Too much religious beliefs?

[Nemo]

I just saw that a jehovas witness woman had 2 twins and needed a blood transfusion, but because they aren't allowed one, she refused it and even after the doctors begging her, she still wouldn't and is now dead.
I just find it mental that people can take it SO far, now the twins aren't going to grow up with a mum.

Moved by mat64 (Forum Moderator) from Discuss Anything: Please post in the correct section next time, thanks.

[J4M3S]

Silly cow.
I hate religion :@

[dirrty]

well shes just really religious. its her choice to be that religious, so anyone cant really do anything besides herself, regardless of the consequences.

[Nemo]

i know i just find it bad :[

[Azul]

I hate religion, I really do. To me it's absolutely pointless, but you know I wasn't bought up with religous beliefs so I don't think i'll ever understand.

And to the jehovas witness woman she deserves to die, for being so idiotic and selfish. What about her two kids, and husband? Rather die than take blood. The funny thing is I'm sure she wasn't 100% sure her god even exsists.

[Nixt]

The media, or whatever source you got it from, will have portrayed her as a cold woman who gave no second thought to allowing herself to die and leaving her children to grow up without a mother. When you think about it though, she almost certainly did. People who have been brainwashed by religion such as the Jehovah's Witnesses no nothing different and fear the alternative to allowing themselves to die; i.e. Hell. The prospect for them is incredibly scary, an eternity in a place of suffering, or death in a life that will end eventually anyway? I agree it's stupid, but people like her are placed in an impossible position - I can almost guarantee she wasn't being selfish, but she was more scared than most people on this Forum have ever been.

[Grimmauld]

well shes just really religious. its her choice to be that religious, so anyone cant really do anything besides herself, regardless of the consequences.
shame the people she loves and the people who love her have to dealt with her consequences :(

[Virgin Mary]

I dunno anything about Jehovah's witnesses, just another religious deviation like Protestants and Mormons. As far as I'm aware, the prolongation of life should be encouraged in Christianity. I guess one has to respect her beliefs though.

[spot.]

Removed

Edited by Wizzdom (Forum Moderator) - Please do not post racist remarks

[5,5]

She died for what she believed in, can't fault her for that. I would'nt do it but hse did what she thought was right.

[MrGazet]

well yer its insane but its her own choice.i guess we hav to respect her beliefs :)

[RedStratocas]

She died for what she believed in, can't fault her for that. I would'nt do it but hse did what she thought was right.

yeah, but you can interpret other things like that. people kill for what they believe in. i think you can fault people for what they believe in.

[Nemo]

I respect her beliefs but when i think about the twins growing up without a mum, i find those beliefs to be stupid. It's rude but imo its true.

[FlyingJesus]

I'd respect her... at least she actually followed what she believed in, rather than picking and choosing to make things easier for herself. There isn't much that annoys me more than people who say they're religious yet don't follow half of the rules (ie: most people who claim to be religious) just because it doesn't suit them.

[joshuar]

I really really dislike all religions, so I personally think it is stupid to die for a religion.

It's hard to see if this is morally right or not, because while saying "It's good she had something to believe in", that thing could be death upon many people.

I personally think changing how you live is too far for any religion. But we all have different ideas on how too live.

[FlyingJesus]

I really really dislike all religions, so I personally think it is stupid to die for a religion.

It's hard to see if this is morally right or not, because while saying "It's good she had something to believe in", that thing could be death upon many people.

I personally think changing how you live is too far for any religion. But we all have different ideas on how too live.

People who follow religions should follow them to the word of whatever their sacred texts are. If you think about it, in this case she believed in the Judeo-Christian God and in His son, Jesus. Therefore, she believed that the stories of the Bible are true, and believes that God will reward the faithful and punish the unfaithful. Now, if you're a true believer (as in, not someone who just says it and maybe goes to church or something) then you will fear that punishment and love that reward, and so follow the word of God fully and without alteration. That is the sort of religious person I respect, because it's not the easy route and it shows true faith.

I'm not religious myself because I know that I don't believe, and I don't pretend to. I don't want to be the sort of person who says they believe in something and then shows no respect to it.

[Jazza]

It was a very stupid thing she did, basically suicide which is a mortal sin. If she was anything other than a Jehovah's witness she'd be in Hell.

[joshuar]

People who follow religions should follow them to the word of whatever their sacred texts are. If you think about it, in this case she believed in the Judeo-Christian God and in His son, Jesus. Therefore, she believed that the stories of the Bible are true, and believes that God will reward the faithful and punish the unfaithful. Now, if you're a true believer (as in, not someone who just says it and maybe goes to church or something) then you will fear that punishment and love that reward, and so follow the word of God fully and without alteration. That is the sort of religious person I respect, because it's not the easy route and it shows true faith.

I'm not religious myself because I know that I don't believe, and I don't pretend to. I don't want to be the sort of person who says they believe in something and then shows no respect to it.

I can agree that doing that shows you will go to extreme measures to follow your religion, and I suppose I do show a certain respect for that.

I dislike religion for many many reasons, however, I am not the sort of person to go "Your a bad person because your religious". But I do agree with you also that it is wrong to say your religious but show no respect for your religion.

So many in's and out's to religion.

[Mandez]

religion is the root of all evil.

[-:Undertaker:-]

She died for what she believed in, can't fault her for that. I would'nt do it but hse did what she thought was right.

Leaving two children without a mother - that isn't right. I think of religion as a guideline, not something that should be followed like this example. Religion is a good guideline for life, look at Christianity - without it the modern world wouldn't exist and we'd still be killing eachother.

[Mandez]

Leaving two children without a mother - that isn't right. I think of religion as a guideline, not something that should be followed like this example. Religion is a good guideline for life, look at Christianity - without it the modern world wouldn't exist and we'd still be killing eachother.

we still are killing eachother because of it.

[Virgin Mary]

NO!!!!!! STOP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! PLEASE

Edited by mat64 (Forum Moderator): Please don't post pointlessly.

[lAdmire]

Some people just have strong beliefs, & wouldn't want to affect their beliefs or go against their beliefs. So, I would understand. If this was apart of my religion, I would have to have a talk with my family before making the decision to not do it.

[Mandez]

lol i think she should of just took it, why should a belief mean you have to give your life up, but ofcourse some people dont mind.

[Frodo13.]

She died for what she believed in - we can't fault her for that. If her children are now brought up under similar beliefs, they will probably think what their mother did was right and not be bitter about it.

I think everyone has every right to belive in whatever they want - and I dont just mean in Religion. To the people who say shes a bad women for what she did, and she was wrong...who are we to judge? It is highly unlikely any of us on this forum will ever be in the same situation, so we can't possibly comment on her motiavtion for what she did, apart from it being her belief.

[Nemo]

She died for what she believed in - we can't fault her for that. If her children are now brought up under similar beliefs, they will probably think what their mother did was right and not be bitter about it.

I think everyone has every right to belive in whatever they want - and I dont just mean in Religion. To the people who say shes a bad women for what she did, and she was wrong...who are we to judge? It is highly unlikely any of us on this forum will ever be in the same situation, so we can't possibly comment on her motiavtion for what she did, apart from it being her belief.A suicide bomber dies for what they believe in, you can fault that.

[FlyingJesus]

A suicide bomber dies for what they believe in, you can fault that.

Whilst I'm not a fan of suicide bombings, I acknowledge that it's simply a difference in moral beliefs. Therefore you can only fault it based on your own ethical structure; what they're doing is in fact very noble in their own eyes and culture.

[Nemo]

Whilst I'm not a fan of suicide bombings, I acknowledge that it's simply a difference in moral beliefs. Therefore you can only fault it based on your own ethical structure; what they're doing is in fact very noble in their own eyes and culture.
Yer to them, but to us it isn't. Thats what im getting at smarty =]

[Frodo13.]

A suicide bomber dies for what they believe in, you can fault that.

I think there is a diffrence between sacrafising your own life and sacrafising the lives of thousands.

[Nemo]

I think there is a diffrence between sacrafising your own life and sacrafising the lives of thousands.
Its the same principal as what you said, when does there become that difference?

[Frodo13.]

Its the same principal as what you said, when does there become that difference?

When you commit murder.

[Nemo]

When you commit murder.She murdered herself in a way, she let herself die when she could of survived and made her twins grow up without a mum.

[whoooosh]

how old were the twins ??

[Nemo]

how old were the twins ??Just born, it was when she gave birth she lost a lot of blood.

[dirrty]

i dunno if this has been already said..

but if you think that woman made the wrong decision, what about soldiers who go out to war, knowing the consequences and probably having families aswell. they are fighting for their country, and she was fighting for her religion.

[Nemo]

i dunno if this has been already said..

but if you think that woman made the wrong decision, what about soldiers who go out to war, knowing the consequences and probably having families aswell. they are fighting for their country, and she was fighting for her religion.
It was an unnessecary fight though, whats the point in it. Nothing, whats so wrong with having a blood transfusion? It's someone elses blood, ok fair enough with that but whats the point in leaving the twins!

Thats what i find so annoying about this is that the twins won't have a mum!

[Frodo13.]

She murdered herself in a way, she let herself die when she could of survived and made her twins grow up without a mum.


Nooo, she commited suicide. Look up the definition of words before you use them :)

[Mandez]

that muslim book the koran or w'e its spelt doesnt even tell them to kill themselves and they'll go to heaven,

where the hell do they get the idea that if they kill themselves allah will reward them or send them to heaven or w'e.

[Nemo]

Nooo, she commited suicide. Look up the definition of words before you use them :)
I said in a way, i didn't mean she actually murdered herself, because that is suicide. Also suicide is when you kill yourself isn't it? She never killed herself, she just decided that she didn't want to live (because she'd have to have a blood transfusion).

[Mandez]

omg why would god want her to die rather than take blood and live,
its f'ed up.

[Frodo13.]

that muslim book the koran or w'e its spelt doesnt even tell them to kill themselves and they'll go to heaven,

where the hell do they get the idea that if they kill themselves allah will reward them or send them to heaven or w'e.

I belive Bin Laden instructed that all Muslims should kill all Americans and anyone associated with them many years ago.

[Nemo]

that muslim book the koran or w'e its spelt doesnt even tell them to kill themselves and they'll go to heaven,

where the hell do they get the idea that if they kill themselves allah will reward them or send them to heaven or w'e.A few people who are just evil basically brainwash them.


omg why would god want her to die rather than take blood and live,
its f'ed up.
I know.

[Mandez]

argh its annoying how religion does all this crap.

[Nemo]

argh its annoying how religion does all this crap.
I know... which is why im an athiest, but religion is just mainly bad. The only good thing about it imo is just a lil bit of hope.

[FlyingJesus]

It was an unnessecary fight though, whats the point in it. Nothing, whats so wrong with having a blood transfusion? It's someone elses blood, ok fair enough with that but whats the point in leaving the twins!

Thats what i find so annoying about this is that the twins won't have a mum!

It's not unnecessary, the "point" is that she was following what she believed to be right.

@Mandez: God makes laws that aren't supposed to be challenged at all, hence why some people don't question them and do them as it says. His "reasons" aren't supposed to be understood by humans.

[Mandez]

argh why cant everyone just like f'ck religion and stop these wars,
or have one religion where everyone agrees and follows.
so then no one hates eachother.

[Nemo]

It's not unnecessary, the "point" is that she was following what she believed to be right.

@Mandez: God makes laws that aren't supposed to be challenged at all, hence why some people don't question them and do them as it says. His "reasons" aren't supposed to be understood by humans.
But imo her belief just went too far with something that shouldn't really be questioned when you have the choice to live or die.


Also at your second point, is there any proof that god actually exists?

[Mandez]

they should be questioned why cant people live and think for themselves, gods virutally just some hiller fascist who forces you to live like this or you go to hell!

[FlyingJesus]

No there's no proof, but there's no proof the other way either. That's the idea of faith - you don't need proof. As for God being a fascist, that's entirely possible, but if you truly believe in Him then you'd obviously want to follow the teachings so as to secure a place in heaven. Your argument seems to be that if God (or any god) is bad in some way then that alone is reason not to believe, so I ask this:

You probably believe that George Bush is a bad person, right? By your train of thought that should mean that you shouldn't believe in him, yet that would be stupid.

[Mandez]

yeah hes stupid, but you realistically hes the president you have to listen to him cause hes in charge.

[Nemo]

You probably believe that George Bush is a bad person, right? By your train of thought that should mean that you shouldn't believe in him, yet that would be stupid.[/quote]I don't believe in what he says and a lot of his views but i have to believe that he exists, how can you not?

[SHOKER]

is there any proof that god actually exists?
any proof God doesnt exsist? its a religion, a faith believe in what you think is right

[Nemo]

any proof God doesnt exsist? its a religion, a faith believe in what you think is right
No one has actually had proof they have seen him
Or heard him talk


Believing in him is like saying he doesn't exist yet you still think he is real.

[FlyingJesus]

No-one's had proof or spoken to Him? How about the authors of the Bible? The Prophets, damned and saved of the (usually) Old Testament?

[dirrty]

why do you feel you need to question gods existance, and try to enforce your non-beliefs on others so much. we get that you think that and at the end of the day, you either believe or you dont. as whatever you say wont change anyones opinion on god and religion as those who believe in him, believe him and wont question his existance.

its like your trying to prove that god doesnt exist, but if you were a true christian, you wouldnt question his existance or any teachings of the bible and religious people. so give it a rest yh, cause really, its all pointless.

[GommeInc]

No one has actually had proof they have seen him
Or heard him talk


Believing in him is like saying he doesn't exist yet you still think he is real.
Actually, existence isn't in God definition. He doesn't have to physically exist.

I personally don't believe in God, but I can see what angle believers are coming from. God exists through their belief, not by being some man in a beard.

[Nemo]

why do you feel you need to question gods existance, and try to enforce your non-beliefs on others so much. we get that you think that and at the end of the day, you either believe or you dont. as whatever you say wont change anyones opinion on god and religion as those who believe in him, believe him and wont question his existance.

its like your trying to prove that god doesnt exist, but if you were a true christian, you wouldnt question his existance or any teachings of the bible and religious people. so give it a rest yh, cause really, its all pointless.I'm not a true christian though? I never even was a christian. Also why does it JUST have to be christianity? Other religions believe in god (duh). Also im not forcing it on others, im just expressing my opinion.


Actually, existence isn't in God definition. He doesn't have to physically exist.

I personally don't believe in God, but I can see what angle believers are coming from. God exists through their belief, not by being some man in a beard.I understand that.

[dirrty]

i know your not a christian. i said IF you were. regardless of if your a christian or not. o sorry not for mentioning all the religions :rolleyes:. i just find it easier to use one religion as an example. if thats alright with you of course, and theres a difference between expressing your opinion(which i dont have a problem with) and virtually ******** a religion off. you were virtually saying that god doesnt exist, so why do people believe in him. you cant see him, so why believe in something you cant see blahblahblah.

i just dont see that as "expressing your opinion". more like you dont believe in god, so why should others >.<

[Nemo]

i know your not a christian. i said IF you were. regardless of if your a christian or not. o sorry not for mentioning all the religions :rolleyes:. i just find it easier to use one religion as an example. if thats alright with you of course, and theres a difference between expressing your opinion(which i dont have a problem with) and virtually ******** a religion off. you were virtually saying that god doesnt exist, so why do people believe in him. you cant see him, so why believe in something you cant see blahblahblah.

i just dont see that as "expressing your opinion". more like you dont believe in god, so why should others >.<
I just said is there any proof god exists? It may offend a lot of people but i'm just saying, is there any proof? It's like a debate. Also you didn't have to mention every religion, just say in a religion or w/e. Its fine using an exmaple and don't act like im acting all high and mighty, because i'm not.

[Pirrom]

Well thats just how far some people would go. You can't really call her for what she believes, even if it's different from your views and oppinions.

[WarezKid]

i know how you can meet god,


Cheat death

that the only way

[FlyingJesus]

As far as I'm aware, none of the earthly religions say anything about the proof of any gods' existence other than their own stories in sacred texts. Faith doesn't require proof.

Also just as an interesting note, I don't know if it's actually believed anywhere but technically in Judaism and Christianity there isn't just one deity - there are stories in the Old Testament (or Torah) of their God defeating other gods in trials of power, and also He is named "God of gods", which seems to denote that there are in fact other spiritual/divine beings, just not very good ones :P As I say, not sure of the validity of that or whether it's believed at all, just something I noticed when I read it a while back.

[GommeInc]

Ah I know what you mean. When I did philosophy of religion a few years ago we discussed this. If I remember correctly, it doesn't mean that they can create land or have any power, it just means people we believe are gods because of their huge contribution to our lives but we should not idolise them etc. That's the Christianity version of God vs. gods. Not sure about the Judaism version is, but they probably are different in a slight way.

[FlyingJesus]

Something like that, I know it certainly happens (a lot of people have idols and there are people with tremendous amount of mortal power) but also the Old Testament states about God challenging first the Egyptian magicians when Moses was escaping, which follows the sort of thing you're saying, and also there's some sort of standoff with "Baal", an ancient pagan god, which seems to be more of an actual deity or demon rather than mortal.

[SHOKER]

I'm not a true christian though? I never even was a christian. Also why does it JUST have to be christianity? Other religions believe in god (duh). Also im not forcing it on others, im just expressing my opinion.

I understand that.i dont know much about other religions but they believe in different Gods i thought?


No one has actually had proof they have seen him
Or heard him talk


Believing in him is like saying he doesn't exist yet you still think he is real.
At the end of the day its your belief but think about this:

how the hell is earth made "perfect" for living? its pathetic that people cant see how perfectly our habitat is

[GommeInc]

Something like that, I know it certainly happens (a lot of people have idols and there are people with tremendous amount of mortal power) but also the Old Testament states about God challenging first the Egyptian magicians when Moses was escaping, which follows the sort of thing you're saying, and also there's some sort of standoff with "Baal", an ancient pagan god, which seems to be more of an actual deity or demon rather than mortal.
Hmmmm, that's interesting. Because the modern day Christian has been taught that gods never existed and never will. Maybe it is one of those stories which contradicts another. Can you find a quote which describes him or which book it's from?

[Virgin Mary]

how the hell is earth made "perfect" for living?
By chance. I think a lot of people mistake the Christian/Islam/Jewish God when people talk about a god - as in an all powerful designer - because that's what they take it to mean.

[Mandez]

its weird the way religion is causing wars etc, cause everyone praying to the same fella really :S

[FlyingJesus]

Hmmmm, that's interesting. Because the modern day Christian has been taught that gods never existed and never will. Maybe it is one of those stories which contradicts another. Can you find a quote which describes him or which book it's from?

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=11&chapter=18
Mentions two gods other than God, but also shows them as false or inferior. I think the original text is better for this rather than the "new" versions which have been changed, but you can get the idea.


its weird the way religion is causing wars etc, cause everyone praying to the same fella really :S

Religion doesn't cause wars, it's just used as an excuse or scapegoat..

[Virgin Mary]

Religion doesn't really cause wars these days it's culture.