Should There Be Another "Trusted" Member Thread?

[keister12345]

after being scammed Again :rolleyes: i think it would be wise if we bought back the trusted and untrusted member thread.
basically it would have members names under a title and then how many + (trusted) and - (untrusted) they have next to them. i think this would help people stop being scammed.

It would look like this:

User Going First: (+/-)
Keister12345 5/0

User going second (+/-)
Keister12345 0/0



vote in the poll!!

Edited by Catzsy [Forum Super Moderator]: Moved from Rare Trading to Feedback as it is a more suitable forum.

[e5]

People could lied and it's mean to name scammers + we can't get all users in it really. Would have to be updated too regularly and mods have better things to do.

[keister12345]

it wouldnt name scammers - it would show their stats

i would update it personally if i could

[Black_Apalachi]

How would you get a trust or untrusted point, as it were? And what kind of deals does this refer to anyway? If it's money/Rune/etc for Habbo, surely Habbox won't be interested in discussing it in any way given it's against Habbo's T&Cs?

[Fandle]

Can you seriously tell me how you've got 'scammed' again? I think this is totally ridiculous. If you're buying Runescape Money for Habbo Furniture, that is your fault - not anyone elses. You shouldn't do it to be honest. Plus, I'd like to know how EXACTLY this would work because I think it'd be a fail of an idea.

[katweazel]

You've been a member for over 4 years and yet you still get scammed??? simple rule if you dont know them ..dont trust them ..
As with your idea who says people are to be trusted ..I could put " keister12345"untrusted yet i dont know you ,I cant see any way it would work

[Skajo]

No. Simple as.

[keister12345]

i dont see why people have a problem with the thread idea.

it would work by someone ( me ) Going through the trades for stuff where somebody has to go first, and then looking at the outcome, like if someone vouches for somebody that is 1 trusted point. however if the deal does not go according to plan ( like somebody accuses of scamming ) then the evidence would be shown and if it is sufficient evidence to suggest the person got scammed it is a - trust point.

the only people who would not want it are those people who are likely to scam as it would show people not to trade them

[Immenseman]

i see where you're coming from and agree with you to an extent. however, a user such as you (or any user for that matter) couldn't really run such an important thread for obvious reasons. you might dislike someone and claim they scammed you even though in reality they could be the safest trader on the forum.

it'd have to be management ran and that only works if any members of management are active runescape or whatever the game in question is users. it'd only be fair if forum management were to run and moderate the thread but then they have to rely on other vouches etc which might not be fair.

also, if someone gets scammed by somebody who is on the trusted members thread then the **** is going to hit the fan and come back at habbox. the scammed memeber will be like "well habbox said he is safe so it's their fault!!" which is true to an extent. it's something habbox don't really need to get involved in - it'll just lead to problems.

at the end of the day - you need to be more careful who you're trading with. that's the obvious solution to your troubles.

[keister12345]

i see where you're coming from and agree with you to an extent. however, a user such as you (or any user for that matter) couldn't really run such an important thread for obvious reasons. you might dislike someone and claim they scammed you even though in reality they could be the safest trader on the forum.

it'd have to be management ran and that only works if any members of management are active runescape or whatever the game in question is users. it'd only be fair if forum management were to run and moderate the thread but then they have to rely on other vouches etc which might not be fair.

also, if someone gets scammed by somebody who is on the trusted members thread then the **** is going to hit the fan and come back at habbox. the scammed memeber will be like "well habbox said he is safe so it's their fault!!" which is true to an extent. it's something habbox don't really need to get involved in - it'll just lead to problems.

at the end of the day - you need to be more careful who you're trading with. that's the obvious solution to your troubles.

i see where you're coming from, however what im saying is, you dont say that they are a scammer in the thread, you are saying how many people say they are trusted and how many people say be careful. so people can make an advanced judgement on who to trust

[Meanies]

It's too much work for what it's worth imo

[Immenseman]

i see where you're coming from, however what im saying is, you dont say that they are a scammer in the thread, you are saying how many people say they are trusted and how many people say be careful. so people can make an advanced judgement on who to trust
yeah but if you disliked someone who is trustworthy you might not put them on the list.

[Jordy]

Vouching on this forum is ridiculous, I've had friends on this forum ask me to vouch them in a thread when I've never even dealt with them before.

Vouching should mean you've personally dealt with them before and had a good experience, hence why your prepared to back them and put your reputation at stake. But in reality it's just people who get on vouching each other which means absolutely nothing and that's how so much scamming goes on.

[The Professor]

What happened to the old trusted trader thread in the runescape forum? That system worked pretty well.

[keister12345]

i know....

[Catzsy]

What happened to the old trusted trader thread in the runescape forum? That system worked pretty well.

I agree it did, Alex and the answer is I don't know. This has been an ongoing problem for years and if there is a trusted list I feel it would have to be for established members with a good amount of posts to their name and many + rep for safe trades as new members could do a fair few good trades just to get on it and then scam. This is where the problem lies. It is a difficult one to solve.

[keister12345]

Mabye there could be a middleman system
for example:

somebody wanted to do habbo for runescape
the middleman would accept the habbo
then the person would give the runescape
and once that it sorted, the middleman gives the person the habbo.

[The Professor]

I agree it did, Alex and the answer is I don't know. This has been an ongoing problem for years and if there is a trusted list I feel it would have to be for established members with a good amount of posts to their name and many + rep for safe trades as new members could do a fair few good trades just to get on it and then scam. This is where the problem lies. It is a difficult one to solve.

The limits of that system apply to any other trust based system. The poster above (sorry I didn't quote) suggested a middleman system but the same problems apply to that. Due to the nature of the trade being done where one person has to go first and give up something for nothing, there will always be the potential for someone to scam. In theory, even if we appointed nvr as a middleman and he was feeling evil that day, he could scam, and you'd think he'd be the most trustworthy person on here.

Its an unsolveable problem. Offering a trusted list listing people with a good reputation can help the person make an informed choice about who to trade with but ultimately there will always be the risk of scamming. Imo its far more responsible of habbox to support the traders by helping them make an informed choice than making them take a blind leap of faith.

A trusted list also keeps within the HxF ethics of promoting a good reputation but not trying to give people a bad reputation by accusing them of scamming.

[Catzsy]

The limits of that system apply to any other trust based system. The poster above (sorry I didn't quote) suggested a middleman system but the same problems apply to that. Due to the nature of the trade being done where one person has to go first and give up something for nothing, there will always be the potential for someone to scam. In theory, even if we appointed nvr as a middleman and he was feeling evil that day, he could scam, and you'd think he'd be the most trustworthy person on here.

Its an unsolveable problem. Offering a trusted list listing people with a good reputation can help the person make an informed choice about who to trade with but ultimately there will always be the risk of scamming. Imo its far more responsible of habbox to support the traders by helping them make an informed choice than making them take a blind leap of faith.

A trusted list also keeps within the HxF ethics of promoting a good reputation but not trying to give people a bad reputation by accusing them of scamming.

Yes I completely agree as long as the list is strictly vetted and monitored. Obviously this is just a personal opinion.

[Arch]

What happened to the old trusted trader thread in the runescape forum? That system worked pretty well.

People on the list began to scam.


Mabye there could be a middleman system
for example:

somebody wanted to do habbo for runescape
the middleman would accept the habbo
then the person would give the runescape
and once that it sorted, the middleman gives the person the habbo.

Well a middleman would have to be a Mod, and since i don't think any Mods play rs, would be kinda pointless.


Also, no i don't think we should have a trusted list, because no matter what anyone can be a scammer, its just what the offer is that will make them do it. Some wouldn't ever scam for like 30Hcs but im sure trusted members would scam for 10kHcs (obviously just an example).

Anyways if you wanna check if someone is safe search their previous trade threads, and check their vouchs, and PM previous people who have traded them. Obviously there is no 100% way to ssafely trade but just be careful and don't trade sketchy looking members?

[Black_Apalachi]

i dont see why people have a problem with the thread idea.

it would work by someone ( me ) Going through the trades for stuff where somebody has to go first, and then looking at the outcome, like if someone vouches for somebody that is 1 trusted point. however if the deal does not go according to plan ( like somebody accuses of scamming ) then the evidence would be shown and if it is sufficient evidence to suggest the person got scammed it is a - trust point.

the only people who would not want it are those people who are likely to scam as it would show people not to trade them

But can't you see how unreliable it would be? How can you prove whether someone scammed or not? This is basically what I have just been through on PayPal. They reckon they can look at the "evidence" and determine who is in the wrong. Turns out however, even a company who does this on a daily basis even gets that clearly wrong :eusa_wall.

How would anyone even get a negative point? I mean when somebody is scammed, the scammer isn't going to admit it, they'll just be trying to give the victim a negative point also. So surely they will both cancel each other out and it will only really show positive points from trades between people who didn't scam.

Jake's right, Habbox will end up getting blamed when things go wrong. Besides, if there's a thread with a list of people who have been trading Habbo for currency etc outside Habbo (and with evidence to prove it in the case of disputes), surely Sulake could easily see it and they would all be banned? :S

Even after a good trade, some idiot might try to give the other person a negative point just because they feel like being horrible. Like what I've been through with the noob who reversed the PayPal. I hate... grr.. I can't remember his name properly... I don't feel well so I think I'm going to see the Doc with U and some Men and we can all have some T :@.

[keister12345]

But can't you see how unreliable it would be? How can you prove whether someone scammed or not? This is basically what I have just been through on PayPal. They reckon they can look at the "evidence" and determine who is in the wrong. Turns out however, even a company who does this on a daily basis even gets that clearly wrong :eusa_wall.

How would anyone even get a negative point? I mean when somebody is scammed, the scammer isn't going to admit it, they'll just be trying to give the victim a negative point also. So surely they will both cancel each other out and it will only really show positive points from trades between people who didn't scam.

Jake's right, Habbox will end up getting blamed when things go wrong. Besides, if there's a thread with a list of people who have been trading Habbo for currency etc outside Habbo (and with evidence to prove it in the case of disputes), surely Sulake could easily see it and they would all be banned? :S

Even after a good trade, some idiot might try to give the other person a negative point just because they feel like being horrible. Like what I've been through with the noob who reversed the PayPal. I hate... grr.. I can't remember his name properly... I don't feel well so I think I'm going to see the Doc with U and some Men and we can all have some T :@.
so ur saying that humty DUMTy scammed u? or are u really feeling ill??

[Immenseman]

I get you Rob, don't you worry ;)

[Black_Apalachi]

so ur saying that humty DUMTy scammed u? or are u really feeling ill??

LIRL! :P


I get you Rob, don't you worry ;)

;)

[keister12345]

lolz, it wasnt was it, or was it one of them thingy's a Document that scammed u? ( u know , microsoft word )

[J0SH]

No, it's stupid. Someone would pay up on a small deal to get on this 'trused list' then scam someone loads more.

[Black_Apalachi]

No, it's stupid. Someone would pay up on a small deal to get on this 'trused list' then scam someone loads more.

Yeah exactly. Even really safe people who have always been OK with 10 or 20T deals, as soon as they get a 50T deal, who knows what they'll do?

[keister12345]

Yeah exactly. Even really safe people who have always been OK with 10 or 20T deals, as soon as they get a 50T deal, who knows what they'll do?
steal it and run off to sunny mexico???

who trades 50T for runescape members pins anyway?

[The Professor]

Yeah exactly. Even really safe people who have always been OK with 10 or 20T deals, as soon as they get a 50T deal, who knows what they'll do?

The question is would you rather people are left to their own devices and take a blind leap of faith on who to trust, or provide them with the information to help them make an informed choice? The people on the list don't even need to be endorsed by habbox, the list could just be a record of successful trades the person has made. If the record shows the person has done lots of trades for low amounts, that would arouse suspicion for the reasons you stated.

If someone scams and the person that's been scammed has proof (maybe the list could recommend all trades be videoed), the person can PM the mod to get them removed as with previous systems.

[Black_Apalachi]

It could prove to be helpful indeed. But I'm just saying, it could also create a false sense of security in some cases. Has anyone asked the powers that be what they think?

[keister12345]

catzy told me to post this thread with a poll...

[Catzsy]

It could prove to be helpful indeed. But I'm just saying, it could also create a false sense of security in some cases. Has anyone asked the powers that be what they think?


catzy told me to post this thread with a poll...

Yes I did suggest if he wanted to post the topic he could because that's what Feedback is for so the Management can look at it and see what the members views are. :)

[keister12345]

Yes I did suggest if he wanted to post the topic he could because that's what Feedback is for so the Management can look at it and see what the members views are. :)

indeed, catzy is very helpful member of staff :D

[nvrspk4]

I've been watching this thread and honestly haven't posted because I can't make up my mind.

In the end I would think that we won't be implementing a trusted system. The main reason for that is the cons outweigh the pros.

If you safely trade with someone, have them vouch for you. Members of that forum will know if that person can be trusted. In the end, Habbox *technically* suggests that you do none of those things because its at your own risk.

The problem is there's a lot of trust based trading...Hotel-Hotel, RS for Habbo, RS for RL, Neopets for Habbo/RS/RL, WoW for Habbo/RS/RL/NeoPets and of course Donator for furni etc.etc. we'd be obligated to keep lists for everyone.

Beyond that, we also have some length of plausible deniability. If Blizzard or Jagex or Sulake contact us to shut down some threads they see about Real World Trading as I believe they call it, we can simply close the thread. If we have a thread that says...well, don't do it, but if you want to, here are some people who you can trust, we lose that plausible deniability.

Ok, so the plausible deniability isn't really a huge issue, but its a peripheral one that deserves some consideration as well.

[Black_Apalachi]

Nvr has basically summed it up. There's more risks than there are positive aspects and it could easily get Habbox into trouble (or at least make Habbox look bad).

[keister12345]

I've been watching this thread and honestly haven't posted because I can't make up my mind.

In the end I would think that we won't be implementing a trusted system. The main reason for that is the cons outweigh the pros.

If you safely trade with someone, have them vouch for you. Members of that forum will know if that person can be trusted. In the end, Habbox *technically* suggests that you do none of those things because its at your own risk.

The problem is there's a lot of trust based trading...Hotel-Hotel, RS for Habbo, RS for RL, Neopets for Habbo/RS/RL, WoW for Habbo/RS/RL/NeoPets and of course Donator for furni etc.etc. we'd be obligated to keep lists for everyone.

Beyond that, we also have some length of plausible deniability. If Blizzard or Jagex or Sulake contact us to shut down some threads they see about Real World Trading as I believe they call it, we can simply close the thread. If we have a thread that says...well, don't do it, but if you want to, here are some people who you can trust, we lose that plausible deniability.

Ok, so the plausible deniability isn't really a huge issue, but its a peripheral one that deserves some consideration as well.

who says a member of habbox staff has to endorse it or post it?
why dont i make one on my profile? and have a link to it in my sig...

[Black_Apalachi]

who says a member of habbox staff has to endorse it or post it?
why dont i make one on my profile? and have a link to it in my sig...

Who says you can be trusted to run it fairly? I don't neccessarily mean you personally, but if anyone other than a Mod/staff runs it, people won't take it seriously. A normal user could be open to bribes or simply altering it in favour of their mates and against people they don't like.

Wouldn't work. But I guess you can do what you want with your profile, so go for it :).

[Immenseman]

Yeah by all means you can run one yourself as long as you don't claim it's official in any way. If it's user ran it's open to bias and other problems whereas staff are less likely to get involved in such scandals.

[Richie]

after being scammed Again :rolleyes: i think it would be wise if we bought back the trusted and untrusted member thread.
basically it would have members names under a title and then how many + (trusted) and - (untrusted) they have next to them. i think this would help people stop being scammed.

It would look like this:

User Going First: (+/-)
Keister12345 5/0

User going second (+/-)
Keister12345 0/0



vote in the poll!!



It would be good in certain circumstances, but unfortunately i don't think it will work as if anyone gets scammed by a "trusted" member then habbox will be at fault, If habbox did agree to make this thread its just going to make certain situations stressfull for the staff.

[keister12345]

Who says you can be trusted to run it fairly? I don't neccessarily mean you personally, but if anyone other than a Mod/staff runs it, people won't take it seriously. A normal user could be open to bribes or simply altering it in favour of their mates and against people they don't like.

Wouldn't work. But I guess you can do what you want with your profile, so go for it :).
true , but i dont have friends on this forum

[keister12345]

as you can probably see on the blog, i have decided to code a program, i have added in a disclaimer, which basically says : habbox accepts no responsibility, i accept no responsibility and Jagex and Sulake staff cannot use the program to ban people for use of the program.

[luce]

i think it would be hard to do if im honest. It would be extra work for whoever had to do it and getting the info to put into it would be unreliable in the first place ;)

[keister12345]

mabye, but im doin it anyway

[Mikey]

No. ;)

[Black_Apalachi]

as you can probably see on the blog, i have decided to code a program, i have added in a disclaimer, which basically says : habbox accepts no responsibility, i accept no responsibility and Jagex and Sulake staff cannot use the program to ban people for use of the program.

I had a look, there's an issue with displaying their average trade size. Some people may always only do very small trades purely for fear of being scammed. Even though they are perfectly safe, wouldn't this give an unfair representation of them?

Also, why couldn't Sulake ban people? It wouldn't be a very reliable source of information to them, agreed, but still it wouldn't stop them banning someone because they saw them on the list, if they wanted to.

[Cwmbran]

It was done before in the Runescape section a while back.

(Dunno if this has been mentioned)

Basically you would go ahead with the trade and take screenshots/video record the trade and then show it to a MOD who was in charge of the thread. After a user completed say 5 trades of going second then he would be put onto the Trusted User list.

This didn't work though as scammers got onto the list, obviously doing 5 legit trades then just kept scamming once on there as most people didn't bother recording or screenshoting trades between someone who was on the trusted list.

[Black_Apalachi]

This didn't work though as scammers got onto the list, obviously doing 5 legit trades then just kept scamming once on there as most people didn't bother recording or screenshoting trades between someone who was on the trusted list.

Exactly. It will just create a huge opportunity for scammers.

[JACKTARD]

No. Bad idea.

People can just put things about people that they don't even know about. False info. False stats.