Windows 7 Prices

[Turbocom]

Since some idiot mod deleted it - again

I'll just give a quick summary.

Windows 7 prices have been announced.

Edited by MattGarner (Forum Manager): Please do not be rude to a member of staff.

Thread closed by nvrspk4 (General Manager). You can recreate the thread, but keep it on topic and flame free.

[Berch]

Since some idiot mod deleted it - again

I'll just give a quick summary.

Windows 7 prices have been announced.

Maybe you shouldn't ask for it to be deleted if you don't want it to be?

[Wootzeh]

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/shared/img/o.gif WINDOWS 7 UPGRADE PRICES
Home Premium - £79.99
Professional - £189.99
Ultimate - £199.99


WINDOWS 7 RETAIL PRICES
Home Premium - £149.99
Professional - £219.99
Ultimate - £229.99




dammmm didn't expect them be that high

[Chippiewill]

Extortionate considering vista...

[Pyroka]

Jesus christ, that really is bad. Everyone will be counterfeitting them no doubt.

Oh wait, I get a Technet account in September so it wont matter *dances*

[Berch]

Jesus christ, that really is bad. Everyone will be counterfeitting them no doubt.

Oh wait, I get a Technet account in September so it wont matter *dances*

Nice! I wouldn't mind getting myself an account their as well for stuff like this 7 Keys and so on and any other operating system but guess I will have to buy it this time around at least if I want a legit copy anyway.

[alexxxxx]

It's a bit confusing about the pricing though because the true upgrade version won't be available in europe.

[N!ck]

That's retail prices, not OEM. Vista is a similar retail price ie. http://ebuyer.com/search?sort=pricehigh&store=6&cat=112&subcat=1169&mfr=93&limit=10&page=1

OEM prices will be less like they are with Viata. http://ebuyer.com/search?page=1&store=6&cat=107&mfr=93&subcat=1122

[Pyroka]

I'm surprised anyone who has seen these prices hasn't had a heart attack!

Oh... wait...

[N!ck]

I'm surprised anyone who has seen these prices hasn't had a heart attack!

Oh... wait...

IT works out similar to Vista's pricing http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/software/microsofts-official-vista-pricing-announced-still-expensive-198616.php

Remember this is RETAIL, not the OEM version that most of us buy which is cheaper.

[Pyroka]

I guess you didnt get the joke there N!ck... I'm so sick x]

OEM will be cheaper I guess, I'm just hoping they have it on MSDNAA in Staffordshire. >_>

[N!ck]

I guess you didnt get the joke there N!ck... I'm so sick x]

OEM will be cheaper I guess, I'm just hoping they have it on MSDNAA in Staffordshire. >_>

No, I got the "joke", I was just replying to the part that related to this thread :P. And I do think these prices are a little high, but they will sell loads ad it's a great OS.

[Pyroka]

No, I got the "joke", I was just replying to the part that related to this thread :P. And I do think these prices are a little high, but they will sell loads ad it's a great OS.

Yeah I honestly dont think MANY people will pirate it, it looks pretty damn decent.

[HotelUser]

Since some idiot mod deleted it - again

I'll just give a quick summary.

Windows 7 prices have been announced.

Edited by MattGarner (Forum Manager): Please do not be rude to a member of staff.

It is very immature/rude to defame a moderator, especially since they're volunteering to help keep the forum clean.

Anyways, these expensive prices upset me (along with the usual crappy multiple version selection). Why can't Microsoft release upgrades for $29 dollars, like their Apple counterparts.

Oh well, the XP that comes along with it will make it worth it. Though it's kind of funny, Microsoft basically admitting that they can't make a modern operating system compatible with third-party applications, so they're including a 9 year old operating system for compatibility, an operating system the user should have probably been using anyways, because Vista sucks.

That's right Matt&*****: I have defamed our beloved Microsoft:eusa_danc

[HD-Christopher]

Jesus christ, that really is bad. Everyone will be counterfeitting them no doubt.

Oh wait, I get a Technet account in September so it wont matter *dances*

I use to work for the MSDN and TechNet Subscriptions team in LA.

And it probally won't be released right away on MSDNAA. It will most likly take a little longer for them to put in on MSDNAA.

[Jahova]

Very high prices indeed. But, it may all be worth it as the Beta and the RC1 were excellent.

[Turbocom]

It is very immature/rude to defame a moderator, especially since they're volunteering to help keep the forum clean.

Anyways, these expensive prices upset me (along with the usual crappy multiple version selection). Why can't Microsoft release upgrades for $29 dollars, like their Apple counterparts.

Oh well, the XP that comes along with it will make it worth it. Though it's kind of funny, Microsoft basically admitting that they can't make a modern operating system compatible with third-party applications, so they're including a 9 year old operating system for compatibility, an operating system the user should have probably been using anyways, because Vista sucks.

That's right Matt&*****: I have defamed our beloved Microsoft:eusa_danc

I don't like you, and I don't like the way you think Microsoft should "follow" Apple in everyway possible. This operating system offers more than Mac Os X and personally they have broken the mold for Windows.

People love(d) Windows XP because of one reason - it worked. Personally, I love it how Microsoft has added it in to help business like a transition to 7. Also, if you're having problems with Windows Vista did you ever think it's your fault? Maybe its YOUR fault for buying faulty hardware, you know that? Maybe the 3rd party who wrote the software did a terrible job - VISTA is not your escape goat. Frankly if you keep up to date, you shouldn't have a problem with it.

I've never had a problem with Windows Vista - ever. Just so you know, Microsoft has re-created Windows, and in my opinon Apples run out of ideas.

[Chippiewill]

Oh well, the XP that comes along with it will make it worth it. Though it's kind of funny, Microsoft basically admitting that they can't make a modern operating system compatible with third-party applications, so they're including a 9 year old operating system for compatibility, an operating system the user should have probably been using anyways, because Vista sucks.


http://apublicdefender.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/facepalm.jpg

You idiot... you quite obviously have no understanding of why they are including XP mode with it....


XP mode is basically the most genius thing that MS have ever come up with, it is like the ultimate compatibility mode, don't just slam something before you understand it. Compatibility mode is basically what bloats up windows.... this is faaaarrr better

[Recursion]

It is very immature/rude to defame a moderator, especially since they're volunteering to help keep the forum clean.

Anyways, these expensive prices upset me (along with the usual crappy multiple version selection). Why can't Microsoft release upgrades for $29 dollars, like their Apple counterparts.

Oh well, the XP that comes along with it will make it worth it. Though it's kind of funny, Microsoft basically admitting that they can't make a modern operating system compatible with third-party applications, so they're including a 9 year old operating system for compatibility, an operating system the user should have probably been using anyways, because Vista sucks.

That's right Matt&*****: I have defamed our beloved Microsoft:eusa_danc

I can use the excuse of being a Windows or Mac user thanks. LOL. Mac ftw!11!1

I have to agree with Turbocom too.

[Wootzeh]

Oh well, the XP that comes along with it will make it worth it. Though it's kind of funny, Microsoft basically admitting that they can't make a modern operating system compatible with third-party applications, so they're including a 9 year old operating system for compatibility, an operating system the user should have probably been using anyways, because Vista sucks.

What's this bootcamp that comes with OS X? :S:S

[Chippiewill]

I was about to leave the house when I was explaining

Basically XP mode will have the best compatibility ever. Basically programs running under it will even be in you win7 task bar e.t.c. so basically you will not even notice the virtual machine. Rather than including all the old files from previous windows as part of windows seven they can instead use XP mode and not bother including any backwards compatibility. They are using it this time round however in future it can be used for compatibility with 32bit programs (Win7 is the last version of windows to come with a 32bit version, MS claims anyway). Hopefully MS will create a bloatware OS for backwards compatibility, that way you can run any programs ever.

[Recursion]

I think its about bloody time they forced 64bit upon consumers, we've had 64bit CPUs for long enough.

[HotelUser]

I don't like you
http://newmedia.funnyjunk.com/pictures/damn_process.gif

, and I don't like the way you think Microsoft should "follow" Apple in everyway possible.
No, you're wrong. They should follow eachother in certain ways. Microsoft could release one version of Windows, Apple could get rid of the Apple tax. Two small examples.

This operating system offers more than Mac Os X and personally they have broken the mold for Windows.
If you think Microsoft offers more than OSX then you don't know much about operating systems at all.

People love(d) Windows XP because of one reason - it worked. Personally, I love it how Microsoft has added it in to help business like a transition to 7.
Maybe they added the 9 year old OS for compatibility:eusa_wall
Also, if you're having problems with Windows Vista did you ever think it's your fault? Maybe its YOUR fault for buying faulty hardware, you know that? Maybe the 3rd party who wrote the software did a terrible job - VISTA is not your escape goat. Frankly if you keep up to date, you shouldn't have a problem with it.
Tell that to the millions of people who have had problems with it (yes, I just used font styles too!). You're wrong again. I've owned several Vista machines. Though compatibility with hardware is one issue, there are many issues. Application compatibility is terrible, Vista wasn't very stable, and it's bloody slow.

I've never had a problem with Windows Vista - ever. Just so you know, Microsoft has re-created Windows, and in my opinon Apples run out of ideas.
And you've never owned or used OSX as your primary operating system. Hmm.... you're not taking sides without knowing anything about the alternative are you? Because that would be very childish. Also, "Apple has run out of ideas?" I guess you wouldn't have a clue what Snow Leopard was, would you?


What's this bootcamp that comes with OS X? :S:S

Something I use to test an operating system. You'd have to be nuts to actually run Windows on a Mac and use it all the time. What's the point of paying so much for the computer if you're just going to use the awful OS that you could have gotten with a computer for $400 less?


I was about to leave the house when I was explaining

Basically XP mode will have the best compatibility ever. Basically programs running under it will even be in you win7 task bar e.t.c. so basically you will not even notice the virtual machine. Rather than including all the old files from previous windows as part of windows seven they can instead use XP mode and not bother including any backwards compatibility. They are using it this time round however in future it can be used for compatibility with 32bit programs (Win7 is the last version of windows to come with a 32bit version, MS claims anyway). Hopefully MS will create a bloatware OS for backwards compatibility, that way you can run any programs ever.

You're referring to Unity/Seamless mode. It's not a new feature. Just a feature Microsoft hasn't used.

[Chippiewill]

I guess you wouldn't have a clue what Snow Leopard was, would you?

It was only Bug Fixes....



Maybe they added the 9 year old OS for compatibility:eusa_wallDuuuuuuuuuuuur, it helps transition you *Removed*



Tell that to the millions of people who have had problems with it (yes, I just used font styles too!). You're wrong again. I've owned several Vista machines. Though compatibility with hardware is one issue, there are many issues. Application compatibility is terrible, Vista wasn't very stable, and it's bloody slow.SP2 Works, try it before you slam it. And it wasn't Vista's fault, part manufacturers didn't bother with drivers for some reason. However I have NEVER had a problem with vista.... EVER

Edited by Berch (Forum Moderator): Please do not insult other members.

[HotelUser]

It was only Bug Fixes....
Wrong again, my inexperienced friend: http://www.apple.com/macosx/

Even if it did fix bugs, bugs are annoying and should be fixed. If Microsoft shrugged off bugs like you did Windows users would be screwed.

SP2 Works, try it before you slam it. And it wasn't Vista's fault, part manufacturers didn't bother with drivers for some reason. However I have NEVER had a problem with vista.... EVER

First of all, I have used Windows Vista SP2 on my Compaq laptop. Funny, I didn't connect explorer freezing with DRIVER PROBLEMZ!!1

Also, you're saying, "yeah I can't game because the drivers are crap. I'll just sit here and wait until (or if) they fix them.....just sit here, and not use these applications I need to run because even though I paid $1000 for this machine I will wait it out a few months until these problems are fixed and I can use my computer again."

No. Sorry. Doesn't work for me. That's a fail.

You never had problems with Vista? Well I doubt it. Then again, I doubt you do anything serious on the computer anyway:rolleyes:.

[Chippiewill]

Why do you think snow leopard was half price? It was just bug fixes, and they are NOT features....

Also I do loads with my Computer TYVM!

You also quite obviously never used the RTM XP.... because Vista wasn't much worse than that.... Actually I have more bugs with XP than vista usually....



"yeah I can't game because the drivers are crap. I'll just sit here and wait until (or if) they fix them.....just sit here, and not use these applications I need to run because even though I paid $1000 for this machine I will wait it out a few months until these problems are fixed and I can use my computer again."

Pfft, for one, if you upgraded your computer to vista then your an idiot, two, as I said is was out of MS's control. It's all fixed now so deal with it...


First of all, I have used Windows Vista SP2 on my Compaq laptop. Funny, I didn't connect explorer freezing with DRIVER PROBLEMZ!!1

Windows doesn't always come with drivers, you may have to update them YOURSELF....

[Wootzeh]

First of all, I have used Windows Vista SP2 on my Compaq laptop. Funny, I didn't connect explorer freezing with DRIVER PROBLEMZ!!1

Also, you're saying, "yeah I can't game because the drivers are crap. I'll just sit here and wait until (or if) they fix them.....just sit here, and not use these applications I need to run because even though I paid $1000 for this machine I will wait it out a few months until these problems are fixed and I can use my computer again."

No. Sorry. Doesn't work for me. That's a fail.

You never had problems with Vista? Well I doubt it. Then again, I doubt you do anything serious on the computer anyway:rolleyes:.
There's something up with your computer then, vista is fine.

[HotelUser]

Why do you think snow leopard was half price? It was just bug fixes, and they are NOT features....
I cannot express how ignorant your claims are now. You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about now. You don't know much about Apple at all and you're making statements like that? And if you don't think those are features then no wonder you haven't had problems on Vista. You probably don't understand all of its components, and its functionality.

You also quite obviously never used the RTM XP.... because Vista wasn't much worse than that.... Actually I have more bugs with XP than vista usually....
Bull. All that needs to be said. You've embarrassed yourself enough with that ridiculous statement:).



Pfft, for one, if you upgraded your computer to vista then your an idiot, two, as I said is was out of MS's control. It's all fixed now so deal with it...
I have never and never will downgrade XP to Vista. OEM editions of Vista sucked, driver and software compatibility wise. It was absolutely ridiculous.



Windows doesn't always come with drivers, you may have to update them YOURSELF....
And on my aspire 9410 when I upgraded Vista drivers I got the friendly BSOD.



There's something up with your computer then, vista is fine.

Don't tell me, you're madly in love with Internet Explorer and you use Windows Media Center constantly;)?

[Wootzeh]

Yes I do. Why? :) Nice change of subject btw avoiding the main topic.

[Chippiewill]

I cannot express how ignorant your claims are now. You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about now. You don't know much about Apple at all and you're making statements like that? And if you don't think those are features then no wonder you haven't had problems on Vista. You probably don't understand all of its components, and its functionality.

I listen to enough Podcasts, tech shows I read around enough to know that the reason why it was cheaper was because they had nothing but bug fixes.


Bull. All that needs to be said. You've embarrassed yourself enough with that ridiculous statement:).

Er, no? I Probably worded it wrong...


I have never and never will downgrade XP to Vista.
Well you implied that you did, because every computer I have had which came with Vista WORKED, every person I know who had a computer which came with vista worked. Every report I have heard of XP->Vista failed...



OEM editions of Vista sucked, driver and software compatibility wise. It was absolutely ridiculous.
And on my aspire 9410 when I upgraded Vista drivers I got the friendly BSOD.
Yes, and we're talking about SP2...


Don't tell me, you're madly in love with Internet Explorer and you use Windows Media Center constantly;)?IE8 Rules, (Although I use FF as I can perfectly emulate it within FF), and media center is brilliant....

[Turbocom]

http://newmedia.funnyjunk.com/pictures/damn_process.gif
Reasons like that I find you rude, and ignorant. It shows you have so much time on your hands.


No, you're wrong. They should follow eachother in certain ways. Microsoft could release one version of Windows, Apple could get rid of the Apple tax. Two small examples.
That's how Microsoft is Microsoft. They have their own way to advertise, and sell - unlike apple.

If you think Microsoft offers more than OSX then you don't know much about operating systems at all. Maybe they added the 9 year old OS for compatibility:eusa_wall
Yes, that must be it. How could I be so blind. OH wait - you're wrong think of how much money it costs to business to re-teach all their staff how to use a new operating system. Don't you think if it's a new OS they would want to redo the software to make it run better? This way they don't have to they just install it hassle free. Using WINDOWS XP.



Tell that to the millions of people who have had problems with it (yes, I just used font styles too!). You're wrong again. I've owned several Vista machines. Though compatibility with hardware is one issue, there are many issues. Application compatibility is terrible, Vista wasn't very stable, and it's bloody slow.

It's imbecile people like yourself that never update the os that make it vulnerable for problems. Also, I never asked you how many Vista machines you had. This hardware problem you had, was it the same problem over multiple machines? Hm.. faulty hardware, certified for Windows Vista.. the list goes on and on. Your PC is only slow being you load so much crap on it - it can't even process anything.



And you've never owned or used OSX as your primary operating system. Hmm.... you're not taking sides without knowing anything about the alternative are you? Because that would be very childish.
Glad to see you've done your research by looking at previous threads of mine. If you did you would see that I actually have a Mac Mini and do use it when I want a change. I know quite a bit about Mac actually, so :eusa_danc guess what - you're wrong again.

Also, "Apple has run out of ideas?" I guess you wouldn't have a clue what Snow Leopard was, would you?

Apple has run out of ideas, Windows has reintroduced Windows by changing almost everything - Apple can't really change much up now can they? How much more can they change the interface? I do know what Snow leopard is, it finally has 64bit support. I await your response to this, and BTW you're a typical Canadian.

[HotelUser]

Yes I do. Why? :) Nice change of subject btw avoiding the main topic.

:O you use bad software, you terrible terrible person:@.


I listen to enough Podcasts, tech shows I read around enough to know that the reason why it was cheaper was because they had nothing but bug fixes.
Oh you listen to podcasts do you? How educated. You must know everything about OSX, forgive me for ever questioning your intelligence!!!!!!11


Er, no? I Probably worded it wrong...
Well you implied that you did, because every computer I have had which came with Vista WORKED, every person I know who had a computer which came with vista worked. Every report I have heard of XP->Vista failed...
I Have a very hard time believing that. I've seen opinions on both sides from a lot of people (some people know their stuff....erm....some people don't). That aside I form my own opinions based on my experience with that platform. Sure, I read articles and reviews; who doesn't, but when it comes down to making statements like you've made, I actually acquire a tad of experience before hand.


Yes, and we're talking about SP2...
IE8 Rules, (Although I use FF as I can perfectly emulate it within FF), and media center is brilliant....
IE does not rule. That's ridiculous. IE sucks. I've seen better browsers written in PHP-GTK. I've seen better browsers for Windows Mobile. I rather use Netscape Navigator 7.2 than IE8. IE is a complete and total fail. I rather stab out my eyes then watch IE attempt to befriend Javascript.


Reasons like that I find you rude, and ignorant. It shows you have so much time on your hands.
The first Google image link goes to a attempting to give a damn image. And I really don't care what people half way the world think of me, sorry;).



That's how Microsoft is Microsoft. They have their own way to advertise, and sell - unlike apple.
Oooohoo, love how you put big scarey apple in italic text there. Microsoft is Microsoft, and they are marketing geniuses. They've gotten really good at making the 5th best product a world standard.

Yes, that must be it. How could I be so blind. OH wait - you're wrong think of how much money it costs to business to re-teach all their staff how to use a new operating system. Don't you think if it's a new OS they would want to redo the software to make it run better? This way they don't have to they just install it hassle free. Using WINDOWS XP.

Wrong. If these people are so computer illiterate than how do you expect them to be able to set up Virtual XP. Also, since theres 1000000000 different versions of Windows (as usual), you need the most expensive version (as usual) to get the functionality/features you should get in all versions. So why would companies pay 2x the price for the Ultimate version to get XP, when Microsoft keeps extending XP's support anyways? (Unless you're implying that manufactures are going to send Ultimate on a majority of systems. Didn't happen with Vista; wont happen with Win7.)



It's imbecile people like yourself that never update the os that make it vulnerable for problems. Also, I never asked you how many Vista machines you had. This hardware problem you had, was it the same problem over multiple machines? Hm.. faulty hardware, certified for Windows Vista.. the list goes on and on. Your PC is only slow being you load so much crap on it - it can't even process anything.
Do you always infer ridiculous and stupid things about situations you don't know about? I've had four Vista machines actually, hardware issues got better, still not where I'd like them to be. As far as installing crap goes, I'm not some idiot who abuses limewire (I don't even use limewire or a P2P application on my Mac, actually, and that's rock solid UNIX with few viruses!). Have any other "interesting points" that you have exaggerated the crap out of to bring up?



Glad to see you've done your research by looking at previous threads of mine. If you did you would see that I actually have a Mac Mini and do use it when I want a change. I know quite a bit about Mac actually, so :eusa_danc guess what - you're wrong again.
LOL "I know quite a bit about Mac actually" LOL you sure do! You even spelt OSX correctly in that sentence!


Apple has run out of ideas, Windows has reintroduced Windows by changing almost everything -
ROFL. They sure have run out of ideas! There's only tons of new features in Snow Leopard. Shame:( (wait...which company stole the GUI and indexed computer searching again?)


Apple can't really change much up now can they? How much more can they change the interface?
You're right! It's perfect already!!!

I do know what Snow leopard is, it finally has 64bit support. I await your response to this,

Wrong. OSX was already 64bit, now the apps that come with it are all 64bit.

and BTW you're a typical Canadian.
An immature and pathetic (also entirely irrelevant statement) that was intended only to cause trolling and (I suppose) to provoke me? Oh noes, you're bias!

[Chippiewill]

Because a home user DOES NOT need buisness tools, and a buisness computer should not come with media centre FOR OBVIOUS REASONS... Mac is aimed at one and a half markets, home and freelance. Also the XP mode will have a very simple guide so they will be able to do that with EASE

Also saying that IE8 does not rule means that you are relying on a fad, Fact: IE is actually a decent browser and can render most sites fine
More Fact: IE can only not render 1% of the internet because it was poorly coded.
Fiction: IE cannot render any sites


ROFL. They sure have run out of ideas! There's only tons of new features in Snow Leopard. Shame:( (wait...which company stole the GUI and indexed computer searching again?)

Nope, look around the reason why snow was cheap was due to lack of actual features. Also they both steal off each other, it's called buisness


Oh you listen to podcasts do you? How educated. You must know everything about OSX, forgive me for ever questioning your intelligence!!!!!!11
Leo Laporte, every day :D

[Turbocom]

An immature and pathetic (also entirely irrelevant statement) that was intended only to cause trolling and (I suppose) to provoke me? Oh noes, you're bias!

Nah, I just call them when I see them. Btw off topic you from the East or west of Canada?

[Jaysun]

Stop the *****ing. The thread is about windows 7 prices not Apple vs Windows. Apple has Snow Leopard, fixes some bugs but also add and gives a lot of great features. Windows has Windows 7 which basically does the same thing. The GUI isn't important, W7 has the same taskbar and everything just different logo and a bit more shiny. SL doesn't have any UI changes apart from a few changes here and there.

ontopic:

Those prices are ridiculously high.

[Metric1]

I was on a website today and they had windows 7 pre-order for like half price!

[HotelUser]

Because a home user DOES NOT need buisness tools, and a buisness computer should not come with media centre FOR OBVIOUS REASONS... Mac is aimed at one and a half markets, home and freelance. Also the XP mode will have a very simple guide so they will be able to do that with EASE
A decent argument, however in the end it's just excuses. Sure, you can have different versions with different features, or you could just have one version with all the features. It's easier, more liked and more convenient.

Also saying that IE8 does not rule means that you are relying on a fad, Fact: IE is actually a decent browser and can render most sites fine
More Fact: IE can only not render 1% of the internet because it was poorly coded.
Fiction: IE cannot render any sites
Relying on a fad? I used to be a huge Microsoft fanboy. Of course I used Internet Explorer, and after a while I began to pull my hair out because of how slow it was, and how poor it rendered basically everything compared to Mozilla.



Nope, look around the reason why snow was cheap was due to lack of actual features. Also they both steal off each other, it's called buisness
Both steal from eachother, sure. If they didn't technology would suck. However, Microsoft is brutal and cold hearted with what and how much they steal.

Leo Laporte, every day :D
More of a Chris Prillo fan myself;)


Nah, I just call them when I see them. Btw off topic you from the East or west of Canada?

Refusing to say because I don't want any provincial-based insults:).

[Invent]

Does anyone know if MSDN Retail subscribers get Windows 7 for free lol?

[HD-Christopher]

Invent MSDN should have a copy of Windows 7 in it. But remember its only for evaluation only. But yea. Some people don't care about that.

[Invent]

Invent MSDN should have a copy of Windows 7 in it. But remember its only for evaluation only. But yea. Some people don't care about that.

Cool, I might finally have something to download from MSDN then :P.

[HD-Christopher]

What subscription do you have?

[Invent]

What subscription do you have?

No idea, haha.

In the My Account seciton it says:


SubscriptionType: Retail

So I assume I have a retail subscription :P.

[Chippiewill]

A decent argument, however in the end it's just excuses. Sure, you can have different versions with different features, or you could just have one version with all the features. It's easier, more liked and more convenient.

That's why they made ultimate :rolleyes:, however a 5 year old girl doesn't need bitlocker to password her pony pictures. If you feel you need all the features then go to Ultimate, basically having different versions saves everyone money.



Relying on a fad? I used to be a huge Microsoft fanboy. Of course I used Internet Explorer, and after a while I began to pull my hair out because of how slow it was, and how poor it rendered basically everything compared to Mozilla.

IE8 has fixed poor load times a bit....



Both steal from eachother, sure. If they didn't technology would suck. However, Microsoft is brutal and cold hearted with what and how much they steal.

-cough- who invented operating systems and universal software in general? (Microsoft)



More of a Chris Prillo fan myself;)

I prefer Leo Laporte because he is useless with Windows PCs and makes me seem a lot better :P. Although the person who helps him on the Windows show is good...

Edit: It's Paul Thurrot!

[HotelUser]

That's why they made ultimate :rolleyes:, however a 5 year old girl doesn't need bitlocker to password her pony pictures. If you feel you need all the features then go to Ultimate, basically having different versions saves everyone money.
LOOL you clearly didn't think that through. OSX has ONE version with ALL the features and it's CHEAPER than Vista/Windows 7. Therefore it saves you monies and gives more features!!!11


IE8 has fixed poor load times a bit....
Kinda. But not as much as I would of hoped.


-cough- who invented operating systems and universal software in general? (Microsoft)
Wrong. Microsoft began the whole licensing thing (which has become annoying). They did this after they stole the GUI and bought DOS (they didn't even make it; just bought it).


I prefer Leo Laporte because he is useless with Windows PCs and makes me seem a lot better :P. Although the person who helps him on the Windows show is good...

Edit: It's Paul Thurrot!
Might watch him abit. Prillo hasn't been on much since he announced his divorce with Ponzi:(

[Chippiewill]

LOOL you clearly didn't think that through. OSX has ONE version with ALL the features and it's CHEAPER than Vista/Windows 7. Therefore it saves you monies and gives more features!!!11

Yes but MS doesn't charge for an annual update, and there is a discount for upgrades and this time round it is uber cheap to buy win7 in europe with upgrade gone for eu... There was an entire 5 years in which MS didn't charge people for an OS update...



Kinda. But not as much as I would of hoped.

Yeh, I was just argueing for the sake of argueing at this point :P



Wrong. Microsoft began the whole licensing thing (which has become annoying). They did this after they stole the GUI and bought DOS (they didn't even make it; just bought it).

Nope, Bill gates came up with the first installable OS, he did buy DOS later on though. Also GUI was WAAAAAAY later... Before Bill Gates PC makers made their own OSes



Might watch him abit. Prillo hasn't been on much since he announced his divorce with Ponzi:(
'This is Twit' hehe, their podcast intros are funny

[Axed]

I have Windows Se7en Ultimate, and I've had it for nearly two months now. At first, it seems a lot better, a lot faster, but definately not worth the price. Btw, there's near enough no differnce to the packages, so you're best purchasing Home Premium and downloading anti-virus software like AVG, though I recommend Avast!

[HotelUser]

Yes but MS doesn't charge for an annual update, and there is a discount for upgrades and this time round it is uber cheap to buy win7 in europe with upgrade gone for eu... There was an entire 5 years in which MS didn't charge people for an OS update...
if you're refering to how Apple is charging for an "Os update" you're kind of incorrect. First off Windows 7 is a software update for Windows. OSX Snow Leopard is a software Update for OSX.


Yeh, I was just argueing for the sake of argueing at this point :P


Nope, Bill gates came up with the first installable OS, he did buy DOS later on though. Also GUI was WAAAAAAY later... Before Bill Gates PC makers made their own OSes
No. Bill Gate's only got a meeting with IBM because of connections through his mother. At the meeting he told them he would sell them an operating system to compete with Apple. What he didn't tell them was that he didn't have an operating system and that by licensing his operating system and retaining ownership he would be at the advantage. He then bought DOS. He also convinced Apple that Microsoft wasn't a threat and he stole the GUI from Apple prototypes. Glad he did, because no technology company should have a majority. Apple is expensive enough already, imagine how expensive they would be with a majority!

Also, I could be wrong here, but wasn't CP/M installable?

[Chippiewill]

if you're refering to how Apple is charging for an "Os update" you're kind of incorrect. First off Windows 7 is a software update for Windows. OSX Snow Leopard is a software Update for OSX.

Yes but apple release annual OS updates which they charge for, MS brings a new version out every fex years...


No. Bill Gate's only got a meeting with IBM because of connections through his mother. At the meeting he told them he would sell them an operating system to compete with Apple. What he didn't tell them was that he didn't have an operating system and that by licensing his operating system and retaining ownership he would be at the advantage. He then bought DOS. He also convinced Apple that Microsoft wasn't a threat and he stole the GUI from Apple prototypes. Glad he did, because no technology company should have a majority. Apple is expensive enough already, imagine how expensive they would be with a majority!

Also, I could be wrong here, but wasn't CP/M installable?

Nah, I remember that BBC program, Sir Alan Sugar mentioned that Bill gates invented the installable operating system (Previous versions always came with the computer itself)

[GommeInc]

Don't tell me, you're madly in love with Internet Explorer and you use Windows Media Center constantly;)?
What has that got to do with Windows Vista? Also, before you bring in the common sense argument, may I remind you of that argument myself and Jewish Bear basically led to wiping the floor with you? The one where OS/X has fewer advantages over Windows because more is available to use?

I've understood your argument tactics, your next response would of been "But there are better things made for Macs" - before you continue down that dead-end path, may I remind you of Adobe products which are released for both machines?

I had a play around with a Mac in Canterbury in their Apple Store with Mentor and his friend, both computing nerds :P Never again shall I be tempted by the siren call of tacky computers - if you have to drag files into the trash equivilent of Apple Macs by default then they've lost me. Seriously, we made loads of folders and they ALL had to be dragged and dropped WHERE'S THE DELETE KEY AND RICHT CLICK DELETE?!. What a lame system, not even Linux does that by default :/ Also, I hate American keyboards, do they seriously all come like that?

Also, Apple wouldn't exist if it wasn't for Microsoft - nothing like a superior companing bailing out a weak company and their grovelling Religious Leader, Jobs. The video is so cringe worthy on YouTube where Jobs gets boo'd at. Microsoft should of let them die.

[HotelUser]

Yes but apple release annual OS updates which they charge for, MS brings a new version out every fex years...
They're not always annually. Leopard was 2007. Snow Leopard 2009. Plus, OSX is cheaper.


What has that got to do with Windows Vista? I was relating it with him being a Microsoft fanboy.
Also, before you bring in the common sense argument, may I remind you of that argument myself and Jewish Bear basically led to wiping the floor with you?
Wiping the floor with me? That certainly never happened. I remember making some very good points, and then JB came in, rather cocky, and made one or two posts, then the thread got locked, without the discussion advancing. There was no "wiping the floor". And I don't remember you making any reasonable points at all tbh.
I've understood your argument tactics, your next response would of been "But there are better things made for Macs" - before you continue down that dead-end path, may I remind you of Adobe products which are released for both machines?
Slow down there buddy. There's not better apps for OSX, there's just different apps. I like OSX for the operating system. I don't care about the apps. There are good Windows apps and good OSX apps. You clearly don't understand my points, if you don't even know what I'm making points about. I'm not some total anti-microsoft hater. There are flaws with Microsoft and Apple. Microsoft's flaws have just:
1. Affected me more
2. Annoyed me more
3. IMO Microsoft has made more mistakes
You totally missed out where I said Apple was too expensive, didn't you:eusa_wall?

I had a play around with a Mac in Canterbury in their Apple Store with Mentor and his friend, both computing nerds :P Never again shall I be tempted by the siren call of tacky computers - if you have to drag files into the trash equivilent of Apple Macs by default then they've lost me. Seriously, we made loads of folders and they ALL had to be dragged and dropped WHERE'S THE DELETE KEY AND RICHT CLICK DELETE?!. What a lame system, not even Linux does that by default :/ Also, I hate American keyboards, do they seriously all come like that?
Your point proves your ignorance. You say you used a Mac before, therefore implying that the experience from this ONE time which was probably a duration of 10 minutes should be satisfactory to justify your claims against Apple, then you say you couldn't delete a folder. Well, don't hate on the Operating System if you're not smart enough to use it, silly!
http://macmee.com/screenshots/Picture_1-20090628-210813.png
If you want more OSX tutorials you'll have to pay me some Apple Tax amounts of cash.


Seriously, you assume you know everything about me or something, and can assume what I'm going to say. All people in this thread had to do was give me a valid reason why they used Windows and didn't want to use OSX,
"I game way to much, and OSX wouldn't be compatible"
"I can't afford the Apple tax / hardware ripoff"
"I've been using Windows my entire life and I can't be bothered/don't care to switch now"
Three good reasons that one may use Windows, yet the people in this thread have been saying stuff like:
"Apple steals and has run out of features!!1"
"I've never used a Mac but windows must have more features!"
"Vista is fine!" (controversial, but I do not think Vista is fine)

Of course I'm going to make responses to these statements, because they're not true. There are valid reasons someone may choose to use either OS. If I see valid reasons being made then I'm not going to say anything.

Something I've seen in this thread is people who have not actually owned or used OSX are ripping it up and Apple, because I'm ripping on Windows Vista / Windows 7 and they want to get back by insulting OSX, even though they don't have any experience with it. If I were them I'd probably do it too (I've seen you do it before too, if I'm not mistaken, with that lame "I COULDNT DELETE STUFFZ" excuse). These people may think they sound what they know what they're talking about, but it is painfully obvious they lack experience with the OS.

By the way, you can't say even linux doesn't do this. There are many linux distros. I bet you can find one with a crappy/non-existent file deleting feature.

[GommeInc]

I was relating it with him being a Microsoft fanboy.
How does that make him a fanboy? He said:

"There's something up with your computer then, vista is fine."

Where did you get the conclusion "You must love IE8 and Windows Media Centre", because there is no way you got that conclusion from that... You must be putting words into people's mouths.... And like Wootzeh said, you were changing the topic like you do when you get blasted by everyone from all corners for raging on about you and your hate for Vista :rolleyes:


Wiping the floor with me? That certainly never happened. I remember making some very good points, and then JB came in, rather cocky, and made one or two posts, then the thread got locked, without the discussion advancing. There was no "wiping the floor". And I don't remember you making any reasonable points at all tbh.
Of course you will say I didn't make any good comments, it's what you do when losing an argument... It is common sense that Windows has more available for it than OS X, yet you seemed to of denied it constantly giving half-baked comments like "You don't know what there is available" which lacks proof. The common "game" argument is one of them, which again you try to steer around saying "not everyone games" when the primary argument was "more is available FULL STOP" not "loads are available, but it depends if you use it or not".

It's like the virus argument too, which you lost - "If you get viruses it is your own fault" which revolves around the common argument "less viruses are available to Mac users than Windows users" when it is common sense and incredibly simple to avoid viruses - a dead-end argument for Mac users alike who think the lack of viruses on a Mac machine is a God send, when like you agreed, it is your fault for getting them - added security or not, even though Vista itself is pretty solid and viruses mean very little - they can be removed with ease. You fell into the trap, as Jordy said in that thread, you agreed that getting STIs is your fault, so you agreed yet for some reason, thought it wise to argue against the case when arguing for the case was pointless.

Also, how can you say Microsoft has made more mistakes when Apple have verged on bankruptcy and had to bailed out by the competition? Microsoft make small mistakes, true, but Apple make horribly bad mistakes, and bankruptcy is the main one.


Your point proves your ignorance. You say you used a Mac before, therefore implying that the experience from this ONE time which was probably a duration of 10 minutes should be satisfactory to justify your claims against Apple, then you say you couldn't delete a folder. Well, don't hate on the Operating System if you're not smart enough to use it, silly!
http://macmee.com/screenshots/Picture_1-20090628-210813.png
If you want more OSX tutorials you'll have to pay me some Apple Tax amounts of cash.
Ah yes, the assumptions. Apparently I've used Mac OS X only the once! :O! I've used it dozens of times, it's not hard to learn the ins and outs of basic things, but with a Mac the most simple of tasks don't exist, like a delete key and on the Mac equivilent to a desktop, there was no right click > Move to Trash, there was simply not an option other than to drag and drop. I like how you again make a post clearly there to cause yet more irritation between you and, well, everyone by adding that little bit of sarcasm in ;)


Seriously, you assume you know everything about me or something, and can assume what I'm going to say. All people in this thread had to do was give me a valid reason why they used Windows and didn't want to use OSX,
"I game way to much, and OSX wouldn't be compatible"
"I can't afford the Apple tax / hardware ripoff"
"I've been using Windows my entire life and I can't be bothered/don't care to switch now"
Three good reasons that one may use Windows, yet the people in this thread have been saying stuff like:
"Apple steals and has run out of features!!1"
"I've never used a Mac but windows must have more features!"
"Vista is fine!" (controversial, but I do not think Vista is fine)
Why do they need to give YOU a reason? The only reason you seem to come into these threads is to troll :/ Saying things like this:

"Anyways, these expensive prices upset me (along with the usual crappy multiple version selection)."

Seriously, everyone is aware when they see your name in a Microsoft thread that you're there to give a worn out argument about why you hate Vista and Microsoft, saying things like the above, which was the first bit of relevance to the thread :/ And even so, what usually crappy multiple version selection? Vista is still a bargain lined up next to the cost of a new Mac machine, so I don't think arguments for "£10 for Leopard when Windows 7 Home Prem is £50 more for an upgrade or £149.99" are relevant when, like you keep babbling, are both different Operating Systems - What PCs charge for the OS (which is rumoured to be released for cheap anyway), they make up for in cheap, powerful parts which make up a pretty good computer.

So you bring it on yourself to get ripped up by everyone, because you rip them up for no reason with silly little comments that can only be defined as trolling, because you make stupid arguments that are there purely to cause bigger arguments which there are no right or wrong answers too, just opinions chucked around which you seem to not understand exist, even though your opinions are just as dumb as everyone elses.


Of course I'm going to make responses to these statements, because they're not true. There are valid reasons someone may choose to use either OS. If I see valid reasons being made then I'm not going to say anything.
Most of them are opinion, if someone says "Vista is fine" then leave them for goodness sake :/ Just because you got left at the aisle by Vista doesn't mean others will be :/ And if people think because there is more available for Vista (which there is), why argue about that when all you do is rant at them causing an uncivilised argument? Give examples, not opinionated crap. You also comment on the valid reasons, which is the common sense argument that more is available to a PC than a Mac - why else do you think Apple Stores, including the online one, lack so much while places like eBuyer, PC World and so on have so much stuff for the PC? Explain that - also games which you hate having mentioned but deem it invalid (because it's the only answer you can give), programs etc etc :/



Something I've seen in this thread is people who have not actually owned or used OSX are ripping it up and Apple, because I'm ripping on Windows Vista / Windows 7 and they want to get back by insulting OSX, even though they don't have any experience with it. If I were them I'd probably do it too (I've seen you do it before too, if I'm not mistaken, with that lame "I COULDNT DELETE STUFFZ" excuse). These people may think they sound what they know what they're talking about, but it is painfully obvious they lack experience with the OS.
Maybe it's the fact you make unnecessary comments for NO reason, like the 3 different versions of Windows 7 and lack the thinkings skills of why 3 different versions exist. :rolleyes: It's not them throwing the first punch, it. is. YOU ;)

I think that's all in check - if not, I'll come back in the morning :)

[Turbocom]

Refusing to say because I don't want any provincial-based insults:).

Quebec or Manitoba, and if you are from Quebec split off already because (us) below you are starting to get really annoyed.

Second of all, that's a valid point GommeInc brings up. Microsoft had to bail the hell out of Apple, IE, JAVA, OFFFICE!!! Come-on Microsoft still owns a sliver of that company. Who knows maybe if that happened again - or they could go back in time. Maybe they wouldn't help.

I'm going to back out of this now, because the entire thread has changed topics.

[HotelUser]

How does that make him a fanboy? He said:

"There's something up with your computer then, vista is fine."

Where did you get the conclusion "You must love IE8 and Windows Media Centre", because there is no way you got that conclusion from that... You must be putting words into people's mouths.... And like Wootzeh said, you were changing the topic like you do when you get blasted by everyone from all corners for raging on about you and your hate for Vista :rolleyes:
You are terrible at reading into what people are saying. Vista is not fine, Vista is far from fine. When he said Vista is fine I posted saying I bet he uses IE and Media Center too meaning I bet he's in love with all of Microsoft's products. He got it, I don't know why you didn't:eusa_wall:eusa_wall:eusa_wall:eusa_wall:eus a_wall


Of course you will say I didn't make any good comments, it's what you do when losing an argument...
and of course with no referee you would say you won the argument (even though going back to that thread, you were non-existent).

It is common sense that Windows has more available for it than OS X, yet you seemed to of denied it constantly giving half-baked comments like "You don't know what there is available" which lacks proof. The common "game" argument is one of them, which again you try to steer around saying "not everyone games" when the primary argument was "more is available FULL STOP" not "loads are available, but it depends if you use it or not".
What are you on about? Are you making things up that I "said"? Or are you do you not understand what I mean? There's a difference between a Mac and OSX. My statement was, OSX has less software (obviously, there's less users so there's less developers). However, the Mac is still capable of running as much and more than Windows, because PPC is gone, and Intel is in. That's technically speaking. Obviously there's enough software to satisfy myself, and I'm not a gaming nut, so the lack of gaming doesn't really affect me (plus I have an XP machine I can game on if I want). C'mon, you used a Mac for 10 minutes in a store, you have experience!!! you should know all of this!!!!!11


It's like the virus argument too, which you lost (I didn't know it was a contest:O and I won;))- "If you get viruses it is your own fault" which revolves around the common argument "less viruses are available to Mac users than Windows users" when it is common sense and incredibly simple to avoid viruses -
Less viruses is very convenient. Sure they're easy to avoid, but if it's SO easy, then why are people still getting viruses? Hmm :eusa_wall


a dead-end argument for Mac users alike who think the lack of viruses on a Mac machine is a God send, when like you agreed, it is your fault for getting them - added security or not, even though Vista itself is pretty solid and viruses mean very little - they can be removed with ease.
Wrong. Invalid. Untrue. Fail. Vista is not "pretty solid". There's loads of viruses out there. Antivirus is NOT god, it's pretty good but doesn't do a 100% perfect job at finding and removing all viruses from your machine.

You fell into the trap, as Jordy said in that thread, you agreed that getting STIs is your fault, so you agreed yet for some reason, thought it wise to argue against the case when arguing for the case was pointless.
My initial statement was getting an STI is your own fault, but wouldn't it be convenient not to worry about getting them at all. Of course I am going to say it's your own fault, if it was part of the expression I said in the first place. Did you even read that thread? Did you comprehend it:S

Also, how can you say Microsoft has made more mistakes when Apple have verged on bankruptcy and had to bailed out by the competition? Microsoft make small mistakes, true, but Apple make horribly bad mistakes, and bankruptcy is the main one.
I can see where you're coming from with the bailout, so all I'll say is: Microsoft has made more mistakes, but Apple's were more idiotic. Look at it this way: Apple almost went bankrupt, and Microsoft saved them. Microsoft had to save them. What was the reason Microsoft had to save them? Anyways, Jobs is back now and is doing a good job:D.


Ah yes, the assumptions.That's quite contradictory of you to say, you make tons and tons of assumptions.
Apparently I've used Mac OS X only the once! :O! I've used it dozens of times, Then I feel bad for you that you couldn't even delete a folder:(
it's not hard to learn the ins and outs of basic things, but with a Mac the most simple of tasks don't exist, like a delete key and on the Mac equivilent to a desktop, there was no right click > Move to Trash, there was simply not an option other than to drag and drop.You must have missed my screenshot where there was clearly a delete button ?
I like how you again make a post clearly there to cause yet more irritation between you and, well, everyone by adding that little bit of sarcasm in ;)
Where is the sarcasm in showing you there is a trash button. Can another OSX user show this guy there is a delete button?


Why do they need to give YOU a reason? The only reason you seem to come into these threads is to troll :/ Saying things like this:
LOL. And you're not trolling now:eusa_wall:eusa_wall? And they need to "give ME a reason because they are replying and thus talking to ME."

"Anyways, these expensive prices upset me (along with the usual crappy multiple version selection)."
Once again you twist it to make me look all terrible. I also said Macs are too expensive. I'll say it again: Macs are too expensive!
MACS ARE TOO EXPENSIVE!

Seriously, everyone is aware when they see your name in a Microsoft thread that you're there to give a worn out argument about why you hate Vista I do hate Vista, many people hate Vista. You have never replied giving me valid reasons (or any reasons) why my reasons for hating Vista are invalid. You just go off saying I said all this stuff I didn't say, actually.
and Microsoft,I like Microsoft. They make me angry sometimes, but I had a lot of fun times with XP and 2k, and even 98.
saying things like the above, which was the first bit of relevance to the thread :/
Speaking of relevance to the thread:rolleyes:
And even so, what usually crappy multiple version selection? Vista is still a bargain lined up next to the cost of a new Mac machine, so I don't think arguments for "£10 for Leopard when Windows 7 Home Prem is £50 more for an upgrade or £149.99" are relevant when, like you keep babbling, are both different Operating Systems
Once again (like for the 8th time or something) Macs are overpriced. Their operating system is not. Funny how I can say Macs are overpriced and not get a response. But when I say precious Windows is too much it's the end of the world! It's not my fault Apple software is so cheap and awesome ;).

- What PCs charge for the OS (which is rumoured to be released for cheap anyway), they make up for in cheap, powerful parts which make up a pretty good computer.
Once again, I'll say something you should have seen in the other thread you like to missquote so much: PCs subtract Vista are a bargain.

So you bring it on yourself to get ripped up by everyone, because you rip them up for no reason with silly little comments that can only be defined as trolling, because you make stupid arguments that are there purely to cause bigger arguments which there are no right or wrong answers too, just opinions chucked around which you seem to not understand exist, even though your opinions are just as dumb as everyone elses.
1. You're not everyone.
2. My little silly comments beat up your littler sillier comments.
3. You're trolling a lot.
4. This thread was almost argument dry before you came to the rescue, so I think you're causing the "bigger arguments".



Most of them are opinion, if someone says "Vista is fine" then leave them for goodness sake :/ Just because you got left at the aisle by Vista doesn't mean others will be :/ And if people think because there is more available for Vista (which there is) (Link and quote, as well as posts leading up to said quote, of where I said elsewise, please?), why argue about that when all you do is rant at them causing an uncivilised argument? Give examples, not opinionated crap.
Same from you, mr. THE EASIEST THINGS ON THE MAC CANNOT BE DONE!!!11

You also comment on the valid reasons, which is the common sense argument that more is available to a PC than a Mac - why else do you think Apple Stores, including the online one, lack so much while places like eBuyer, PC World and so on have so much stuff for the PC? Explain that - also games which you hate having mentioned but deem it invalid (because it's the only answer you can give), programs etc etc :/
What is with you? This is like the 5th time you've referenced me saying there's more available for OSX. Seriously, you misquoting me and then getting mad at me because of your misquote is seriously hurting my feelings:(.



Maybe it's the fact you make unnecessary comments for NO reason, like the 3 different versions of Windows 7 and lack the thinkings skills of why 3 different versions exist. :rolleyes: It's not them throwing the first punch, it. is. YOU ;)
Mmhm, and I'm the only one in the thread making unnecessary comments:eusa_wall

I think that's all in check - if not, I'll come back in the morning :)
I have to wait:@


Anyways, I think what's happening here is that you're miss interrupting or not remembering what's been said in another thread, and then posting it here and getting angry about it. You probably mean well, I would hope.



Quebec or Manitoba, and if you are from Quebec split off already because (us) below you are starting to get really annoyed.

Second of all, that's a valid point GommeInc brings up. Microsoft had to bail the hell out of Apple, IE, JAVA, OFFFICE!!! Come-on Microsoft still owns a sliver of that company. Who knows maybe if that happened again - or they could go back in time. Maybe they wouldn't help.

I'm going to back out of this now, because the entire thread has changed topics.

Oh heavens no, I am not in Quebec. I'd like them to separate too, actually, so we can finally stop hearing their moaning. I didn't know I was talking to another Canadian here! Can't remember if you called me the typical Canadian, but if you did and are Canadian then I'm sorry, you can call me a typical Canadian:D.

[Recursion]

------

Holy crap, that has to be the longest post on this forum ever.

Guys, it's down to personal preference, just quit it.

[nvrspk4]

Thread closed by your friendly local IE user.