Removal of reversed infractions

[Immenseman]

That when you get warnings/infractions reversed they should be removed from your account totally. They are reversed because they are wrong and there has been an error of judgement by a (Super) Moderator. I don't mind that as much because you are able to get them reversed if they're genuinely unfair.

Since the turn of the year I have had seven reversed infractions/warning. Around like half of mine are reversed, not quit half I don't think but around that number, 40% odd.

So when a Super Moderator looks at my behaviour record they see almost 4 full pages of previous infractions that have been placed on my account. It'll be the same for everyone else, not just me. However, if all the reversed ones were removed, seeing as they are unfair I would have 2 pages and then just one on the 3rd. Which is like 2.2 rather than 3.8.

I'm not all that bothered but I don't think they should be left as black marks on our account when they were unfair in the first place. I know that moderators wouldn't take them into consideration as such but when they see 4 pages they will jump to conclusions rather than looking at the whole story, which has happened in my case and will happen with others too.

Obviously, I don't know if this can be done because if you have to go through them manually then I don't expect them to be done because that's time consuming and that time could be better spent. It isn't really detrimental on my account, I just feel that if a moderator saw a user had so many pages a decision would already be made in their head.

Just a thought really.

[mat64]

Don't they remove all expired/reversed infractions every year anyway? Plus I'd imagine that reversed infractions need to be left on record as part of evaluating the moderators that gave them?

[Immenseman]

Nope, they've cleared them out once, I think. Yeah, good point about the evaluation of moderators, how often are moderation reports produced? Surely, they could be removed after they've been written. I have a reversed infraction from January, I assume they're done more regularly than that :P

[lick]

Same, i received three infractions from a moderator and when i showed there manager he called them pathetic but when on holiday and Jin ended up removing them because even he could see that they were given out of hatred and not because i broke the rules

I also have a few other reversed ones from this mod and others from a few other mods i think.

I don't see the point in us been stuck with them because the moderator made a bad choice, we didn't they did.

[Nixt]

I could be wrong but I think that in order to remove reversed infractions we have to go through and manually delete each and every one. This is very time consuming however I wouldn't necessarily rule it out as I think you make a fair point. Technically reversed infractions do not count against you at all but I can understand the bias that may result from seeing 4 / 5 / 6 etc pages of Infractions when in fact only half of those are valid. However, expired warnings or infractions will remain on your profile as although they don't officially count towards any action taken against you they still need to be kept for future reference.

[lick]

I dont mind expired ones staying but i dont see why reversed ones should stay when it was proven that no rule was broken.

edit - i have 7 reversed ones, thats almost 2 pages :P

[Immenseman]

Same, i received three infractions from a moderator and when i showed there manager he called them pathetic but when on holiday and Jin ended up removing them because even he could see that they were given out of hatred and not because i broke the rules

I also have a few other reversed ones from this mod and others from a few other mods i think.

I don't see the point in us been stuck with them because the moderator made a bad choice, we didn't they did.

Yeah, due to others mistakes and errors in judgement we're the ones who have to put up with it for months. I know they don't make the mistakes purposefully but it is annoying for the above reasons.


I could be wrong but I think that in order to remove reversed infractions we have to go through and manually delete each and every one. This is very time consuming however I wouldn't necessarily rule it out as I think you make a fair point. Technically reversed infractions do not count against you at all but I can understand the bias that may result from seeing 4 / 5 / 6 etc pages of Infractions when in fact only half of those are valid. However, expired warnings or infractions will remain on your profile as although they don't officially count towards any action taken against you they still need to be kept for future reference.

If that is the official line then I obviously don't expect anyone to spend days doing that because I understand and respect that the time could be spent else where a lot more constructively. However, if that isn't the official line them I'm glad to see you'd be willing to look into it.

Or maybe when the SMOD reverses it they could delete it? It would be just as time consuming would it not or do they not have the power to do so? I think that would make sense though. Rather than reverse they could just delete - seeing as the infraction/warning isn't fair.

I don't expect expired ones to be removed because they are there for a reason, I didn't ask that because I know that already. I still think they should be removed after a certain time but that's a debate for another day. :P

[Wootzeh]

:eusa_whis

There are two main reasons reversed/old warnings aren't removed. First of all, the labor involved in removing them is well...alot. Every single one has to be deleted by hand, it took us 1-2 weeks to do it last time around, and someone had to sit deleting them.

Second of all yes they are necessary for moderator reports - mostly to see how many reversed infractions a moderator has so in fact them staying helps the community - not the moderator.

Regardless, you have to switch to another tab to see infractions anyway. So its not like it just sits there staring you in the face - its hidden away unless you want to see it.

this post may ring a bell. (http://www.habboxforum.com/showpost.php?p=5553869&postcount=41)

[Dave,]

When I used to moderate on other forums any user that had been disciplined I'd read through their history to make sure anything I was doing was fair. Whether they'd need additional punishment or were being made staff. Any good moderator should take the time to do so otherwise things become biased.

[Yoshimitsui]

I would suggest they are kept until a reset date is made for everyone to have them wiped or a thread where users can post to have them removed, as they do have to be manually deleted one by one.

Just to add to that it can only be done by administrators.

[Immenseman]

Lmao Adam, that was about old infractions/warnings in general this is the ones where mistakes have been made by the moderation team which unfortunately as me and mwah have highlighted isn't all that rare. We've both had 7 reversed each and his account is only from May 2009, that's pretty dire.

I think the labour could be overcome by when Super Moderators reverse the infraction in the "Report Unfair Infraction" thread rather than reversing it they delete it. That's the same amount of work and if that is indeed possible, it'll be the issue resolved. I'm not sure what would happen with old reversed ones mind you. Maybe they could stay with this new system implemented.

[e5]

I agree. We shouldn't have to see previously reversed infraction that were given wrongly in the first place on our profiles. I have one, and i'm not liking it there when I shouldn't have got it in the first place anyway.

[Immenseman]

If it can only be done by Admins can it not be altered so SMODs can delete infractions/warnings too? If not, fair enough. End of discussion if that is the case.

[Suspective]

I was just about to say that, but you beat me to it.
Maybe you should be able to request your Reversed Infractions to be removed, however stupid that sounds. And Admins can have a look at the thread when they have a chance.

Its a weird idea for a thread, but it could suit the job.

[Immenseman]

Yeah, but personally I'm not sure it should be given to administrators to do. They have enough on their plates as it is in my opinion. If super mods can have their permissions altered so they can deleted reversed infraction/warnings then it'd be more appropriate.

[buttons]

Yeah I have 7 reversed ones, 3 of them were issued at the same time and were reversed straight away without me complaining because they made a mistake. If that was to happen to someone who generally doesn't break the rules then it would still add pages to their infractions tab and it'll look like they have more than they actually do because they were issued in the first place :S They'd have to have them there until they all get deleted which I don't think happens much or until they do get banned. You wouldn't need a reversed infractions thread, once they've been reversed by a Smod then that smod should be allowed to delete the infraction, it shouldn't be limited to just admins because it's pretty much just the same as reversing, it shouldn't be on your account as a constant reminder. I reckon mods might just look at the pages of infractions you have (if they can) and totally overlook the rest you may have inbetween which could contain loads of reversed ones which yeah, wouldn't be very fair. If you start deleting them as soon as they're reversed it'll waste less time later on when it's decided to delete each and every one in one time set but yeah I don't like mine and want rid of them now :@

[Yoshimitsui]

The only reason it is limited to admins is simply because you need access permissions in the admin control panel to do it.

[lick]

I sure there is someone who they can trust and hire to do this?

[Immenseman]

I don't think a new person should be hired, not really worth to hire a new person just to do this. Unless there was a thread and the admins just took it in terms like the report infractions thread.

Is there no way the permissions can be changed so super mods can delete them is my question. I now know at the moment that only admins can delete but can this be overcome by a few minutes fiddling around with permissions.

[Catzsy]

Yeah, due to others mistakes and errors in judgement we're the ones who have to put up with it for months. I know they don't make the mistakes purposefully but it is annoying for the above reasons.



If that is the official line then I obviously don't expect anyone to spend days doing that because I understand and respect that the time could be spent else where a lot more constructively. However, if that isn't the official line them I'm glad to see you'd be willing to look into it.

Or maybe when the SMOD reverses it they could delete it? It would be just as time consuming would it not or do they not have the power to do so? I think that would make sense though. Rather than reverse they could just delete - seeing as the infraction/warning isn't fair.

I don't expect expired ones to be removed because they are there for a reason, I didn't ask that because I know that already. I still think they should be removed after a certain time but that's a debate for another day. :P


Well I for one never take any notice of reversed infractions and unfortunately we are not allowed to delete and don't even have the tools to do so. What you say does make sense though and I am sure if there is a way to do it
by the Smods reporting them for deletion then I would be happy to go along with it. Obviously that is just for the reversed ones. This is just my personal view. :)

[today]

i got three reversed, if they was gone i'll have exactly one page of warnings!! omg, do it. (:

[Alkaz]

Instead of going through manually every ones infractions, why not if someone gets an infraction look and delete any reversed or when reversing, delete old ones at the same time??

[today]

or if people wanna report it then let um but dont advertise it?

[Immenseman]

Well I for one never take any notice of reversed infractions and unfortunately we are not allowed to delete and don't even have the tools to do so. What you say does make sense though and I am sure if there is a way to do it
by the Smods reporting them for deletion then I would be happy to go along with it. Obviously that is just for the reversed ones. This is just my personal view. :)
Yeah, I understand that you may look through and examine the case in depth. I personally don't think everyone is the same. It's very easy to jump to conclusions. I will use my own account as an example once again because I don't know any other individual cases. You could look at mine and see I have 18 (I think) infractions/warnings on my account. You'd instantly think that's a lot which it is. However, if you removed all the reversed ones it'd be 11 and you'd think, ok that's a fair few but only just above 10.

Obviously that is a vast difference in mentality. Although it's very easy to say now that they aren't considered I think it'd play a huge factor, consciously or not.

[Nixt]

This has been looked at by Matt and I as well as Nvr. There would be no problem with us deleting them in terms of the time it would take. Although it is a very time consuming task I would be happy to do it personally. However there is a problem with the fact that by deleting reversed infractions we are also deleting the record we have of the mistakes moderators make. If a Moderator is making a mistake repeatedly then we will not be able to keep track of it. Additionally reversed infractions are a key part of Moderator reports.

[nvrspk4]

This has been looked at by Matt and I as well as Nvr. There would be no problem with us deleting them in terms of the time it would take. Although it is a very time consuming task I would be happy to do it personally. However there is a problem with the fact that by deleting reversed infractions we are also deleting the record we have of the mistakes moderators make. If a Moderator is making a mistake repeatedly then we will not be able to keep track of it. Additionally reversed infractions are a key part of Moderator reports.

To add some details it has do be done via admincp therefore cannot be given to super moderators, and it would take a long time so its not like one day itd be there and the next it wouldn't. However there is the standing problem with the review of moderator complaints, sometimes people issue complaints saying that their infractions from moderator x is always reversed, perhaps because moderator x is a bad mod or perhaps because moderator x is targeting them.

With the tool in admincp we can quickly search for infractions issued by moderatorx and see if it is a trend or not. We do log the number of reversed infractions from time to time but nothing with the detail never mind the search capability provided.

Personally, I'd say that reversed infractions help to protect members more than hurt.

[lick]

I AM BEING TARGETED BY MOD X :'(

[today]

Surly if the reversed infractions/warnings are two months old at least that'll give you enough time to do reports and report about it, even keep a record else where if required?

[jackass]

I don't really mind either way, i've only got 1 expired and 1 reversed, and they were both ages ago, so it doesn't really affect me. :P