The "Top" 4.

[Kasabian]

Well, I've had this argument with my friends for a while now, and I want some other opinions on it.
The top 4 is generally classed as Arsenal, Chelsea, Manchester United & Liverpool. But, in the past 5 years, how many times have Liverpool contested for the title? Ok sure, Liverpool have won the Champions league, but how many Premier league titles? I mean look at them this season, what have they done? Alright, through to the semi finals of the Champions league, but where do they lie in the league?

This also brings me onto another argument, this one about the Champions league. I personally believe that the only teams that should play in the Champions League should be the CHAMPIONS ONLY. Not the top 4, because that just ruins the name of 'Champions'. I mean ok sure, this year it's given us the chance to see how well English teams spar up against European opposition, but it still defies the name.

Your views on these two points?

[Pillsbury]

Its called the top four, and the four teams considered the top four, coincidentally are the teams that hold the top four positions in the league, so thats why.

If youre trying to bring up the point that because Liverpool havent won the league in 18 years then why not make it the top three, and to me, thats because Liverpool have finished 3rd and 2nd in the league in recent years. Maybe not 1st, but only one team can each year. Plus the Champions league is such a big thing, that it does actually count in making people think youre a good team.

[StefanCampbell]

It should be, the winner of the League, Winner of F.A Cup, Winner of Carling cup, then some sort of a play off between 3rd and 2nd in the league, or a league 1 sort of play off where teams from 2nd to 5th contest in a play-off, that way you have 3 champions to go into the champions league, and then a sort of wild card who just missed out on top spot in the League to get into the champions league, this would also start to make the F.A cup and Carling Cup more attractive to the big clubs, which in turn would make the football season much more exciting.

[Rarelime]

In terms of history Liverpool are one of the biggest teams in England, possibly Europe. That is why they are classed as top 4.

Edit - The champions league is devised as a competition to feature the best 3 or 4 clubs from leagues around Europe, not as a showcase of champions from the countries.

[Browney]

On the first point, it relates to your second. The top four are usually the teams that occupy the top four and get those Champions League positions.

On your second point, I disagree. We get 4 Champions League places to allocate because of the standard of the Premier League, nothing to do with us being an English league. Because we are such a strong league, we got 4 teams qualifying while other european smaller leagues will get less. Now, if the FA cup winners got to qualify it could be fairly likely that a lower league side could qualify for Europe, when they are really not at Europe's standards. Premiership teams are the best teams England has to offer. And probably the best representatives of the standard of English football.

[Andeeh]

Liverpool are the most successful english club in football and are in the top 4 best at the present time of english clubs

and to say only champions do champions league is stupid because there wouldnt be enough teams.

[Geraint]

It's called the top four because they are the 4 biggest clubs in England. If you were to ask someone in, lets just say, Japan, how many of them would have heard of Everton, Portsmouth and Aston Villa. It's easier to go to Everton and get a result than it is to go Anfield, Emirates or Stamford Bridge. The top four have the biggest players and the better players. Like I said before, how many people in Japan have heard of players such as Tim Howard, John Carew, Sylain Distin and David Nugent.

There used to be a competition for the winners but that competition was for dosmetic cup competitions. If you take this season for example, Tottenham won the Carling Cup, Portsmouth or Cardiff will win the F.A. cup and Manchester United will probably win the Premier League. Who would people rather watch, Liverpool, Manchester United, Chelsea and Arsenal or Tottenham, Portsmouth and Manchester United. If the competition was to be between the champions, there would be teams like the Romanian Champions, the Lithuanian champions and the Estonian champions. Who wants to see teams like that play? Surely, teams like AC Milan, Barcelona, Liverpool, Arsenal and Chelsea are better than them teams. The UEFA Cup was made more for teams like that, to give them the opportunity to play other teams in Europe who are near enough their same level of play.

[:G.M.T:]

Liverpool are the most successful english club in football and are in the top 4 best at the present time of english clubs

and to say only champions do champions league is stupid because there wouldnt be enough teams.

You mean was the most successful english club? Because you can't use the term 'are' as if you're still winning trophies because you aren't winning anything nowadays.

[StefanCampbell]

incase u int noticed, theyve got to the semi finals and beyond in the past 4 seasons of the champions league? and once it once?

Oh and btw, Places in Asia like japan and china are ALWAYS watching premier league no matter whos playing, thats why when you watch football matches live from your p.c off www.myp2p.eu the commentary and advertising is always in foreign languages.. why do you think the FA was thinking about playing a round of matches all around the world? because theres a lot of money to be made for hosting games abroad, even if it is the likes of Portsmouth V Aston Villa, because people abroad actually watch them.

[Rarelime]

You mean was the most successful english club? Because you can't use the term 'are' as if you're still winning trophies because you aren't winning anything nowadays.


Liverpool are classed as the most successful English team. They have won the League title 18 times, European trophy 5 times and both the FA and League cups 7 times each.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Football_records_in_England#Most_successful_clubs_ overall_.281888_-_present.29 - for proof ;).

[Tristan]

You mean was the most successful english club? Because you can't use the term 'are' as if you're still winning trophies because you aren't winning anything nowadays.


No, 'are' doesn't imply that.
'are' means, currently are the most successful english club because of their past amount of trophies. They are, because they currently have the most to date.

[:G.M.T:]

Ok, ok fair enough I interpret that differently to most people. But from a person who is from lets say germany they look at our top 4 and see that the most successful club hasn't won a trophy for years.

[Tristan]

Still the most successful, because they've won the most out of all the clubs in the league over so many years.

[:G.M.T:]

Fighting a losing battle here so going to stop :p It will all change in time :)

[Tristan]

Lol. :P
If a German looked, they'd say "best" rather than most successful. :)
And it sure will, Man Utd ftw. :)

[CJW93]

Or just keep the same system?
The fans decide. I mean any team can have a bad day on any given day.

[Xeck]

It's probably been said already but the they're called the 'Big Four' because in the last 5 seasons the four teams currently placed 1st-4th have finished 1st-4th, with the exception being the 04-05 seasons where Liverpool finished 5th and still qualified for the Champions League because they won it.

To your second point, the Champions League would lower significantly in importance if it only featured the winners of leagues around Europe. The competition would be severely lacking not only in length but in quality, because some world-class teams would miss out. The Champions League has been won by teams that didn't win their domestic league the season beforehand which clearly shows that you don't have to win your league to be a quality team in Europe. Without the top 3 or 4 teams around Europe's leagues featuring in the Champions League would lose it's tradition and would be far from one of the best tournaments in the world. Cardiff.City made a good point above that champions of leagues lacking in quality would be in the Champions League whereas far superior teams in the bigger leagues would miss out.

[lPinoy]

Liverpools last five premiership years:
2007/2008 - Currently 4th

2006/2007 - 3rd
2005/2006 - 3rd
2004/2005 - 5th (Qualified with exception)
2003/2004 - 4th
2002/2003 - 5th (Did not qualify for Champions League)

Liverpool have not been the most successful (in the league) in recent years but have over achieved, having won the league more than 15 times in earlier seasons.

Arsenal havent won the league in the past few years but they are a quality side and should be able to play, if they end the season as one of the 'big four'
Same goes with Manchester United, Chelsea, Liverpool and the rest of the clubs in Europe.

[Hoodstar]

Well, I've had this argument with my friends for a while now, and I want some other opinions on it.
The top 4 is generally classed as Arsenal, Chelsea, Manchester United & Liverpool. But, in the past 5 years, how many times have Liverpool contested for the title? Ok sure, Liverpool have won the Champions league, but how many Premier league titles? I mean look at them this season, what have they done? Alright, through to the semi finals of the Champions league, but where do they lie in the league?

This also brings me onto another argument, this one about the Champions league. I personally believe that the only teams that should play in the Champions League should be the CHAMPIONS ONLY. Not the top 4, because that just ruins the name of 'Champions'. I mean ok sure, this year it's given us the chance to see how well English teams spar up against European opposition, but it still defies the name.

Your views on these two points?

On your first point.. I don't think the term "top 4" has any relation to contesting the title, or how well they compete on the european stage.. it just generalises the 4 teams who consistently finish in the top 4 every year, which is Man U, Chelsea, Arsenal and Liverpool. Can't proclaim someone to be a "top 4" team if they don't finish in the top 4.. :S.

Secondly, I think people in England and Europe would much prefer to have 4 of englands best teams to compete in the CL instead of having the champions of unknown countries getting automatic access to the group stages.. I mean, teams who NEVER win any matches, or barely compete against bigger teams. What is the point in them being there? It'll just mean they'll automatically finish bottom and results in a garunteed 6 points home and away for the bigger teams, I'm sure they'd prefer better competition.

[Nereo]

If you just have the champions of each european league in champions league it just makes it a joke, with teams like AC milan, arsenal, Barcelona and others missing from the tournament becuase of there lack of Titles would make it rubbish. Afterall, the Norwegian champions arent going to be much of a challeng for Real Madrid, plus there would only be like 16 teams in the whole thing. So that wouldnt work ;)

Also the big argument about Liverpool and there successes, most came in the 70s and 80s, today they arent any where near the force they were, it wont tak long for Man Utd to overtake them in terms of league titles won and soon they will lose the status of "most succesful english club" simply because they arent winning enough. Afterall you look at this season and you see them having to battle with everton and other teams to secure fourth spot, if they were really one of the giants of the game they would have secured that long ago and have been looking to challenge for the title. :D

[Dr.Rdx]

The Top 4 are named as such because they're the most successful English clubs in English football history.