Keygens?

[DaveTaylor]

http://www.habboxforum.com/showthread.php?t=482552

Should this really be allowed?

Edited by ---MAD--- (General Manager): Thread locked. This has already been discussed before and we have said we will continue to allow it unless an official from a company (or their lawers) contact us in regards it.

DMCA law shields Web site owners from copyright infringement involving material published by users. The "safe harbor" provision in the law can protect against infringement claims as long as copyrighted material is removed upon notification.
Please also note that we do not host any of these keygens or any software on our servers that people can download illegally. They are avaliable else where on the internet. Google, and other search engines provide links to torrent sites etc so I see no harm here that people are linking to keygens (keygen can only be used if you have the software downloaded illegally first anyway).

[Wootzeh]

Yes it should. and nothing is going to change.

[Xarea]

Yes, and there's nothing they are going to do about it.

[Mr.Sam]

I complained when cheekykarl was asking for one a few months ago elkaa said it was fine. :S

[Leetzgirl]

Might as well post warez :D

[N!ck]

They shouldn't be allowed, and besides if people want to be using keygens they should at least be able to obtain their own.

[DaveTaylor]

I am sure there was a issue with something like this before and Vbulletin closed the board due to the legality issues with Microsoft or any other companies.. however I can't recall the board etc.

[-Xiangu-]

It should be allowed in my opinion.

[Recursion]

But they are risking their vB license.

[The Professor]

Should is a very subjective word ;)

It shouldn't be allowed ideally, but it isn't killing anyone except the companies. If people are that desperate, I'm sure google could provide them with the results anyway, we're just cutting out the middle man ;)

[Jamesy]

But they are risking their vB license.

if you put it in code tags it doesn't break the BV t&c I read somewhere, they could enforce that rule.

[Leetzgirl]

if you put it in code tags it doesn't break the BV t&c I read somewhere, they could enforce that rule.


Aye, that is true :)

[samsaBEAR]

i find it funny how they wont unfilter words, or other little things like that because it's against the habbo way, but they'll allow people to illegally steal from companies

[nvrspk4]

Well, since the user already got what he wanted I just moved it out of the public eye for a minute so nobody else uses that while we figure out what to do.

We have to check the legality of it as that may be an issue, also with us in the running to become official I believe there is a clause that we have to respect copyrights...so that may be an issue as well.

Personally I'm against doing things like this, however I think the policy issued by either Freak or MAD was that its not really our business to get involved in copyright disputes. We'll try and have a decision on this soon.

[GommeInc]

Well, since the user already got what he wanted I just moved it out of the public eye for a minute so nobody else uses that while we figure out what to do.

We have to check the legality of it as that may be an issue, also with us being in the running to become official I believe there is a clause that we have to respect copyrights...so that may be an issue as well.

Personally I'm against doing things like this, however I think the policy issued by either Freak or MAD was that its not really our business to get involved in copyright disputes. We'll try and have a decision on this soon.
I think it's against the law to post copyrighted content on a forum without the creators consent, or that's what the copyright documents on some site I'm reading mention :P Although some parts say it's only illegal in the US, so in theory it is allowed on here if that's true, because the forum is mainly a UK based community. You could always limit posting keygens, keycodes and torrent files to PM - how you'll go about that would be the question, unless you create a thread in the technology discussions forum underlining this and make sure whoever the moderators are around the forum keep an eye out and tell the users to keep it to PM.

[Elkaa]

As with that Nvr said, due to us being on track to be official we're discussing the possible re-implementation of this rule to no longer allow it.

[HotelUser]

I think it's against the law to post copyrighted content on a forum without the creators consent, or that's what the copyright documents on some site I'm reading mention :P Although some parts say it's only illegal in the US, so in theory it is allowed on here if that's true, because the forum is mainly a UK based community. You could always limit posting keygens, keycodes and torrent files to PM - how you'll go about that would be the question, unless you create a thread in the technology discussions forum underlining this and make sure whoever the moderators are around the forum keep an eye out and tell the users to keep it to PM.

I personally believe Habbox shouldn't be affiliated with sharing copyrighted materials. The laws depending on country differ. I believe in the USA, Canada and UK, one is permitted to index a file as long as they're not hosting it on their server. The users who host the illegal files are usually in foreign countries, where the laws they abide by don't prevent them from sharing copyrighted material.

On the note that I believe Habbox shouldn't be involved with the sharing of copyrighted material, It may or may not put Habbox in legal danger, however it most certianly puts the forum users in danger when they're downloading the files. At the very least I believe the copyrighted sharing rule should be revoked because we don't want users getting in trouble for what they clicked on on HxF.

[Catzsy]

Well, since the user already got what he wanted I just moved it out of the public eye for a minute so nobody else uses that while we figure out what to do.

We have to check the legality of it as that may be an issue, also with us having become official I believe there is a clause that we have to respect copyrights...so that may be an issue as well.

Personally I'm against doing things like this, however I think the policy issued by either Freak or MAD was that its not really our business to get involved in copyright disputes. We'll try and have a decision on this soon.

It was about a year ago so it was MAD bearing to pressure of some but I never understood the change. It seemed to give Habbox a loss of credibility.

I do think that Habbo would have issue with anything that could be seen to tarnish its reputation in any way so I think a full reversal to the original rules would be in order. I think under the European Enforcement Copyright Directive and DCMA Act it is most definitely illegal and unfortunately the T&Cs, as worded, would not give Habbox any protection against shutdown or prosecution at all in my view. Sulake is also very quick in shutting sites down under the DCMA act and I am sure will be checking this forum regularly now.

[GommeInc]

I personally believe Habbox shouldn't be affiliated with sharing copyrighted materials. The laws depending on country differ. I believe in the USA, Canada and UK, one is permitted to index a file as long as they're not hosting it on their server. The users who host the illegal files are usually in foreign countries, where the laws they abide by don't prevent them from sharing copyrighted material.

On the note that I believe Habbox shouldn't be involved with the sharing of copyrighted material, It may or may not put Habbox in legal danger, however it most certianly puts the forum users in danger when they're downloading the files. At the very least I believe the copyrighted sharing rule should be revoked because we don't want users getting in trouble for what they clicked on on HxF.
Habbox can say "Do so at your own risk" so they don't get any blame nor can they take any, and most people who use torrents should know what they're doing, if not, well that's there problem :P

And BOOO at Habbox being official, no benefits from it what so ever!

[today]

I say keep, HabboxF has some good keygens ect from users, and i really cba to register on another site to ask. lol.

/lazy.

[shizzle]

Nope its illegal and they are still voiding this for not paying for software.

[GommeInc]

I say keep, HabboxF has some good keygens ect from users, and i really cba to register on another site to ask. lol.

/lazy.
Plus it's technically not illegal as HotelUser said, because you only get trouble if you host the torrents/files :P (Unless I read that wrong).

[HotelUser]

Plus it's technically not illegal as HotelUser said, because you only get trouble if you host the torrents/files :P (Unless I read that wrong).


Providing torrent links isn't necessary illegal. All that is within a torrent is writing. The ones seeding the torrent are the hosts of the file.



Habbox can say "Do so at your own risk" so they don't get any blame nor can they take any, and most people who use torrents should know what they're doing, if not, well that's there problem :P

And BOOO at Habbox being official, no benefits from it what so ever!


True however I don't believe one can justify it like that, sure it's legitimate, but it wouldn't change the fact that the user got in trouble from a link on Habbox Forum.

[GommeInc]

Providing torrent links isn't necessary illegal. All that is within a torrent is writing. The ones seeding the torrent are the hosts of the file.





True however I don't believe one can justify it like that, sure it's legitimate, but it wouldn't change the fact that the user got in trouble from a link on Habbox Forum.
Although that may seem like sense, you can't exactly blame WHSmith's for giving you a paper cut or Cadbury's for indigestion (if such a thing exists with chocolate). If they can't take care of their own actions on the internet, then they probably shouldn't be allowed to go on the computer. Also, doesn't the terms and conditions cover something about posts/threads etc are the views and responsibility of the user, not the forum or owners?

[Catzsy]

Although that may seem like sense, you can't exactly blame WHSmith's for giving you a paper cut or Cadbury's for indigestion (if such a thing exists with chocolate). If they can't take care of their own actions on the internet, then they probably shouldn't be allowed to go on the computer. Also, doesn't the terms and conditions cover something about posts/threads etc are the views and responsibility of the user, not the forum or owners?

Doesn't mean that Habbox can get out of any legal responsibilty that way especially the way it is worded and also it says that all posts content belong to Habbox once they are posted so unless they remove any offending parts it is quite logical to assume that any illegal keygens and copyright breaches posted become their responsibilty as they have taken ownership of the content. That's the way I read it anyway.


- We can (WITHOUT ANY PRIOR NOTICE) edit, close/lock, move, duplicated or publish any of your osted content because as soon as it is posted, you are the author of the content, but it becomes property of Habbox UK Forum.

[Leetzgirl]

I seen many forums with vb and they post links

why not this one?

[Galaxay]

I just personally contact the company owning the product (i.e. Spacial Audio, Adobe, Microsoft, etc) As i made a thread about this before and they said its fine, which is against the law. Which we have a huge rant before and i won't restart it. :)

[HotelUser]

Doesn't mean that Habbox can get out of any legal responsibilty that way especially the way it is worded and also it says that all posts content belong to Habbox once they are posted so unless they remove any offending parts it is quite logical to assume that any illegal keygens and copyright breaches posted become their responsibilty as they have taken ownership of the content. That's the way I read it anyway.


- We can (WITHOUT ANY PRIOR NOTICE) edit, close/lock, move, duplicated or publish any of your osted content because as soon as it is posted, you are the author of the content, but it becomes property of Habbox UK Forum.

Totally correct, once the poster posts the content is on Habbox's servers, making it their responsibility.


I seen many forums with vb and they post links

why not this one?


Those forums are typically only intended for the sole purpose to share illegal downloads, and are sometimes based in other countries, so they're not at fault. The intentions of Habbox Forum aren't to share download links.

[Mr.OSH]

As I've said before - I personally believe that the chances of any legal dispute due to the fact that none of the illegal content is hosted on the site is fairly low. However on the most part I can only assume that any company/authority making a complaint about specific links or content on the site would offer Habbox the opportunity to remove the link before any legal action was taken and of course if requested by a legal authority or company I think they probably would. However you have to consider that the legal implications and much greater for those who are hosting the actual illegal content and it is likely that companies will make an attempt to shut the host down or get them to remove the illegal content, look at it this way - there are many sites who have hyper linked to illegal content and there are lots of them who are doing it on a MUCH bigger scale than what you will find on Habbox.

If a company shuts down a host or request the remove of content and it works the link will no work any more and therefore the issue is solved. Going around to lots of various forums trying to get links removed is more impractical than anything and most companies would want to avoid taking legal action if they could.

Personally I think the chances of Habbox getting in trouble for not removing the odd thread or two created by users which contains keygens etc is low and even if Habbox did make an attempt to remove them the chances are some would be missed as the moderation system isn't absolutely fool proof. At the end of the day it isn't causing a problem and I doubt it will but I'm sure if it ever did then the management could sort it out - I doubt many people would take a forum who's users had posted the odd thread which contain illegal links and take legal action. Most companies want to avoid that if possible. [This is all based on my own opinion/presumptions - it is just what I think :P]

[--ss--]

I believe the keygens should stay as they are not harming anyone but helping new users who can't get their own and well helps the forum get traffic in some ways as people won't have to go to external sites for them (which usually are unsafe).
I also hope that the forum does not have to abide the Official fansite rules as Habboxforum won't be the site that's official , it would be Habbox.com which is on a completely different server so I don't see why Habbo should be able to wreck the forum and change it into what ever they want.

Also keys gens are just a bunch off few numbers and text, surely there can't be any copyright claims against keygens , maybe with the actual program but not the serial codes themselves.
The only people that can complain about this are the people who have never used any 'illegal' keygens/cracks/programs and fully paid for everything and quite frankly there aren't many of those people around.

[Galaxay]

I'd laugh if Habbox did get taken down for legal reasons, seems they need a wake up call.

I mean i argued about this a while ago, they said its fine (which was idiotic of them) as its not breaking habbo way (LOL@THAT), now since they want to become official their enforcing the rules, because official status?

If you ever see Habbox servers hosting files (such as sam on HxL or keygens just contact the owner of the company, as i do anytime, such as i've made various reports to Spacial audio about habbox)

[iFuseDan]

I will point out for the owners of Habbox something of importance:
The US Code covers not only usage but also the development, manufacture, distribution, importation, and advertisement of any software or hardware designed to circumvent copy protection techniques. Thus, anyone who worked on the development of the crack/keygen, anyone who distributed it, and anyone who uses it is committing a crime.

Reviewing the AUP of the company you use to either lease or colo the server this is on (SoftLayer - www.softlayer.com (http://www.softlayer.com)) - http://www.softlayer.com/aup.html

Copied directly from:


The following list represents per se direct violations of Acceptable Use Policy and will be subject to immediate redress under the methods of resolution as described in the acceptable use policy.

Copyright Infringement: Direct copyright infringement as defined and noted under Title 17, Section 512 of the United States Code are a direct violation of the acceptable use policy. Please refer to DMCA copyright infringement requirements at http://www.softlayer.com/legal.html (http://www.softlayer.com/legal.html)

Illegal Use: Any use of dedicated services in direct attempt of statutory illegal activities is a direct violation of the acceptable use policy. This includes, but is not limited to: death threats, terroristic threats, threats of harm to another individual, multi-level marketing schemes, "ponzi schemes", invasion of privacy, credit card fraud, racketeering, defamation, slander, and other common illegal activities.

If your provider were to have the links published to them showing your site hosting keys which are published to circumvent copy protection you then fall under breach of the AUP provided - linking to keygens is about the same - I can post you to news articles where the owner of a site hosting links to keygens / warez etc was actually arrested / fined.

Perhaps you should think about the survival of this forum before openly allowing people to post keygens and other keys?

[Recursion]

owned.

[Judge Judy]

Really it's against vB rules to do stuff like this (so I hear). Erm, I think it's OK to post keygens, but if it's in risk of closure then really you shouldn't be allowing keygens etcetc.

Unless you move the server to Sweden where they have different rules to USA UK Canada.

[HotelUser]

I believe the keygens should stay as they are not harming anyone but helping new users who can't get their own and well helps the forum get traffic in some ways as people won't have to go to external sites for them (which usually are unsafe).
I also hope that the forum does not have to abide the Official fansite rules as Habboxforum won't be the site that's official , it would be Habbox.com which is on a completely different server so I don't see why Habbo should be able to wreck the forum and change it into what ever they want.

Also keys gens are just a bunch off few numbers and text, surely there can't be any copyright claims against keygens , maybe with the actual program but not the serial codes themselves.
The only people that can complain about this are the people who have never used any 'illegal' keygens/cracks/programs and fully paid for everything and quite frankly there aren't many of those people around.


But we're providing these users with illegal files (that may also include Trojans to infect their computers, or other infections). I thought that would be sufficient to prevent further distribution on Habbox Fourm.

When the DCMA bites, they bite hard. Many of us are probably aware of what's happened with Mr.Svartholm in Sweden (I wont disclose the website). Even though he was not in violation with the law, local police still took actions against his website. The laws for the distibution of keygens, serials and other material of the same genera, is to an extent vague. It does depend on what action the company being hurt desires to do as well. But the chance of Habbox getting in legal trouble due to this, is in my opinion too high to risk.