Mentor
30-06-2009, 05:45 PM
Hello, i'm off on holiday tomorrow and starting a new full time job after so my time to waste foruming is going to disappear pretty swiftly. Before this though i wanted to leave a nice juicy debate somewhat inspired by the set of documentary that have appeared on tv.
Whats is it?
The glass ceiling is the name give to the pay gap found between the genders in most countries today. To many it seems initially obvious that the glass ceiling does exist. Figures such as the fact that women in full time jobs earn 17% (source (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/4753360.stm)) less than males (75.3 cents on the dollar in the US according to the Census Bureau in 2003)
This difference in pay between the genders is commonly put down as a form of sexism within the work place, when men are promoted ahead of women and/or paid more for the same work (the glass ceiling)
How could you not believe in it?
A number of studies and experts have stated that this "glass ceiling effect" may not actually exist at all, instead attributing the pay gap to a number of additional factors. For example.
When choose jobs almost all men will select the money they are paid as the most important factor. Women on the other hand rate it much lower and select things such as job satisfaction, supportive supervisors and convenient working hours and helpfulness towards society as more important. (source) (http://books.google.com/books?id=NtaQMZX5Hk0C&pg=PA296&lpg=PA296&hl=en&ei=5EZKSsDJDZWsjAfAt_Fj&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1)
Given the above the fact that many women are selecting lower payed public sector jobs, over the higher paid private sector jobs is actually unsurprising. As is the fact theres a significant pay gap involved. Its also unsurprising that the higher paid private sector jobs are mostly dominated by men.
This explanation, that women are actually choosing to be paid less, conflicts with the notion of a glass ceiling, which attributes the pay gap purely to sexism.
A flip side of this is though that women often enjoy there jobs far more than there mail counterparts, report less stress and are far less likely to work jobs they do not enjoy.
Men on the other often do not enjoy their work and are very stressed. But believe this is worth it for the additional money they make.
Which can push the previous point further in that, men are indeed working for the higher pay they often get, and thus are deserving of it.
Its important here to note, these are generalizations, some women do go for the better paid jobs and thus take home the higher wages as a result.
Some additional statistics based of i believe a 1000 people done by channel 4 (unable to source atm)
Men are far more likely to ask for promotions within the careers
Men think promotion prospects are more important than women do, when choosing a job.
Many women still stop working when they have children and after coming back toward, up to a year or two later earn less than men. Although its important to note, the men have spent the last year or two progressing with there career where the woman has not, so having a higher pay because there career has progressed a few years ahead isnt actually in any way surprising or unexpected.
And finally, what i think and hopefully people will ether disagree/agree or add to is:
Based on the above, i personally do not think the glass ceiling, at least in terms of the gender pay gap, truly exists. The gender pay gap does, but it is not actually a bad thing. Theres also a big job satisfaction gap that goes in the opposite direction. If people choose a job to earn money, they will earn more. if they choose it because they enjoy it, they'll earn less. Women are chooseing jobs they enjoy and men jobs that pay well, thus the pay gap.
So i don't think any form of discrimination is really take place in most cases now days and that the pay gap is simply a matter of differing priority's.
Again i want to point out this is a generalization, and there are plenty of people who break the mold and do not obay this average :)
Whats is it?
The glass ceiling is the name give to the pay gap found between the genders in most countries today. To many it seems initially obvious that the glass ceiling does exist. Figures such as the fact that women in full time jobs earn 17% (source (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/4753360.stm)) less than males (75.3 cents on the dollar in the US according to the Census Bureau in 2003)
This difference in pay between the genders is commonly put down as a form of sexism within the work place, when men are promoted ahead of women and/or paid more for the same work (the glass ceiling)
How could you not believe in it?
A number of studies and experts have stated that this "glass ceiling effect" may not actually exist at all, instead attributing the pay gap to a number of additional factors. For example.
When choose jobs almost all men will select the money they are paid as the most important factor. Women on the other hand rate it much lower and select things such as job satisfaction, supportive supervisors and convenient working hours and helpfulness towards society as more important. (source) (http://books.google.com/books?id=NtaQMZX5Hk0C&pg=PA296&lpg=PA296&hl=en&ei=5EZKSsDJDZWsjAfAt_Fj&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1)
Given the above the fact that many women are selecting lower payed public sector jobs, over the higher paid private sector jobs is actually unsurprising. As is the fact theres a significant pay gap involved. Its also unsurprising that the higher paid private sector jobs are mostly dominated by men.
This explanation, that women are actually choosing to be paid less, conflicts with the notion of a glass ceiling, which attributes the pay gap purely to sexism.
A flip side of this is though that women often enjoy there jobs far more than there mail counterparts, report less stress and are far less likely to work jobs they do not enjoy.
Men on the other often do not enjoy their work and are very stressed. But believe this is worth it for the additional money they make.
Which can push the previous point further in that, men are indeed working for the higher pay they often get, and thus are deserving of it.
Its important here to note, these are generalizations, some women do go for the better paid jobs and thus take home the higher wages as a result.
Some additional statistics based of i believe a 1000 people done by channel 4 (unable to source atm)
Men are far more likely to ask for promotions within the careers
Men think promotion prospects are more important than women do, when choosing a job.
Many women still stop working when they have children and after coming back toward, up to a year or two later earn less than men. Although its important to note, the men have spent the last year or two progressing with there career where the woman has not, so having a higher pay because there career has progressed a few years ahead isnt actually in any way surprising or unexpected.
And finally, what i think and hopefully people will ether disagree/agree or add to is:
Based on the above, i personally do not think the glass ceiling, at least in terms of the gender pay gap, truly exists. The gender pay gap does, but it is not actually a bad thing. Theres also a big job satisfaction gap that goes in the opposite direction. If people choose a job to earn money, they will earn more. if they choose it because they enjoy it, they'll earn less. Women are chooseing jobs they enjoy and men jobs that pay well, thus the pay gap.
So i don't think any form of discrimination is really take place in most cases now days and that the pay gap is simply a matter of differing priority's.
Again i want to point out this is a generalization, and there are plenty of people who break the mold and do not obay this average :)