Feedback about the feedback forum

[jrh2002]

FEEDBACK about the feedback forum.

I am getting a little frustrated with the feedback forum and lack of input and discussion from the people that matter. It seems higher management of the people who make decisions rarely comment and give good reason why an idea or improvement can or can't be made even if its for a trial run.
It seems like management don't want to try anything new no matter how good a suggestion it is. If something new is tried and is failing they dont seem to admit a mistake and just carry on with something so they are not proved wrong. We all make mistakes so its no big deal to admit it.

People have been asking for a public debate forum/sub-forum for a very long time and they have been ignored.

I see NVR and Elkaa replying quite a bit but nobody else.
When I see Mad and Sierk both online i check what they are doing and quite often its reading the feedback but we still get no reply :s are senior management not allowed to reply to certain things? or do they just hope the threads go away? I did see ---Mad--- reading the thread by Mentor about the poll in his god thread but still no reply.
If nobody at the top is willing to debate adding or even removing or altering forums then I would hope you will give Elkaa full control on this so we have somebody who has the power to discuss forum issues instead of keep quiet incase they end up looking silly and liking an idea only to not be allowed to trial it.

There was a time Kardan had an idea and Mad did a poll on it and it was a massive vote for a change and then it never went ahead :s the only reason I can see the change never happened was Sierk over ruled him so can see why people are scared to comment on an change.


Feedback forum moderation.
I think the moderation here is very very poor. The only time i see one of the named mods do anything here is when MAD locks a thread even if it is feedback and he doesnt like it :s maybe this will get locked because its not to senior managements liking.

You let people go so far off topic and also theres lots of rule breaks and bullying which usually just gets ignored :s the only reason i can see that its allowed to go so far off topic is so people stop replying and the thread dies so takes the heat off senior management and gets them out of replying.


I would love senior management to get involved much more and if you dont have the time give elkaa full control to run trial forums and make minor changes without having to go through people who seem scared of change.

How can so many forum members be wrong on things all the time? all we want is a good reason why our ideas and changes are not good and not worth changing even as a trial.


:eusa_wall

[GommeInc]

I completely agree with the lack of communication from management. It's one reason the council is/was a flop, because they simply do not like change nor like communcating with people. If they're not allowed to, I would like to know the reason. Because I can't think of one :P A successful Habbo Fansite is open. You know mostly what is going on and you get feedback from anyone in charge. I would like to see news complaints handled by the news manager, not really MAD because it isn't his position to do so until the News Manager finds himself out of bounds.

[-:Undertaker:-]

One thing that is wrong with the Feedback Forum is that threads are closed/move to complaints all the time. As far as I know FEEDBACK = WHAT YOU THINK OF A SITE. So why is it there is a Complaints forum?

[jrh2002]

One thing that is wrong with the Feedback Forum is that threads are closed/move to complaints all the time. As far as I know FEEDBACK = WHAT YOU THINK OF A SITE. So why is it there is a Complaints forum?

I think the complaint forum is good if you do have a complaint but when theres an issue that bothers alot of members it should be feedback so we can all post our views but before we get to reply its thrown into complaints and the only reason i can see the reason for that is to keep the rest of the members quiet? maybe we should all make individual complaints next time it happens.

Elkaa has added a poll to the debates thread :) I think he will be a strong forum manager who can argue his case on improvement.
http://www.habboxforum.com/showthread.php?t=466733


Hiya Mad :angel1:


http://www.habboxforum.com/images/ranks/siteman5zl.gif
http://www.habboxforum.com/images/reputation/reputation_pos.gifhttp://www.habboxforum.com/images/reputation/reputation_pos.gifhttp://www.habboxforum.com/images/reputation/reputation_pos.gifhttp://www.habboxforum.com/images/reputation/reputation_pos.gifhttp://www.habboxforum.com/images/reputation/reputation_pos.gifhttp://www.habboxforum.com/images/reputation/reputation_highpos.gifhttp://www.habboxforum.com/images/reputation/reputation_highpos.gifhttp://www.habboxforum.com/images/reputation/reputation_highpos.gifhttp://www.habboxforum.com/images/reputation/reputation_highpos.gifhttp://www.habboxforum.com/images/reputation/reputation_highpos.gifhttp://www.habboxforum.com/images/reputation/reputation_highpos.gif

---MAD--- http://www.habboxforum.com/images/statusicon/user_online.gif
General Manager
http://www.habboxforum.com/image.php?u=5933&dateline=1186664119Last Activity: Today 02:53 PM
Viewing Thread Feedback about the feedback forum @ 02:53 PM

[GommeInc]

Surely as Forum Manager he could add it himself? It is, afterall, his department and doesn't effect anyone else unless he gets another department to help...

[jrh2002]

Surely as Forum Manager he could add it himself? It is, afterall, his department and doesn't effect anyone else unless he gets another department to help...

I would hope so but I remember that if you wanted to add a new forum etc you had to run it past the powers that be first. This might have changed now but if it has not changed then it should do. Why would you want to be forum manager if all you were was a puppet for general management? Forum manager should be here to run the forum as he pleases within reason but any massive changes I would agree need to be discussed.

[Slowpoke]

I would hope so but I remember that if you wanted to add a new forum etc you had to run it past the powers that be first. This might have changed now but if it has not changed then it should do. Why would you want to be forum manager if all you were was a puppet for general management? Forum manager should be here to run the forum as he pleases within reason but any massive changes I would agree need to be discussed.

Yeah, he's treated more as a Head of Moderation than a Forum Manager which is a shame since Elkaa is more than capable of doing what he should be entitled to with the job that he has.

2ND EDIT: He's replying now :)

[GommeInc]

I would hope so but I remember that if you wanted to add a new forum etc you had to run it past the powers that be first. This might have changed now but if it has not changed then it should do. Why would you want to be forum manager if all you were was a puppet for general management? Forum manager should be here to run the forum as he pleases within reason but any massive changes I would agree need to be discussed.
You wouldn't be a Forum Manager then. You would be a Forum Technician if you had run stuff by General Management first. As long as the members, VIP members and staff agree, then that's all you have to care about. GMs etc don't need to give their opinion, they're the minority.

[jrh2002]

Yeah, he's treated more as a Head of Moderation than a Forum Manager which is a shame since Elkaa is more than capable of doing what he should be entitled to with the job that he has.

2ND EDIT: He's replying now :)

If he can't make decisions on new forums etc I think yoiur right. King Moderator lol I am sure he will want to be allowed to manage and it would be a great shame if he felt he was not allowed to do the job properly. only time will tell.


You wouldn't be a Forum Manager then. You would be a Forum Technician if you had run stuff by General Management first. As long as the members, VIP members and staff agree, then that's all you have to care about. GMs etc don't need to give their opinion, they're the minority.

We do hear the excuse by some high up people when they are accused of not doing so much that we dont see what they do. I know Mad works really hard and seen it for myself but they cant use that excuse when it suits them and not on other occasions. I hope the forum manager will fight for change if he thinks it will benefit the place.

[---MAD---]

One thing that is wrong with the Feedback Forum is that threads are closed/move to complaints all the time. As far as I know FEEDBACK = WHAT YOU THINK OF A SITE. So why is it there is a Complaints forum?
The complaints forum is also part of feedback which is why its a sub forum. If we feel something is more a complaint than feedback, we will move it their and address the thread starter :).

You wouldn't be a Forum Manager then. You would be a Forum Technician if you had run stuff by General Management first. As long as the members, VIP members and staff agree, then that's all you have to care about. GMs etc don't need to give their opinion, they're the minority.
I think whatever title you give, someone will always disagree. Making elkaa forum tech is inaccurate because that means he does the same job as Jin which is totally incorrect. FM manages the moderating department and makes changes to the forum once approved by higher management just like the HxHD manager deals with hxhd staff and if he/she wants to change something with the help desk itself, has to approve the change by management.

Managers are there for daily running of a department (which is why they are giving the manager title). Changes, however have to go through the GMs. The reason for this is because managers change quite often therefore if every time a new manager was put in place, changes will be made forwards and backwards and things wouldn't settle and people would get frustrated (IE one FM likes having lots of forums. The next doesn't and the one after like lots of category's).

Sierk also has to approve things because after all its his site and things go his way and he is the one that has the biggest stake in Habbox where as the FM for example is a voluntary position and the FM doesn't lose or gain anything from the site(s) just like the rest of management. Sierk has been with Habbox since the start and knows what works and what doesn't and always has the final say. He also decides which direction to take the site (along with advice from GMs).

In regards to the feedback forum (which is what the thread was about). We do not necessarily reply to all feedback given. We reply where we want to make something clear or want more information about the topic. Changes are not made within a click, some take a lot longer than others as they have to be discussed and it's pros/cons highlighted from all sides. We cannot reply to all threads mainly because we have other things to sort out and get on with on Habbox.

[jrh2002]

The complaints forum is also part of feedback which is why its a sub forum. If we feel something is more a complaint than feedback, we will move it their and address the thread starter :).

I think whatever title you give, someone will always disagree. Making elkaa forum tech is inaccurate because that means he does the same job as Jin which is totally incorrect. FM manages the moderating department and makes changes to the forum once approved by higher management just like the HxHD manager deals with hxhd staff and if he/she wants to change something with the help desk itself, has to approve the change by management.

Managers are there for daily running of a department (which is why they are giving the manager title). Changes, however have to go through the GMs. The reason for this is because managers change quite often therefore if every time a new manager was put in place, changes will be made forwards and backwards and things wouldn't settle and people would get frustrated (IE one FM likes having lots of forums. The next doesn't and the one after like lots of category's).

Sierk also has to approve things because after all its his site and things go his way and he is the one that has the biggest stake in Habbox where as the FM for example is a voluntary position and the FM doesn't lose or gain anything from the site(s) just like the rest of management. Sierk has been with Habbox since the start and knows what works and what doesn't and always has the final say. He also decides which direction to take the site (along with advice from GMs).

In regards to the feedback forum (which is what the thread was about). We do not necessarily reply to all feedback given. We reply where we want to make something clear or want more information about the topic. Changes are not made within a click, some take a lot longer than others as they have to be discussed and it's pros/cons highlighted from all sides. We cannot reply to all threads mainly because we have other things to sort out and get on with on Habbox.

Of course Sierk has the final say but even he will admit hes not always right :)

There is lots of feedback that gets ignored and surely interacting with the habbox community is a way of keeping people happy? You wonder why people can get very negative and I see that because of the lack of input by higher management. We dont expect you to reply to every thread but it would be nice to see a reply to the ones that matter. Time and time again you see people get frustrated at the lack of response and it ends up seeing people get so angry they end up in trouble. A response by elkaa saying he would put it forward to you and sierk? then get back to us with your response?

While you are here will you allow a public debate sub-forum? if the poll wins? does sierk have to agree?

Any comments on the lack of moderation in the feedback forums? If you dont have time to reply to feedback then is that why the moderation is so bad? I cant stand people going off topic and ruining the feedback and think its far more of a crime to ruin such valuable input.

[Adzeh]

With regards to Senior Management not posting alot in this forum, I think a perfectly valid reason would be that we have nothing to say? I know I haven't really been posting in this forum lately because I don't really have much to input into the threads. For me to post something, would be posting for the sake of it, which is completely pointless in my opinion.

If I have something that I want to say, or I think will be good for the thread/discussion, then I'll post it; I'm sure that goes for the other AGM's as well.

[Slowpoke]

With regards to Senior Management not posting alot in this forum, I think a perfectly valid reason would be that we have nothing to say? I know I haven't really been posting in this forum lately because I don't really have much to input into the threads. For me to post something, would be posting for the sake of it, which is completely pointless in my opinion.

If I have something that I want to say, or I think will be good for the thread/discussion, then I'll post it; I'm sure that goes for the other AGM's as well.

The majority of the threads that get created in here are asking the (A)GMs for their opinion on something so how you can say it would be pointless to reply is beyond me.

[jrh2002]

With regards to Senior Management not posting alot in this forum, I think a perfectly valid reason would be that we have nothing to say? I know I haven't really been posting in this forum lately because I don't really have much to input into the threads. For me to post something, would be posting for the sake of it, which is completely pointless in my opinion.

If I have something that I want to say, or I think will be good for the thread/discussion, then I'll post it; I'm sure that goes for the other AGM's as well.

So on issues asking for a new forum you have nothing to say? so your not bothered if we have a public debate forum or not? surely you must be for or against it? maybe elkaa should add a who cares to the poll.

If you dont have anything to say on issues can you explain why threads are let go so far off topic? you are one of the named moderators for this forum so must take some of the blame for lack or respect for many serious threads even by some of your very own staff.

[---MAD---]

Of course Sierk has the final say but even he will admit hes not always right :)

There is lots of feedback that gets ignored and surely interacting with the habbox community is a way of keeping people happy? You wonder why people can get very negative and I see that because of the lack of input by higher management. We dont expect you to reply to every thread but it would be nice to see a reply to the ones that matter. Time and time again you see people get frustrated at the lack of response and it ends up seeing people get so angry they end up in trouble. A response by elkaa saying he would put it forward to you and sierk? then get back to us with your response?

While you are here will you allow a public debate sub-forum? if the poll wins? does sierk have to agree?

Any comments on the lack of moderation in the feedback forums? If you dont have time to reply to feedback then is that why the moderation is so bad? I cant stand people going off topic and ruining the feedback and think its far more of a crime to ruin such valuable input.
Off course he will admit to mistakes as everyone obviously makes mistakes. No-one is perfect and we all know that.

In regards to a public debate forum, that won't happen. We have said that many times now. The main reason for this is we want to only have a few debates running at once to increase the quality of the debates. People can suggest debates in the sticky and we will make that debate when theres a chance. If it was an open debate forum, there would be loads and loads of debates in there with 2 or 3 posts in each.

In regards to having it as a sub forum, there are some things to think about such as what if a debate made in the parent forum is already in the sub forum?

People can easily have debates about a topic in the appropriate forum (ie xbox vs ps3 debate in the console forum) or FF vs IE debate in the tech forum). We don't mind that.

[jrh2002]

Off course he will admit to mistakes as everyone obviously makes mistakes. No-one is perfect and we all know that.

In regards to a public debate forum, that won't happen. We have said that many times now. The main reason for this is we want to only have a few debates running at once to increase the quality of the debates. People can suggest debates in the sticky and we will make that debate when theres a chance. If it was an open debate forum, there would be loads and loads of debates in there with 2 or 3 posts in each.

People can easily have debates about a topic in the appropriate forum (ie xbox vs ps3 debate in the console forum) or FF vs IE debate in the tech forum). We don't mind that.


So the strong debates that rise above the pathetic ones dont count? that can be said about interesting and not so interesting posts all over the forum. We are not saying kill your debates forum in which you always pick the hot topics people care about :rolleyes: so elkaa posted a poll for no reason? i really feel sorry for him having to deal with people who dont want change even for the better.

Elkaa for head moderator :(

[Slowpoke]

In regards to a public debate forum, that won't happen. We have said that many times now. The main reason for this is we want to only have a few debates running at once to increase the quality of the debates. People can suggest debates in the sticky and we will make that debate when theres a chance. If it was an open debate forum, there would be loads and loads of debates in there with 2 or 3 posts in each.


I disagree with the way you've done that. You've just said infront of everyone that it won't happen when Elkaa has said he's going to try and see if it can be added. Would it have not been more appropriate to PM him about it as you've just disregarded everything he's said? The way I see it, you've just undermined him.

[GommeInc]

I think whatever title you give, someone will always disagree. Making elkaa forum tech is inaccurate because that means he does the same job as Jin which is totally incorrect. FM manages the moderating department and makes changes to the forum once approved by higher management just like the HxHD manager deals with hxhd staff and if he/she wants to change something with the help desk itself, has to approve the change by management.
Forum Manager seems inaccurate too, because he's restricted to what he can or can't do. Judging by the feedback in this forum, the Forum Manager should listen more to members than General Management, unless otherwise stated that something is restricted, and give a good reason when asked, not 'This is being sorted' which is irritating really.


Managers are there for daily running of a department (which is why they are giving the manager title). Changes, however have to go through the GMs. The reason for this is because managers change quite often therefore if every time a new manager was put in place, changes will be made forwards and backwards and things wouldn't settle and people would get frustrated (IE one FM likes having lots of forums. The next doesn't and the one after like lots of category's).
You solve this by telling them that any changes must benefit the community, not themselves or their staff. The community is larger than their staff in any shape or form, so any changes should be in favour of members and users. This is why changes like a catagory on ClubTropica went down badly because the majority didn't care or were completely against it. The excuse "close the catagory using the +/- wasn't even a valid excuse, because the numbers on the catagory were so pityful that it was crazy to even think keeping it. Then comes the rep system/signature changes, people want it tweaked a little bit so that you can get more rep power through posts/rep but make it harder to rep the same person again. I'm yet to see that put into action, because the majority are for it. The signature changes went through badly. What should of happened was, an announcement/e-mail/mass PM that a change maybe made, review the current system, tell them of the change, take it down and change it ASAP making the changes run smoothly.People were told to wait till the morning which, although is fine, isn't exactly a good way to go about it :P Especially when people did ask why it had to be done that way. Again, lack of real communication. It was like a robot telling us what to do!

I could go on for ages, but best not :P


Sierk also has to approve things because after all its his site and things go his way and he is the one that has the biggest stake in Habbox where as the FM for example is a voluntary position and the FM doesn't lose or gain anything from the site(s) just like the rest of management. Sierk has been with Habbox since the start and knows what works and what doesn't and always has the final say. He also decides which direction to take the site (along with advice from GMs).
It depends, some people do lose stuff through Habbox. Like hardwork put through the getting removed for something. It has happened a few times. As long as sierk directs the site in a way which won't get him hunted down by people, then the community will be happy. There's a good motion for a site, and a bad motion for a site. You get in everything, businesses, companies, fan sites and groups/charities.


In regards to the feedback forum (which is what the thread was about). We do not necessarily reply to all feedback given. We reply where we want to make something clear or want more information about the topic. Changes are not made within a click, some take a lot longer than others as they have to be discussed and it's pros/cons highlighted from all sides. We cannot reply to all threads mainly because we have other things to sort out and get on with on Habbox.
I'm sure the whole point of a feedback forum is to post feedback, and get an opinion/reply to the feedback from someone of who it concerns. That's the whole point of a feedback forum.

[Adzeh]

So on issues asking for a new forum you have nothing to say? so your not bothered if we have a public debate forum or not? surely you must be for or against it? maybe elkaa should add a who cares to the poll.

If you dont have anything to say on issues can you explain why threads are let go so far off topic? you are one of the named moderators for this forum so must take some of the blame for lack or respect for many serious threads even by some of your very own staff.

The new forum proposals are mainly for things like games etc... (or at least the ones I have seen are). Since I don't have any interest in online games, I don't particularly care whether a new forum is created or not. If enough people reply to the thread saying they want that forum, then it is down to the Forum Manager or GM to create that forum, or give a good reason as to why not. It is not worth me posting to say "no we shouldn't have this forum because I don't like it..." as that is arogant, selfish, and unneccesary.

True, threads go off topic, but that is often because of the fact that it has been discussed so far that there are no new, relevant points to be made. Fair enough that isn't much of an excuse, but obvious off topic posting is dealt with as much as we possibly can.

[Slowpoke]

The new forum proposals are mainly for things like games etc... (or at least the ones I have seen are). Since I don't have any interest in online games, I don't particularly care whether a new forum is created or not. If enough people reply to the thread saying they want that forum, then it is down to the Forum Manager or GM to create that forum, or give a good reason as to why not. It is not worth me posting to say "no we shouldn't have this forum because I don't like it..." as that is arogant, selfish, and unneccesary.

Yes but your imput is still valued. As an AGM, you should know what will benifit the forum regardless of whether you like it or not.

[jrh2002]

The new forum proposals are mainly for things like games etc... (or at least the ones I have seen are). Since I don't have any interest in online games, I don't particularly care whether a new forum is created or not. If enough people reply to the thread saying they want that forum, then it is down to the Forum Manager or GM to create that forum, or give a good reason as to why not. It is not worth me posting to say "no we shouldn't have this forum because I don't like it..." as that is arogant, selfish, and unneccesary.


So as Mad has just said he wont allow a public debate sub-forum you are calling him arrogant, selfish and unneccesary? I cant say i agree with you on that :eusa_whis
I do understand that you cant reply to everything and I am not suggesting the FM, Every AGM, the GM and owner comment on everything but surely at least one or 2 from that group could help a debate? if all management ignore it even when it concerns them (yes they do) you wonder why so many people get frustrated



True, threads go off topic, but that is often because of the fact that it has been discussed so far that there are no new, relevant points to be made. Fair enough that isn't much of an excuse, but obvious off topic posting is dealt with as much as we possibly can.

Look at all the other forums and see how the mods deal with rule breakers :) surely the feedback forum shoul;d be modded the same if not better? the only edits i see are from mad when he closes a thread or moves it and not on individual rule breaking posts (apartfrom catzsy's).

[Adzeh]

No I'm not calling him arrogant, because if will have a good reason for not allowing a public debate forum, not the fact that he doesn't like debates.

Crunch, my input maybe valued, but that does not make it valid. I'm not about to post in a "lets have a forum for *insert game name here*" thread, unless I was 100% sure in my mind that there were a significant amount of people who would not use that forum; which would mean that this particular forum would not be good for the community.

At jrh: I've never ignored anything that was related directly to me, unless it would have resulted me flying off at someone and probably being fired for misconduct :) (which nearly happened once). I can't speak for the other AGMs on this, if they ignore something relevant to them, they will have a good reason.

[jrh2002]

its a public debate sub forum that is hidden out of the way and just to stop us messing up the thread asking for ideas on official habbox debates.
We can go in the discuss anything to debate there but it seems you get a more mature response when out of the way in the debates forum. I would love to hear the good reason for not allowing it instead of being told to debate elsewhere.

I can understand that sometimes you could fly off the handle because its just how I feel when i get fobbed off with poor excuses about an issue that from the poll most the members and alot of staff would want.

I have asked a few people questions by PM and await their response before I decide on my own hx future. I want to be part of a great site but feel like tony blair, gordon brown and saddam hussein are listening to the very people who have got them where they are today and just ignoring them :( its a very sad state of affairs.

[Recursion]

The forum isn't user based anymore, we don't get the things we like on it, its up to the ****** senior management nowadays.

[Catzsy]

I really can't see the problem with allowing something like this that is valid if there is enough demand on a trial. What's the worst that could happen if we had a new debate forum? It would not be continued after the trial. Its not as if the sun is going to fall from the sky or anybody is going to lose 'control' over their positions on the forum. :S