Habbox staff tree

[Cixso]

Whats the tree?

Is MAD at the highest rank or is Elka (forgot his name?)

Anybody care to reply with the tree of the HXF staff?

Thanks.

[Sammeth.]

Owner
GM
AGMS
Dept Managers
Senior Staff
Normal Staff
VIPs
Members

I think thats how it would go.

[Cixso]

Owner
GM
AGMS
Dept Managers
Senior Staff
Normal Staff
VIPs
Members

I think thats how it would go.

Where does the forum manager fit in?

[today]

Dept Manager.

[Cixso]

Thank you.

Just got curious that's all. :)

[GommeInc]

Dept Manager.
Yup, even though it's far too big to be a department. It really should be considered a seperate area of Habbox. I drew up a tree yesterday of the Habbox hierarchy, and it's awfully confusing when you take out the AGMs and considering them as managers (which really they are). Lots of squiggles.

[--ss--]

I'm guessing Elkaa is around the same as the AGM's but a bit higher up as he has more physical power to do staff , The AGM's are the one's with lime green names ;).

It's be
Sierk
---mad---
Elkaa
AGM's
Jin , jay and any other general admins
managers
and so on

I may be incorrect as I ain't an admin.

[Alkaz]

Owner
GM
AGMS
FM
AFM
Dept Managers
A Dept Managers
Senior Staff
Normal Staff
VIPs
Members
Cautioned members

[Sammeth.]

In terms of powers on the forum, obviously the forum manager is higher than other department managers. But thats so he can do his job! In terms of equality, all department managers are on parr with each other. Innit.

[today]

Owner
GM
AGMS
FM
AFM
Dept Managers
A Dept Managers
Senior Staff
Normal Staff
VIPs
Members
Cautioned members
I dont see VIP's higher then normal members.

[Cixso]

I dont see VIP's higher then normal members.

Was thinking the same thing.

There more higher than normal because they pay?

Kinda unfair but ah well.

[Sammeth.]

I dont see VIP's higher then normal members.

Why not? They have better features than members.

[joshuar]

FM is the same level as Dept. Manager
AFM is the same level as Assist. Dept. Manager

They only appear to have more power due to them being Forum Administrators, and also with the forum being such a big department and housing some of the other departments and being the information point for all staff.

[Cixso]

Why not? They have better features than members.
Guess so.

But still doesn't make them more important, but "higher ranked" as in usergroup wise.

[Sammeth.]

Guess so.

But still doesn't make them more important, but "higher ranked" as in usergroup wise.

Pay more attention to the V and I part of VIP.

[GommeInc]

They're treated the same and have the same level of opinions really. The only unique thing they have a say in is how VIP is run.

[Pyroka]

The General Manager should have no part of this 'tree' which is basically for the forum. I think we're all forgetting, what was the General Managers job? To manage the site, not the forum. Nothing will be done though, it'll just be given a half-witted response.

[today]

The General Manager should have no part of this 'tree' which is basically for the forum. I think we're all forgetting, what was the General Managers job? To manage the site, not the forum. Nothing will be done though, it'll just be given a half-witted response.
I always see the general manager as overlooking all departments as in general manager -> general department, no "certain" department..

[--ss--]

Guess so.

But still doesn't make them more important, but "higher ranked" as in usergroup wise.
They are more important as without them the forum wouldn't be able to fund it's self fully.
They're hgiher ranked as they have features such as being able to see who gave them rep , closing their own threads, Chanign usertittle's etc.

[GommeInc]

The General Manager should have no part of this 'tree' which is basically for the forum. I think we're all forgetting, what was the General Managers job? To manage the site, not the forum. Nothing will be done though, it'll just be given a half-witted response.
Mmmm, true. The General Manager and Management should be dealing with the site more than the forum, they did in the past even with 8Freak8. The forum was only looked over, not heavily looked at and changed, which is probably why the site has been a bit neglected. The amount of AGMs is a bit ridiculous too, they're just selected department managers that make up something that resembles a 'Board of Directors,' which is like a management council where they discuss issues... Not really assisting the GM, the GM would only need 1 or 2, not a collection.

It's a bit odd the Forum Manager isn't an AGM too.


They are more important as without them the forum wouldn't be able to fund it's self fully.
They're hgiher ranked as they have features such as being able to see who gave them rep , closing their own threads, Chanign usertittle's etc.
That's background stuff really, they have just as much as a say as everyone else and VIP is easily acccessible. If it was for a selected group, then they would have more of a say because it's then an exclusive group that you must be chosen to join.

[Pat McGroin]

Habbox is messed up when it comes to all this. I remember when the GM which was then Site Manager had more or less nothing to do with the forum, now he more or less has to accept everything that happens. The FM and AFM should be the ones who get to decide all this.

The staff structure needs to be sorted out.

[today]

Habbox is messed up when it comes to all this. I remember when the GM which was then Site Manager had more or less nothing to do with the forum, now he more or less has to accept everything that happens. The FM and AFM should be the ones who get to decide all this.

The staff structure needs to be sorted out.
The GM is pretty much the co-owner now.

[Pyroka]

I always see the general manager as overlooking all departments as in general manager -> general department, no "certain" department..

So you think a forum & a site are both departments?

Last time I recall, departments would be classed as Articles, News, Graphics & Radio? Which are basically the site staff? However forum is ran by Moderators, Super Moderators and an (Assistant) Forum Manager. If that is indeed the case on the whole understanding of Management, then Habbox has been screwed for a while.


Mmmm, true. The General Manager and Management should be dealing with the site more than the forum, they did in the past even with 8Freak8. The forum was only looked over, not heavily looked at and changed, which is probably why the site has been a bit neglected. The amount of AGMs is a bit ridiculous too, they're just selected department managers that make up something that resembles a 'Board of Directors,' which is like a management council where they discuss issues... Not really assisting the GM, the GM would only need 1 or 2, not a collection.

It's a bit odd the Forum Manager isn't an AGM too.

Thing is, they don't because the forum is the biggest part of the 'Habbox empire'. They're better to just make the GM an acting FM, since that's what it is. The amount of AGMs, that isn't actually many. It's 4-5 in total, but this is the thing, they've been AGMs of the Forum. It is a board of directors, I agree with that. That isn't a bad thing of course, however their position of AGMs is definitely misintepreting their actual job.

[today]

So you think a forum & a site are both departments?

Last time I recall, departments would be classed as Articles, News, Graphics & Radio? Which are basically the site staff? However forum is ran by Moderators, Super Moderators and an (Assistant) Forum Manager. If that is indeed the case on the whole understanding of Management, then Habbox has been screwed for a while.



Thing is, they don't because the forum is the biggest part of the 'Habbox empire'. They're better to just make the GM an acting FM, since that's what it is. The amount of AGMs, that isn't actually many. It's 4-5 in total, but this is the thing, they've been AGMs of the Forum. It is a board of directors, I agree with that. That isn't a bad thing of course, however their position of AGMs is definitely misintepreting their actual job.
Yes, i count the forum as a department, it has staff. So its a department. Articles ect are also departments, to me they are 'side departments' from the main department, the website. And graphics a side department from the forum/site/other departments.

[Pyroka]

Yes, i count the forum as a department, it has staff. So its a department. Articles ect are also departments, to me they are 'side departments' from the main department, the website. And graphics a side department from the forum/site/other departments.

I don't mean to sound like I'm targeting you, however this could come across as such actions.

The forum is a base, a base of communications for all staff members to come together and operate effectively. The site is where all that operation and production comes into view into the public. They're two completely different things, and if you think this then most of the staff will too.

The graphics department, I accept do both sides of the 'empire' since it's just... the way things are. The General Management though, shouldnt be.

I'm surprised Forum Management & General Management don't come across as different things.

[today]

The general managment has a say in everything, the content manager to me should be site manager, and general manager as i said can say anything about any department as they are pretty much "owner" while Sierk is away.

[Pyroka]

Well I know that the General Manager sets targets for every single part of the departments, including the forum (even though it really isn't a department) because I seen 8Freak8 do it back in the day! Thing is though, it seems like the GM also helps fulfill those targets on the forum, which we're seeing quite alot.

The General Manager is owner whilst away, I agree with that. But since when is Sierk actively on HabboxForum? ... *tumbleweed* Content Manager is basically Site Manager, I agree with that. However the General Management really have got to get their act together, and let others play the scene. (so to speak)

[JoeyK.]

The Forum Manager is a department just as the HabboxLive Manager and HabboxWorld Manager are department managers. All department managers are on the same level, though some have more influence obviously (Rare Values, Forum, etc)


Owner > General Manger > Assistant General Managers > Department Managers > Staff

[Pyroka]

...

Somethings not coming across here.

Forum & Site.
VBulletin & Joomla.
Large & Little.

Anyone catching the drift yet? ;)

[today]

...

Somethings not coming across here.

Forum & Site.
VBulletin & Joomla.
Large & Little.

Anyone catching the drift yet? ;)
Fit & Ugly?

hahaha.

[Pyroka]

Pyroka & Hollywood?

You're getting the right idea. They're two completely different things.

[Cixso]

Pay more attention to the V and I part of VIP.

I meant as in a general person speaking. Not because they pay a quid a month...

That comment would be screwed of yours if I didn't know what VIP defined. Thank fully with some general knowledge... I do. :)

But yes, this forum wouldn't really be here without it so I guess that brings them up the ladder.

[today]

Pyroka & Hollywood?

You're getting the right idea. They're two completely different things.

What...

You mean.. You dont love me.. Harsh mate. :@

[Pyroka]

I do love you really. :P

I don't mean to be the demanding sort, but Elkaa, whats your say in all this? :)

[LoveHateHero]

Owner
GM
AGMS
FM
AFM
Dept Managers
A Dept Managers
Senior Staff
Normal Staff
VIPs
Members
Cautioned members
*Text Removed*

Edited by Agesilaus (Forum Super Moderator): Please do not make racist comments.

[---MAD---]

Owner
GM
AGMS
Dept Managers
Senior Staff
Normal Staff
VIPs
Members

I think thats how it would go.
Thats right yeah. Although VIPs and members tend to be on the same level ;).

[nvrspk4]

I'm guessing Elkaa is around the same as the AGM's but a bit higher up as he has more physical power to do staff , The AGM's are the one's with lime green names ;).

It's be
Sierk
---mad---
Elkaa
AGM's
Jin , jay and any other general admins
managers
and so on

I may be incorrect as I ain't an admin.

Elkaa isn't that high up, he's on the dept manager level, however in terms of powers, he's just above Manager, but below the ranks above him (and he does rank general admins).

Sammeth gave the best hierarchy (missing Cautioned Members / Banned Members @ bottom).

In reality I would say that FM is a step above Manager but below the jobs that rank manager, and AFM is a step above Assistant Manager but below Manager.

All the "General Admins" would fit in as senior staff, though some have more important single roles that can't really be placed in any one spot (like Jin, who saves us whenever we break things or Adzeh pushes the wrong button.)

[lew!]

VIPS are more important than normal members because we have more powers, Bigger things in sig, view more forums etc.

[Cixso]

VIPS are more important than normal members because we have more powers, Bigger things in sig, view more forums etc.
I mean as a role.

Like example MAD's role is more important than X because mad controls x & x.

VIP and members basically do the same stuff, but with VIP it's more functions. As in, what they do wise if you get me?

[sierk]

I think you should differentiate between a Habbox staff tree and a Habbox forum tree. On the Habbox staff tree there is no place for vips or cautioned/banned members, just like there is no place for habbos banned from hxhd, or listeners banned from hxlive.
Since all departments are equal, the forum members are no different from the habbos using our rare values or the listeners to our radio.

[Alkaz]

mmm so a general one would look something like this?

Owner
General Manager
Asst General Managers - Admin/techie
Forum Manager - Dept Manager
Asst Forum Manager - Asst Dept Manager
Staff
VIP's - Normal users
Cautioned - Banned users

??

[The Professor]

I think you should differentiate between a Habbox staff tree and a Habbox forum tree.

I was thinking that, but it seemed so weird that the thread had digressed that far I ignored it and presumed it was my mistake :P

As far as the forum tree goes, Elkaa is at the top, but in the staff tree he's kicked down into the musty ranks of the dept managers :P He should just be locked up in a cage tbh, he bites. I dont see why we're looking this closely into the structure of a habbo based fansite, but I suppose its something to do :P

[Alkaz]

Yee something to do :)

[GommeInc]

I think you should differentiate between a Habbox staff tree and a Habbox forum tree. On the Habbox staff tree there is no place for vips or cautioned/banned members, just like there is no place for habbos banned from hxhd, or listeners banned from hxlive.
Since all departments are equal, the forum members are no different from the habbos using our rare values or the listeners to our radio.
Habbox Forum and Habbox are at the moment one big unorganised chaos, so you cannot possibly differentiate between the two, because they're both strongly connected. You cannot have a forum tree and a seperate staff tree, because the forum binds them both together. Seperating the two would be like trying to seperate the raw ingredients of an apple pie, which is near impossible because the sweetness from the sugar is aided by the sweetness of the apple, and such you'll need to have a detailed list of how much sweetness was in the two to seperate them.

[Dan2nd]

I think you should differentiate between a Habbox staff tree and a Habbox forum tree. On the Habbox staff tree there is no place for vips or cautioned/banned members, just like there is no place for habbos banned from hxhd, or listeners banned from hxlive.
Since all departments are equal, the forum members are no different from the habbos using our rare values or the listeners to our radio.

Meh I've always associated all the Habbox sites as one but meh I see what you're getting at.

I guess I agree with Gomme

[sierk1]

Habbox Forum and Habbox are at the moment one big unorganised chaos, so you cannot possibly differentiate between the two, because they're both strongly connected. You cannot have a forum tree and a seperate staff tree, because the forum binds them both together. Seperating the two would be like trying to seperate the raw ingredients of an apple pie, which is near impossible because the sweetness from the sugar is aided by the sweetness of the apple, and such you'll need to have a detailed list of how much sweetness was in the two to seperate them.

You speak complete nonsense. You say because the forum and habbox are chaos, you cannot differentiate, because they are connected? So which one is the reason, the chaos or the connectedness??? In any case it doesn't make any sense. Of course you can differentiate between a forum tree and a staff tree.

Your apple pie analogy doesn't make any sense either. Of course you can separate (not seperate) the ingredients of an apple pie. Sweetness is not a physical compound that can be found in things, it is a taste sensation. What you mean is that it is hard to tell which part of the sweet sensation when you eat an apple pie comes from the sugar, and which from the apples. God knows what this has to do with making a separate tree for the structe of the Habbox staff and the forum.

[TidgyPie]

You speak complete nonsense. You say because the forum and habbox are chaos, you cannot differentiate, because they are connected? So which one is the reason, the chaos or the connectedness??? In any case it doesn't make any sense. Of course you can differentiate between a forum tree and a staff tree.

Your apple pie analogy doesn't make any sense either. Of course you can separate (not seperate) the ingredients of an apple pie. Sweetness is not a physical compound that can be found in things, it is a taste sensation. What you mean is that it is hard to tell which part of the sweet sensation when you eat an apple pie comes from the sugar, and which from the apples. God knows what this has to do with making a separate tree for the structe of the Habbox staff and the forum.

GO SIERK!!!

Gommeinc trys to comment on the site when i would love to see him cope with a forum and sites as big as this?

[Orangeesh]

mmm so a general one would look something like this?

Owner
General Manager
Asst General Managers - Admin/techie
Forum Manager - Dept Manager
Asst Forum Manager - Asst Dept Manager
Staff - Senior + normal
VIP's - Normal users
unregistered + habbox live listeners + habbox site viewers
Cautioned - Banned users

??

I added some bits, as when you say general do you mean whole of Habbox or just Habbox forum?

[Dan2nd]

GO SIERK!!!

Gommeinc trys to comment on the site when i would love to see him cope with a forum and sites as big as this?

that's like saying I'm not aloud to comment on goverment policy because I'm not qualified to be Prime Minister

edit: sorry I meant shouldn't be aloud

[GommeInc]

You speak complete nonsense. You say because the forum and habbox are chaos, you cannot differentiate, because they are connected? So which one is the reason, the chaos or the connectedness??? In any case it doesn't make any sense. Of course you can differentiate between a forum tree and a staff tree.
You speak nonsense too... Differentiate = separate. Connected = joined. You can not separate the forum and the staff, because the forum joins the two. A forum tree is a compound of the staff. A staff tree would be a watered down version of a forum tree, minus the forum associates e.g. the forum administrators, manager, assistant managers and moderators. The reason is the compound, the chaos is what the compound state is in now and the connection is the compound i.e. the forum tree (which is a forum staff tree/hierarchy of Habbox Staff) and the staff tree. The reason you cannot seperate them is because they're connected, they're a compound.


Your apple pie analogy doesn't make any sense either. Of course you can separate (not seperate) the ingredients of an apple pie. Sweetness is not a physical compound that can be found in things, it is a taste sensation. What you mean is that it is hard to tell which part of the sweet sensation when you eat an apple pie comes from the sugar, and which from the apples. God knows what this has to do with making a separate tree for the structe of the Habbox staff and the forum.
Your weak analytic mind falls prey to this. You cannot literally seperate an apple pies ingredients to raw foundations, which is like separating a staff tree from a staff tree (which is what they mean by the forum tree, the compound in which all staff and wherever this basic staff tree comes from). The whole Habbox hierarchy is an apple pie, particularly the filling. The sweetness which comes from the sugar can also be found in the apple and seperating the two will leave sugar and a somewhat sweetless apple which doesn't even form the common apple shape.

You must learn to read the fine print. The sweetness comes from the sugar and apple which is the core flavour of an apple pie. The sweet sensation i.e. flavour comes from the sugar and the apple(s) added in the mix.

Note: sugar and apple.

When you split the sweetness back to its foundation, the two are so familiar you would not know how much of the sugar i.e. sweetness has come from the apple and how much from the sugar you originally added.

Compare this to the Forum Table and the Staff Table:

The forum table = apple (has sugar i.e. sweetness amongst other things) includes the staff table = sugar. If you seperate the forum table from the staff table, the forum table would just be members = the other compounds of an apple.

Perhaps apple pie should of just been an apple, as I did not mention crust, cinnamon etc. But my example still remains the same.


GO SIERK!!!

Gommeinc trys to comment on the site when i would love to see him cope with a forum and sites as big as this?
So you are allowed to comment on how good someone runs a site, yet you have no experience nor knowledge to even compare to it. Take your example, reverse it and you've got a counter-criticism.

[TidgyPie]

You speak nonsense too... Differentiate = separate. Connected = joined. You can not separate the forum and the staff, because the forum joins the two. A forum tree is a compound of the staff. A staff tree would be a watered down version of a forum tree, minus the forum associates e.g. the forum administrators, manager, assistant managers and moderators. The reason is the compound, the chaos is what the compound state is in now and the connection is the compound i.e. the forum tree (which is a forum staff tree/hierarchy of Habbox Staff) and the staff tree. The reason you cannot seperate them is because they're connected, they're a compound.


Your weak analytic mind falls prey to this. You cannot literally seperate an apple pies ingredients to raw foundations, which is like separating a staff tree from a staff tree (which is what they mean by the forum tree, the compound in which all staff and wherever this basic staff tree comes from). The whole Habbox hierarchy is an apple pie, particularly the filling. The sweetness which comes from the sugar can also be found in the apple and seperating the two will leave sugar and a somewhat sweetless apple which doesn't even form the common apple shape.

You must learn to read the fine print. The sweetness comes from the sugar and apple which is the core flavour of an apple pie. The sweet sensation i.e. flavour comes from the sugar and the apple(s) added in the mix.

Note: sugar and apple.

When you split the sweetness back to its foundation, the two are so familiar you would not know how much of the sugar i.e. sweetness has come from the apple and how much from the sugar you originally added.

Compare this to the Forum Table and the Staff Table:

The forum table = apple (has sugar i.e. sweetness amongst other things) includes the staff table = sugar. If you seperate the forum table from the staff table, the forum table would just be members = the other compounds of an apple.

Perhaps apple pie should of just been an apple, as I did not mention crust, cinnamon etc. But my example still remains the same.


So you are allowed to comment on how good someone runs a site, yet you have no experience nor knowledge to even compare to it. Take your example, reverse it and you've got a counter-criticism.

Whatever your saying is utter crap, serisouly. If this all you do for fun then you need to get out more :)

[GommeInc]

Whatever your saying is utter crap, serisouly. If this all you do for fun then you need to get out more :)
Is that your way of saying "I don't understand a word of this, I shall just offend them because I have lost this argument"? Because I have seen it all before. When you out smart a babboon, they take a personal insult and throw it at you. If you suck up to people online, surely that is an excuse to get out more? I open the door to the world for you ;)

[TidgyPie]

Is that your way of saying "I don't understand a word of this, I shall just offend them because I have lost this argument"? Because I have seen it all before. When you out smart a babboon, they take a personal insult and throw it at you. If you suck up to people online, surely that is an excuse to get out more? I open the door to the world for you ;)


im not going to waste my time on someone as low as you.

[Immenseman]

im not going to waste my time on someone as low as you.

In other words, you're not going to reply because you can't think of any valid points and you're getting beaten.. okay.

[Dan2nd]

im not going to waste my time on someone as low as you.

I think you're one of these dudes who needs to learn just because you're staff you are aloud your own opinion and here is an obvious example where you're to busy butt licking Sirek to have one

[GommeInc]

im not going to waste my time on someone as low as you.
How is it low? It's logical banter with sierk, who I am aware is a very knowledgeable man :D It's only low on you because you don't understand it :rolleyes:

[Roboevil]

Is that your way of saying "I don't understand a word of this, I shall just offend them because I have lost this argument"? Because I have seen it all before. When you out smart a babboon, they take a personal insult and throw it at you. If you suck up to people online, surely that is an excuse to get out more? I open the door to the world for you ;)

Village boy you totally own.

[Boonzeet]

Boonzeet
Owner
GM
AGMS
FM
AFM
Dept Managers
A Dept Managers
Senior Staff
Etc...

Nah
Wow GommeInc owned.

[Roboevil]

Elkaa is not above department managers... as that would mean he's my manager, which he isn't. In terms of the forum, he may have more power over me, but he doesn't have any more authority over me than the other department managers do.

[FlyingJesus]

You speak nonsense too... Differentiate = separate. Connected = joined. You can not separate the forum and the staff, because the forum joins the two. A forum tree is a compound of the staff. A staff tree would be a watered down version of a forum tree, minus the forum associates e.g. the forum administrators, manager, assistant managers and moderators. The reason is the compound, the chaos is what the compound state is in now and the connection is the compound i.e. the forum tree (which is a forum staff tree/hierarchy of Habbox Staff) and the staff tree. The reason you cannot seperate them is because they're connected, they're a compound.

Made simple, a forum tree would include normal members, VIPs etc., whilst a staff one would only note the staff members. It's really quite easy to separate the two lol.

Also where do Council Members come into this :'( I want to look important.

[GommeInc]

The forum manager should be an AGM, considering the forum is one of the biggest parts of Habbox, if not the biggest.

[Pyroka]

For a minute there, I thought this thread was turning into a cooking lesson, with Gary 'Gomme' Rhodes. I didn't expect Sierk of all people, to pick at a spelling error... Pretty poor in my opinion.

Whether Habbox be in chaos or connectedness (I think connection was the right word for what you're saying.), the actual issue in which this thread is bringing up, of forum/site staff mixing their duties with those are not theirs, is bringing Habbox into disrepute. The forum has a Forum Manager, correct? The website has a Site Manager (aka General Manager), correct? Well, how do we differentiate the two? Oh yeah, the small fact that they both run two large entities which bring together the Habbox empire.

However, it seems the General Manager is moving in on 'turf' which is not his: The Forum. It's all fine and well that the GM has some interest in the Forum and how its going on, however the issue is that the GM has got more than just interest, he's got purpose in the Forum. The purpose of Management within the forum which he shouldn't have. Taking a bit of Gommes food knowledge, the Apple and the Pie are like the Forum and the Site. Without the 'Apple' then the 'Pie' doesn't get that far either. Yeah, I just said the Forum is alot more popular than the site, and isn't that the truth?

The GM should be writing up targets for the FM to chase and meet, however he himself is doing the targets. 'Helping the FM achieve them' is not the case, since he's helping himself in making the forum better. That is the FM's job, if you didn't realise. I dont agree with Gomme however, on the FM being an AGM. What we're saying is that the General Managers are separate, they have their website(s) to manage and the Forum Manager has HabboxForum to manage. Making Elkaa an AGM would mean he has to help the GM (which in a sense, he already does by meeting the GM's targets), but that also puts Elkaa below the General Manager.

A clash of ranks, simply.

[GommeInc]

Indeed, ranks are an issue. I suggested to someone to scrap the current meaning of AGM, because they're not exactly assisting the GM in the way an AGM should work. All the AGMs are just department managers, and the ones which are current AGMs would be a part of a management council, like a Board of Directors, which in reality what the current management and AGMs are.

An AGM literally has no other job than assisting the GM, the current AGMs should be busy dealing with their departments.

[FlyingJesus]

Let's make some words bold for no apparent reason.

[Immenseman]

For a minute there, I thought this thread was turning into a cooking lesson, with Gary 'Gomme' Rhodes. I didn't expect Sierk of all people, to pick at a spelling error... Pretty poor in my opinion.

Whether Habbox be in chaos or connectedness (I think connection was the right word for what you're saying.), the actual issue in which this thread is bringing up, of forum/site staff mixing their duties with those are not theirs, is bringing Habbox into disrepute. The forum has a Forum Manager, correct? The website has a Site Manager (aka General Manager), correct? Well, how do we differentiate the two? Oh yeah, the small fact that they both run two large entities which bring together the Habbox empire.

However, it seems the General Manager is moving in on 'turf' which is not his: The Forum. It's all fine and well that the GM has some interest in the Forum and how its going on, however the issue is that the GM has got more than just interest, he's got purpose in the Forum. The purpose of Management within the forum which he shouldn't have. Taking a bit of Gommes food knowledge, the Apple and the Pie are like the Forum and the Site. Without the 'Apple' then the 'Pie' doesn't get that far either. Yeah, I just said the Forum is alot more popular than the site, and isn't that the truth?

The GM should be writing up targets for the FM to chase and meet, however he himself is doing the targets. 'Helping the FM achieve them' is not the case, since he's helping himself in making the forum better. That is the FM's job, if you didn't realise. I dont agree with Gomme however, on the FM being an AGM. What we're saying is that the General Managers are separate, they have their website(s) to manage and the Forum Manager has HabboxForum to manage. Making Elkaa an AGM would mean he has to help the GM (which in a sense, he already does by meeting the GM's targets), but that also puts Elkaa below the General Manager.

A clash of ranks, simply.

I understand what you're saying and see completely where you're coming from. However, the general manager isn't called the 'site' manager if he was then that point would be valid. He is the General Manager so therefore he manages the whole of Habbox.

The forum manager is just a department manager at the end of the day, with the biggest department to manage. Like any department the general management have a say in what changes occur, it's not them taking over it's just so they're aware what's going on and to offer help should the department manager want it.

[GommeInc]

But surely the current Assistant General Managers are just Department Managers which are part of a management related council, to help make decisions as someone in the management area mentioned? An AGM assists the GM with everything, the AGMs don't and if they do, it's no wonder the departments are slightly lacking in attention. Thankfully it seems to be clearing up. I personally think opensourcehost should be made site manager, because he clearly does alot of work and gets the job done.

[Pyroka]

Indeed, ranks are an issue. I suggested to someone to scrap the current meaning of AGM, because they're not exactly assisting the GM in the way an AGM should work. All the AGMs are just department managers, and the ones which are current AGMs would be a part of a management council, like a Board of Directors, which in reality what the current management and AGMs are.

An AGM literally has no other job than assisting the GM, the current AGMs should be busy dealing with their departments.

AGM = Directors

MAD: Management in all below
Joshuar: HabboxWorld
nvrspk4: HxHD
sierk: Habbox
Adzeh: HabboxLive (I think still?)

You get the idea? I don't think Directors would be a suitable word however.


Let's make some words bold for no apparent reason.

Well kk, why not????11? (A)


I understand what you're saying and see completely where you're coming from. However, the general manager isn't called the 'site' manager if he was then that point would be valid. He is the General Manager so therefore he manages the whole of Habbox.

The forum manager is just a department manager at the end of the day, with the biggest department to manage. Like any department the general management have a say in what changes occur, it's not them taking over it's just so they're aware what's going on and to offer help should the department manager want it.

Here's the current GM's way of 'managing': Controlling. :) If you class the FM as a Departmental Manager, then does that make him 'Head Dept Manager' being the biggest Dept? Wait, no. That's MADs job. Lol this is fun.

[Immenseman]

But surely the current Assistant General Managers are just Department Managers which are part of a management related council, to help make decisions as someone in the management area mentioned? An AGM assists the GM with everything, the AGMs don't and if they do, it's no wonder the departments are slightly lacking in attention. Thankfully it seems to be clearing up. I personally think opensourcehost should be made site manager, because he clearly does alot of work and gets the job done.

I can see what you mean that they don't directly help the GM like most assistant managers help their manager but all of them have specific rules though. Joshuar is the international manager, nvrspk4 staff editor, Adzeh department co-ordinator or something like that :P.

[joshuar]

I personally help ---MAD--- a hell of alot, and I am sure that the other AGMs do aswell, hence why we are Assistant General Managers. Also as part of me being an AGM I make sure that the HabboxWorld Managers are doing their jobs and that the site is being run well.

The forum is a department, and the content design department look after the site. It isn't ---MAD---'s job to look after the site, it's his job to look after all of the sites (Habbox, Habbox UK Forum, HabboxWorld Forum, HabboxLive and UploadPicz), and make sure they are running well etc.

[Pyroka]

I'm sure you do Josh, and I'm not questioning the amount of work the AGMs do at all. I understand what you're saying, however the forum has just outgrown the website. It's not a department, it's an entity in itself. Plus, MAD is looking after the sites and I agree with that. However, he's not just looking after the sites, which is the problem.

[joshuar]

I'm sure you do Josh, and I'm not questioning the amount of work the AGMs do at all. I understand what you're saying, however the forum has just outgrown the website. It's not a department, it's an entity in itself. Plus, MAD is looking after the sites and I agree with that. However, he's not just looking after the sites, which is the problem.

Just because one department has grown larger than the rest doesn't mean that it can't run under the Habbox General Management. It can still be run by the Forum Manager and the Assistant Forum Manager, but due to the sheer size of it, it means that ---MAD--- will pay alot of attention to it to make sure it's running well. The other sites are being run by department managers, whilst being watched over by the GM, and in my case, an AGM.

[GommeInc]

AGM = Directors

MAD: Management in all below
Joshuar: HabboxWorld
nvrspk4: HxHD
sierk: Habbox
Adzeh: HabboxLive (I think still?)

You get the idea? I don't think Directors would be a suitable word however.
A Board of Directors can be made up of Managers, the board is called a directors board but the people who make it up are called managers, whoa re picked out from departments and help choose their ideas. That's really what the AGMs are, a manager version of a Board of Directors.


Just because one department has grown larger than the rest doesn't mean that it can't run under the Habbox General Management. It can still be run by the Forum Manager and the Assistant Forum Manager, but due to the sheer size of it, it means that ---MAD--- will pay alot of attention to it to make sure it's running well. The other sites are being run by department managers, whilst being watched over by the GM, and in my case, an AGM.
Then give the forum its own team. At the moment the Forum Manager may aswell be a Habbox Forum definition of an AGM, rather than a manager.

The whole staff roles needs to be looked at, it makes very little sense. You should be International Manager, rather than the big label AGM unless you look after the GM more than you job, which you shouldn't be because then your department would fail miserably. An AGMs mian concern is with the GM, while the AGMs main concerns on Habbox should be with their departments/jobs/area. An AGM is literally someone you talk to when the GM is not available, and who is the GM while he is away.

[Pyroka]

Senior Management would be better described, instead of AGM.

Senior Management could easily use 'International Manager' and still stay in context of what the group is. General Manager could be better suited as Director, and the rest can be as they are. I find that alot more simpler to understand, and I'm sure others will (if they bother to read...). Josh, do you know anything of the main roles each AGM has? Like, the unique roles.

[Adzeh]

The General Manager oversee's the running of all departments within Habbox which are being taken care of by department managers. The Forum Manager, while possessing more powers and responsibilities on the forum than a regular department manager, is still a department manager nonetheless.

The only exception to the above is HabboxWorld, which requires Joshuar to take a more active role than MAD in overseeing this area of Habbox. The General Manager is basically mainly focused on the UK side of Habbox, since it is the side that requires the most attention due to it being larger than the international side.

The AGM's assist the General Manager in different areas for the site and running of Habbox. Nvrspk deals with staff issues such as arguments, infractions, warnings, forum permissions and all other staff related incidents. Joshuar obviously is responsible for Habbox World and is our only department specific AGM. I am responsible for highlighting problem areas within Habbox departments and giving advice to the managers on how to improve these areas and ensuring that things run smoothly, with outdated policies being removed when necessary.

The staff tree of theoretical power within Habbox is:

sierk
---MAD---
Joshuar, nvrpsk4, myself
Department managers (including forum manager)
Assistant department managers
Senior department staff (super moderators, senior DJs, events organisers etc...)
Department staff.

The tree of actual physical power within Habbox is quite different though:

sierk
---MAD---
nvrspk4 Joshuar
(Assistant) Forum manager, Myself
Department managers, super moderators
Senior department staff, Forum moderators
Department staff

[GommeInc]

Senior Management would be better described, instead of AGM.

Senior Management could easily use 'International Manager' and still stay in context of what the group is. General Manager could be better suited as Director, and the rest can be as they are. I find that alot more simpler to understand, and I'm sure others will (if they bother to read...). Josh, do you know anything of the main roles each AGM has? Like, the unique roles.
Urrrgh, damn you for finding a better name for them!

[Adzeh]

Also Pyroka, details of the staff roles for AGMS can be found on the Hx management page:

http://www.habbox.com/site//content/view/77/91/

[Pyroka]

The General Manager oversee's the running of all departments within Habbox which are being taken care of by department managers. The Forum Manager, while possessing more powers and responsibilities on the forum than a regular department manager, is still a department manager nonetheless.

The only exception to the above is HabboxWorld, which requires Joshuar to take a more active role than MAD in overseeing this area of Habbox. The General Manager is basically mainly focused on the UK side of Habbox, since it is the side that requires the most attention due to it being larger than the international side.

The AGM's assist the General Manager in different areas for the site and running of Habbox. Nvrspk deals with staff issues such as arguments, infractions, warnings, forum permissions and all other staff related incidents. Joshuar obviously is responsible for Habbox World and is our only department specific AGM. I am responsible for highlighting problem areas within Habbox departments and giving advice to the managers on how to improve these areas and ensuring that things run smoothly, with outdated policies being removed when necessary.

The staff tree of theoretical power within Habbox is:

sierk
---MAD---
Joshuar, nvrpsk4, myself
Department managers (including forum manager)
Assistant department managers
Senior department staff (super moderators, senior DJs, events organisers etc...)
Department staff.

The tree of actual physical power within Habbox is quite different though:

sierk
---MAD---
nvrspk4 Joshuar
(Assistant) Forum manager, Myself
Department managers, super moderators
Senior department staff, Forum moderators
Department staff

Josh - International Manager
Nvrspk4 - Staff Relations Manager
Adzeh - Advisory Manager
---MAD--- - General Manager
Elkaa - Communication Manager (Forum Manager, basically)

Now, doesn't that make just that little bit more sense? I'm still shocked on how the FM is below the AGMs. If Senior Management were to go through, and that was in effect, I'd find it so much more easier to understand. :) The physical and theoretical trees should both be the same... We just hit the same issue again. :P

EDIT: Thanks for the link Adzeh, I'll check it through now and see if I need to revise those names I just stated.


Urrrgh, damn you for finding a better name for them!

.. And making you speechless... ;)

[GommeInc]

Department Managers who run a Habbox site
Doesn't make sense. They're a special breed of managers, can't think what you'll call it :P Senior Managers does make alot more sense than AGM looking at that page.

[Pyroka]

Doesn't make sense. They're a special breed of managers, can't think what you'll call it :P Senior Managers does make alot more sense than AGM looking at that page.

I was going to mention that, looking at the website... Senior Management would class all these into the one catagory. I'm just not sure where that'd leave ,Jess, & opensourcehost (seeing as yoshi resigned).

[e5]

Also Pyroka, details of the staff roles for AGMS can be found on the Hx management page:

http://www.habbox.com/site//content/view/77/91/
Thats very useful ;)

[GommeInc]

I was going to mention that, looking at the website... Senior Management would class all these into the one catagory. I'm just not sure where that'd leave ,Jess, & opensourcehost (seeing as yoshi resigned).
Is there really something you could call them? You would of course label them individually, like Content Manager and Radio Manager (although I think that has a special name) but site managers doesn't really sound all that nice.

[Pyroka]

Is there really something you could call them? You would of course label them individually, like Content Manager and Radio Manager (although I think that has a special name) but site managers doesn't really sound all that nice.

Site Manager & Sound Manager? Opensource is more like josh on a lower scale... Not yet a Manager, yet a SMOD. Hard to really class that... Uhm, I'm thinking Joomla Manager. I think though, Junior Management would be better defined for them. I do hate how theres a large divide between Junior and Senior, Junior sounds inexperienced...

[GommeInc]

Site Manager & Sound Manager? Opensource is more like josh on a lower scale... Not yet a Manager, yet a SMOD. Hard to really class that... Uhm, I'm thinking Joomla Manager. I think though, Junior Management would be better defined for them. I do hate how theres a large divide between Junior and Senior, Junior sounds inexperienced...
Site Technician? I think ,Jess,'s job title comes under Head DJ or something, although that might be an evil Americanism, so Sound Manager/Radio Manager is probably best :P

[Mr.OSH]

Site Manager & Sound Manager? Opensource is more like josh on a lower scale... Not yet a Manager, yet a SMOD. Hard to really class that... Uhm, I'm thinking Joomla Manager. I think though, Junior Management would be better defined for them. I do hate how theres a large divide between Junior and Senior, Junior sounds inexperienced...

:P Actually I have 2 manager jobs [HabboxWorld and Content Design] and an administrator job - I'm not a Super Moderator anymore. I got promoted a little while ago.

[Pyroka]

There are a few Head DJs, and they all report to the RM. Site Engineer! :D I'm just too good at this...

Oh my, I didn't know opensource. I knew you were a Manager at HabboxWorld however I see Joshuar as Management in Habbox, and it's just finding a suitable name for you in the Habbox ranks, as to HabboxWorld ranks. Content Design Management/Site Engineer are the same thing.

Gah, you're a special case you are.

[Mr.OSH]

There are a few Head DJs, and they all report to the RM. Site Engineer! :D I'm just too good at this...

Oh my, I didn't know opensource. I knew you were a Manager at HabboxWorld however I see Joshuar as Management in Habbox, and it's just finding a suitable name for you in the Habbox ranks, as to HabboxWorld ranks. Content Design Management/Site Engineer are the same thing.

Gah, you're a special case you are.


Basically my job(s) consist of:

General Administrator - Basically above Super Moderator and helping out the moderation team, general administration tasks and helping out with banning and moderating as well as anything else I'm needed for in order to assist the forum team.

HabboWorld Manager - Looking after HabboxWorld with the other HabboxWorld Managers. Joshuar oversees myself and the other Management of HabboxWorld and he deals with the managers. Also we are in charge of making the decisions on the forum and in regard to staff positions etc however joshuar oversees the general running of HabboxWorld and keeps everything in order along with us (we couldn't without him, he's amazing ;).)

Content Design Manager - In charge of the content on the Habbox.com website and most of the site itself. This includes maintenance of the site and the addition of new content and the general management of the site. I'm assisted in doing this by both ---MAD---, joshuar and the other General Manager (who do a fabulous job at helping me) as well as the great content design staff we have to work on the pages and content. :)

Just a little background to explain what I do. :P

[joshuar]

HabboxWorld has it's own little branch of staff which don't interact with this forum so much. The only people who have powers from their HabboxWorld positions on here are opensourcehost, yoshimitsui and ,Jess, (As they are the HabboxWorld Management).

We tend to keep HabboxWorld seperate from the UK Staff to avoid so much confusion.

I think that maybe a full list of jobs and positions should be put up, as what some people do is different to what you think they do. AGMs and GM are collectively known as the Habbox General Management, so I don't think a change is needed to Habbox Senior Management as it's sort of the same thing really, just changing the name of the role.

[Mr.OSH]

HabboxWorld has it's own little branch of staff which don't interact with this forum so much. The only people who have powers from their HabboxWorld positions on here are opensourcehost, yoshimitsui and ,Jess, (As they are the HabboxWorld Management).

We tend to keep HabboxWorld seperate from the UK Staff to avoid so much confusion.

I think that maybe a full list of jobs and positions should be put up, as what some people do is different to what you think they do. AGMs and GM are collectively known as the Habbox General Management, so I don't think a change is needed to Habbox Senior Management as it's sort of the same thing really, just changing the name of the role.

A redesign of the management page may be a good idea to include descriptions and it might be an idea to have a separate page with other senior staff on it but I'm not sure about that. I certainly think including explanations on the management pages on Habbox.com would be a good idea to make people more aware of what staff actually do. :)

[Pyroka]

Opensource, i bet you have a hard time doing all that. xD

It sounds more like you're cutting out HabboxWorld from the equation... Which is fair, if you want to be separate. You're like the Fawkland Islands of Habbox! (: I hate the word 'General' to be honest... It's too... General. General means so much, and I just think Senior Management seems much more 'proper'. Changing the name of the role is the exact point, because right now the role names are misdirecting. Assistant means helping out the General Manager, and in a way you do. It's just not obvious and it's hard to understand that, whereas Senior Management is not.

A list of job descriptions for each job which invovles management would be welcomed. I think one better would be describing the roles of each title, instead of person. That could kill a few more birds with one stone.

[joshuar]

Opensource, i bet you have a hard time doing all that. xD

It sounds more like you're cutting out HabboxWorld from the equation... Which is fair, if you want to be separate. You're like the Fawkland Islands of Habbox! (: I hate the word 'General' to be honest... It's too... General. General means so much, and I just think Senior Management seems much more 'proper'. Changing the name of the role is the exact point, because right now the role names are misdirecting. Assistant means helping out the General Manager, and in a way you do. It's just not obvious and it's hard to understand that, whereas Senior Management is not.

A list of job descriptions for each job which invovles management would be welcomed. I think one better would be describing the roles of each title, instead of person. That could kill a few more birds with one stone.


HabboxWorld is sort of cut out of the equation really, as the HabboxWorld staff don't get any sort of extra rights or permissions on this forum, only HabboxWorld Forum (with the exception of the managers).

I never liked the idea of adding the term "General" to Habbox when it was first out, I did make a point of what it should be back in the day, I'll find what I said and add it here.

I did mean that add each titles job, not each persons job, saves updating it all the time ;)

[Mr.OSH]

Opensource, i bet you have a hard time doing all that. xD

It sounds more like you're cutting out HabboxWorld from the equation... Which is fair, if you want to be separate. You're like the Fawkland Islands of Habbox! (: I hate the word 'General' to be honest... It's too... General. General means so much, and I just think Senior Management seems much more 'proper'. Changing the name of the role is the exact point, because right now the role names are misdirecting. Assistant means helping out the General Manager, and in a way you do. It's just not obvious and it's hard to understand that, whereas Senior Management is not.

A list of job descriptions for each job which invovles management would be welcomed. I think one better would be describing the roles of each title, instead of person. That could kill a few more birds with one stone.


I manage it, if I couldn't I wouldn't. ;) It is all about time management and if you enjoy the jobs you hold and I do enjoy them - I enjoy them very much and I love being a part of Habbox and helping as much as I can. Also I know what your saying about roles but we need to also state the person and the role so people can contact them if need be and know who is who but yes, it would be a good idea to make sure the roles had explanations so that members could be a better in sight into how the management run the forum and who does what.

[Nick.]

Yup, even though it's far too big to be a department. It really should be considered a seperate area of Habbox. I drew up a tree yesterday of the Habbox hierarchy, and it's awfully confusing when you take out the AGMs and considering them as managers (which really they are). Lots of squiggles.
You must have a very boring life...

[Pyroka]

HabboxWorld is sort of cut out of the equation really, as the HabboxWorld staff don't get any sort of extra rights or permissions on this forum, only HabboxWorld Forum (with the exception of the managers).

I never liked the idea of adding the term "General" to Habbox when it was first out, I did make a point of what it should be back in the day, I'll find what I said and add it here.

I did mean that add each titles job, not each persons job, saves updating it all the time ;)

Mmm... HabboxWorld, I've visited but it's not as big. It seems independant in most aspects, but still in the Habbox Empire. You know my thoughts on "General" so I won't even go into it, but I'd love to see what you said. I bet it'd spark some thoughts into my mind. =P

Ah, alriiiight! ^_^


I manage it, if I couldn't I wouldn't. ;) It is all about time management and if you enjoy the jobs you hold and I do enjoy them - I enjoy them very much and I love being a part of Habbox and helping as much as I can. Also I know what your saying about roles but we need to also state the person and the role so people can contact them if need be and know who is who but yes, it would be a good idea to make sure the roles had explanations so that members could be a better in sight into how the management run the forum and who does what.

A format like:


Position: Content Manager
Username(s): opensourcehost (Name linked to Private Message System?)
Description: I make teh website pritty.

I can see you're passionate about your job. You boy, will go far. =P I'd love to know exactly who does what, since users are quite kept in the dark about it.

[joshuar]

Mmm... HabboxWorld, I've visited but it's not as big. It seems independant in most aspects, but still in the Habbox Empire. You know my thoughts on "General" so I won't even go into it, but I'd love to see what you said. I bet it'd spark some thoughts into my mind. =P

Ah, alriiiight! ^_^

Okay, I have hunted through my posts and found it, it was from the days I used all lowercase on this forum and magenta font :P

i thought calling them "Habbox Manager" and "Assistant Habbox Manager" would have been better. as sierk is "Habbox Owner", it shows that he owns all of Habbox. so having their titles as "(Assistant) Habbox Manager" would show they manage or help manage all of Habbox. you get me?

That was what I thought about the situation, but I believe that it was too likely to get confused with Department Managers, but I don't think that would be the case anymore.

[Pyroka]

Hmm... I find that slightly confusing. Habbox Manager seems bland to me, like General Manager does. At least it highlights they're part of Habbox though! No-one would've guessed it. xD I know where you're coming from by it though...

[joshuar]

Hmm... I find that slightly confusing. Habbox Manager seems bland to me, like General Manager does. At least it highlights they're part of Habbox though! No-one would've guessed it. xD I know where you're coming from by it though...

It was like on the day it was changed from Site Manager to General Manager, so way back in my nooby days :P I wasn't even a AGM then so it was over a year ago at least.

We could debate the name of the position for a while, but I don't think we would find a perfect name for it really. I don't think the title name is the actual problem as such, I think it's more the understanding of what each job title does. I will talk to the management about getting a list created to put on the site.

[Mr.OSH]

Mmm... HabboxWorld, I've visited but it's not as big. It seems independant in most aspects, but still in the Habbox Empire. You know my thoughts on "General" so I won't even go into it, but I'd love to see what you said. I bet it'd spark some thoughts into my mind. =P

Ah, alriiiight! ^_^



A format like:



I can see you're passionate about your job. You boy, will go far. =P I'd love to know exactly who does what, since users are quite kept in the dark about it.

They are some nice ideas and yes I'd like to think I'm passionate other wise I wouldn't do it. :P Also thanks, I think I've gone quite damn far already and I'm happy you see things that way. I'll certainly work on that page to get it up to scratch, your ideas have been very good. :) Thank you!

[GommeInc]

You must have a very boring life...
... Pointless posting much? It's a bit ignorant of you to think you can sum someones life up on a forum :rolleyes: I do alot of stuff in my life, HxF is a very minor part of it :rolleyes:

[---MAD---]

The tree of actual physical power within Habbox is quite different though:

sierk
---MAD---
nvrspk4 Joshuar
(Assistant) Forum manager, Myself
Department managers, super moderators
Senior department staff, Forum moderators
Department staff
That off course is related to the forum only. FM has more power on the forum just like the content manager has more power than the FM on the site :).

[Catzsy]

Well as long as they don't change the names to 'UberFuhrer' I am happy with whatever they are called and they could be called Princess Lemon and Queen Lemon instead of Forum Manager & GM as far as I am concerned because we all know who Elkaa and MAD are :)

[nvrspk4]

As far as the whole GM - AGM debate goes, its not like AGMs are the Administrative Assistants to the GM. Let me compare it to a corporation (which is a dangerous thing to do, I realize, so please understand the comparison to a company is solely to foster understanding, not to say that Habbox is necessarily a company.)


Owner/Board of Directors (Sierk) > President/CEO (MAD) > Regional Managers (AGMs) > Managers (Managers) > Assistant Managers > Employees (Normal Staff).

It doesn't have to be Regional either, it could be general things. For example, one person might be in charge of Product Management, but they would have teams under them, for example Microsoft might have a Zune team, an XBox Team, etc, and those would be the departments. But they'd also have a marketing team, under which there would be subdepartments.

So an AGM isn't exactly an administrative assistant, they're one level below, and they assist the GM by taking care of general areas paying specific attention to those areas. But we also do do things for MAD specifically to assist him with his workload. I get plenty of PMs from him asking me to take care of things that he doesn't have time to.


On the topic of the forum, and forum manager, yes the Forum is a very large part of Habbox. Its size may be distorted, because we are all writing this *on* the forum, and I would assume Gomme, that you use the Forum and rarely if ever the site, and RVs sometimes. However there *are* people who just use RVs and would argue that the forum is a little part of Habbox. We just never hear opinions from those people, or find out how many of them there are, because they don't use the forum. D'oh. So our view of the forum's stature in Habbox is a little distorted, and I guess we can't 100% know how the numbers of forum only users to forum + site users to site only users stack up, but I think we're viewing HxF as a little bit bigger than it really is.

Also, even though Elkaa manages the forum, and some departments run off of the forums or on the forum (IE: Competitions, VIPs) it does not mean Elkaa in any way has control over those forums. As strange as this may sound, Elkaa doesn't really control the forum, he controls its moderation. That's the position of "Forum" Manager, misnomer though it might be.

[FlyingJesus]

Can I be a manager I can get a good reference off Caleb

[Nick.]

... Pointless posting much? It's a bit ignorant of you to think you can sum someones life up on a forum :rolleyes: I do alot of stuff in my life, HxF is a very minor part of it :rolleyes:
I just thought that drawing up a staff tree of an online forum is quite a silly thing to do. :S

[---MAD---]

I'm sure you do Josh, and I'm not questioning the amount of work the AGMs do at all. I understand what you're saying, however the forum has just outgrown the website. It's not a department, it's an entity in itself. Plus, MAD is looking after the sites and I agree with that. However, he's not just looking after the sites, which is the problem.
The forum has not outgrown the website. Habbox.com is still the most popular Habbox site.

Here are some stats (from the month of January) to prove it:
Habbox.com - Hits: 23,860,724
Habboxforum.com - Hits: 22,245,298
Habboxlive.com - Hits: 3,145,671
Habboxworld.com - Hits: 1,072,689