Free speech

[Thetan]

Well, it should be valued, and respected no matter how negative it is. I know, alot of users are going to reply "JUST DROP IT!". But do you know what, I won't. I will "kick up a fuss", because recently somebody got banned for speaking his mind. The "habbox lovers" excuse was: He always posts negatively. But did he? No, he occasionally posted an opinion, that differed from everyone elses. Was it negative? You could say it was, Im sure I would be irritated too if somebody advertised their website a bit, saying theirs was better. But he never said habbox was bad, he has been trying to help it. I enjoyed having him on here, he posted alot of good stuff. What has this forum come to?

[today]

Im going to guess im classed as Habbox Lovers rofl. ;'] As i agreed the ban was alright.

Either way its died.

[Thetan]

Im going to guess im classed as Habbox Lovers rofl. ;'] As i agreed the ban was alright.

Either way its died.


The only thing I think you don't get, is he did nothing wrong, infact he barely posted anything negative, and when he did he did not do it in a rude way. It was his opinion.

[bo$$]

I think that something people should learn is that no matter what the person in power says about free speech, etc. as soon as you get onto someones bad side, everything changes.

I read a lot of Undertakers posts and they are very logical and aren't like most of the posts I see on this forum. Sure he has said some bad things about habbox management, but so what? That's LIFE. Management can't really expect to impress everyone and have everyone online to be 100% loyal and not disagree with them on anything.

I do think that there is a little bit of an issue on this forum about free speech and I do think that he shouldn't have been banned.. but people need to hop off his jock and let him deal with it. I saw a guy in the other thread with like 21 out of the 62 posts in there.. not even really saying anything.

Bottom line is that if management decide that they are going to take away the freedom of speech, there's nothing really that anyone here can do about it...

[-Xiangu-]

The only thing I think you don't get, is he did nothing wrong, infact he barely posted anything negative, and when he did he did not do it in a rude way. It was his opinion.

Tbh I completely agree.

[jrh2002]

http://www.leasingnews.org/Placards/my_way.gif

[The Professor]

This still makes me laugh. I've posted it enough times before: Free speech is a fallacy, it doesn't exist. You have the right to say what you want, but with that comes the responsibility to use that right wisely and not to annoy/offend/insult people with it. When you ignore that responsibility, you lose the right and are punished accordingly.

[-Xiangu-]

Sorry. I won't comment I will get fired.

[GoldenMerc]

Im going to guess im classed as Habbox Lovers rofl. ;'] As i agreed the ban was alright.

Either way its died.
I said Habbox lovers, As like people who go 'HHGS IS CRAP' COS I SAID SO, or dont realy defend there point, They just realy dont give evidence.
Your not your just 'Matt'
LOL
Ross

[today]

I said Habbox lovers, As like people who go 'HHGS IS CRAP' COS I SAID SO, or dont realy defend there point, They just realy dont give evidence.
Your not your just 'Matt'
LOL
Ross
Oh in that case everything is just marving! ;]

[Plank]

http://www.klisia.net/blog/swastika.png

[Boonzeet]

Mhmm. It's like you can hardly say Tibet in China without being arrested.

The world is just gotten crap.

But does this forum have to become crap?

Think on that, people in power.

[-Xiangu-]

Mhmm. It's like you can hardly say Tibet in China without being arrested.

The world is just gotten crap.

But does this forum have to become crap?

Think on that, people in power.

Prepare to be warned :).

[Boonzeet]

As a message to all admins and moderators. I take back the post before Nakumuri's.

[-Xiangu-]

You have learned well young one!

[Inseriousity.]

'It's a free country. I can say what I bloody well please'

Unfortunately, that's not the case because some people hate you. It's happened throughout history where outspoken members of a population have been asassinated (in worst case scenario) or subjected to verbal abuse.

For example: Martin Luther King and Jesus himself (if you believe in that of course because not everyone does but just an example). - Asassinated and crucified in worst torture method ever created by humans :(

[bo$$]

As a message to all admins and moderators. I take back the post before Nakumuri's.

Why?

Some admins and mods = ******* dictators who just ban for the **** of it because someone ******* challenges them.

kk

:D

[Boonzeet]

Why?

Some admins and mods = ******* dictators who just ban for the **** of it because someone ******* challenges them.

kk

:D

Had to take it back, I represent Habbox and am part of the Habbox staff community. I suggest you edit your post, I do not want you to be banned.

[danandthe3gifts]

This still makes me laugh. I've posted it enough times before: Free speech is a fallacy, it doesn't exist. You have the right to say what you want, but with that comes the responsibility to use that right wisely and not to annoy/offend/insult people with it. When you ignore that responsibility, you lose the right and are punished accordingly.

However I did not insult anyone/offend anyone, all I posted was about the ione Gifts, which is a thorn in managements' side it seems. This negative rule (which isn't even written down in the banning thread) was purely intended to pick off the people who will say something if they disagree.

[-Xiangu-]

I agree

[Thetan]

Why let this die? I will keep making these threads intill something is done.

I don't care if this does nothing, I don't want it to be forgotten, I want changes in the way people handle others opinions.

[Fugato]

This still makes me laugh. I've posted it enough times before: Free speech is a fallacy, it doesn't exist. You have the right to say what you want, but with that comes the responsibility to use that right wisely and not to annoy/offend/insult people with it. When you ignore that responsibility, you lose the right and are punished accordingly.
As I said in another thread:


Maybe in your eyes, mate, but other peoples eyes it means something.

Also, agreed Thetan

[Wootzeh]

The Administrators of habboxforum.com may terminate/remove/transfer/modify/limit your service at any time without notice.
:rolleyes:

[Florx]

Free speech DOES exist. However you have to be alone in a soundproof box.

In normal day-to-day terms everything has a consequence. For example racism is frowned up because its discrimination, e.t.c.

I speak my mind however it is tastefully done unless I am angry at which point all sense goes out of the window.


EDIT: Just reread the thread: If you don't like the way management deals with comments on the forum

1) Don't post,
2) Leave.

I think the management of this forum do a great job. Some decisions at times I will disagree with however they are human just like us and do make mistakes.

And most people must think the same or why would there be
Threads: 454,367, Posts: 4,311,756, Members: 36,520

Thanks,
Jake.

[---MAD---]

Well, it should be valued, and respected no matter how negative it is. I know, alot of users are going to reply "JUST DROP IT!". But do you know what, I won't. I will "kick up a fuss", because recently somebody got banned for speaking his mind. The "habbox lovers" excuse was: He always posts negatively. But did he? No, he occasionally posted an opinion, that differed from everyone elses. Was it negative? You could say it was, Im sure I would be irritated too if somebody advertised their website a bit, saying theirs was better. But he never said habbox was bad, he has been trying to help it. I enjoyed having him on here, he posted alot of good stuff. What has this forum come to?
What do you class as free speech if I may ask?

[Boonzeet]

Being able to give an opinion, say something that needs said, even criticize without being banned!

[Thetan]

What do you class as free speech if I may ask?


Well I don't know what habbox thinks is free speech, but I am quite sure it is the ability to give your opinion, without getting banned.

[Mr.Sam]

- You give us the right (WITHOUT ANY PRIOR NOTICE) to edit, caution, temporarily ban or permanently ban, as well as your IP, or take any other measurements that we feel necessary.

- The Administrators of habboxforum.com may terminate/remove/transfer/modify/limit your service at any time without notice.


he signed these terms upon sign up, they used them.

end of :)


Well I don't know what habbox thinks is free speech, but I am quite sure it is the ability to give your opinion, without getting banned.

[--ss--]

Free speech doesn't exist and never will any where. Name me a place where you can do anything you want and say anything you want without getting punished?

Habbox alows free speech upto a certain point just like any where else in the world.

[Thetan]

- You give us the right (WITHOUT ANY PRIOR NOTICE) to edit, caution, temporarily ban or permanently ban, as well as your IP, or take any other measurements that we feel necessary.

- The Administrators of habboxforum.com may terminate/remove/transfer/modify/limit your service at any time without notice.


he signed these terms upon sign up, they used them.

end of :)



Does that mean it is right? I see lots of others posting their opinions, yet the one they don't agree with gets banned? Is that right to you? If it honestly is, then I promise I will leave.

[Mr.Sam]

Hi, you obviously haven't been on the forum long enough to know all about this 'free speech' saga.

as stated before it's in the terms and conditions which everybody signed up to, they used the terms don't complain.
everyone agreed to the terms upon sign up so complaining only makes these people look like fools.

I would suggest you stop jumping on the ''we want free speech'' bandwagon if you haven't taken the time to actually read the forums terms and conditions.


Does that mean it is right? I see lots of others posting their opinions, yet the one they don't agree with gets banned? Is that right to you? If it honestly is, then I promise I will leave.

[toyboy999]

undertaker has asked me to post this here.



I can't reply on my own at the moment because my accounts are being banned. Firstly on -:undertaker:- I always post construtively against Management when I do, so to those who are saying I don't post properly, rethink that.

Secondly on my second account, ---MAD--- closed the threads and banned me, the ban reason was - registering to post negatively. Now i'm sorry but, how am I supposed to post postively about a pathetic rule?

Thirdly on my third account which I signed up on around an hour ago, I sent a PM to ---MAD--- appealing my ban and it wasn't at all rude. I was banned instantly.

---MAD--- closed that thread saying we do not discuss bans publically, fair enough. However how the hell am I supposed to appeal when I am being banned instantly? I was banned om -:undertaker:- because I was discussing the ione Gifts, not because I was having a go at management which I wasn't. This 'rule' which isn't even mentioned in the FAQS or the banning information thread is purely designed to ban people who will speak up if another member is banned unfairly or a move is made by forum management which is extremly unpopular. We have seen it before with GommeInc. Why is it that you have to run HabboxForum which is a active forum, with a community which pulls together when things are wrong like a Soviet Union or Nazi Germany. The comparison is large yes, however the ideals aren't. The truth is that now people who are disliked by management are banned under twisted and bent rules designed to introduce silence. I am not against Habbox, infact I often help Immenseman with the Rare Values. I post ideas for Habbox. Alas, it seems all of this has been ignored in a moment on madness by Habbox Management.

I ask you not to ban my next HxF account because I am appealing, because I am right and you are wrong. May I ask how is being in Management any fun when you are strongly hated by the majority of the forum?

I'd like to thank those of you who have been fighting for me to be unbanned just like I woudl with anyone on the forum - not because I am bitter about being fired as Rare Values Manager but because I speak my mind.

[Bef]

HE HAD A BLOODY SWASTIKA IN HIS SIG! DO YOU ACTUALLY UNDERSTAND WHY THAT WOULD OFFEND PEOPLE? IT WILL OFFEND PEOPLE!
EVERYONE HAS A RIGHT TO THEIR OWN VIEWS BUT NOBODY HAS A RIGHT TO INSULT OTHER PEOPLE AND HAVING A SWASTIKA IN YOUR SIG IS AN INSULT!
NOW JUST BLOODY DROP IT!

[GommeInc]

undertaker has asked me to post this here.
I agree entirely with his view on Habbox, if I could be bothered to write an essay for the council to discuss about how absn work, then I wuld, but I doubt anything will ever come of it.

People shouldn't be immediately banned, it's pathetic and shows how lazy and unprofessional some individuals are, they probably shouldn't even have such powers on this forum. Banning some instantly never works, it's the cowards way out. If they were social, they would ask a member why they are doing whatever they are doing, and give them a fair, honest view which is coming from a robot/someone with something lodged far up their backside, which I have seen countless times in the Complaints/Feedback forum.


HE HAD A BLOODY SWASTIKA IN HIS SIG! DO YOU ACTUALLY UNDERSTAND WHY THAT WOULD OFFEND PEOPLE? IT WILL OFFEND PEOPLE!
EVERYONE HAS A RIGHT TO THEIR OWN VIEWS BUT NOBODY HAS A RIGHT TO INSULT OTHER PEOPLE AND HAVING A SWASTIKA IN YOUR SIG IS AN INSULT!
NOW JUST BLOODY DROP IT!
So? Could of asked politely than have a hissy fit. My small violin and worlds saddest song book aren't near me right now, I would play a song for you :rolleyes:

[Florx]

You break a rule and depeding on the severity you get banned.

The staff have to follow the same rules as every other member.

[RussianDanovar]

You break a rule and depeding on the severity you get banned.

The staff have to follow the same rules as every other member.

However I haven't broken a rule :S. Anyway ive PM'd sierk, I just hope he has some common sense. Thanks Gomme anyway. :8

[Florx]

Ban him pl0x.

oj.

Well as the terms say they can ban you with out reason at any time.

[risque]

Sorry but peoples rights to give their opinion here died when the likes of Dave left. It hasn't been as good, since.

[jrh2002]

- You give us the right (WITHOUT ANY PRIOR NOTICE) to edit, caution, temporarily ban or permanently ban, as well as your IP, or take any other measurements that we feel necessary.

- The Administrators of habboxforum.com may terminate/remove/transfer/modify/limit your service at any time without notice.


he signed these terms upon sign up, they used them.

end of :)

I made the terms and conditions aftter I signed up but I clearly stated for my own account that it may never as owner or even normal member be banned and any T&C's introduced do not affect the 1st ever account made on HxF :) so does that actually mean I can do what I like?

[GommeInc]

Ban him pl0x.

oj.

Well as the terms say they can ban you with out reason at any time.
Indeed it does, but it means you don't know how to handle the situation and ban just because you can. It makes management look like fools when no reason is given, or a good one that is just automated, very unprofessional.

[Catzsy]

Well as far as I am concerned 'Free Speech' means that you should be able to voice your opinion without fear provided you don't insult or demean anybody else in the process. I can see why staff are perhaps restricted in this area as it does not do morale any good but quite honestly as far as members are concerned they should be able to make up their own minds about other's opinions as on the whole they are mature enough to see
what is just posted to wind people up and what is not.

[Thetan]

The mods are power hungry. That is just it. They can abuse their right to ban anyone for no reason all they want, but I can tell you right now, this forum is going to crash and burn if mods ban people left right and center for speaking their mind. Negative or not, opinions are allowed everywhere. Dan got banned because he spoke his mind before, and people did not like what he said. But he said it in a polite manner, he did not cause trouble all the time, he only brought it up when somebody else tried to bring it up.

The truth is, we can't do anything. That does not mean I am letting their snide comments bring me down.

[Slowpoke]

The mods are power hungry. That is just it. They can abuse their right to ban anyone for no reason all they want, but I can tell you right now, this forum is going to crash and burn if mods ban people left right and center for speaking their mind. Negative or not, opinions are allowed everywhere. Dan got banned because he spoke his mind before, and people did not like what he said. But he said it in a polite manner, he did not cause trouble all the time, he only brought it up when somebody else tried to bring it up.

The truth is, we can't do anything. That does not mean I am letting their snide comments bring me down.

Moderators do not ban people for the sake of it - I can tell you that now.

[Thetan]

Moderators do not ban people for the sake of it - I can tell you that now.


How do you know? Did Danandthe3gifts not just get banned for appealing a ban?

[jrh2002]

How do you know? Did Danandthe3gifts not just get banned for appealing a ban?

Thats not the mods thats the GM from what I hear.
If thats the case then Dan was banned because theres a personal issue between him and the person banning him because it was not for a serious rule break.

[Florx]

Where is that written?

[Thetan]

Yeah, another thing that bugs me is that people said he was causing mayhem.

Well if anybody here does not know what debating is, then they should know it is a discussion, between people of opposing viewpoints.

[Adzeh]

There is no such thing as free speech, anywhere in the world tbh.

You can say whatever you want, but you will ultimately get punished somehow if you say the wrong thing.

Get over it.

Is this like, the fourth thread related to Undertaker's ban now?

[Thetan]

There is no such thing as free speech, anywhere in the world tbh.

You can say whatever you want, but you will ultimately get punished somehow if you say the wrong thing.

Get over it.

Is this like, the fourth thread related to Undertaker's ban now?


Yep, is this the fourth post you have made telling me to get over it? Why don't you get over the fact that dan and his supporters aren't going to let this die?

[RussianDanovar]

Yeah, another thing that bugs me is that people said he was causing mayhem.

Well if anybody here does not know what debating is, then they should know it is a discussion, between people of opposing viewpoints.



A forum is were viewpoints meet and debate, that is the whole idea of a forum. HabboxForum sadly at this time doesn't reflect it.

Originally Posted by Adzeh http://www.habboxforum.com/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.habboxforum.com/showthread.php?p=4647712#post4647712)
There is no such thing as free speech, anywhere in the world tbh.

You can say whatever you want, but you will ultimately get punished somehow if you say the wrong thing.

Get over it.

Is this like, the fourth thread related to Undertaker's ban now?


It's also my fourth account, ironic isn't it?

[Adzeh]

Yep, is this the fourth post you have made telling me to get over it? Why don't you get over the fact that dan and his supporters aren't going to let this die?

Well by all means carry on posting repetitive threads.

If it gets you anywhere then we will know for sure that the system doesn't work :).

Can you link me to my other three posts where I use the words "get over it" as well?

[Thetan]

Oh, nvm lol. I guess I mixed you up for all the other people who are telling me to get over it. Can't really tell the difference. They all say the same old argument.

[---MAD---]

Well I don't know what habbox thinks is free speech, but I am quite sure it is the ability to give your opinion, without getting banned.
Ok what if your opinion is offensive/disrepective towards another member?

Being able to give an opinion, say something that needs said, even criticize without being banned!
Same question to you :).

Free speech doesn't exist and never will any where. Name me a place where you can do anything you want and say anything you want without getting punished?

Habbox alows free speech upto a certain point just like any where else in the world.
Exactly :). Free speech is void as soon as there are rules/laws in place. To truly have "free speech" a forum must have no rules and no moderation because anything said would be classed as a breech of free speech.

What would happen if you swore/insulted someone on the street randomly? My guess is you would get your head kicked in ;). If free speech existed, you should be allowed to say whatever you want to anyone without anything happening to you.

Most the time people don't even know the complications of free speech but randomly use it against a person to try to shut them up.

Habbox Forum is not a right but a service. If you wish to use the service you have to follow our rules and ways of going about things just as you would if you moved countries, you would have to follow the laws they have in place and respect them and how they got about things. If you don't like their laws, then you should obviously not move there and consider else where. That's the reason for the TC agreement when you want to register at any site/forum or use any software.

[The Professor]

How do you know? Did Danandthe3gifts not just get banned for appealing a ban?

He knows because moderators do not have the ability to ban :)

[Thetan]

He knows because moderators do not have the ability to ban :)


Oh. Well now I feel a bit stupid.

Anyways, the point is that his opinion was neither disrespectful or offensive, it was just different and not a reason for a permanent ban. Not a good reason anyway.

[Catzsy]

Oh. Well now I feel a bit stupid.

Anyways, the point is that his opinion was neither disrespectful or offensive, it was just different and not a reason for a permanent ban. Not a good reason anyway.

Well moderators do but they have to be Super to do it. So essentially you are both right. :P

[RussianDanovar]

Ok what if your opinion is offensive/disrepective towards another member?

Same question to you :).

Exactly :). Free speech is void as soon as there are rules/laws in place. To truly have "free speech" a forum must have no rules and no moderation because anything said would be classed as a breech of free speech.

What would happen if you swore/insulted someone on the street randomly? My guess is you would get your head kicked in ;). If free speech existed, you should be allowed to say whatever you want to anyone without anything happening to you.

Most the time people don't even know the complications of free speech but randomly use it against a person to try to shut them up.

Habbox Forum is not a right but a service. If you wish to use the service you have to follow our rules and ways of going about things just as you would if you moved countries, you would have to follow the laws they have in place and respect them and how they got about things. If you don't like their laws, then you should obviously not move there and consider else where. That's the reason for the TC agreement when you want to register at any site/forum or use any software.

I have followed your rules & I have followed them well, look at my record. That rule isn't on the TC agreement & isn't even on your banning thread, therefore it isn't really a rule. The accouncement was made months ago, how do you expect me to remember sierk's announcement from months ago? - In the ione Gifts discussion thread I didn't bring up Habbox OR HHGS, the debate was purely on what people thought they should be classed as and I contributed and posted my belief, and that is that they are supers. On the fact Immenseman was questioning me over it I had a right to reply. If I was here to cause trouble, would I not be spamming the forum now calling you and management names and using foul language like a lot of this forum do?

I wasn't offensive or disrepectful, I never use foul language on this or any other forum. My arguements are always backed up whether in the political forums or Habbox Feedback forums, hell i'll even say it again - I help Immenseman with the rare values, and often post ideas. You yourself said in the banning thread that no one will be banned for posting an opinion. I don't just post my opinion, I justify it. I will PM you this as you aren't allowed to discuss it publically.

[Discharge Man]

Well as far as I am concerned 'Free Speech' means that you should be able to voice your opinion without fear provided you don't insult or demean anybody else in the process. I can see why staff are perhaps restricted in this area as it does not do morale any good but quite honestly as far as members are concerned they should be able to make up their own minds about other's opinions as on the whole they are mature enough to see
what is just posted to wind people up and what is not.
Part of my firing was due to voicing my opinion, hardly even criticizing - just giving a better way to do something and how something could be improved. I even got a PM saying something about 'Criticizing Habbox in public'.

I'm all for it but it'll never happen.

[GommeInc]

I have followed your rules & I have followed them well, look at my record. That rule isn't on the TC agreement & isn't even on your banning thread, therefore it isn't really a rule. The accouncement was made months ago, how do you expect me to remember sierk's announcement from months ago? - In the ione Gifts discussion thread I didn't bring up Habbox OR HHGS, the debate was purely on what people thought they should be classed as and I contributed and posted my belief, and that is that they are supers. On the fact Immenseman was questioning me over it I had a right to reply. If I was here to cause trouble, would I not be spamming the forum now calling you and management names and using foul language like a lot of this forum do?

I wasn't offensive or disrepectful, I never use foul language on this or any other forum. My arguements are always backed up whether in the political forums or Habbox Feedback forums, hell i'll even say it again - I help Immenseman with the rare values, and often post ideas. You yourself said in the banning thread that no one will be banned for posting an opinion. I don't just post my opinion, I justify it. I will PM you this as you aren't allowed to discuss it publically.
Oh yeah! There is no rule on being anti-Habbox! Plus, the terms and conditions most people signed up to have changed, so you will have to ask these people to agree to such terms and conditions before letting them even touch the forum.

[Fugato]

Oh yeah! There is no rule on being anti-Habbox! Plus, the terms and conditions most people signed up to have changed, so you will have to ask these people to agree to such terms and conditions before letting them even touch the forum.

LOL. ++rep, that's actually true.

So yeah (copies what GommeInc said). I signed up to a bunch of rules that have changed, I agreed the first set in like 2005, but not the current ones. (I'm an oldie on a new account).

Now I can swear, there was no rule on that in '05.

Thx GI.

[GommeInc]

LOL. ++rep, that's actually true.

So yeah (copies what GommeInc said). I signed up to a bunch of rules that have changed, I agreed the first set in like 2005, but not the current ones. (I'm an oldie on a new account).

Now I can swear, there was no rule on that in '05.

Thx GI.

The rules naturally you have to follow when they update, but as far as I can see in the terms and conditions, it doesn't say you have to follow any updates, which most T&Cs say.

[Thetan]

Free speech does not have to be a myth, it could become a reality if some people were a little less stubborn, and listened to the users and were willing to change. When I mean free speech, I mean you can have opinions that are different, and they can be positive or negative, as long as they are discussed politely.