Nicholas Sarkozy to 'ban muslim veils'

[ToxicPaddy]

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/22/20090622/tpl-uk-france-sarkozy-burqas-b3150e0.html

Bloody good on him too, wish our PM would start doing stuff like this, and stop worrying about 'offending people' :/

[LuketheDuke]

Im not sure about this, whilst the ban on veils in schools keeps them strictly partisan the way they should be to do it in every day society is a big leap.

Will it encourage participation and understanding of different ethnic backgrounds? Could provoke more problems than it sets out to solve.

[GommeInc]

Im not sure about this, whilst the ban on veils in schools keeps them strictly partisan the way they should be to do it in every day society is a big leap.

Will it encourage participation and understanding of different ethnic backgrounds? Could provoke more problems than it sets out to solve.
I'm guessing it's an eye for an eye situation. In one of the veil wearing countries they don't wear veils other than for when they go to another country (very strange looking story) so banning them kinda puts an end to contradictions and hypocrisy.

[LuketheDuke]

I'm guessing it's an eye for an eye situation. In one of the veil wearing countries they don't wear veils other than for when they go to another country (very strange looking story) so banning them kinda puts an end to contradictions and hypocrisy.


Itd be nice if religion could be sidelined to private practice upon certain secular groups and then in public everyone could remove anything thatd tie them to such practices to keep it neutral but can anybody ever see that happening?

Its a delicate issue thats for certain/

[CHA!NGANG]

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/22/20090622/tpl-uk-france-sarkozy-burqas-b3150e0.html

Bloody good on him too, wish our PM would start doing stuff like this, and stop worrying about 'offending people' :/

That's not very open minded is it.. No he shouldn't ban people from wearing them in my opinion. Maybe from schools, and I can see why that can happen but in public spaces, no. It's a free right for people to wear what they feel comfortable in and this is also for religious issues and I think that he is wrong for banning them.

[ashyboy999]

its good to find someone who has a backbone literally.

this 2 faced hypocritical view does my head in:

its wrong to discriminate muslims who wear viels or burhkas, literally clothed head to toe so u dont know who they are.

but its right to discriminate against white or black youths for wearing tracksuits?

its alright for muslims to protest our traditions and our ways of life but its not alright for us to do the same back its rascism lol.

we have a government of hypocrits here. its one rule for islamics another for us and thats completely wrong to be living in a society like that.

[Wahey]

Good! He's my fave mp now :@

[efq]

I am not entirely sure but i'm not saying its a bad idea. But what makes it best is that he hes the guts to do it and thats what you need in this world.

[Niall!]

I could run for Prime Minister and I would win you know.

I agree with many people that the society in UK is now such that we can't even fly our flag without people claiming racism. If I were Prime Minister, I would tell them to learn the traditions of our country and if they refuse because of religion, I would tell them to get out.

[Titch]

I could run for Prime Minister and I would win you know.

I agree with many people that the society in UK is now such that we can't even fly our flag without people claiming racism. If I were Prime Minister, I would tell them to learn the traditions of our country and if they refuse because of religion, I would tell them to get out.

Sounding a bit like jeremy clarkson there :P

[Wahey]

Woo Jeremy Clarkson (L)
But seriously, if they're going to live here, they should live by OUR rules. I'm fed up of all this crap about racism

[Jackk]

if i was pm, i'd send them all back.

[Wahey]

if i was pm, i'd send them all back.
God damnit, why don't you become one? :(

[alexxxxx]

I think the full burkah where there is a only slits for the eyes is disgusting and shows no respect to the women at all. These women are often brainwashed from youth that they must wear these to follow their faith, which is completely untrue. My cousins are muslims, not ONE of them wears a headscarf in any shape or form (and they live in the middle-east). I think the full veil should be banned from public buildings (schools, councils, doctor's surgeories) as one, they pose a security risk (would we let people into public buildings with a motorcycle helmet on or a full balaclava? No. I hope the community and religious leaders can get through to women that they don't have to do as they are told by their male counterparts and that they can do as they wish. I think this is a woman's rights issue as well as a cultural/security issue.

[ifuseekamy]

if i was pm, i'd send them all back.
Send them all back where?

[Catzsy]

Send them all back where?

Also who would you send back? I hope we are going to have an intelligent informed debate here rather than some generalised one sentence answers.

The world is a melting pot of all different cultures. The veil is one tradition in this world. His view is that is demeaning to women and yes it is if those women do not want to wear it and are compelled to but obviously some are happy with the tradition. In this country and other countries many, many refuse to wear the veil and Alex has given examples of this. He is taking away their rights to follow their tradition which to me is as bad as making those women who don't want to wear it comply with the tradition. I think governments should keep out of these issues, personally except when they are a matter of national safety or security.

[Niall!]

Also who would you send back? I hope we are going to have an intelligent informed debate here rather than some generalised one sentence answers.

The world is a melting pot of all different cultures. The veil is one tradition in this world. His view is that is demeaning to women and yes it is if those women do not want to wear it and are compelled to but obviously some are happy with the tradition. In this country and other countries many, many refuse to wear the veil and Alex has given examples of this. He is taking away their rights to follow their tradition which to me is as bad as making those women who don't want to wear it comply with the tradition. I think governments should keep out of these issues, personally except when they are a matter of national safety or security.

No, this isn't all security related for me, only partly.
My view on the subject is this. I don't know if you remember a few months back at Christmas when a muslim family managed to rid a street of its Christmas decorations on the basis that they didn't celebrate Christmas and therefore keeping them there would be racist.

That set me thinking, and the number of cases like this is rising, even here in France. Someone wore a veil to school, something which one member of the class absolutely hated. When asked to take it off, she replied that they were racist and ganging up on her. She went to her parents and get this, the french child was forced to change class because of it.

As for the question as to where, I would send them back to their country. Sure, this would be expensive, but do you want to live in a Britain that isn't run by the British, but other races?

Some of my posts may come across as racist, but I insist that I am not. I have lived in France for 4 years now and have had many racist remarks made. But I adapted to their lifestyle, I didn't force any of my habits or traditions (for example, their fathers day and mothers day is on a different day to us, I didn't force them to celebrate my day).

In conclusion, I believe that immigrating to another country is an agreement that you will not hinder the laws/traditions of the citizens of the country, and to not enforce your tradition on anyone.

[ifuseekamy]

As for the question as to where, I would send them back to their country. Sure, this would be expensive, but do you want to live in a Britain that isn't run by the British, but other races?
Maybe you should ask your French neighbours that considering you are an immigrant in their country.

[Catzsy]

No, this isn't all security related for me, only partly.
My view on the subject is this. I don't know if you remember a few months back at Christmas when a muslim family managed to rid a street of its Christmas decorations on the basis that they didn't celebrate Christmas and therefore keeping them there would be racist.

That set me thinking, and the number of cases like this is rising, even here in France. Someone wore a veil to school, something which one member of the class absolutely hated. When asked to take it off, she replied that they were racist and ganging up on her. She went to her parents and get this, the french child was forced to change class because of it.

As for the question as to where, I would send them back to their country. Sure, this would be expensive, but do you want to live in a Britain that isn't run by the British, but other races?

Some of my posts may come across as racist, but I insist that I am not. I have lived in France for 4 years now and have had many racist remarks made. But I adapted to their lifestyle, I didn't force any of my habits or traditions (for example, their fathers day and mothers day is on a different day to us, I didn't force them to celebrate my day).

In conclusion, I believe that immigrating to another country is an agreement that you will not hinder the laws/traditions of the citizens of the country, and to not enforce your tradition on anyone.

Well I can't say I agree with all of your post but I do agree with the Xmas decoration scenario - that is just a case of political correctness gone mad and would have done nothing for community relations. A well structured well thought out post though. =]

[alexxxxx]

"Send them back to their own country." ALOT if not MOST asians are born in this country and this is their home. You can't "send them back."

When people wear the veil it isn't something they are enforcing on you, they are doing it to themselves. So I don't think that argument holds much weight. But I think it's important that people's faces are seen and we do live in a country where the majority of people think it's acceptable for women (and everyone for that matter) to have to show their faces. Therefore I think that local government, the police, doctors should have the power to ask to ban veils covering their faces. But ultimately it IS a personal decision. I feel split down the middle on this topic because I feel it's wrong to tell people that they can't wear something yet I feel like it's wrong/rude for people to not show their faces and that I believe that certain cultures (not just muslim) have a big issue with women's rights. :eusa_wall

[Wahey]

I think it could reduce the ammount of immagrants moving to the country
Finding out they aint aloud veils will probs put them off the country

[Jackk]

australia has got the immigration crack on, we need to learn from them and stop just letting anyone in.

[Immenseman]

I don't know where you lot get your ideas from. How can you say we don't celebrate British traditions, we do. Are we openly allowed to celebrate Christmas? Yes. Have you personally ever seen a muslim object to it other than from what you've read in the Mirror :rolleyes: I have no idea where the majority of you gauge your opinions from.

They should wear what the hell they want when the hell they want. Same goes for everyone, it's ridiculous "banning" items they wear.

[FlyingJesus]

Good! He's my fave mp now :@

Immediately banned from any political debate for thinking Sarkozy is an MP

[Wolves]

I agree with Sarkozy, but not with the way he put his point across, I agree with him yes, but stuff like this will never happen because their would be such uproars and repercussions that it would be impossible to bring a law like this into force in France, and especially in the UK.

Fair play to him for speaking what everyone is thinking though, least he's got balls, unlike our Scottish idiot.

[Hitman]

Personally, I agree with Sarkozy's view. We worry to much about offending people, when really we should be protecting our countries traditions and keeping it how it has been. I'm not racist, nor would I vote for the BNP because I don't mind immigration so long as it's controlled. As long as we let in people who will bring something to the country, not just feed off of it, then that's fine.

I was told about an incident that happened in a school in the UK which was just absurd. What happened was that a Christian girl was wearing a cross on a necklace, and some Muslim girls complained. The girl was forced to remove it, however the Muslim girls were allowed to continue wearing their religious garments. As said before, the number incidents such as these continue to rise.

In the UK, there are Mosques built in many cities. If we went to some Asian countries and just decided to build Christian churches then I'm sure we'd be asked to leave the country or abide by their 'rules'. That's how it should be in the UK.

When in Rome, do as the Romans do.

[GommeInc]

I do find it odd how bad the country has gone, socially. When you look at religion for example, Christianity is frowned by other religions are welcome, when history shows Christianity has played an important role in most of the British politics - Lizzie the 1st for example and Oliver Cromwell (I think) who used religion to deal with the poor government.

I'm not saying Christianity is amazing or should be publicly displayed more than anything imaginable, but if they allow anyone to show off their beliefs, surely the one that played the biggest role should be the one playing the biggest role?

Looking at most of the government constituitions, and the fact you have to swear on the bible for most things, kinda looks odd to me.
No-one gets offended by someone wearing a crucifix necklace, so why shun Christians when they've never really been anti-social toward the country? It's what I've been baffled about for a while now, the main religion is the one getting bullied while others freely walk by, look at it, laugh and walk straight on in causing the trouble - we have to abide by their rules, so why can't they abide by simple, unwritten dress codes which is "dress as a european"?

But the majority of muslims, jews I know are OK and don't act pedantic over small things, the extremists are the ones that should be kicked out because they just roll around in contradictions until the cows come home "We hate Britain! But we'll gladly live here for no raisin :)"

P.S. I'm not religious, but I'm not anti-social - I know lots of Christians that are told to water down their beliefs even though they're not extremists, by not wearing crosses and what have you, or read the Bible at work (:P). I just let people get on with what they want, with the freedom to do so provided it's not to annoy anyone, and Christians don't annoy anyone other than the small minded only looking for an argument.

[Hecktix]

I disagree with this.
It would be like a Middle Eastern country turning around and saying "if a woman lives in this country they must, no matter what religion they follow, wear a hijab'

It's just absurd and racist.

-rep to sarkozy

[FlyingJesus]

I do find it odd how bad the country has gone, socially. When you look at religion for example, Christianity is frowned by other religions are welcome, when history shows Christianity has played an important role in most of the British politics - Lizzie the 1st for example and Oliver Cromwell (I think) who used religion to deal with the poor government.

Not to mention the fact that we are legally and officially a Christian country :P

[CHA!NGANG]

Most asians are born here so it's not as easy as... send them back home. Also whoever it was up there that put it ^^^ you are either racist, or very stupid if im honest, same goes for whoever said he was an MP. Also to whoever said that would you rather have your country run by foreigners, I don't know what country you live in, but there is a British Prime Minister who runs the country, not a foreign one. Muslims should be able to live here if they want and that's not even the topic that's being discussed so if you have views on that maybe this isn't the thread to put them in. Yes I agree with banning them in places such as schools/hospitals e/c/t, but not in a public area.

[GommeInc]

Not to mention the fact that we are legally and officially a Christian country :P
Indeed, yet apparently no-one wants to be, even though it's not forced down our throats every second of the day :P

[Robbie]

I think this is a completely wrong descision, no matter how much I dislike people wearing them, I think people should be free to wear whatever they want.

On the subject of immigration, I've no problems with immigration really, as long as the immigrants pay into the system and aren't just sponging, thats when they should be just removed from the country and not be permitted back.

As Jack was saying with Australia, they have a fantastic immigration system and have plenty of measures in place to stop spongers etc, for example you get no benefits etc from Centrelink until you are a citizen and to become a citizen you must have lived in Australia and worked in Australia in a SOL job for three years (shorter if your job is MODL or CSL) and accept the values etc.

I do, however believe that if everyone was like Australia in terms of immigration policies, we'd be ******. We need some countries to have less strict rules for the world to work, some countries need immigration and migrants to survive, all countries are interdependent. (not all the time, and I don't mean just open the floodgates and let every Tom, **** and Mohammed in the country). I'd feel awful if I was discriminated against, especially as an immigrant (which I will be in a few years on an Australian 417 visa, moving to a 457 and then lastly on to an 856 and applying for citizenship, or I could just go for the straight 175 visa. ANYWAY thats offtopic so..)

They are also the reasons I am against the BNP in every way.

[Wahey]

Immediately banned from any political debate for thinking Sarkozy is an MP
Meh, not into politics. I can live with it
Anyways i stand by his decision

[Niall!]

Maybe you should ask your French neighbours that considering you are an immigrant in their country.

You didn't even read my post, I stated that people that impose their traditions on people shouldn't be allowed to stay in the country, whereas people like me don't try to force anything on the French.

[Robbie]

You didn't even read my post, I stated that people that impose their traditions on people shouldn't be allowed to stay in the country, whereas people like me don't try to force anything on the French.

I agree on that. I know in my previous post I said people should be allowed to wear what they want, and I stand by that, but forcing beliefs and traditions upon someone/people/a country is just wrong and shouldn't be allowed anywhere, think of Jehova's Witnesses, damn annoying.

The point of religous freedom is to allow people to believe in what they like etc but forcing beliefs upon someone is wrong.

So I agree with you :8

[Browney]

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/22/20090622/tpl-uk-france-sarkozy-burqas-b3150e0.html

Bloody good on him too, wish our PM would start doing stuff like this, and stop worrying about 'offending people' :/

loving the quote in your sig about racial unity ands you being the one to post this.


its good to find someone who has a backbone literally.

I'm pretty sure I literally have a backbone...
Also, in your point about discriminating kids in trackies, they themselves choose to wear the uniform of the yob. The intimidator of many, the mass hate figure, which sends a message to people: I'm one of the crowd who throw bricks at houses. Now, they can't play the ******* scapegoat with me, as they choose those clothes, whereas burkhas are required, so don't give me that ****.


I could run for Prime Minister and I would win you know.

I agree with many people that the society in UK is now such that we can't even fly our flag without people claiming racism. If I were Prime Minister, I would tell them to learn the traditions of our country and if they refuse because of religion, I would tell them to get out.

I agree with this, we show their traditions respect, I would hope they could do the same by learning about some traditions of ours and hopefully having a greater respect for such traditions.


I think the full burkah where there is a only slits for the eyes is disgusting and shows no respect to the women at all.

I thought they wear them to stop the men getting tempted?


australia has got the immigration crack on, we need to learn from them and stop just letting anyone in.

We need to learn from Australia, not sure they have it dead on but yeah.


Fair play to him for speaking what everyone is thinking though, least he's got balls, unlike our Scottish idiot.

Scottish idiot? But "Go Murray!" right? :P

nah, my opinion is, he's wrong. You can say hes right because muslims are forcing their beliefs on us, but as soon as their traditions and a part of their very religion is banned, then who is forcing their beliefs on others? and tbh, seeing a woman walk down the street in full dress and headscarf doesn't phase me or force anything on me at all. alot of huff over nothing.

[dirrty]

this is just preposterous. it's the hijab which covers a womans head, as the burka only covers their body. muslim women cover themselves mainly to restrict attention from men based upon their looks. in addition, muslim men wear a dishdash which covers their body so the other difference between men & women is that womens faces are sometimes covered and mens arent.

also, the qu'ran says that they should dress accordingly so therefore muslims will follow what the qu'ran says as its their holy book. same with christians following the bibles teachings they both (and all religions) believe that following their holy book and using it for their way of life will benefit them in the after-life or whatever they believe will happen once they die.

[-:Undertaker:-]

Could you imagine if someone tried this in the United Kingdom?. In the 2005 General Election Michael Howard (Conservative Leader) was named racist by the Labour Party for campaigning for a limit and for some control in regards to immigration. In regards to Sarkozy; congratulations to him, he is not racist - he is supporting French values, something the politicians need to do in this country, just like they do all around the world.