Wi-Fi "Stealing" [Discussion]

[Mr.Sam]

Web site Ars Technical discusses the ethics of "stealing" a Wi-Fi connection, discussing whether or not piggybacking Wi-Fi is actually something that should be considered stealing based on several practical illustrations, arguing, for example, that:

If the WiFi waves come to you and can be accessed without hacking, there should be no question that such access is legal and morally OK. If your neighbor runs his sprinkler and accidentally waters your yard, do you owe him money?The above example is just the tip of the author's argument, and you should really read the article for a fuller examination, but I'm curious about a couple of things:

Do You Piggyback Wireless Internet?

Fact is, as the article discusses, some people intentionally run an open wireless access point because that's just the kind of friendly folk they are (in fact, some people advertise their open Wi-Fi hotspots (http://lifehacker.com/software/notag/advertise-your-open-wi+fi-hotspot-306435.php)). So I'd also like to know:

Do You Run an Open WAP?

if not why have you not protected your network?

http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20080103-the-ethics-of-stealing-a-wifi-connection.html

[Decapitated!]

nah, i'd never do it.

[Brody]

well i use my own wifi but if my wifi doesnt work then ill use sum1 elses if its available its there fault for not protecting it in my opinion

[Wootzeh]

No, because I don't need to.

[Aflux]

Mine is open, my next door neighbours' isn't.

[GommeInc]

Nope and I doubt I ever will, considering the nearest house to mine is about 200 yards away :rolleyes: People who use the excuse 'it's their fault' are just impolite and lack common courtesy, yes, part of it is their fault, but just because it is there doesn't mean you have to use it...

[WarezKid]

I use 2. one next doors when i use my own for downloading so it faster xD

[dannyisnotamazing]

My home one at my mums is unprotected, this is only because I have trouble connecting with my ipod touch to it.. but at my dads it is protected but there is a few nearby routers which are protected but 1/2 unprotected.

[mike475]

I would only use my next door neighbours (for a good conection).

[PaulMacC]

protected but I steal signals in hotels and busy places where I am for a while with my laptop x)

on my PC there's two available connections, mine or someone down the street thats locked

[mat64]

I did at one point but no I have my own so there's no need.

[yido]

use to use nextdoors only beacause kept connecting to theres but sorted now have around 3/4 down my street

[tdi]

I did at one point but no I have my own so there's no need.
as do i.

[Metric.]

how are they gunna know?

[GommeInc]

how are they gunna know?
Most routers have a control panel and the name of the PCs and devices connected to the device are listed. As far as I am aware, you can get people fined but sometimes they blame you for leaving it unprotected, which is a terrible excuse really

[Naruto!]

how are they gunna know?
when their internet slows up? when they exceed their download limit?
when they are questioned for downloading child pornography?

I don't use anyone elses and my own is locked. If you don't lock it then you're basically letting everyone share your connection.

[VPSwow]

Nah because it would annoy me if it was other way round.

[Purposeless2]

Yeah but leaving your wireless unprotected grants access to your pc to hackers

[Ashhizzle]

Yeah but leaving your wireless unprotected grants access to your pc to hackers
OH NOZ!

Dey r gna get my habbox password!

:S

yeah, mines un protected. So?

My mates accross the road use it, i dont care. i use theirs, my psp :)

[Xeros]

Onli if my goes down or to get passed Rapidshare :D

But myns alot faster

[PaulMacC]

Though it's their own fault, if someone offers you free internet which is basically free money would you not take it.

personally, I've never stolen a connection on this pc, though I have in a hotel which it was owned by the hotel itself and I dont think you need permission

[WarezKid]

using hotels or publics internet is okay lol

[Kodak]

I use my PocketPC to get internet access almost everywhere I go, if there is WIFI, and it doesn't seem suspicious, and it is unsecured, why not?

I need to get on the internet, and its your fault you are letting me.

To be honest, WI-FI is getting so popular, its going to be public everywhere soon :P

[Purposeless2]

OH NOZ!

Dey r gna get my habbox password!

:S

yeah, mines un protected. So?

My mates accross the road use it, i dont care. i use theirs, my psp :)

Havent you seen that bbc wireless hacking thingy on youtube?
Hackers can find out what websites you've been on, passwords to things you log on to etc etc and if you watch die hard 4.0 they can even tie a bomb to your house and send a virus through onto your computer so when you press a button your house explodes and you die :D (last one was ment to be a joke to anyone who thinks I'm an idiot for saying it)

[Invent]

Havent you seen that bbc wireless hacking thingy on youtube?
Hackers can find out what websites you've been on, passwords to things you log on to etc etc and if you watch die hard 4.0 they can even tie a bomb to your house and send a virus through onto your computer so when you press a button your house explodes and you die (last one was ment to be a joke to anyone who thinks I'm an idiot for saying it)

If you don't have any extra AV apart from crappy Windows Firewall then you deserve to get "hacked".

[womanizer]

i steal wifi on my iphone

[:Liam]

but its like saying oh if someone doesnt have an alarm on there house they deserve to get robbed?

[Metric.]

but its like saying oh if someone doesnt have an alarm on there house they deserve to get robbed?

not really, because you can access it without them knowing..

[WarezKid]

Havent you seen that bbc wireless hacking thingy on youtube?
Hackers can find out what websites you've been on, passwords to things you log on to etc etc and if you watch die hard 4.0 they can even tie a bomb to your house and send a virus through onto your computer so when you press a button your house explodes and you die :D (last one was ment to be a joke to anyone who thinks I'm an idiot for saying it)



probs alot of ****.


i can crack the code to access it, but that it, not grab your bank details ¬.¬!!

[Hitman]

I don't use wireless, but lets say I did. If my connection was open and free for people to use and people were 'piggybacking' off of it, then I'd be annoyed BUT it would be my fault for not putting any security up. If I then had security and somebody managed to hack it I'd be very annoyed and would find out who.

I think people should protect things, with security that doesn't take two minutes to set up. It really is peoples own fault if they don't.

Jake, Steve is correct you can get peoples bank details etc.

[joshuar]

I have my own WEP protected network (it was WPA but the nintendo DS can't use WPA). I also use other peoples networks should I be near them and I have no internet of my own. I think it is there own fault should they leave it unsecure.

When you are wirelessly connected you can also access the control panel and block their MAC addresses from connecting, so you can take over their router without being there. To hack bank account details you need to use hacking tools I believe, which then makes the situation illegal.

[Pat McGroin]

I'd probably use it if someone had 1 left open. Although I have my own which is connected, tis annoying when I get capped for downloading too much stuff.

[WarezKid]

I don't use wireless, but lets say I did. If my connection was open and free for people to use and people were 'piggybacking' off of it, then I'd be annoyed BUT it would be my fault for not putting any security up. If I then had security and somebody managed to hack it I'd be very annoyed and would find out who.

I think people should protect things, with security that doesn't take two minutes to set up. It really is peoples own fault if they don't.

Jake, Steve is correct you can get peoples bank details etc.


Ye but you got like

0.9 chance ¬.¬!

[Blue]

I have my own (secured) but, to be fair, if you don't secure your network, its abit like leaving your front door unlocked, people could get in if they wanted to

[Mentor]

I always mac address filter my own, and dont useually connect 2 some one elses unless i have permission or know em well enough 2 not need it "/

[Lubricant]

I think it's disgusting that people use someone elses wifi without consent.

[Archies]

rofl i use to steal da internetz when my internet kept cutting off :[
But now i get about 7 connections but there all protected! :(

[Swearwolf]

na i dont i have my own decent protected network

[N!ck]

I always mac address filter my own, and dont useually connect 2 some one elses unless i have permission or know em well enough 2 not need it "/

It so easy to get around that though.

And I believe that if it's unsecured then that's fine, and maybe i've been on secured ones before :rolleyes:.

[Frodo13.]

I used someone else's to get my PS3 online, but I've got my own now :)

[Purposeless2]

probs alot of ****.


i can crack the code to access it, but that it, not grab your bank details ¬.¬!!

oooh hardcore hacker :rolleyes: Not aload of **** its true that you can access details of what the user has been doing on their computer using simple free programs across the web

[WarezKid]

oh kk.

[N!ck]

All they did on the real hustle was crack a WEP secured network, which is pretty simple and then monitor the decrypted packets going across the network to find out they were booking a holiday or whatever it was.

[lumisota]

Breaking into a network and simply connecting to an open network, where the person chooses not to encrypt it, are two different things.

People cannot expect to transmit anything through the air without any protection, and have nobody "stealing" their connection.

I'm not suggesting we all get Mission Impossible style and sit in our neighbours lawn bidding on glassware on eBay (aherm (http://listings.ebay.com/Glassware_Depression_W0QQdfspZ2QQlopgZ5QQsacatZ100 2QQsocmdZListingItemList)), but hell, if it's not protected, and you aren't torrenting your socks off -- why not?

[xiao]

i do it sometimes when im at uni

[Technologic]

Well if people used WEP keys they wouldn't have this bloody problem..

[today]

I use the Schools sometimes, they actually have good speeds! :]

[Hitman]

I think it's disgusting that people use someone elses wifi without consent.
It's like leaving your car unlocked though, they should secure the network.

WarezKid/Jake, if you have the right software you can get their details. I gave you that program yesterday - the one with 175 things, that has WEP cracking (generating a password).

[PaulMacC]

I have a router with a secured WEP code.

[Mentor]

It so easy to get around that though.

And I believe that if it's unsecured then that's fine, and maybe i've been on secured ones before :rolleyes:.

Well maybe some routers are a bit crap, but generally mac address filtering is significantly more secure than web encryption which can easily be broken. (in terms of stopping people accessing the router and its facility's, but as with any none encrypted wireless, you can easily just listen in.

[lScottl]

I would never steal it.

[samsaBEAR]

i only use mine, and its locked. but if mine wasnt working, and a neighbours came up as unlocked, id proberly use it. but only if it was urgent

[Metric.]

I figured out the password to the schools wireless network, LOLX.

[jrh2002]

I use my own but if I had no net I would user somebody elses with permission or not :) however I do think its stealing.

[uh huh her]

we have our own but if it stopped working and i was in dire need for something i'd probably piggyback.

[Grindie]

my parents are sometimes harsh and turn off my router early, so I steal the next door neighbours connection becuase they have no password

i don't feel guilty.

[N!ck]

Well maybe some routers are a bit crap, but generally mac address filtering is significantly more secure than web encryption which can easily be broken. (in terms of stopping people accessing the router and its facility's, but as with any none encrypted wireless, you can easily just listen in.

No, getting around MAc adress filtering is the same on all routers. You find the mac address of a device that is allowed access to router i.e. by packet sniffing and then spoof the mac address onto your device so you have the same mac address as an allowed device.

[Naruto!]

I can pick up 4 other wireless connections atm on my computer.
All of them are protected. Good for them.

[Shawnstra]

If I get permission yes.

[WarezKid]

If I get permission yes.

Do you knock next door and ask?

[dannyisnotamazing]

I can pick up 4 other wireless connections atm on my computer.
All of them are protected. Good for them.

http://i4.tinypic.com/8byg66x.png

4/5 secure for me. xD

[Naruto!]

http://i4.tinypic.com/8byg66x.png

4/5 secure for me. xD
I wouldn't be suprised if a few were leeching off your connection though!

[dannyisnotamazing]

I wouldn't be suprised if a few were leeching off your connection though!

I put a pass on it but then my iPod touch can't connect. :( I'll try changing security type.. and yeah I do check sometimes if anyone else apart from desktop and me are online but rarely people are xD.

http://i7.tinypic.com/8171aa9.png

No one else is on now, I don't think lol :P

Edit; tried it with a different security level thing and my ipod can connect now xD.

[Ramones]

mines protected, i only steal next doors when mines not working, they're polish and don't have a clue.

[Jordy]

mines protected, i only steal next doors when mines not working, they're polish and don't have a clue.Indeed, when Virgin Media is down I'll use my neighbours as they don't seem to be on Virgin Media. I don't use it excessively or often, but I doubt they're going to send me virus's or prosecute me. It's this house full of about 3-4 chav's and then this old man, surprised they even have a router... They spend all their money tuning their crappy Ford Escort and Peugeot 106.

[mangle]

Nope , my wi fi is fine and the neighbours is WEP protected anyway.

[Mr.Sam]

Mine is protected, But we are really good friends with next door so they allow me to use theirs if ours is playing up.

I don't think people should be using others connections whether protected or not, Unless it's a public place like a library or airport.

[Asher]

yesss, i do

[mangle]

I'd like to see places offer free wifi like McDonalds do in some places. That'd encourage me to eat there :)

[Ashley 12344]

My friend does. I either don't need to, or it won't pick up any. Always a VERY low signal if I do.
I once guessed the code for somebodys though :S