Complaints Forum Poll

[Catzsy]

We are now presented with a new innovation in which Mad says that to
avoid 'endless discussions' he has come up with a complaints forum to ensure an answer from Higher Management?

Link:
http://www.habboxforum.com/showthread.php?p=4078913#post4078913

Is this just another way of not letting members voice their opinions on the standard of service provided by Habbox Forum and preventing a discussion on topics or is it a really good way of dealing with the members issues?

My view is that there is no need for it and the only reason there are any 'endless discussions' is when some higher management do not actually do their job and reply to the threads when members suggest ideas as we have seen lately including a great idea for a Habbox Council suggested by one of its own Managers?

Free speech which has always been a cornerstone of this forum appears to be getting more and more stifled.

[Lycan]

I was thinking a similar thing, is it just to prevent us grouping together over a topic? , is one voice easier to quiet then a group

[GommeInc]

This should go in the complaints forum :rolleyes: :P

Free speech died out years ago on Habbox Forum. The management go into hiding while moderators and super moderators get the abuse. This doesn't feel like a community anymore, it's an orchestra of confusing rules and terrible management skills which, instead of sounding like Lux Aeterna by Clint Mansell, it sounds like aload of children whacking aload of cheap instruments. There needs to be something done...

[Neversoft]

I think it's a good idea. Having only higher management reply will get things done a lot faster, get a straighter reply, avoid many pointless arguments and much more. When there was no complaints forum, complaint threads were lacking one thing - A reply from higher management. So hopefully that won't be the case anymore. Yes, users should be allowed their opinions on complaints about Habbox, but this idea might work if given a chance.

[N!ck]

I think members should be able to choose weather their thread goes in the Complaints forum where only they and admins can reply or stays in "Habbox Feedback" where anyone can discuss, rather than all complaints getting moved to the complaints forum.

[benjamin]

The complaints forum is a good idea but everyone should still be able to voice their opinion in the thread?

[WarezKid]

I argee with nick, i would want the public to help me (Coward :P) me with something's if you know what i mean ;l


Also agree with ben!

[FlyingJesus]

Bad idea. If the higher management could reply to each thread in a complaints forum they can reply to the ones here, it makes no sense. To make myself an example, my thread about the forum games area has gone untouched upon by anyone with the power to change things, despite having a lot of feedback, discussion, explanation and the inclusion/support of a fair amount of staff. If they can't even be bothered to check out such a thread, why would they bother with a tiny complaint which could hold no more than one post? Also as others have said, it's easier to hush one voice than many.

To summarise, it's unnecessary because there's already a forum (here) for complaints and they don't even reply to that, let alone another one.

[Ostinato]

I think the only reason they won't the blimming complaints forum is so they don't have to go through large threads and read it all before coming to a conclusion.

So in short - they can hear the first persons argument and come to a decision and response based upon that.

However, that isn't the way Habbox should work and isn't the way it has worked. Some of the greatest developments on Habbox in the previous years have came through user discussion and input from several members - stemming off from one original idea. For instance, someone may post a good original idea but just not have constructed it very well - which other users could then add to to help improve the idea further and make it totally complete.

Likewise, if someone posts an idea then the management can see whether users are supporting it or rejecting it as they could maybe read a complain and act upon it even though the rest of the forum disagrees.

In conclusion, it is ultimately taking away one of our main and most important rights that we have witheld from the beginning of being Habbox members.

[Nemo]

No, the management don't know what we want!

[Cixso]

It's to prevent arguments.

Maybe the management are slamming the hammer down on it.

I think it is a good move.

[Ostinato]

There's a difference between arguments and debates and maybe the management can't see the thin line between these clear enough?

We have moderators for a reason, and therefore creating forums such as this shouldn't be to "prevent arguments" as it is the moderators job to deal with arguments if they outbreak, and there is nothing wrong with a healthy debate - especially when it regards the development of our community.

[joshuar]

Well MAD said it was for "Complaining as a replacement to the Contact Us, which is ineffective". So if you want a one-on-one with the Management about a situation then that is the place to do so. Ideas regarding the development of Habbox should still be placed in this forum as it is Feedback. Ideas don't always have to be complaints.

Bear in mind I am answering this as a member as I cannot give a full answer as I know as much as you know on how this forum works.

[N!ck]

There's a difference between arguments and debates and maybe the management can't see the thin line between these clear enough?

We have moderators for a reason, and therefore creating forums such as this shouldn't be to "prevent arguments" as it is the moderators job to deal with arguments if they outbreak, and there is nothing wrong with a healthy debate - especially when it regards the development of our community.

True. But what if members don't want their complaint debated about and just want an answer?

[Ostinato]

True. But what if members don't want their complaint debated about and just want an answer?

Then they can PM someone to deal with it? :S The way we have always been doing it...

Or failing that and the complaints forum is so necessary, it should be leniant allowing people to post 'complaints' here if they wish to discuss them further and get feedback from others.

[Catzsy]

Well MAD said it was for "Complaining as a replacement to the Contact Us, which is ineffective". So if you want a one-on-one with the Management about a situation then that is the place to do so. Ideas regarding the development of Habbox should still be placed in this forum as it is Feedback. Ideas don't always have to be complaints.

Bear in mind I am answering this as a member as I cannot give a full answer as I know as much as you know on how this forum works.

I can see the arguement for it replacing the contact form and if this is the case it should be private as the report serious abuse section as people may not want to complain if they know the whole forum can see what is being said.

Unfortunately He also said this:

This also means that any complaints made in the main part of the Habbox feedback forum will be moved into there. There are no strict guidelines as to what is and what isn't a complaint although it will usually be obvious what a complaint is and what a suggestion/question is. Anything an AGM or admin feels is a complaint will be moved into there to avoid endless discussions and come to a solution as quick as possible (or at least a reply from upper management).


The above is the problem as explained in my thread starter post as it appears to be intended to censor the opinions of the members and limit any meaningful discussion. I guess its a 'no' to the Habbox Council then lol :)

[joshuar]

I can see the arguement for it replacing the contact form and if this is the case it should be private as the report serious abuse section as people may not want to complain if they know the whole forum can see what is being said.

Unfortunately He also said this:

This also means that any complaints made in the main part of the Habbox feedback forum will be moved into there. There are no strict guidelines as to what is and what isn't a complaint although it will usually be obvious what a complaint is and what a suggestion/question is. Anything an AGM or admin feels is a complaint will be moved into there to avoid endless discussions and come to a solution as quick as possible (or at least a reply from upper management).


The above is the problem as explained in my thread starter post as it appears to be intended to censor the opinions of the members and limit any meaningful discussion. I guess its a 'no' to the Habbox Council then lol :)

I'd assume that it will be threads that just need a upper management reply, like "I've been banned, why have I been banned?" would probably be moved to complaint's as only 1 response is needed really.

I do see your point about the privacy of certain complaints, but I am sure a PM to ---MAD--- or another AGM would do.

The Habbox Council idea was bumped by myself again in the Managers forum and hopefully more action will be taken by ---MAD--- to implent it :) (as he is involved in discussing it with the managers).

[Soil]

Simple answer to this.

If the thread creator wants other users to be able to reply, he / she will not close the thread.

If the user only wants an answer from management, then the user will select the "Close thread after creation" option.

This means that this will be the only forum where non-vips will be allowed to close their thread (I think thats possible to do in admincp).

If not, the users will simply have to put "I only want an aswer from management". This means, that other users should not be allowed to reply. If they do = warning?

[GommeInc]

3 of the topics in there so far need everyones opinions "/

[jrh2002]

I like general complaints that everybody can debate and don't like the idea of them only being replied to by Admin etc.

On the other hand it will be good where there are individual complaints by members that get replied to by the people that should reply, not just any member who wants to stick their nose in to something that does not affect them or is anything to do with them.

Maybe all the complaints will at least get a reply now instead of being lost among the feedback.

Only time will tell if it works or not or if something needs changing to make it work :)

We need a not sure option on the poll ;)

[bo$$]

I suggested this like.. a few months back and you guys said it would be a bad idea as too many people would be breaking the rules and such, but there's a thread there that says "I hate Earthquake" and there has been no consequences for that action..


Oh well.

[Lycan]

perhaps allowing people to post in both would be a wise idea rather then telling people all complaints will be moved to the complaints section

[jrh2002]

perhaps allowing people to post in both would be a wise idea rather then telling people all complaints will be moved to the complaints section

You are probably right :)

I was thinking post here then the individual complaints get moved to complaints? perhaps it would work better if all complaints were posted in complaints and then ones that would benefit from a group discussion get moved to here.

[Lycan]

But then its the Admins who would decide such things , I guess it could go ether way but i'm not its the threads getting moved to complaints that probebly is the problem.

Anyone who wants to make a complaint directly to the admins can use the complaints forum which is a great idea for thoose sort of problems

But thoose who want to discuss the problems with others (which normally brings better ideas) should just be left in the feedback.

[GommeInc]

You are probably right :)

I was thinking post here then the individual complaints get moved to complaints? perhaps it would work better if all complaints were posted in complaints and then ones that would benefit from a group discussion get moved to here.
I think that idea would work, if it is plainly obvious that it's between a member and the managers of Habbox, then it could be moved like "Why did I get fired" or "why am I banned?" Making the complaints forum hidden would also make it easier, so that you can't see other peoples threads.

[joshuar]

I agree with Lycan, I think if we think a general discussion is required, we move it from Complaints back into here.

As I said, I think just things that require direct communication with Management should be posted in that forum, as using PM to PM the whole management team can get a bit messy.

We can see how it goes and improve it from there really. I think maybe a more direct layout of how it works should be posted in this forum.

[Catzsy]

I like general complaints that everybody can debate and don't like the idea of them only being replied to by Admin etc.

On the other hand it will be good where there are individual complaints by members that get replied to by the people that should reply, not just any member who wants to stick their nose in to something that does not affect them or is anything to do with them.

Maybe all the complaints will at least get a reply now instead of being lost among the feedback.

Only time will tell if it works or not or if something needs changing to make it work :)

We need a not sure option on the poll ;)


Habbox Feedback is for the members and the forum would not exist without the members - they ARE Habbox Forum. There is not much that would effect them although over the recent months some of the management has got more negative with comments like 'we should know our place' and indeed I am shocked to see you say that members stick their nose in and basically meddle in things that don't have anything to do with them. A specific example of this would be really be appreciated. Everything that happens on this forum effects the members in some way the problem is that there is no flexibility or compromise - its the managers way or no way. I am sure that management on this forum should be accountable and responsible for their actions as they are in the real world and not inconsistent and downright dismissive and seemingly very uncaring on occasions. This is the 21st Century when democracy and participation by the masses is common as opposed to Victorian times when 'servants and the lower classes knew their place'. As to the not sure option - all I have to say is what a cop out :) :P

Joshuar the power of expression is lost if what is discussed in this feedback forum is not decided by the members. Who was Habbox Forum originally created for?

[jrh2002]

But then its the Admins who would decide such things , I guess it could go ether way but i'm not its the threads getting moved to complaints that probebly is the problem.

Anyone who wants to make a complaint directly to the admins can use the complaints forum which is a great idea for thoose sort of problems

But thoose who want to discuss the problems with others (which normally brings better ideas) should just be left in the feedback.

That would work for me :)

Maybe make the complaints forum work similar to the report serious abuse or rule breaking forum, it would do the same job as the contact email but give more of the admin etc the chance to reply instead of the selected few.

[Lycan]

You could still involve the moving thread

If the Threadstarter doesn't include i don't know... the tag [Public] in the title.

[GommeInc]

You could still involve the moving thread

If the Threadstarter doesn't include i don't know... the tag [Public] in the title.
That's just wasted effort... What's wrong with making a thread private when the thread starter is directing a question at a particular member of the management and makes it obvious it is between someone who is part of management and themself.

[Galaxay1]

Its been changed by jrh2002.

[Catzsy]

Are Jrh2002 and Mad the same people then:O

[Galaxay1]

No? Why would you say that..

[Ostinato]

Habbox Feedback is for the members and the forum would not exist without the members - they ARE Habbox Forum. There is not much that would effect them although over the recent months some of the management has got more negative with comments like 'we should know our place' and indeed I am shocked to see you say that members stick their nose in and basically meddle in things that don't have anything to do with them. A specific example of this would be really be appreciated. Everything that happens on this forum effects the members in some way the problem is that there is no flexibility or compromise - its the managers way or no way. I am sure that management on this forum should be accountable and responsible for their actions as they are in the real world and not inconsistent and downright dismissive and seemingly very uncaring on occasions. This is the 21st Century when democracy and participation by the masses is common as opposed to Victorian times when 'servants and the lower classes knew their place'. As to the not sure option - all I have to say is what a cop out :) :P

Joshuar the power of expression is lost if what is discussed in this feedback forum is not decided by the members. Who was Habbox Forum originally created for?

Perfect post summing up my opinion of this :)

[Ostinato]

I suggested this like.. a few months back and you guys said it would be a bad idea as too many people would be breaking the rules and such, but there's a thread there that says "I hate Earthquake" and there has been no consequences for that action..


Oh well.

Well tbh a lot of threads created have been going unnoticed lately even though they re pointless/offensive yet admins have the time to give out silly infractions to people... :rolleyes:

[Galaxay1]

Well tbh a lot of threads created have been going unnoticed lately even though they re pointless/offensive yet admins have the time to give out silly infractions to people... :rolleyes:

The the most sensible way to deal with it

Oh what should i deal with rules breakings or some suggestions :rolleyes:

Basically like the police going

*Oh should we arrest this guy for killing someone, or we could just take the suggestion and change the layout of our offices*

:rolleyes:

[bo$$]

Its been changed by jrh2002.

After MAD himself posted there..

@aboveabove that's true.. alot of crap has been being posted lately and gotten away with for quite a bit of time.

[Beau]

I wholeheartedly doubt that there is a giant consipracy regarding this issue, as many of you seem to be suggesting. As far as I can see, there's nothing stopping you from posting threads in other areas of the forum for discussion. It's just small things, things that can be answered in one post. Also, it's an area that 'Higher Management' can check quickly, and see all the threads posted, without having to go rifling through several forums, trying to find problems with the site.

[Agesilaus]

In some cases there is the chance that someone is going to make some pretty direct and disruptive comment on what you're complaining about which is not needed and they might think it's better if they just have management responses. On the other hand some people might want to have a discussion about it with other users and get their opinions. Polls are great for that use.

[Grig]

The complaint forum ruins the notion of 'free thought'. A lot will be lost without members' imput into a number of various questions. Habbox Forum always had a great community and could be viewed as the 'people's forum' (being a bit Socialist here, but there we go!) A lot of people have voiced their opinion on a number of aspects and Habbox has improved from them. I think (even thought this probably will never happen) that yes everyone should have their voice in the complaints forum, in order to make the Habbox community a better one for everyone.

[Galaxay1]

The complaint forum ruins the notion of 'free thought'. A lot will be lost without members' imput into a number of various questions. Habbox Forum always had a great community and could be viewed as the 'people's forum' (being a bit Socialist here, but there we go!) A lot of people have voiced their opinion on a number of aspects and Habbox has improved from them. I think (even thought this probably will never happen) that yes everyone should have their voice in the complaints forum, in order to make the Habbox community a better one for everyone.

Habbox suggestions will still get users inputs? just not complaints as it always turn into a thread aimed at a specific member of an arguement.

[reindeer.]

Now come on, as much as we probably all don't like the way Mad runs things, you're nit-picking now. Just let them get on with their job: if they think this will work then it probably will work. Stop making silly excuses and get off their backs!

[Catzsy]

Now come on, as much as we probably all don't like the way Mad runs things, you're nit-picking now. Just let them get on with their job: if they think this will work then it probably will work. Stop making silly excuses and get off their backs!

You know there are probably only about 3/4 suggestions/constructive criticism threads a week - how long would that take to consider? A matter of minutes each. It really isn't nit picking. They have changed the fundamental way in which members communicate their opinions on the way Habbox is
doing well, could improve or is just failing. Padraig under the new system you would not be allowed to say what you have said above because you are not the thread starter. I have noticed a vast drop in the amount of VIP members in the last few months ( I am sure I will be corrected if that is not the case) so surely that is a symptom that things are not well here and a system that denies the members an opinion will make them feel a lot less valued than they now even though they are stll ignored half the time.

[reindeer.]

well then let them ruin their own forum ;)

[Nixt]

Well MAD said it was for "Complaining as a replacement to the Contact Us, which is ineffective".


Then the best way of doing it is to make the Forum like the report serious rule breaking Forum, as it's private like the contact us form complaints would have been. Members should also have the choice to post complaints here or there, as certain problems might be better solved if the community come together and discuss what they want - as it is the community you should be changing things / solving things for.

[jrh2002]

Perhaps just alter the serious rule breaking forum etc to allow for individual questions like would be sent to the contact us form or complaints against staff or other members (they should go there anyway and not here like people seem to post them)

Of course anybody posting in the feedback forum directing their thread against a member would have to be warned/punished.

The amount of stuff that appears in the feedback forums which should be closed, dumped or thrown in the spam forum is unbelievable.

[Catzsy]

Perhaps just alter the serious rule breaking forum etc to allow for individual questions like would be sent to the contact us form or complaints against staff or other members (they should go there anyway and not here like people seem to post them)

Of course anybody posting in the feedback forum directing their thread against a member would have to be warned/punished.

The amount of stuff that appears in the feedback forums which should be closed, dumped or thrown in the spam forum is unbelievable.

Examples, James? If they break the forum rules or are spam I agree with you but that is up to the moderators surely?

[nvrspk4]

Personally I don't think the complaints forum was the best idea. I think one or two things should be done.

Members have the choice to pick where they post it - but that doesn't assure them of a management reply if they post in the main forum, nor does it ensure that the management replies to the actual point they made. The management will discuss the point they made if in the complaints forum.

Members have the complaint thread copied into complaints. AGMs will only reply in the complaints threads (or rather, they only have to), however members can talk it over in the normal forum. If someone raises a good point, the member is able to pitch it in their own thread in the complaints forum, however it is usually more flame-free as the member has an interest in keeping the thread open, and its also very effective.


No, the management don't know what we want!

That made me lol. We are humans too you know :rolleyes:

[Catzsy]

Personally I don't think the complaints forum was the best idea. I think one or two things should be done.

Members have the choice to pick where they post it - but that doesn't assure them of a management reply if they post in the main forum, nor does it ensure that the management replies to the actual point they made. The management will discuss the point they made if in the complaints forum.

Members have the complaint thread copied into complaints. AGMs will only reply in the complaints threads (or rather, they only have to), however members can talk it over in the normal forum. If someone raises a good point, the member is able to pitch it in their own thread in the complaints forum, however it is usually more flame-free as the member has an interest in keeping the thread open, and its also very effective.
That made me lol. We are humans too you know :rolleyes:



Well this is a great post and I see where you are coming from here. I still do not understand why the really good suggestions in this forum go unanswered in this forum where there is really good support for them from other members.
Can I clarify then we are only guaranteed a reply if we put them in the complaints forum? Does this mean that the 2/3 really good suggestions lately can be pasted into there to get a reply? :S I ask this because they are suggestions rather than complaints.

[Bomb-Head]

This should go in the complaints forum :rolleyes: :P

Free speech died out years ago on Habbox Forum. The management go into hiding while moderators and super moderators get the abuse. This doesn't feel like a community anymore, it's an orchestra of confusing rules and terrible management skills which, instead of sounding like Lux Aeterna by Clint Mansell, it sounds like aload of children whacking aload of cheap instruments. There needs to be something done...
That's one of the most sensible posts I've heard in a long time.

I think it's a bad idea. I too feel like it's just a way of shutting members up and, as Lycan said, to stop members grouping together on a certain subject.

A poll to get our suggestions on the idea before implementing it would have been nice :rolleyes:

[Catzsy]

That's one of the most sensible posts I've heard in a long time.

I think it's a bad idea. I too feel like it's just a way of shutting members up and, as Lycan said, to stop members grouping together on a certain subject.

A poll to get our suggestions on the idea before implementing it would have been nice :rolleyes:

Very valid point, David :D

[sierk]

I think the only reason they won't the blimming complaints forum is so they don't have to go through large threads and read it all before coming to a conclusion.

So in short - they can hear the first persons argument and come to a decision and response based upon that.

However, that isn't the way Habbox should work and isn't the way it has worked. Some of the greatest developments on Habbox in the previous years have came through user discussion and input from several members - stemming off from one original idea. For instance, someone may post a good original idea but just not have constructed it very well - which other users could then add to to help improve the idea further and make it totally complete.

Likewise, if someone posts an idea then the management can see whether users are supporting it or rejecting it as they could maybe read a complain and act upon it even though the rest of the forum disagrees.

In conclusion, it is ultimately taking away one of our main and most important rights that we have witheld from the beginning of being Habbox members.

Ideas can still be posted in this forum, so that shouldn't be a problem. It's only the specific complaints, usually about a staff member, that don't require a discussion or comment by everybody else.

[Catzsy]

Ideas can still be posted in this forum, so that shouldn't be a problem. It's only the specific complaints, usually about a staff member, that don't require a discussion or comment by everybody else.

Thank you very much for clarifying this and in view of this there is no more need for the thread and I can close it :)