Moderation Changes Cont.

[Nixt]

Please leave your feedback here and continue from the other thread, as Hollywood closed his (http://www.habboxforum.com/showthread.php?t=469657) :(.


But what I'm saying is you don't know the changes to how infractions and warnings are issued now. :eusa_doh:Changes to how Infractions and Warnings are given don't appear to be the main problem, because as you say, we don't know about those changes... My issue is with the robotic nature of automatic banning when I believe there should be a human input. If the changes to how Infractions and Warnings are given will explain the reasoning behind having this method of banning then it should be shared, I don't see any reason why it should be kept secret.

[GommeInc]

Carrying on :P

Anything in a guide is visible through the works that a Moderator does. From what Jesus/Jamie said, we won't see how infractions and warnings will be given out. We will, because infractions and warnings are visible to a member/members, and it'll give members some idea of what they do and what they've been told. Otherwise it'll just be considered working solo "/

[today]

Its hard to explain without giving aload of information away >.<

You'll see us give them out, correct, you'll see why sometimes, correct. But what you dont know is what the infractions mean and what "counts". Or how the infraction/warning page is setout. ect.

[GommeInc]

We will when feedback from members roll out after they've been banned or issued warnings, nothing is kept secret for long around here.

[today]

But once again that only tells you what you already know, they was banned for breaking rules, yes they may say which rules. And probally supply information on what content was removed ect.

But it still doesnt give inside information on the moderation guide, forum, how we are to moderate, what needs editing, what we let slip, what to report, where to report, how to report.

[Nixt]

Its hard to explain without giving aload of information away >.<

You'll see us give them out, correct, you'll see why sometimes, correct. But what you dont know is what the infractions mean and what "counts". Or how the infraction/warning page is setout. ect.

Well I would hope people know what Infractions mean otherwise they won't have much of an idea why they got them :-P! If by what "counts" you mean what deserves an Infraction, people will very quickly gauge an idea of what "counts". When it comes to how the Infraction and Warning page is set out, I thought it was just a list of Infractions where you can choose one, decide whether it's a warning or a full Infraction, an admin note and personalised message?!

[jesus]

Carrying on :P

Anything in a guide is visible through the works that a Moderator does. From what Jesus/Jamie said, we won't see how infractions and warnings will be given out. We will, because infractions and warnings are visible to a member/members, and it'll give members some idea of what they do and what they've been told. Otherwise it'll just be considered working solo "/YOU CAN'T SEE THE METHOD THAT WE DO IT, AS I SAID IN THE OTHER THREAD.

I'm not replying here any more as you're all ignoring the people that are for the change (and I'm going to the dentist) so goodbye. :eusa_wall

[today]

Well I would hope people know what Infractions mean otherwise they won't have much of an idea why they got them :-P! If by what "counts" you mean what deserves an Infraction, people will very quickly gauge an idea of what "counts". When it comes to how the Infraction and Warning page is set out, I thought it was just a list of Infractions where you can choose one, decide whether it's a warning or a full Infraction, an admin note and personalised message?!

See, already your wrong ;)
Thus "hidden information" So Gommie not everyone does know ;) Yeah maybe some members, past moderators recently but not many.

[Nixt]

YOU CAN'T SEE THE METHOD THAT WE DO IT, AS I SAID IN THE OTHER THREAD.

I'm not replying here any more as you're all ignoring the people that are for the change (and I'm going to the dentist) so goodbye. :eusa_wall


I am not ignoring the people that are for the change, but they aren't justifying their opinion like those who are against it are. Which means it is virtually impossible for one to respond...

Example being -
You: "I'm all for it".
Me: "Erm, okay great."

What else am I supposed to say?!

@ Hollywood, you will have to specify where I am wrong, otherwise it looks like you are talking crap. Members may get things wrong now, but over time they work things out. Surprisingly many members of this Forum are actually quite intelligent :rolleyes:.

[j]

Why are you making a big deal about this?

It doesn't matter how many infractions it takes for us to be banned and such.

They will give out less infractions.

And if you're good and won't be getting any infractions, why does it bother you? :S

Give up, you're not impressing anyone, Garion.

[PaulMacC]

I'm getting cautioned in 3 weeks anyway, none of my 5 warnings will be cleared by then.
It really pisses me off that I have 5/0 (0) and yet people could be with 4/4 (4) and they dont get cautioned.

[lew!]

They should increase the limit of infractions for VIP.

[Emdla]

I'm saying now is..


Goodbye people


(coz you're just going to get autobanned )

[today]

Finally! :)

The whole point of this change was to give less infractions out, its sometihng like 4/10 rules which require infractions now, the rest can be given as warnings ONLY.

So your pretty much never going to get banned unless you enjoy breaking rules. ;')

Edit: Paul, i dont think you will as your currently Staff unless you get fired instead?

[PaulMacC]

Does anyone want to respondto my input asked a few posts aboved

[Nixt]

I am not intending to impress anyone, so I don't know where you are going with that one. I've never received an Infraction and I don't intend to either, so it's really not a problem with me. However, having worked as a Moderator and Super Moderator on HxF for a prolonged period some time ago I have a personal interest in how things are changing and why. In this instance I can't see why. My opinion is that automatic banning is stupid as I believe there should be human input. I also think people should get a PM for warnings, so they actually know they have received a warning. This is my feedback, it is not me trying to impress anyone.

[lew!]

what are the rules we can get banned for now?

[Emdla]

Does anyone want to respondto my input asked a few posts aboved

yeah

you wont be using the spam forum :P

[PaulMacC]

The point I am trying to make is why is it that people with 5 warnings get cautioned while people with 4 warnings and 4 infractions dont. Im losing my VIP features which I payed for if I get cautioned yet these people who are doing worse than me dont.

[Slowpoke]

Does anyone want to respondto my input asked a few posts aboved

I thought people with 5 warnings (staff) lost their jobs... I think..?

[today]

Does anyone want to respondto my input asked a few posts aboved
Yes i did see that and i await to see the outcome for that actually :D

what are the rules we can get banned for now?
Dont rule break and you wont have to find out. :rolleyes:

[Nixt]

I'm getting cautioned in 3 weeks anyway, none of my 5 warnings will be cleared by then.
It really pisses me off that I have 5/0 (0) and yet people could be with 4/4 (4) and they dont get cautioned.

I don't think Super Moderators will give up banning people altogether, and rely on automatic banning. People with 4/4 will probably be punished as well as those who get the automatic ban with 5/0.

[PaulMacC]

no, no, no.
I am talking about warnings.

[Emdla]

The point I am trying to make is why is it that people with 5 warnings get cautioned while people with 4 warnings and 4 infractions dont. Im losing my VIP features which I payed for if I get cautioned yet these people who are doing worse than me dont.

I feel http://www.ohupload.com/files/1206117690.gif4 u

Edited by jesus (Forum Super Moderator): Please do not post pointlessly.

[Slowpoke]

I don't think Super Moderators will give up banning people altogether, and rely on automatic banning. People with 4/4 will probably be punished as well as those who get the automatic ban with 5/0.

Of course. For exmaple, people who come to cause trouble will be banned instantly, people who are IP/auto banned will be banned instantly and finally bots will be banned instantly.

[today]

I don't think Super Moderators will give up banning people altogether, and rely on automatic banning. People with 4/4 will probably be punished as well as those who get the automatic ban with 5/0.
Hopefully.

no, no, no.
I am talking about warnings.
I belive if you have 4 warnings and infractions (as a example) then you'll be overlooked very often and to get the 4 infractions you must be very close ot being banned anyway, though i would like an admin to see your post ;]

EDIT:
I think even if you have say 5 warnings now, and 3 weeks later you still have 5 but no more then you'll not get cautioend till you gain another one.?

[PaulMacC]

What am I saying is, I think it's unfair with people who's warnings and infractions dont expire in the amount of time Elkaa has given us. We will be punished under the new system which isnt really fair since half of my warnings are silly tbh.

[Nixt]

Finally! :)

The whole point of this change was to give less infractions out, its sometihng like 4/10 rules which require infractions now, the rest can be given as warnings ONLY.

So your pretty much never going to get banned unless you enjoy breaking rules. ;')


If less Infractions are being given out, to me, it seems that there is even less need for automatic bans. I can now (FINALLY) see why they have been introduced but that doesn't change my opinion on the need for human input.

[Slowpoke]

What am I saying is, I think it's unfair with people who's warnings and infractions dont expire in the amount of time Elkaa has given us. We will be punished under the new system which isnt really fair since half of my warnings are silly tbh.

i think staff will be dealt with differently since you aren't dealt with by the (S)Mod team, you're dealt with by Nick- and Nvrspk4. I suggest you PM Elkaa about this.

[PaulMacC]

What about cautions?
I dont want to be setting a bad example to the rest of the forum as a staff member being cautioned.
They need to wise up with whats a warning and whats not.
You know the double posting rule should be demolished because someone makes a mistake and they get punished for it.

[Slowpoke]

i think staff will be dealt with differently since you aren't dealt with by the (S)Mod team, you're dealt with by Nick- and Nvrspk4. I suggest you PM Elkaa about this.


What about cautions?
I dont want to be setting a bad example to the rest of the forum as a staff member being cautioned.
They need to wise up with whats a warning and whats not.
You know the double posting rule should be demolished because someone makes a mistake and they get punished for it.

I've just told you what to do.

As for double posting, what if people do it purposely? Then they will get away with it. When I was moderator, when I could see someone accidently double posted, I merged their posts.

[PaulMacC]

Yes but when I accidently posted I got a warning.
Mind you several of my warnings have come from this -.-

[Slowpoke]

Yes but when I accidently posted I got a warning.
Mind you several of my warnings have come from this -.-

Well then PM Nvrpsk4 about it. He'll be happy to look into it if you explain.

[PaulMacC]

I have but he said "It's only a warning"
BUT WARNINGS ACTUALLY MEAN SOMETHING NOW!
So thats why I am pissed.

[today]

If less Infractions are being given out, to me, it seems that there is even less need for automatic bans. I can now (FINALLY) see why they have been introduced but that doesn't change my opinion on the need for human input.
WOOO!!!

What about cautions?
I dont want to be setting a bad example to the rest of the forum as a staff member being cautioned.
They need to wise up with whats a warning and whats not.
You know the double posting rule should be demolished because someone makes a mistake and they get punished for it.
I dont belive your current warnings will effect the new system.

[Slowpoke]

I have but he said "It's only a warning"
BUT WARNINGS ACTUALLY MEAN SOMETHING NOW!
So thats why I am pissed.

SO PM HIM, EXPLAINING THAT THE DOUBLE POST(S) WERE AN ACCIDENT AND HE MAY REVERSE THEM.

[GommeInc]

But once again that only tells you what you already know, they was banned for breaking rules, yes they may say which rules. And probally supply information on what content was removed ect.

But it still doesnt give inside information on the moderation guide, forum, how we are to moderate, what needs editing, what we let slip, what to report, where to report, how to report.
Editing = Visible. If something is edited, it'll give some insight as to what your standards to editing are. If something isn't edited, then we know it may or may not in be in the guide.
Reports = As I said, stuff which members definitely don't see e.g. the infraction system CP. Moderators will see what moderators will see.

You're not quite grasping the concept of visibility. We see moderators, so we see how they moderate. But we don't see what they see each other because we're not moderators.


YOU CAN'T SEE THE METHOD THAT WE DO IT, AS I SAID IN THE OTHER THREAD.

I'm not replying here any more as you're all ignoring the people that are for the change (and I'm going to the dentist) so goodbye. :eusa_wall

Have fun at the Dentist :)

[Nixt]

WOOO!!!

I dont belive your current warnings will effect the new system.

One would assume they will because it's an automatic system which won't pay attention to the fact Warnings were received before a policy change. I could be wrong, someone with the know-how feel free to correct me. But if I am right, DAMN THOSE AUTOMATIC SYSTEMS. GO HUMAN INPUT!!

[Hazza]

Sounds like a good idea.

[GommeInc]

This is why I say new systems don't work -.- They're confusing, look at Garion with his infractions/warnings... But as Elkaa said, it comes in during April, so we'll wait and see then.

[Neversoft]

How come all these decisions are made without getting feedback before they're implemented?

[PaulMacC]

I've just been told that if I get cautioned then Im fired lol.

[Slowpoke]

Sounds like a good idea.

http://www.habboxforum.com/showpost.php?p=4507244&postcount=4 - I'd just like to refer you to that post of yours, then I'd like you to look through your recent posts and then mine, then I'd like you to compare them :)

What sounds good, Harry? :rolleyes:

[today]

Editing = Visible. If something is edited, it'll give some insight as to what your standards to editing are. If something isn't edited, then we know it may or may not in be in the guide.
Reports = As I said, stuff which members definitely don't see e.g. the infraction system CP. Moderators will see what moderators will see.

You're not quite grasping the concept of visibility. We see moderators, so we see how they moderate. But we don't see what they see each other because we're not moderators.


Have fun at the Dentist :)
I dont even want to go there with you anymore, we are clearly over. :rolleyes:


One would assume they will because it's an automatic system which won't pay attention to the fact Warnings were received before a policy change. I could be wrong, someone with the know-how feel free to correct me. But if I am right, DAMN THOSE AUTOMATIC SYSTEMS. GO HUMAN INPUT!!If its anything like a system i've used before on another forum current ones doesnt effect the change unless you are warned then it will pick it up - unless super moderators have to go through members..

[Slowpoke]

I've just been told that if I get cautioned then Im fired lol.

Mhm, I think it's always been like that. Who told you? :(

[GommeInc]

I dont even want to go there with you anymore, we are clearly over. :rolleyes:
I take it you don't understand that members see what moderators do because what moderators do is visible to members :P

[PaulMacC]

Elkaa :'(
I've messaged Nvrspk4 about 2 of the unfair warning's I recieved though I do think 5 for a caution is a bit too low.

[Slowpoke]

Elkaa :'(
I've messaged Nvrspk4 about 2 of the unfair warning's I recieved though I do think 5 for a caution is a bit too low.

It's not. No-one can accidently break five rules before any expire. I do agree that the double posting rule needs to be reviewed though. Sometimes, people do accidently do it and still get warned for it (as in your case).

[Neversoft]

No-one can accidently break five rules before any expire.

It's easy to accidently break 5 rules in 2 months. :S

[GommeInc]

It's not. No-one can accidently break five rules before any expire. I do agree that the double posting rule needs to be reviewed though. Sometimes, people do accidently do it and still get warned for it (as in your case).
All they need to do is merge the posts together (or remove them, depending) and put an edit line on. A warning for a double post which clearly was accidental (same time, day and year) is pointless.

[-:Undertaker:-]

How come all these decisions are made without getting feedback before they're implemented?

Hahaha good point.


I've just been told that if I get cautioned then Im fired lol.

You haven't got long left then paul m8 xxoxo :8

[Slowpoke]

You haven't got long left then paul m8 xxoxo :8

He has, he's just realised that one expires sooner than he first anticipated ;)

[PaulMacC]

All they need to do is merge the posts together (or remove them, depending) and put an edit line on. A warning for a double post which clearly was accidental (same time, day and year) is pointless.
Thats my point

[Slowpoke]

All they need to do is merge the posts together (or remove them, depending) and put an edit line on. A warning for a double post which clearly was accidental (same time, day and year) is pointless.

Hmm. What annoys me is that people are warned for 'accidental' double posting yet people who 'purposely' bump threads just get an edit (a PM at the most) since there is no preset infraction/warning for breaking the bump rule.

[Dan2nd]

Like I said in the other thread I think you should still get a PM when being warned.

Before I thought a warning was just well a 'warning' I didn't see it as such a serious thing now though you'll get cautioned after five =l that sucks so surely if they've become more serious you should still receive a PM 'telling you off' :P

[jesus]

Why are you making a big deal about this?

It doesn't matter how many infractions it takes for us to be banned and such.

They will give out less infractions.

And if you're good and won't be getting any infractions, why does it bother you? :S

Give up, you're not impressing anyone, Garion.


What about cautions?
I dont want to be setting a bad example to the rest of the forum as a staff member being cautioned.
They need to wise up with whats a warning and whats not.
You know the double posting rule should be demolished because someone makes a mistake and they get punished for it.Don't break any rules and you'll be fine.

[GommeInc]

Hmm. What annoys me is that people are warned for 'accidental' double posting yet people who 'purposely' bump threads just get an edit (a PM at the most) since there is no preset infraction/warning for breaking the bump rule.
Exactly, and bumped threads are a helluva lot more disruptive than a double post which was accidental.

Not sending PMs when you are warned is breaking down communcation between members and management... This was meant to be solved.

[PaulMacC]

Yes but Im warned for the stupidist things.

[Slowpoke]

Yes but Im warned for the stupidist things.

It's because management more strict with staff because you're meant to set an example :)

[--ss--]

How come all these decisions are made without getting feedback before they're implemented?
There was a thread about this in the mod section as they are the main people who are going to be affected by this the most, There was also a tread about it here publically as someone leaked info about it and people did discuss it here ;).

Personally I do think the old system was just fine and this will make it a little confusing for me :(.

[Immenseman]

It's not. No-one can accidently break five rules before any expire. I do agree that the double posting rule needs to be reviewed though. Sometimes, people do accidently do it and still get warned for it (as in your case).

Are the rules still a complete mess though like they used to be? If so, then I think it's very easy to break 5 of them in 2 months.

Paul, you won't get fired, end of.

[Hazza]

It's easy to accidently break 5 rules in 2 months. :S
I've got 8 atm.
But 4 run out by the 16th of April, So I'm ok for now... But I get warned easily.. so :rolleyes:

[Neversoft]

Hmm. What annoys me is that people are warned for 'accidental' double posting yet people who 'purposely' bump threads just get an edit (a PM at the most) since there is no preset infraction/warning for breaking the bump rule.

Aparrently there was no infraction/warning for bumping threads, so people who bumped only ever got an edit. But I'm pretty sure there is actually an 'other' option when giving warnings/infractions. :S God knows why moderators never used that...


I've got 8 atm.
But 4 run out by the 16th of April, So I'm ok for now... But I get warned easily.. so :rolleyes:

Exactly!
I got 3 warnings and 1 infraction yesterday and 1 infraction today all from jesus. :eusa_wall

[PaulMacC]

Are the rules still a complete mess though like they used to be? If so, then I think it's very easy to break 5 of them in 2 months.

Paul, you won't get fired, end of.
In Jake I trust.

[FlyingJesus]

Haven't read this thread but I didn't get an answer in the other one as to how they're going to lower the infraction rate - I've already been infractioned since the "change"

[GommeInc]

There was a thread about this in the mod section as they are the main people who are going to be affected by this the most, There was also a tread about it here publically as someone leaked info about it and people did discuss it here ;).

Personally I do think the old system was just fine and this will make it a little confusing for me :(.
I fail to see how it affects them more than members but fair dos... The fact that there are 100s of times more members than moderators is clearly out of question here :rolleyes:

[Slowpoke]

Haven't read this thread but I didn't get an answer in the other one as to how they're going to lower the infraction rate - I've already been infractioned since the "change"

Because only certain rules will now result in an infraction. Most rules can only be given a warning.


Are the rules still a complete mess though like they used to be? If so, then I think it's very easy to break 5 of them in 2 months.

Care to expand on that?

[benjamin]

The changes, in my opinion look like a move in the right direction. I also like how there is a defined limit on how many Infractions/Warnings you get before you get a ban, because before it depended on how serious they were, and now it's more fair - one rule for everyone.

[GommeInc]

Because only certain rules will now result in an infraction. Most rules can only be given a warning.
If that's the case, surely we should be allowed more warnings?


The changes, in my opinion look like a move in the right direction. I also like how there is a defined limit on how many Infractions/Warnings you get before you get a ban, because before it depended on how serious they were, and now it's more fair - one rule for everyone.
It's definitely a right move, it's just badly orchestrated.

[Slowpoke]

If that's the case, surely we should be allowed more warnings?

Hence the reason warnings will only result in a caution. To be honest, I don't know the ins and outs, I know just as much as you so if you want a more in depth explanation, I suggest you PM Elkaa. :)

[PaulMacC]

If that's the case, surely we should be allowed more warnings?


It's definitely a right move, it's just badly orchestrated.
I agree with your warnings point, nearly everything is a rule now.

@Crunch/Minty
Cautions are bad, for staff anyway, they lose their job plus their vip rights as you would like a normal member.

[benjamin]

Yeah I guess it could be better explained - but there is a while until it goes in place so I'm sure it will be set in stone beforehand. Also, things have been done at Habbox a lot worse before, so yano :P
If that's the case, surely we should be allowed more warnings?


It's definitely a right move, it's just badly orchestrated.

[Hazza]

Aparrently there was no infraction/warning for bumping threads, so people who bumped only ever got an edit. But I'm pretty sure there is actually an 'other' option when giving warnings/infractions. :S God knows why moderators never used that...



Exactly!
I got 3 warnings and 1 infraction yesterday and 1 infraction today all from jesus. :eusa_wall
Its stupid - I've had more Warnings in the past 3/4 months than I have since I joined.

[GommeInc]

Hence the reason warnings will only result in a caution. To be honest, I don't know the ins and outs, I know just as much as you so if you want a more in depth explanation, I suggest you PM Elkaa. :)
I've PM'd Elkaa before, it was similar to the time I PM'd a brick wall :rolleyes:

A caution in 5 warnings is far too easy to get for the amount of rules that will definitely result in one. It should be 8 or 10.

[Slowpoke]

Its stupid - I've had more Warnings in the past 3/4 months than I have since I joined.

Even I've noticed you've been a lot more.. hmm what's the word... naughty recently :)

[PaulMacC]

I totally agree with you Gomme.

[Neversoft]

Its stupid - I've had more Warnings in the past 3/4 months than I have since I joined.

I'm pretty sure there was an announcement a few months ago stating that moderators would be more lax on infractions/warnings. No idea what happened to that. It is indeed - stupid.

[today]

I dont get it, i have two warnings but thats over a long peroid, the most i've had is about 3 on the go.

I hardly ever get wanred or infracted while im staff AND BEFORE STAFF.

So you must ignore the rules alot.

[PaulMacC]

I dont get it, i have two warnings but thats over a long peroid, the most i've had is about 3 on the go.

I hardly ever get wanred or infracted while im staff AND BEFORE STAFF.

So you must ignore the rules alot.
Yes but you wouldnt be the most active poster on the forum would you?

[Slowpoke]

I agree with your warnings point, nearly everything is a rule now.

@Crunch/Minty
Cautions are bad, for staff anyway, they lose their job plus their vip rights as you would like a normal member.

Then I imagine Nvrspk4 will give them out less frequently now they can get you cautioned so easily.

[PaulMacC]

What about the warnings he has given in the past?

[Hazza]

Yes but you wouldnt be the most active poster on the forum would you?
Haha.
But they are mainly for inapproiate posting and avoiding the filter - Which they are very harsh on, on many people.

[benjamin]

Maybe the rules will be revised beforehand? They probably won't but they need it really - some of them aren't too clear, and it all goes down to Moderators personal opinions on things, which isn't really how it should be done.

[Dan2nd]

I've got one warning at the moment which was for a stupid reason meh ... :(

[today]

Yes but you wouldnt be the most active poster on the forum would you?
I post a fair bit lately.

I must be a nice moderator then, i hardly give warnings/infractions out unless im required too. :]

[PaulMacC]

I post a fair bit lately.

I must be a nice moderator then, i hardly give warnings/infractions out unless im required too. :]
Probably are.
I really do think the number of warnings should be raised.

[GommeInc]

Maybe the rules will be revised beforehand? They probably won't but they need it really - some of them aren't too clear, and it all goes down to Moderators personal opinions on things, which isn't really how it should be done.
I think I mentioned this somewhere, but if not...

What they need to do with the rules is have different levels of rules. Serious ones listed first and the not so serious listed afterwards.

[FlyingJesus]

Because only certain rules will now result in an infraction. Most rules can only be given a warning.

Makes sense, cheers. Anyone got any idea of what rules are now only warnable?

[GommeInc]

Makes sense, cheers. Anyone got any idea of what rules are now only warnable?
We're apparently not going to be told. But we'll find out when the system is released, when people moan about it in feedback :P

[PaulMacC]

Makes sense, cheers. Anyone got any idea of what rules are now only warnable?
Double posting, posting in another language, avoiding filter, offending other members.

[benjamin]

Hopefully, I sense an idea to post about in the Council forum? ;)
I think I mentioned this somewhere, but if not...

What they need to do with the rules is have different levels of rules. Serious ones listed first and the not so serious listed afterwards.

[GommeInc]

Hopefully, I sense an idea to post about in the Council forum? ;)
I hope not, it means another thing to add to the already confusing report :(

[Slowpoke]

they are mainly for inapproiate posting and avoiding the filter

They are two pretty serious rules in my opinion. I'm sure they were justified warnings/infractions.

[---MAD---]

Garion my dear, you haven't even given the new system a chance and your complaining about it. I suggest you wait until its in effect and see how it goes. We can then make necessary adjustments from there onwards.

The way I see it, if you don't break the rules, you will never be affected by moderation systems ;).

[Slowpoke]

Garion my dear, you haven't even given the new system a chance and your complaining about it. I suggest you wait until its in effect and see how it goes. We can then make necessary adjustments from there onwards.

Of course, when the new system comes into effect, we will give feedback about it. If it doesn't work, it will changed accordingly... :$

[PaulMacC]

But what if you broke the rules like 2 months ago and have been a good boy ever since (a)

[Elkaa]

Garion my dear, you haven't even given the new system a chance and your complaining about it. I suggest you wait until its in effect and see how it goes. We can then make necessary adjustments from there onwards.

The way I see it, if you don't break the rules, you will never be affected by moderation systems ;).

Furthermore, some of you seem to be missing the key point that it's much harder to get an infraction now, than what it was yesterday. The entire system has changed as of today, but the autobans come inplace within the next 3 weeks.

[FlyingJesus]

Double posting, posting in another language, avoiding filter, offending other members.

Nope lol I got infracted today for offense/avoiding filter (when I didn't actually it was slang but oh well)

[Nixt]

Garion my dear, you haven't even given the new system a chance and your complaining about it. I suggest you wait until its in effect and see how it goes. We can then make necessary adjustments from there onwards.

The way I see it, if you don't break the rules, you will never be affected by moderation systems ;).

I'm not complaining darling, merely giving feedback. Giving my opinion on the automatic banning system and asking for clarification on the system as it was very poorly explained. After a painful hour or so it slowly became clear how this system was going to work and then I understood. I can't complain as such because I don't know how the system is going to work, I was merely attempting to gain an understanding along with expressing my doubts over the idea so those doubts could be eased accordingly :).

[today]

Double posting, posting in another language, avoiding filter, offending other members.
Nuh uh!

But what if you broke the rules like 2 months ago and have been a good boy ever since (a)
Well it still sticks, you broke the rules. thus you deserve what comes. ;)

[GommeInc]

It didn't make sense because for some reason whoever thinks up the ideas feels the need to not tell anyone. It will solve problems and might make people aware of what they should and should not be doing around the forums, when they tell us the details.

[AgnesIO]

Hi, i was just wandering about the new moderation tjhing.

I think all infractions and warnings should be clearedon the 15th.

And how much time should a caution actually work.

[today]

It didn't make sense because for some reason whoever thinks up the ideas feels the need to not tell anyone. It will solve problems and might make people aware of what they should and should not be doing around the forums, when they tell us the details.
We was told about changes over a month ago ;)

[Galaxay]

Cautions 2 week i believe and i dont think they should.

[Slowpoke]

Can you re-post that, I didn't get the last bit :S

[Galaxay]

How long is a caution im sure its what he means

[Slowpoke]

We was told about changes over a month ago ;)

Yes - they've established that we were told but they weren't. Is that hard to understand...?

[today]

Yes - they've established that we were told but they weren't. Is that hard to understand...?
I meant everyone, it was leaked sometime ago.

[Slowpoke]

How long is a caution im sure its what he means

Ah, how long they last for?

They last for two months although I'm not sure if that's going to change.

[j]

I meant everyone, it was leaked sometime ago.

Wasn't that the usernotes coming back thread? I don't remember the infractions and that thing getting leaked.

[today]

Wasn't that the usernotes coming back thread? I don't remember the infractions and that thing getting leaked.
I cant really remember but i swear i saw something about the infraction system being changed.

[Elkaa]

Hi, i was just wandering about the new moderation tjhing.

I think all infractions and warnings should be clearedon the 15th.

And how much time should a caution actually work.

This isn't being done as we want the previous month to be taken into account as well.

[benjamin]

Cautions last for two months? O_o crap, since when? My last one like months back was 10 days.
Ah, how long they last for?

They last for two months although I'm not sure if that's going to change.

[Slowpoke]

I meant everyone, it was leaked sometime ago.

Yes that was about infactions being scrapped and usernotes coming back into use. Only us (ex-)moderators knew about this particular change.

[Galaxay]

I'm sure its 2 week :P

[AgnesIO]

I think that 2 months is a long time for a caution...

[Slowpoke]

No it's two months and it always has been two months.

Edit: LOL CAUTION ohh. my bad, i'm thinking of warnings. Cautions varied up until now. Usually seven or ten days I think :D

[benjamin]

Well I never been cautioned for two months lol.

Got your edit, was gunna say lmaaao.
No it's two months and it always has been two months.

[AgnesIO]

Thats silly since a infraction is just under 2 months.

Surely infractions should be longer than a warning

Er what is the yellow block?

I mean the yellow block

I never knew warnings and cautions were different...

[Slowpoke]

Thats silly since a infraction is just under 2 months.

Surely infractions should be longer than a warning

Read my edit, Dom :)

[---MAD---]

Thats silly since a infraction is just under 2 months.

Surely infractions should be longer than a warning

Er what is the yellow block?

I mean the yellow block

I never knew warnings and cautions were different...
They both last 2 months before expiring.

[AgnesIO]

My two infractions both last 1 day less than my warnings

[Slowpoke]

Thats silly since a infraction is just under 2 months.

Surely infractions should be longer than a warning

Er what is the yellow block?

I mean the yellow block

I never knew warnings and cautions were different...

Seems like you've been getting confused too! Warnings are like infractions but less serious. Cautions are when you have your VIP stripped (if you have it), you're not allowed a signature, avatar or usertitle and have limited access to the forums. I think staff who get cautioned lose their jobs too :)

[---MAD---]

But what if you broke the rules like 2 months ago and have been a good boy ever since (a)
Infractions/warning expire after 2 months.

I'm not complaining darling, merely giving feedback. Giving my opinion on the automatic banning system and asking for clarification on the system as it was very poorly explained. After a painful hour or so it slowly became clear how this system was going to work and then I understood. I can't complain as such because I don't know how the system is going to work, I was merely attempting to gain an understanding along with expressing my doubts over the idea so those doubts could be eased accordingly :).
Ok :).

[AgnesIO]

Seems like you've been getting confused too! Warnings are like infractions but less serious. Cautions are when you have your VIP stripped (if you have it), you're not allowed a signature, avatar or usertitle and have limited access to the forums. I think staff who get cautioned lose their jobs too :)


how do you get cautions then?

Also is a caution like when i got no access to Privates Messages?

[-Xiangu-]

surely everyone should be given a clean slate for the new system.

[Slowpoke]

how do you get cautions then?

Also is a caution like when i got no access to Privates Messages?

Yes that's another thing that happens! :)

You used to get a caution from receiving five infractions but with the new changes, you will receive an automatic caution when you clock up five warnings.


surely everyone should be given a clean slate for the new system.

Not really, that would mean everyone who has broken rules in the past few weeks would get away with it. I'm pretty sure that would cause more problems than it solves. ;)

[AgnesIO]

surely everyone should be given a clean slate for the new system.

Agreed.


Yes that's another thing that happens! :)

You used to get a caution from receiving five infractions but with the new changes, you will receive an automatic caution when you clock up five warnings.



Not really, that would mean everyone who has broken rules in the past few weeks would get away with it. I'm pretty sure that would cause more problems than it solves. ;)

I think they should clear infractions and warning's that are atleast 1 month old, to introduce the new system.

BTW Minty +Rep for being helpful!

EDIT: I cant give you rep atm i gave to you not too long ago for something else!

[jrh2002]

Garion my dear, you haven't even given the new system a chance and your complaining about it. I suggest you wait until its in effect and see how it goes. We can then make necessary adjustments from there onwards.

The way I see it, if you don't break the rules, you will never be affected by moderation systems ;).

What about the racist aussie who warned me? the only person he warned was me that day and ignored all the others even though there were loads.


This isn't being done as we want the previous month to be taken into account as well.

If thats the case introduce the new system in 2 months to give people the time for current warnings and infractions to expire.


surely everyone should be given a clean slate for the new system.

Agreed 100%


I think its a good idea but you have a few things wrong with your system

1) Wipe all warnings and infractions to start or start it in 2 months so we can let them expire

2) you need to get the mod to manually pm us if they warn us.

3) so many warnings should become an infraction and not a stupid caution

4) so many infractions should become a caution

5) so many running infractions after caution become a week ban

6) If people continue to cause probs then a 3 month ban would be better than a perm? also everybody will be on the autoban list until that 3 month expires and causing probs on any other account would mean a perm ban for all accounts.

7) make cautions last a month

8) make infractions last 3 months

You are going the right way but also you should have been much more detailed when you posted it so we knew what was what.

I like gommes idea of different offences get a different level of warning. A bit like driving offences where a swear is 3 points. double post = 1 point etc then after say 10 points you get infracted.

[ThisisNiall]

I got infractioned for calling someone an idiot jokingly.

That would have been a warning before ;l

[brandon]

I haven't read much of this thread but I'm sure 10 infractions used to be a week ban and now it's a perm! And if you don't get pms for warnings, what happens if you get cautioned because of warnings yet you didn't know you were getting them?

[Elkaa]

I haven't read much of this thread but I'm sure 10 infractions used to be a week ban and now it's a perm! And if you don't get pms for warnings, what happens if you get cautioned because of warnings yet you didn't know you were getting them?

User CP.

[QuickScriptz]

I'm not sure if someone has already asked this but why will users no longer receive a PM when they are infracted/warned? It seems to me an especially good idea so that the users are alerted of the action that has been taken against them.

Atleast that's always what I found...?

[Galaxay]

Probably as most people send a pm back being abusive.

Where-as when there is no PM they wont take effort to PM abuse back..

[jrh2002]

User CP.


I'm not sure if someone has already asked this but why will users no longer receive a PM when they are infracted/warned? It seems to me an especially good idea so that the users are alerted of the action that has been taken against them.

Atleast that's always what I found...?


Probably as most people send a pm back being abusive.

Where-as when there is no PM they wont take effort to PM abuse back..

Surely a simple pm to warn us would help? if i expect to get a warning i would keep my eye on the user cp but for alot of the users how often do they post expecting a warning? are we meant to check user cp every 5 mins to make sure everything is ok? If its getting so strict i would hope any mod giving a warning and getting it wrong would get the warning turned on them.

[Galaxay]

I check usercp all the time as i subscribe to every thread :P

[benjamin]

You're really over dramatic about some issues lol. It's not really hard to check User CP, people usually do it naturally, and you also see them in your information bit everytime you post.
Surely a simple pm to warn us would help? if i expect to get a warning i would keep my eye on the user cp but for alot of the users how often do they post expecting a warning? are we meant to check user cp every 5 mins to make sure everything is ok? If its getting so strict i would hope any mod giving a warning and getting it wrong would get the warning turned on them.

[Hazza]

You're really over dramatic about some issues lol. It's not really hard to check User CP, people usually do it naturally, and you also see them in your information bit everytime you post.
Yeah, but if your like me and hide the 'Infraction Revieced' part then its awkward.

[Slowpoke]

Yeah, but if your like me and hide the 'Infraction Revieced' part then its awkward.

Yes but when you receive an infraction your points will go up. You can see this quite easily by looking at the top right of your posts.

[benjamin]

Or bottom left ;)
Yes but when you receive an infraction your points will go up. You can see this quite easily by looking at the top right of your posts.

[Slowpoke]

Or bottom left ;)

Ah yes, it depends on the layout you use! :)

[Hitman]

I'm not sure if it has been said (probably has), but when you receive an infraction you are PMed. When you receive a warning you're not. So it's not totally quite. ;)

After every post you'll notice if it has gone up.

[Hazza]

Yes but when you receive an infraction your points will go up. You can see this quite easily by looking at the top right of your posts.
Warnings count as nothing, so how are you going to notice these?
Also, it may be a one off post in a thread you might not go back and check your post. (Edit; I see what you mean like 8/1 (1) but still.)
PMs were a simple and easy way of keeping track of your warnings/infractions.

[jrh2002]

You're really over dramatic about some issues lol. It's not really hard to check User CP, people usually do it naturally, and you also see them in your information bit everytime you post.

A simple pm from a mod and then its fine.
I dont notice warnings in my user cp for days after and i dont even notice it when posting :s i pay not attention to post count or anything else i just read the topic to decide if i want to read it or not.
if you need 2 warnings to get the caution and you are not aware of the first one it will just cause probs.

I am on about others here and not myself as i dont read pm's sometimes so dont know if i have issues or not ;)

[QuickScriptz]

I'm not sure if it has been said (probably has), but when you receive an infraction you are PMed. When you receive a warning you're not. So it's not totally quite. ;)

After every post you'll notice if it has gone up.

Alright, well that's better than no PM at all, but I would still almost think a PM when you receive a warning is a good idea... I mean isn't the purpose of a warning to alert you that you've broken the rules and to hopefully prevent you from doing it again? It would just make sense to me because people are more likely to notice a new PM (with the whole JS popup when you get a new PM + some users have the Forum email them) than they are to notice a subtle change in their User CP.

Also, like memory already said, how likely is it that you're going to go re-read your previous posts to check for warnings?

Anyway, just my opinion...

[jrh2002]

Alright, well that's better than no PM at all, but I would still almost think a PM when you receive a warning is a good idea... I mean isn't the purpose of a warning to alert you that you've broken the rules and to hopefully prevent you from doing it again? It would just make sense to me because people are more likely to notice a new PM (with the whole JS popup when you get a new PM + some users have the Forum email them) than they are to notice a subtle change in their User CP.

Also, like memory already said, how likely is it that you're going to go re-read your previous posts to check for warnings?

Anyway, just my opinion...

Your spot on.

For the sake of a quick pm with a link to your warned post whats the big issue? i am all for a stricter forum but not sending a pm is a backwards step.

I also read bullying is a perm ban? is that for one post abusing somebody? or a series of posts? some people only abuse others back in retaliation and I think you will end up banning the wrong person in some cases.

[Slowpoke]

Warnings count as nothing, so how are you going to notice these?
Also, it may be a one off post in a thread you might not go back and check your post.

What the hell, the 8 in your "8/1 (1)" means you have eight warnings. How can you not notice that?

[jrh2002]

What the hell, the 8 in your "8/1 (1)" means you have eight warnings. How can you not notice that?

So every post you make you read that info in the top right? I can assure you I dont and I bet the majority or the forum users dont.

[Slowpoke]

So every post you make you read that info in the top right? I can assure you I dont and I bet the majority or the forum users dont.

Did I say that? I can bet you, and the majority of the forum users glance at it at least once a day.

[Hazza]

What the hell, the 8 in your "8/1 (1)" means you have eight warnings. How can you not notice that?
Like Jhr said, its not like once you've posted you check how many you've got - 4 of my warnings and my infraction expire before the week new system, so I'll be 4/0 ;) - Lucky :P!

[jrh2002]

Did I say that? I can bet you, and the majority of the forum users glance at it at least once a day.

So if you need 2 warnings to be cautioned and you get one at 10am and dont notice it until 5pm it could be to late and your cautioned.




Hi,

You have recieved a warning for this post/thread
*LINK*

Regards,
A Mod




not hard or time consuming just to be kind enough to inform us is it? Especially if we are VIP and could be losing some features we actually pay for.

I dont think this will affect me at all I am just giving my opinion on what would be better.

[Slowpoke]

So if you need 2 warnings to be cautioned and you get one at 10am and dont notice it until 5pm it could be to late and your cautioned.




Hi,

You have recieved a warning for this post/thread
*LINK*

Regards,
A Mod




not hard or time consuming just to be kind enough to inform us is it? Especially if we are VIP and could be losing some features we actually pay for.

I dont think this will affect me at all I am just giving my opinion on what would be better.

I can't argue with that :)

[Hazza]

Its so simple its unbelievable - Its all down to staff, who simply cannot be bothered to be frank. A PM is nothing - Just a simple 'You have revieced a warning' would be fine. Some kind of indication that you have recieved one.

[jrh2002]

I can't argue with that :)

I remember before the infraction system even existed and all warnings etc were done manually and a pm was always sent. I just like to see people kept informed and think its for the best and also stops certain people trying to use the excuse of being unaware of a warning.

[Slowpoke]

Its so simple its unbelievable - Its all down to staff, who simply cannot be bothered to be frank. A PM is nothing - Just a simple 'You have revieced a warning' would be fine. Some kind of indication that you have recieved one.

It wouldn't make a difference since the PMs are automatic.

[jrh2002]

It wouldn't make a difference since the PMs are automatic.

I think they are not automatic for some reason with warnings (I know they currently are) and thats the issue so a manual one by the warning mod would be required

[today]

Its so simple its unbelievable - Its all down to staff, who simply cannot be bothered to be frank. A PM is nothing - Just a simple 'You have revieced a warning' would be fine. Some kind of indication that you have recieved one.
Woahh calm down dude, dont blame us we follow orders.

I didnt mind sending a pm as it was built into the infraction system but honestly dont blame us. ;)

[Slowpoke]

I think they are not automatic for some reason with warnings (I know they currently are) and thats the issue so a manual one by the warning mod would be required

Well the automatic PMs are still going to be used for infractions so I guess we'll have to wait 'til nearer the time for it to be explained more thoroughly. :)

[jrh2002]

Woahh calm down dude, dont blame us we follow orders.

I didnt mind sending a pm as it was built into the infraction system but honestly dont blame us. ;)

You are not being blamed at all :) I just hope that senior management read this and decide for the better to inform us by pm to save and confusion.

[Slowpoke]

You are not being blamed at all :) I just hope that senior management read this and decide for the better to inform us by pm to save and confusion.

You're like me, you miss out words and stuff:P

And yeah, I would like the PM system to stay

[Hazza]

Woahh calm down dude, dont blame us we follow orders.

I didnt mind sending a pm as it was built into the infraction system but honestly dont blame us. ;)
My bad, I meant Management who can't be bothered with the hassle of them.
Also, If warnings are automatic - Why get rid of them? :rolleyes:

[jrh2002]

You're like me, you miss out words and stuff:P

And yeah, I would like the PM system to stay

I put a D instead of a Y lol hope thats allowed under the strict new rules ;)

[Slowpoke]

I put a D instead of a Y lol hope thats allowed under the strict new rules ;)

No you missed out a word :P You do it quite often. I do it all the time and I've noticed MAD does it aswell as a few other members. It's dead weird :D

[jrh2002]

No you missed out a word :P You do it quite often. I do it all the time and I've noticed MAD does it aswell as a few other members. It's dead weird :D

I admit my english is not the best lol i should read my posts before posting but end up editing 2 or 3 times :o

Post is

You are not being blamed at all :) I just hope that senior management read this and decide for the better to inform us by pm to save and confusion.

Should have been

You are not being blamed at all :) I just hope that senior management read this and decide for the better to inform us by pm to save any confusion.

What word did I miss? now im confused.

[--ss--]

I think they are not automatic for some reason with warnings (I know they currently are) and thats the issue so a manual one by the warning mod would be required
Sorry but I have to disagree , Back when it was the usernote system I had never received a PM before about breaking any rules until I was given a caution within the month I registerd for things like double posting/oversized signatures etc (I'll admit, I was quite nooby back then)
I got given a caution from what I though was out of the blue and unfair as I couldn't even see my usernotes so I had no idea I had ever broken a rule :'(

It would have been nice to have a gotten a PM back then telling what I have done (and I'm guessing by your post I was meant to) but from experience trying to moderate on here it may not seem like alot of effort but seeing as that will be increasing one of the things to do on top of all the other stressful jobs it's going to be really hard to do so.

In conclusion , Having it so we manually PM people will benefit the users but will harm the mod's as we already have enough to do as it is. The new systems looks like a good idea and probably is and may seem a little confusing but I guess we have to give it a shot first.

Edit: One of the reasons why PM's were removed from giving out warnings was 80% of time the mods just receive harassment back with them ;).

[Slowpoke]

I admit my english is not the best lol i should read my posts before posting but end up editing 2 or 3 times :o

Post is


Should have been


What word did I miss? now im confused.

Oh I thought you meant to put "save time and confusion" ehehhe :D

[MissAlice]

I can't see why a pm can't be sent, to advise of a warning. There are going to be new members to the forum every day, who may have quickly scanned through the rules, and may not sign in again for a few days or possibly even a week. Not every member is a forum rule book expert and understands every action that takes place. Even I forgot myself a few weeks ago, and got my first warning ever lol. I didn't notice it, but when I next signed in a pm was waiting for me. Although I wasn't to pleased with myself, the pm was a reminder, and it's been noted :p

I think it's important to communicate with members! Then there is no excuse to say they wern't aware.

[jrh2002]

Sorry but I have to disagree , Back when it was the usernote system I had never received a PM before about breaking any rules until I was given a caution within the month I registerd for things like double posting/oversized signatures etc (I'll admit, I was quite nooby back then)
I got given a caution from what I though was out of the blue and unfair as I couldn't even see my usernotes so I had no idea I had ever broken a rule :'(

It would have been nice to have a gotten a PM back then telling what I have done (and I'm guessing by your post I was meant to) but from experience trying to moderate on here it may not seem like alot of effort but seeing as that will be increasing one of the things to do on top of all the other stressful jobs it's going to be really hard to do so.

In conclusion , Having it so we manually PM people will benefit the users but will harm the mod's as we already have enough to do as it is. The new systems looks like a good idea and probably is and may seem a little confusing but I guess we have to give it a shot first.

I am going back to before any usernote system when everything was done manually and recorded in threads etc. This worked well back then but of course when a new forum manager took over years ago they change things and sometimes not for the better. If you dont have time to send a pm then maybe hire a few more mods so it spreads the workload?
A manual pm thats copy and pasted from notepad is hard? all you need to add is the link to the thread? or even

Hi,

You have recieved a warning on HxF. Please refer to your usercp for details (link to user cp)

a copy, 2 clicks, a paste and a click. 15 seconds on top?

[Tiked]

I really like the new system, but the no PMS are a bit out of the blue. I like the cautions and bans because some people get away with lots of things and with this update they will be targeted.
However i don't like the idea that if you get a warning you won't be Pmed.
For example if i made a pointless post and then then didn't come back to the thread i wouldn't know i had been given a warning unless i checked in my User Cp, and quite a few people don't look at dates issued. I know it saves hassle but i believe it would be better if PMs were still given out for warnings.

[---MAD---]

The main reason we decided not to send pms with warnings because we wanted them to act kinda like user notes but automatically logged etc as people seem to prefer user notes to infractions although I will never understand why. Now it seems when we make this change, people want it the other way. Theres no winning in these sort of battles to be frank.

It's a bit like the filter. People complain we were too strict with it. We removed ***** and piss and people complained it should be added back to the filter. Its also the same with the rule about posting serial keys etc. Its a never ending battle here and sometimes we just have to decide which side to go with as its impossible to please everyone as you can see :).

If people want a PM with warnings, we can do that I guess. It requires barely any effort from the moderators as they are automatically sent.

Also to those who say "just copy/paste this from notepad, takes 1 second!". You have to remember that these seconds/minutes adds up and also tasks like that get tidious. We try to make a mods life as easy as possible so that they continue to enjoy working on the forum and keeping the forums clean :).

Saying "get new mods" or "get more mods" is hardly helpful. Finding good moderators that are active enough and understand the rules enough is no easy task. You can tell this by how long it takes sometimes for a moderator to settle in.

One more thing I would like to add in is that if you follow the rules, there no way you would manage to get 5 infractions or 5 warnings. I myself use many forums and don't read the forum rules mainly because its all obvious. Most the forums have the same rules. Don't spam, dont be rude, respect other members, don't post inappropriate posts etc etc.

[DaveTaylor]

The main reason we decided not to send pms with warnings because we wanted them to act kinda like usernotes but automatically logged etc as people seem to prefer usernotes to infractions although I will never understand why. Now it seems when we make this change, people want it the other way. Theres no winning in these sort of battles to be frank.

both?..

[today]

I perfer not having to send pms to users as sometimes the abuse you got back was harsh.

[---MAD---]

I perfer not having to send pms to users as sometimes the abuse you got back was harsh.
In all honesty I wouldn't use that as the excuse as we can just deal with those users appropriately.

Please read my reply on the bottom of page 17 :).

[MissAlice]

I perfer not having to send pms to users as sometimes the abuse you got back was harsh.

Then in my opinion you should forward that pm to admin, where they can deal with it, and take further action.

[jrh2002]

The main reason we decided not to send pms with warnings because we wanted them to act kinda like user notes but automatically logged etc as people seem to prefer user notes to infractions although I will never understand why. Now it seems when we make this change, people want it the other way. Theres no winning in these sort of battles to be frank.

It's a bit like the filter. People complain we were too strict with it. We removed ***** and piss and people complained it should be added back to the filter. Its also the same with the rule about posting serial keys etc. Its a never ending battle here and sometimes we just have to decide which side to go with as its impossible to please everyone as you can see :).

If people want a PM with warnings, we can do that I guess. It requires barely any effort from the moderators as they are automatically sent.

Also to those who say "just copy/paste this from notepad, takes 1 second!". You have to remember that these seconds/minutes adds up and also tasks like that get tidious. We try to make a mods life as easy as possible so that they continue to enjoy working on the forum and keeping the forums clean :).

Saying "get new mods" or "get more mods" is hardly helpful. Finding good moderators that are active enough and understand the rules enough is no easy task. You can tell this by how long it takes sometimes for a moderator to settle in.

So you hear a few people want the infraction system changed you do it? you see a few wanting the filter relaxed you do it? Why do you not do a big forum poll so we can give out input in a vote and see what the majority want? I swear you make up half the stuff you come out with.
Oh you gave 5 warnings today so that adds up to 2 minutes of your life which could have been saved :s if they dont like wasting those 2 minutes then surely they dont deserve the job? If you listened more then you would still have a number of good mods who are no longer here due to being fired for taking action at being ignored.

I thought the users here were the priority and not you. How about ask in a poll if we want informing of warnings or not? i see no evidence that most the members dont like the current system? please provide public links please so i can see this for myself and then agree with you.

I agree the place needs to be stricter but like the rep system you decide whats what and just plough ahead without even considering the members who are what keeps hxf running.


I perfer not having to send pms to users as sometimes the abuse you got back was harsh.

Pathetic excuse. Get abused by a user who only has themself to blame for the warning then ban them or something not just run and hide

[Hazza]

If people want a PM with warnings, we can do that I guess. It requires barely any effort from the moderators as they are automatically sent.

Yes please - I also agree with everything else you said.
As for the managements 'never ending battle' you can't please everyone and I still believe the Piss and ***** situation should be reversed whereas others may not... Its life.

[jrh2002]

Yes please - I also agree with everything else you said.
As for the managements 'never ending battle' you can't please everyone and I still believe the Piss and ***** situation should be reversed whereas others may not... Its life.


be nice if it says you have a warning though and not an infraction for a warning like it currently does.

[GommeInc]

The main reason we decided not to send pms with warnings because we wanted them to act kinda like user notes but automatically logged etc as people seem to prefer user notes to infractions although I will never understand why. Now it seems when we make this change, people want it the other way. Theres no winning in these sort of battles to be frank.
It's because usernotes were hidden. Warnings are listed in the User CP and people would like to be told that they've got one and why. It's not quite got through to everyone that communcation between management and members is incredibly low, and taking the move to make it even lower won't earn you much respect.


It's a bit like the filter. People complain we were too strict with it. We removed ***** and piss and people complained it should be added back to the filter. Its also the same with the rule about posting serial keys etc. Its a never ending battle here and sometimes we just have to decide which side to go with as its impossible to please everyone as you can see :).
The majority don't care about the words piss and *****, infact the whole discussions died out ages ago. They just don't understand why ***** was unfiltered, when dick was suggested and never did get unfiltered.


If people want a PM with warnings, we can do that I guess. It requires barely any effort from the moderators as they are automatically sent.
I suggest you do, because that was something that worked within the system.


One more thing I would like to add in is that if you follow the rules, there no way you would manage to get 5 infractions or 5 warnings. I myself use many forums and don't read the forum rules mainly because its all obvious. Most the forums have the same rules. Don't spam, dont be rude, respect other members, don't post inappropriate posts etc etc.
Some super mods, moderators and admins bend the rules to suit their needs. It's happened in the past and it could well happen in the future. They bend the rules and make any petty little thing a reason to warn someone. Some fail to read the whole story, which is harmless. They immediately see a small insult thrown at someone and warn whoever sent it, either though the receiver never got offended or the whole story of the insult was for humour reasons. It happens, it's called having a sense of humour. Something which died out before 8Freak8 (not saying he caused it).

[---MAD---]

So you hear a few people want the infraction system changed you do it? you see a few wanting the filter relaxed you do it? Why do you not do a big forum poll so we can give out input in a vote and see what the majority want? I swear you make up half the stuff you come out with.
A few people? We recieved loads and loads of complaints about it and still do. You forget you are not part of management and you don't see everything that happens ;). I find it quite rude and insulting the way you put that reply as that is that is complete non-sense. Please highlight anything else you swear I made up :).

Also, in regards to the filter - if you check your poll, http://www.habboxforum.com/showthread.php?t=458128, you will notice that many people disagree with you thinking piss is a swear word ;).

I agree the place needs to be stricter but like the rep system you decide whats what and just plough ahead without even considering the members who are what keeps hxf running.

The staff AND the members keep hxf running. Without the staff = no forum. Without the members = no forum.


Some super mods, moderators and admins bend the rules to suit their needs. It's happened in the past and it could well happen in the future. They bend the rules and make any petty little thing a reason to warn someone. Some fail to read the whole story, which is harmless. They immediately see a small insult thrown at someone and warn whoever sent it, either though the receiver never got offended or the whole story of the insult was for humour reasons. It happens, it's called having a sense of humour. Something which died out before 8Freak8 (not saying he caused it).
Please PM me links to any threads/posts where smods/mods/admins bent the rules to suit their needs and I will personally take care of it :).

[today]

Then in my opinion you should forward that pm to admin, where they can deal with it, and take further action.
Which makes more work for them, which takes more time, which means they cant do other jobs... Great! ;)



Pathetic excuse. Get abused by a user who only has themself to blame for the warning then ban them or something not just run and hide
I dont even bother reading your replies fully anymore, as all you ever do is moan these days. Get over it, Habbox is not perfect and never will be and honestly i dont want it to be either. :) Though you dont know the correct actions with users and such, as i said to MissAlice its yet more work which is not needed. ;)

Now i wont reply here unless i need too.

[GommeInc]

Please PM me links to any threads/posts where smods/mods/admins bent the rules to suit their needs and I will personally take care of it :).
You'll have to direct your attention to the people who have received such warnings. Also, don't take on the task, let someone else do it :P

[today]

Who else is to do so if an admin breaks the rules? Only Sierk or MAD can deal with it http://www.habboxforum.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

[Slowpoke]

Who else is to do so if an admin breaks the rules? Only Sierk or MAD can deal with it :P

"I'll only reply in here if I need to" ;)

As for the changes, I agree with it all except for the fact that you don't get a PM with warnings although MAD said that will probably be changed?

[---MAD---]

You'll have to direct your attention to the people who have received such warnings. Also, don't take on the task, let someone else do it :P
You directed it at my quote and targetted me when saying it so I offered my services. If you want another admin to do it PM him instead :P.

[sierk]

So you hear a few people want the infraction system changed you do it? you see a few wanting the filter relaxed you do it? Why do you not do a big forum poll so we can give out input in a vote and see what the majority want? I swear you make up half the stuff you come out with.
Oh you gave 5 warnings today so that adds up to 2 minutes of your life which could have been saved :s if they dont like wasting those 2 minutes then surely they dont deserve the job? If you listened more then you would still have a number of good mods who are no longer here due to being fired for taking action at being ignored.

I thought the users here were the priority and not you. How about ask in a poll if we want informing of warnings or not? i see no evidence that most the members dont like the current system? please provide public links please so i can see this for myself and then agree with you.

I agree the place needs to be stricter but like the rep system you decide whats what and just plough ahead without even considering the members who are what keeps hxf running.

I think ---MAD--- 's point is that it doesn't matter what we decide, there will always be people complaining. And of course it is important to make the job of moderating as easy as possible.
From what I can tell ---MAD--- is always very careful with considering the opinion of the forum members in all his decisions. But there are a lot of decisions that should only be taken by management, such as the one where we changed the rep power. This was a very successful decision as now rep is considered less important around the forum, solving a lot of problems. But if we had asked the opinion of our members they would never have agreed with a reduction in rep power. Decisions like this, including how we moderate, should only be taken by management. As long members don't realize this, there will always be discussions like this.

[benjamin]

Can I ask - if you say that reputation and moderation will only be changed by management, then why the hell are you letting the council put forward reputation plans as to how it could be changed - when nothing will ever happen?
I think ---MAD--- 's point is that it doesn't matter what we decide, there will always be people complaining. And of course it is important to make the job of moderating as easy as possible.
From what I can tell ---MAD--- is always very careful with considering the opinion of the forum members in all his decisions. But there are a lot of decisions that should only be taken by management, such as the one where we changed the rep power. This was a very successful decision as now rep is considered less important around the forum, solving a lot of problems. But if we had asked the opinion of our members they would never have agreed with a reduction in rep power. Decisions like this, including how we moderate, should only be taken by management. As long members don't realize this, there will always be discussions like this.

[GommeInc]

Can I ask - if you say that reputation and moderation will only be changed by management, then why the hell are you letting the council put forward reputation plans as to how it could be changed - when nothing will ever happen?
I was thinking that too :S The problem with Habbox in general is that you get different answers from different people about anything... The council is dealing with the rep, the management dealt with it last and it failed miserably, so we're picking up the pieces :D

[---MAD---]

Can I ask - if you say that reputation and moderation will only be changed by management, then why the hell are you letting the council put forward reputation plans as to how it could be changed - when nothing will ever happen?
The council is allowed to discuss any topics just as members are allowed to give us feedback on changes we make. We are not restricting the council (or members) from what they are allowed to feedback on as long as its appropriate, done in the right place and the right way. We look at the feedback and make changes were we feel necessary.

[sierk1]

As I have said before the idea behind the council was not so they could help decide how we run the forum, but to come up with new and creative ideas for Habbox.


Can I ask - if you say that reputation and moderation will only be changed by management, then why the hell are you letting the council put forward reputation plans as to how it could be changed - when nothing will ever happen?

[The Professor]

As I have said before the idea behind the council was not so they could help decide how we run the forum, but to come up with new and creative ideas for Habbox.

If that is the case I feel the council is not being used to its fullest potential. You have an incredibly useful tool in both making decisions and keeping people happy, but you choose to ignore it? That doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me.

[jrh2002]

A few people? We recieved loads and loads of complaints about it and still do. You forget you are not part of management and you don't see everything that happens ;). I find it quite rude and insulting the way you put that reply as that is that is complete non-sense. Please highlight anything else you swear I made up :).

Also, in regards to the filter - if you check your poll, http://www.habboxforum.com/showthread.php?t=458128, you will notice that many people disagree with you thinking piss is a swear word ;).

The staff AND the members keep hxf running. Without the staff = no forum. Without the members = no forum.


Please PM me links to any threads/posts where smods/mods/admins bent the rules to suit their needs and I will personally take care of it :).

My poll is what you should have done in the first place and then it stops members saying they were not listened to. Do you not do polls because the first time you tried it and a change should have been made you were over ruled and made to look stupid? quite a few people think the word piss is swearing so allowing it is offending people but not allowing it offends who? to be honest I made that poll so i could get some input from others which is great :)

Why am I no longer here? because I could not be doing with you taking everything personally and thinking everything is perfect as it is. I put many ideas forward that people liked but to be honest they were how things used to be done so somebody had changed them to make things easier for themself even though it was a backwards step. Maybe the fact you would completely disregard many ideas instead of debate them because you know best. Ideas people like you said we would look into adding over time and then they just slip away never to be seen again.

How do I forget I am not part of the management? I can now openly bring things up in public now and believe not being staff has made much more of a difference than working alongside who in my opinion has very limited people skills.

Remember I used to own this forum? I did have a few backup accounts with access masks set so although just members if i wished i could read anything but I am not going to do that and cant even think of the forum names used ;) search 45k of members to find them please :eusa_whis then remove their access. TY

Habbox is in the worst state it has ever been in and im afraid the book stops with the person in charge and because sierk gave you that role then i blame you.


@ Hollywood

I dont want you to read my posts and reply to me thanks. you can continue bullying Pix etc by picking up on their spelling.


Who else is to do so if an admin breaks the rules? Only Sierk or MAD can deal with it :P

Sierk, Mad, nvr, adzeh are above all admin and then elkaa who as forum mansger would be above any other admins like AFM and below

[The Professor]

Sierk, Mad, nvr, adzeh are above all admin and then elkaa who as forum mansger would be above any other admins like AFM and below

If I'm correct, Adzeh has nothing to do with the forum heirachy and has no powers at all except the ability to see all staff forums for general managing purposes.

[jrh2002]

If I'm correct, Adzeh has nothing to do with the forum heirachy and has no powers at all except the ability to see all staff forums for general managing purposes.

AGM is above admin and can warn all staff below agm and that is why i was made agm :s i didnt want that title and would have sooner been admin or something different.

[Technologic]

Can we have a PM when a warning is issued... how are people who dont check the usercp that often meant to know?

[Slowpoke]

Sierk, Mad, nvr, adzeh are above all admin and then elkaa who as forum mansger would be above any other admins like AFM and below

joshuar, nick- and OSH must rank quite highly too, joshuar is an AGM.


Can we have a PM when a warning is issued... how are people who dont check the usercp that often meant to know?

MAD is considering it.

[jrh2002]

joshuar, nick- and OSH must rank quite highly too, joshuar is an AGM.






I forgot Joshuar :o I am very sorry :(

[Slowpoke]

I forgot Joshuar :o I am very sorry :(

lol he will be well upset. by the way, can anyone punish MAD? and if sierk did something wrong, could anyone punish him?

(i'm asking you because you used to be an AGM, incase you're wondering :P)

[jrh2002]

lol he will be well upset. by the way, can anyone punish MAD? and if sierk did something wrong, could anyone punish him?

(i'm asking you because you used to be an AGM, incase you're wondering :P)

Sierk can sack everybody lol but the only people who can punish sierk is if he broke the law and was sued etc by somebody outside the habbox group :p criminal or civil and both are possible with all the warez stuff allowed to be posted :o as the sites sierks its on his head.

[Slowpoke]

i bet all you amgs have like secret backup accounts though ehee :D but like, say if sierk was hacked...

[jrh2002]

i bet all you amgs have like secret backup accounts though ehee :D but like, say if sierk was hacked...

They would just install backups which i presume Mad and sierk have along with the people who own the server.

I can be quite critical and sometimes take things further than I should but I feel that its sometimes needed to get a reaction and things done. There is no doubt how hard all management work and we all want the best the only issues are how people go about things.

[QuickScriptz]

Edit: One of the reasons why PM's were removed from giving out warnings was 80% of time the mods just receive harassment back with them ;).


I perfer not having to send pms to users as sometimes the abuse you got back was harsh.

Hm... well it would seem to me that it would be quite possible to set it up (might have to hard code this in but it wouldn't be that terribly difficult) so that you get a PM from a "Habbox-User-Notices" account. What you could do is create this account with a PM storage limit of 0 and then just attach a message at the bottom of all warning/infraction PM's that replies will not be delivered. I would think that this would simply require some minor 'hackery' in the warnings/infractions class file... just a suggestion :)


If people want a PM with warnings, we can do that I guess. It requires barely any effort from the moderators as they are automatically sent.

This is one of those "sticky situations" where as you said above, no one ever really wins. My thinking is something along the lines of a PM to let the user know is a good idea, but as stated above, it would make sense to have them sent as though they're from an automated no-reply account.

Anyways, way to stick to your guns ---MAD--- :)

[Slowpoke]

it would make sense to have them sent as though they're from an automated no-reply account.

If that's actually possible it's a fantastic idea!

[QuickScriptz]

If that's actually possible it's a fantastic idea!

It would most certainly be possible. Like I said above just create an account with a PM storage limit of 0 (which will just reply with mailbox full messages whenever someone tries to send the account something) and then it's just a case of some vB code hacking :)

[Dentafrice]

I believe they already have that installed, for the "new user register", that sends it from System?

If I am not mistaken :P

It could tie into that?

[nvrspk4]

Remember I used to own this forum? I did have a few backup accounts with access masks set so although just members if i wished i could read anything but I am not going to do that and cant even think of the forum names used ;) search 45k of members to find them please :eusa_whis then remove their access. TY

:o That was YOU?? We found them alright.

I nearly got fired that night :eusa_danc

In terms of the moderation changes, it certainly is a mixed bag. But sometimes you have to give some to get some.

[jrh2002]

:o That was YOU?? We found them alright.

I nearly got fired that night :eusa_danc

In terms of the moderation changes, it certainly is a mixed bag. But sometimes you have to give some to get some.

I have never been on them but they are well hidden and in all user groups including banned and unconfirmed lol Im sure you have not found them all ;) I would never use them and they were set up while i was still forum owner. If I find the list of names I will forward them to you just so you can make sure they are all removed incase anybody else got access to them.

Back on topic
I like the new changes and just think a pm would be better so we know of any warnings instantly.

[---MAD---]

I have never been on them but they are well hidden and in all user groups including banned and unconfirmed lol Im sure you have not found them all ;) I would never use them and they were set up while i was still forum owner. If I find the list of names I will forward them to you just so you can make sure they are all removed incase anybody else got access to them.

Back on topic
I like the new changes and just think a pm would be better so we know of any warnings instantly.
They were all removed ages ago because it lists them all in the admincp :P.

[Slowpoke]

I think you do get messages now for warnings.. just got to wait for management to confirm/dismiss what I'm saying here! :)

[jrh2002]

They were all removed ages ago because it lists them all in the admincp :P.

Oh weird how come somebody had full rights to view EVERYTHING with your say so and then when I mentioned it you had forgot you gave them access. Maybe you should check your feature alot more often.

It was like you giving some random MP full access to the MI5 computers :eusa_clap

[---MAD---]

Oh weird how come somebody had full rights to view EVERYTHING with your say so and then when I mentioned it you had forgot you gave them access. Maybe you should check your feature alot more often.

It was like you giving some random MP full access to the MI5 computers :eusa_clap
You love comparing us to the government :P.

When was this :S?

[jrh2002]

You love comparing us to the government :P.

When was this :S?

An old forum administrator had their access masks set to see every single forum including the AGM forum.

You are very much like the government but I cant decide if your Tony Blair or Gordon Brown :eusa_whis

Do we get a pm to tell us of warnings? I see minty asked but you never replied.

Oh I like how your asking opinions but is there a way to stop being forced to go to a page? If you force people to go to your page then I would expect them to vote differently to what they would if they went to a thread to vote out of interest.

[today]

Yes all users get pms when they are given warnings for the time being.

[Slowpoke]

Do we get a pm to tell us of warnings?

We've been told all users do but it's because of a bug! So for the time being, yes.

[Catzsy]

This is not a bump as I have been on holiday.

I agree with Garion pretty much but will see how it goes. My gut feeling
is that taking the human element out of banning which includes making a common sense decision is a retrograde step and will lead to quite a few problems and could be abused by staff if they are that way inclined and somebody could be cautioned very swiftly. Are the bans going to be audited?

[kerplunkwozere]

i thought it was supposed to be like
harder to get infractions
:rolleyes: lool

[Slowpoke]

i thought it was supposed to be like
harder to get infractions
:rolleyes: lool

It is which is why moderators tend to give warnings. Obviously harsh rule breaking will still always will be infracted.

[kerplunkwozere]

because things like calling someone a moron is a HARSH rule break
/clap
lolololololol
It is which is why moderators tend to give warnings. Obviously harsh rule breaking will still always will be infracted.

[today]

because things like calling someone a moron is a HARSH rule break
/clap
lolololololol
Being rude darling, always has been a harsh rule.

[Slowpoke]

because things like calling someone a moron is a HARSH rule break
/clap
lolololololol

As you know, all forms of insults are dealt with severely nowadays. If you choose insulting to be the rule you break often then you'll be banned pretty swiftly. Most rule breaks though, only result in a warning so if you get lots of infractions you've only yourself to blame!

[The Professor]

This is not a bump as I have been on holiday.

I agree with Garion pretty much but will see how it goes. My gut feeling
is that taking the human element out of banning which includes making a common sense decision is a retrograde step and will lead to quite a few problems and could be abused by staff if they are that way inclined and somebody could be cautioned very swiftly. Are the bans going to be audited?

Most super mods could wreak a fair bit of havoc on the forum too if they were that way inclined, but I think we have to assume that staff aren't going to abuse their powers. We have to assume everyone is innocent until proven guilty otherwise we don't get any staff at all!

[Catzsy]

Most super mods could wreak a fair bit of havoc on the forum too if they were that way inclined, but I think we have to assume that staff aren't going to abuse their powers. We have to assume everyone is innocent until proven guilty otherwise we don't get any staff at all!


Yes, I agree but Smods are chosen because they have proved themselves to be trustworthy and have good common sense, at least this is the way it used to work. :P I did say that we should see how it goes but really
the power to ban has literally been taken out of the hands of experienced Smods and the system could be abused even on the first day of a trial mod.
Alex I know most mods are fine but we know from experience that isn't always the case. I wasn't saying that is shouldn't be used merely asking what safeguards there are in place.