PDA

View Full Version : Abortion : Right or Wrong?



marriott0.01
12-02-2009, 02:44 PM
I know this is a well debated issue, but me and Sammeth. have just been arguing non-stop on MSN about the issue, and personally I believe that a doctor has the duty to protect every life, even if it is unborn the baby is still alive.

However Sam thinks that abortion should occur in extreme circumstances, which I have to disagree with because there are alternatives.

What do you think? Who do you agree with? And what are your opinions on abortion?

buttons
12-02-2009, 02:47 PM
wrong. wrong. wrong. wrong. wrong.
i don't care the case, if it's gonna be disabled or you were raped, the baby should still be born. you can easily give your baby up to others that can't have any children of their own.
any form of murder (which abortion is) is a sin, i don't think it matters how far on the pregnancy is it's still wrong.

marriott0.01
12-02-2009, 02:48 PM
wrong. wrong. wrong. wrong. wrong.
i don't care the case, if it's gonna be disabled or you were raped, the baby should still be born. you can easily give your baby up to others that can't have any cildren of their own.
any form of murder (which abortion is) is a sin, i don't think it matters how far on the pregnancy is it's still wrong.
I completely agree, there are alternatives, such as giving the baby away. You should never have to kill.

flatface
12-02-2009, 02:50 PM
wrong. wrong. wrong. wrong. wrong.
i don't care the case, if it's gonna be disabled or you were raped, the baby should still be born. you can easily give your baby up to others that can't have any cildren of their own.
any form of murder (which abortion is) is a sin, i don't think it matters how far on the pregnancy is it's still wrong.

I agree with you Jezh, if you really don't want a child give it up for adoption to someone who actually does. However if the Mother could die giving birth then I am in favor of abortion.

Sammeth.
12-02-2009, 02:57 PM
Although I would rather you would have asked before tying my name into the discussion, I will reply.

After studying childcare for the past two years I've been going over abortion for a long time through lessons and education, and have even had the unpleasant experience of watching one. I still stand by what I say, and I am thankful for the laws that the UK currently have in place regarding abortion.

"legal for rape, maternal life, health, mental health, socioeconomic factors, and/or fetal defects"

It leaves it as an option. If a woman decides she can cope after being victim of rape, or would risk her life for her babies then that's up to her to decide - its not for me to decide. Each and every case of an abortion is specific to their beliefs not mine. All I'm happy with is the option for them rather than me. At the end of the day I don't understand what they, as mothers, will be feeling. It's not just the simple case of "Oh it's only 9 months" as you have said to me on MSN. It's a lot more than that. I do think its wrong to get an abortion for very trivial reasons such as a product of underage or unsafe sex. However looking at it with the mothers and childs best interests at heart, there should always be an option for the worse case scenarios. No one should be able to legislate peoples freedom. Not one person has the right to tell someone what they can and can't do in regards to that. I do not have the right to go up to a mother who has been raped, a mother who might die if she gives a birth, a mother of a severely disabled child who will suffer the rest of his or her life and say "You can absolutely not get an abortion" as I have a heart and although I might not be capable of understanding every bit of suffering they are going through, I can at least empathise. I don't have the right to make life changing choices for other people, and they do not have the right to do the same for me. We are people, not machines and I do not make up peoples minds up for them by legislating their choices.

mariamcdee
12-02-2009, 03:14 PM
wrong. wrong. wrong. wrong. wrong.
i don't care the case, if it's gonna be disabled or you were raped, the baby should still be born. you can easily give your baby up to others that can't have any children of their own.
any form of murder (which abortion is) is a sin, i don't think it matters how far on the pregnancy is it's still wrong.


But that child might grow up thinking his/her parents hated him/her and didnt want him/her.
I still mostly disagree with abortion though

buttons
12-02-2009, 03:23 PM
I do not have the right to go up to a mother who has been raped, a mother who might die if she gives a birth, a mother of a severely disabled child who will suffer the rest of his or her life and say "You can absolutely not get an abortion" as I have a heart and although I might not be capable of understanding every bit of suffering they are going through, I can at least empathise. I don't have the right to make life changing choices for other people, and they do not have the right to do the same for me. We are people, not machines and I do not make up peoples minds up for them by legislating their choices.
right, so because i think abortion is a no-no i don't have a heart?? i'm not going to judge a mother on their decision (unless ofcourse it's something stupid like 'i was drunk and forgot protection')

But that child might grow up thinking his/her parents hated him/her and didnt want him/her.
I still mostly disagree with abortion though
well that's true, it's better to have a happy life than none at all though & it's up to them if they want to visit their parents or not afterwards, it's better to give them a chance than none at all.
Life is meant to be carried on through generations, therefore giving birth, not killing :/ but i still think if the mother's in danger of death giving birth that's the only good reason for abortions & you even see some mothers taking that risk and giving birth anyway

Sammeth.
12-02-2009, 03:33 PM
right, so because i think abortion is a no-no i don't have a heart?? i'm not going to judge a mother on their decision (unless ofcourse it's something stupid like 'i was drunk and forgot protection')

No I never said that. I said that I wouldn't be able to judge a mother because I (me personally, not speaking on behalf of anyone else, thats what I means) have a heart to. If you don't agree that's your perogative, it doesn't mean you don't have a heart it just means that in your heart you feel something different. All metaphorical of course. I think you're reading too much into certain phrases and ignoring the bigger picture, the actual MAIN point of what I was getting across.

marriott0.01
12-02-2009, 03:42 PM
I just think that a life is a life, and anyone who ends a life doesn't deserve to have there's. That's why some countries have the death penalty.

But even if someone is raped, the mother shouldn't have the choice to end the babies life, because even though the man who has raped the woman has done wrong, the baby has done nothing at all wrong, and therefore doesn't need punishing. You never know the mother could grow to love the baby.

Sammeth.
12-02-2009, 03:46 PM
I just think that a life is a life, and anyone who ends a life doesn't deserve to have there's. That's why some countries have the death penalty.

But even if someone is raped, the mother shouldn't have the choice to end the babies life, because even though the man who has raped the woman has done wrong, the baby has done nothing at all wrong, and therefore doesn't need punishing. You never know the mother could grow to love the baby.

Of course thats good, and if they feel they can have the baby, in the UK they have the choice to, which is a good thing. Everyone should be given the choice to decide and not have other peoples opinions thrust upon them through law. Just because some people think its right it doesnt make it right and just because some people think its wrong it doesnt make it wrong. The only person who should be deciding on whether to abort their baby for necessary reasons is the mother who is capable, mature and can think for herself without having other people limiting her choices. If she decides not to go for an abortion thats fantastic, if she decides to go for it for any particular reason that could easily be seen as acceptable (not just rape as that seems to keep coming up as if its the only reason), then we cannot judge her.

marriott0.01
12-02-2009, 03:49 PM
What other sane reasons could there be? Oh the condom split, that's not an efficient reason just means they were doing it too hard, or they need to invest in a better condom!

There is NO excuse for an abortion killing is killing.

Sammeth.
12-02-2009, 03:57 PM
What other sane reasons could there be? Oh the condom split, that's not an efficient reason just means they were doing it too hard, or they need to invest in a better condom!

There is NO excuse for an abortion killing is killing.

Definitelynot a condom splitting. In fact that as a reason would mean an illegal abortion and rightly so. How about the fact the mother could die during birth? Or the baby will be born with severe disabilities that make living for him or her very difficult, and maybe even painful? I think those reasons are better than any, even rape, as valid reasons for abortion.

marriott0.01
12-02-2009, 04:00 PM
Well if the mother is going to die, they'll have to explore every possible option before even considering abortion, if there is even the slightest chance they should take it. But if there is 0 chance the woman would die, she should have the option of a humane way like a pill. Not some of the ways they have, when it's late in pregnancy.

And if the baby is disabled, even more reason to have the baby as it means that people aren't going to give up on him, and at least he'll still see some life. A short life is better than no life.

Sammeth.
12-02-2009, 04:04 PM
Well if the mother is going to die, they'll have to explore every possible option before even considering abortion, if there is even the slightest chance they should take it. But if there is 0 chance the woman would die, she should have the option of a humane way like a pill. Not some of the ways they have, when it's late in pregnancy.

And if the baby is disabled, even more reason to have the baby as it means that people aren't going to give up on him, and at least he'll still see some life. A short life is better than no life.
I don't know what the laws are like where you live but you cannot have an abortion after 24 weeks in the UK, and the methods are humane. And as you've just admitted there are at least some reasons where abortion is acceptable. And when it comes to the disabled thing I don't mean disabilities that are relatively easy to live with in a modern world where things can be adapted. I mean disabilities where babies could be put in pain every single day of their lives. If you are willing to let a child into the world knowing it will be in pain every day it lives then that's kind of harsh, even if you think its giving them a chance to see some life. A short painful tortured life isn't better than a painless death.

marriott0.01
12-02-2009, 04:07 PM
It is, because they may get over the torture, and they have a choice to live, and if they decide they don't want to live anymore when they are older than they have the choice to go to switzerland.

But the baby will forget the pain, and we even have a chance that the disability won't cause pain, we won't know because it'll be unborn. Even if it has a disability then it may not cause pain there are always chances and miracles and we should always take them.

Lee.Norman
12-02-2009, 04:11 PM
I agree with Sammeth.

The decision to have an abortion should always be thought through very carefully. But, in some extreme circumstances, it should the down to the mother to make the final decision on whether an abortion is the right choice.

Its not easy to give an accurate view on this, unless you have been through it. But if the mother was likely to die during birth, then she should have the option to abort the child, in order to save her own life.

So, in my opinion on whether abortion is right or wrong, it would depend on each individual situation. But sometimes, and only in extreme circumstances, its right. But if its a splitting condom or something stupid, then thats no reason to kill an unborn child.

Sammeth.
12-02-2009, 04:12 PM
You cant shake off a disability? They won't just get over it just like that. I'm talking about cases where doctors can identify certain abnormalities and know what pain the baby will feel it it is born. Medicine is a lot more advanced funnily enough and doctors can spot these things early on. Relying on miracles is very naive in my opinion.

marriott0.01
12-02-2009, 04:15 PM
But you can NEVER be certain, it could be common to have pain in a certain illness, but it has the slimmest chance that it won't and I would take that chance, it is the right thing to do.

buttons
12-02-2009, 04:17 PM
I'm sorry Sam but you're saying a woman has the right to decide if someone else (their baby) dies??? that's not really the case, of course the unborn child can't decide for itself, but neither should anyone else. Yes, that's a silly argument but killing of any kind is illegal. But that's also another reason as to why it's wrong, they have no choice in the matter and have done nothing wrong to deserve to die. If you were asked if murder was wrong, you'd probably say yes, right?? so why is it any different to abortion, abortion is murder :/
You are right in saying the mother will have to carry the burden of giving away a child after all the pain and depression etc in going through pregnancy and labour, but they're gonna suffer the same and maybe even more by just giving it up. At the end of the day you can have your opinion because there isn't a right or wrong answer but i'm gonna stick to mine.

Sammeth.
12-02-2009, 04:18 PM
But you can NEVER be certain, it could be common to have pain in a certain illness, but it has the slimmest chance that it won't and I would take that chance, it is the right thing to do.
Its what you think is the right thing to do, and thats fine, but thats you personally. It is not your decision to make though on behalf of other mothers. Until you get pregnant and come face to face with a scenario where yours or the future of your babys life hangs in the balance you will never know how it feels, and I won't even pretend to which is why I would never take away the right off another human to make decisions for themselves.

Edit: Jen, it isn't classed as murder as the baby isn't developed enough to feel any pain and it won't know at all that it ever existed or what is happening to it. After 24 weeks a death certificate is required and THATS when it becomes murder, which is wrong. A few week old baby cannot make decisions for itself so who else is left do that? Seeing as I can't, you can't, well no one can, it leaves it down to the mother to be able to make a decision about her child. You're right, there isnt a wrong or right answer - if I had the option I've said, I would never be able to get an abortion because I wouldn't be able to bring myself to. But just because I think one thing doesn't mean I should force it upon everyone.

marriott0.01
12-02-2009, 04:22 PM
Would YOU want to live? If you were the child would you want to live? That's the questions mothers think of. All they think of is themselves.

N-Dubz
12-02-2009, 04:24 PM
I agree that the baby should be born, even if the girl was raped - the baby didn't ask for its father to rape you. If you were foolish enough to not use protection, why should you abort the baby because of your mistake? It deserves a chance at life, and shouldn't be stopped because of people's mistakes.

On the other hand, if the baby is going to be disabled to an extreme I don't agree it should be born. What sort of life is that? For a person to be stuck in a weelchair since birth - or pointed at because they look "odd". If they've never had a chance to be run around like normal kids, or talk and speak like one then what sort of life is that? Where a mother has to look after you for the rest of your life...

If the baby is healthy is should be born, if the baby when its born will be completely disabled it shouldn't.

Sammeth.
12-02-2009, 04:24 PM
Would YOU want to live? If you were the child would you want to live? That's the questions mothers think of. All they think of is themselves.
You cannot make generalisations like that. Have you asked every single mother who has ever contemplated an abortion? No. Don't say things as if they are fact when they clearly aren't. You are making it out as if at this age the baby knows of its own existence and can think for itself and can feel pain and can make up its own mind.

Edit: I'm glad people understand that there are at least some cases where abortion is right. The only thing I'm stressing is that some cases it should be left up to the mother rather than have a select group of peoples opinions enforced by law. Its not right to be able to take someone else's right to make this choice away.

Bomb-Head
12-02-2009, 04:26 PM
I personally don't agree with abortion at all - and I think that the UK law which could enable a woman who is 24 weeks pregnant to have an abortion is quite sick actually. Someone said the methods are humain - the ones at the later stage are certainly not. One involves forcing the baby out in breech condition with forceps, stabbing their head and sucking their brains out. In my opinion, abortions should only (if at all) be legal up to the point where the fertalised egg turns into an embryo.

However, I don't think anyone has a right to choose whether a woman can have an abortion or not except the woman herself because she will know best (providing it's before the fertalised egg has turned into an embryo of course - after that, if it were up to be it would be a case of tough luck).

I don't even think abortion is acceptable when the mothers health is in danger - in my opinion, they should just deliver the baby the minute the diagnosis is made and try their hardest to keep it alive rather than just killing it.

Lee.Norman
12-02-2009, 04:26 PM
This debate will go on for a long time... And there is no right or wrong answer.

Everyone has their own views and opinions, and nobody can give an accurate view until they experience the situation.

My view is that it can be right in SOME extreme circumstances.

So thats where I'm leaving it... and getting out of the debate :)

clueless
12-02-2009, 04:54 PM
i think it should be more of a 'last resort'
i dont see it as right but i cant help but think it depends on the situation and sometimes its just not right to bring a baby into the world and it is the mothers choice
but yeah im not for it but certainly not against it either, free will and all.

just a last resort

RandomManJay
12-02-2009, 05:24 PM
Although I do believe that every life has a right to live, I don't really have an issue with abortion. Since an embryo or foetus doesn't really have anything that can strictly define it as humanly capable of making a decision for itself, I feel that the parents have a right to choose its fate.

Also, to those who say there are other options like adoption, in some cases its not possible to put children (severly disabled or not, born or unborn) on the adoption list due to its illness or the parents being unable to fund the adoption itself, therefore the parents themselves are left to deal with it, and considering they were unable to care for the child, they could be prosecuted to the full extent of the law for being forced to care for a child they're willing to give up so the child can have a better life, so in so many ways, forcing a child into a family that cannot care for it, whether it is disabled or not, could be considered worse and even against human rights, so aborting it before it is even able to experience pain or 'human' life itself could be seen as the lesser of two evils.

Virgin Mary
12-02-2009, 06:00 PM
Would YOU want to live? If you were the child would you want to live? That's the questions mothers think of. All they think of is themselves.
That's gross oversimplification.

RedStratocas
12-02-2009, 06:55 PM
this is a touchy issue, and i really understand the other side, butttttt

i am a strong believer that anyone should be able to do whatever they want as long as it isnt hurting anyone else. it's a woman's body and no one can tell them what to do with it. there's a certain point that a baby is considered alive and i suppose that should be the point where it should be illegal, but since im not an expert on that area i wont go there.

its a sweet thing to think that you can just give the baby up if you dont want it, but lets face it, there's not long lines of people outside orphanages waiting to adopt kids. if abortion were to be illegal, we would have an epidemic of parentless children filling up orphanges never truly having a set of parental figures to look up to. not only that, taxes would have to be raised quite heavily in order to take care of these millions of kids no one wants.

on the other hand, gay couples have been wanting the right to adopt for years. the only compromise i see: if you're gonna make abortion illegal, you have to allow gay couples (married or not) to adopt.

Technologic
12-02-2009, 08:07 PM
I am all for it, just like i'm all for stem cell research etc.

Immenseman
12-02-2009, 08:13 PM
I hate things like this because there has to be a definite yes or no answer when really such an answer isn't practical. There are obviously pros and cons of both sides of the arguments, which one out weighs the other is mere opinion. I believe the current law for the UK is it's legal but you need permission from two different doctors. I believe this is the best policy we could possibly have.

What we really need is for the situation to be examined, every single one to be looked at. This is time consuming and it would then fall upon one doctors opinion, if the doctor in question had been brought up being told abortion was wrong he'd give a different answer to another equally qualified doctor who hadn't.

Leave the law like it is for this one!

Kardan
12-02-2009, 08:27 PM
I agree with Sammeth. and that abortion should be allowed in extreme cases and that it fits within the law :)

Immenseman
12-02-2009, 08:28 PM
Who determines what an extreme case is though?!

Kardan
12-02-2009, 08:32 PM
Good point. I'd always say the mother and father; for example, if the embryo was screened and she knew the child would have a severe disability meaning it's quality of life would be severly reduced, then it should be put to the mother to see if she believes she's able to cope etc.
But if it's a really serious suituation, and the mother isn't able to make a decision (for example if her life is in danger) then surely it has to be made by a doctor unless the mother has made arrangements before with a doctor or her family.

I believe that if the mother and child's life is in danger, they should focus on the mother mainly and try to help the child if possible, unless the mother or her family has other prefrences that she's mentioned before hand (a bit like the woman who was dead but was kept alive so her child could be born).

Immenseman
12-02-2009, 08:35 PM
It's just when you leave it down to professionals they're only human and some will be more lenient than others. One may enforce an abortion upon a women because her life was in danger against her wishes whereas another doctor might be willing to take the risk if she was comfortable with it.

Kardan
12-02-2009, 08:37 PM
It's just when you leave it down to professionals they're only human and some will be more lenient than others. One may enforce an abortion upon a women because her life was in danger against her wishes whereas another doctor might be willing to take the risk if she was comfortable with it.

I'm sure it's law that a doctor has to follow a patient's wishes? Like I'm sure you can carry a card that will allow you to die if the doctors had to make a choice between saving your life or letting you die. But then there's another way you have to look at it. What if the mother has just been in something traumatic and isn't in the right state of mind to make a decision? It's a very difficult topic really.

5,5
12-02-2009, 09:35 PM
I honsetly think that it is nobodys elses problem or business if someone wants to get an abortion. I think if the pregnant woman would like an abortion, they should be able to get one. Its nobodys job to worry about whether or not people have their baby or not so I dont care whether or not people have abortions, as long as the option is always open for the people that actually want to.

Nixt
12-02-2009, 10:20 PM
But you can NEVER be certain, it could be common to have pain in a certain illness, but it has the slimmest chance that it won't and I would take that chance, it is the right thing to do.

No you can never be certain, but do you think that you should have the baby born to live a (probably) short life of pain and discomfort on the basis of a microscopically small chance of a miracle?

I personally believe that in cases of extreme circumstance, abortion should be permitted. For example in the event of the likelihood of maternal death abortion should be allowed. I admire the bravery of women who continue with birth after being told they will not survive, however I do not believe that a mother should have to end her own life in order to bring another life (which is in fact considerably underdeveloped and barely "life" as a general term) into the world. I think if a lot of people had to choose between their own life and the life of something that barely exists yet you would find the choice extremely difficult and I think I know what you would choose; regardless of what you may think now.

DiscoPat
12-02-2009, 10:28 PM
I could'nt disagree more with the idea of abortion. Like many others have allready said above, there are a few wiser alternatives than to get rid of the baby before its born. I can understand that in extreme circumstances such as rape; there could be issues but still you could have the baby and place the baby in care, which means the baby in question is still born and lives a deserved life as no one has the right in my opinion to kill the baby before its born.

leah
13-02-2009, 02:07 AM
Giving birth is really painful, so I don't see why someone should go through that pain if they have no intention of keeping the child. Especially if they were young with no support or job.

RedStratocas
13-02-2009, 04:21 AM
i dont understand people who say "im against abortion other than in cases of rape." so a baby thats a product of rape is less than a baby that's a product of regular intercourse? explain that one to me.

Immenseman
13-02-2009, 07:29 AM
i dont understand people who say "im against abortion other than in cases of rape." so a baby thats a product of rape is less than a baby that's a product of regular intercourse? explain that one to me.
The child will feel **** when it understands it's father is a rapist and the mother didn't really plan to have a baby, he/she was forced upon her. I agree with you that they're still a normal child but the effect it could have on the child could be relatively bad.

buttons
13-02-2009, 10:43 AM
Giving birth is really painful, so I don't see why someone should go through that pain if they have no intention of keeping the child. Especially if they were young with no support or job.
yeh and if they just abort it? don't you think the mothers going to have some pain mentally? giving up a baby isn't easy but abortion is the easy and worse way out as i see it, what if that was their only chance to have a child? They will carry that burden around with them all the time and in most cases they probably regret doing it, as for being young with no support/job etc i'm sure i can name a few people that i know who have coped with it pretty well, and it's their own fault for getting pregnant so young.

i dont understand people who say "im against abortion other than in cases of rape." so a baby thats a product of rape is less than a baby that's a product of regular intercourse? explain that one to me.
yeah i know what you mean, just because your father was a rapist doesn't mean you have to abort the baby because it isn't the babies fault, it's not like it's going to turn out that way, and yeah maybe it's not gonna be with it's own father but it doesn't mean the baby doesn't deserve to live.

The child will feel **** when it understands it's father is a rapist and the mother didn't really plan to have a baby, he/she was forced upon her. I agree with you that they're still a normal child but the effect it could have on the child could be relatively bad.
not really, you could experience other things aswell if you were born into a "normal family" like your father could do terrible stuff after you're born it's just the same as before, the baby isn't effected so why they should be killed cause of it?

i'm always going to think of abortion as murder no matter what anyone says and murder = illegal how i see it anyway

leah
13-02-2009, 11:03 AM
yeh and if they just abort it? don't you think the mothers going to have some pain mentally? giving up a baby isn't easy but abortion is the easy and worse way out as i see it, what if that was their only chance to have a child? They will carry that burden around with them all the time and in most cases they probably regret doing it, as for being young with no support/job etc i'm sure i can name a few people that i know who have coped with it pretty well, and it's their own fault for getting pregnant so young.
You're not getting rid of a baby, you're getting rid of an egg so it's not murder... if you stood on the seed of a plant would you class that as murder? It isn't fully developed and it doesn't become a baby until well after the abortion time limit is over. It's the woman's decision, if they don't want a baby and maybe want to go to university and do their A-levels... they're going to find looking after a kid 24/7 and studying pretty hard :rolleyes: Sometimes it isn't their fault for getting pregnant, condoms can split, the pill isn't 100% effective etc. If you have a long term boyfriend, a home and a good career and then you chose abortion, that's wrong. But if you're by yourself, with no job, young with no support I can see why they would chose aborition.

buttons
13-02-2009, 11:08 AM
You're not getting rid of a baby, you're getting rid of an egg so it's not murder... if you stood on the seed of a plant would you class that as murder? It isn't fully developed and it doesn't become a baby until well after the abortion time limit is over. It's the woman's decision, if they don't want a baby and maybe want to go to university and do their A-levels... they're going to find looking after a kid 24/7 and studying pretty hard :rolleyes: Sometimes it isn't their fault for getting pregnant, condoms can split, the pill isn't 100% effective etc. If you have a long term boyfriend, a home and a good career and then you chose to abort a baby, that's wrong. But if you're by yourself, with no job, young with no support I can see why they would chose aborition.
no that's what everyone says, i think when it's conceived it has as much right as anyone to live. Obviously it's the womans choice they should've thought bout it before they got pregnant, yes condoms split but they're 98% or so effective, the pills pretty good! you can get a pill after 24 hours so seamen in your body can be rid of straightaway (not sure if it's a pill), there's so many options to have this before waiting for an abortion. Young, jobless, alone people should be thinking about priorities such as getting further education, housing, a job etc before they're out having sex if they can't cope with it surely?!?!?

i think a baby is the best thing that can be given to you in life, some people can't even have babies and would do anything even for a disabled one

leah
13-02-2009, 11:13 AM
no that's what everyone says, i think when it's conceived it has as much right as anyone to live. Obviously it's the womans choice they should've thought bout it before they got pregnant, yes condoms split but they're 98% or so effective, the pills pretty good! you can get a pill after 24 hours so seamen in your body can be rid of straightaway (not sure if it's a pill), there's so many options to have this before waiting for an abortion. Young, jobless, alone people should be thinking about priorities such as getting further education, housing, a job etc before they're out having sex if they can't cope with it surely?!?!?

i think a baby is the best thing that can be given to you in life, some people can't even have babies and would do anything even for a disabled one

People in education are still young and most are jobless :S so they would probably want to get rid of it to continue with their career. I agree that they should take the morning after pill, but what if they don't realise or something until they miss a period and it's too late? In some circumstances abortion is the best option but in others it shouldn't even be an option. It all depends on the circumstances around the conception and if the 'mother to be' can cope.

RandomManJay
13-02-2009, 11:20 AM
yeh and if they just abort it? don't you think the mothers going to have some pain mentally? giving up a baby isn't easy but abortion is the easy and worse way out as i see it, what if that was their only chance to have a child? They will carry that burden around with them all the time and in most cases they probably regret doing it, as for being young with no support/job etc i'm sure i can name a few people that i know who have coped with it pretty well, and it's their own fault for getting pregnant so young.

yeah i know what you mean, just because your father was a rapist doesn't mean you have to abort the baby because it isn't the babies fault, it's not like it's going to turn out that way, and yeah maybe it's not gonna be with it's own father but it doesn't mean the baby doesn't deserve to live.

not really, you could experience other things aswell if you were born into a "normal family" like your father could do terrible stuff after you're born it's just the same as before, the baby isn't effected so why they should be killed cause of it?

i'm always going to think of abortion as murder no matter what anyone says and murder = illegal how i see it anyway

You raise some good points, but in many ways you've missed the perspective of what the childs life could be like if they were born. Often through inproper care from the parents through lack of income or simply not wanting the child, the child will suffer greatly and in many ways, never develop into an upstanding individual who can make it on their own in the world. No one wants to bring a life into the world which will not survive, its like torture for the life in question and for those who have to see them turn out that way. And yes, some people do cope, but many others don't, does the child deserve to live in such terrible circumstances and possibly die young, it isn't much of a life and although you could argue it is still a life, I would rather see a child not born than suffer for its simple act of living.

leah
13-02-2009, 12:52 PM
You raise some good points, but in many ways you've missed the perspective of what the childs life could be like if they were born. Often through inproper care from the parents through lack of income or simply not wanting the child, the child will suffer greatly and in many ways, never develop into an upstanding individual who can make it on their own in the world. No one wants to bring a life into the world which will not survive, its like torture for the life in question and for those who have to see them turn out that way. And yes, some people do cope, but many others don't, does the child deserve to live in such terrible circumstances and possibly die young, it isn't much of a life and although you could argue it is still a life, I would rather see a child not born than suffer for its simple act of living.
Exactly and in Psychology we were doing mother and baby attachments, If the mother doesn't want her baby she won't treat it right and it will feel unloved and have no attachment figure which can mentally and sometimes even physically damage the child as its growing up.

RandomManJay
13-02-2009, 01:29 PM
Exactly and in Psychology we were doing mother and baby attachments, If the mother doesn't want her baby she won't treat it right and it will feel unloved and have no attachment figure which can mentally and sometimes even physically damage the child as its growing up.

Along the right lines, the mother wont show enough attention or meaningful attention meaning that the child wont be able to form its first and most important attachment with its caregiver in its 'critical stage' and therefore be unable to create sustainable attachments due to the failure of the initial 'base' attachment which all other attachments stem from. This can cause rejection anxiety, mental illness like affectionless psychopathy, and can lead the child into crime and dysfunction in society.

I'm doing a psychology degree so I know quite a bit into attachment ;)

RedStratocas
13-02-2009, 04:19 PM
The child will feel **** when it understands it's father is a rapist and the mother didn't really plan to have a baby, he/she was forced upon her. I agree with you that they're still a normal child but the effect it could have on the child could be relatively bad.

pffft. hows that any better than a child being born and it knowing that neither of the parents wanted it? in my opinion that could have a pretty horrible effect on a child. at least with rape the child doesnt have to know the ******* of a father that caused it.

dont get me wrong, im still pro-choice, this is just the part of the opposition ive never understood. i'm not going to argue whether or not/when a fetus is technically a living thing, im not a scientist. i just want someone to explain to me what would be done with all of these unwanted kids. cause there's certainly not enough people willing to adopt now, let alone when there's thousands and thousands of more kids being born.


you can get a pill after 24 hours so seamen in your body can be rid of straightaway (not sure if it's a pill)

in all fairness, many people consider the morning after pill just as bad as abortion, because in essence it does the same thing: prevent a baby from being born.

clueless
13-02-2009, 05:00 PM
the whole rape thing, i think thats more about how it will effect the mother not the baby.
she will obviously be in a very low place as rape is damaging to the mind too so i doubt she will be in any fit state to raise a baby plus i know of a woman my mum works with who got raped and then get pregnant and had the baby and then got really low as whenever she saw the baby she couldnt connect with him and just saw the rapist and ended up really distressed by it.
i just dont think anyone should have to go through that especially after the rape ordeal in the first place

Richie
13-02-2009, 06:36 PM
Wrong.

Simply be more careful.

But then again jesus did make the condom split for a reason.

RedStratocas
13-02-2009, 07:39 PM
the whole rape thing, i think thats more about how it will effect the mother not the baby.
she will obviously be in a very low place as rape is damaging to the mind too so i doubt she will be in any fit state to raise a baby plus i know of a woman my mum works with who got raped and then get pregnant and had the baby and then got really low as whenever she saw the baby she couldnt connect with him and just saw the rapist and ended up really distressed by it.
i just dont think anyone should have to go through that especially after the rape ordeal in the first place

well sure its horrible for the mother, but the entire argument against abortion is based on it not being fair to the unborn baby. obviously rape is a horrible thing, but if you allow abortions in the case of rape, there are so many circumstances that we cant fathom ourselves that may be a legitimate reason to get an abortion as well. rape is seemingly a random circumstance where everyone says its okay.

in my opinion, if you're against abortion, the only reason you could ever allow it would be is if the mother is in danger, since if the mother dies the baby dies with it. but every other circumstance, it doesnt make sense. to me, you have to be against it in every circumstance or the argument doesnt make sense.


Wrong.

Simply be more careful.

But then again jesus did make the condom split for a reason.

yeah you guys, what if jesus were aborted? :[ i dont wanna be a jew.

Technologic
13-02-2009, 10:42 PM
I like to keep my abortions in a box under the bed.

RandomManJay
13-02-2009, 11:42 PM
I like to keep my abortions in a box under the bed.

:S thats disturbing, XD!

TAYLOOOOR1
14-02-2009, 01:09 AM
This is an issue which i think people will debate about how they feel towards the issue for life.

Different religions see it different ways.

personally i disagree with abortion however if the mother or child is in harm i think abortion is neccessary however if there isn't nothng wrong with the child or parent i think they could take adoption under consideration.

But over-all i disagree with abortion.

If the girl was raped i think abortion is neccessary too or obvious reasons.

Smarteh.
09-03-2009, 09:35 PM
We learnt this at school. There isnt a certain answer at the moment.
People can debate a baby being a LIFE
and people can debate on how hard it is to bring a baby up. They can also debate using their emotional status. Mothers that are pregnant because of accidents do not wish to be pregnant. Many of these accidents turn girls into single mothers and this can be hard for them too.

Want to hide these adverts? Register an account for free!