My first day with Google Adsense..

[crans]

I made a new website yesterday and decided to use Adsense.

I've earned so far (day hasn't ended :D) $61.81

http://www.zezmo.com/sc4/1211073912.PNG (http://www.zezmo.com)

Anyone else use Adsense and what are you making daily?

Thread Closed by brandon (Forum Moderator): To prevent further arguments

[Protege]

You know, not that im saying you are though but you can get banned if you "cheat" adverts or click them yourselves.

[crans]

You know, not that im saying you are though but you can get banned if you "cheat" adverts or click them yourselves.
erm great, thanks for that but thats the most obvious thing going..

and why did you write that? I wouldn't click my own ads.

my site(s) get more traffic then Habbo UK..

[Protege]

I said that cause some people don't read their pathetic TOS. What website your ads on?



http://client.alexa.com/common/images/shim.gif
MovieShares - Watch & Download Free Movies Online.
Movieshares.co.uk has a traffic rank of: 29,967




http://client.alexa.com/common/images/shim.gif
Moderated, visual chat with custom character avatars. [Requires Shockwave]
Habbo.co.uk has a traffic rank of: 11,024


Yawn

[crans]

I said that cause some people don't read their pathetic TOS. What website your ads on?





Yawn
*yawns* ranks doesn't matter it can catch up depending on when Alexa updates.. try comparing the traffic charts.. so clever one. o yh plus habbo.co.uk been around nearly 2 twos and rank 11,024 is poorly..

http://www.alexa.com/data/details/traffic_details/movieshares.co.uk

try comparing it to Habbo.co.uk (Y)

[Niko Bellic]

My mate used that and got over £200 in a week and then Google decided to close his account down because apparently he was getting people on the forum to click them every day which was total bull.

Let's hope yours doesn't get banned, and yeah, that's pretty nice for one day. ;)

[crans]

My mate used that and got over £200 in a week and then Google decided to close his account down because apparently he was getting people on the forum to click them every day which was total bull.

Let's hope yours doesn't get banned, and yeah, that's pretty nice for one day. ;)
$400 for a forum? wow must of been alot of clicks cause forums get pretty low CTR/CPM.

and mine won't get banned and yer thanks i've had $83.67 now :)

[Niko Bellic]

You probably know him Ryan (PkScapeX) which was yonks ago when me and you used to like play, he got a few average clicks per day and then they banned him, he was pretty pissed 'cos that was ment to pay for his vps. :P

[Agnostic Bear]

$400 for a forum? wow must of been alot of clicks cause forums get pretty low CTR/CPM.

and mine won't get banned and yer thanks i've had $83.67 now :)

Sounds good with the money you're getting.

Say, do you remember Enumeric?

[crans]

Sounds good with the money you're getting.

Say, do you remember Enumeric?
maybe name sounds fimiliar to when i played Habbo.

[Agnostic Bear]

maybe name sounds fimiliar to when i played Habbo.

Ya that's where I know you from.

[flatface]

Yeh, sounds good. You've got yourself a nice little earner there. :P

[Fehm]

Cool mate :) Good luck.. Hope ya dont get banned :P

[crans]

Yeh, sounds good. You've got yourself a nice little earner there. :P
Yeah lol, I've been making $x,xxx online for while now.

the day is over now and nice little £60 made!

http://www.zezmo.com/sc4/1211093679.PNG (http://www.zezmo.com)

[Liberation]

Very nice amount there! If I remember correctly you can now cash your money in, well get it sent to you in a check from Google as your over $100, so I would personally do that just INCASE you do get banned, as I personally have been banned for being accused of self-clicking my adds, and know many others that have aswell.

[blanky12!]

Yes, very nice indeed. What site are you using adsense on? As if your using it on movieshares... You can be banned.. I think

[Joshuae]

I earned, a bit too much or so Google thought and they banned my account ><

[--ss--]

Wow, by any chance are they on a porn site or something O.o
That's an obscene amount of money to be getting from google ads, I wonder how much HxF gets from 'em.

[Rafiki]

Awww i wish i had a site tht i could do tht but me dont have paypal :D

[Misawa]

I just reported MovieShares to FACT for copyright infringement.

[Lycan]

I just reported MovieShares to FACT for copyright infringement.

I think you'll find a hard time finding someone here who cares

[Joshuae]

I just reported MovieShares to FACT for copyright infringement.

Good one. :)
The site is run by naive fools who haven't got a clue.

[Misawa]

I think you'll find a hard time finding someone here who cares

It doesn't bother me who here cares. 30,000 people are a member of that website and one thing that I HATE is film piracy. I'm just thankful for the link.

[Turnip]

nice sum of money.
wouldnt mind that coming in through adverts :P
good luck with making more :)

[Tim.]

mmmmmm.

Edited by brandon (Forum Moderator): Please do not post pointlessly

[Agnostic Bear]

It doesn't bother me who here cares. 30,000 people are a member of that website and one thing that I HATE is film piracy. I'm just thankful for the link.

It's a shame that you pirate stuff yourself isn't it.

Please note that was rhetorical.

[Misawa]

It's a shame that I don't, isn't it.

[Robbie]

I just reported MovieShares to FACT for copyright infringement.

They don't host any of the files/films on their server so nothing can be done. They just host links and embedded videos.

[Hypertext]

Lol - owned Misawa. *Removed*

Edited by --ss-- (Forum Super Moderator): Please do not insult other forum members.

[--ss--]

They don't host any of the files/films on their server so nothing can be done. They just host links and embedded videos.
It just describes tv-links in a nutshell , and what happened to that?

[Decode]

I just reported MovieShares to FACT for copyright infringement.
I just -reped you for thinking that something will be done about that and been sad enough to report it, they host nothing on there server :rolleyes:

[crans]

I just reported MovieShares to FACT for copyright infringement.
You with hundred others have tried.

Also nope it's not on MovieShares it's on a new site I made yesterday.

It's getting nice traffic it's being featured of some top sites.

[Joshuae]

You with hundred others have tried.

Also nope it's not on MovieShares it's on a new site I made yesterday.

It's getting nice traffic it's being featured of some top sites.

*Removed*

Edited by Professor-Alex (Forum Super Moderator): Please don't be rude.

[crans]

*Removed*
Not really lol.. How?

[Joshuae]

Not really lol.. How?

You caused Downloadbag to crash just for Ms.
You perm banned a few people from Db, because refusal to join Ms.

[crans]

You caused Downloadbag to crash just for Ms.
You perm banned a few people from Db, because refusal to join Ms.
You what? :s

I haven't been Admin on there since Danny sold it so have I "banned" people? this is so off-topic..

[mat64]

It just describes tv-links in a nutshell , and what happened to that?
Nothing really - http://tv-links.cc

[crans]

Nothing really - http://tv-links.cc
Mat, that isn't the orginial someone make a wanna be clone and users thought it was tv-links.co.uk and went to it.

[Misawa]

It doesn't need to host them. It can be removed for the fact that it promotes copyright infringement. I have reported a whole load of websites to FACT, and in many case I have received feedback saying that the cases have been dealt with, and these websites have subsequently gone down.

Sad? I'm sorry, but I'm a film-maker and I love the film industry and piracy and copyright infringment are damaging it. If you were a film-maker, how would you feel if something you put so much work into was being watched by penniless nerds for free?

[Decode]

Nothing really - http://tv-links.cc
It used to be tv-links.co.uk untill someone stole the domain.

It doesn't need to host them. It can be removed for the fact that it promotes copyright infringement. I have reported a whole load of websites to FACT, and in many case I have received feedback saying that the cases have been dealt with, and these websites have subsequently gone down.

Sad? I'm sorry, but I'm a film-maker and I love the film industry and piracy and copyright infringment are damaging it. If you were a film-maker, how would you feel if something you put so much work into was being watched by penniless nerds for free?
I think you will find that its sad because you have nothing better to do with your time than report websites that are suposidly copyright infringing.

[Misawa]

Supposedly? Aha - no - it is fact. Sad? I'm not going to sit idly by watching a cancer expand in the film industry. Get some intelligence, you have absolutely no defense. Also, do not try and play the "life" card and try and squawk your way into some kind of competition. Do I use all the hours in a day tracking down websites that infringe copyright? No. Assumptions will get you no where, and trying to compare one lifestyle with another is about as shortsighted and brasin as anything. Get a grip.

[Decode]

Supposedly? Aha - no - it is fact. Sad? I'm not going to sit idly by watching a cancer expand in the film industry. Get some intelligence, you have absolutely no defense.
As crans said, its been tried before and no one has shut it down. And even if you did shut it down there are still plenty more sites. And yes, its sad that you are spending your time trying to get a site suspended.

[Invent]

Sad? I'm sorry, but I'm a film-maker and I love the film industry and piracy and copyright infringment are damaging it. If you were a film-maker, how would you feel if something you put so much work into was being watched by penniless nerds for free?

Welcome to the internet my friend.

Even if FACT do take action, they won't keep chasing the site if it comes back as it's no where near popular enough for them to need to take serious action.

[Misawa]

I can afford to loose 20 seconds out of my day to report something. 20 seconds out of 24 hours is hardly a sizeable portion of my day, is it? I find it funny that you attempt to make a defense. It is inevitable that the website will be shut down.

[blanky12!]

Supposedly? Aha - no - it is fact. Sad? I'm not going to sit idly by watching a cancer expand in the film industry. Get some intelligence, you have absolutely no defense. Also, do not try and play the "life" card and try and squawk your way into some kind of competition. Do I use all the hours in a day tracking down websites that infringe copyright? No. Assumptions will get you no where, and trying to compare one lifestyle with another is about as shortsighted and brasin as anything. Get a grip.
You sir, are a complete waste man.

just leave it out...

[Invent]

It is inevitable that the website will be shut down.No it's not.

I myself have been contacted by organisations trying to get my websites taken down (several times infact) and every time my site has survived and stayed online. It all depends on the location of the server and the method/type of copyright infringement.

[Misawa]

And people said the same about "TV Links". Joshuae and I are the only ones who are correct in this entire thread, that's appalling. People have absolutely no idea - quite shocking, how they will survive in the real world.

[Lycan]

No it's not.

I myself have been contacted by organisations trying to get my websites taken down, every time my site has survived and stayed online. It depends on the location of the server and the method/type of copyright infringement.


Actually it is... Normally by the owner after many years of happy times in exchange for a new venture =)

[Invent]

And people said the same about "TV Links".

Do you have any idea how big/popular TV Links was? Movieshare is no-where near that size.

[Misawa]

It really does not bother me. I am no where near nerdy-savvy enough to know the ins and outs of piracy and copyright-infringing websites. People obviously enjoy hurting the film industry.

[Excellent]

Aww bless misawa is holding his own picket line. On your bike sir! Moveshares doesn't look like it hosts the videos they just link them, notice that host is the keyword there. I wish you all the best with your little report to some superior rut monkeys in the "industry" but I can't see nothing happening, as crans said before, people have tried to have him shut down before.. what makes you think you will succeed?

[Decode]

Do you have any idea how big/popular TV Links was? Movieshare is no-where near that size.
Everyone used to know about tv-links. Its a shame the domain got changed, now not as many people know about it. :(

[Misawa]

Host isn't the key word. If it infringes, FACT want to know about it. It was even FACT who SHUT DOWN "TV Links" for LINKING. It didn't change domain, it was forcefully removed and arrests were made.

[Excellent]

Host isn't the key word. If it infringes, FACT want to know about it. It was even FACT who SHUT DOWN "TV Links" for LINKING. It didn't change domain, it was forcefully removed and arrests were made.Get out your calculator and type in the ammount of hits Movieshares have had then times that figure by about 30. As Invent was saying, their base isn't big enough for a company to try shutdown.. If they did follow through with this report then obviously they have alot of free time on their hands.

[mat64]

Mat, that isn't the orginial someone make a wanna be clone and users thought it was tv-links.co.uk and went to it.Yeh I'm aware of that ;), the point is that these sort of sites just bounce back pretty easily, the site that's been brought up in it's place its much better in my opinion anyway.

[Misawa]

Yet another use of that clumsy defense cliche, "spare time on their hands". If it infringes copyright, FACT want to know about it. 30,000 users is more than enough for FACT to follow up on - it is the organisation's job to remove all elements of piracy. I have reported less frequented websites that "MovieShare" and they have been removed. There is no point in anyone trying to build a case, because I will rubbish it with fact. Pun intended.

[Excellent]

Yet another use of that clumsy defense cliche, "spare time on their hands". If it infringes copyright, FACT want to know about it. 30,000 users is more than enough for FACT to follow up on - it is the organisation's job to remove all elements of piracy. I have reported less frequented websites that "MovieShare" and they have been removed. There is no point in anyone trying to build a case, because I will rubbish it with fact. Pun intended.Look you narrow minded little boy, grow up and stop trying to ruin a good website. I'd rather not pay to watch videos which only last nearlly 2 hours. I doubt this website will be shut down so give up and move on, build a bridge and climb over it.

Edited by brandon (Forum Moderator): Please do not be rude

[Misawa]

Narrow-minded? That is actually quite hilarious. You are the one who is narrow-minded. So much so, that you bring up the length of a feature film. That is quite pathetic. You make yourself look like a fool. Get off your chair and do something worthwhile.

Edited by brandon (Forum Moderator): Please do not be rude

[Excellent]

Narrow-minded? That is actually quite hilarious. You are the one who is narrow-minded. So much so, that you bring up the length of a feature film. That is quite pathetic. You make yourself look like a fool. Get off your chair and do something worthwhile.A feature film? No, these films are not worth paying for. The actors and producers get paid far too much, how much do the writers get paid? Next to nothing. I guess your in the industry, coffee boy? I am doing something worthwhile with my life but proves to me by reporting a website for such a stupid reason that you should be asking yourself that very same question:rolleyes:

[Decode]

Narrow-minded? That is actually quite hilarious. You are the one who is narrow-minded. So much so, that you bring up the length of a feature film. That is quite pathetic. You make yourself look like a fool. Get off your chair and do something worthwhile.
No Excellent is right, you are the narrow minded one.

FACT wont shutdown Movieshare, if you want to try then you can, end of.

[Misawa]

Another narrow-minded statement, I see. Producers and directors are paid all kinds of amounts, as are writers. Writers are paid more than both in various instances; generalising is completely idiotic.

Coffee boy? No. I self-produce, write and direct short and feature films. Do not try and get into an argument with me over the film industry, as you will surely lose. A feature-length screenplay that I just co-wrote is being produced in America and already has producers and a tentative cast attached. So, again, I rubbish your "coffee boy" assumption. The closest I have ever been to that is being a runner on Hot Fuzz.

[Excellent]

Another narrow-minded statement, I see. Producers and directors are paid all kinds of amounts, as are writers. Writers are paid more than both in various instances; generalising is completely idiotic.

Coffee boy? No. I self-produce, write and direct short and feature films. Do not try and get into an argument with me over the film industry, as you will surely lose. A feature-length screenplay that I just co-wrote is being produced in America and already has producers and a tentative cast attached. So, again, I rubbish your "coffee boy" assumption. The closest I have ever been to that is being a runner on Hot Fuzz.So your on a kids forum when you apparently "self-produce"? Bless your little soul darling. So this is why writers went on strike for more pay is it? Ahh I guess they felt like they needed a couple more million to "over cast" on producers and directors:rolleyes: What this thread comes down to is the fact you have gone out of your way to report a website that is only linking copyrighted material, if he was hosting these films then I'd start to ponder about the websites future. Look at the sites that host them and report them as they are supplying him with the films my dear boy.

A runner in hot-fuzz? Ohhh how delightful! Is that your lives achievement then sir?

[Xarea]

A runner in Hot Fuzz? Wow, that's totally changed my opinion of this... :rolleyes:

[Misawa]

Actually this forum is pretty universal, thanks.

As I said, I have reported websites that link in the past and they have been dealt with, even with lower popularity than "MovieShares".

No, it by far is not the achievement of my life, it was the response to your "coffee boy" assumption.

[Excellent]

Actually this forum is pretty universal, thanks.

As I said, I have reported websites that link in the past and they have been dealt with, even with lower popularity than "MovieShares".

No, it by far is not the achievement of my life, it was the response to your "coffee boy" assumption.Well saying you've been a runner in hot fuzz is basically being an extra that gets used and abused with no payment, I'd also say thats equal to a coffee boy. What a pathetic and immoral come back that was. The level of reduce I had for you has just plummeted.

[Xarea]

As I said, I have reported websites that link in the past and they have been dealt with, even with lower popularity than "MovieShares".

Have you ever thought about the people who struggle through on benefits, just managing to afford an internet connection? People who can't afford to go to the movies, people who can't afford to have any real experience of movies?

SURE - movie privacy is a crime, but how does it harm anyone if it's online? Let's use Hot Fuzz as an example, i'm sure you'll be able to relate :). Universal Pictures made $78,761,971 from the film. I'm sorry, but that's a staggering amount of money.

Just because YOU can afford to go see a film now and then, doesn't mean everyone else can. Not everyone is made of money. Please, don't reply back with a lame attempt to "own" me in someway, I wish not to waste anymore of my time on you. Grow the hell up and come to terms with life.

[crans]

Host isn't the key word. If it infringes, FACT want to know about it. It was even FACT who SHUT DOWN "TV Links" for LINKING. It didn't change domain, it was forcefully removed and arrests were made.
FACT has emailed me over 5 times.. and they get the same reply "me no speak english"


Federation Against Copyright Theft

Europa House

Church Street

Old Isleworth

Middlesex

TW7 6DA

United Kingdom

Tel: 0208 568 6646

Fax: 0208 560 6364

Email: [email protected]



Date: 23rd April 2008



Via: Email



Reference No: 08/1140



CEASE & DESIST NOTIFICATION

RE: UNAUTHORISED DISTRIBUTION OF MOTION PICTURES SUBJECT TO COPYRIGHT



INVOLVING: www.movieshares.co.uk



E-Mail (ISP): [email protected]

E-Mail (Site owner): [email protected]



To the domain registrants and administrators of the website detailed above. This is a “Cease and Desist” notification from the Federation Against Copyright Theft (FACT). The Federation Against Copyright Theft is an industry body that is funded by the major film studios, to investigate the sale or distribution of copyright infringing material, which causes detrimental and large-scale financial loss to the film industry.



Our membership comprises of the following companies:



20th Century Fox, Applied Optical Technologies, Ascent Media Group Ltd, British Broadcasting Corporation (BBC), British Sky Broadcasting, Blockbuster, Buena Vista, Columbia Tristar, Carlton International, Cinema Exhibitors *** (CEA), Cinram Deluxe Video Services, DHL, Entertainment in Video, Independent Television–Facilities Centre (ITFC), FAPL (Football Association Premier League), Macrovision, Momentum Pictures, Motion Picture Licensing Company (International) Ltd, News Data Services, Paramount, Pathé Film Distribution, Prism Leisure Corp. Plc, Technicolor, The Entertainment Network, Television Videograme Film Int’l (TVFI), United Artists Corp, United International Pictures, Universal Pictures, Universal Video, V.H.S. Distribution, Video Collection Int’l (VCI), Warner Brothers.



FACT is authorised to act on behalf of its members, and in this respect, to protect the rights in the filmworks that are owned or controlled by its membership. Part of our work involves the monitoring of the Internet and taking civil and criminal action against persons or entities that facilitate the sale or distribution of products that infringe our members’ products online. We have identified that the website detailed above is facilitation the distribution of FACT member products. Without limitation, the copyright which exists in examples of the Filmworks featured upon the Website are owned by or licensed to our members, details of which are as follows:



URL: www.movieshares.co.uk was visited and evidenced electronically on 23rd April 2008. I would draw your attention to the following representative samples:



1. Over Her Dead Body Entertainment Films

URL: http://www.movieshares.co.uk/new-2008/9432-over-her-dead-body-2008-a.html

2. Jumper 20th Century Fox

URL: http://www.movieshares.co.uk/new-2008/7923-jumper-2008-a.html

3. 10,000 BC Warner Brothers

URL: http://www.movieshares.co.uk/new-2008/7418-10-000-b-c-2008-a.html



Note that the above title(s) are only representative samples of copyright infringing material. There are other titles on the website that infringe our member’s ownership rights.



The person(s) and entities responsible for this website and its contents are infringing our member's copyright.



The unauthorised making available or facilitating of copyright films to the public via this Internet protocol constitutes copyright infringement under Section 20 of the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988. It also constitutes a criminal offence under Section 107(2A) of the Act. Furthermore, the authorisation or inducement of the making of unlicensed copies by persons to whom the films are communicated is also an infringement under Section 16(2) and 17 of the Act. Note that the website registrant is subject to these acts.



Please note that we reserve the right to seek on behalf of our member companies any remedy to which they may be entitled under Section 96, 97 or 97A of the Copyright, Designs and Patents 1988 Act, where such Acts apply.



The above information should provide you with sufficient details of said infringements. However, please do not hesitate to contact us with any questions you may have regarding this matter quoting the above mentioned reference number in the subject line of all email correspondence.



It is requested the infringing website, www.movieshares.co.uk be removed from public viewing.



Please contact us at the above listed address or by replying to this e-mail should you have any questions, quoting the above reference number in the subject line of all e-mail correspondence.



Your prompt response is requested.



Your assistance in resolving this matter is greatly appreciated.





Yours Sincerely

Jim Angell

Director of Operations

Federation Against Copyright Theft

T: +44 (0) 208 568 6646

F: +44 (0) 208 560 6364

E: [email protected]

W: www.fact-uk.org.uk

[Misawa]

Do you know what a runner is? Obviously not, since you assume a runner is an extra. A runner is someone behind the scenes, and yes, they are paid. Extras are not always free, anyway.

There are not even any "coffee boys", people make their own damn coffee in catering.

I volunteered to be a runner to Edgar Wright personally, for free. And the example was used to tell you the closest thing to someone who makes coffee that I have ever done, and that is the only instance.

[Xarea]

There are not even any "coffee boys", people make their own damn coffee in catering.

I have mine black, ta.

[Excellent]

Have you ever thought about the people who struggle through on benefits, just managing to afford an internet connection? People who can't afford to go to the movies, people who can't afford to have any real experience of movies?

SURE - movie privacy is a crime, but how does it harm anyone if it's online? Let's use Hot Fuzz as an example, i'm sure you'll be able to relate :). Universal Pictures made $78,761,971 from the film. I'm sorry, but that's a staggering amount of money.

Just because YOU can afford to go see a film now and then, doesn't mean everyone else can. Not everyone is made of money. Please, don't reply back with a lame attempt to "own" me in someway, I wish not to waste anymore of my time on you. Grow the hell up and come to terms with life.Well said, +Repute.


Do you know what a runner is? Obviously not, since you assume a runner is an extra. A runner is someone behind the scenes, and yes, they are paid. Extras are not always free, anyway.

There are not even any "coffee boys", people make their own damn coffee in catering.

I volunteered to be a runner to Edgar Wright personally, for free. And the example was used to tell you the closest thing to someone who makes coffee that I have ever done, and that is the only instance.Look my dear habbox forum fellow. You are in the wrong, crans does a good deed by providing free movies to people WHEN they have been released and some obnoxious little rich boy comes along and tries to ruin his website. Why don't you go work on the set of tellytubbies, I'm sure they would like someone with as much selfishness as you.

[Misawa]

Have you ever thought about the people who struggle through on benefits, just managing to afford an internet connection? People who can't afford to go to the movies, people who can't afford to have any real experience of movies?

SURE - movie privacy is a crime, but how does it harm anyone if it's online? Let's use Hot Fuzz as an example, i'm sure you'll be able to relate :). Universal Pictures made $78,761,971 from the film. I'm sorry, but that's a staggering amount of money.

Just because YOU can afford to go see a film now and then, doesn't mean everyone else can. Not everyone is made of money. Please, don't reply back with a lame attempt to "own" me in someway, I wish not to waste anymore of my time on you. Grow the hell up and come to terms with life.

Grow up? Film isn't free, people who cannot afford it should have no involvement. It's a business. Live with it.

[Xarea]

Grow up? Film isn't free, people who cannot afford it should have no involvement. It's a business. Live with it.

"Food isn't free, people who cannot afford it should have no involvement."

Exactly the same basis. So your saying that people who cannot afford food should all be let to die? :rolleyes:

[Excellent]

"Food isn't free, people who cannot afford it should have no involvement."

Exactly the same basis. So your saying that people who cannot afford food should all be let to die? :rolleyes:Basically, yes. Don't listen to him, he makes his money and doesn't care about anyone but himself, movie people these days jeez:rolleyes:

[Misawa]

Ahahaha, that's a terrible response. Going to an extreme is completely rediculous.

[Xarea]

Basically, yes. Don't listen to him, he makes his money and doesn't care about anyone but himself, movie people these days jeez:rolleyes:

I know many people in the movie business who are absoloutle diamonds, but some people are just plain morons.


Going to an extreme is completely rediculous.

Says the one who spends their time reporting a webpage of links...