Are infractions being scrapped?

[Pat McGroin]

*REMOVED* ...are infractions being removed?

Edited by Elkaa (Forum Manager): Some content removed.

[Paulio]

I don't think it's final yet but the forum management are apperntly discussing it, yeah.

[GommeInc]

I do hope they bring back notes, they'll be perfect for the forum. Infractions are only good for small forums, while notes will leave, well, notes for other moderators, which is far more useful.

[Paulio]

I agree, it was miles better when we used to just leave usernotes. It stops people disliking moderators because their infracting them all the time.


I do hope they bring back notes, they'll be perfect for the forum. Infractions are only good for small forums, while notes will leave, well, notes for other moderators, which is far more useful.

[Pat McGroin]

I agree, it was miles better when we used to just leave usernotes. It stops people disliking moderators because their infracting them all the time.

Usernotes were annoying though, it's like:

Username:
Date:
Reason:
Link:

or something and it was annoying to fill out.

[Paulio]

You don't need to put the forum name as, it's in their profile.

All I used to do was

Avoided forum filter.

Post edited.


Usernotes were annoying though, it's like:

Username:
Date:
Reason:
Link:

or something and it was annoying to fill out.

[Pat McGroin]

You don't need to put the forum name as, it's in their profile.

All I used to do was

Avoided forum filter.

Post edited.

The layout of it was something like that though.

[Agesilaus]

Hmm...

I do hope they bring back notes, they'll be perfect for the forum. Infractions are only good for small forums, while notes will leave, well, notes for other moderators, which is far more useful.
Infractions are for any forum, especially bigger forums. It is far more informative for both sides, and much easier for us to determine the level of behaviour. The usernotes should only be used for specific issues that can't be recorded via the infraction system (Such as bans, the editing of profiles, and avatar/signature contact information). With the system, we are able to determine evidence is 100% legit if content needs to be edited out of a post, as the system copies exactly what the post contains into a thread for us to refer to with all the other handy information it gives us automatically.

[---MAD---]

I do hope they bring back notes, they'll be perfect for the forum. Infractions are only good for small forums, while notes will leave, well, notes for other moderators, which is far more useful.
Its actually the other way around usually because smaller forums usually are close friends who use the forum and also much easier to manage :).

With user notes you cannot appeal for them to be removed as you cannot see them. You also don't know who has given you them and when a member ends up banned, they aren't usually sure why or for what exact reasons.

We never said we will scrap the infraction system, you have been misinformed I am afraid.

[Agesilaus]

do hope they bring back notes, they'll be perfect for the forum. Infractions are only good for small forums, while notes will leave, well, notes for other moderators, which is far more useful.

With user notes you cannot appeal for them to be removed as you cannot see them. You also don't know who has given you them and when a member ends up banned, they aren't usually sure why or for what exact reasons.

I agree with MAD's response. You guys can have a chance to say what should happen with the infraction system's note, and if it comes through, it will be ignored, you can't do that with usernotes. The reference in the User CP is for you and that is there for your convenience, so you know what you're being warned for and keep track of yourself as well as having a great idea on why you've been banned if you do get banned.

[Jamesy]

Hmm...

Infractions are for any forum, especially bigger forums. It is far more informative for both sides, and much easier for us to determine the level of behaviour. The usernotes should only be used for specific issues that can't be recorded via the infraction system (Such as bans, the editing of profiles, and avatar/signature contact information). With the system, we are able to determine evidence is 100% legit if content needs to be edited out of a post, as the system copies exactly what the post contains into a thread for us to refer to with all the other handy information it gives us automatically.

Well, actually bigger forums ban you instead of infracting. 24 hours, a week etc.

[Agesilaus]

Well, actually bigger forums ban you instead of infracting. 24 hours, a week etc.

That has got to do with how the forum is run specifically, it doesn't have anything to do with the infraction system. My point was for the infraction system being used compared to using usernotes on a big forum. However, this could be an idea for the management to take into consideration, but I don't think a lot of people would like to see it implemented on Habbox.

www.computerforum.com is quite big and they use the infraction system, but they don't give you as much of a chance as Habbox does. They only give you a few infractions then you're out. But, they still use the infraction system to monitor behaviour.

[lew!]

I dont care what happens, Infactions are there to tell us that we've done something wrong,
and its good that we can see what the reason is etc and after a while we get banned, the thing that annoys me is that a few moderators (not naming anybody) abuse their powers and tend to go a bit over the top, as if its a contest to see who can infract the most people. Also, People say that they have 'vendettas' against certain mods, This is the case only because the moderators make it hard for themselves, I couldnt care less if somone infracted me for swearing, But for something like posting a picture of yourself in a thread that has the title; POST A PICTURE OF YOURSELF and everybody else is, whats the point?

[The Professor]

If I read the thread correctly there are still some fundamentals to be worked out before we get the details sorted, so don't hold your breath because you'll be dead by the time the changes arrive ;)

Edited by Elkaa (Forum Manager): Some content removed.

[jesus]

Just to clarify - sierk has proposed a conglomeration of usernotes and infractions. We are clamping down on more serious rule breaking and easing up on the lighter rule breaking. I'm not sure if I can disclose what are in these catagories but I'm sure you will all find out soon enough. :)

[Catzsy]

Wow! Nice to see such harmony in the moderation department :P

Infractions are much more efficient and easier to use than user notes except in the hands of anybody trigger happy as they should be used with common sense. As MAD said you can also see what has been said about you so it's more open and honest. The appeal against them is also pretty well organised and again you can see the result.

[Orangeesh]

Management and the moderation department are still discussing whether to make some changes to the current system.

So yes and no. Infractions will not be scrapped either way.

[GommeInc]

Its actually the other way around usually because smaller forums usually are close friends who use the forum and also much easier to manage :).

With user notes you cannot appeal for them to be removed as you cannot see them. You also don't know who has given you them and when a member ends up banned, they aren't usually sure why or for what exact reasons.

We never said we will scrap the infraction system, you have been misinformed I am afraid.
I am sure you'll agree that one major problem which everyone dislikes about the infraction system is that you can see what moderator gave you it and therefore disruptions will accure. Until you sort out a proper guide for moderators to follow so that they give accurate and sensible reasons (which it seems they fail at), then the user system is best, because not only can members not know about warnings (other than a guess from red writing on their posts), but other moderators can learn that the post has been dealt with and not be given multiple warnings; plus other moderators will be able to see what the member is capable of, which is where it becomes useful on a small forum. You know every member and can talk to them directly, while an infraction system which is an indirect approach, is something you'll see on a big forum.


[COLOR=#000000]www.computerforum.com is quite big and they use the infraction system, but they don't give you as much of a chance as Habbox does. They only give you a few infractions then you're out. But, they still use the infraction system to monitor behaviour.
Habbox have banned members who have only been infracted once, with little to no reasons that actually make sense. But I suppose everyone has different ways of moderating and administrating, which is a problem it would appear.

[Agesilaus]

Habbox have banned members who have only been infracted once, with little to no reasons that actually make sense. But I suppose everyone has different ways of moderating and administrating, which is a problem it would appear.

Within a specific reason. I'm talking about policy. The rules of the system. I'm unaware of the historical times, but right now 1 infraction for something minor compared to earning a ban is not going to get you banned, or shouldn't. Many people know that. It depends on what the circumstances are in regards to the offense. I am sure to speculate that a lot of people now would not have conflicted with a ban because of 1 infraction. There would have to be an alternative reason which had been taken into far more significant consideration than the amount of infractions.

[Elkaa]

Firstly, I'm extremely disappointed that this has been leaked out of the Forum Moderators section.

As for the infraction system and usernotes, nothing is decided yet, so nothing said in this thread is set in stone.

[Dan2nd]

Firstly, I'm extremely disappointed that this has been leaked out of the Forum Moderators section.

As for the infraction system and usernotes, nothing is decided yet, so nothing said in this thread is set in stone.

uh oh Elkaa is mad we better start behaving :D


erm I don't really care whether infractions change or not as I've only ever had one and it was aggggggges ago and has since expired =D

[GommeInc]

Within a specific reason. I'm talking about policy. The rules of the system. I'm unaware of the historical times, but right now 1 infraction for something minor compared to earning a ban is not going to get you banned, or shouldn't. Many people know that. It depends on what the circumstances are in regards to the offense. I am sure to speculate that a lot of people now would not have conflicted with a ban because of 1 infraction. There would have to be an alternative reason which had been taken into far more significant consideration than the amount of infractions.
Even though the reasons are completely barmy? I doubt random reasons for a ban from 1 infraction is a justified cause for a ban. It just gives the management/admins a bad name, in fact I believe it has. I don't see why the management need to make themselves seem different to other members. Management as far as I am aware at least, are human beings. So why suggest that when there is a problem, the management know best? When they're just as dumb and stupid as the rest of us :D


uh oh Elkaa is mad we better start behaving :D


erm I don't really care whether infractions changeor not as I've only ever had one and it was aggggggges ago and has since expired =D
It's only about the infraction and user note systems... It's not like someone has given out passwords and top secret plans that will drastically change space and time... So I don't see why you should be disappointed. Habbox Forum is a forum, not an organisation with an alter-ego.

[Catzsy]

uh oh Elkaa is mad we better start behaving :D


erm I don't really care whether infractions change or not as I've only ever had one and it was aggggggges ago and has since expired =D

Well I do think he has a right to be mad. What is set in stone is that new systems/initiatives discussed on any staff forum should only be discussed within that forum so that a decision can be made by the appropriate person at what they consider the appropriate time. This is a fundimental principle of being allowed to become staff in the first place particularly at Smod level.
For all we know Elkaa could have put it to the forum to discuss as well before implementation. He has been let down here.

[Agesilaus]

Even though the reasons are completely barmy? I doubt random reasons for a ban from 1 infraction is a justified cause for a ban.No, like I said, there must have been another circumstance which did not link with the infraction to justify a ban. The only other 'random reason(s)' would be the autoban list or spamming the forum or some internally serious reason where no one ever finds out, but claims reasons from their own pocket to fit the situation and say it's 'unfair'. Thus, having nothing to do with the infraction count on the member.


So why suggest that when there is a problem, the management know best? When they're just as dumb and stupid as the rest of us :DDon't think I ever took my last post that far as suggesting exactly what is right and what is wrong. I only gave a vast range of speculation containing logical possibilities. Not everything is fair and I understand that. I only have some control over what's fair in accordance with the instructions I've been given.

[Orangeesh]

Well I do think he has a right to be mad. What is set in stone is that new systems/initiatives discussed on any staff forum should only be discussed within that forum so that a decision can be made by the appropriate person at what they consider the appropriate time. This is a fundimental principle of being allowed to become staff in the first place particularly at Smod level.
For all we know Elkaa could have put it to the forum to discuss as well before implementation. He has been let down here.


Is that implying anything?

Of course he is going to be mad, Elkaa gave us (moderation department) a chance to discuss with management what they have planned and they expected us to not leak it and be trusted with it as it is one of the basic rules.

[Dan2nd]

Well I do think he has a right to be mad. What is set in stone is that new systems/initiatives discussed on any staff forum should only be discussed within that forum so that a decision can be made by the appropriate person at what they consider the appropriate time. This is a fundimental principle of being allowed to become staff in the first place particularly at Smod level.
For all we know Elkaa could have put it to the forum to discuss as well before implementation. He has been let down here.



Of course he is going to be mad, Elkaa gave us (moderation department) a chance to discuss with management what they have planned and they expected us to not leak it and be trusted with it as it is one of the basic rules.

Erm I was only joking :S

Of course I know alot of stuff dicussed in the staff forums are supposed to be kept hush hush I was staff once.

[Catzsy]

Is that implying anything?

Of course he is going to be mad, Elkaa gave us (moderation department) a chance to discuss with management what they have planned and they expected us to not leak it and be trusted with it as it is one of the basic rules.

No just saying the higher up the food chain you are the more you are expected to be diplomatic, discrete and knowledgable of staff rules.

[GommeInc]

No, like I said, there must have been another circumstance which did not link with the infraction to justify a ban. The only other 'random reason(s)' would be the autoban list or spamming the forum or some internally serious reason where no one ever finds out, but claims reasons from their own pocket to fit the situation and say it's 'unfair'. Thus, having nothing to do with the infraction count on the member.
The other circumstances should of been marked down somewhere. Linking to a circumstance which wasn't warned/infracted is just an excuse to ban someone, really...


Don't think I ever took my last post that far as suggesting exactly what is right and what is wrong. I only gave a vast range of speculation containing logical possibilities. Not everything is fair and I understand that. I only have some control over what's fair in accordance with the instructions I've been given.
I was mentioning how it seems the management seem to think they have a strong understanding of things. They are afterall around the same age mark as the rest of us, yet they insist their knowledge is better. They have power, obviously and understanding of how a change will work, but will they know it would work?

[Pyroka]

Infractions should stay, unless the Management are willing to employ more Moderators. I don't see it working any other way, because of the apparent hassle this 'usernote' system is. I'd prefer Infractions to stay personally, they're easy to understand however very much abused at the same time. It's hard to meet the middle ground with this issue.

A mix of Infractions & Usernotes could be something.

[Crazy Bartender]

I think they should just stay. Because if a user gets a unfair 'Usernote' they should have the ability to appeal it and scrap it from their record.

But Infractions are very annoying.

[Agesilaus]

The other circumstances should of been marked down somewhere. Linking to a circumstance which wasn't warned/infracted is just an excuse to ban someone, really...
Depends on what that circumstance is to the moderator/administrator banning the member. It's a bit hard to forward claims of complete unfairness because the reason wasn't divulged to the public or because certain people remain in the dark of the reason(s) why or what they did to deserve earning the ban. And I have already acknowledged that all bans might not be deemed as 'fair' by some people, but that doesn't mean all of them are.

Let's discuss examples and say someone decides to use the forum to produce a small quantity of posts, then uses inappropriate language which is sufficient enough to provoke a warning/infraction and then comes back on later to do something serious like majorly spamming the forum with a real life image of someone else, an image which is high in disturbing detail and targets a specific member of the forum (bullying in other words), it's only logical to permanently ban because the intentions of that individual is to cause trouble profoundly, and refuse to interact with the community in a civilised manner more than anything.