EU recieves even more power from the bent left wing British Government..

[-:Undertaker:-]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=501637&in_page_id=1770&in_poll_id=19948

They are all for it because the EU is basically a place when they are shamed, which they can go and get a well paid job.

So this means now the EU will have it's own identity just like the former USSR. I honestly believe it will end up as a dictatorship, oh sorry it already is.

The EU will keep reaping in power all the time until it drains us of every last drop. I want England to be governed by ENGLISH people on ENGLISH soil, not brussels.

http://img.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2007/08_01/ToryGPX0708_468x345.jpg

[FlyingJesus]

Is this not the treaty on which we were promised a referendum?

[-:Undertaker:-]

I think it is, either way Labour have suddenly (after the risk of being voted out) changed their minds.

[Frodo13.]

This isn't even the Treaty we were promised a vote on :rolleyes:

[-:Undertaker:-]

This isn't even the Treaty we were promised a vote on :rolleyes:

Whether it is or not it's still giving away powers which we vote our governments in for to make decisions. Also it would not matter whether this is the treaty or not, Labour have made it clear that they aren't holding a referendum.

[Ezzie.]

Although i'm very left wing I really do not like the idea of us giving so much of our power away to the EU... Good intentions aside they CAN and probably WILL place laws upon us without the consent of the nation...

[FlyingJesus]

Left wing has nothing to do with giving away power, especially when it isn't in the interests of the country. It wouldn't matter if Britain was naturally close to Europe, but the fact is Europe hates us and our needs are far different to most EU countries, so we won't be fairly represented.

[-:Undertaker:-]

Left wing has nothing to do with giving away power, especially when it isn't in the interests of the country. It wouldn't matter if Britain was naturally close to Europe, but the fact is Europe hates us and our needs are far different to most EU countries, so we won't be fairly represented.

It's in the idea of Left - Wingers to be closer to Europe, hence why the Labour and Liberal Democrat Parties support it. A lot of shamed Labour ministers find jobs in the EU such as Peter Mandelson.

[Ezzie.]

Left wing has nothing to do with giving away power, especially when it isn't in the interests of the country. It wouldn't matter if Britain was naturally close to Europe, but the fact is Europe hates us and our needs are far different to most EU countries, so we won't be fairly represented.

I know, but i just wanted to mention it before undertake does.. he's incredibly right wing so yano..

[jesus]

england = joke

its not even gonna be england any more srsly

[GommeInc]

Hmmmm, makes me think why we have different parties. They may aswell get rid of Labour, Conservatives, Tories etc, because they are seemingly less needed now "/

[Virgin Mary]

The problem with governments is they're too soft or too harsh. It's either socialist or nationalist. They never seem to have both interests at heart, and if they do then they turn out to be psychopathic dictators.

[Frodo13.]

Whether it is or not it's still giving away powers which we vote our governments in for to make decisions. Also it would not matter whether this is the treaty or not, Labour have made it clear that they aren't holding a referendum.

Its ammendements to the current constitution. It's just that bitter right-wingers have been telling you otherwise.

[Jordy]

I want England to be governed by ENGLISH people on ENGLISH soil, not brussels.I loved how you said you want England to be controlled by English people, we're currently controlled by a stupid Scottish man, however we're not allowed to control them? - It'll just get worse if we're continually being controlled by these foreigners, just look what a mess Gordon's already put us in!

[-:Undertaker:-]

Its ammendements to the current constitution. It's just that bitter right-wingers have been telling you otherwise.

It is more power to the EU, the right-wingers have it right, left-wongers have it wrong.


I loved how you said you want England to be controlled by English people, we're currently controlled by a stupid Scottish man, however we're not allowed to control them? - It'll just get worse if we're continually being controlled by these foreigners, just look what a mess Gordon's already put us in!

I'm English over British anyday and i'll never be a 'EU Citizen', did you know we're being controlled by a government our country, England, didn't want? The Conservatives won the vast majority in England so technically Michael Howard is our rightful PM.

[Browney]

But techinacly it is the PM of Britian, not just England. So saying Micheal Howard is our rightful PM is wrong. You can say that England wished for Micheal Howard to be PM, but Britian did not.

[Jordy]

It is more power to the EU, the right-wingers have it right, left-wongers have it wrong.



I'm English over British anyday and i'll never be a 'EU Citizen', did you know we're being controlled by a government our country, England, didn't want? The Conservatives won the vast majority in England so technically Michael Howard is our rightful PM.Yeah, it would be a shame to say good bye to all these 'British' traditions, but all this partial segregation is just really unfair on England. Why can't the Scottish just entirely leave the UK? It's got a parliament of it's own now, and I'm sure they'd be happier too. They claim how well their education and health system is, and I'm jealous of it, but it's funded with the English money! I also can't understand how they get to medal with our politics and our Education system and things, Scottish MPs shouldn't be allowed to vote on any matters but their own and the UKs. They all want a split and it would do us all a favour so why can't we just get on with it and be one country? Wales and Northern Ireland have their own parliament too... Traditions need to go...

[Pyroka]

Here's an equation a monkey could work out:

Government ÷ Politcal Incorrectness + EU Treaty - Referendum = Majorly ****** off citizens.

I thought that the government were there to protect the peoples country? Not to manipulate it, twist it and demoralise it in their own little way to earn more money for themselves! I was listening to the radio, and frankly the Scottish are taking big criticism for the English Governments errors. The thing is, it's a widespread thing. It's not just the national government, it's local governments who are voted in by the citizens of the region in question, that also twist their own words and put their earmuffs in, to not listen to others.

The political incorrectness of England is really just horrific right now, with the government helping out every single country but themselves. Gordon Brown will not survive the next year as Primeminster, so if you live in a Conservative constituency (or support the conservatives) then you have much reason to celebrate. Every single thing done by the current government is like a domino game. Everytime they make a decision, their chances fall.

I don't know what you mean by right/left wing but I know one thing for sure, these so-called "men & women of the country" in their black and white suits with their ties and aston martins and bentleys, are destroying this beautiful country piece-by-piece. I feel democracy has left the building under the reign of Gordon Brown and will do as long as he is in power.

My two cents... I've got alot more to say about the police issues, and councils but if that is asked, then I will say my most.

[-:Undertaker:-]

But techinacly it is the PM of Britian, not just England. So saying Micheal Howard is our rightful PM is wrong. You can say that England wished for Micheal Howard to be PM, but Britian did not.

Yes, Britain voted for Labour as a whole, but I am not British, I am English. The British Union was fair upto a point and that's when it turned into Scotland milk us, I don't consider my personal self part of a unfair system like that. Howard is Englands rightful Prime Minister.


Yeah, it would be a shame to say good bye to all these 'British' traditions, but all this partial segregation is just really unfair on England. Why can't the Scottish just entirely leave the UK? It's got a parliament of it's own now, and I'm sure they'd be happier too. They claim how well their education and health system is, and I'm jealous of it, but it's funded with the English money! I also can't understand how they get to medal with our politics and our Education system and things, Scottish MPs shouldn't be allowed to vote on any matters but their own and the UKs. They all want a split and it would do us all a favour so why can't we just get on with it and be one country? Wales and Northern Ireland have their own parliament too... Traditions need to go...

It's disgusting to be honest, it's time for Scotland to survive on their own and for England to fund itself. Imagine how much better off we would be without a War in Iraq, without the EU, without Scotland, we would have BILLIONS to build new roads, improve cities, build hospitals, build schools, it goes on and on and on.


Here's an equation a monkey could work out:

Government ÷ Politcal Incorrectness + EU Treaty - Referendum = Majorly ****** off citizens.

I thought that the government were there to protect the peoples country? Not to manipulate it, twist it and demoralise it in their own little way to earn more money for themselves! I was listening to the radio, and frankly the Scottish are taking big criticism for the English Governments errors. The thing is, it's a widespread thing. It's not just the national government, it's local governments who are voted in by the citizens of the region in question, that also twist their own words and put their earmuffs in, to not listen to others.

The political incorrectness of England is really just horrific right now, with the government helping out every single country but themselves. Gordon Brown will not survive the next year as Primeminster, so if you live in a Conservative constituency (or support the conservatives) then you have much reason to celebrate. Every single thing done by the current government is like a domino game. Everytime they make a decision, their chances fall.

I don't know what you mean by right/left wing but I know one thing for sure, these so-called "men & women of the country" in their black and white suits with their ties and aston martins and bentleys, are destroying this beautiful country piece-by-piece. I feel democracy has left the building under the reign of Gordon Brown and will do as long as he is in power.

My two cents... I've got alot more to say about the police issues, and councils but if that is asked, then I will say my most.

Left-Wing is basically communism, they traditionally believe in softer jail sentences, giving money to the poor (even if they are sponges) and taxing the hard working taxpayers just as is happening now. the left also is all for the EU and is normally against the Western USA and UK alliance. Left wingers also believe in a big Government.

Right-Wing is nationalism, they normally believe in harsher punishments, less tax, against Europe and normally pro western. Right wingers also believe in smaller local governments.

[Browney]

Yes, Britain voted for Labour as a whole, but I am not British, I am English. The British Union was fair upto a point and that's when it turned into Scotland milk us, I don't consider my personal self part of a unfair system like that. Howard is Englands rightful Prime Minister.


I personally think your in denial. Are you a British citizen or an immigrant? Because living in England, being an English citizen means you are a citizen of Great Britian. You cannot deny the fact you are British. Thats like me denying that I'm 15. It's cold hards facts, it is who I am. I accept it.

[-:Undertaker:-]

I personally think your in denial. Are you a British citizen or an immigrant? Because living in England, being an English citizen means you are a citizen of Great Britian. You cannot deny the fact you are British. Thats like me denying that I'm 15. It's cold hards facts, it is who I am. I accept it.

You fail to understand it.

I am English, not British. I reject the idea of a union which gives away my countrys money to another country. I am offically yes, but I don't consider myself British or European. I am English and proud.

[Browney]

You fail to understand it.

I am English, not British. I reject the idea of a union which gives away my countrys money to another country. I am offically yes, but I don't consider myself British or European. I am English and proud.

Ah. The way you said it made it seem like you were denying it. Well I suppose considering yourself British is a complete different issue. I got confused by the comment:

"I am not British"

Well fair enough, as I said, it's a matter of opinion, I can't fault that.

[FlyingJesus]

Left-Wing is basically communism, they traditionally believe in softer jail sentences, giving money to the poor (even if they are sponges) and taxing the hard working taxpayers just as is happening now. the left also is all for the EU and is normally against the Western USA and UK alliance. Left wingers also believe in a big Government.

Right-Wing is nationalism, they normally believe in harsher punishments, less tax, against Europe and normally pro western. Right wingers also believe in smaller local governments.


That's not true actually :P left wing is socialism (communism is a distortion of that, not an extreme of it) which is into heavily taxing people in order to give more benefits out, fund NHS and other "welfare state" ideas, and attempt to make people more materialistically equal. I don't agree with it, but that's the fact of what it is. You're right about socialism having a strong government, because it focuses on "positive freedom" - whereby stronger laws and powers are introduced in order to make it possible for people to do certain things. As for jail sentences, that's Labour as a party, not a left-wing view in itself.

Right wing by contrast is conservatism (rather than nationalism which again is a distortion), which fundamentally holds views that support "negative freedom" - that is, having a smaller government which doesn't interfere with the people so much (ie: privatisation of pretty much everything except armed forces and law, no taxes and a strong free market), and instead of giving the freedom to do, it gives freedom from being stopped doing as you will. Punishment again has nothing to do with it fundamentally.

You're confusing yourself Dan: you're mixing up ideologies with parties. Having conservative views with a small c is not the same as being a Conservative with a big C and the same for socialism/Labour.

[-:Undertaker:-]

Ideology is Politics, each party has it's own core values which it will normally stick to.

[FlyingJesus]

Ideologies are actually part of philosophy of politics rather than the running of it, and how a party operates is generally in that sphere yes, but not everything Labour do is socialist and not everything the Tories do is conservative. It's easy to confuse I guess but it's quite telling when you say that part of socialism is harsh punishments.

[Ezzie.]

The term english is silly anyway, we're all a bunch of immigrants apart from about 2% of the population.

[FlyingJesus]

Not that many even, maybe 2% are British but certainly not plain English (as in Anglo-Saxon)

[Virgin Mary]

All that will come of this is the BNP being voted into power, gassing immigrants and any non-whites, going to war with the EU and then losing.

[Jordy]

All that will come of this is the BNP being voted into power, gassing immigrants and any non-whites, going to war with the EU and then losing.I would genuinely support them if they had more decent idea's and actually stood a chance.

If the conservatives merged with the BNP and UKIP I'd be made ;)

[Ezzie.]

The bnp are scum.. sorry to insult anyone, but they're bordering on nazism, my mum actually voted for them last election which disgusted me ¬_¬ but meh. that's another topic.

[-:Undertaker:-]

Ideologies are actually part of philosophy of politics rather than the running of it, and how a party operates is generally in that sphere yes, but not everything Labour do is socialist and not everything the Tories do is conservative. It's easy to confuse I guess but it's quite telling when you say that part of socialism is harsh punishments.

I know they can change policies, what i'm saying is their core values are based on ideology.


The term english is silly anyway, we're all a bunch of immigrants apart from about 2% of the population.

However I am more English than a Black/Scottish person.


All that will come of this is the BNP being voted into power, gassing immigrants and any non-whites, going to war with the EU and then losing.

What a load of rubbish, BNP would actually sort this country out which is what all the other parties are failing to do.


I would genuinely support them if they had more decent idea's and actually stood a chance.

If the conservatives merged with the BNP and UKIP I'd be made ;)

I agree, and if they toppled that idiot David Cameron.


The bnp are scum.. sorry to insult anyone, but they're bordering on nazism, my mum actually voted for them last election which disgusted me ¬_¬ but meh. that's another topic.

If they are bordering on Nazism then that must be good, life was much better for normal Germans with Hitler in power. We know the BNP aren't anything like the madman Hitler though. They don't agree with Immigation - I fail to see how that is anything like gassing Jews?

[Jamesy]

I am going to disagree with you about life was better for normal germans, sure it was better than before hitler but they lived with no privacy and fear of the Gestapo.

Other than that once again you pwn :)

[-:Undertaker:-]

I am going to disagree with you about life was better for normal germans, sure it was better than before hitler but they lived with no privacy and fear of the Gestapo.

Other than that once again you pwn :)

Germany did get better under Hitler until the point of the War, yes they had no rights but they had security, money and food :)

Thanks, +REP

[FlyingJesus]

Technically that's socialism, which you say you don't like. Make your mind up Dan.

Also the BNP aren't inherently racist or anything like that, it's just that Nick Griffin isn't a very nice person and gives them a bad image. Same as how UKIP have some excellent policies but are spoilt by that fool Kilroy.

[Jordy]

Technically that's socialism, which you say you don't like. Make your mind up Dan.

Also the BNP aren't inherently racist or anything like that, it's just that Nick Griffin isn't a very nice person and gives them a bad image. Same as how UKIP have some excellent policies but are spoilt by that fool Kilroy.Grah Kilroy is my MEP, and when my Gran went to Brussels on a general visit, her MEP (She lives in a different constituency) showed her the Kilroy-Silk hadn't been to the European Parliament for years...

[FlyingJesus]

Yeah UKIP members try getting elected as MEPs just so they can boycott it to make a point lol. Good idea in theory I guess but it really just means we have less say over there.

[-:Undertaker:-]

Technically that's socialism, which you say you don't like. Make your mind up Dan.

Also the BNP aren't inherently racist or anything like that, it's just that Nick Griffin isn't a very nice person and gives them a bad image. Same as how UKIP have some excellent policies but are spoilt by that fool Kilroy.

Security comes before freedom, but since that doesn't apply to this country I am right wing in my beliefs. I have made up my mind, I am not neo-conservative really as I was outrightly against the Invasion of Iraq. Also Kilroy isn't leader of UKIP anymore.

[Minstrels]

It's a bit scary that were giving the EU all these rights to change our laws etc...

[-:Undertaker:-]

It's a bit scary that were giving the EU all these rights to change our laws etc...

I agree, we fought two world wars which cost millions of lives so we could have freedom and so would could govern ourselves, not Germany. Now we're signing away power!