Am I in the wrong?

[Excellent2]

Okay hi guys. I've done some work for Tim. on HxF. I took a deposit at the start and made clear this was for my labour, I don't take full payments until work is finished. I have done most of the work but there is some that I just don't have time to do. I have told Tim in recent weeks that I have work and college + christmas to deal with, he cannot accept this.

Granted I haven't finished the work but the £5 deposit was made clear it was for my labour purposes only. Tim is now refusing to take my work and say he can do bits of it from a tutorial. This is not my problem that Tim will not accept my work.

So am I right or wrong to keep the deposit even though I stated it was for labour purposes.

Thanks :)


Thread closed by ,Jess, (Forum Super Moderator): Due to arguments.

[Tim.]

Im the person who purchased this. I will infact state that he says nearly completed i dont class this as nearly completed:

http://www.igoboy.com/derek/register.php
http://www.igoboy.com/derek/login.php

These are the original specs i sent him ( I think you'll find its nothing like it!)

Profiles - Can set private or public so only friends see, Displays avatar information about them photos and albums displayed, users can set articles and reviews as their favourites which will be displayed, Different Skins, displays Friends, also displays Blog entries, and Comments - Set out basically live nivade.com with the extra features
*Blogs - Add/Remove/Edit With a possibly of photos being able to be added, i need your thoughts on this.
*Photos and albums - Users can upload photos organise them etc, aswell as set their favourite albums which will appear on their profiles
*Classified adverts users can post in two categories, Buy/Sell or Band Members They select the Location, Add a Title and Its displayed a bit like ebay, photos can be added, One photo for normal users up to 5 for VIPS
*VIP - I sent you a file with most of the vip stuff in
*Articles + Reviews Submit - Users can create articles and reviews and submit them with up to 5 photos in, then we either approve them and add them manually or disaprove and delete them. When we approve them there is a counter for each user so we know who has done how many. In their profiles i'd like us to be able to add submitted articles/reviews with the title as a link to them
*Bands - Users can post their band names etc with Normal users able to submit 3 Photos, VIPS able to submit unlimited - able to edit, add any gigs, or past gigs, add sound files, normal users can add up to 5 vips unlimited. Users can rate the bands, then on the homepage it displays the latest updated band pages with one of the images, it also displays the HOT bands, and has a browse bands and search for band features
*Events/Gigs, users post events gigs with contact information and photos, Normal 3 Photos vips able to submit unlimited.
*VIP Extra feature - Normal Users can upload up to 20 photos, VIPS unlimited
*There will obviously be the user centre when they log in just make this like nivade. Users can have a reasonable avatar size and file size, vips can have bigger etc
*There will be homepages for BLOGS and Photos, They will display the latest added and the most viewed aswell as the add/remove/view my blogs etc etc

VIP Features -

Skin Changer
Ability To Post Classified Ads (With Colours, Boldness Etc + Small Image)
Exclusive VIP Competitions
@disciplesofrhythm.com email with 5 GB Space
Exclusive VIP Chat area
Exclusive Interviews and Reviews Before Everyone else
Exclusive chat with famous people away from public chat
Upload bigger video and image sizes (And quicker possibly)

Try it for yourself. The profiles and blogs are a joke, the admin control bit is also a joke considering users can access it. I CANT use this as it is. It wasnt 'CLEARLY' state it was for labour, and Jak the person im developing a website with infact was asked on atleast one occcasion for more money,

[Pazza]

So long as you made it clear, as far as I am aware your fine.

Although i think it would be better for you to finish it after christmas

EDIT: After seeing tim.'s post, I think he should get a full refund TBH, if not a Partial one as if he paid £5 for effort it looks like not much has gone into it

[Excellent2]

So long as you made it clear, as far as I am aware your fine.

Although i think it would be better for you to finish it after christmasI said I could continue but Tim is set on setting deadlines. I am busy this year, I cannot work to deadlines. As I'm on a mac and using a rubbish messenger it doesn't give me the option to save chatlogs so I can't exactly prove anything, but neither can Tim.

[Excellent2]

And also to Tim's post above. You kept on adding features daily to the file. I in no way did agree to additional features, all I said I could do was try.


Edited by ,Jess, (Forum Super Moderator): Please do not double post.

[Tim.]

Actualy i kept running through the features, I moved the deadline from the 15th of Dec to the 25TH WHICH YOU AGREED ON. even with the extra features after that point i added no more. i know im not allowed to post chat logs but heres on, Jak the person who keeps records!

19:49) elJAY loves LOUI: ace
(19:49) Tim aka Derek: our launch has been moved to January 31st Because it sounds better, so I am hoping you'll have completed by December 25th, Am i being un reasonable there?
(19:49) elJAY loves LOUI: no no, thats fine.

And at this point i had given all the extras to him. And not added anything else

[Excellent2]

Actualy i kept running through the features, I moved the deadline from the 15th of Dec to the 25TH WHICH YOU AGREED ON. even with the extra features after that point i added no more.I agreed to the dealine, I never said that I didn't agree to it. It's christmas and I'm very busy, I couldn't complete.

[Source]

its only a bloody user system. Give him the money back, Im sure its worth it just to get this "child" off of your back.

[Tomm]

Pay him for what he did and hire someone else to finish it off.

Even if he did not complete it all you still owe him money for what he did do.

[Excellent2]

Pay him for what he did and hire someone else to finish it off.

Even if he did not complete it all you still owe him money for what he did do.Honestly my work wasn't up to scratch so I'm just looking to keep the deposit.

[Tim.]

If you work wasnt up to scratch then refund?

[Tim.]

Pay him for what he did and hire someone else to finish it off.

Even if he did not complete it all you still owe him money for what he did do.


Also thats the problem - He didnt do anything worth me paying for, The user system I cant use it. And the coder i've managed to scrabble around is unable to continue using the files, and to be perfectly honets theres not much point it'll take him about 10 mins to get it up to that standard.

Edited by MattGarner (Forum Super Moderator): Please do not multiple post when you can edit your post above.

[RelientCraig]

In my oppinion, not being on Habbox forum very long but,
Exellent2 if you didn't finish your work you should have to refund the person you didn't finish your work too. It's like a job in real life, if you work as a painter or interial decorator you don't get fully paid untill the Job is finished.
And yeah fair point it's Christmas time and you don't have enough time you could have atleast ASKED for more time, and another thing about the set time going back to real jobs, if you was payed 15 pound deposite for a painting job and said i'll be back next year to do the rest you wouldn't be best happy and want your money back!

[Excellent2]

Also thats the problem - He didnt do anything worth me paying for, The user system I cant use it. And the coder i've managed to scrabble around is unable to continue using the files, and to be perfectly honets theres not much point it'll take him about 10 mins to get it up to that standard.You can use it. You don't have any of the files as of yet so what are you going on about another coder can't use the files?

[Tim.]

The other coder has infact seen the example i have shown everyone, he has a premade user system which he can use as a shell. You also mentioned you did not agree to deadlines for the new features, you originally agreed to December the 15th for the original features as i quoted, Practically all of them have not been completed by this date, which i do believe you told me that 75% of this would be completed by then, and in this case i said i would be happy to pay you part of it then and there, but you showed me a preview and nothing had really happened.

[Excellent2]

The other coder has infact seen the example i have shown everyone, he has a premade user system which he can use as a shell. You also mentioned you did not agree to deadlines for the new features, you originally agreed to December the 15th for the original features as i quoted, Practically all of them have not been completed by this date, which i do believe you told me that 75% of this would be completed by then, and in this case i said i would be happy to pay you part of it then and there, but you showed me a preview and nothing had really happened.For the additional features I said I could try so don't start that one. I'm very sorry that I have work outside of the internet world to do. When you get to my age you will start needing to work and go to college.

As I have stated, if people say that I am in the wrong I'll happily refund you. If not I'll keep the initial deposit which I should be doing already but this is just a gesture of good will.

[MrPinkPanther]

You're in the wrong I think, you said it would be completed and it wasn't. I hate it when people come up with excuses like I've had too much work from College and Christmas, you knew Christmas was coming so why did you take it on? You have no time to code yet you have time to come on Habbox Forum daily and post?

[Test:Tube:Baby]

I agree with Tim ^^

[Excellent2]

You're in the wrong I think, you said it would be completed and it wasn't. I hate it when people come up with excuses like I've had too much work from College and Christmas, you knew Christmas was coming so why did you take it on? You have no time to code yet you have time to come on Habbox Forum daily and post?Tim also knew christmas was coming as I told him many times. It's not my problem if he doesn't listen is it? I've refunded him now due to a few people saying I was wrong. It wasn't an excuse, it's a time of year. I'm on here daily but I'm not posting constantly.

[Tim.]

Look im enjoying this as much as you are. You make out that im some kind of scrouge but i have to pay for christmas presents myself. I've spent the last year saving for this user system, and now i've finally managed to get the funds to do this - I want to make sure it can still happen.

[Excellent2]

Look im enjoying this as much as you are. You make out that im some kind of scrouge but i have to pay for christmas presents myself. I've spent the last year saving for this user system, and now i've finally managed to get the funds to do this - I want to make sure it can still happen.I'm not enjoying anything? I didn't make out you was scrooge.. I simply said my piece, thats all. You told me your friend is paying for it so whats that all about?

[Source]

Your crying about £5? Guys, people would care if it wasn't the price of a starbucks coffee. Sort it out.

[Tim.]

Jak is paying for it? But why should i be left out of the deposit, when i had to pay for it to get things moving and jak wasnt online

[Excellent2]

Your crying about £5? Guys, people would care if it wasn't the price of a starbucks coffee. Sort it out.I'm not crying about anything. He's been refunded. In all rights I should have kept it for my labour but ahh well.. never deal with kids as you rightly said matt :P

[Tim.]

Ok lets just stop. its sorted. all your trying to do is seem to be an 'adult' and you've certainly prooved your not. Cause i dont care about this anymore.

[Excellent2]

Ok lets just stop. its sorted. all your trying to do is seem to be an 'adult' and you've certainly prooved your not. Cause i dont care about this anymore.My age technically states I'm a young adult.

[Jackboy]

You are both sad.

You charged £5 for PHP coding? That is really sad. You are undercutting all the good coders with your procedural etc.

I have quoted £40 minimum for any user systems I do...

However, Tim you are sad for wanting £5 back when Excellent2 has actually spent time on the work (YOU PAID FOR THE), whether he completed it or not, you paid £5 for the labour, which he provided.

[Awfy]

You keep the deposit no matter what, one of the main reason of taking a deposit is to support your time and expenditures during the planning and arrangement time. If someone is to use your time and effort (no matter how small) then agreed deposit is now ethically the developers.

It is up to the developer to give them a refund but in my eyes not necessary. Unless there was an agreement at the start of the project which clearly stated that the deposit is refundable then sure Luke is in the wrong, otherwise not.

[Excellent2]

You are both sad.

You charged £5 for PHP coding? That is really sad. You are undercutting all the good coders with your procedural etc.

I have quoted £40 minimum for any user systems I do...

However, Tim you are sad for wanting £5 back when Excellent2 has actually spent time on the work (YOU PAID FOR THE), whether he completed it or not, you paid £5 for the labour, which he provided.I'm not undercutting anybody. He had the choice whether to go to another coder. Thanks for the support though.


You keep the deposit no matter what, one of the main reason of taking a deposit is to support your time and expenditures during the planning and arrangement time. If someone is to use your time and effort (no matter how small) then agreed deposit is now ethically the developers.

It is up to the developer to give them a refund but in my eyes not necessary. Unless there was an agreement at the start of the project which clearly stated that the deposit is refundable then sure Luke is in the wrong, otherwise not.Ahh I got the whole "I'll wreck your reputation on HxF" lark. Even though my rep isn't that big I certainly wouldn't want to spoil potential work because of a person who doesn't understand what labour costs mean (Tim). Thanks Greg.

[Tim.]

Well to be perfectly honest i didnt say ill 'wreck your reputation' I actualy said well ill just ask the people on habbox, and then 2 minutes later you decided to post it.

Also i understand labour costs to be when someone produces something which you can actualy use without having to pay others to sort it out so its actualy functional?

Look as i said earlier i know long care for this, you can argue, say crap about me, at the end of the day you can tarnish my reputation on here, but to be quite honest i'm not going to hang around on habbox all my life - So go ahead its only £5 but some of us arent loaded and dont have all the cash in the world.

[Jackboy]

Well to be perfectly honest i didnt say ill 'wreck your reputation' I actualy said well ill just ask the people on habbox, and then 2 minutes later you decided to post it.

Also i understand labour costs to be when someone produces something which you can actualy use without having to pay others to sort it out so its actualy functional?

Look as i said earlier i know long care for this, you can argue, say crap about me, at the end of the day you can tarnish my reputation on here, but to be quite honest i'm not going to hang around on habbox all my life - So go ahead its only £5 but some of us arent loaded and dont have all the cash in the world.

You do know you have to do



<input type="text" size="20" name="blah">


or w/e for each line. And he has displayed it. Or are you too niave to understand this?

The point is you paid £5 for a reason (labour). He did £5 worth of labour easily. Web developers get paid WAY more than that in the real world.

He took it as a small deposit for a small ammount of work and so you would prove you're trustworthy I suppose. He would take the rest of the cash (for the rest of the labour + completion of script) after he had finished script.

But you wanted the deposit back. He was so wrong to give it to you. Even though it's 5 pounds, it's just the scenario.

Tim you have an extreme lack of understanding.

[Excellent2]

Well to be perfectly honest i didnt say ill 'wreck your reputation' I actualy said well ill just ask the people on habbox, and then 2 minutes later you decided to post it.

Also i understand labour costs to be when someone produces something which you can actualy use without having to pay others to sort it out so its actualy functional?

Look as i said earlier i know long care for this, you can argue, say crap about me, at the end of the day you can tarnish my reputation on here, but to be quite honest i'm not going to hang around on habbox all my life - So go ahead its only £5 but some of us arent loaded and dont have all the cash in the world.You said "You've got a good rep on HxF, we'll see what they have to say won't we :)". I said go ahead. I posted it because I wanted to know if I was in the wrong but clearly I wasn't.

What are you on about functional? It all works with some quick PHP edits dude.

What reputation? £5 isn't much to me so I gave it back as you was crying in the conversation. It would have simply bought me a new domain that I wouldn't use or something.

[Tim.]

Your a web developer you can charge what you like, I wasnt just paying £5, and that in my eyes wasnt worth it, sorry if you think otherwise.

and the part where you said ' I was crying ' GOD Thats aload of crap. You said We'll wait and see what the hxf users say, and you refunded because several told you to. I Said thank you. but you couldnt drop it because one member sticks up for you. Can you just drop this case, your calling me immature, yet have you seen yourselves i've said atleast twice now forget it i dont care, and you still keep going on and on trying to cause an argument, just shut up? I get the point. I dont give a crap anymore.

[.:.:jjm261:.:.]

Tim, i think that you asked me to do this but i couldn't do as much as that

Those are exactly the same specs you sent me?

I think you should get a full refund for lack of effort tbh

[Excellent2]

Your a web developer you can charge what you like, I wasnt just paying £5, and that in my eyes wasnt worth it, sorry if you think otherwise.

and the part where you said ' I was crying ' GOD Thats aload of crap. You said We'll wait and see what the hxf users say, and you refunded because several told you to. I Said thank you. but you couldnt drop it because one member sticks up for you. Can you just drop this case, your calling me immature, yet have you seen yourselves i've said atleast twice now forget it i dont care, and you still keep going on and on trying to cause an argument, just shut up? I get the point. I dont give a crap anymore.The £5 was for deposit, for my labour. By all rights I could have asked for half the payment upfront with no questions asked.

Yes you was theoretically crying in that msn conversation. Caps lock was on an awful lot. Yes I did, I said we'd wait to see if I was wrong or right.. Turns out I was right. I dropped it and you messaged me again, I don't know where you got me coming back from? I'll stop when you quit replying to my thread thankyou.


Tim, i think that you asked me to do this but i couldn't do as much as that

Those are exactly the same specs you sent me?

I think you should get a full refund for lack of effort tbhI'm really sorry but do you work or have college? Do you know what it's like?

[Tim.]

Excellent Drop it. Ok you've prooved your point. thanks alot for the support jjm.

[Protege]

lol ur fighting over £5

I got to take excellents side, college is a headache (esp if your doing an IT course and are infront of a computer all day, does demotivate you)

[RYANNNNN]

Ladies...

If you take on a job, complete it. If you know you can't complete, don't take the job. If you said "Oh, Christmas is also coming up so I might be delayed", don't take the job. It's your responsibility as the coder to produce the work to the highest standard and on time. If you can't manage your time properly then don't take the job.

[MrPinkPanther]

I do college myself doing 6 AS Levels including IT and Computing yet I have time to do Flash work in the evening and post on Habbox. The fact is you knew you wouldn't have time and you should have said "It might not be completed until after xmas" in the first place. Otherwise you should have given him a refund right away.

[Jahova]

I'm not crying about anything. He's been refunded. In all rights I should have kept it for my labour but ahh well.. never deal with kids as you rightly said matt :P
Labour? I could have downloaded files just like that from some random tutorial site that offer downloadable versions of their tutorials. I could probably come up with somthing similar with no effort atall.

Oh: And if you can't reach the deadline then money should be paid back if the percentage done is less than the client is happy with.

Regards,

[DeejayMachoo$]

Give him a refund its only a fiver, Its not gona break the bank, what you did is less than 10 minuites work. IMO you shouldn't take on work that you cannot complete by the deadline.

[Excellent2]

Give him a refund its only a fiver, Its not gona break the bank, what you did is less than 10 minuites work. IMO you shouldn't take on work that you cannot complete by the deadline.I did less than 10 minutes work? I have copious uncomplete files still left to finish. I gave him a refund even though I shouldn't have as it was for my labour. It's only a fiver so perhaps this thread should die now.

[Agnostic Bear]

I did less than 10 minutes work? I have copious uncomplete files still left to finish. I gave him a refund even though I shouldn't have as it was for my labour. It's only a fiver so perhaps this thread should die now.

It depends, do you like FreeBSD?

[Jackboy]

Labour? I could have downloaded files just like that from some random tutorial site that offer downloadable versions of their tutorials. I could probably come up with somthing similar with no effort atall.

Oh: And if you can't reach the deadline then money should be paid back if the percentage done is less than the client is happy with.

Regards,

LOL. And what is the motion to download files called? Is it not called labour / work / effort w/e.

I mean sitting at a PC is extremely hard.

Anyway Tom, what you chatting about, you can't do html.

Hehe jks :) Merry christmas

[Tim.]

Jackboy not content with everyone pretty much saying to give me the deposit has tried to yet further muck up a thread of mine which is really nothing to do with coding, and only a design. Lol at you stirring when pretty much everyone here has said to refund.. sad sad person. Oh yes and even excellent has said that this thread should be dropped. Demonstrates your immaturity.

[Excellent2]

Labour? I could have downloaded files just like that from some random tutorial site that offer downloadable versions of their tutorials. I could probably come up with somthing similar with no effort atall.

Oh: And if you can't reach the deadline then money should be paid back if the percentage done is less than the client is happy with.

Regards,First of all, get back to your retros. Secondly give me a link to this site where you can download all the features he's asked for? Of course you can just google "Chat system" and get results but this was from scratch. Tim even offered me to work from a tutorial but I said no.. I didn't take the easy way out. Yes, I was wrong to not finish the job but I did tell him many times I am having problems finding the time to get work done. Plus he bugged me every single day with something new that he wants adding.

In total I have spent a good ammount of time working on this for Tim and I made it clear that I was doing the work, he even saw for himself. The problem with Tim is he wants to stick to deadlines and dates. I never for one minute stated that the deposit was for nothing more than my labour, which in all fairness I did devote.

End of the day it's only £5 so I'll leave Tim to sit and simmer.

[Tim.]

First of all, get back to your retrosLook you said are you wrong and hes commenting, your 'really helping' by saying stuff like that, you even said to me 'get back to fansites' like thats going to help you. Its only £5 but to be perfectly honest i could happily spend that on something more worthwhile than what you tried to come up with.

[Excellent2]

Look you said are you wrong and hes commenting, your 'really helping' by saying stuff like that, you even said to me 'get back to fansites' like thats going to help you. Its only £5 but to be perfectly honest i could happily spend that on something more worthwhile than what you tried to come up with.No but when somebody comes in and thinks he knows the definition of 'labour' and tries to say that the time I devoted was useless I'm going to defend myself. Yep, I sure did as thats all you'll be working with from now on Tim. £5 doesn't bother me one bit. Whats bothering me is you say you can do all this from a tutorial when you know absolutely nothing about what goes into coding. I've had to make edits and changes because of you telling me a new idea every single day. I've had to delay frontend work to add additional features to your admin panel. Even after this you still wanted me to design your layout and copy everything that Nivade had. £5 will get you a page with..
<?php
echo "Hello!";
?>from any decent developer. I'm not the best but I did work a hell of a lot doing that system.

[Tim.]

Thats all i'll be working with - You know nothing about me so why even bother - I left fansites atleast a month ago now, and my projects are infact going quite well, appart from one set back in my latest project involving a user system which wasnt completed to schedule.

You keep going on about me working on fansites, yet you know nothing about me, its all you can think of really. Also you dont need much knowledge to build a user system from techtuts, and it'll probably end up a darnsite better than what you produced

[Excellent2]

Thats all i'll be working with - You know nothing about me so why even bother - I left fansites atleast a month ago now, and my projects are infact going quite well, appart from one set back in my latest project involving a user system which wasnt completed to schedule.
What projects? Ihhost, give me a break. I don't know how many people have told me now to not work again with children.. You was the last. A whole month ago? Congratulations and welcome to the big wide world outside of habbo! :eusa_clap


Also you dont need much knowledge to build a user system from techtuts, Sorry but I won't even bother responding to this as I can now declare that you're a failure.

[RYANNNNN]

Sorry but I won't even bother responding to this as I can now declare that you're a failure.

Err, you just did respond. Now look who the failure is.

[Jackboy]

I'm not stirring, just stating my opinion on the matter.

kthnxbai

[Tim.]

What projects? Ihhost, give me a break. I don't know how many people have told me now to not work again with children.. You was the last. A whole month ago? Congratulations and welcome to the big wide world outside of habbo! :eusa_clap

Sorry but I won't even bother responding to this as I can now declare that you're a failure.

Blatant lieing, even if its some sad attempt at getting to me you've failed lols at your desperate attempt to stir trouble, lol how many people have you actualy asked? LOL, and god knows where that insult came from, digging around in desperation I guess.

If that makes me a failure what does it make you, atleast i carry out what my clients have payed me for and will rightfully return money when and if neccesserily, your talking about the world of habbo, yet your hanging around on a habbo forum i think your forgetting, now i'[m not saying theres anything wrong with this but if your having a go at others for actualy playing it.. ON A HABBO FORUM?


& LOL

Err, you just did respond. Now look who the failure is.

[Jackboy]

Blatant lieing, even if its some sad attempt at getting to me you've failed lols at your desperate attempt to stir trouble, lol how many people have you actualy asked? LOL, and god knows where that insult came from, digging around in desperation I guess.

If that makes me a failure what does it make you, atleast i carry out what my clients have payed me for and will rightfully return money when and if neccesserily, your talking about the world of habbo, yet your hanging around on a habbo forum i think your forgetting, now i'[m not saying theres anything wrong with this but if your having a go at others for actualy playing it.. ON A HABBO FORUM?


& LOL

Wow. How do you get clients when you struggle to use correct grammar.

You havn't fought your point about why you should have got a refund.

Now you screwed Excellent2 over, I'm sure it will come back and slap you.

"What goes around comes around"

And your comment on the Habbo Forum is awful. We are in the Web Development section. All of us, at one point, played Habbo. Theres no denying it :P But we have grown up and now we post in the "Web Development" section.

Yes, Habbox Forum may be aimed at habbo users, but I would hazard a guess that the majority of users barely go on habbo.

[Tim.]

Wow. How do you get clients when you struggle to use correct grammar.
I do believe if you took the time to research my site, i do infact say 'We're by no means 100% proffessional' I also do not expect to have to type in 100% correct grammar when on a forum like this.

You havn't fought your point about why you should have got a refund.
I have and that is my original argument - Its not completed, its no way near completed and others agree i should get a refund because its just not up to scratch as i've said several times, mabey your forgetting the past 6 pages of un-nessicery arguments. when users have stated on more than one occasion to just refund it.

Now you screwed Excellent2 over, I'm sure it will come back and slap you.
Lol im sure it will come back to slap you aswell my friend, you've prooved your immaturity in arguing throughout this thread, with points that arent really valid like my grammar which have nothing to do with this, Aswell as your ridcolous attempts at trying to sound like a half-proffesional 'web developer'.

"What goes around comes around"
And im sure as a cocky developer who believes they are god the same will happen to you :)

And your comment on the Habbo Forum is awful. We are in the Web Development section. All of us, at one point, played Habbo. Theres no denying it :P But we have grown up and now we post in the "Web Development" section. Posting in one section of a forum makes you adult.. wow

Yes, Habbox Forum may be aimed at habbo users, but I would hazard a guess that the majority of users barely go on habbo.

Yet acusing users of playing habbo, when its actualy a habbo forum - Your point is totally invalid

[Excellent2]

Err, you just did respond. Now look who the failure is.I wouldn't bother responding in a nasty manner to a comment about techtuts.. :P


Blatant lieing, even if its some sad attempt at getting to me you've failed lols at your desperate attempt to stir trouble, lol how many people have you actualy asked? LOL, and god knows where that insult came from, digging around in desperation I guess.

If that makes me a failure what does it make you, atleast i carry out what my clients have payed me for and will rightfully return money when and if neccesserily, your talking about the world of habbo, yet your hanging around on a habbo forum i think your forgetting, now i'[m not saying theres anything wrong with this but if your having a go at others for actualy playing it.. ON A HABBO FORUM?


& LOLBut you are a kid? You started turning on caps lop when I refused to pay back the fiver and then you tried to manipulate me by saying you'd post a thread on here and how you'd let everybody know that I'm a fraud? I didn't forget to mention the old paypal lark, "I'll be submitting this to paypal". Yes, kid.

I haven't asked anybody, I've had quite a few people from this forum on msn tell me.

What clients do you have? 1-2 that you host for free? I carried out what I was asked to do but couldn't complete all of it as I have other things to do, you knew this. I'm not going to sit at home all day, avoid college and get fired from work because some 12 year old wants his deadline met. You was getting a bloody bargain for what you offered anyway. Be thankful I even did work for you. The money was for my labour costs, you do know what labour means don't you? And it's spelt necessarily.

The habbo forum insult, it's getting old now. Incase you didn't notice this forum offers a wide range of topics for users to discuss things. This current forum we're in is web dev forums which in short terms, means website development. I'm not hanging around the habbo forums as I don't play it.

If you really want to keep on trying to argue back, go ahead.

Edited by Wayne (Forum Super Moderator) Please don't start arguments.

[Awfy]

HabboxForum is made up of users who originated from Habbo (not everyone but most), at one point or another we will all have played Habbo. However now that we've quit we continue to use this forum as we know the community and can discuss in confidence of knowing each other.

What's the point of going elsewhere when the people we discuss the topics with are still all based here? I don't think I've even posted in the Habbo related sections as I've been entirely focused on this section. Many others will be the same. Doesn't mean I should leave just because I don't play Habbo, there's a web development section for a reason.

Tim you seriously need to grow up and stop trying to argue that £5 is a lot of money. £5 in the real world would possibly make the developer open his/hers IDE then stop from lack of funds.

[Tomm]

HabboxForum is made up of users who originated from Habbo (not everyone but most), at one point or another we will all have played Habbo. However now that we've quit we continue to use this forum as we know the community and can discuss in confidence of knowing each other.

What's the point of going elsewhere when the people we discuss the topics with are still all based here? I don't think I've even posted in the Habbo related sections as I've been entirely focused on this section. Many others will be the same. Doesn't mean I should leave just because I don't play Habbo, there's a web development section for a reason.

Tim you seriously need to grow up and stop trying to argue that £5 is a lot of money. £5 in the real world would possibly make the developer open his/hers IDE then stop from lack of funds.

Tis true. You can pay me £5 for me to confirm your specifications.

[Tim.]

£5 isn't alot of money - But i can spend it on things alot more worth while rather than wasting it on you? And the fact is I wasnt just paying £5 It was a deposit, and to be honest i could spend it on better things which are alot more worthwhile rather than just waste it - I wasnt the one who started the thread on whether i should refund this was I? Jeez... You also keep on emphasising about my age, Well infact im only 1 year younger than you, therefore i would stop trying to have a snap at the 'age' insults and actually get back onto topic. You've totally changed your arguments, originally this was to find out whether i should receive a refund, users here had told you to, so you did, then it turned into ******** off people who disagreed with you.

And for the records, i have more than 1-2 clients, and im happy to say they have ALL been satisfied with my work and the services i provide.. Unlike someone else i know.

[Kyle!]

You're in the wrong I think, you said it would be completed and it wasn't. I hate it when people come up with excuses like I've had too much work from College and Christmas, you knew Christmas was coming so why did you take it on? You have no time to code yet you have time to come on Habbox Forum daily and post?

Yeah i agree with Tim and FlyDuo.

[Excellent2]

£5 isn't alot of money - But i can spend it on things alot more worth while rather than wasting it on you? And the fact is I wasnt just paying £5 It was a deposit, and to be honest i could spend it on better things which are alot more worthwhile rather than just waste it - I wasnt the one who started the thread on whether i should refund this was I? Jeez... You also keep on emphasising about my age, Well infact im only 1 year younger than you, therefore i would stop trying to have a snap at the 'age' insults and actually get back onto topic. You've totally changed your arguments, originally this was to find out whether i should receive a refund, users here had told you to, so you did, then it turned into ******** off people who disagreed with you.

And for the records, i have more than 1-2 clients, and im happy to say they have ALL been satisfied with my work and the services i provide.. Unlike someone else i know.Exactly, it was a deposit for my labour . You just proved that I was right to say I was keeping it, well done:eusa_clap You wasn't the one who started the thread but you would have if I didn't so don't try that trick. I doubt you're that old, you can't even spell properly. And we found out that I was right but you're still trying to hold onto some pride and therefore I'm replying. The only users who told me to are people who have no idea about web development, bar 1 or 2. 3 clients? wow :)!

[Tim.]

Exactly, it was a deposit for my labour . You just proved that I was right to say I was keeping it, well done:eusa_clap Labour for actually completing something worth while. Lol it didnt proove anything if anything your just pointing out the reason we had such a fuss over this. So then again, what labour? And actually your saying you've just prooved you were right, but the original intention of this thread wa sto find out if you were right? Oh deary me.. You wasn't the one who started the thread but you would have if I didn't so don't try that trick. I doubt you're that old Well you have no evidence to suggest overwise, and infact i am 15 so there goes another one of your arguments about me being a child. you can't even spell properly Oh is that correct i'm pretty sure that you wouldnt have a clue what i've sold, i actualy made a rather healthy profit on the fansite i had produced, my hosting is going well, oh and my real life buisness is picking up - Thus the reason why i need a website design (which you so kindly interupted showing your unproffesionalism) And we found out that I was right but you're still trying to hold onto some pride and therefore I'm replying Lol funny, that we didnt find out your right, because obviously others still agree with me.. Your not right and you were never right and even yourself belived that as you refunded my payment, or you got scared because of my threats is what you'll probably say. The only users who told me to are people who have no idea about web development, bar 1 or 2. 3 clients? wow :)!Lol I think you've just offended most of the people in this thread - Good luck in the future Lmao.


Lol oh yeah one other thing, your replying with pride and proffesionalism, like you said you werent going to, and your calling me a child (even though im obviously not) What does that make you if your replying to the posts of a 'CHILD' one after the other... Unproffesional? Childish? Call me what you like lol..

[Excellent2]

These people all have a sense of web development and they agreed:
Awfy.
Tomm
Jackboy
Matt on msn.
Protege

Now lets see who does not agree with me:
Pazza
RYANNNN
.:.:jjm261:.:.
FlyDuo
TomSpit
Test:Tube:Baby
RelientCraig

You will now find that only 2 of the people that agreed with you have a sense of web development.. Actually, 1.

Point proven, case closed.

[Tim.]

So really 3 people, because theyres quite a few people i could also mention from msn lols... And tbh i wouldnt call you a proffesional either to be perfectly honest as we've seen whats come out of this.

You keep saying case closed but it was ages ago? And i feel fine blaming the fact its gone on for so long on you, you stirred trouble in my other post which just shows how unproffesional you are as commented by a poster in that thread. LOL you just kept arguing even after the point had been dropped.

Lol and so what if they dont have coding knowledge they know right from wrong, and they all have had knowledge or something to do with this sort of thing - And if they didnt have knwoledge why did you give me a refund when they told you to?

[Excellent2]

So really 3 people, because theyres quite a few people i could also mention from msn lols... And tbh i wouldnt call you a proffesional either to be perfectly honest as we've seen whats come out of this.

You keep saying case closed but it was ages ago? And i feel fine blaming the fact its gone on for so long on you, you stirred trouble in my other post which just shows how unproffesional you are as commented by a poster in that thread. LOL you just kept arguing even after the point had been dropped.

Lol and so what if they dont have coding knowledge they know right from wrong, and they all have had knowledge or something to do with this sort of thing - And if they didnt have knwoledge why did you give me a refund when they told you to?Sure there is. I'm very professional thankyou, I as nice enough to give you the benefit of the doubt and post this thread. This has gone on so long because you're a little boy with too much pride who when proved wrong just won't die down until he gets his sweets.

How do they know whats right from wrong when they probably don't even know how to display text on a webpage using php?

[Tim.]

Sure there is. I'm very professional thankyou, I as nice enough to give you the benefit of the doubt and post this thread. This has gone on so long because you're a little boy with too much pride who when proved wrong just won't die down until he gets his sweets.

How do they know whats right from wrong when they probably don't even know how to display text on a webpage using php?

1. Your not proffesional you wouldnt be arguing back with a 'little boy' which shows you feel you have too much pride to lose.

2. I'm arguing back because i genuinealy feel that what your saying is wrong, therefore i will keep arguing.

3. Lol, Why did you issue the refund when they told you to if they know nothing about php? Tell me why.. other that my constant threats.. because thats not the reason you said to wait and see what people told you to do.. Lol

[Excellent2]

1. Your not proffesional you wouldnt be arguing back with a 'little boy' which shows you feel you have too much pride to lose. I'm glad you agree that you're a little boy. I'm replying back because I won't have some boy who thinks he's right try to prove that I'm wrong.


2. I'm arguing back because i genuinealy feel that what your saying is wrong, therefore i will keep arguing.
For god sakes will you please learn how to spell?


3. Lol, Why did you issue the refund when they told you to if they know nothing about php? Tell me why.. other that my constant threats.. because thats not the reason you said to wait and see what people told you to do.. LolI issued the "refund" because I was sick and tired of you moaning and crying and throwing your toys about because you couldn't get your own way. Your threats were nothing. Only a few people replied when I sent over the money so thats out of the question.

If you really want to speak to me or argue this, PM me because it's getting boring now. I don't want to keep wrecking other peoples threads.

[Tim.]

I'm glad you agree that you're a little boy. I'm replying back because I won't have some boy who thinks he's right try to prove that I'm wrong.

Well excellent most of the people here agree your wrong, and they all have a reason for it.

For god sakes will you please learn how to spell? Just a quick note: Spelling has nothing to do with this - Your running out of ideas or something?

I issued the "refund" because I was sick and tired of you moaning and crying and throwing your toys about because you couldn't get your own way. Your threats were nothing. Only a few people replied when I sent over the money so thats out of the question. Well you were right too, because 7 people posted saying yes you should return the money and 3 people supported you. :D

If you really want to speak to me or argue this, PM me because it's getting boring now. I don't want to keep wrecking other peoples threads.

You dont want to keep wrecking peoples threads, well you've wrecked my other one enough even though the majority agree with me :) and this is your own thread so you know.


Anyway im bored of fighting with you, i have the money back and now thats all that matters, feel free to keep on arguing and commenting about me, after all it'll just show how proffesional you are, no wait i wouldnt worry about that - You've already proved how proffesional you are in my other thread

[Excellent2]

You dont want to keep wrecking peoples threads, well you've wrecked my other one enough even though the majority agree with me :) and this is your own thread so you know.


Anyway im bored of fighting with you, i have the money back and now thats all that matters, feel free to keep on arguing and commenting about me, after all it'll just show how proffesional you are, no wait i wouldnt worry about that - You've already proved how proffesional you are in my other thread I was giving an insight to potential clients just how difficult you were. I'm very professional, hense why I haven't been responding to your insults.

[Agnostic Bear]

I agree you're both ********, shut up and stop bickering.

[MrPinkPanther]

You will now find that only 2 of the people that agreed with you have a sense of web development.. Actually, 1.
I've never spent a single £ on web development except from buying my first domain for £5, I now own a large amount of domains and have £260 in my paypal. What does that tell you? Web development doesn't just include layouts, I develop a vast amount of Flash applications and games and sell them for a decent price whilst working on my own projects.

I also really think you need to look up the definition of the word professional.

[Tim.]

Like an adult i spoke to him on MSN to avoid further comments and threads, and i was told he didnt want kids on his msn, and blocked me. Lol Well excellent whos the child here? You've ruined yourself lol.

[MrPinkPanther]

Lol Well excellent whos the child here? You've ruined yourself lol.
Although I agree with you in principle, these sorts of comments really don't help.

[Tim.]

Although I agree with you in principle, these sorts of comments really don't help.
Yes i understand what your saying, but i feel that hes being unfair in two ways

- Saying im a child, when to be perfectly honest im a year younger than him,

- Saying hes proffessional when he then calls me a child then spends the next 7 pages of threads arguing with me

- I'm pretty sure most proffesionals would be happy to talk to people my age, its those who try too hard to look proffesional that end up resulting to things like this

[Excellent2]

I've never spent a single £ on web development except from buying my first domain for £5, I now own a large amount of domains and have £260 in my paypal. What does that tell you? Web development doesn't just include layouts, I develop a vast amount of Flash applications and games and sell them for a decent price whilst working on my own projects.

I also really think you need to look up the definition of the word professional.[/quote]I did not say anything about your skills. I also have done and I act it.


Like an adult i spoke to him on MSN to avoid further comments and threads, and i was told he didnt want kids on his msn, and blocked me. Lol Well excellent whos the child here? You've ruined yourself lol.What did I tell you? Contact me via PM, not msn. I told you I didn't want kids on my msn, whats the problem? I haven't ruined nothing, if anything I've realised that people on this forum are actually quite sensible.

Quit trying to get a reaction with them comments and just PM me if you want to argue this out.

[MrPinkPanther]

I did not say anything about your skills. I also have done and I act it.
See you don't know what professional means, the way you act is irrelevant.

"A professional is someone who has received formal training in a particular area and who also makes a living from it."


What did I tell you? Contact me via PM, not msn. I told you I didn't want kids on my msn, whats the problem? I haven't ruined nothing, if anything I've realised that people on this forum are actually quite sensible.
If he is a kid then so are you. As far as I know he hasn't gone into your threads slandering you like you have to him, if he has then I will take it all back.

[Excellent2]

See you don't know what professional means, the way you act is irrelevant.

"A professional is someone who has received formal training in a particular area and who also makes a living from it."
I guess I am a professional then as I'm being payed to attend my course at college.



If he is a kid then so are you. As far as I know he hasn't gone into your threads slandering you like you have to him, if he has then I will take it all back.I wasn't slandering him, I simply stated that he is difficult to deal with because he is..

[Joe!]

I guess I am a professional then as I'm being payed to attend my course at college.

I wasn't slandering him, I simply stated that he is difficult to deal with because he is..
Shame you can't spell paid :p
jks bbe

[Flisker]

Im with Excellent on this one.

[MrPinkPanther]

I guess I am a professional then as I'm being payed to attend my course at college.
You don't make a living from it. It's like my friend who gets EMA saying "oh I'm a professional photographer because I get £20 a week from the governement to take a photography A Level"

[Agnostic Bear]

Why haven't you all stopped bickering I thought I told you to stop bickering.

[kuzkasate]

So long as you made it clear, as far as I am aware your fine.

Although i think it would be better for you to finish it after christmas

EDIT: After seeing tim.'s post, I think he should get a full refund TBH, if not a Partial one as if he paid £5 for effort it looks like not much has gone into it

totally agreeded ;]

[Protege]

I've never spent a single £ on web development except from buying my first domain for £5, I now own a large amount of domains and have £260 in my paypal. What does that tell you? Web development doesn't just include layouts, I develop a vast amount of Flash applications and games and sell them for a decent price whilst working on my own projects.

I also really think you need to look up the definition of the word professional.
i loled, thanks.

[MrPinkPanther]

i loled, thanks.
Why? I'm not trying to big myself up in any way he just said that I knew nothing about web development and I was just showing that I clearly do because I've made a decent amount of money from it in the past few months.

[kk.]

You don't make a living from it. It's like my friend who gets EMA saying "oh I'm a professional photographer because I get £20 a week from the governement to take a photography A Level"

wth r u on about? What do you think the meaning behind this thread is? Its about being PAID TO MAKE SOMETHING. That is quite clearly making money from a profession.

witht he people saying its only £5, it works both ways for both of them. Its only £5 so why is lucas bothered or its only £5 so why does Tim want it back.

in my opinion, Lucas, you should have kept the money however you both have grounds. You never completed the project and normally a deposit is for work to be completed and delivered on time. Even though you offered him the unfinished coding its not completed. Had you signed a contract saying this however, i would be saying Tim should get the refund but as you didnt, you are entitled to keep all of the deposit for the labour cost.


And can everyone stop ******** about how professional you are and posting off topic :/

[Tim.]

Lol just as i thought this thread would die.

[Apui]

Edited by Wayne (Forum Super Moderator) Please don't start arguments.

Bit late to add that comment in....

And Tim, please bare in mind 'your' is not the same as 'you're'.
Sorry, it just bugs me :D

[Protege]

Why? I'm not trying to big myself up in any way he just said that I knew nothing about web development and I was just showing that I clearly do because I've made a decent amount of money from it in the past few months.

You don't need to make money off of web development to know something about it.

[.Zi]

WOW THAT TOOK A WHILE TO READ!



You are both sad.

You charged £5 for PHP coding? That is really sad. You are undercutting all the good coders with your procedural etc.

I have quoted £40 minimum for any user systems I do...

However, Tim you are sad for wanting £5 back when Excellent2 has actually spent time on the work (YOU PAID FOR THE), whether he completed it or not, you paid £5 for the labour, which he provided.

He supplied the labour as said, and the £5 was just the deposit, he was getting more once the job was complete.


You keep the deposit no matter what, one of the main reason of taking a deposit is to support your time and expenditures during the planning and arrangement time. If someone is to use your time and effort (no matter how small) then agreed deposit is now ethically the developers.

It is up to the developer to give them a refund but in my eyes not necessary. Unless there was an agreement at the start of the project which clearly stated that the deposit is refundable then sure Luke is in the wrong, otherwise not.

Totally agree :O


Well to be perfectly honest i didnt say ill 'wreck your reputation' I actualy said well ill just ask the people on habbox, and then 2 minutes later you decided to post it.

Also i understand labour costs to be when someone produces something which you can actualy use without having to pay others to sort it out so its actualy functional?

Look as i said earlier i know long care for this, you can argue, say crap about me, at the end of the day you can tarnish my reputation on here, but to be quite honest i'm not going to hang around on habbox all my life - So go ahead its only £5 but some of us arent loaded and dont have all the cash in the world.

You aren't loaded yet your spending money on little usersystems etc.?


Your a web developer you can charge what you like, I wasnt just paying £5, and that in my eyes wasnt worth it, sorry if you think otherwise.

and the part where you said ' I was crying ' GOD Thats aload of crap. You said We'll wait and see what the hxf users say, and you refunded because several told you to. I Said thank you. but you couldnt drop it because one member sticks up for you. Can you just drop this case, your calling me immature, yet have you seen yourselves i've said atleast twice now forget it i dont care, and you still keep going on and on trying to cause an argument, just shut up? I get the point. I dont give a crap anymore.

Just trying to stop it coz ur getting beaten hehe.



Wow. How do you get clients when you struggle to use correct grammar.

You havn't fought your point about why you should have got a refund.

Now you screwed Excellent2 over, I'm sure it will come back and slap you.

"What goes around comes around"

And your comment on the Habbo Forum is awful. We are in the Web Development section. All of us, at one point, played Habbo. Theres no denying it :P But we have grown up and now we post in the "Web Development" section.

Yes, Habbox Forum may be aimed at habbo users, but I would hazard a guess that the majority of users barely go on habbo.

I hope Tim gets hit with a big wet fish as punishment :)


1. Your not proffesional you wouldnt be arguing back with a 'little boy' which shows you feel you have too much pride to lose.

2. I'm arguing back because i genuinealy feel that what your saying is wrong, therefore i will keep arguing.

3. Lol, Why did you issue the refund when they told you to if they know nothing about php? Tell me why.. other that my constant threats.. because thats not the reason you said to wait and see what people told you to do.. Lol

Replies to:
1. Actually he is arguing back to prove I point which to me he has proved.
2. And you are spoilt thinking the world revolves around you so it has to work our for you or the word will end.
3. Because he does not wish to argue with a 'child'


You dont want to keep wrecking peoples threads, well you've wrecked my other one enough even though the majority agree with me :) and this is your own thread so you know.


Anyway im bored of fighting with you, i have the money back and now thats all that matters, feel free to keep on arguing and commenting about me, after all it'll just show how proffesional you are, no wait i wouldnt worry about that - You've already proved how proffesional you are in my other thread

Your wrecking his thread - he came honestly asking weather to give a refund and lets look at you now??

Yes i understand what your saying, but i feel that hes being unfair in two ways

- Saying im a child, when to be perfectly honest im a year younger than him,

- Saying hes proffessional when he then calls me a child then spends the next 7 pages of threads arguing with me

- I'm pretty sure most proffesionals would be happy to talk to people my age, its those who try too hard to look proffesional that end up resulting to things like this

Actually most would feel uncomftable due to the fact that you would be unsecure if you get me :P


See you don't know what professional means, the way you act is irrelevant.

"A professional is someone who has received formal training in a particular area and who also makes a living from it."


If he is a kid then so are you. As far as I know he hasn't gone into your threads slandering you like you have to him, if he has then I will take it all back.


You'd best be taking it back coz you've posted in the thread - this one.


Im with Excellent on this one.

So am I :P


EDIT: Sorry my spelling sucks coz ill admit it i'm only 12. Anyway yeh im with Excellent :)

[Tim.]

You aren't loaded yet your spending money on little usersystems etc.?
Well actualy to be totally honest you spend on what you want, and you know what its got nothing to do with you what i spend my money on, and this project i've been wanting to do it for years, and now im doing it.


Replies to:
1. Actually he is arguing back to prove I point which to me he has proved.
2. And you are spoilt thinking the world revolves around you so it has to work our for you or the word will end.
At no point did i say the world revolves around me, lol your talking apsolute rubbish, all i said was that i feel im correct so i will carry on arguing? Therefore most of the people in this thread belive the world revolves around them, because theyre arguing in what they think is right.. You really didnt think that one through did you?
3. Because he does not wish to argue with a 'child'
Lol and you posting is going to help because your 12? Wow


Your wrecking his thread - he came honestly asking weather to give a refund and lets look at you now?? How am i wrecking his thread lol thats a load of rubbish, the thread concerns me so i'm arguing my point, you expect me to just shut up as he slanders me and others dont hear the full side of the story?




EDIT: Sorry my spelling sucks coz ill admit it i'm only 12. Anyway yeh im with Excellent :)

If you read that this argument had honestly turned into a change of subject. and every one else seemed to have stopped arguing about this topic, well done for starting this all again! And actually i think Excellent wanted it to stop aswell. So welldone my friend another 5 pages of arguments will soon start im pretty sure.

Also back to one point Excellent mentioned to get at me and the people who agreed with me - Any coding experience?

[MrPinkPanther]

You don't need to make money off of web development to know something about it.
Obviously but because this thread is about payments, deposits etc it's probably better that you have made money because then you can compare it to how you do payments. I personally don't take any sort of payment until the client is 100% happy with it. For example if I made a Flash game and they didn't like it then they wouldn't have to pay anything for it and I would just sell it on to someone else.

Also I didn't say that you needed too but the fact that I have made a fairly large amount of money off of web development shows that I clearly do know something about it, which he said I didn't.

Anyway, back on topic.

[.Zi]

;) Your welcome