Telecom Packages to change Europe?

[Niall!]

This is pretty scary, I know for a fact it's not a hoax as it's been discussed extensively on French news, but now it seems it's to become EU standard.

http://blackouteurope.eu/

Basically what it is saying is that you will only have certain sites you will be able to look at and must pay for extra sites etc.

I honestly don't think this is legal, since many small business's will go under due to lack of advertising. As for me, I use a wide range of sites and none of them are popular whatsoever.

[efq]

Yeah I just saw this, it is scary.

You can't say because of little business's its not legal, the battle for P2P is going to far and with the piratebay stuff they have all rights to do this to prevent it. But I doubt the UK will go with it.

The trick is if you want to be able to visit a website, you need to ask your provide to include it in your package. So if you wanted to go to piratebay you'd need to ask your ISP to allow Piratebay.org and well of course they wont.

To let you know this is serious and details have been released for anyone wanting to call there Member of the European Parliament can find a list here.
http://www.laquadrature.net/wiki/MEPs_ITRE_am138

[Fez]

It'd be embarrassing asking for porn sites in your package...

Also, I don't believe any bit about this. If it happens, then I'm off to Japan - internet is free there.

[Niall!]

Looks like UK is voting it in as all there MEPs are for it.

[efq]

The UK European Members of Parliament are FOR.

Total 79 Members of the European Parliament are FOR.
9 Members of the European Parliament are AGAINST.
6 Members of the European Parliament are ABSTENTION.

NOTE THIS IS ONLY THE 1ST READING

It all back tracks, The EU People will go crazy with it then making the parliament not do it. But then Music Artists, Software developers, Microsoft products etc can say we will no longer make software because people are downloading it for free.
So its a hard decision to make.

[Fez]

The UK European Members of Parliament are FOR.

Total 79 Members of the European Parliament are FOR.
9 Members of the European Parliament are AGAINST.
6 Members of the European Parliament are ABSTENTION.

NOTE THIS IS ONLY THE 1ST READING

It all back tracks, The EU People will go crazy with it then making the parliament not do it. But then Music Artists, Software developers, Microsoft products etc can say we will no longer make software because people are downloading it for free.
So its a hard decision to make.
Piracy shouldn't be a crime. People are simply downloading most of these things because they are not widely available or too expensive. A good example of this is Left4Dead, which is reported to be one of the most pirated things on launch day - but when it dropped to a price of £15, sales shot up over 3000% and Valve had happy days.

It's not anyone's fault BUT the music companies, software developers and everything else putting up the price too high in a recession. At the end of the day a company has to make profit, but it's not gonna make any profit at all in these recession times. Thus, they must either find a cheaper way of manufacturing or lower the price until they still gain sustainable profit. It's the only way of dealing with piracy directly.

[efq]

Piracy shouldn't be a crime. People are simply downloading most of these things because they are not widely available or too expensive. A good example of this is Left4Dead, which is reported to be one of the most pirated things on launch day - but when it dropped to a price of £15, sales shot up over 3000% and Valve had happy days.

It's not anyone's fault BUT the music companies, software developers and everything else putting up the price too high in a recession. At the end of the day a company has to make profit, but it's not gonna make any profit at all in these recession times. Thus, they must either find a cheaper way of manufacturing or lower the price until they still gain sustainable profit. It's the only way of dealing with piracy directly.
But if you can't afford it, you don't have it.

If you want something in a shop, you don't shop lift everytime? Thats the same as pirating. (Although I pirate all the time lol)

[Fez]

But if you can't afford it, you don't have it.

If you want something in a shop, you don't shop lift everytime? Thats the same as pirating. (Although I pirate all the time lol)

Well that's the thing isn't it. Things need to be put at a respectable price, not one which will guarantee the most profit for even small businesses selling the products. But if these places put products at a lower cost, but still having profit coming back to them, then we would have a lot less piracy.

Well shoplifting is , imo, a bigger crime than piracy. It is basically theft and piracy is just about the same thing except with a cooler name.

[efq]

Well that's the thing isn't it. Things need to be put at a respectable price, not one which will guarantee the most profit for even small businesses selling the products. But if these places put products at a lower cost, but still having profit coming back to them, then we would have a lot less piracy.

Well shoplifting is , imo, a bigger crime than piracy. It is basically theft and piracy is just about the same thing except with a cooler name.
Yeah piracy is brill still, I couldn't live without it!

[Fez]

What the entertainment industry needs is a system that actually prevents piracy. Just about DVD can be ripped, and even then you just play it in your home and record the actual TV with a Dazzle or actual camcorder.

[CJW93]

Sorry but I don't undertand what is going in :S

Someone care to give a simple explanation?

[efq]

Sorry but I don't undertand what is going in :S

Someone care to give a simple explanation?
They are trying to restrict what websites we can visit.

[Niall!]

Your argument about piracy amuses me.

I pirate anime mostly, because it's not readily available to buy where I live (not that I would buy it anyway), so really they're going to kill off my hobby aswell.

[Ardemax]

This is pretty scary, I know for a fact it's not a hoax as it's been discussed extensively on French news, but now it seems it's to become EU standard.

http://blackouteurope.eu/

Basically what it is saying is that you will only have certain sites you will be able to look at and must pay for extra sites etc.

I honestly don't think this is legal, since many small business's will go under due to lack of advertising. As for me, I use a wide range of sites and none of them are popular whatsoever.


I posted about this ages ago lol :P
People said it was lying though.

[-:Undertaker:-]

Oh that is fantastic, I was having a debate over the European Union just a couple of days ago, supporters of the EU claim it is not infringing on our sovereignty, but now look at these latest measures. Apparently our MEP's and MP's stick up for us and let our voice be heard in the European Parliaments, but your results just show what a total cowardly lot they are, signing away our rights and sovereignty whenever the EU requests.

A command economy, under the European Flag - that is where we are heading; against our wish.

[Caution]

I wasn't aware this could happen and I don't think it will, things like this always come up.

[Technologic]

Oh that is fantastic, I was having a debate over the European Union just a couple of days ago, supporters of the EU claim it is not infringing on our sovereignty, but now look at these latest measures. Apparently our MEP's and MP's stick up for us and let our voice be heard in the European Parliaments, but your results just show what a total cowardly lot they are, signing away our rights and sovereignty whenever the EU requests.

A command economy, under the European Flag - that is where we are heading; against our wish.

Thank God the Tories will be in power by next year. I wouldn't be surprised if there was a move from the EU to EFTA under them.

[Niall!]

I wasn't aware this could happen and I don't think it will, things like this always come up.

It can happen, but hopefully not, I'll be rioting in the streets if it does.

[Skajo]

It CANNOT and WILL NOT happen. End.

[-:Undertaker:-]

The EU can usher anything it wants in through the EU parliament, and if it fails it will attempt it again and again, just like it will do on the Lisbon Treaty with the Republic of Ireland.

[Fez]

Honestly, if this thing comes into our country I am getting the hell out of here. The internet is probably the greatest tool of communication available and we have a right to it with our powerful democracy. Taking away our rights to look at certain sites ,unless we pay for them, is against our own government and way of life.

[Technologic]

Honestly, if this thing comes into our country I am getting the hell out of here. The internet is probably the greatest tool of communication available and we have a right to it with our powerful democracy. Taking away our rights to look at certain sites ,unless we pay for them, is against our own government and way of life.
Welcome to Ingsoc New Labour, bra. Thought Police will be knocking on your door soon enough.

[-:Undertaker:-]

Honestly, if this thing comes into our country I am getting the hell out of here. The internet is probably the greatest tool of communication available and we have a right to it with our powerful democracy. Taking away our rights to look at certain sites ,unless we pay for them, is against our own government and way of life.

I do hope the Conservatives eventually see sense with the European Union, but then again the thing that brought down Thatcher when she turned her attention to the EU was her own party. I just hope, in the mean time, for our sakes we can replace the sitting ducks in the EU parliament with people who will stand up for British interets (UKIP) - I look forward to the day the EU falls apart, hopefully in my life time.

[Fez]

Welcome to Ingsoc New Labour, bra. Thought Police will be knocking on your door soon enough.

Ey waht?

[Technologic]

Ey waht?



Lrn2NineteenEighty-Four

[Fez]

I haven't read that yet, sorry :D

[Technologic]

Jacqui Smith has. She seems to get her ideas from it.

[xxMATTGxx]

Welcome to Ingsoc New Labour, bra. Thought Police will be knocking on your door soon enough.

Reminds me of the Nazi party... LOL. I hope this will never happen, if it does then expect many protests in the country :P

[no waiii]

The EU can usher anything it wants in through the EU parliament, and if it fails it will attempt it again and again, just like it will do on the Lisbon Treaty with the Republic of Ireland.

people in ireland said they will still vote no, and they dont want the goverment to make them have another referdum

[Ardemax]

I do hope the Conservatives eventually see sense with the European Union, but then again the thing that brought down Thatcher when she turned her attention to the EU was her own party. I just hope, in the mean time, for our sakes we can replace the sitting ducks in the EU parliament with people who will stand up for British interets (UKIP) - I look forward to the day the EU falls apart, hopefully in my life time.


sorry but ukip will not win the election anytime soon
their goals would wreck most of britain with 5 forzen years for immigration, and much more weirder targets
the idea of EU is to disagree with things like this and if we do our bit, this will never happen

[Skajo]

The EU can usher anything it wants in through the EU parliament, and if it fails it will attempt it again and again, just like it will do on the Lisbon Treaty with the Republic of Ireland.
As Detol likes to say - it won't happen. Fact.

It's against free will, unless of course you're on a government ISP then they can do what the hell they want. However, as far as I am aware, there is no government ISP.

Trust me, it CANNOT happen. :).

[-:Undertaker:-]

people in ireland said they will still vote no, and they dont want the goverment to make them have another referdum

According to a part of Wikipedia on the Lisbon Treaty, a new referendum would see the YES vote win this time.


sorry but ukip will not win the election anytime soon
their goals would wreck most of britain with 5 forzen years for immigration, and much more weirder targets
the idea of EU is to disagree with things like this and if we do our bit, this will never happen

Who said they would win, I said a party in the future will get in and rid us of the EU. Five years of frozen immigration is just what we need so what are you talking about there? - they are basically the Conservative Party without the eurocrats within.


As Detol likes to say - it won't happen. Fact.

It's against free will, unless of course you're on a government ISP then they can do what the hell they want. However, as far as I am aware, there is no government ISP.

Trust me, it CANNOT happen. :).



On 12 December 2008 the Taoiseach (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taoiseach), Brian Cowen (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brian_Cowen) confirmed that a second referendum (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twenty-eighth_Amendment_of_the_Constitution_of_Ireland_Bi ll,_2009) would be held, after an EU leaders summit agreed to keep one Commissioner per member state and to incorporate legally binding guarantees on abortion, taxation and military neutrality in the Croatian Accession Treaty. [104] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Lisbon#cite_note-103)[105] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Lisbon#cite_note-104)[106] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Lisbon#cite_note-105) An opinion poll in February 2009[update] (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Treaty_of_Lisbon&action=edit) suggested that 58% of people would support a Yes vote, against 25% supporting No.


According to this a new referendum will be held, or the EU will give Ireland exceptions and then Ireland will vote YES. As shown there, a new referendum according to that poll (and bear in mind the previous referendum was very close) the EU will manage to get this treaty through. Trust me, they will not stop until they ram it through.

[alexxxxx]

According to this a new referendum will be held, or the EU will give Ireland exceptions and then Ireland will vote YES. As shown there, a new referendum according to that poll (and bear in mind the previous referendum was very close) the EU will manage to get this treaty through. Trust me, they will not stop until they ram it through.

It's called negotiation. One of Ireland's worries was that they were losing some of their say, so they fought this and got it back.

[-:Undertaker:-]

It's called negotiation. One of Ireland's worries was that they were losing some of their say, so they fought this and got it back.

Do you think if Ireland didn't have to constitiuonally hold a referendum the EU would give the Irish people exceptions based on their opinion? - I don't think so.

If the EU wants negotiation then bring it on, and the first place to start if giving the people of Europe a referendum on the EU itself. Of course it will never happen, because we all know the EU would cease to exist overnight if it gave people an option on itself.

[alexxxxx]

Do you think if Ireland didn't have to constitiuonally hold a referendum the EU would give the Irish people exceptions based on their opinion? - I don't think so.

If the EU wants negotiation then bring it on, and the first place to start if giving the people of Europe a referendum on the EU itself. Of course it will never happen, because we all know the EU would cease to exist overnight if it gave people an option on itself.

you make it sound like the EU is above other countries, like we are owned by them. whilst infact it is ourselves who installed ourselves into the european union or failed to pull ourselves out if we didn't like like the way it was heading.

you can't blame the EU itself for not giving people a refferendum, you need to blame the PEOPLE for not voting in a party taht would pull themselves out. It's called a democracy... which isn't the same as a referedum on everything.

Voting UKIP in a european election won't pull us out of Europe, nor will voting the BNP, infact all it does is hurt the UK's voice in strasbourg, by not adressing the people's needs in europe-wide issues, whilst we're still in it. I'd call that a waste of our taxpayers money.

[-:Undertaker:-]

you make it sound like the EU is above other countries, like we are owned by them. whilst infact it is ourselves who installed ourselves into the european union or failed to pull ourselves out if we didn't like like the way it was heading.

you can't blame the EU itself for not giving people a refferendum, you need to blame the PEOPLE for not voting in a party taht would pull themselves out. It's called a democracy... which isn't the same as a referedum on everything.

Voting UKIP in a european election won't pull us out of Europe, nor will voting the BNP, infact all it does is hurt the UK's voice in strasbourg, by not adressing the people's needs in europe-wide issues, whilst we're still in it. I'd call that a waste of our taxpayers money.

Indeed the issue is with home governments aswell, who are often just as bad as those in the European Union. I fully agree there and that is why i'm leaning more and more onto partys such as UKIP as everytime the EU is mentioned in the Conservative Party, it decends into meltdown and backstabs its leader.

Again, the governments of europes fault aswell. However with such a large part of our laws and regulations coming from the European Union, a referendum is nessacery, and the only reason we are not given one is because the EU would cease to exist.

Voting UKIP will help the United Kingdoms voice in the European Parliament, in which the Independance/Democracy Group gains more and more power in the EU parliament which is the ultimate aim. Once the European Parliament is secured by UKIP the next stage would of course be Westminister and eventually replacing the Liberal Democrats as the third main party. UKIP often bloc vote with Indepenance/Democracy Group which gives them more of a say as that group is made of many eurosceptics. As the European Parliament Elections are PR elections, it means peoples votes will count so i'd encourage anyone to go and vote if you are of age.

There's a difference in working together, and being together.

[alexxxxx]

Indeed the issue is with home governments aswell, who are often just as bad as those in the European Union. I fully agree there and that is why i'm leaning more and more onto partys such as UKIP as everytime the EU is mentioned in the Conservative Party, it decends into meltdown and backstabs its leader.

Again, the governments of europes fault aswell. However with such a large part of our laws and regulations coming from the European Union, a referendum is nessacery, and the only reason we are not given one is because the EU would cease to exist.

Voting UKIP will help the United Kingdoms voice in the European Parliament, in which the Independance/Democracy Group gains more and more power in the EU parliament which is the ultimate aim. Once the European Parliament is secured by UKIP the next stage would of course be Westminister and eventually replacing the Liberal Democrats as the third main party. UKIP often bloc vote with Indepenance/Democracy Group which gives them more of a say as that group is made of many eurosceptics. As the European Parliament Elections are PR elections, it means peoples votes will count so i'd encourage anyone to go and vote if you are of age.

There's a difference in working together, and being together.

You must admit that the EU Parliament has a 'better' way of expressing people's voices than the 2-party FPTP method. You could say that they do what they are voted in for, to do nothing because of the voters' dispisal of the EU. But I don't honestly think UKIP will make any grounds, but the ultra-nationalist BNP will do, because they promise the world to every 'white british' person there is. They are wanting to get votes so they can join and form a nationalist bloc with FORZA ITALIA and FRONT NATIONALE of France, which would actually mean they get funding from the EU.

I should be 18 for the next general election, if it takes place next year. I don't know who would be on ballot here, but it won't matter how I vote cause Kenneth Clarke (?) is my MP and has been for years and years and years.

[-:Undertaker:-]

You must admit that the EU Parliament has a 'better' way of expressing people's voices than the 2-party FPTP method. You could say that they do what they are voted in for, to do nothing because of the voters' dispisal of the EU. But I don't honestly think UKIP will make any grounds, but the ultra-nationalist BNP will do, because they promise the world to every 'white british' person there is. They are wanting to get votes so they can join and form a nationalist bloc with FORZA ITALIA and FRONT NATIONALE of France, which would actually mean they get funding from the EU.

I should be 18 for the next general election, if it takes place next year. I don't know who would be on ballot here, but it won't matter how I vote cause Kenneth Clarke (?) is my MP and has been for years and years and years.

Indeed, thats why I believe westminister should convert to PR instead of FPTP, it will eventually happen I believe when a hung parliament occurs because it is one of the Liberal Democrats biggest aims and they will seize the oppertunity when it arises. This may all be the case but the fact still remains that the EU is not wanted and any law concerning the United Kingdom should be made in Westminister and not Brussels.

UKIP and BNP are going head to head in these elections and Nigel Farages political career depends on it, if the BNP gains and UKIP makes a loss then it draws into serious question the future of UKIP. If UKIP makes strong gains like last time, then the party is growing very fast as expected and I think I might sign up for membership. I don't want the BNP to get seats in the EU parliament as I see it as lost votes for UKIP.

Ken Clarke, I like him. However its the same in my city of Liverpool, we're mostly Liberal Democrat with Labour narrowly not in control of the council, only because a local independant MP defected to the Liberal Democrats to give them overall control (thank god). When I come to vote I will probably have to vote Liberal Democrat if this country stays FPTP, if we ever convert to PR then my vote will go to the Conservatives or UKIP.