TPB Trial has ended... waiting for a verdict now.

[Recursion]

http://torrentfreak.com/the-pirate-bay-innocent-or-guilty-090303/

Mmm... IMO I reckon they will be found guilty... thoughts?

People just gotta hope they don't keep logs now!

[N!ck]

http://torrentfreak.com/the-pirate-bay-innocent-or-guilty-090303/

Mmm... IMO I reckon they will be found guilty... thoughts?

People just gotta hope they don't keep logs now!

Even if they lose TPB will still be around for a while. I doubt they have any logs either.

[HotelUser]

if they had to hand over logs a lot of people would be screwed:(.

[Agnostic Bear]

Who cares about TPB, they share low quality releases with no bandwidth ages after it's gone to topsites & usenet.

[The Professor]

If they were going as well as they did at the beginning the trial I reckon they won't be found guilty of much, if anything. If they are found guilty I think the whole BitTorrent network is screwed because they can just do that to every site and its dog until there's nothing left :(

[Recursion]

Who cares about TPB, they share low quality releases with no bandwidth ages after it's gone to topsites & usenet.

USENET *** (F) right der

[N!ck]

Who cares about TPB, they share low quality releases with no bandwidth ages after it's gone to topsites & usenet.

Well that's your opinion on them, and quality is a subjective any way. Please define "ages". While most content would be on usenet before BitTorrent, there is a small amount which ends up on BitTorrent first. Bandwidth, while extremely variable in comparrison to topsites/usenet can be extremely high especially when you involve private trackers and a group of peers who actually understand BitTorrent.

Even if you don't like TPB you should at least give them credit for what they stand for and the way they go about it?

Let's not forget that BitTorrent is free.

[HotelUser]

Who cares about TPB, they share low quality releases with no bandwidth ages after it's gone to topsites & usenet.

You should ask your pals in /g/ that and see what they say:).

[Robbie]

Well that's your opinion on them, and quality is a subjective any way. Please define "ages". While most content would be on usenet before BitTorrent, there is a small amount which ends up on BitTorrent first. Bandwidth, while extremely variable in comparrison to topsites/usenet can be extremely high especially when you involve private trackers and a group of peers who actually understand BitTorrent.

Even if you don't like TPB you should at least give them credit for what they stand for and the way they go about it?

Let's not forget that BitTorrent is free.

I personally think Usenet is so much better, especially with Astrawebs $11 offer :8. Mainly for the reason that it maxes out my connection no matter what and 'old content' still maxes out my connection, whereas people will have stopped seeding the same 'old content' on torrents.

In terms of the time it becomes available, it's slim to none the difference.

[scottish]

Did they get verdict back yet? :S o.0

[Chippiewill]

not for a while yet....

[Judge Judy]

april 17th is judgement day I think.

[scottish]

Ah k thanks. ^^

[Wootzeh]

They'll win, the proescutor made way too many mistakes. They had to drop half their charges, etc.

[Coldplay]

You should ask your pals in /g/ that and see what they say:).

Who the hell uses /g/? Anon is not foolish.

[Flisker]

Who the hell uses /g/? Anon is not foolish.
This has confused me... what the hell is /g/?!?

I think TPB will win as they are not hosting any content on their servers... It's on the computers of the seeders and downloaders.

[Barmi]

This has confused me... what the hell is /g/?!?

I think TPB will win as they are not hosting any content on their servers... It's on the computers of the seeders and downloaders.
You are probably used to /hc/ :rolleyes:
http://zip.4chan.org/g/imgboard.html

The outcome will be interesting.

[HotelUser]

This has confused me... what the hell is /g/?!?

I think TPB will win as they are not hosting any content on their servers... It's on the computers of the seeders and downloaders.

It's very good that you don't know what /g is actually. Because it's next to useless:P.

[Barmi]

It's very good that you don't know what /g is actually. Because it's next to useless:P.
I think that's just 4chan in general, unless you were to have a weird fetish. :eusa_thin

[Kyle!]

TPB won't lose, they haven't broken any laws they're linking to material not hosting it.

[Recursion]

"Assisting in the theft of copyrighted material" was the biggist issue, are they, or are they not?

[Ardemax]

"Assisting in the theft of copyrighted material" was the biggist issue, are they, or are they not?


I believe that's true.
And there's a few others.

Is it true they could just liquidate half of TPB?

[Recursion]

I believe that's true.
And there's a few others.

Is it true they could just liquidate half of TPB?

Well, the amount of servers etc.. they have.. probably could well do!

[Colin-Roberts]

They figure TPB tracks over 20% of torrents.. that a big hit for the users but i believe they will be found guilty of lesser charges.. they'll just move to another country anyways..

[RyanDOT]

If they get the logs, they only arrest the regular users who download alot from TPB, for me. I only download like 5 movies in one week, now i don't download from them..

[The Professor]

"Assisting in the theft of copyrighted material" was the biggist issue, are they, or are they not?

In the same way that road builders and car makers are assisting bank robbers :P

[Kevin]

I don't think anything will happen with the trial, as they are not hosting the files, they have too many disclaimers to get in big trouble.

They might get a small fine but I dont think anything will become of it.

[Barmi]

In the same way that road builders and car makers are assisting bank robbers :P
Your analogy fails because road builders and car manufacturers are not fulfilling their roles in order to assist banks being robbed. Here, the defendants are intentionally using their architecture to facilitate illegal activity. It may be a moot point as far as the Swedish case is concerned, but it's pertinent to killing your analogy.

I have not paid nearly enough interest in the case, or know sufficient Swedish law, to form an educated guess at the outcome. If they have an 'assisting' argument against them... wouldn't that be difficult to negative given that they are knowingly facilitating illegal activity?

I dare say nobody here is well versed in the intricacies of Swedish law, so 'they will' and 'the will not' cannot easily be bandied about. Predicting the 'likely' outcome is possible... but there is not a definitive here yet. Oh, and gut instinct tells me that Sweden is probably one of the more favourable countries (for the defendants) to be tried in.

@Kevin: the vast majority of the time, disclaimers on websites count for ****.

[no waiii]

i didnt read any posts cause too many but i read they got done for assesting copyright

[Recursion]

Well maybe you should read the posts next time? Thats the point in a forum :S

[Ardemax]

i didnt read any posts cause too many but i read they got done for assesting copyright

erm no

if you had read the trial verdict is out april 17th

[kk.]

and its assisting*

[Mr.Papparazzi]

They needa get hold of them logs! Doubt there still around though...

[Recursion]

Why do they need to? Thats bad? :S Also they don't keep logs, too many uses use TPB each day

[Stephen!]

I don't think they will get brought down. It doesn't affect me anyway.

[The Professor]

Your analogy fails because road builders and car manufacturers are not fulfilling their roles in order to assist banks being robbed. Here, the defendants are intentionally using their architecture to facilitate illegal activity. It may be a moot point as far as the Swedish case is concerned, but it's pertinent to killing your analogy.

I have not paid nearly enough interest in the case, or know sufficient Swedish law, to form an educated guess at the outcome. If they have an 'assisting' argument against them... wouldn't that be difficult to negative given that they are knowingly facilitating illegal activity?

I dare say nobody here is well versed in the intricacies of Swedish law, so 'they will' and 'the will not' cannot easily be bandied about. Predicting the 'likely' outcome is possible... but there is not a definitive here yet. Oh, and gut instinct tells me that Sweden is probably one of the more favourable countries (for the defendants) to be tried in.

@Kevin: the vast majority of the time, disclaimers on websites count for ****.

The pirate bay is simply a search engine. In the same way that road builders build roads for people to drive on, TPB hosts a service to help people find torrents. The fact that people decide to use the service for copyrighted material, in the same way that bank robbers use roads to get away from the bank quickly, isn't their fault, at least in principle. I'm not well versed in Swedish law either so in the context of the case I couldn't say whether simply hosting the service makes them accountable, but the analogy stands imo.

[Hitman]

The pirate bay is simply a search engine. In the same way that road builders build roads for people to drive on, TPB hosts a service to help people find torrents. The fact that people decide to use the service for copyrighted material, in the same way that bank robbers use roads to get away from the bank quickly, isn't their fault, at least in principle. I'm not well versed in Swedish law either so in the context of the case I couldn't say whether simply hosting the service makes them accountable, but the analogy stands imo.
I do see what you're saying, but what Barmi said is right... sure, TPB is simply a search engine but it's a search engine specifically and solely designed to search for torrents. It's not like Google. Now if you said Google helps find warez just like cars help robbers get away then that'd be a correct analogy because google isn't specifically and solely made to find warez, just like cars aren't specifically and solely made to help robbers get away.

[N!ck]

I do see what you're saying, but what Barmi said is right... sure, TPB is simply a search engine but it's a search engine specifically and solely designed to search for torrents. It's not like Google. Now if you said Google helps find warez just like cars help robbers get away then that'd be a correct analogy because google isn't specifically and solely made to find warez, just like cars aren't specifically and solely made to help robbers get away.

And TPB isn't solely there to search for torrents containing copyrighted material. BitTorrent distros etc. can be found on there.

[Hitman]

And TPB isn't solely there to search for torrents containing copyrighted material. BitTorrent distros etc. can be found on there.
Hmm true, however I'd say most people (who use it) download illegally. I do see what Alex is saying now, my bad. Although I didn't state illegally in my post... but the main purpose of TPB is to help people download illegal software/music, etc. If it wasn't and was solely there to provide people links to legal torrents then they'd take down illegal ones and there wouldn't be a court case and all of those emails etc.


I hope TPB wins though, the people talking them to court didn't really understand how torrents worked, thinking TPB hosted the files. :rolleyes:

[Recursion]

ThePirateBay xD

[Barmi]

The pirate bay is simply a search engine. In the same way that road builders build roads for people to drive on, TPB hosts a service to help people find torrents. The fact that people decide to use the service for copyrighted material, in the same way that bank robbers use roads to get away from the bank quickly, isn't their fault, at least in principle. I'm not well versed in Swedish law either so in the context of the case I couldn't say whether simply hosting the service makes them accountable, but the analogy stands imo.

And TPB isn't solely there to search for torrents containing copyrighted material. BitTorrent distros etc. can be found on there.
See what ***** has posted. They are intentionally supplying their architecture to facilitate illegal activity. It's difficult to argue otherwise. I don't have the time right now, but I'm more than prepared to argue my point. (Even if it is not directly relevant to the case, it's relevant to points in this thread.)

ThePirateBay xD

[HotelUser]

Google also indexes illegal downloads...

...someone should sue them:rolleyes:.

[Fehm]

Google also indexes illegal downloads...

...someone should sue them:rolleyes:.


Lol... Tbh, if google got sued it really wouldnt affect them, the amount they make :L

I kinda agree with the points of how they are intentionally displaying links to torrents and illegal downloads, therefore assisting in copyright theft, but.. i dunno i never really used the site :L

[Hitman]

Google also indexes illegal downloads...

...someone should sue them:rolleyes:.
True, but read my previous post. Google wasn't made to help promote (and index) illegal downloads, however TPB was, to put it simply.

[PoizZoNxX]

Theres many ways which it can be thought about what pirate bays aim is, saying they don't assist and say it's a search engine is one way but the real reason is to provide torrents, there isnt any other need for users to go on tpb and assisting to provide copyright material or whatever would be true in my eyes as thats what there doing but some crazy sweedish laws and all that bother

[Hitman]

Indeed, they are assisting, you can't really argue that they aren't; if they weren't then they would remove the illegal torrents from the search engine, but they take pride in not having removed any.

[Agnostic Bear]

I'm waiting for the day they go at it with a big usenet provider like Giganews and see what it's like to go at someone with as much if not more money than themselves.


Indeed, they are assisting, you can't really argue that they aren't; if they weren't then they would remove the illegal torrents from the search engine, but they take pride in not having removed any.

Torrents aren't illegal this is the entire point of their defence （　｀ー´）

[HotelUser]

True, but read my previous post. Google wasn't made to help promote (and index) illegal downloads, however TPB was, to put it simply.

Though from a legal point of view they're both doing the same thing whether they both intend to or not.

[Barmi]

Though from a legal point of view they're both doing the same thing whether they both intend to or not.
I thought you weren't versed in Swedish law? In England, I think you'll find intention does matter under our law of complicity. There is a huge difference between intending and not intending – usually the mens rea element of a crime is founded on this – so from 'a legal point of view', try not to lessen the significance of it. This may or may not be relevant to the case, but shows again that you are throwing comments out there without giving due thought.

@Jewish Bear: Knives are not illegal, but using them to stab someone is. In this country it is perfectly legal to sell a knife, but not if you can foresee (admittedly rare in this example) that the knife will be used to stab someone... else the law of complicity comes in. Torrents are likely to be the same, because the owners of TPB have made perfectly clear what their mental state as to the situation is. Only they are not in the UK.

[HotelUser]

I thought you weren't versed in Swedish law? In England, I think you'll find intention does matter under our law of complicity. There is a huge difference between intending and not intending – usually the mens rea element of a crime is founded on this – so from 'a legal point of view', try not to lessen the significance of it. This may or may not be relevant to the case, but shows again that you are throwing comments out there without giving due thought.


I'll admit I hardly know anything about Swedish law. But Google still knows they're indexing illegal content. They're allowing this content to be indexed, and they're allowing users to search for this content. In that sense it is to my opinion that TPB and Google are both guilty (or not guilty) of the same thing.

[Barmi]

I'll admit I hardly know anything about Swedish law. But Google still knows they're indexing illegal content. They're allowing this content to be indexed, and they're allowing users to search for this content. In that sense it is to my opinion that TPB and Google are both guilty (or not guilty) of the same thing.
Google are not reasonably expected to be able to monitor everything they index. Your analogy is unreasonable, flawed, and would bring in unnecessary liability to many aspects of the internet. There is a chief difference in that a) Google remove indexed content when requested by relevant bodies or notice themselves, and b) Google are not providing their service with the express knowledge that they are going to provide links to questionable sites. TPB go further than that: they intentionally supply their service to allow their users to download pirated material.

Your argument might be easier to accept if it was a less ubiquitously questionable torrent site in question... but it's The Pirate Bay we're talking about here, and they have clearly demonstrated their mental disposition towards the legality of their actions.

[HotelUser]

Google are not reasonably expected to be able to monitor everything they index. Your analogy is unreasonable, flawed, and would bring in unnecessary liability to many aspects of the internet. There is a chief difference in that a) Google remove indexed content when requested by relevant bodies or notice themselves, and b) Google are not providing their service with the express knowledge that they are going to provide links to questionable sites. TPB go further than that: they intentionally supply their service to allow their users to download pirated material.
Google indexes pages using crawlers. Robots that search content and index accordingly. It wouldn't be difficult at all to create filters to automatically block illegal content, yet they don't do that. Google's already been sued for association with illegal cracks with their relevant text feature: http://designtaxi.com/news.jsp?id=2691&monthview=1&month=5&year=2006

I'm not sure how legitimate this is, although it's interesting:

Kennedy was asked why they haven’t sued Google the same way as TPB. He said that Google said they would partner IFPI in fighting piracy and he has a team of 10 people working with Google every day, and if Google hadn’t announced they were a partner, IFPI would have sued them too.http://torrentfreak.com/the-pirate-bay-trial-day-8-090225/





Your argument might be easier to accept if it was a less ubiquitously questionable torrent site in question... but it's The Pirate Bay we're talking about here, and they have clearly demonstrated their mental disposition towards the legality of their actions.
Yes, it's quite obvious The Pirate bay has intentions of distributing illegal torrents, although my point about Google still stands. Both websites are giving us (the users) the freedom to get indexed anything we want.

[Ardemax]

TPB and Google have many differences.
One may be that 99% on TPB is illegal + Google does not intend to be.
Case closed.

[Hitman]

I'm waiting for the day they go at it with a big usenet provider like Giganews and see what it's like to go at someone with as much if not more money than themselves.



Torrents aren't illegal this is the entire point of their defence （　｀ー´）You can get innocent Linux distro torrents which aren't illegal, but torrents that provide copyrighted software that costs are illegal. I know the actual .torrent file doesn't contain the software, but it basically gives you it.

[no waiii]

Well maybe you should read the posts next time? Thats the point in a forum :S

sorry but **** you, i was right http://torrentfreak.com/pirate-bay-team-charged-080131/

Thinking you ms.knowitall xox

[HotelUser]

TPB and Google have many differences.
One may be that 99% on TPB is illegal + Google does not intend to be.
Case closed.

But they were going to sue Google if they hadn't done anything about it.
Now case closed.

[Recursion]

sorry but **** you, i was right http://torrentfreak.com/pirate-bay-team-charged-080131/

Thinking you ms.knowitall xox

Well if you had read the thread, like I told you to, you would have found out we had already established this. :rolleyes:

[no waiii]

Well if you had read the thread, like I told you to, you would have found out we had already established this. :rolleyes:

well i said in my post i didn;t read the post but i heard they got convicted yet you say im wrong????

make sene lovey xoxox

[Ardemax]

But they were going to sue Google if they hadn't done anything about it.
Now case closed.


Fair enough, but Google couldn't be sued for that reason.

[RichardKnox]

well i said in my post i didn;t read the post but i heard they got convicted yet you say im wrong????

make sene lovey xoxox

BEING CONVICTED IS COMPLETELY DIFFERENT TO BEING CHARGED.
I can be charged with robbery but not have gone to court yet, the POLICE convict you and at this point (at least in this country) you are still presumed innocent, thus non convicted, until THE CPS find you guilty of the crime you've been charged with.

I honestly think that TPB will be found guilty on a very nominal charge, probably due to pressure from America more than anything, and even then it won't be near enough to impact on TPB. The prosecutor has seriously buggered up though, and had to drop charges due to lack of evidence is pretty crazy. It wasn't even as if a not proven verdict (e.g. what we can get in Scotland, basically guilty but not enough evidence and thus no conviction) was given, just had to be dropped. I think TPB have got lucky by being up against a reasonably poor prosecution, and if it was one of the best lawyers they may not be so lucky? Of course there is still the chance they'll get a very harsh verdict, only time will tell though.

[no waiii]

BEING CONVICTED IS COMPLETELY DIFFERENT TO BEING CHARGED.
I can be charged with robbery but not have gone to court yet, the POLICE convict you and at this point (at least in this country) you are still presumed innocent, thus non convicted, until THE CPS find you guilty of the crime you've been charged with.

I honestly think that TPB will be found guilty on a very nominal charge, probably due to pressure from America more than anything, and even then it won't be near enough to impact on TPB. The prosecutor has seriously buggered up though, and had to drop charges due to lack of evidence is pretty crazy. It wasn't even as if a not proven verdict (e.g. what we can get in Scotland, basically guilty but not enough evidence and thus no conviction) was given, just had to be dropped. I think TPB have got lucky by being up against a reasonably poor prosecution, and if it was one of the best lawyers they may not be so lucky? Of course there is still the chance they'll get a very harsh verdict, only time will tell though.

sorry for not being a member of skotland yard and knowing all that info.

[Recursion]

sorry for not being a member of skotland yard and knowing all that info.

Scotland. Get it right LOL

[RichardKnox]

sorry for not being a member of skotland yard and knowing all that info.

Pretty sure it's common knowledge?

[no waiii]

Pretty sure it's common knowledge?

for da police ya, for mebers of the ***** mabey not

[RichardKnox]

for da police ya, for mebers of the ***** mabey not

I'm not in the police, I'm a member of the public :P

[no waiii]

I'm in the police, and also a member of the public :P

that why duhhhhhhh


Scotland. Get it right LOL


yez sir skotlan all de way

also why did my ***** get stars lol

[HotelUser]

Fair enough, but Google couldn't be sued for that reason.
Bhttp://torrentfreak.com/the-pirate-bay-trial-day-8-090225/


that why duhhhhhhh




yez sir skotlan all de way

also why did my ***** get stars lol

You're not really adding anything at all to the discussion:rolleyes:.

[no waiii]

But they were going to sue Google as well as TPB. If you read up a few posts there's some links about it.



You're not really adding anything at all to the discussion:rolleyes:.


[ ] << carebox its empty :(

[HotelUser]

[ ] << carebox its empty :(

It doesn't really matter to me whether you care or not. Just pointing out you're not adding to the discussion:D.

[Agnostic Bear]

[ ] << carebox its empty :(

that is not your care box that is mine.

i found yours:

[ http://imgbear.com/crap/ren.jpg ]

Also they probably will be found guilty because of the EU LOVING to pressure.

[no waiii]

that is not your care box that is mine.

i found yours:

[ http://imgbear.com/crap/ren.jpg ]

Also they probably will be found guilty because of the EU LOVING to pressure.

:(:(:(:(:(:(


Edited by ,Jess, (Forum Super Moderator): Please do not make pointless posts.

[DaveTaylor]

*Removed*


Edited by ,Jess, (Forum Super Moderator): Please do not be rude.

[no waiii]

*Removed*

no need to be rude david, i never insulted you

[Niall!]

Who cares if they get done, there's so many other torrent sites out there which they'll never care about.

I will continue to pirate, as I need to to watch anime and for my ds games and to get everything I want for free. Stupid government trying to get me to actually PAY for things.

[Ardemax]

Who cares if they get done, there's so many other torrent sites out there which they'll never care about.

I will continue to pirate, as I need to to watch anime and for my ds games and to get everything I want for free. Stupid government trying to get me to actually PAY for things.


I really hope you're being sarcastic

[Niall!]

I really hope you're being sarcastic

No, why would I be?

I'm not paying for something I can get for free! LOL

[scottish]

Can't be bothered reading through thread, but has there been a verdict yet?

[Recursion]

Short: No.

[Ardemax]

No, why would I be?

I'm not paying for something I can get for free! LOL


oh fair enough