How can a vegan drive a car? Use a light? Have hot water?
Arent fuels dead animals from thousands of years ago?
Yep except coal, so they can have a coal powered car, house etc :P I think natural gas comes from the oil, but I am not 100% certain. Maybe the extreme environmentalists are vegan? The ones that don't ride/drive anything or eat much. Afterall bike tyres, car tyres are rubber which has come from an animal (I think). You can tell my knowledge of science has died out over the years :P

[Soil]

Vegans are odd people. I wouldn't know where to start when they're involved. People can have what they want to eat, but if they have this strange belief that it is cruel or will hamr their health, they need to be shot.

1. Animals feel pain differently. We have evolved in a way which makes us more aware. An animal would barely know what's happening.
2. Animals are killed instantly. There is no pain.
3. Meat isn't fatty unless you cook it in large amounts of fat. The only part on the meat which is fatty is the white bits, the fat, the actual meat has little fat.
4, Meats have large amounts of nutrients, which is natural as opposed to unnatural vegetables which are produced genetically different.
5. Not having the produce from an animal is weird and bizarre, I no not a reason why they don't eat/drink it.

1. How do you know animals feel pain differently?
2. Not all animals are killed instantly.

Wont Vegans be like weak / fell weak / be ill all the time :s

[.:Normal...]

Sorry, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hufu I meant hufu lol. I'm a vegetarian for moral reasons.

That's sick.

[GommeInc]

1. How do you know animals feel pain differently?
2. Not all animals are killed instantly.

Wont Vegans be like weak / fell weak / be ill all the time :s
1. Because they are not self-aware like we are. Most animals do not know how to self-analyze like we do. An example I just looked up on Wikipedia.org involves shining a dot on an animals forehead. Humans (passed a certain age), apes etc reach for their forehead, rather than the mirror because they can analyze the dot appearing on them, than the mirror image.

Cows, pigs, chickens, turkeys etc all feel pain differently to us and do not perceive pain in a similar way. Some animal rights twits tput themselves in the animals position, and do not realise that they may feel pain differently and know what is going on. If it was the case, an animal (or animals) would fight back, but they simply stand there "/

2. Most are. It's only poorly handled places that kill them off poorly now.

Also, most vegans are. Only some actually feel healthy. It depends on the type of diet, if you don't like one thing, you're screwed. If you eat a variety of things with the same nutrients, you're safe.

[Ezzie.]

1. How do you know animals feel pain differently?
2. Not all animals are killed instantly.

Wont Vegans be like weak / fell weak / be ill all the time :s

Animals can feel pain, though not EVERY animal feels pain i believe, insects can't feel pain:

quite interesting:
http://www.wellcome.ac.uk/en/pain/microsite/culture2.html

and nah vegans can live full healthy lives from birth all the way to death, reducing dairy has been shown to reduce the build up of cholesterol and chances of osteoporosis- also calcium can be obtained from green leafy plants :)

I'm transitioning into veganism myself at the moment.. quitting cheese is really hard though.. quit meat literally overnight but cheese BAH! :(:P

Also gomme:
Well-known vegan sports people include:
Sally Eastall, marathon runner
Keith Holmes, former world champion middleweight boxer
Carl Lewis, winner of nine Olympic Gold Medals and one of the greatest athletes of the twentieth century
Martina Navratilova, champion tennis player - one of the most successful tennis players in history
Dave Scott, six-time Ironman Champion and first inductee into the Ironman Hall of Fame
Lucy Stephens, triathleteCarl lewis.. yeah.. such a sickly weakling...

also from wikipedia that you love..



Benefits

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f6/Vegan_food_pyramid.svg/300px-Vegan_food_pyramid.svg.png (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Vegan_food_pyramid.svg) http://en.wikipedia.org/skins-1.5/common/images/magnify-clip.png (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Vegan_food_pyramid.svg)
Vegan version of the nutritional food pyramid (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Food_pyramid) which normally includes meat and animal products.


Certain widespread diets (such as the standard American diet (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standard_American_Diet), which is high in fat and low in fiber and green vegetables) are detrimental to health, and a vegan diet thus represents an improvement,[52] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vegan#_note-cornell_china_study)[53] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vegan#_note-corness_nutrition) in part because vegan diets are often high enough in fruit and vegetables to meet or exceed the recommended fruit and vegetable intakes. Conversely, studies in Japan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japan) found that increased consumption of some animal products coincided with a decrease in risk for some forms of cerebrovascular disease (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cerebrovascular_disease) and stroke mortality.[54] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vegan#_note-Japan_study)
Some vegans feel additional health benefits are gained by eating food with minimal levels of substances such as growth hormones (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Growth_hormone) and antibiotics (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antibiotics), which are often given to intensively farmed animals in countries where this is legal.[55] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vegan#_note-bgh) Because they are similar to human hormones, growth-promoters such as anabolic steroids (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anabolic_steroid) that are used in cattle farming in America may affect fetal and childhood development.[56] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vegan#_note-10)[57] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vegan#_note-11)[58] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vegan#_note-12) Due to this uncertainty, the use of such growth promoters is illegal in the European community (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_community).[59] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vegan#_note-13)
Benefits of vegetarian diets are sometimes also valid for strict vegan diets: according to the American Dietetic Association and Dietitians of Canada, diets that avoid meat tend to have lower levels of saturated fat, cholesterol, and animal protein, and higher levels of carbohydrates, fiber, magnesium, potassium, folate, and antioxidants, such as vitamins C (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitamin_C) and E (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tocopherol), and phytochemicals.[60] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vegan#_note-adajournal) People who avoid meat are reported to have lower body mass indices (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Body_mass_index) than those following the average Canadian diet; from this follows lower death rates from ischemic heart disease (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ischemic_heart_disease); lower blood cholesterol levels; lower blood pressure; and lower rates of hypertension, type 2 diabetes, and prostate and colon cancer.[60] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vegan#_note-adajournal)
The American Dietetic Association states that well-planned vegan diets can also be appropriate for life cycles requiring high nutritional intake such as pregnancy, lactation, childhood, and adolescence.[60] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vegan#_note-adajournal)
A pilot study (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pilot_study) at Georgetown University (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgetown_University) on 2005 suggested that a vegan diet can reduce blood cholesterol in people with type 2 diabetes, as well as significantly reduce the complications of this disease.[61] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vegan#_note-diabetes)
Vegan athletes compete in a variety of sports, including powerlifting (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Powerlifting), bodybuilding (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bodybuilding), martial arts (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martial_arts), and long distance running.[62] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vegan#_note-14)[63] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vegan#_note-15) Multiple Olympic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olympic_Games) gold medallist Carl Lewis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carl_Lewis) has stated that he became vegan in 1990 and achieved his "best year of track competition" in 1991 when he ate a vegan diet.[64] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vegan#_note-veryvegcarllewis)

[GommeInc]

I said it varies according to what vegans eat, because they're vegans means you have a smaller variety of sources for nutrients while with a full diet, you have more. Meat isn't fattening, that argument was made up by some dumb vegan/vegetarian who forgot that fat was fattening, not the meat itself. Most dairy products are fattening, except for hundreds of products proven to reduce cholesterol.

Also, wikipedia provides information which can collide with other information. It is only a source, while experience and reason makes the argument go for further by using that information as a guide and combining it with other sources. I believe it was you, was it not, that made up the dumb theory that ALL meat is fattening? I provided proof that the 'fattiest' meat, beef wasn't fattening in terms of large amounts of fat and eating it would make you chunkier than Peter off of Family Guy "/ It was around 14% of your daily allowance of fats, and that was a 3oz steak which is enough to feel you up for dinner and was cooked in oil which added towards it aswell, I believe.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Food_pyramid

Also, again your argument is not with this country. Cattle is dealt with alot differently in the UK than the US, they're by far worse than the UK at treating animals and cooking.

Also, your signature makes me laugh. You can make peace at a buffet where meat is served the same with just vegetables and pasta. There can be peace and harmony wiuth animal slaughter "/

[Virgin Mary]

I don't really care what anyone eats except myself, but hate how veganism is taken on like a religion that has to be preached. I don't see what's immoral about eating animal products other than how some industries choose to gain them. If a cow isn't milked it can become infected and a chicken laying an unfertilised egg is like a woman having her period. There is no cruelty in the basic concept. Eat what you like but don't try and justify it with skewed ideas.

[Soil]

1. Because they are not self-aware like we are. Most animals do not know how to self-analyze like we do. An example I just looked up on Wikipedia.org involves shining a dot on an animals forehead. Humans (passed a certain age), apes etc reach for their forehead, rather than the mirror because they can analyze the dot appearing on them, than the mirror image.

Cows, pigs, chickens, turkeys etc all feel pain differently to us and do not perceive pain in a similar way. Some animal rights twits tput themselves in the animals position, and do not realise that they may feel pain differently and know what is going on. If it was the case, an animal (or animals) would fight back, but they simply stand there "/


I still disagree. Science cant proove everything. How do you know the pain they feel isn't worse? As long as they have (damn forgot what its called. sensitive cells / nerons or whatever), they can feel pain.

[Ezzie.]

I don't really care what anyone eats except myself, but hate how veganism is taken on like a religion that has to be preached. I don't see what's immoral about eating animal products other than how some industries choose to gain them. If a cow isn't milked it can become infected and a chicken laying an unfertilised egg is like a woman having her period. There is no cruelty in the basic concept. Eat what you like but don't try and justify it with skewed ideas.

Hmm yeah.. but it's the moral reasons behind it really- ie: for a cow to produce milk it needs to produce young or be producing young, nearly all of the calves birthed are then put into a tiny box so their flesh goes pale etc.
Also with chickens, they have to fertilise some of the eggs (not put into production of cause) to produce more hens- the males get killed as they're of no real use most of the time, then you can move onto battery hens =/

But meh.. I suppose when somebody sees such corruption and injustice in the world they want to do something about it but that's just my opinion on it.

Gomme, please.. original... material.. you've used that fat argument about 10 times already throughout a variety of threads everytime overlooking that i was basing my "fat" argument on the typical diet where they don't *obviously* cut the fat out, get it now?





Also, your signature makes me laugh. You can make peace at a buffet where meat is served the same with just vegetables and pasta. There can be peace and harmony wiuth animal slaughter "/

There can be peace with killing.. wha? Sorry you've lostme..

[velocity]

seriously, idc.

you only live once; its part of a healthy lifestyle and if you didnt kill them they'd overbreed and we'd be swamped with them. im sure they dont really care if their fellow cow gets killed and put on my plate. theyre not as superior as us, therefore they dont need the same rights as us, sure, they have some and theyre in a manageable environment.

so who really cares? stop spending your life looking after animals or w/e when your not actually going to get anything in return, if you dont like it then dont go about preaching about how we are in the wrong, because your annoying and make yourself look stupid. if you think so seriously about it you wouldnt just be sat here at a computer. get outside & do something about it..

[Ezzie.]

seriously, idc.

you only live once; its part of a healthy lifestyle and if you didnt kill them they'd overbreed and we'd be swamped with them. im sure they dont really care if their fellow cow gets killed and put on my plate. theyre not as superior as us, therefore they dont need the same rights as us, sure, they have some and theyre in a manageable environment.

so who really cares? stop spending your life looking after animals or w/e when your not actually going to get anything in return, if you dont like it then dont go about preaching about how we are in the wrong, because your annoying and make yourself look stupid. if you think so seriously about it you wouldnt just be sat here at a computer. get outside & do something about it..

Well considering we overbreed them to kill them then no they wouldn't overbreed they'd goto a normal population size over time but they've been selectively bread so they produce to much milk for their calves.

and the rest.. just lol... in an honest opinion if you want to eat meat eat it, sadly it's been too much indented into the status quo we can't do an incredble amount, and "preaching" is just stating facts and correcting people when they make out that vegans/vegetarians are a bunch of sickly people..

and i've been out all week. hence the long replies?
Maybe you should go out and relieve abit of anger..

[velocity]

yeah, give me a gun and a few vegetarians who think eating meat is so violent and i'll show them the true meaning.

[GommeInc]

Gomme, please.. original... material.. you've used that fat argument about 10 times already throughout a variety of threads everytime overlooking that i was basing my "fat" argument on the typical diet where they don't *obviously* cut the fat out, get it now?
I'm glad you've accepted your wrong, and there isn't alot of fat in meat even if you don't cut it out, unless you have a few ozs of the stuff drooping off it. It also seems to be the main argument you have with meat, suggesting it is incredibly unhealthy. It isn't, it is the opposite.


There can be peace with killing.. wha? Sorry you've lostme..
They're animals, they're food "/ You must be pretty simple minded to think killing an animal can disrupt harmony and peace.

It also isn't 'immoral' to kill an animal. We can eat them and it isn't wrong unless you relate yourself with the 'pain' it is going through, which is a sadist approach to it. Maybe all vegetarians and vegans that dislike animals being eaten are just sadists?


I still disagree. Science cant proove everything. How do you know the pain they feel isn't worse? As long as they have (damn forgot what its called. sensitive cells / nerons or whatever), they can feel pain.
The science behind it has given some idea as to what the animal goes through. Psycholigcally, it really doesn't have a clue, it hasn't got the awareness of it's surroundings and itself as much as a human or another type of animal which is self-aware (apes, dolphins, elephants etc). But then again science can be wrong, but it seems more probable that the animal is obviously feeling pain, but not to the extent we are and they cannot associate other thoughts like a sharp object, or watching an animal before it get killed and imagine it happening to itself. ANother rreason why cattle, pigs etc are said to not really know what is going on, because it lacks the association of ideas.

[Ezzie.]

Gomme i fullwell accept that if you cut the fat out then it makes it less harmful, it wasn't what i was getting at, if you look at the consumption of meat in say the united states (another country yes i know but we all live on this world together) it's just ridiculous, the amount of meat they eat is huge also, all that stuff rotting in your colon.. yum ^^ but meh.

Also: my main argument isn't with the health of meat, more with how we treat the animals before slaughter and at slaughter is my main concern, although it's been proven by the american diet association that cutting out meat has health benefits but alas, if you have meat in moderation (not just meat and two veg) then you'd be living alot healthier anyhow.

As i've stated before, i believe humans are primary vegetarians with the ability to eat meat in case of dire need (such as the boomeh[sp] tribe) they live mainly vegetarian but eat the blood of the cattle (a knife stuck into a vein, not actually killing the animal) they'll only kill them in dire famine etc.

And the second point comes down to morales.. i personally believe animals do feel pain whether it be mental or physical, cattle have been noted to experience very bad stress when they enter slaugter houses and see dead cattle around them, could that be seen as stress or just an instinctual warning to get out.. either way science can't prove it all until we get some sort of animal mind reading equipment ^^

Also one point, did you know chickens are as intelligent as most primates? So could they be seen as self aware and thus they feel pain when slaughtered?

[Simmzay]

I accept it when people choose a different lifestyle, if they claim there's a moral reasoning to it then I really don't care. It's when they impose their beliefs onto others that really bothers me. When I eat meat I am not "pro-slaughter-to-various-animals", I'm simply in need of a good meal. Separating indifference to intentional cruelty is what's important here.

[GommeInc]

Gomme i fullwell accept that if you cut the fat out then it makes it less harmful, it wasn't what i was getting at, if you look at the consumption of meat in say the united states (another country yes i know but we all live on this world together) it's just ridiculous, the amount of meat they eat is huge also, all that stuff rotting in your colon.. yum ^^ but meh.
Ah the American diet makes me sick, I can eat meat yes, but I wouldn't actually want that much... I do like a mixture of everything. I think there was a show on ages ago that studied American people and they prodded what came out and apparently it wasnt very pretty. This was someone that ate far too much cake, kebabs, beef and it was all the cheap, badly prepared meat on top of that. So I can see why a vegetarian diet may make them healthier... Thankfully Europe and the UK are actually sorting out the issues with the preparation of meat and how the animals are treated, although it seems that there will always be some farms doing something wrong.


Also: my main argument isn't with the health of meat, more with how we treat the animals before slaughter and at slaughter is my main concern, although it's been proven by the american diet association that cutting out meat has health benefits but alas, if you have meat in moderation (not just meat and two veg) then you'd be living alot healthier anyhow.
Which is what I tend to do. I wouldn't eat just meat, it gets pretty sickly in the stomach which is why a mixture makes it digest easier and I do feel alot healthier eating a mixture of food. I seem to feel yucky without meat, but apparently my health requires a meat included diet along the lines. Whether that is true or not I don't know. I belive it was you who said something that you had to eat meat because it made you ill? My cousin is like that, but she doesn't mind helping prepare a meal which includes meat, she just can't stomach it.


As i've stated before, i believe humans are primary vegetarians with the ability to eat meat in case of dire need (such as the boomeh[sp] tribe) they live mainly vegetarian but eat the blood of the cattle (a knife stuck into a vein, not actually killing the animal) they'll only kill them in dire famine etc.
It's sort of a culture clash now it seems, I think because we've evolved in this country to have a meat included diet (for the obvious ones that can eat meat or do rather) we can make it readily available, while to a tribe such as the Boomeh (sp :P) it isn't as easy to come by and they find it easier to grow crops and drink milk which they mix with the blood, which is making the animal last longer. Even though the thought of just cutting a vein makes me slightly ill for some strange reason :S


And the second point comes down to morales.. i personally believe animals do feel pain whether it be mental or physical, cattle have been noted to experience very bad stress when they enter slaugter houses and see dead cattle around them, could that be seen as stress or just an instinctual warning to get out.. either way science can't prove it all until we get some sort of animal mind reading equipment ^^
It's weird because there is no real answer, they feel pain, but no one actually knows if it is the same pain as we do and whether or not they associate the animal infront dying with what they may experience within a matter of seconds. If they let it suffer, then I disagree, I am all for a happy organic life before hand (and I tend to buy meat from animals which have eaten organic feed etc) but all this intense farming makes the meat taste differently and sometimes discusting because of how it suffered. Whether or not is felt anything at the time is really out of the case.


Also one point, did you know chickens are as intelligent as most primates? So could they be seen as self aware and thus they feel pain when slaughtered?
Urrrgh, I now need to think back to my Philosophy lessons. It depends in what way they are intelligent, like parrots can talk, but they're really just recording and playing back what someone has said to them, rather than forming real words or remembering them (although some breeds of parrot do remember things forever, some don't). I suppose if they were self-aware, they would do something to stop the harm of themselves and others. It's a weird subject to revolve around, I kinda slipped into sleep when it came to it :P

[CrazyColaist]

Vegans are odd people.


thanks ily2

anyway

we get our prot from fruit and vegibals.

[Rashelly]

I don't care if this is an old thread - it's on the first page anyway.
I just like laughing at these threads, everyone says they're vegetarian because they don't like the thought of animals being killed.
I think vegetarians are pathetic. Yes, I said pathetic.
Vegans on the other hand, I have no problem with - it's their beliefs, their life, they can do what they want with it.
Vegans cut meat and all produce that comes from animals out all together, because they feel it's wrong. Vegetarians are just doing a half-assed job, and are quite hypocritical IMO. How can someone be against killing/mistreating of animals and still eat/drink cheese/milk/eggs/fish etc? The animals are still being bred to serve that purpose - and will probably end up being slaughtered.
I also wonder how many people on this thread that claim to be vegan/vegetarian wear clothing/shoes made from animal parts, or eat crisps/sweets with animal produce in (not just dairy chocolate, most sweets&crisps contain something that came from an animal)

To conclude - vegetarians are stupid, vegans have the right to believe whatever they want
Oh yeah, you can live perfectly healthy eating meat or not eating meat, you just find other sources of nutrients.

One last thing - PETA is the devil in disguise. They blatantly use propaganda and celebrities to intice the gullable and young.

WOOHOO FOR LATE NIGHT RAMBLING.

[Ezzie.]

I don't care if this is an old thread - it's on the first page anyway.
I just like laughing at these threads, everyone says they're vegetarian because they don't like the thought of animals being killed.
I think vegetarians are pathetic. Yes, I said pathetic.
Vegans on the other hand, I have no problem with - it's their beliefs, their life, they can do what they want with it.
Vegans cut meat and all produce that comes from animals out all together, because they feel it's wrong. Vegetarians are just doing a half-assed job, and are quite hypocritical IMO. How can someone be against killing/mistreating of animals and still eat/drink cheese/milk/eggs/fish etc? The animals are still being bred to serve that purpose - and will probably end up being slaughtered.
I also wonder how many people on this thread that claim to be vegan/vegetarian wear clothing/shoes made from animal parts, or eat crisps/sweets with animal produce in (not just dairy chocolate, most sweets&crisps contain something that came from an animal)

To conclude - vegetarians are stupid, vegans have the right to believe whatever they want
Oh yeah, you can live perfectly healthy eating meat or not eating meat, you just find other sources of nutrients.

One last thing - PETA is the devil in disguise. They blatantly use propaganda and celebrities to intice the gullable and young.

WOOHOO FOR LATE NIGHT RAMBLING.

Good points to be honest, as i said previously i'm going into veganism now, for some it's a long journey, over like 10 years, but meh, they're still cutting out abit of cruelty, also you're not taking notice of vegans/vegetarians who do it for health reasons. The hardest bit for me going vegan is cheese, but i've quit that for 2 weeks and going strong! ^_^ About the clothes etc, currently i wear leather trainers, absolutely despise them but going to wait till they wear out or i can give them to a mate: anyway: one could say that all the chemical processes used to make artificial shoes (forgot the word- tiredness) would actually harm more animals than buying a leather pair of trainers but *shrug*

[liquid]

anyway: one could say that all the chemical processes used to make artificial shoes (forgot the word- tiredness) would actually harm more animals than buying a leather pair of trainers but *shrug*

i think i've said it before, but the only way you can really be nice to animals is to live off homegrown organic fruit and vegetables and walk around naked and dirty.

[Ezzie.]

i think i've said it before, but the only way you can really be nice to animals is to live off homegrown organic fruit and vegetables and walk around naked and dirty.


Hmm i wouldn't say that.. i think you can make clothes out of hemp and such.