Political Leaders

[-:Undertaker:-]

Which Political people do you admire/think did a lot, you don't have to admire them for a good reason you can admire them for how they ran their countrys or anything like that. You can have Gandi/Stalin/whoever you want.

So post pictures of the people who you admire/think did some good and explain why :) I think it will be interesting to see what peope post.

[Virgin Mary]

Hitler because he tricked an entire nation. Perhaps that's down to the stupidity and gullibility of the nation but whatever.

[-:Undertaker:-]

http://www.insideout.org/documentaries/ahmad/images/saddam50.jpg
- Saddam Hussein
~ Saddam did to Iraq what many other Arab leaders failed to do, secure security yet give your people western style freedoms. One of Saddams greatest achivements was to put Iraqs literacy levels from around 20% of the population being able to read and he made it 70% by opening schools and improving life for the people of Iraq.

http://panther3.last.fm/storable/image/82217/small.jpg
- George W Bush
~ I certainly don't admire this guy but it's amazing how quickly and stupidly he made America one of the most hated nations in the world by invading Iraq. It is also amazing how easily he has gotton away with the murder of thousands in Iraq for Oil.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/worldservice/people/features/wiwp/images/thatch_col.gif
- Margaret Thatcher
I admire Maggie because of two main things she did, number one being able to turn Britain around economically by shutting down the failing mines which were being kept open by the union controlled Labour governments. Number two is the fact she defeated the unions so they didn't control the government anymore.

http://www.exeter.gov.uk/media/imagedepartmental/t/b/Tony_Blair_3_thumbnail.jpg
- Tony Blair
Tony Blair I certainly don't admire, but I think he's an important figure because of the following reasons. He stood so close to a President who invaded a country for oil, he also ignored the biggest protests the world has ever seen. Bakc at home Blair lied just about everything he did, he dumbed down Education, made the Union of England, Scotland, Wales and Northen Ireland an unfair one, wasted taxpayers money in everyway possible and also made us closer and closer to the EU.

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/27/buddyicons/[email protected]
- Donald Rumsfeld
Donald Rumesfeld is the most arrogant person I have ever came across in life, although I have never met him I get angry when I see him lying about Iraq and the way he treated staff who didn't agree with the Iraq war was horrible, he sacked them. He also to people who don't know, has ownership of many oil companies.

http://www.foxnews.com/images/261307/2_41_abbas_mahmoud_121606.jpg
- President Abbas of Palestine
This guy has held together a country in a very nasty place of the world, he is a true supporter of freedom and for that I admire him.

http://www.mapreport.com/images/ph/mpmuaharrafsmall.jpg
- President Musharraf of Pakistan
Musharraf just like Abbas holds together a country in a very difficut part of the world, he has held Pakistan from the brink of civil war and supports freedom just like Abbas and Saddam.

http://www.conversationamongtheruins.co.uk/Assets/imagecranfieldhoward.jpg
- Michael Howard
In 2005 this man got more votes than the Labour Party and nearly became Prime Minister if it wasn't for our corrupt and wrong voting system. England mainly voted for this man and he won most of Englands seats, so he is the choosen man of England, not Tony Blair. I admire Howard because of his good beliefs which are very similar to mine such as; border control, stand up to the EU and be more tough on criminals.


These are the main people I guess who I think have had a big impact on me and the world. Also good point about Hitler and how he managed to fool millions of people.

[Frodo13.]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/33/JohannesPaulII.jpg (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:JohannesPaulII.jpg)

Not exactly a political leader, but meh! Pope John Paul I think was a amazing man. Despite being the Head of the Catholic Church, he respected other people religions and belives in equality between everyone. He was the first Pope to pray in a mosque, something that was deemed unacceptable to Catholics and other Christian churches worldwide at the time. He had a large political pressence that was felt between many world leaders.

Oh, and Undertaker on the topic of Micheal Howard just thought Id post this video link. A politician that can't even answer a question...how professional :)

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=dorWqzEijPw

[-:Undertaker:-]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/33/JohannesPaulII.jpg (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:JohannesPaulII.jpg)




Not exactly a political leader, but meh! Pope John Paul I think was a amazing man. Despite being the Head of the Catholic Church, he respected other people religions and belives in equality between everyone. He was the first Pope to pray in a mosque, something that was deemed unacceptable to Catholics and other Christian churches worldwide at the time. He had a large political pressence that was felt between many world leaders.


Oh, and Undertaker on the topic of Micheal Howard just thought Id post this video link. A politician that can't even answer a question...how professional :)



http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=dorWqzEijPw



The News Night thing, ive seen it :)

However i'd trust Howard over Gordon Brown anyday who said 'British jobs for British people' yet that is a lie because it's illegal to advertise for only British people thanks to Labour Political Correctness.

Oh look what I found, lying through his teeth to us all.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lSieUhqIR6k

[Frodo13.]

The News Night thing, ive seen it :)

However i'd trust Howard over Gordon Brown anyday who said 'British jobs for British people' yet that is a lie because it's illegal to advertise for only British people thanks to Labour Political Correctness.

Techniqly (sp?) all jobs go to British people. All the people who come from foreign backgrounds get a British citizenship anyway :)

Edit: To your vid, why did you bring Blair into it? You specifically mentioned Brown.

[-:Undertaker:-]

Techniqly (sp?) all jobs go to British people. All the people who come from foreign backgrounds get a British citizenship anyway :)

That is another one of Labours stupid policies, if I come from Africa then get a Ciztenship card then am I English? no. Also I mentioned Blair as he is just as bad as Brown and they've been running the country into the ground for the past 10 years :)

[Frodo13.]

That is another one of Labours stupid policies, if I come from Africa then get a Ciztenship card then am I English? no. Also I mentioned Blair as he is just as bad as Brown and they've been running the country into the ground for the past 10 years :)

I could say the same for Thatcher. She was probably the most hated women in Britain. Her government raised interest rates to 15% some of the highest seen in modern history, leaving homeowners unable to pay their mortages. The women was outed by her own party! In my opinion, she was a god damm awful PM by the late 90s. With Thatcher, you compleatly contradict yourself. Thatcher was a strong believer of remaining in the EU, something you are totally against I belive?

Unfortunatly for Blair, he is forever going to be rememberd for the Iraq War, one moment of weakness. I think with history, people will remember things such as the Good Friday Agreement.

And the citizenship things happens in almost every country in the world, and would continue with a Conservative government. Even though they may belive in a cut-down on immigration, they wouldn't deport everyone...

[-:Undertaker:-]

I could say the same for Thatcher. She was probably the most hated women in Britain. Her government raised interest rates to 15% some of the highest seen in modern history, leaving homeowners unable to pay their mortages. The women was outed by her own party! In my opinion, she was a god damm awful PM by the late 90s. With Thatcher, you compleatly contradict yourself. Thatcher was a strong believer of remaining in the EU, something you are totally against I belive?

Unfortunatly for Blair, he is forever going to be rememberd for the Iraq War, one moment of weakness. I think with history, people will remember things such as the Good Friday Agreement.

Thacther you are wrong about, yes she was for the EU yet she stood up, personally I wouldn't be as Anti-EU if someone had a backbone and stood up to it. I also think Interest Rates are not the governments responsibilty they are the banks are they not? She had to close the mines with China and other countrys selling cheaper. A few months ago I was beginning to think she was a crap PM until I saw this great program called something like the truth about maggie.

Tony Blair was terrible, he never did a good thing except support Nuclear Power, Ireland was going to end and it just ended under his leadership. It still doesn't stop him destroying the country and killing thousands of people. History will remember Blair for the Invasion.

I also don't believe in deporting everyone, I believe we should deport the criminals and sponges in this country. David Cameron is a moron anyway so at the moment i'm not 'New conservative'

[Mandez]

yeah ok fredo, mr. left wing.
lets deport the criminals to australia make it a prison again. :D

[Frodo13.]

yeah ok fredo, mr. left wing.
thatcher closed the mines omg.

Center-Left actually :)

[Mandez]

exscuse me for not caring. :rolleyes:

[Virgin Mary]

Politicians just trick everyone. That's their job. Where there's discontent among the people they'll give you an enemy so you feel united, then you just get your *** kicked by every other country.

[Frodo13.]

I also think Interest Rates are not the governments responsibilty they are the banks are they not?


Brown handed the interest rates to the Bank of England in 1997. Up untill then, they were the governments responsibility.

[:Liam]

I agree with most that have been said like margret thatcher ect.
but if hitlar wasnt a dictator he would been a great leader.
I think for leaders of the future my prediction for the best will be:
http://www.jeremyinc.com/images/hilary_clinton_toilet_paper_2.JPG
She is gonna be amazing I think. Hilary Clinton for president!

[RedStratocas]

I agree with most that have been said like margret thatcher ect.
but if hitlar wasnt a dictator he would been a great leader.
I think for leaders of the future my prediction for the best will be:
http://www.jeremyinc.com/images/hilary_clinton_toilet_paper_2.JPG
She is gonna be amazing I think. Hilary Clinton for president!

ew tbh. shes so off on so many things.

bill clinton was great though. people say "oh, but he lied!" which is why he was impeached. but all he did was get some presidential pleasure. look at our president now -- he lied to us to go to war and get thousands of people killed, yet for some reason we're still talking about how it was the right thing to do to impeach clinton after he had an affair.

i think all of us americans deserve a slap in the face for that one.

[FlyingJesus]

I'm not gonna get into the Blair vs Thatcher thing that Dan's set up because he gets all defensive about it, so I'm gonna go on about the American thing instead for a bit.

As our Red friend above said, Clinton was an excellent President. He was extremely charismatic and did a lot of things to improve the US considerably whilst not really doing any harm. I don't believe that personal matters should be used against politicians, as getting a quick suck from your secretary isn't really going to affect your decision making skills in office.
My stance is Bush is one of not really caring. Yeah he's done a lot wrong and is seen as a complete buffoon, but there must have been reasons that he was elected, and I'm sure he must have done at least some good, even if it's outweighed by the bad.

Hell on that note I am gonna go into Blairite politics after all. Blair followed Bush into Iraq and that's caused a lot of problems, but he's said time and time again that he's sorry but he did believe it to be the right thing to do at the time. I know politicians lie and cover stuff up, but when he comes out with his hands up and accepts responsibility like that, I can't help but believe that he's telling the truth on that, and that (however bad a mistake it was) it was a mistake. He otherwise did a lot of good for the country. I don't like socialist ideals really, but Blair did pick up the NHS from being an absolute crapbag to being just a pretty big bag of crap. You can quote figures of how many jobs were lost under his government, but he also created hundreds of thousands. I'm a pessimistic person myself, but I really think people need to learn to look past just bad stuff when talking about someone they don't like and appreciate the facts that they have done good stuff too.


I say stuff too much.

[Virgin Mary]

I think the BNP will end up leading Britain sooner or later, although as long as the Queen isn't removed from power (please, if she does nothing all day then why does she concern you so much?) we don't really have much to fear from our governments. Give it about another decade or so.
Americans politics never bother me, I don't see why Clinton is seen as so bad though. Does it really matter if they're not some self-righteous hick?

[RedStratocas]

I don't believe that personal matters should be used against politicians, as getting a quick suck from your secretary isn't really going to affect your decision making skills in office.

if anything, it probably helps.

and bush really didn't get elected the first time, haha. the second was a combination of things.

[FlyingJesus]

I think the BNP will end up leading Britain sooner or later,

I agree, simply because the more lax you get on liberty and multiculturalism, the closer you get to an extreme nationalist takeover such as Hitler's rise to power in Germany and to a lesser extent Mussolini in Italy.


although as long as the Queen isn't removed from power (please, if she does nothing all day then why does she concern you so much?)

I'm a pretty big supporter of the royal family. I know at the moment the Queen's only real role is to "rubber stamp" policies and laws etc, but as a figurehead and icon of what's left of our culture I think they're all important to Britain. The argument that they do nothing is, as you suggest, stupid.

[Susie Dent]

Waffles on about something pretending I know everything however unfortunately you don't understand and also post some waffle.

[MrGazet]

urm I dun think I hav any fav;s tbh :(

Edited by Wizzdom (Forum Moderator) - Please do not pointless post

[Frodo13.]

but if hitlar wasnt a dictator he would been a great leader.


I agree. If he wasn't responsible for the murder of millions, he would of been a good leader. He got his country out of a Great Depression and turned it into a respectable state. Also created thousands of jobs.

[Virgin Mary]

I never see Hitler as a dictator, just a good leader with a skewed outlook. If he wasn't evil he'd probably be the greatest politician of all time.

[Mandez]

Yeah.... if hiller hadnt been such a sicko and murdered
5 million minority groups,
6 million jews,
make the country think they were better then everyone else,
try and take over the world,

im sure he would of been a great politician.

[-:Undertaker:-]

I'm not gonna get into the Blair vs Thatcher thing that Dan's set up because he gets all defensive about it, so I'm gonna go on about the American thing instead for a bit.

As our Red friend above said, Clinton was an excellent President. He was extremely charismatic and did a lot of things to improve the US considerably whilst not really doing any harm. I don't believe that personal matters should be used against politicians, as getting a quick suck from your secretary isn't really going to affect your decision making skills in office.
My stance is Bush is one of not really caring. Yeah he's done a lot wrong and is seen as a complete buffoon, but there must have been reasons that he was elected, and I'm sure he must have done at least some good, even if it's outweighed by the bad.

Hell on that note I am gonna go into Blairite politics after all. Blair followed Bush into Iraq and that's caused a lot of problems, but he's said time and time again that he's sorry but he did believe it to be the right thing to do at the time. I know politicians lie and cover stuff up, but when he comes out with his hands up and accepts responsibility like that, I can't help but believe that he's telling the truth on that, and that (however bad a mistake it was) it was a mistake. He otherwise did a lot of good for the country. I don't like socialist ideals really, but Blair did pick up the NHS from being an absolute crapbag to being just a pretty big bag of crap. You can quote figures of how many jobs were lost under his government, but he also created hundreds of thousands. I'm a pessimistic person myself, but I really think people need to learn to look past just bad stuff when talking about someone they don't like and appreciate the facts that they have done good stuff too.


I say stuff too much.

Tony Blair has always said that going into Iraq was the right thing, I will never accept an apology from Blair and even if I did he would have to the the word itself; sorry - He never has though.


I think the BNP will end up leading Britain sooner or later, although as long as the Queen isn't removed from power (please, if she does nothing all day then why does she concern you so much?) we don't really have much to fear from our governments. Give it about another decade or so.
Americans politics never bother me, I don't see why Clinton is seen as so bad though. Does it really matter if they're not some self-righteous hick?

I agree and it's going to happen either like this; EU turns into a Soviet Union and eventually breaks up, England has a revolution and a nationalist party like the BNP will get in. The other way is just keep going like it is now, if the Conservatives don't return to their grass roots then the BNP/UKIP will slowly start to take over, remember that the only reason we, England have a government we didn't choose is because we are tied with Scotland which is were Labour get their seats from, if Scotland do break up from the unfair Union then Labour will be crippled and will become something like the Liberal Democrats. Personally I can't wait for something like this to happen to England, finally we can look after our own people then, free from the EU red tape and free from the Scottish who basically rob us.

In response to the Thacther post, I'm no genius at Economics btu I do no that if it hadn't of been for Maggie then our Economey wouldn't be what it is today. Labour may claim to making the economy healthy but it wasn't them, it was World Growth over the past ten years and thanks to Maggie starting us off again.

[FlyingJesus]

Most of Scotland are actually supporters of either Liberal Democrats or Scottish National Party.

[-:Undertaker:-]

Most of Scotland are actually supporters of either Liberal Democrats or Scottish National Party.

Results of General Election 2005

As you can see without Labours Scottish seats they wouldn't be in power and seeing as Labour and the Liberal Democrats are both Left wing the seats probably do swing a lot. I also have to add I am ashamed Liverpool is red :P

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/8d/2005UKElectionMap.svg/421px-2005UKElectionMap.svg.png (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8d/2005UKElectionMap.svg)

[FlyingJesus]

I fail at knowing where the borders are, so I'll take your word for it. Also, of course Liverpool is a Labour area, think about the history of its employment

[-:Undertaker:-]

Liverpool has had low employment because Manchester was the city which companies invested in not Liverpool, slowly right now Liverpool is getting better but only because of the grants we've had and with tourism companies being interested in our city.

[Frodo13.]

Yeah.... if hiller hadnt been such a sicko and murdered
5 million minority groups,
6 million jews,
make the country think they were better then everyone else,
try and take over the world,

im sure he would of been a great politician.

Is that sarcasm?

[FlyingJesus]

Nah what I meant was that it's been a factory area mostly, always been mostly working class people, hence the Labour vote.

[Frodo13.]

Undertaker, why do the Torys need to go back to their old political beliefs when under New Conservative, they've been most likely to win an election since 97.

I must admit, even though I support Labour I prefer the New Tory ideas then the old ones.

[FlyingJesus]

New Conservative isn't particularly conservative (as in, with a little c and as a set of ideals), it's moved more to the left.

[Frodo13.]

Yeah, its deffo gone to the left abit, but I think old Conservative was a little bit past it. Lets not forget, Labour got voted in because they were all about modernising Britain, so moderisation must be what the British people want.

[-:Undertaker:-]

Undertaker, why do the Torys need to go back to their old political beliefs when under New Conservative, they've been most likely to win an election since 97.

I must admit, even though I support Labour I prefer the New Tory ideas then the old ones.

Howard actually got more votes which means he was more wanted by the people of this country than Blair but thanks to our wrong voting system he didn't get government.


Yeah, its deffo gone to the left abit, but I think old Conservative was a little bit past it. Lets not forget, Labour got voted in because they were all about modernising Britain, so moderisation must be what the British people want.

Old conservatism is what this country needs, we don't need red tape and EU crap. Labour said they were for modernising Britain and they said a lot of other things too yet we were lied to.

[FlyingJesus]

Aye at the time it was wanted, also John Major was useless so people just wanted to be rid of him. However, recently I think most people have more conservative views, especially on immigration and the EU.

[Frodo13.]

Howard actually got more votes which means he was more wanted by the people of this country than Blair but thanks to our wrong voting system he didn't get government.


Yes, he was wanted more then Blair in ENGLAND, but as Im sure your aware, our Government applies for the whole of the UK, so Labour was rightly voted back in. Its just the same as saying Blair was more wanted then Howard in Scotland...it has no significance. Oh, and we dont vote for our PM, we vote for a party...

[Virgin Mary]

Yeah, its deffo gone to the left abit, but I think old Conservative was a little bit past it. Lets not forget, Labour got voted in because they were all about modernising Britain, so moderisation must be what the British people want.
Modernisation in political terms means giving up any identity and/or power as a nation.

[-:Undertaker:-]

Aye at the time it was wanted, also John Major was useless so people just wanted to be rid of him. However, recently I think most people have more conservative views, especially on immigration and the EU.

I think John Major was very 'useless' to put it simple, I agree and that's why I think a revolution will come to our country if things carry on the way they are. People are sick of the EU control already and are sick of Labour letting the world flood into our country.


Yes, he was wanted more then Blair in ENGLAND, but as Im sure your aware, our Government applies for the whole of the UK, so Labour was rightly voted back in. Its just the same as saying Blair was more wanted then Howard in Scotland...it has no significance. Oh, and we dont vote for our PM, we vote for a party...

I am English and stand for English beliefs, it is stupid that the scottish get their own parliament and English MP's don't get a say in that, yet England doesn't get a Parliament and the Scottish can vote on OUR issues. So I don't see Labour as the true government at all, it got into power based on a system of unfairness to the English people whom are the majority of the Kingdom. I know we vote for partys, no need to tell me and as far as i'm aware I didn't bring up that?


Modernisation in political terms means giving up any identity and/or power as a nation.

That puts Labour into a simple few words, +rep

[Mandez]

vote quimby.