AF447 Plane Accident

[xxMATTGxx]

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/45857000/jpg/_45857979_007425966-1.jpg


Brazilian aircraft searching for an Air France jet which went missing with 228 people aboard in an Atlantic storm have spotted debris on the ocean.

Some oil, a plane seat and other items were sighted 650km (400 miles) north-east of Brazil's Fernando de Noronha island, the Brazilian air force said.

The find can only be confirmed once the items are retrieved and the first boat is not due to arrive until Wednesday.

The jet was heading from Brazil to Paris when it vanished early on Monday.

Yes this was like yesterday but due to forum being down. Such a shame and sad accident. :(

[sock]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/8076848.stm


An Air France plane carrying 228 people from Brazil to France has vanished over the Atlantic after flying into turbulence, airline officials say.

Update: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/8079122.stm

sad news.. r.i.p

[xxMATTGxx]

If no survivors are found, the crash of AF flight 447 will be the world's worst aviation disaster since the Nov. 2001 plane crash in NYC.


AP: 3 commercial ships close to the Atlantic debris site have been told to help with the search as the Navy will take more hours to arrive.


At approximately 0530 Brazilian time a C130 military aircraft spotted some debris in two locations approximately 60km apart from each other


"The search is continuing because it's very little material in relation to the size [of the Airbus A330]."

From what I got on twitter.

[sock]

very sad..

[efq]

Things happen, R.I.P though. I am excited to see the air crash investigation of this in a few years (Not because they died but why nothing was said by the pilots about a serious problem).

[BeanEgg]

RIP.

Sad to hear. :(

Weren't some North-West African countries involved in the search such as morocco? or was that an area where it could of been?

[Metric1]

that almost makes me not want to fly.

[xxMATTGxx]

RIP.

Sad to hear. :(

Weren't some North-West African countries involved in the search such as morocco? or was that an area where it could of been?

From what I know it was Brazil, France and Spain? Not sure though. I know USA was helping via satellites.

[omgDAN!]

It said on the news that France were asking the US if their spy satellites could find anything, as it was such a big area to search.

[Sammeth.]

"If no survivors are found, the crash of AF flight 447 will be the world's worst aviation disaster since the Nov. 2001 plane crash in NYC"

Not by a long shot, I thought there were only 228 passengers on the plane? Still very sad of course, and its such a shame. Not the way to go at all :(

[xxMATTGxx]

"If no survivors are found, the crash of AF flight 447 will be the world's worst aviation disaster since the Nov. 2001 plane crash in NYC"

Not by a long shot, I thought there were only 228 passengers on the plane? Still very sad of course, and its such a shame. Not the way to go at all :(

Nov 2001 was American Airlines Flight 587? Which indeed is more passengers/more people killed. So I'm not so sure.

[Josh1540]

Nov 2001 was American Airlines Flight 587? Which indeed is more passengers/more people killed. So I'm not so sure.

Aye, Airbus A300-6.
Thoughts are with all affected by this accident.

As for recovering the FDR and CVR, if trackable, it will be very expensive to do so.

Also, to the poster about Air Crash Investigation. If ACI does cover this particular accident and the CVR is found, then cockpit dialogue could be used for the re-enactment. To be honest, I'm still waiting for ACI to cover the 777 crash landing at Heathrow last January, the US Airways ditching this January and the Colgan Air Buffalo accident a few months back (and the reports for all of those crashes haven't even been completed yet), so I may be waiting for a few good years still.

[Sammeth.]

Nov 2001 was American Airlines Flight 587? Which indeed is more passengers/more people killed. So I'm not so sure.

No I meant it definitely isn't the worlds worst aviation disaster AFTER Nov 2001, there have been so many more disasters with more than 228 fatalities.

[Josh1540]

No I meant it definitely isn't the worlds worst aviation disaster AFTER Nov 2001, there have been so many more disasters with more than 228 fatalities.

Matt is right. The last accident involving more than 228 fatalities was in November 2001 involving an American Airlines Airbus A300-600. The total fatality count was 265 (260 souls on board and 5 on ground).

If you mean before November 2001, then that would either be September 11th (involving all aircraft and ground fatalities) or the Tenerife collision.

[Sammeth.]

Oh I interpreted it differently, I took it to mean it was 2nd to Sept 11th not literally after the date. My bad.

[xxMATTGxx]

Matt is right. The last accident involving more than 228 fatalities was in November 2001 involving an American Airlines Airbus A300-600. The total fatality count was 265 (260 souls on board and 5 on ground).

If you mean before November 2001, then that would either be September 11th (involving all aircraft and ground fatalities) or the Tenerife collision.

Thanks, I was reading everything after that date on wikipedia and couldn't find anything which was more xD. :)


Update; Brazil Defense minister says wreckage spotted in the Atlantic appears to be from the missing Air France flight.

[lick]

Thats sad and like why did they not sent out a mayday or whatever its called or is there nothing on planes that helps people locate hem

RIP to those people! :(

[xxMATTGxx]

Thats sad and like why did they not sent out a mayday or whatever its called or is there nothing on planes that helps people locate hem

RIP to those people! :(

Maydays are the last resort really, unless they can get help from the ground. The pilots of flight AF 447 were most likely too focused on figuring out what the hell went wrong or it could of just been in a matter of seconds and they didn't realise what was coming. Pilots normally mayday if they have time, say if it was an engine failure. Its normally pretty simple task to deal with and they will have to let ATC know so they can divert to the nearest airport if needed.

[Geraint]

If it's a double engine failure a plane can glide for about 30 minutes, if I'm right, so surely the pilot would have had time. Don't know why the thought of lightning because planes are designed to be hit by lighting. Could have just had a complete and utter systems failure and gone straight down into the Atlantic.

[xxMATTGxx]

If it's a double engine failure a plane can glide for about 30 minutes, if I'm right, so surely the pilot would have had time. Don't know why the thought of lightning because planes are designed to be hit by lighting. Could have just had a complete and utter systems failure and gone straight down into the Atlantic.

First of, don't assume on what has happened to the flight. No one knows for sure what the hell happened. They do know a number of faults occurred about 14 minutes after last contact with ATC. This is because Air France and most other airlines will have a system that sends a message to the Maintenance base that a fault has a occurred so they know what needs fixing/replacing or whatever.


the Airbus A330 sent ten maintenance messages reporting problems with the jet, including failure of several electrical components and pressurization problems.

[GommeInc]

This is quite shocking, when I first heard it didn't sound too bad. The BBC or some expert mentioned that the plane had enough gliding time to probably come safely into the water - which made me wonder why a RyanAir flight pretty much dropped vertically when it's engines cut out, but that's another story. It would be interesting to know what happened, not in a sick way though :P

[Josh1540]

Thanks, I was reading everything after that date on wikipedia and couldn't find anything which was more xD. :)

Haha yeah, I did that a few nights ago too. I'm actually surprised it has been nearly a decade since a large loss of life really.


Thats sad and like why did they not sent out a mayday or whatever its called or is there nothing on planes that helps people locate hem

RIP to those people! :(

Crews usually declare an emergency by repeating mayday three times (well that is the standard procedure but some crews just state mayday once because they have the emergency to concentrate on - most notably the US Airways flight which ditched successfully into the River Hudson). However, how do we know the crew had time to declare an emergency? Maybe they were caught off guard? Maybe the plane disintegrated leaving them no chance to declare an emergency? Perhaps the flight was hijacked and thus the crew were unable to communicate with ATC in fear of being murdered?

Who knows? The fact is, we don't know yet and we probably won't know for a long time.

Gliding time is based on a number of factors too and a gliding ratio is usually available in the SOPs.

[Geraint]

First of, don't assume on what has happened to the flight. No one knows for sure what the hell happened. They do know a number of faults occurred about 14 minutes after last contact with ATC. This is because Air France and most other airlines will have a system that sends a message to the Maintenance base that a fault has a occurred so they know what needs fixing/replacing or whatever.

Why the hell can't I assume. Everyone is. :rolleyes:

[xxMATTGxx]

If it's a double engine failure a plane can glide for about 30 minutes, if I'm right, so surely the pilot would have had time. Don't know why the thought of lightning because planes are designed to be hit by lighting. Could have just had a complete and utter systems failure and gone straight down into the Atlantic.

I also forgot to mention the following. Yes planes are designed to fly in storms with ease and planes can be hit by lighting strikes all the time and it doesn't end up going off radar or crashing. Although, this seems to of been a very bad storm of some kind which could mean the lightning may of been a lot more stronger or just unusual or whatever at the time. Which caused the flight AF 447 to have problems on board. Fires on aircraft is a no no, so if a fire has happened, then there's one of the big clues. Although, once they found the black boxes. That's when the real answers come out.



Why the hell can't I assume. Everyone is.

I wasn't aiming it at you, I'm just saying it :P. Sorry about that.

[Geraint]

how are divers meant to find black boxes in the middle of the atlantic anyway?

[Sammeth.]

They have locator beacons :8

[xxMATTGxx]

how are divers meant to find black boxes in the middle of the atlantic anyway?

Black boxes are designed to send out a signal, homing beacon if you want to call it that once they hit water. It does this for so many days, I forgot the number. It is a very hard job, since the size of that ocean is HUGE. They will have to get specialised equipment in to try and help them. They may even have to call in a mini-submarine to go and get them. All depends, I hope to god they are able to find them and get them without any problems.

[lick]

how are divers meant to find black boxes in the middle of the atlantic anyway?

i was watching something and it said they give of a signal fr 30days or somthing.

correct me if i am wrong

[xxMATTGxx]

i was watching something and it said they give of a signal fr 30days or somthing.

correct me if i am wrong

Yeah that number rings a bell in my head. Its about 30 days. :)

[Josh1540]

Yeah, I don't know really. There's been a hell of a lot of speculation and not many answers. I'm hopeful the investigators will find the answers soon enough, just a matter of time and money really.

I think some sources have said that the ocean depth can reach 14000ft, so if that's how far the FDR and CVR have sunk to, then it will be a difficult recovery. The South African Airways 747 which went down a couple of decades ago over in the Indian Ocean was within waters as deep as 16000ft.

[xxMATTGxx]

Yeah, I don't know really. There's been a hell of a lot of speculation and not many answers. I'm hopeful the investigators will find the answers soon enough, just a matter of time and money really.

I think some sources have said that the ocean depth can reach 14000ft, so if that's how far the FDR and CVR have sunk to, then it will be a difficult recovery. The South African Airways 747 which went down a couple of decades ago over in the Indian Ocean was within waters as deep as 16000ft.

Yeah, we don't have much news at the moment. Hopefully tomorrow as thats when most of the ships are expected to arrive at the area.

"Earlier, Brazil's air force said it had spotted an airplane seat, an orange buoy and signs of fuel in waters with depths of up to 4,800 metres. "

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/45858000/gif/_45858989_plane_crash_weather2_466.gif

[Geraint]

I know they send out a signal but retrieving them is something else.

[Sammeth.]

The "Pourquoi Pas" ("Why Not") will join the hunt currently being carried out by French and Brazilian air force jets hundreds of kilometres off the Brazilian coast, the ecology ministry said in a statement.

The mini-subs it carries can work at depths of up to 6 000m. The ocean area where the plane disappeared has maximum depths of 4 700m, French naval experts said.

That's handy.

[Yoshimitsui]

The main issue with the Airbus fleet with it all being flyby wire it just killed everything with the electrical short circuit and amongst the black of night and no landmarks the pilots lost all sense of orientation and they spiraled themselves towards the ocean without proper reference to horizon and so the actions they thought they where inputting where not those of what they thought.

[xxMATTGxx]

That's handy.

The USA Navy have got black boxes from around 10,000 I think.


The main issue with the Airbus fleet with it all being flyby wire it just killed everything with the electrical short circuit and amongst the black of night and no landmarks the pilots lost all sense of orientation and they spiraled themselves towards the ocean without proper reference to horizon and so the actions they thought they where inputting where not those of what they thought.

Yeah, it does come to a question if Airbus "fly-by wire" is good enough for the future.


In a recently released article, an aviation safety consultant said that the wreckage was spread over a couple miles in a rough line, which can indicate the plane came down in several pieces. According to this safety consultant, past wreckages where an aicraft has come down in one piece usually ends up in a circle like pattern. Of course with weather and ocean current pieces get scattered. However he emphasizes the fact that "The big thing to understand right now is we don't know".

[xxMATTGxx]

With far more questions than answers, everything falls into the category of speculation, though the accident - without definitive clues has the potential to reopen long standing debates about fly-by-wire controls, airliner lightning strike protection, ADIRUs and ETOPS even after millions of hours of safe in-service operation of these technologies.

Thank god by the time in like 2013, there will be a new system into place. So they can track aircraft via satellites.


This is for anyone who's interested in what the future is to bring;


he Next Generation Air Transport System, or Next Gen as it's known, will see the implementation of satellite based aircraft tracking with the GPS, called Automatic Dependent Surveillance - Broadcast ( ADS-B). ADS-B technology transmits the location of the aircraft to within a few hundred feet of accuracy to both ground stations and other aircraft, rather than the 1-2 miles of accuracy with traditional radar.

The FAA plans to roll out Next Gen and ADS-B over almost a decade or longer, with airlines and industry groups pushing regulatory agencies to both move up deadlines for aircraft equipage and provide additional financial incentives to outfit aircraft. The ground-based portion of the system is expected to be deployed by 2013, but aircraft outfitting timelines remain an open question.

All thanks to flightblogger.

[Frank459]

The black boxes can be retrieved by a deep sea excavator, but the main concern is to get the excavator transported there and also locating the exact frequency and location of the boxes.

In the report, it said that the Brazillians found traces of kerosene and oil in the ocean. If there was an explosion, wouldnt all of the kerosene have been burnt up and turned into water and carbon whatever?

Also, the fact that the plane emitted automated signals containing information that the plane had lost cabin pressure - I think at this time there was a blow out from the aircraft in which the debris (in this case the seat they found) was ripped from the aircraft along with it just suddenly dropping from the sky.


Thats my assumption anyway. Just gotta hope they find the boxes before their beacons stop working.

[xxMATTGxx]

The black boxes can be retrieved by a deep sea excavator, but the main concern is to get the excavator transported there and also locating the exact frequency and location of the boxes.

In the report, it said that the Brazillians found traces of kerosene and oil in the ocean. If there was an explosion, wouldnt all of the kerosene have been burnt up and turned into water and carbon whatever?

Also, the fact that the plane emitted automated signals containing information that the plane had lost cabin pressure - I think at this time there was a blow out from the aircraft in which the debris (in this case the seat they found) was ripped from the aircraft along with it just suddenly dropping from the sky.


Thats my assumption anyway. Just gotta hope they find the boxes before their beacons stop working.


Jet fuel can burn for days and it depends on what has happened. The way I see it, I think it blew up in mid-air. But no one can be sure at the moment. It also depends on how it broke up, the A330 even has some fuel in the tail. Plus looking cabin pressure at 35,000ft is bad. If they could, the pilots would try and get it down to about 10,000 where the air is breathable.


Thats my assumption anyway. Just gotta hope they find the boxes before their beacons stop working.

They got about 30 days, so it should be all ok. The first navy ships should be also there doing, so we can actually get a confirmation it is the Air France plane and see if they find anything else.

[Mathew]

Could have been me flying home a day earlier on Sunday morning.. :O

[Lee]

Cant wait to watch the Air Crash Investigation to this in a few years

Same, but they might not make one... RIP.

[Sad3k..]

From what I know it was Brazil, France and Spain? Not sure though. I know USA was helping via satellites.

Well from what i hered it ws USA via satelities Brazil, Spain was checking over their radar space and saw nothing!
France are sening 2 submrines 2 try get bodies nd the black box, and Senegal have sent shipsownd by france to help search

Huge problem is that if there waves head into one direction things may land on beaches along west Afria or amoonmgst the Carribean islands/South America

[lick]

Could have been me flying home a day earlier on Sunday morning.. :O

But you was flying home from flordia and not with air france and no-were near brizal...

[xxMATTGxx]

Lost jet data 'may not be found'


French aviation officials have said they may never find the flight data recorders of an Air France jet that went missing over the Atlantic.




Well from what i hered it ws USA via satelities Brazil, Spain was checking over their radar space and saw nothing!
France are sening 2 submrines 2 try get bodies nd the black box, and Senegal have sent shipsownd by france to help search

Huge problem is that if there waves head into one direction things may land on beaches along west Afria or amoonmgst the Carribean islands/South America

Maybe but I been told it takes many months for things to float across the other side of the Atlantic. :(

[Josh1540]

A BOMB threat was called in on an Air France flight from Brazil to Paris just days before the airliner lost a jet over the Atlantic ocean. The threat was made on May 27 and forced Bueno Aires airport officials to delay the French carrier's flight. The Air France jet was inspected but cleared for take off.

This is from The Sun, so be cautious.

Terrorism hasn't been ruled out but no terrorist organisation has claimed responsibility yet, which is rather unusual considering terrorists are usually quick with confessing.

[xxMATTGxx]

This is from The Sun, so be cautious.

Terrorism hasn't been ruled out but no terrorist organisation has claimed responsibility yet, which is rather unusual considering terrorists are usually quick with confessing.

Indeed. Normally someone will say they did it, but like you said no one has that we know of.

[xxMATTGxx]

Information on the messages they got:


The last contact with the aircraft was at 02:14 UTC,[3] four hours after take-off, when its avionics automatically transmitted several messages via ACARS indicating multiple systems failures.[10] The first of these messages, at 2:10 UTC, reportedly indicated that the autopilot had disengaged and the fly-by-wire computers had switched to an alternate program used in the event of multiple system failures. Next, the aircraft transmitted several messages indicating failures of the Air Data Inertial Reference Unit, the Integrated Standby Instrument System (a backup system providing basic flight instruments), and two of the three flight control computers.[citation needed] The final message received, at 02:14 UTC, indicated a possible cabin depressurization at location [show location on an interactive map] 3°34′40″N 30°22′28″W / 3.5777°N 30.3744°W / 3.5777; -30.3744.[11][12][13]


Plus:


"It is not only deep, it is also mountainous," he said. "We might find ourselves blocked at some point by the lack of material elements."


Also today, ABC News has confirmed that Air France received a bomb threat over the phone concerning a flight from Buenos Aires, Argentina, to Paris days before Air France flight 447 disappeared over the Atlantic Ocean Sunday night.

[Josh1540]

The question is - if a bomb did explode, it must have only been fairly small - just enough power to cause a rupture/hole in the fuselage, which could have severed some important wiring and obviously led to depressurization. This would have also caused the ACARS to report the messages about autopilot disengagement and cabin depressurization. If the bomb caused the entire aircraft to break up during the explosion, then the ACARS wouldn't have sent the messages as it would have been destroyed?

Air France have also published some more details about the crew and passengers:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090603/ap_on_re_la_am_ca/brazil_plane_list

The captain was Marc Dubois (58 years old - joined Air France in 1988 - 11,000 flying hours with 1,700 on the A330), first officer Pierre-Cedric Bonin (32 years old) and first officer David Robert (37 years old). Both first officers had over 9,000 flying hours between them.

On PPrune.org, there is some discussion on resting periods for the crew. The captain may have been relieved by the relief pilot a few hours into the flight, but some believe the first officer was relieved, leaving the captain and the relief first officer on the flight deck during the accident.

[Frank459]

They wouldnt be sending submarines unless they were equipped with stuff to grab the actual data recorders. These sort of operations are used by deep sea excavators. Ive seen it on an Air Crash Investigations episode.

Also, the beacons will need to be identified as to the frequency they emit. The first naval ships were to have arrived today to start the recovery operation around the debris area they have identified. Regular boats near the crash site were called in until naval ships were to arrive.

[xxMATTGxx]

Air France jet debris recovered



Brazilian navy ships have begun recovering debris from an Air France jet lost over the Atlantic this week, a Brazilian air force official has said.

Brig Ramon Borges Cardoso said the debris will be taken to France, which is leading the investigation into the crash, AFP news agency reported.

Searches have located debris but no flight data recorders or bodies.

In Paris, relatives of passengers have been told that there is no hope of survivors being found.

Air France chief executive Pierre-Henri Gourgeon and chairman Jean-Cyril Spinetta briefed the relatives in a hotel near Paris Charles de Gaulle airport where they have been waiting for news.

Mr Gourgeon said the jet, which was carrying 228 people from Rio de Janeiro to Paris, broke apart either in the air or when it hit the sea.


"What is clear is that there was no landing," said a support group representative who was at the meeting, Guillaume Denoix de Saint-Marc. "There's no chance the escape slides came out."

Two Brazilian navy vessels have been combing the area, about 1,100km (690 miles) north-east of Brazil's coast.

Three more Brazilian boats and a French ship equipped with small submarines are expected to arrive in the area in the next few days.


'Clock ticking'

French military spokesman Christophe Prazuck said the priority was looking for wreckage from the plane, before turning the search to flight data recorders.

"The clock is ticking on finding debris before they spread out and before they sink or disappear," he said.

French officials have also said the recorders, which could be deep under water, may never be found.

Officials have warned that they are far from working out the cause of the crash.


http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/8083474.stm

[Frank459]

News on what is believed to have happened:


The hunt for clues as to the fate of an Air France jet lost in an Atlantic storm has intensified with the arrival of the first Brazilian navy vessel.

French aviation officials say they may never find the jet's flight data recorders, which could be under waters 3,700m (12,100ft) deep.

Aerial searches have not reported bodies but Brazil's air force has seen more, and larger, debris.

The jet was carrying 228 people from Rio to Paris when it was lost.

See a map of the plane's route

Wreckage seen from the air was spread over a 5km area and included a metallic object 7m in diameter and an oil slick stretching over 20km (13 miles).

Brazilian Defence Minister Nelson Jobim said the presence of oil slicks could eventually rule out the possibility of a fire or explosion on the plane, Reuters news agency reports.

Meanwhile, an unconfirmed report in a Brazilian newspaper has detailed what it says is the final series of critical failures in the systems on board the Airbus 330.

'Fuselage or tail'

France's minister responsible for transportation, Jean-Louis Borloo, warned that "black boxes" had never been recovered at such depths.

"The sea currents are powerful that far down," he said.

Paul Louis Arslanian, head of France's air accident investigation agency, said: "We cannot rule out that we will not find the flight recorders."

While the flight recorders were designed to send homing signals for up to 30 days after hitting water, there was no guarantee they even survived the impact, he added.

Cascade of messages

According to the report in Brazil's Estado de Sao Paulo newspaper, citing an unidentified Air France source, the doomed airliner's pilot first sent a message that he was entering thick black clouds of a type normally associated with violent winds and lightning.

Ten minutes later a series of electronic messages were sent from the plane indicating that the autopilot had disengaged and that a computer on board had switched to an alternative power system.

The controls needed to keep the aircraft stable had also been damaged, the newspaper report says, and an alarm sounded, suggesting the situation was becoming increasingly grave.

This cascade of messages ended with one pointing to a loss of air pressure and electrical failure.

The French authorities who are leading the investigation into the causes of the crash declined to comment.

A US aviation safety expert, Bill Voss of the Flight Safety Foundation, said the Brazilian newspaper account strongly suggested the plane had broken apart in the air without explaining why.

"This is the documentation of the seconds when control was lost and the aircraft started to break up in air," he told the Associated Press.

It is clear, our correspondent says, that the only definitive explanation will come with the recovery of as much debris as possible and, crucially, the flight data recorders.

Click here for the full article (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/8082241.stm)

Looks like theres a VERY slight possibility of retrieving the black boxes at that sort of depth. Shame really..

[jackass]

To anyone that watches Lost...

It's a bit weird that, not only did a plane go missing, like on lost, but if you add up the numbers... 4 + 4 = 8 and 4 + 4 + 7 = 15 which is 815. The plane that crashed on lost was Oceanic flight 815. Haha, weird. :(

But yeah, RIP to everyone that was on that plane.

[xxMATTGxx]

Looks like theres a VERY slight possibility of retrieving the black boxes at that sort of depth. Shame really..

They will have to try there best. Even if it takes months and years. Even if its just some wreckage that shows some damage or whatever, they really do need to find out what happened to a 4 year old aircraft. They also need to rule out terrorism/aircraft fault and anything else. :)

Ps. Yes I know about the weather conditions, but you never know. It could of been something else.


Here is more information about the bomb threat 4 days before the flight.


Air France received a bomb threat four days before Flight 447 plunged into the Atlantic Ocean, it was revealed yesterday.

An anonymous caller made the threat to a plane heading from South America to Paris - just like the doomed jet.

And the theory that Flight AF 447 could have been downed by a bomb was reinforced last night as it emerged wreckage from the Air France jet has been found spread over 55 miles of the Atlantic.

Following the phone threat, Flight 415 was grounded in Buenos Aires as sniffer dogs made a full search - but no explosives were found and the Boeing 777 was allowed to leave the Argentine capital.

[Frank459]

Well even so, transporting a deep sea excavator to the supposed site of the black boxes (when they locate the pinger) it would take at least 4 hours to reach the sea bed and also possibly a day or so to locate the pinger, including the deep sea currents.

[xxMATTGxx]

Well even so, transporting a deep sea excavator to the supposed site of the black boxes (when they locate the pinger) it would take at least 4 hours to reach the sea bed and also possibly a day or so to locate the pinger, including the deep sea currents.

Right and? I seem to be missing your point here. I know its going to take sometime, they might not even find the black boxes. We just have to hope they can.




Details have emerged of the moments leading up to the disappearance of flight AF 447 with 228 people on-board, with error messages reportedly suggesting the plane was flying too slowly and that two key computers malfunctioned.

[Sammeth.]

Right and? I seem to be missing your point here. I know its going to take sometime, they might not even find the black boxes. We just have to hope they can.

Jeez soon you're gonna be like Undertaker is with politics. "Do you know anything about plane crashes?!?! DO YOU!?!?!? DO YOU :@:@:@:@".

[xxMATTGxx]

Jeez soon you're gonna be like Undertaker is with politics. "Do you know anything about plane crashes?!?! DO YOU!?!?!? DO YOU :@:@:@:@".

Oh no I didn't mean it like that. I just kinda missed his point :(.


http://www.weathergraphics.com/tim/af447/af447-0215-zoom.jpg

[Sammeth.]

Oh no I didn't mean it like that. I just kinda missed his point :(.

You know Im such a tease. ;)

[Frank459]

Meh, well everyone has their opinions.

[xxMATTGxx]

BIG UPDATE


Debris 'not from Air France jet'

Debris recovered from the Atlantic by Brazilian search teams does not come from a lost Air France jet, a Brazilian air force official has said.


Brig Ramon Borges Cardoso contradicted earlier reports that debris had been found, saying "no material from the plane has been recovered".

A wooden cargo pallet was taken from the sea, but the Airbus A330 had no wooden pallets on board.

Relatives have been told that there is no hope of survivors being found.

Air France chief executive Pierre-Henri Gourgeon and chairman Jean-Cyril Spinetta briefed the passengers' relatives in a hotel near Paris Charles de Gaulle airport where they have been waiting for news.

Mr Gourgeon said the jet, which was carrying 228 people from Rio de Janeiro to Paris, broke apart either in the air or when it hit the sea.



Oil slick

Brazilian navy vessels have been combing the area, about 1,100km (690 miles) north-east of Brazil's coast.

Three more Brazilian boats and a French ship equipped with small submarines are expected to arrive in the area in the next few days.

Brig Cardoso said that fuel found in the sea probably did come from the plane, because it was not of a type used in ships.

However he said a large oil slick photographed in the area was more likely to have come from a ship.

He said the search effort would continue, with the main focus on finding bodies, but bad weather is forecast for the region on Friday

[lick]

Yeah just heard that the stuff they found was from a sunken ship.

[GommeInc]

So the ship is now reported as non-existent (to some degree)? That's... interesting. So where was this ping coming from?!

[eight]

They think it was a bomb :S

[xxMATTGxx]

So the ship is now reported as non-existent (to some degree)? That's... interesting. So where was this ping coming from?!

I not heard any news of them finding a "ping". The items were found by aircraft searching the sea for any sign of the aircraft.


They think it was a bomb :S

That's because Air France received a bomb threat 4 days before the flight.

[xxMATTGxx]

Airbus warns pilots on jet speed


Plane maker Airbus has reissued emergency guidelines to pilots after experts said a missing Air France jet may have had false speed measurements.

French air accident investigators said automatic messages broadcast by the jet in its final moments showed the plane's systems were giving different readings.

Spokesman Justin Dubon said that the inconsistent readings meant that "the air speed of the aircraft was unclear".

He said that in such circumstances, flight crews should maintain thrust and pitch and - if necessary - level off the plane and start troubleshooting procedures as detailed in operating manuals.



Meteorologists say that the Air France Flight 447 had entered an unusual storm with 100mph (160km/h) updrafts that sucked water up from the ocean.

As the moisture reached the plane's high altitude it quickly froze in -40C temperatures. The updrafts would also have created dangerous turbulence, they say.

[GommeInc]

I not heard any news of them finding a "ping". The items were found by aircraft searching the sea for any sign of the aircraft
Ahh I see. I guess the job now is to fly closer to Africa, if anything?

[xxMATTGxx]

Ahh I see. I guess the job now is to fly closer to Africa, if anything?

It's a very confusing really. It's one big ocean and the plane could be anywhere. It will be under the sea (most of it). But thins eventually float. They will probably do that tbh. The American's are also helping in the investigation which includes the National Transportation Safety Board, GE, FAA and Honeywell.

[GommeInc]

It seems like the only idea, to follow the area in which it would of flown over to get to Paris hoping it took that route and of course have some lee-way(sp?) to predict where it might of crashed if the worst had come to worst. It must be incredibly irritating for the family and friends involved though, not knowing anything like everyone else :(

[xxMATTGxx]

It seems like the only idea, to follow the area in which it would of flown over to get to Paris hoping it took that route and of course have some lee-way(sp?) to predict where it might of crashed if the worst had come to worst. It must be incredibly irritating for the family and friends involved though, not knowing anything like everyone else :(

Yeah, I feel sorry for the families. As no one has found out answers or why its crashed or anything. Even worse that they not found anything. I do hope they find some evidence and lots more. Time will tell :(

[Yoshimitsui]

It seems like the only idea, to follow the area in which it would of flown over to get to Paris hoping it took that route and of course have some lee-way(sp?) to predict where it might of crashed if the worst had come to worst. It must be incredibly irritating for the family and friends involved though, not knowing anything like everyone else :(

The problem with that is reports have been made to suggest the aircraft was off course or did end up off course.

[xxMATTGxx]

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/45874000/jpg/_45874995_sna_emeraude_226x190.jpg


A French nuclear submarine is being sent to help find an Air France jet which disappeared over the Atlantic.

French defence minister Herve Morin said the hunter-killer submarine had surveillance equipment that could help find the plane's flight data recorders.



Navy ships are reported to be scouring the ocean, about 1,100km (690 miles) north-east of Brazil's coast, in an effort to locate other debris spotted from the air on Tuesday and Wednesday.





Research ship

A French marine research ship equipped with two non-nuclear mini-submarines is already on its way to the area.

Three more Brazilian boats and a French ship equipped with small submarines are expected to arrive in the area in the next few days.

French military spokesman Christophe Prazuck said the priority was looking for wreckage from the plane before it sinks or disappears.

[xxMATTGxx]

Air France memo to pilots says it's replacing air-speed-sensing instruments in Airbus jets


An Air France memo to its pilots Friday about the crash of Flight 447 said the airline is replacing instruments that help measure airspeed on all its medium- and long-haul Airbus jets.

Investigators have focused on incorrect speed readings as one potential factor in the crash.

With Brazil and France disagreeing about whether pieces of the jet have even been found in the Atlantic, investigators are using the last messages sent by the plane to determine the cause and try to avoid future disasters.

Air France declined to comment on the memo obtained by The Associated Press, saying it was for pilots only.

[xxMATTGxx]

The Air France jet which went missing over the Atlantic sent 24 error messages before it is believed to have crashed, French investigators say.

The messages came as the plane's systems broke down one by one, said Alain Bouillard, head of France's aviation accident investigation bureau.

French weather experts said there was no evidence the plane, carrying 228 people, hit an "exceptional" storm.

The Airbus A330 vanished en-route from Rio de Janeiro to Paris on Monday.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/8086860.stm

Interesting...

[xxMATTGxx]

France24: Investigators said the AF 447 sent 24 messages in less than five minutes before it disappeared. A bomb cannot be ruled out.

In less than 5 minutes, bloody hell!

[lick]

It's the Bermuda Triangle!

[xxMATTGxx]

Air force officials say they have found bodies and debris from Air France flight 447 which crashed in the Atlantic.

Brazilian air force officials say that a ship has found two bodies and debris from the Air France jet which crashed in the Atlantic.

DEBRIS FOUND IN THE ATLANTIC INCLUDES BLUE CHAIR AND LEATHER BRIEFCASE CONTAINING AIR FRANCE TICKET.


Bodies and debris have been found from the Air France plane which went missing over the Atlantic last Monday, the Brazilian air force has said.

The remains were taken from the water at 0814 Brazilian time (1114 GMT), said spokesman Jorge Amaral.

Experts on human remains are on their way to examine the find.

All 228 passengers and crew on board AF 447 are believed to have been killed when the plane disappeared during its flight from Rio de Janeiro to Paris.

"We confirm the recovery from the water debris and bodies from the Air France plane," Col Amaral said at a news conference in the northern city of Recife.

"We can't give more information without confirming what we have."

Updated news.




He later added that two male bodies had been found, as well as objects linked to passengers known to be on the flight, including a suitcase with a plane ticket.

A seat was also found, but there has been no confirmation that it was from the flight.

The remains were picked up some 640 km (400 miles) northeast of the islands of Fernando de Noronha, off Brazil's northern coast.

Correspondents say that much of the search effort so far has been focused on finding flight data recorders, which have sonar beacons - or "pingers" - attached to them.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/8087303.stm

[lick]

Updated news.




http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/8087303.stm

I wonder if it is true this time. :P

[xxMATTGxx]

I wonder if it is true this time. :P

The other one was true. It just wasn't items from the AFR flight. However when you find bodies and a suitcase/briefcase with an "Air France ticket" inside. It starts ringing bells.

[Immenseman]

Brazilian search crews have found bodies and debris from the Air France flight that crashed into the Atlantic, an air force spokesman has said. Skip related content (http://uk.news.yahoo.com/4/20090606/twl-bodies-found-from-air-france-crash-41f21e0.html#ynw-article-part2)
Related photos / videos


http://d.yimg.com/i/ng/ne/itn/20090606/11/233579185-crash-jet-s-autopilot-wasn-t-working.jpg#300,225 Crash jet's autopilot wasn't working Play video (http://uk.news.yahoo.com/4/20090606/video/vwl-crash-jet-s-autopilot-wasn-t-working-15af341.html)


http://d.yimg.com/i/ng/ne/itn/20090606/11/233579185-crash-jet-s-autopilot-wasn-t-working.jpg#300,225Crash jet's autopilot wasn't working Play video (http://uk.news.yahoo.com/4/20090606/video/vwl-crash-jet-s-autopilot-wasn-t-working-15af341.html)
http://d.yimg.com/i/ng/ne/itn/20090606/16/2543373744-bodies-found-air-france-crash.jpg#300,225Bodies found from Air France crash



Related content




Video: Crash jet's autopilot wasn't working (http://uk.news.yahoo.com/4/20090606/video/vwl-crash-jet-s-autopilot-wasn-t-working-15af341.html)





Spokesman Jorge Amaral said that the first bodies from the crash were found early on Saturday morning.
Mr Amaral said: "This morning at 8:14am, we confirmed the rescue from the water of pieces and bodies that belonged to the Air France flight."
Among the debris retrieved was a seat with a serial number that matched the missing flight, a rucksack, and a case with an Air France ticket inside, rescue officials said.
Brazil's air force has been scouring a swathe of the Atlantic about 680 miles northeast of Brazil's coast since Monday's crash, which killed all 228 people on board.
Several Brazilian navy ships have also arrived in the area, but fears have grown that many bodies sank.
It was the the world's deadliest air disaster since 2001 and the worst in Air France's 75-year history.
Meanwhile, investigators have said that the autopilot on the flight was not working.
Those on board included five Britons, 12 crewmembers, a baby and seven children.
Pre-crash signals from Flight 447, which went down en route from Rio de Janeiro to Paris last Sunday, showed the autopilot was not working, French investigators said.
Paul-Louis Arslanian, the head of the French agency leading the crash investigation, said it was not clear if the pilots switched it off or it stopped working because it received conflicting airspeed readings.
Plane manufacturer Airbus said the probe found the flight received inconsistent readings from different instruments as it struggled in a massive thunderstorm.
Meteorologists said the Air France jet entered an unusual storm with 100mph updrafts that acted as a vacuum, sucking water up from the ocean.
The moist air rushed up to the plane's high altitude, where it quickly froze in minus-40 degree temperatures. The updrafts also would have created dangerous turbulence.
Investigators are still searching a zone of several hundred square miles for debris from the crash, after earlier reports that wreckage had been found in the Atlantic were found to be wrong.

[xxMATTGxx]

Bit of more info on the recorders:


Flight recorders

The items were the first to be definitely linked to the plane, nearly six days after the crash.


Some debris thought to be from the plane was spotted earlier in the week, but items recovered proved not to be linked to it.

Correspondents say that much of the search effort so far has been focused on finding flight data recorders, which have sonar beacons - or "pingers" - attached to them.

But French officials say there was no guarantee the beacons were still attached to the flight recorders, and they may have been separated in the impact of the crash.

The officials do not know what triggered the plane's problems, but it was flying through an area of thunder storms and turbulence.

They said it sent 24 error messages minutes before it crashed.

On Friday, French Defence Minister Herve Morin said a French submarine was being sent to join in the search since it had sonar equipment that could help locate the airliner's flight data recorders.

The US is also sending specialised listening equipment.

[BeanEgg]

Bit of more info on the recorders:

Apparently the sonar beacons only work for 30 days after. Hopefully they'll find them before.

[Geraint]

In less than 5 minutes, bloody hell!

Especially when they had that bomb scare 4 days before in Buenos Aires.

[xxMATTGxx]

(CNN) -- At least 12 airplanes shared the trans-Atlantic sky with doomed Air France Flight 447, but none reported any problems, deepening the mystery surrounding the cause of the plane's disappearance.

Airlines confirmed that at least a dozen aircraft departed roughly at the same time and traversed approximately the same route, but did not report problematic weather conditions. This has led some aviation experts to suggest that technical problems on the airplane might be the main cause of the crash, though they may have combined with weather conditions to create serious problems.

Interesting... Maybe it wasn't the weather after all. Technical fault on the aircraft could of brought AF447 down.

[Dan!]

Interesting... Maybe it wasn't the weather after all. Technical fault on the aircraft could of brought AF447 down.

this might explain all the Error messages getting sent VIA ACARS to OPS. i was reading somewhere that they are blaming the Auto Pilot At Moment.

[xxMATTGxx]

Investigators' warning


Investigators say that sensors on board the missing Airbus 330 were providing "inconsistent data" in the minutes before it went missing.

On Saturday, Air France said that in May 2008 it had begun noticing "incidents of loss of airspeed information during cruise flight" on its A330s and A340s jets - although only a "small number" of incidents had been reported.

The airline said it then contacted Airbus, who sent a recommendation to replace the monitors.

However, Air France stressed that the manufacturers had not made this a safety requirement.

The statement said that "without prejudging a link with the causes of the accident, Air France has accelerated this [replacement]programme".

It added that this did not necessarily mean the aircraft was not safe to fly.

French investigators also warned against drawing early conclusions.

[Sammeth.]

I'm sure the weather still played a part. I mean even if it was a technical fault and they were trying to recover from it, I'm sure bad weather wasn't exactly in their favour.

[Dan!]

I'm sure the weather still played a part. I mean even if it was a technical fault and they were trying to recover from it, I'm sure bad weather wasn't exactly in their favour.

Weather is well known for being "rubbish around them parts" Pilots get used to it but at such and early stage it not worth jumping the gun.


From CNN about 5mins ago;


Three more bodies found in search for Air France crash victims off coast of Brazil, officials say.

[xxMATTGxx]

Weather is well known for being "rubbish around them parts" Pilots get used to it but at such and early stage it not worth jumping the gun.


From CNN about 5mins ago;

More info regarding that:


Three more bodies have been recovered from the Atlantic Ocean near where the Air France flight is thought to have crashed last week, Brazil's navy says.

That raises the total to five, after two bodies were found on Saturday.

Officials say other bodies have also been spotted in the area and ships are being sent to recover them.

They were found some 800km (500 miles) north-east of Brazil's Fernando de Noronha islands where the AF Flight 447 disappeared in turbulent weather.

Also on Saturday, the Brazilian navy recovered the first confirmed debris from the plane, including a briefcase containing a ticket for Flight 447.

Other found debris thought to be linked to the flight included a blue seat and a backpack containing a computer.

The remains were found not far from where the last signal from the plane was received on Monday.

They were taken to the islands of Fernando de Noronha, where they were to be examined by experts.

[PaulMacC]

Have they found the radio boxes yet or did the rule out the chance of getting them

[Dan!]

Have they found the radio boxes yet or did the rule out the chance of getting them

no nothing on the blackbox yet, they wont no if they can use any of it intill they have a look at it.

[Rock]

RIP Air France Flight 447

[xxMATTGxx]

Sky News: French helicopter recovers sixth body from the Atlantic near Air France crash site.

GloboNews: More bodies sighted in the Atlantic near Air France crash site; to be recovered throughout the day.

[xxMATTGxx]

Photo has been released:

Brazilian air force releases photo of plane wreckage showing Air France logo:
http://s3.amazonaws.com/twitpic/photos/large/11513352.jpg?AWSAccessKeyId=0ZRYP5X5F6FSMBCCSE82&Expires=1244407887&Signature=dCR8P7x3BvA%2BNIv6jmAsRWq8YDU%3D

http://i40.tinypic.com/2ij6s7.jpg

http://web4.twitpic.com/img/11513398-376ccc70e77036d6ac8dd7378efb80f3.4a2c25ee-scaled.jpg

[xxMATTGxx]

Brazilian officials say they have recovered 11 more bodies from the Atlantic where an Air France plane crashed last week.

[xxMATTGxx]

More Bodies:


More bodies have been recovered from the Atlantic in the area where a French jet disappeared last week, bringing the total number to 17, officials say.

Dozens of pieces of debris from the Air France plane were also picked up by Brazilian and French ships.

They were found some 1,000km (600 miles) north-east of Brazil's Fernando de Noronha islands where the Airbus disappeared with 228 people.

Meanwhile, the investigation is looking into faulty speed sensors on the plane.

Brazilian and French ships recovered 15 bodies on Sunday - six days after the crash. Two bodies had been retrieved on Saturday.

Brazilian officials say four of the bodies are of men and four are of women. There is no word on the others.

[le harry]

Atleast things are starting to turn up now. I'd like to hear what the black box recording was.

[xxMATTGxx]

New Photos:

http://i44.tinypic.com/2s7asnp.jpg

http://i42.tinypic.com/24v375w.jpg

[xxMATTGxx]

The cause of flight AF447's destruction over the Atlantic last week remains a mystery. But of all the possibilities, the one the aviation industry is arguably most worried about is failure of the plane's carbon-fibre tailfins, rudder or flaps.

If these parts weren't able to cope with the stresses caused by fierce weather conditions off the coast of Brazil, the industry may be forced to rethink its grand plan to replace metal aircraft with those made from lightweight composite materials.

Aircraft manufacturers have gradually been introducing parts made from carbon-fibre reinforced plastic (CFRP) over the past two decades. In a few weeks the first aircraft with a pressurised CFRP fuselage, the Boeing 787, will make its maiden flight. The second, the Airbus A350, will follow in 2012.

The move to CFRP is the biggest shift in aircraft design since the introduction of all-aluminium pressurised aircraft in the 1950s. It is much lighter than metal, so planes can carry more passengers with the same amount of fuel, cutting fuel bills and carbon footprints. But questions have been raised about its safety.


There is more and if anyones intrested in this type of stuff then the link is below :].

http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn17270-opinion-what-the-aerospace-industry-hope-didnt-cause-the-af447-crash.html

[xxMATTGxx]

Update kinda:

Air France pilots union threatening to strike if A330 sensors aren't replaced.

[Lee]

Don't blame them to be honest, they shouldn't be putting lives in danger.

[LogicDepths]

Things happen, R.I.P though. I am excited to see the air crash investigation of this in a few years (Not because they died but why nothing was said by the pilots about a serious problem).

Exactly the same here.

[xxMATTGxx]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/nol/shared/spl/hi/pop_ups/08/americas_enl_1244480157/img/1.jpg


French sub

The US listening devices are being flown to Brazil and will then be taken to two French tugs that will listen for signals from the plane's black box data recorders, the Pentagon said.

They can detect signals from the black boxes up to a depth of 20,000ft (6,100m).

The boxes are programmed to emit signals for 30 days.


A French submarine is also expected to arrive this week at the crash site to help with the search.

Teams from France and Brazil are continuing to scour the site of the crash.

The bodies that have been found will be taken by ship to Fernando de Noronha, before being moved to the Brazilian city of Recife, where a temporary mortuary has been established.

Brazilian President Luiz Inacio Lula da Silva said his country would do all it could to retrieve more bodies.

Discussing the possible cause of the crash, French officials have said the plane's sensors could have iced over, meaning pilots may have flown into a storm without knowing their speed.

France's Transport Minister Dominique Bussereau told French radio that such a situation could have resulted in "two bad consequences for the survival of the plane".

"Too low a speed, which can cause it to stall, or too high a speed, which can lead to the plane ripping up as it approached the speed of sound, as the outer skin is not designed to resist such speed," he said.

Air France has said it is stepping up the process of replacing speed monitors on board its Airbus planes.

The company said it first noticed problems with speed monitors a year ago and began replacing them a few weeks before the accident.

But investigators have said it is too early to say what role faulty sensors might have played in the crash.

[xxMATTGxx]

More News:


Brazilian authorities say they have found 8 more bodies from the airbus which crashed in the Atlantic, bringing total to 24.

[Sammeth.]

Who goes looking for wreckage in speedos, thats just being silly.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/nol/shared/spl/hi/pop_ups/08/americas_enl_1244480157/img/1.jpg

[xxMATTGxx]

"Brazilian Air Force arrived at Fernando de Noronha with the first 16 bodies. "

http://i41.tinypic.com/dw8fgn.jpg

Fixed image. :)

[Yoshimitsui]

No image Matt ;)

[lick]

Omg Matt you love planes dont you :lol:

[xxMATTGxx]

Omg Matt you love planes dont you :lol:

In a way but I'm also concerned on the cause of this crash. Planes don't fall out of the sky at cruising altitude for no reason :P

[BeanEgg]

So I was right about signal beams lasting for 30 days only. - Hope they find it and begin an investigation.

[LuketheDuke]

A theory is some of the planes machinery failed when the plane was doing too much speed going through a patch of heavy turbulance.

This could have led to a complete malfunction which would mean the plane went without a trace.

[Dan!]

So I was right about signal beams lasting for 30 days only. - Hope they find it and begin an investigation.

Correct :) then again their was a case where a plane crash it took them a few years to fine the blackbox not all of the infomation was their but it did give them an idea/picture of what happed.


A theory is some of the planes machinery failed when the plane was doing too much speed going through a patch of heavy turbulance.

This could have led to a complete malfunction which would mean the plane went without a trace.

really?? did not think they were jumping the gun at this stage?? i know they were saying about problem with so called "speed monitors"

i guess their trying to come up with some sort of theory or theory's to what happed.

got to love how they saying how they notice problem with "speed monitors" and only started replacing them two weeks before the crash makes me feel much better knowing that :rolleyes:

[Immenseman]

Urgh, breaking news:

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/5/20090610/twl-terror-names-linked-to-doomed-flight-3fd0ae9.html


Two passengers with names linked to Islamic terrorism were on board the Air France flight which crashed with the loss of 228 lives, it has emerged.

French secret servicemen established the connection while working through the list of those who boarded the doomed Airbus in Rio de Janeiro, Brazil, on May 31st.
Flight AF447 crashed in mid-Atlantic en route to Paris during a violent storm.
While it is certain that there were computer malfunctions, terrorism has not been ruled out.
Soon after news of the fatal crash broke, agents working for the DGSE (Direction Générale de la Sécurité Extérieure), the French equivalent of MI6, were dispatched to Brazil.
It was there that they established that two names on the passenger list are also on highly classified documents listing the names of radical Muslims considered a threat to the French Republic.
A source working for the French security services told Paris weekly L'Express that the link was "highly significant".
Agents are now trying to establish dates of birth for the two dead passengers, and family connections.
There is a possibility that the name similarities are simply a "macabre coincidence", the source added, but the revelation is still being "taken very seriously".
France has received numerous threats from Islamic terrorist groups in recent months, especially since French troops were sent to fight in Afghanistan.
Security chiefs have been particularly worried about airborne suicide attacks similar to the ones on the United States on September 11th 2001.

[Dan!]

Urgh, breaking news:

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/5/20090610/twl-terror-names-linked-to-doomed-flight-3fd0ae9.html

at the moment to me it seems if their trying to come up with other reasons so the blame is removed from Air France.

but, thanks for information.

[Immenseman]

well they obviously have to investigate every single possible reason.

[Dan!]

well they obviously have to investigate every single possible reason.

of course i know that, i guess its just the way the news comes across.

[efq]

If they were already on a list, they have all right to believe it could of been them.

[xxMATTGxx]

It could be a bomb. They did recievee bomb threats and it has been confirmed they did. So you can't really say its not them or rule it out. We have to wait and see :(.



Nuclear sub joins Air France hunt

A French nuclear submarine has arrived at the scene of the Air France crash in the ocean off Brazil to start searching for the flight's data recorders.

The "black boxes", which emit a locator signal for about 30 days, could be up to 6,100m (20,000ft) deep, on the bed of the Atlantic.

They could provide vital clues as to why the Airbus A330 crashed on 1 June.

Brazilian air and sea searches have now recovered 41 bodies from the plane, which had 228 people on board.

The submarine, and Brazilian naval and air forces, have a large and remote area of ocean to search.



http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/45894000/jpg/_45894806_wing_ap.jpg

[Rock]

I don't really think it was a "Islamic terrorism" attack. Could have well been a bomb.

These things don't just make me sad, they make me afraid.

[lick]

Sucks for this person. not really news on the crash but something related to it

"Italian who missed fatal Air France flight dies in car crash"

http://en.rian.ru/world/20090610/155219163.html

[eight]

Sucks for this person. not really news on the crash but something related to it

"Italian who missed fatal Air France flight dies in car crash"

http://en.rian.ru/world/20090610/155219163.html

Thats final destination stuff.

Like the people who were meant to die that day, have to die. :S

Scary stuff

[GommeInc]

It may just be me, but I think that maybe fake... Looking at the other articles on that site, they're a bit dodgy :P

[xxMATTGxx]

Not had any news for a while. But here is some!

Flight 447: Air France Airbus broke up in mid-air, autopsies suggest


The results of autopsies carried out on victims of the Air France disaster are consistent with the Airbus A330 passenger jet breaking up in mid air, forensic experts have said.

Broken legs, hips and arms were found by Brazilian authorities on an undisclosed number of the 50 bodies recovered so far from the crash site in the Atlantic after flight 447 went down in a storm en route from Rio de Janeiro to Paris on 31 May killing all 228 people on board.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/jun/18/airbus-air-france-crash-autopsies

[Tintinnabulate]

Breaking up in the air is even worse. Imagine how they would have been feeling at the time. Actually its impossible to imagine the fear they would have faced, knowing they are about to die.

[GommeInc]

Breaking up in the air is even worse. Imagine how they would have been feeling at the time. Actually its impossible to imagine the fear they would have faced, knowing they are about to die.
Or they died instantly, no-one will know - what they felt probably never existed, shock would of kicked in and it would feel like one of those "time has frozen" feelings and immediate cut off. Not a nice thing to discuss either way.

[Tintinnabulate]

I doubt they would have died instantly. Anyway are they still searching for the black box?

[Frank459]

Or explosive decompression mightve caused them to fall into unconsciousness and they wouldnt have known a thing. Time for the black box is slipping so I guess if they dont find it in the next week they may never find it.

[xxMATTGxx]

Or explosive decompression mightve caused them to fall into unconsciousness and they wouldnt have known a thing. Time for the black box is slipping so I guess if they dont find it in the next week they may never find it.

Nearly correct on what your saying. Although if they still want the black boxes, then they can still actually search for them. Reminds me of the Air India 747 incident (If I remember correctly) and the black boxes were down there for months. It's just hard at the moment as nothing is really getting reported or told to the public.

[Frank459]

Well for over 300 square miles of oceanic surface to search for these black boxes after the expired 30 days the pingers are alive, I would say its near impossible in the next 5 years to find them.

[xxMATTGxx]

Well for over 300 square miles of oceanic surface to search for these black boxes after the expired 30 days the pingers are alive, I would say its near impossible in the next 5 years to find them.

5 years is a bit big don't you think? Yeah I can see what your saying but most things that people find impossible can actually be possible. They already know it broke up in mid-air instead of landing onto the ocean. So they might not even need the black boxes no more, it just helps.

[Frank459]

A full investigation needs hard evidence of what happened, not just that a few broken limbs were on those of the passengers. They couldve been caused by the impact on the ocean.

300 square miles is a LARGE space and having the boxes at 7000ft below sea level, it will take 5 years or more to do just a small proportion of that area.

[xxMATTGxx]

A full investigation needs hard evidence of what happened, not just that a few broken limbs were on those of the passengers. They couldve been caused by the impact on the ocean.

300 square miles is a LARGE space and having the boxes at 7000ft below sea level, it will take 5 years or more to do just a small proportion of that area.

The findings, confirmed to the Associated Press on Wednesday, suggest the plane disintegrated at altitude and the force of the windstream may have killed the passengers. Forensic examiners also told Brazilian media that some of the bodies had no clothing and no signs of burns, evidence which is also consistent with a mid-air break up.

^^