That's enough. Down with Opera!

[Agnostic Bear]

http://www.jcxp.net/news.php?newsid=2801

Just uninstalled Opera and going to take Opera Mobile off my phone when I next use it (which will be: never).

I fully support the boycott of all Opera products, idiots with no market share crying because nobody wants to use their products.

[Flisker]

Wow that is really unfair of Opera to do that.

[Berch]

Wow. Bit harsh aint they all because people don't want to use their browser think they need to stop crying and face the fact that their is more popular browsers out their other than their own.

[Robbie]

Just because nobody except Professor-Alex and Jamesy use it. Damn that awful browser.

[Chippiewill]

I shalleth join in!

Edit: Could you pretty please make a signature image for those of us who can only go up to 700x150?

Edit2: Scrapping my signature in support for this...

[MrPinkPanther]

Rediculous, simply rediculous. I think Microsoft should be free to have IE8 installed on Windows 7. Its an ease of use thing, so you can boot up and its ready installed and then you can remove it if you dont like it.

Saying that though a "ballot box" system would be cool when you are installing an OS so you can click firefox and it installs it right away.

[Chippiewill]

I say that the ballot box should be allowed but, IE8 pre-installed anyway and opera don't get a shoe in for being so pissy...

[Jamesy]

Just because nobody except Professor-Alex and Jamesy use it. Damn that awful browser.

haha you're free to use or not use what you like :).

[Chippiewill]

It's almost as if Opera doesn't think that twitter exists, the whole game changes nowadays... I mean, look at Apple trying to discredit seven.

[TheMagicTramp]

Just because nobody except Professor-Alex and Jamesy use it. Damn that awful browser.

and TheMagicTramp*

[efq]

That is a bit extreme of them & Opera is crap anyway. I don't know anyone who uses it and don't get why anyone would use it. I tried it and wanted to right click a image and it didn't even show properties or view background :S?

[Recursion]

*removes from Android phone*, never used it anyway, it was slow and clunky even on my N95

[Chippiewill]

+rep to anyone respectable who puts some sort of 'Down with opera' in their signature...

[MrPinkPanther]

I'll admit it. I went through an Opera phase a couple of years back, I wasn't happy with Firefox and IE is apparently crud so I switched to it, after a few weeks I switched back to IE. I use Safari at the moment though.

[Berch]

It's a bit silly really fair enough not being unable to un-install IE was a pain but I got over it just don't open it when they made it so you could un-install that was cool and i'd download Firefox with IE after any new install than remove IE but getting them to remove it completely is a bit..

It's their own damn operating system they should be able to put a huge virus which slows your PC down if they wanted if people don't like that they don't have to buy it not that a virus would be a good thing but even so it's their own operating system which people don't HAVE to buy.

That's like saying to Aston Marin.. Sorry. Your not aloud to ship your cars with wheels anymore for being 'anti-competitive' and people will be forced to use those specific wheels.

Like Wow.. But nevermind they just fail even more because now if anything even less people will use their browser.

[Flisker]

I have made the image smaller and put it in my sig :D

[Jordy]

Removed from Windows Mobile =]

It's not even like they have a good point, about 20% of the Market Share is people who don't use Internet Explorer and they've got just 1% of it - Although IE does get a huge advantage over Market Share, the people who defy Internet Explorer simply use Firefox, Chrome or Safari instead lol.

(Oh and for Symbian & Windows Mobile users, a much better browser is Skyfire which fully supports Flash and Silverlight too!)

[Jahova]

This has gone too far, seriously. Poor Microsoft, they dominate the market by not forcing people to use them but because the alternatives may not be well known or are not cost effective.

The EU are just worrying about little things that can make them big money. That is all this world cares about, money.

[Chippiewill]

I have made the image smaller and put it in my sig :D

Thanks, +rep if I don't need to spread :)

[blanky12!]

Alright put it in my sig, but I've always hated Opera..

[Captain]

this is a joke, microsoft shouldnt of gave in. -.-

[GommeInc]

*bangs head repeatedly on table*

This. Is. Why. I. Hate. The. EU. For. Controlling. Business.

I always thought Firefox was a relative of Opera? Or does Firefox not talk to or about his crazy uncle?

Microsoft should add a bit of coding to 7 which makes Opera unable to be installed :P Unless they're planning on doing that, as a party trick :P

[Laurensh1]

"This website is labeled as unsafe, no software can be installed from this adress"

I rather have IE on my new OS to download FF quicklier...

[Jordy]

this is a joke, microsoft shouldnt of gave in. -.-I'd rather they did, we already know the EU are stupid so I don't really see Microsoft faring well at all. I'd rather have a bit more inconvenience than MS being robbed of a billion euro's which will be passed onto the consumer.


*bangs head repeatedly on table*

This. Is. Why. I. Hate. The. EU. For. Controlling. Business.

I always thought Firefox was a relative of Opera? Or does Firefox not talk to or about his crazy uncle?

Microsoft should add a bit of coding to 7 which makes Opera unable to be installed :P Unless they're planning on doing that, as a party trick :PNah you're thinking of Netscape which Firefox is roughly based on and all the developers ran off from Netscape to develop Firefox, hence the browser dying.

[GommeInc]

I'd rather they did, we already know the EU are stupid so I don't really see Microsoft faring well at all. I'd rather have a bit more inconvenience than MS being robbed of a billion euro's which will be passed onto the consumer.
Passed onto the consumer?! Surely it'll be chucked into a pit with other wasted income on the EU :P

I probably am thinking of Netscape, would be odd if FF is based on Opera :P

[Moh]

Why would you even have Opera in the first place?

[Berch]

Passed onto the consumer?! Surely it'll be chucked into a pit with other wasted income on the EU :P

I probably am thinking of Netscape, would be odd if FF is based on Opera :P

I think he means we would suffer for it somehow but I could be wrong.

[N!ck]

Nah you're thinking of Netscape which Firefox is roughly based on and all the developers ran off from Netscape to develop Firefox, hence the browser dying.

Already dead. It officially ceased over a year ago :P.

[Mikey]

How would you get the internet if there is no web browser, stupid Opera.

[Nli.]

Why aren't they picking on Apple for either?! :(

[Jam]

IE7 all the way.

[Jordy]

Passed onto the consumer?! Surely it'll be chucked into a pit with other wasted income on the EU :P

I probably am thinking of Netscape, would be odd if FF is based on Opera :POh what I meant by the consumer was that it would then affect the quality of Microsoft's products or that their prices would be put up once again.

As for the EU spending the money that's another thing, like you said 'it'll be chucked into a pit with other wasted income'.

[Berch]

Oh what I meant by the consumer was that it would then affect the quality of Microsoft's products or that their prices would be put up once again.

As for the EU spending the money that's another thing, like you said 'it'll be chucked into a pit with other wasted income'.

Yeah thought so :D I posted that but is on other page :(

[GommeInc]

Oh what I meant by the consumer was that it would then affect the quality of Microsoft's products or that their prices would be put up once again.

As for the EU spending the money that's another thing, like you said 'it'll be chucked into a pit with other wasted income'.
Ahhh I see now! It would probably have some effect on pricing and consumer confidence... If it does, what exactly have the EU/Opera won from this? A more expensive product and people not buying it... Not very wise. To be fair, they should complain about Apple too, or Microsoft should say that IE8 is their product, the OS is theirs and if they don't like it, tough.

[Chippiewill]

I read something the other day about the EU fining the UK for not giving enough support to consumers... as if fining is going to help...

The EU is making a while tripe of stupid judgements nowadays.... The only good bit from the EU so far is the Euro, for global unifictation I go with UN...

[Barmi]

Jewish Bear, I did have a fair bit of respect for you. You have now lost all such credibility.

Have any of you actually read the related thread? Seriously, fammie & co. are right. The JCXP logic is flawed fanboism.

http://arstechnica.com/microsoft/news/2009/06/boycott-opera-and-firefox-and-chrome-wait-what.ars

[Jordy]

Jewish Bear, I did have a fair bit of respect for you. You have now lost all such credibility.

Have any of you actually read the related thread? Seriously, fammie & co. are right. The JCXP logic is flawed fanboism.

http://arstechnica.com/microsoft/news/2009/06/boycott-opera-and-firefox-and-chrome-wait-what.arsOpera is a business and they did start it. Mozilla is not a business and therefore aren't complaining to make profits and Google's browser is open-source and they technically don't make anything from Chrome.

[Barmi]

Opera is a business and they did start it. Mozilla is not a business and therefore aren't complaining to make profits and Google's browser is open-source and they technically don't make anything from Chrome.
Opera don't decide whether another business is acting illegally. Opera is perfectly within its legal rights (just as any other body) to report behaviour which breaches anti-trust law.

If the EU/EC find Microsoft's actions in breach of anti-trust law, that's not Opera's fault. They just followed up on a general moral obligation to complain against illegal behaviour; backed up by many other bodies in the industry.

[Jordy]

Opera don't decide whether another business is acting illegally. Opera is perfectly within its legal rights (just as any other body) to report behaviour which breaches anti-trust law.

If the EU/EC find Microsoft's actions in breach of anti-trust law, that's not Opera's fault. They just followed up on a general moral obligation to complain against illegal behaviour; backed up by many other bodies in the industry.They are completely within their rights I agree however as a consumer I do not believe they are benefiting us, quite the opposite infact therefore we're boycotting them because they're putting us at the inconvenience of browsers in Windows 7.

They are not doing it for the consumer, they're doing it for their shareholders, it is inconveniencing me and frankly they are pushing their luck with the already unpredictable EU business laws.

I also do not believe Mozilla or Google would start this themselves, supporting a case and starting it is quite different.

[Chippiewill]

As already stated, mozilla and Chrome are back benchers... they want it to happen so that they can get a leg in however how would you like it if some random part had to be in your computer so it's fair on the person who made it. It makes no sense... All Opera are doing is whining over the falling market-share, nearly all their current users are foreign as well meaning less money from however they get money.(From a quick twitter search of Opera, in which I found only one tweet in english).

Also the only reason why Opera isn't moaning At Apple for the only browser of a Mac basically being Safari is because Opera don't make a browser for Mac...

Hmmm....

http://www.zavvi.de/eunazi3.jpg

[ecstasy]

someone explain this simply?
the links broken and i cba to look through this thread trying to make sense of it

[Chippiewill]

Opera got IE8 pulled from windows seven in EU, now opera want a splash screen to show different browsers in windows. Bascically Opera is whining, Microsoft graciously removed IE8 from Windows seven, and Opera threw it back in their faces. We're all opting in to spread thw word to remove all Opera products and all such things...

[Barmi]

They are completely within their rights I agree however as a consumer I do not believe they are benefiting us, quite the opposite infact therefore we're boycotting them because they're putting us at the inconvenience of browsers in Windows 7.

They are not doing it for the consumer, they're doing it for their shareholders, it is inconveniencing me and frankly they are pushing their luck with the already unpredictable EU business laws.

I also do not believe Mozilla or Google would start this themselves, supporting a case and starting it is quite different.
Why the hell are people boycotting Opera when everything lies with the EU/EC?! Opera's motive for making a complaint is irrelevant. If the EU/EC takes the issue in hand, it must be because there is a legitimate issue with Microsoft, in the eyes of EU/EC (NOT NECESSARILY OPERA!).


As already stated, mozilla and Chrome are back benchers... they want it to happen so that they can get a leg in however how would you like it if some random part had to be in your computer so it's fair on the person who made it. It makes no sense... All Opera are doing is whining over the falling market-share, nearly all their current users are foreign as well meaning less money from however they get money.(From a quick twitter search of Opera, in which I found only one tweet in english).

Also the only reason why Opera isn't moaning At Apple for the only browser of a Mac basically being Safari is because Opera don't make a browser for Mac...

Hmmm....

http://www.zavvi.de/eunazi3.jpg
No. The reason Apple are not being moaned at is because they don't have a dominant share of the OS market. They have ~10% share. Microsoft has the vast majority; consequently they are subject to specific anti-trust law applicable only to dominant parties.

Edit: Opera were simply giving an opinion on a journalistic question. They are not demanding that Microsoft include a number of browsers... but it is their opinion that it would be useful. But it means nothing unless the EU/EC decide for themselves that it is the necessary course of action. Microsoft didn't do it graciously, you fool. They did it to comply with the EU/EC. It is now for the EU/EC to decide whether this action is sufficient. Don't hate on a company for having an opinion.

For the record, I don't use Opera. I'm just overwhelmed by the ridiculous responses I've seen here and on that forum with (not surprisingly) plenty of Americans.

[ecstasy]

gotcha. dont have opera products anyway so im good :P

[Chippiewill]

Why the hell are people boycotting Opera when everything lies with the EU/EC?! Opera's motive for making a complaint is irrelevant. If the EU/EC takes the issue in hand, it must be because there is a legitimate issue with Microsoft, in the eyes of EU/EC (NOT NECESSARILY OPERA!).

Because the EU is getting ALL of it's advice from Opera who want IE to go because they lost out to it...



No. The reason Apple are not being moaned at is because they don't have a dominant share of the OS market. They have ~10% share. Microsoft has the vast majority; consequently they are subject to specific anti-trust law applicable only to dominant parties.
Even 5% is a massive market share, it's already known that Apple is on the up so people may want in on the action.



Edit: Opera were simply giving an opinion on a journalistic question. They are not demanding that Microsoft include a number of browsers... but it is their opinion that it would be useful. But it means nothing unless the EU/EC decide for themselves that it is the necessary course of action. Microsoft didn't do it graciously, you fool. They did it to comply with the EU/EC. It is now for the EU/EC to decide whether this action is sufficient.No, MS did it Graciously, nothing had been demanded by the EU. Also it is quite right for MS to recommend IE as most security software (In businesses, e.g. site blocking) is incompatible with other browsers...

Also the EU is looking for a solution, Opera knows that this is the ideal solution and will most likely put it forward however it is very unfair that MS who make the bloody OS cannot put their own Browser on their own OS. There's a whole load of crap of Windows that I hate however I don't moan about it. Since when did Adobe moan at MS for Paint, or Steam for 'The Purple Place' and Apple for 'Windows Media Player'. I can't wait for us to leave the EU, it's going to happen at this rate... They even fined the UK government for not giving enough consumer support. As if fining is going to help get more money to consumers.... The EU is a whole load of bonkers, crazed up, clueless, idiotic monkey like, insane, ******ed, self interested, plonkers....

http://www.ldh-toulon.net/IMG/eu_nazi2.gifhttp://www.ldh-toulon.net/IMG/eu_nazi2.gifhttp://www.ldh-toulon.net/IMG/eu_nazi2.gifhttp://www.ldh-toulon.net/IMG/eu_nazi2.gifhttp://www.ldh-toulon.net/IMG/eu_nazi2.gif
(Yes I did just compare the EU with hitler)


Now stop claiming that the EUs thoughts matter one ounce and remove opera!

[The Professor]

Just because nobody except Professor-Alex and Jamesy use it. Damn that awful browser.


Jewish Bear, I did have a fair bit of respect for you. You have now lost all such credibility.

Have any of you actually read the related thread? Seriously, fammie & co. are right. The JCXP logic is flawed fanboism.

http://arstechnica.com/microsoft/news/2009/06/boycott-opera-and-firefox-and-chrome-wait-what.ars

I'm glad someone seems to have an alternative opinion because as an Opera user I was worried about sounding fanboyish defending them :P

I haven't read the article Jewish Bear linked to because the site seems to be down atm, if someone that can get to it or has it can post it on here I'd be rather grateful. I have, however, been following the story on cnet on its podcasts and I have to say that although opera were the company that spoke out and brought the lawsuit against microsoft, this little battle has been going on between software makers since forever.

Let me link you to a product page for "Windows XP N" http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/press/2005/jun05/06-08XPNEuropePR.mspx

This is a product that came into existance because of another EU (who else would it be?) ruling that said Microsoft weren't allowed to ship its operating system with Windows Media Player because of court action brought about by the makers of media player software under the same anti trust laws being used in the ruling in this case.

What it seems like to me is Microsoft has had enough of people trying on this anti trust stuff and has refused to play nice. Instead of offering another OS like XP N (which wouldn't really be in their favour since hardly any versions of XP N were actually sold), they've just decided to announce they'll ship 7 without IE altogether. Its what the EU want and Microsoft know full well people will work out that they won't be able to get a browser without IE.

That's the stage we're at now. I don't believe Microsoft will follow through with this plan, it seems to me that they're calling the EUs bluff. Unless the EU are supremely stupid they'll see how much of a problem this is and reverse it and it'll all be forgotten soon enough. Both Microsoft and the EU are intelligent organisations (contrary to what most armchair experts think) and I believe they're just testing the waters, they'll end up meeting in the middle somewhere, probably by making the user choose a browser during installation or something (with an unskippable screen so the user can't forget).

So what does this have to do with opera? Not a whole lot. Opera started the anti trust lawsuit because they felt Microsoft shouldn't force the user to use IE to begin with (which we've established they have to, hence the outcry), but as the ars technica article points out, all the other browser makers had the same thing in mind and spoke out in support of opera. Furthermore the EU, arguably rightly or wrongly, thought they had a strong enough case for them to investigate AND take action on, and no matter how mad the decision seems the fact stands that the browser makers have managed to convince a panel of people that action needs to be taken, so there is obviously some sort of law being broken that none of us know about, unless there's a lawyer among us.

I realise I'm just regurgitating the article Barmi posted (+rep btw) but it sums it up pretty nicely. For those that missed the link, http://arstechnica.com/microsoft/news/2009/06/boycott-opera-and-firefox-and-chrome-wait-what.ars


Also the EU is looking for a solution, Opera knows that this is the ideal solution and will most likely put it forward however it is very unfair that MS who make the bloody OS cannot put their own Browser on their own OS. There's a whole load of crap of Windows that I hate however I don't moan about it. Since when did Adobe moan at MS for Paint, or Steam for 'The Purple Place' and Apple for 'Windows Media Player'. I can't wait for us to leave the EU, it's going to happen at this rate... They even fined the UK government for not giving enough consumer support. As if fining is going to help get more money to consumers.... The EU is a whole load of bonkers, crazed up, clueless, idiotic monkey like, insane, ******ed, self interested, plonkers....

Now stop claiming that the EUs thoughts matter one ounce and remove opera!

That last sentence is quite worrying. Just because there's a ruling against what you believe is right doesn't mean the people who made the ruling don't deserve an opinion. And a rather informed one at that.

[Chippiewill]

***, Opera started the anti-trust inquest because of their falling market share, that is the only reason. It wasn't the consumers interests in mind, just Opera's.

Also if there is no browser installed then apparently standard old explorer can act as a web browser...

[TheMagicTramp]

I'm using Opera right now when writing this post now i've heard all your stuff what's the best browser to use now? I'm thinking of getting Google Chrome but whats yours

[Barmi]

Professor-Alex, it's refreshing to read some sense for a change! :eusa_clap


***, Opera started the anti-trust inquest because of their falling market share, that is the only reason. It wasn't the consumers interests in mind, just Opera's.

Also if there is no browser installed then apparently standard old explorer can act as a web browser...
Seriously, quit whatever vendetta you're on. Opera's motive for bringing a complaint is irrelevant. If the EU/EC believe Microsoft's behaviour is actionable (as per Opera's complaint), that is a Microsoft and EU/EC issue. Opera can do nothing but express their opinion.

Edit: Microsoft are trying to get away with the bare minimum by not including it by default. Instead, they are giving copies to the OEMs who (with a virtual certainty) will install it or provide it for users. Opera (and other parties) are simply suggesting that there is no reason to remove IE from Windows... but offer other options in addition. This is simply an opinion and has no binding force, so why moan about it? We have to wait and see what the EU/EC think about Microsoft's action first.

[Flisker]

I'm using Opera right now when writing this post now i've heard all your stuff what's the best browser to use now? I'm thinking of getting Google Chrome but whats yours
Firefox (http://www.getfirefox.com)

[HotelUser]

Is it unfair? Yes.
IE and Opera both suck anyways so it doesn't matter.
"boycotting" is ******ed. If we boycott here then we should have boycotted Microsoft when they stole the little thing I like to call the GUI. We should have boycotted Netscape in the 90s too..

[Chippiewill]

Seriously, quit whatever vendetta you're on. Opera's motive for bringing a complaint is irrelevant. If the EU/EC believe Microsoft's behaviour is actionable (as per Opera's complaint), that is a Microsoft and EU/EC issue. Opera can do nothing but express their opinion.

Stop claiming that just because the 'almighty' EU sanctioned it, that it is so important. The EU is getting all of it's information from clueless 30 year old tech people and the staff at Opera... you can hardly call it a balanced situation. Also I am allowed to have a vendetta, it is a civil liberty (Probably).

Coke Can <--- Coke | Not Pepsi
Ford Transit Van <--- Ford Engine | Not a Vauxhall Engine
Habbo <--- Habbo stuff | Not Runescape
Toshiba Laptop <--- Toshiba Motherboard | Not Dell Motherboard
Intel based Computer <--- Intel Chip-set | Not AMD Chip-set

People can put whatever the hell they want with their product, as discussed even spyware, adware, viruses e.t.c. can be uncluded and not have to include something else to make the market fair. LIFE ISN'T FAIR

@above This has nothing to do with stealing so don't even bring that up

[Barmi]

Stop claiming that just because the 'almighty' EU sanctioned it, that it is so important. The EU is getting all of it's information from clueless 30 year old tech people and the staff at Opera... you can hardly call it a balanced situation. Also I am allowed to have a vendetta, it is a civil liberty (Probably).
You've adequately demonstrated you have no idea about the legal situation. The opportunity for an informed discussion is now lost.

[-:Undertaker:-]

I do not know much about computers/these issues but it seems yet again the European Union is exercising powers nobody in Europe actually gave it constent to create. The EU is now involving itself with small issues such as these, I wouldn't even expect the USSR/Third Reich to be this bad.

Be prepared for it to get worse.

[Chippiewill]

Probably should have mentioned the ideas proposed above about the EU getting into matter unrelated to them...

[The Professor]

Time to pick apart a post!


Stop claiming that just because the 'almighty' EU sanctioned it, that it is so important. The EU is getting all of it's information from clueless 30 year old tech people and the staff at Opera... you can hardly call it a balanced situation. Also I am allowed to have a vendetta, it is a civil liberty (Probably).

The clueless 30 year old tech people have built high quality browsers for various platforms from scratch. Until you can do the same you don't really have a right to insult their knowledge. And if your argument is based on balance, I'm sure Microsoft with its billions of dollars worth of lawyers can put together a case more convincing than some "clueless 30 year old tech people" can whisper in the EUs ear, yet the clueless people won. Maybe they're less clueless than you make out?

Yes you are allowed a vendetta, but let me introduce you to the concept of rights and responsibilities. You are allowed to think whatever you like and express it in any way you see fit within the law, but if you piss people off in the process (eg. by forcing "DONT USE OPERA" into every post you make) you should expect to be challenged for it. And when you are you need slightly more defence than "I have the right to piss people off" because you'll just be laughed off the forum.


Coke Can <--- Coke | Not Pepsi
Ford Transit Van <--- Ford Engine | Not a Vauxhall Engine
Habbo <--- Habbo stuff | Not Runescape
Toshiba Laptop <--- Toshiba Motherboard | Not Dell Motherboard
Intel based Computer <--- Intel Chip-set | Not AMD Chip-set

People can put whatever the hell they want with their product, as discussed even spyware, adware, viruses e.t.c. can be uncluded and not have to include something else to make the market fair. LIFE ISN'T FAIR


Coke, Ford, Habbo, Toshiba and Intel don't have a monopoly or near-monopoly in their respective areas of business. The case isn't "you can't bundle the software you want with it", its "you can't use the near-monopoly you have on the operating system market to force your browser upon people".


@above This has nothing to do with stealing so don't even bring that up
If you have the right to a vendetta, he has the right to bring up the topic of GUI theft. Bit of a double standard there.

Probably should have mentioned the ideas proposed above about the EU getting into matter unrelated to them...
The EU are related to this problem in the same way the Police are related to a murder that happened down your street. They've been entrusted with the power to govern these competition laws (amongst other things) and when a complaint about anti-competitiveness is filed, its their responsibility to investigate and resolve it.

[Jordy]

Is it unfair? Yes.
IE and Opera both suck anyways so it doesn't matter.
"boycotting" is ******ed. If we boycott here then we should have boycotted Microsoft when they stole the little thing I like to call the GUI. We should have boycotted Netscape in the 90s too..In that case we should also boycott Apple and Linux too. Apple may well of made the GUI popular but they simply stole it for Xerox.

It was Steve Jobs who once said this (Based on Picasso's famous quote):
"Good artists copy; great artists steal."

Microsoft are just as bad as Apple when it comes to stealing, someone needs to watch Pirates of Silicon Valley.

[Recursion]

In that case we should also boycott Apple and Linux too. Apple may well of made the GUI popular but they simply stole it for Xerox.

It was Steve Jobs who once said this (Based on Picasso's famous quote):
"Good artists copy; great artists steal."

Microsoft are just as bad as Apple when it comes to stealing, someone needs to watch Pirates of Silicon Valley.

OT: That's a good film that is.

[Wolves]

It all boils down to one thing, stuff all the political crap, it boils down to what would you rather have if you HAD A CHOICE? because that's what your gonna get, I.E, FireFox, Opera, Chrome, or Safari.

I'd choose Chrome/Safari/Firefox over I.E/Opera, and so would 90% (estimate) of everyone else.

There's nothing that anyone on this forum, and to be honest, no one in this country can do about it.

Just get used to it.

[Chippiewill]

Perhaps we should just get Opera's market share to low to be considered for the 'Choosing Screen' idea and then go ahead with it, that way we can all get FF easy... and then we can also download all the major browsers in one go

[GommeInc]

I go with consumer choice, what if people don't want all these browsers forced upon them? People naturally use IE as a starting spot, so having IE on all computers isn't harmful at all - it has its uses and can be replaced with another browser at the choice of the consumer. If the computer manufacturing plants have to choose which to install, they'll probably just bundle IE anyway - that way it is down to the individual businesses that make computers, and not Microsofts fault. It's like Ford doing really well, then the EU telling them they're doing too well and Ford having to recall its cars/the EU having to complain to the consumers (because individual companies that build computers can technically be considered consumers too) - consumer confidence and benefits are stripped away for what appears to be no reason. Translate that into this case it becomes:

Individual computer companies bundle IE with their computers - the EU complains to Microsoft - Microsoft/EU has to get involved to stop people installing it freely - businesses are losing out.

And I doubt the EU would target individual companies from installing what they feel is right, and I suspect they'll go with the norm which is IE - because it has always come with PCs and no-one has complained.

[Wolves]

kay this has now been blown out of all proportion, it's pathetic.

get used to it though guys. :)