Being born Gay

[Clowgon]

I disagree with this theory. For me personally it was down to the social environment that i grew up in.

There's all sorts of theory's out that that suggests why people are gay but there's a lot that i don't agree with, there's some that could be a possibility.

Do you agree that people are born Gay?

Thread moved by iAdam (Forum Moderator); From 'Teen Life'

Edited by Catzsy (Forum Moderator): Thread closed due to accidental bump.

[Lost]

I kinda agree, too. I mean if there apparently is a cure to being gay (which they say there is on the news and what have you) then surely it's just a thing that you grow into? If you were born gay then it's hardly likely you could change that, not that I actually believe all this nonsense about having a cure to being gay.

As I'm not gay i'm going to be ignorant and not take an interest in the whole situation anyway lol :P

[Hazza]

Lool, I totally disagree with this. I NEVER choose to be gay, I just started liking guys without even thinking about it - Obviously it has a little to do with your environment as you're growing up. Its not like one day, I went 'oh, it sounds good, I'm going to be gay' and also there isn't a cure |:

[Lost]

Yeah I do kinda agree with above because there are people who have like gay fathers who dress up as obvious transvestites that turn out to be straight.

[Hazza]

Just because you've got a gay dad doesn't mean you're going to be... lol!

[buttons]

I kinda agree, too. I mean if there apparently is a cure to being gay (which they say there is on the news and what have you) then surely it's just a thing that you grow into? If you were born gay then it's hardly likely you could change that, not that I actually believe all this nonsense about having a cure to being gay.

As I'm not gay i'm going to be ignorant and not take an interest in the whole situation anyway lol :P
of course there isn't a cure to being gay, it's not an illness.
um i dunno. i don't think it's totally down to how you're brought up, i don't think just because guys are brought up around girls they turn out to be gay. my friend has 5 brothers and she's the only girl and one of that brothers is gay and really into football and always has been so it's not like there were things that "swayed" him into it :/ it doesn't matter if you were born that way or just figured along the way (depends how you see it), it's not an issue how you find out so i don't see why people need to debate about it.

[Inspiration]

I agree with this. I'm not gay but i think your sexual feelings are decided in the enviroment you grow up in and your not born gay :D

[Hazza]

To be honest, everyone who is straight and commenting on this wouldn't really have a clue... sorry for bein' so ignorant but you wouldn't! Its not like one day, you went should I be straight or gay? Oh being straight sounds good - you were born straight, you didn't have no reason to be gay (if that makes sense).

Where as gay people just grow up liking the same sex, the environment isn't going to determine whether you are or not because if it was surely your brothers/sisters would also be gay because they been bought up in the same enviroment...

Anyway, I agree with Buttons - I don't see why we have to debate it even thought I've started :P

[Lost]

of course there isn't a cure to being gay, it's not an illness.
um i dunno. i don't think it's totally down to how you're brought up, i don't think just because guys are brought up around girls they turn out to be gay. my friend has 5 brothers and she's the only girl and one of that brothers is gay and really into football and always has been so it's not like there were things that "swayed" him into it :/ it doesn't matter if you were born that way or just figured along the way (depends how you see it), it's not an issue how you find out so i don't see why people need to debate about it.

I never said that I thought was a cure but there are like Doctors and stuff saying there is a cure, but like surely gay people get offended by that if they're calling it a cure as if it's some sort of virus.

[Clowgon]

I kinda agree, too. I mean if there apparently is a cure to being gay (which they say there is on the news and what have you) then surely it's just a thing that you grow into? If you were born gay then it's hardly likely you could change that, not that I actually believe all this nonsense about having a cure to being gay.

As I'm not gay i'm going to be ignorant and not take an interest in the whole situation anyway lol :P

Hmm ye i can see where your coming from.


Lool, I totally disagree with this. I NEVER choose to be gay, I just started liking guys without even thinking about it - Obviously it has a little to do with your environment as you're growing up. Its not like one day, I went 'oh, it sounds good, I'm going to be gay' and also there isn't a cure |:

But how can anyone possibly be born gay? It's all got to bow down to the social environment you grow up in. :P

You say you started liking boys.. So this kinda proves that you wasn't born gay... :S

[Hazza]

Hmm ye i can see where your coming from.



But how can anyone possibly be born gay? It's all got to bow down to the social environment you grow up in. :P

You say you started liking boys.. So this kinda proves that you wasn't born gay... :S
Ok, let me ask you this - you're gay right? - Have you ever thought about a girl in a sexual way in your life? If its you're social environment wouldn't all your mates be gay too...?

[Clowgon]

Ok, let me ask you this - you're gay right? - Have you ever thought about a girl in a sexual way in your life? If its you're social environment wouldn't all your mates be gay too...?

Oh sorry if i didn't make it clear, no i'm not full on gay (Bi).

Well most of my friends who I've know since i was in Nursery are even Gay or bisexual. Many of them feel the same that they weren't born how they are today, many of them think strongly that it's down to the fact they were bought up in a mostly male social environment.

[Hazza]

Well you must live in a odd area because there's not many people I know are gay... and if you're Bi you still really wouldn't know to the full extend lol.

[Clowgon]

Lol odd area. I would tbh as this is deffo not a phrase i'm going through, I've know for years that i am bi and I've experience relationships with both M and F but if you know what your really are and sure that your not confused or anything like that then probably know the reason for what you are today.

I'm sure many people believe that they were born gay but there's no concrete evidence to prove that is completely true i don't think no will be be able provide the answer to explain why people are either gay or bi. If so, not for many years.

[-:Undertaker:-]

You are born gay, being gay effects your enviroment - whether you like football, hang out with girls and so on (of course there are many exceptions to this). Your enviroment is effected by who you are, whether your a naturally shy person, a gay guy - all of it.

You have always been gay, therefore the choices/decisions made in your life and those effects have all been effected by you being gay, just you didnt realise it.

[Clowgon]

I have to say i disagree i'm afraid. Since i was at the age of 7 or so, I've always liked girls and have never felt the way i feel boys the way i do now but because my social surroundings have changed, from probably the age of 9-10 ish I've become physically attracted to boys.

I deffo wasn't born liking the same sex, i am sure of that.

[-:Undertaker:-]

I have to say i disagree i'm afraid. Since i was at the age of 7 or so, I've always liked girls and have never felt the way i feel boys the way i do now but because my social surroundings have changed, from probably the age of 9-10 ish I've become physically attracted to boys.

I deffo wasn't born liking the same sex, i am sure of that.

You most likely never liked girls properly at that age, especially at the age of seven. If you did the onset of puberty most likely made your hormones go crazy and perhaps you did like girls for a short period, once that settled however - you returned to normal. Unless you thought you liked girls because your friends and peers did, but you never really.

I have never heard of boys as young as seven liking people sexually anyway;- do you actually like girls now as it stands?, do you think of girls in the same way you do with boys when you see them?

[DamianLove]

I think you're probably born gay and you can't really change that.
However your social environment obviously affects how you cope with it.
Either repressing it or been open about it from the word go.

Fun recent video about it from Michael Buckley; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CHusuzKdXXA

[Clowgon]

You most likely never liked girls properly at that age, especially at the age of seven. If you did the onset of puberty most likely made your hormones go crazy and perhaps you did like girls for a short period, once that settled however - you returned to normal. Unless you thought you liked girls because your friends and peers did, but you never really.

I have never heard of boys as young as seven liking people sexually anyway;- do you actually like girls now as it stands?, do you think of girls in the same way you do with boys when you see them?

Hmm don't know about that one.. I'm deffo not full on gay and i haven't liked girls because people around me like them. Always have been attracted to females and always will do.

Nothings changed and i do think of girls in the same way that i think of boys.

[Wahey]

I know girls who have had Bf's but went Les, so no i don't believe it

[Meanies]

In psychology we were taught that it's to do with how you were brought up and nothing to do with being born either 'gay' or 'straight'

[DamianLove]

Yeah but I had 'girlfriends' when I was younger just cause thats what other people did.
I suppose when you think about it, it is a debate that until there is scientific proof then there is no point discussing cause there is always going to be someone who has a different side to the story aha.

[-:Undertaker:-]

I know girls who have had Bf's but went Les, so no i don't believe it

Also known as denial.

[Misawa]

Well, there are many young children who you can just tell are that way inclined, but obviously they don't know it yet. Also, I've heard various gay people say about how even when they were just 6 or 7 years old, they were limp-wristed and stuck their hands out straight to look at their nails, and other feminine actions. So I do have some belief in the "born gay" theory.

[Hazza]

Also known as denial.
Lol, so true.

[FlyingJesus]

Lool, I totally disagree with this. I NEVER choose to be gay

No-one said you choose


of course there isn't a cure to being gay, it's not an illness.

Actually with psychotherapy you can "cure" being gay, although I wouldn't use the term cure


To be honest, everyone who is straight and commenting on this wouldn't really have a clue... sorry for bein' so ignorant but you wouldn't!

If you're correct in saying that you are born gay, then what you said above pretty much amounts to me saying I'm not lactose intolerant therefore cannot understand those who are


the environment isn't going to determine whether you are or not because if it was surely your brothers/sisters would also be gay because they been bought up in the same enviroment...

They aren't the same person, no-one reacts the same nor has exactly the same experiences and thought processes as anyone else


You are born gay, being gay effects your enviroment - whether you like football, hang out with girls and so on (of course there are many exceptions to this). Your enviroment is effected by who you are, whether your a naturally shy person, a gay guy - all of it.

You have always been gay, therefore the choices/decisions made in your life and those effects have all been effected by you being gay, just you didnt realise it.

lmao being gay is not the same thing as being effeminate

[NIKKEE]

I also agree it's social surroundings. There could be no other reason for why there is suddenly so many gay people, I mean I know a lot of people who are gay have a realy hard time coming out, but then there's some people who show it off and are very flamboyant and I can only think that's due to how they were brought up, or, even possible decisions they made. Sometimes I really DO think that SOME people decide they want to be gay cause of the lifestyle they think comes with it, I realy do, but I'm not saying people CHOOSE it, just that some do.

[-:Undertaker:-]

lmao being gay is not the same thing as being effeminate

I'm not saying they are, I am saying gay doesn't just come onto you - it effects everything which proves its genes, such as the way you act etc - of course there are exceptions, but lets face it - most gay guys are more feminine even in small ways than straight guys are. Therefore thats why I believe the brought up/social side is total nonsense, its genes.


I also agree it's social surroundings. There could be no other reason for why there is suddenly so many gay people, I mean I know a lot of people who are gay have a realy hard time coming out, but then there's some people who show it off and are very flamboyant and I can only think that's due to how they were brought up, or, even possible decisions they made. Sometimes I really DO think that SOME people decide they want to be gay cause of the lifestyle they think comes with it, I realy do, but I'm not saying people CHOOSE it, just that some do.

You are saying people that choose it.

[FlyingJesus]

If there are a massive amount of exceptions (which there are) then it proves the theory wrong, at least in the way that you're trying to prove it

[NIKKEE]

You are saying people that choose it.

Calm down. I'm not saying people that choose it. I'm saying that people choose it. I also meant to say "I'm not saying all people CHOOSE it". I thought that would be pretty obvious from my choice of some.

[lick]

I also agree it's social surroundings. There could be no other reason for why there is suddenly so many gay people, I mean I know a lot of people who are gay have a realy hard time coming out, but then there's some people who show it off and are very flamboyant and I can only think that's due to how they were brought up, or, even possible decisions they made. Sometimes I really DO think that SOME people decide they want to be gay cause of the lifestyle they think comes with it, I realy do, but I'm not saying people CHOOSE it, just that some do.

Umm maybe because being gay was frowned upon years ago and it is now more socially acceptable to be gay... people who were gay years ago just hid it

[-:Undertaker:-]

If there are a massive amount of exceptions (which there are) then it proves the theory wrong, at least in the way that you're trying to prove it

I have said there are exceptions and of course there are, i'm saying that your genes effect your enviroment so you are always gay, you cant just suddenly turn gay because of your enviroment - otherwise we'd have a lot of social groups all turning out gay, a lot of classes in schools all turning out gay - doesn't happen, its down to genes.


Calm down. I'm not saying people that choose it. I'm saying that people choose it. I also meant to say "I'm not saying all people CHOOSE it".

They are not gay then, you cannot choose who you like and do not like. If anyone 'chooses' to be gay - they are not gay, simple as that.

[NIKKEE]

They are not gay then, you cannot choose who you like and do not like. If anyone 'chooses' to be gay - they are not gay, simple as that.

They're still doing the same things gay people do, and that's choosing to be gay. And I actually think that in choosing to be gay, some people can actually end up being gay, because they've focused their mind on that, and actually do feel attracted to the same sex, even if they hadn't before. Dawn Porter was quite a good example of that.

[-:Undertaker:-]

Umm maybe because being gay was frowned upon years ago and it is now more socially acceptable to be gay... people who were gay years ago just hid it

You hit the nail on the head.


They're still doing the same things gay people do, and that's choosing to be gay. And I actually think that in choosing to be gay, some people can actually end up being gay, because they've focused their mind on that, and actually do feel attracted to the same sex, even if they hadn't before. Dawn Porter was quite a good example of that.

They can be involved with gay acts, but are not gay. You cannot change to start being sexually attracted to a certain gender when you were not before. It is like those men/women who have families, have always been gay and hid it like that - then they come out as gay later on.

If you are sexually attacted to same gender = gay.
If you are pretending to be gay = not gay.

It is as simple as that.

[Kyle]

being gay has become a trend of the 21st century

[NIKKEE]

You hit the nail on the head.

They can be involved with gay acts, but are not gay. You cannot change to start being sexually attracted to a certain gender when you were not before. It is like those men/women who have families, have always been gay and hid it like that - then they come out as gay later on.

If you are sexually attacted to same gender = gay.
If you are pretending to be gay = not gay.

It is as simple as that.

Alright, just saying what I think, the same as you are. And I don't believe that if homosexuality was socially acceptable back then there would be as many gay people as there is now.

[FlyingJesus]

They are not gay then, you cannot choose who you like and do not like.

Yeah you can :S quite easily

[Hazza]

You could maybe choose but it wouldn't be real if you ask me - Its like if someones in denial, that isn't real, going out with girls - real is being with guys. They are choosing to 'like' girls, but its not real.

[NIKKEE]

You could maybe choose but it wouldn't be real if you ask me - Its like if someones in denial, that isn't real, going out with girls - real is being with guys. They are choosing to 'like' girls, but its not real.
Yes but you wouldn't say he's gay but he goes out with girls, you would say he's straight. And you wouldn't say he's straight but he goes out with guys, as that would be gay.
I don't really see the difference if you're pretending or really are, if you're a guy and you're doing a guy, then in my eyes you're gay.

My whole general point that has been picked apart was that people aren't born gay. I think babies are blank canvases and it's people and their surroundings that make them who they are.

[Hazza]

Erm, if you're pretending - then you're hiding yourself aren't you?
So, all the gay guys 'in hiding' are basically chosing to be straight, even though they're not - doesn't make sense to me... you cannot call that straight.

[NIKKEE]

Erm, if you're pretending - then you're hiding yourself aren't you?
So, all the gay guys 'in hiding' are basically chosing to be straight, even though they're not - doesn't make sense to me... you cannot call that straight.
Yeah you can, they were straight at the time and so I'd call them straight.

[Hazza]

But they weren't straight - they were gay but in denial? :S

[NIKKEE]

But they weren't straight - they were gay but in denial? :S
But who's to know that? They were doing straight stuff at the time so they were straight then.

[Hazza]

You have a rather one way look when viewing things, but fair enough - thats your opinion.

[DamianLove]

I know loads of people that are gay yet do straight stuff for a laugh and whatever.
Sexuality is just something that is never going to be fully understood and an arguement no one is going to win.

[lick]

I know loads of people that are gay yet do straight stuff for a laugh and whatever.
Sexuality is just something that is never going to be fully understood and an arguement no one is going to win.

Whats classed as straight stuff? :S

[NIKKEE]

That's what a view or opinion is, one way. You were hardly agreeing with me either. I wasn't making some outlandish statement either, all I'm saying is even if you're in denial or you're pretending to be gay, at the time you were doing either straight or gay stuff, it was straight or gay at that time, no matter what you are later in life.

[DamianLove]

Whats classed as straight stuff? :S

anything between a male and a female thats more than kissing. aha.

[-:Undertaker:-]

Yeah you can :S quite easily

No you cannot, a gay guy cannot sexually be attracted to a girl, hence why is he gay.


Yes but you wouldn't say he's gay but he goes out with girls, you would say he's straight. And you wouldn't say he's straight but he goes out with guys, as that would be gay.
I don't really see the difference if you're pretending or really are, if you're a guy and you're doing a guy, then in my eyes you're gay.

My whole general point that has been picked apart was that people aren't born gay. I think babies are blank canvases and it's people and their surroundings that make them who they are.

No you wouldn't.

Here is an example.

A guy fancies guys, and guys only. He is confused, in denial basically. He then goes out with girls ..is he straight? - no and he never will be. It is who you are attracted to, not who you want to be attracted to.


But who's to know that? They were doing straight stuff at the time so they were straight then.

No, they were gay but in denial.

[lick]

anything between a male and a female thats more than kissing. aha.

Oh thought you was on about things like hobbies etc

[Hazza]

NIKKEE,
I'm gay right - so if I went and had sex with a girl would I be straight?
Er no, point proven.

[NIKKEE]

NIKKEE,
I'm gay right - so if I went and had sex with a girl would I be straight?
Er no, point proven.

No because you have came out as gay. You must be completely missing my point.
I said if a guy is going out with girl then he is straight, I didn't say a guy who is gay and has a quick fling with a girl suddenly makes him straight in my eyes, but if you started seeing a girl and were going out with her for a while, then I'd probably think you had just been saying you were gay for some reason and that now you're straight.
You seem to be taking this as a personal attack. If you're really gay then good for you, I'm talking about people who have for some reason chosen to be gay, although some of you are saying no-one is gay if they choose to be gay, yet they're still living out a lifestyle for quite some time.

[-:Undertaker:-]

No because you have came out as gay. You must be completely missing my point.
I said if a guy is going out with girl then he is straight, I didn't say a guy who is gay and has a quick fling with a girl suddenly makes him straight in my eyes, but if you started seeing a girl and were going out with her for a while, then I'd probably think you had just been saying you were gay for some reason and that now you're straight.
You seem to be taking this as a personal attack. If you're really gay then good for you, I'm talking about people who have for some reason chosen to be gay, although some of you are saying no-one is gay if they choose to be gay, yet they're still living out a lifestyle for quite some time.

No but the point is and that we are making, is that they are not gay because you cannot choose to be gay - therefore they are fake, they are not gay.

..just like I cannot choose to have blue eyes, ginger hair or be a few inches taller.

[Hazza]

1) I haven't come out
2) Actually you said "whatever the guy is doing at the time" not anything to do with being in a relationship...

[NIKKEE]

No but the point is and that we are making, is that they are not gay because you cannot choose to be gay - therefore they are fake, they are not gay.

..just like I cannot choose to have blue eyes, ginger hair or be a few inches taller.
That is a completely different thing. And the point I am making is that I would call someone who is living a gay lifestyle, having regular gay sex, even if they were choosing to, I would call them gay, even if you wouldn't.

[NIKKEE]

1) I haven't come out
2) Actually you said "whatever the guy is doing at the time" not anything to do with being in a relationship...

FINE. You may not have came out, but you seem quite confident that you are gay. You're not in denial.

And by "whatever the guy is doing at the time" I mean doing for a while. If a guy had sex with a girl once and that was the end of it then who knows, I'm still talking about someone who as far as anyone knows is straight and hasn't come out, even if they are in denial. I would say they were straight at THAT time.

[Hazza]

FINE. You may not have came out, but you seem quite confident that you are gay. You're not in denial.

And by "whatever the guy is doing at the time" I mean doing for a while. If a guy had sex with a girl once and that was the end of it then who knows, I'm still talking about someone who as far as anyone knows is straight and hasn't come out, even if they are in denial. I would say they were straight at THAT time.
They are straight to us, but not straight inside - that is what we are getting at, you cannot change how you feel - you can maybe dismiss it and be in denial for the rest of your life but you're still gay whether people know or not.

[NIKKEE]

They are straight to us, but not straight inside - that is what we are getting at, you cannot change how you feel - you can maybe dismiss it and be in denial for the rest of your life but you're still gay whether people know or not.
Yup, but at the time I'd still call them straight, and even when they come out later I'd still say they were straight at that time.

[-:Undertaker:-]

That is a completely different thing. And the point I am making is that I would call someone who is living a gay lifestyle, having regular gay sex, even if they were choosing to, I would call them gay, even if you wouldn't.

If they are not attracted to other guys then they are not gay. I have already given examples of men and women who have had families, lived the lie and then came out as gay because thats what they truly were and always will be.

[Hazza]

Yup, but at the time I'd still call them straight, and even when they come out later I'd still say they were straight at that time.
But they wasn't? They've never been straight - they've pretended!

[NIKKEE]

But they wasn't? They've never been straight - they've pretended!

Yes they pretended, still were doing straight things. So they were straight.
Look this is just how I would see things, I don't know why I had to be completely argued with.

[-:Undertaker:-]

Yes they pretended, still were doing straight things. So they were straight.
Look this is just how I would see things, I don't know why I had to be completely argued with.

Yes, so they were gay but in denial.

We are not arguing with you, only discussing it and afterall, we are on a forum. :)

[NIKKEE]

Yes, so they were gay but in denial.

We are not arguing with you, only discussing it and afterall, we are on a forum. :)
Yes but my entire point has never even been if people are in denial or not. I was just saying, and I feel I've written this sentence one million times, I would still call them straight. And if they were living a gay lifestyle even if they were choosing to, I'd call them gay. It doesn't matter if they were in denial or choosing.
And my very, very original point was that, once again, it's to do with how you're brought up. Just to ensure we don't stray...

[-:Undertaker:-]

Yes but my entire point has never even been if people are in denial or not. I was just saying, and I feel I've written this sentence one million times, I would still call them straight. And if they were living a gay lifestyle even if they were choosing to, I'd call them gay. It doesn't matter if they were in denial or choosing.
And my very, very original point was that, once again, it's to do with how you're brought up. Just to ensure we don't stray...

That is connected though, we have given examples of how it isn't a choice and how it is down to genes - hence why it not being a choice just like some people are born with blue eyes and some are born with brown eyes.

[NIKKEE]

I read through the thread and have seen no proper evidence it's down to genes, other than that you said that people make decisions based on who they are, who you are effects your environment. So you could say my cousin who is gay chose to have all female friends because he subconsciously knew from a young age he was gay, and not the fact that due to being around so many females and that was his environment it resulted in him being gay. So you see it the first way, but I'm sorry, I see it the second way. I can't see how it's genes, no one in our family but him is gay, there are just my views and those are yours.

[FlyingJesus]

No you cannot, a gay guy cannot sexually be attracted to a girl, hence why is he gay.

You only said that one can't choose whom one is attracted to, which to a degree is entirely possible, that singular point was not restricted to the homosexuality debate


No but the point is and that we are making, is that they are not gay because you cannot choose to be gay - therefore they are fake, they are not gay.

..just like I cannot choose to have blue eyes, ginger hair or be a few inches taller.

It's not like choosing eye or hair colour though, as those as very much physical traits. You cannot in any way compare personality and mental traits to the physical aspects of a person. Those less tangible parts of us are very much open to tweaking and influencing, whereas no matter how often someone tells you to have bright red eyes it's not likely to happen


If they are not attracted to other guys then they are not gay. I have already given examples of men and women who have had families, lived the lie and then came out as gay because thats what they truly were and always will be.

My friend's mum was married for years and years, had 3 kids, and only a couple of years after her divorce did she come out as a lesbian. Now mayhap she was confused and all that at first but she (being an extremely extroverted person) wouldn't have consciously blocked her sexuality, especially for such a great amount of time. You can in no possible way prove that she was "always" and "truly" gay

[Hellspencer]

people are not born gay!

[Kyle]

people are not born gay!

I concur

[Janet Snakehole]

yeah, i really think the environment surrounding you kinda helps determine your sexuality. i mean nobody in my family (as far back as i know) has been gay apart from myself. i live in blackpool hahaha, we're all pretty gay here!

[ifuseekamy]

Yes they pretended, still were doing straight things. So they were straight.
Look this is just how I would see things, I don't know why I had to be completely argued with.
Because being gay and acting stereotypically gay are two different things. What you're describing is a closet case.

[NIKKEE]

Because being gay and acting stereotypically gay are two different things. What you're describing is a closet case.
I said many times after this that that's not what I'm talking about. I'm just saying that I'd call them straight at that time.

[Hazza]

I said many times after this that that's not what I'm talking about. I'm just saying that I'd call them straight at that time.
Yeah you'd call them straight cos' you wouldn't know any different - Just like before people come out, they are 'straight' because no one knows - but they are actually gay.

Anyway, I believe both contribute to it - you are born gay but the environment obviously plays a part to how you go about it ect.

[Skuxx]

THIS THREAD FRIGGN ANNOYS ME
there is so much ignorance in the pages that i actually bothered to read that it makes me want to explode
you ARE born with an inclination towards fancying certain things about people (including their sex).. that's just how it is. everyone is technically ABLE to like people of the same or opposite gender.. people just have their preferences. people often don't recognize these preferences until they begin to mature and develop sexually and emotionally.
oh, and by the way, i have five siblings and all of them are straight, whereas i'm bi and in a long-term relationship with a girl. we were all brought up in the same environment, so that shatters that argument.

[lick]

THIS THREAD FRIGGN ANNOYS ME
there is so much ignorance in the pages that i actually bothered to read that it makes me want to explode
you ARE born with an inclination towards fancying certain things about people (including their sex).. that's just how it is. everyone is technically ABLE to like people of the same or opposite gender.. people just have their preferences. people often don't recognize these preferences until they begin to mature and develop sexually and emotionally.
oh, and by the way, i have five siblings and all of them are straight, whereas i'm bi and in a long-term relationship with a girl. we were all brought up in the same environment, so that shatters that argument.

You can be attracted to girls if your gay but that does not mean you wanna have sex with them...

and bi people are half way there xo

[Clowgon]

5? :O Jesus.

[Soy]

what does it matter?

your still a miner

[Clowgon]

And the point your trying to put across... is?

[FlyingJesus]

THIS THREAD FRIGGN ANNOYS ME
there is so much ignorance in the pages that i actually bothered to read that it makes me want to explode
you ARE born with an inclination towards fancying certain things about people (including their sex).. that's just how it is. everyone is technically ABLE to like people of the same or opposite gender.. people just have their preferences. people often don't recognize these preferences until they begin to mature and develop sexually and emotionally.
oh, and by the way, i have five siblings and all of them are straight, whereas i'm bi and in a long-term relationship with a girl. we were all brought up in the same environment, so that shatters that argument.

What annoys me is people so stupid that they can't even take on board simple facts and logic, who refuse to change their minds even when proven wrong because they are just too stubborn.

When you are born you're a purely instinctive being, you only want to live. Nature shows that preservation of the self and preservation of the species are the foremost instincts innate to all living things, and preservation of the species of course entails mating, so while obviously we aren't born with sexual urges as our bodies can't do it at that age we almost certainly aren't born to be gay.

As for you "shattering" the argument, you should probably try reading the thread first or at least applying some logic to your reasoning. There is no way that you have had the exact same experiences as your 5 siblings, and you won't process your experiences in the same way as them either because you have different (although potentially similar) brains

[Kyle]

THIS THREAD FRIGGN ANNOYS ME
there is so much ignorance in the pages that i actually bothered to read that it makes me want to explode
you ARE born with an inclination towards fancying certain things about people (including their sex).. that's just how it is. everyone is technically ABLE to like people of the same or opposite gender.. people just have their preferences. people often don't recognize these preferences until they begin to mature and develop sexually and emotionally.
oh, and by the way, i have five siblings and all of them are straight, whereas i'm bi and in a long-term relationship with a girl. we were all brought up in the same environment, so that shatters that argument.

or maybe you're just bi because you want to stand out and be different.

[Mickword]

I agree, you can be 'born' gay or bi, you have to turn like that, through you experiences and you child hood stuff like that!

[lick]

I agree, you can be 'born' gay or bi, you have to turn like that, through you experiences and you child hood stuff like that!

do what things? having bum sex with a male? i dont think so.. i still think your born like that

[GordonBanks]

Lip balm is the only known cure for homosexuality.


Edited by Catzsy [Forum Super Moderator]: Please do not make pointless posts that do not add anything constructive to the thread. Thanks.

[luce]

I disagree with this theory. For me personally it was down to the social environment that i grew up in.

There's all sorts of theory's out that that suggests why people are gay but there's a lot that i don't agree with, there's some that could be a possibility.

Do you agree that people are born Gay?

Nature or Nurture argument really. Personally i think it's nurture because everyone is born straight it's human nature :)

[kuzkasate]

Well when I was like in Year8-9 we took the mick out of this gay teacher. And some teacher walks up to us and goes "You never know if your gay unless you experience it."

But why WOULD you experience it unless you are gay? Your not exactly going to have bum fun to see if you like it and see if your gay... if you agreeded to bumfun that already makes you gay :S

[Technologic]

All I know is i'm gay. I don't care why or how, i quite like it.

[GommeInc]

Sexuality is a difficult subject to talk about, especially with genetics and social factors (though arguably, proven as genetic). Loads of straight males may have, or have had, sex with another man as part of experimentation or because they were in a bad state of mind. Some men take rejection by a woman badly, and find themselves doing crazy things - buying stuff they don't need, going crazy by turning reclusive and having sex with more than one person of which may involve the same sex.

I disagree with the genetic AND the social sides, simply because the world is not black and white, so neither should sexuality. Some men or women may find comfort in someone of the same sex, and "magic" might happen - whether it be a one night stand or the F buddy. It's technically what is considered "gay" or "bi", but some people only seek feelings in just one person of the same gender, bringing in a debate of "Is this gay? He/she only slept with him/her once, does this make him gay?" The answer is simply no. It's the same argument with phobias, some people who are scared of spiders may not necessarily be scared of all spiders, or spiders in a certain comfort zone, but they will still be considered to have a fear of spiders in general to save having to write out the complications. It's like some claustophobic(sp?) people are frightened of enclosed spaces in general, but in some instances they may not be if for example, the enclosed room is of comfort to them. Although not necessarily the same, it follows the same basic principal. Homosexuality and bisexuality, even heterosexuality, develop and change over time - people who have sex with lots of women, or have strong feelings for women, may find themselves gay in the future as time develops, though arguably they always have that "air" to them :P


Well when I was like in Year8-9 we took the mick out of this gay teacher. And some teacher walks up to us and goes "You never know if your gay unless you experience it."

But why WOULD you experience it unless you are gay? Your not exactly going to have bum fun to see if you like it and see if your gay... if you agreeded to bumfun that already makes you gay :S
I love your signature, it's so appropriate for this thread :P

Anyway, you can experience sex with another man if you're straight, some people (not all) experiment and may like it. The world is freaky in those cases - a man may have a girlfriend, but find himself having sex with a man, possibly through drink or if a mentally testing argument broke out between him and her :P

[ifuseekamy]

But why WOULD you experience it unless you are gay? Your not exactly going to have bum fun to see if you like it and see if your gay... if you agreeded to bumfun that already makes you gay :S
Look up prison rape, apparently **** sex is a way of asserting dominance.

[RandomManJay]

Well when I was like in Year8-9 we took the mick out of this gay teacher. And some teacher walks up to us and goes "You never know if your gay unless you experience it."

But why WOULD you experience it unless you are gay? Your not exactly going to have bum fun to see if you like it and see if your gay... if you agreeded to bumfun that already makes you gay :S

Some people are never sure about their sexuality, either through their experience or simply sexual confusion, also just because you agree to have sex with the same sex doesn't make you gay, it depends if you are physically aroused by it before, during or after it, if you aren't then you're not. People agree to do these things because of curiosity of what it would feel like, not because they're sexually aroused by it, why do some people engage in sadomasochism when it isn't their fetish, to see what its like, if they enjoy it, fine, but it they don't, at least they tried it so they know they don't like it.

Personally I don't care about the origins of sexuality, usually people do because they either don't understand it or want to justify that it is wrong or inferior to heterosexuality (sometimes not consciously I might add), sexuality is a combination of biology and social influence, but there isn't some gene that makes you gay otherwise I would be suprised they haven't found it. The main theory behind it is that the brain wires differently in a way that it impossible to identify or correct considering it is done during development, the different wiring simply means that different triggers activate certain areas of the brain, there is no right or wrong way around this, if it wasn't meant to happen, homosexuality would have ceased to exist ages ago, but homosexuals have the same stability and maturity every a mentally stable member of society. The shows that the brain is capable or operating in this way and that it is a correct form of operation. Social influence is a little more tricky as you have to separate who is mentally stable from those who aren't, for example; some people may exhibit symptoms of necrophilia or child molestation towards the same sex, although they may be homosexuals, their form of operation isn't capable of existing in our society, also these people most often then not have severe mental problems or biological causes and thus are incapable of living in a stable and moral soceity, if these problems weren't there, they would be just as stable and mature as everyone else. Other than that, the experience or introduction of homosexual tendancies can cause latent arousal triggers to become active and dominant, so the biology has always been there, just simply inactive due to the lack of social triggers.

[nooblah123]

Im not gay but I totally agree with this,

[Alkaz]

Arent you born with them genes and it either develops when you go into puberty or not?
My friend is gay and has GID, he never used to be, or well never said but he wasnt before so its hard to know really :(

[UKIP]

Nature or Nurture argument really. Personally i think it's nurture because everyone is born straight it's human nature :)

It isn't human nature to be just straight, hence why we have gay penguins and gay animals across the board. Nobody can influence what someone is attracted to, just like when eleven year olds first hit puberty they don't think deeply about what they are going to be attracted to, they just are.

[Heinous]

It isn't human nature to be just straight, hence why we have gay penguins and gay animals across the board. Nobody can influence what someone is attracted to, just like when eleven year olds first hit puberty they don't think deeply about what they are going to be attracted to, they just are.
Firstly, I have to say: I have no problem with homosexuals or bisexuals.

Now that's clear. You're a *REMOVED* It is genetically NATURAL to be straight. Just because something deviates from the norm, does not mean the norm is not normal. One could compare it to disabilities of sorts (see my first point again, this isn't an insult - merely a comparison).

No. Things do influence what people like. Our various senses, and sources, dictate everything we feel. We begin essentially as a blank state. Whatever reason someone uses an excuse, or reasoning to like their own sex, or the opposite sex (or fetishes, etc), has been caused by something. Cause and effect.

I personally treat homosexuals and bisexuals as I would any other person. If they're a decent person, I treat them decently. If they're a degradation to society, I treat them poorly (on the topic of equality; same with women - want equality, but take beneficial sexism happily).

I believe it is an absolute cop out to say "I was born this way", rather than metaphorically man up and say you chose to like a specific gender. I can, and will admit, I like girls because I want to.

(Also, yes. I'm aware being born straight contradicts choosing what gender you like. But m/f relationships procreate, the purpose of life. Whereas, f/f and m/m, do not.)

Post edited by iAdam (Forum Moderator); Please do not insult other forum members.

[RandomManJay]

Firstly, I have to say: I have no problem with homosexuals or bisexuals.

Now that's clear. You're a moron. It is genetically NATURAL to be straight. Just because something deviates from the norm, does not mean the norm is not normal. One could compare it to disabilities of sorts (see my first point again, this isn't an insult - merely a comparison).

No. Things do influence what people like. Our various senses, and sources, dictate everything we feel. We begin essentially as a blank state. Whatever reason someone uses an excuse, or reasoning to like their own sex, or the opposite sex (or fetishes, etc), has been caused by something. Cause and effect.

I personally treat homosexuals and bisexuals as I would any other person. If they're a decent person, I treat them decently. If they're a degradation to society, I treat them poorly (on the topic of equality; same with women - want equality, but take beneficial sexism happily).

I believe it is an absolute cop out to say "I was born this way", rather than metaphorically man up and say you chose to like a specific gender. I can, and will admit, I like girls because I want to.

(Also, yes. I'm aware being born straight contradicts choosing what gender you like. But m/f relationships procreate, the purpose of life. Whereas, f/f and m/m, do not.)

You've already made a massive mistake with everyone being born straight, we aren't born with innate sexual drive to mate with the opposite sex, that is reproductive drive which has been repressed due to our evolution, sexual drive has nothing to do with sexuality, sexual drive is the want and need for sexual gratification, not reproduction, if we were sexually active from birth, its reasonable to assume that we would try to have sex with anything that moves because our sexual drive would not have been supressed, nor maintained through the social complexities and repressed instictive drives that we have acheive through our evolution. We cannot engage this sexual drive as we are unable to mate from this age therefore our sexuality is not known as we cannot become sexually active by our triggers. When we reach the age that our sexual drive becomes active, the triggers become active and our sexuality becomes known to us, thats why people say you never know if they are straight or gay when they're a child because their sex drive isn't active yet and they aren't aroused by their triggers. Our reproductive drive is similar to this respect, considering we have reached a level in intelligence and social complexity that we are able to control our instictive drives (such as the drive to reproduce) hence we are able to decide whether or not to reproduce rather than it being instinctual like all other animals beneath us within the evolutionary chain. This suggests that there are animals within the animal kingdom which are homosexual, but as their instictive drives to reproduce are not supressed, they cannot choose whether to act on their triggers as they are required to reproduce.

Also in terms of being born as a blank slate, its known as the behavioural approach to development and that our personality and in your terms sexuality as well is defined and shaped by our environment, there has not been a successful link made between environment and sexuality (this is in terms of a mentally stable environment), also because you've suggested this approach, it means that our behaviour is capable of changing as well as our sexuality, something which has never been proven for our sexuality and is often taken as truth and fact in many Christian views as well as non-believers as an excuse to be homophobic and force others into believing that their sexuality is nothing more than being brought up incorrectly and that they should change in order to be happy.

I in no way think you're homophobic as you've said in your post, just putting forth the main reason why this approach is popular to many people as if means that homosexuals are the result of inproper factors and that it can be neutralised.

[ifuseekamy]

I believe it is an absolute cop out to say "I was born this way", rather than metaphorically man up and say you chose to like a specific gender. I can, and will admit, I like girls because I want to.
Most gays I know say they would choose to be straight if they could. I even know some who are frustrated because they want to live a "normal life" and have a white wedding and children.

[Hazza]

I believe it is an absolute cop out to say "I was born this way", rather than metaphorically man up and say you chose to like a specific gender. I can, and will admit, I like girls because I want to.
Thats totally false. Most gay guys I know, including me, would if we could be straight so what you're saying is ******** quite frankly!:P

[buttons]

Thats totally false. Most gay guys I know, including me, would if we could be straight so what you're saying is ******** quite frankly!:P
I don't understand when people say that, why, from a gay guys point of view, would you want to be straight? Is it because you think it's "normal", if it is then what Heinous says is true that it's because you're too cowardly to admit you like the same sex because that's what you're attracted to, otherwise I really can't see why you would rather want to like the girls instead of boys as though you're ashamed :S:S:S argh cba explaining :P

[Immenseman]

because being straight is far less hassle. nobody wants to be excluded or singled out in a negative light and unfortunately gay people are singled out in that way thus i also know many gays who wish that were straight and had the urge to go out and sleep with females, rather than males. however, they aren't and don't have such urges which excludes them from activities their friends and people around them are engaging in.

anyway, i don't think you're born gay. much more to do with upbringing and what happens around you in my opinion.

[GommeInc]

because being straight is far less hassle. nobody wants to be excluded or singled out in a negative light and unfortunately gay people are singled out in that way thus i also know many gays who wish that were straight and had the urge to go out and sleep with females, rather than males. however, they aren't and don't have such urges which excludes them from activities their friends and people around them are engaging in.

anyway, i don't think you're born gay. much more to do with upbringing and what happens around you in my opinion.
Bit in bold confuses me, are homosexuals handicapped? I'm sure a gay man can do the exact same things as a straight man can :P So what activities can a gay man not do with people around them? Straight orgies? Because that contradicts orgies in so many ways (considering they require more than 1 of each gender, which means 2 men or 2 women which kinda destroys the point of strict-sexuality) :P

[Immenseman]

no. however, do you think it's as easy to meet a lad (if you're gay) as opposed to a lady (for a straight guy). maybe in essex, not here in medieval devon :P

[UKIP]

Firstly, I have to say: I have no problem with homosexuals or bisexuals.

Now that's clear. You're a *REMOVED* It is genetically NATURAL to be straight. Just because something deviates from the norm, does not mean the norm is not normal. One could compare it to disabilities of sorts (see my first point again, this isn't an insult - merely a comparison).

No. Things do influence what people like. Our various senses, and sources, dictate everything we feel. We begin essentially as a blank state. Whatever reason someone uses an excuse, or reasoning to like their own sex, or the opposite sex (or fetishes, etc), has been caused by something. Cause and effect.

I personally treat homosexuals and bisexuals as I would any other person. If they're a decent person, I treat them decently. If they're a degradation to society, I treat them poorly (on the topic of equality; same with women - want equality, but take beneficial sexism happily).

I believe it is an absolute cop out to say "I was born this way", rather than metaphorically man up and say you chose to like a specific gender. I can, and will admit, I like girls because I want to.

(Also, yes. I'm aware being born straight contradicts choosing what gender you like. But m/f relationships procreate, the purpose of life. Whereas, f/f and m/m, do not.)

Post edited by iAdam (Forum Moderator); Please do not insult other forum members.

Indeed it is the normal to be straight, thats the majority. However it is down to genes, just like having brown eyes is, having black hair is, having a well built body is, being six foot tall rather than 5 foot tall is.

Do people with downs syndrome choose to have downs syndrome? - no.

You do not choose to like females.

When you were eleven did you suddenly decide one day "oh i'll like girls not boys" - you're talking absolute rubbish i'm afraid. Gay people, some of them are thrown out by their families, beat up, left by friends because they are gay - do you think they chose that?

[GommeInc]

no. however, do you think it's as easy to meet a lad (if you're gay) as opposed to a lady (for a straight guy). maybe in essex, not here in medieval devon :P
Awww, you poor thing ;) And apparently it's not that hard for our generation in controlled enviroments like nightclubs, universities and the work place. Hitting someone in the street doesn't tend to be the same as an invite to bed :P But of course, there are still that problem, then again, meeting someone in random places seems a bit odd :S It depends if you are out, and you get paired up or meet another out gay person, although I tend to have a dislike for people who you make good friends with, then when they come out they randomly choose to act as camp as chips. Tis frustrating :P

[FlyingJesus]

Indeed it is the normal to be straight, thats the majority. However it is down to genes, just like having brown eyes is, having black hair is, having a well built body is, being six foot tall rather than 5 foot tall is.

Do people with downs syndrome choose to have downs syndrome? - no.

You do not choose to like females.

That logic indicates that you therefore also believe that interests and specific concerning every interest (ie fetishes, preferred teams in preferred sports, musical tastes and so on) are genetic

[GommeInc]

That logic indicates that you therefore also believe that interests and specific concerning every interest (ie fetishes, preferred teams in preferred sports, musical tastes and so on) are genetic
I don't see the logic? Genetics tend to be the cause of brown eyes, black hair, downs syndrome and sometimes aspects like height and body build :S He didn't list any interests as far as I can see, or are you quoting a different post?

Oh wait, saw the female liking :P That's debateable, but plausible.

[UKIP]

That logic indicates that you therefore also believe that interests and specific concerning every interest (ie fetishes, preferred teams in preferred sports, musical tastes and so on) are genetic

That isn't genetic though, how did them gay penguins end up gay then?

.. did their parents make them play with barbie dolls?

[FlyingJesus]

I'm fairly sure the argument for gay animals is a built in part of the survival instinct that's triggered by overpopulation in an area - survival of the species is the absolute primal instinct above all others even preservation of the self, and overpopulation threatens that

[UKIP]

I'm fairly sure the argument for gay animals is a built in part of the survival instinct that's triggered by overpopulation in an area - survival of the species is the absolute primal instinct above all others even preservation of the self, and overpopulation threatens that

I believe thats maybe one of the reason for homosexuality in humans too, however that will be genetically triggered thus only strengthening the genetic argument.

[Immenseman]

they're talking about this on the surgery in radio1 right nowwwwww.

[FlyingJesus]

Had meant to point out that it's likely the case for humans too :P although I'd say it's definitely a case against genetics - all it means is that genetically we are all capable of being gay, but of course there is absolutely no way at birth of knowing that there are far too many humans around

[Hazza]

I don't understand when people say that, why, from a gay guys point of view, would you want to be straight? Is it because you think it's "normal", if it is then what Heinous says is true that it's because you're too cowardly to admit you like the same sex because that's what you're attracted to, otherwise I really can't see why you would rather want to like the girls instead of boys as though you're ashamed :S:S:S argh cba explaining :P
Is not that I don't want to be, tbh I really don't mind - I'm game for anything. I like being orginal and me being gay doesn't bother me at all - its just the **** that comes with it. Like Jake said, its far less hassle to be straight, simple as.

[Heinous]

You've already made a massive mistake with everyone being born straight, we aren't born with innate sexual drive to mate with the opposite sex, that is reproductive drive which has been repressed due to our evolution, sexual drive has nothing to do with sexuality, sexual drive is the want and need for sexual gratification, not reproduction, if we were sexually active from birth, its reasonable to assume that we would try to have sex with anything that moves because our sexual drive would not have been supressed, nor maintained through the social complexities and repressed instictive drives that we have acheive through our evolution. We cannot engage this sexual drive as we are unable to mate from this age therefore our sexuality is not known as we cannot become sexually active by our triggers. When we reach the age that our sexual drive becomes active, the triggers become active and our sexuality becomes known to us, thats why people say you never know if they are straight or gay when they're a child because their sex drive isn't active yet and they aren't aroused by their triggers. Our reproductive drive is similar to this respect, considering we have reached a level in intelligence and social complexity that we are able to control our instictive drives (such as the drive to reproduce) hence we are able to decide whether or not to reproduce rather than it being instinctual like all other animals beneath us within the evolutionary chain. This suggests that there are animals within the animal kingdom which are homosexual, but as their instictive drives to reproduce are not supressed, they cannot choose whether to act on their triggers as they are required to reproduce.

Also in terms of being born as a blank slate, its known as the behavioural approach to development and that our personality and in your terms sexuality as well is defined and shaped by our environment, there has not been a successful link made between environment and sexuality (this is in terms of a mentally stable environment), also because you've suggested this approach, it means that our behaviour is capable of changing as well as our sexuality, something which has never been proven for our sexuality and is often taken as truth and fact in many Christian views as well as non-believers as an excuse to be homophobic and force others into believing that their sexuality is nothing more than being brought up incorrectly and that they should change in order to be happy.

I in no way think you're homophobic as you've said in your post, just putting forth the main reason why this approach is popular to many people as if means that homosexuals are the result of inproper factors and that it can be neutralised.
I say born straight because we're born to reproduce. Meaning of life (well, you know). Homosexuality blatantly defies that. My understanding of the human brain is vastly greater than my understanding of animal brains, sorry.

Our behavior is capable of change. People change. You've never seen the links between people being raised in a crappy environment turning out.. less advantages than those in a good environment? I also don't think there's been a proven link between genes and homosexuality.

I'm not saying "watch girl shows and you'll turn gay", but I'm most certainly not saying "once your born, your sexual taste is predetermined". Being gay seems to be a current trend. Compare the amount of open gays now, to 10 years ago, to 50, to 100, to 500. Yes, closet gayness is a factor. But it seems so many more are gay now.

Most gays I know say they would choose to be straight if they could. I even know some who are frustrated because they want to live a "normal life" and have a white wedding and children.
Then why the hell are they gay? God that's stupid.

Thats totally false. Most gay guys I know, including me, would if we could be straight so what you're saying is ******** quite frankly!:P
See the immediate above..

Indeed it is the normal to be straight, thats the majority. However it is down to genes, just like having brown eyes is, having black hair is, having a well built body is, being six foot tall rather than 5 foot tall is.

Do people with downs syndrome choose to have downs syndrome? - no.

You do not choose to like females.

When you were eleven did you suddenly decide one day "oh i'll like girls not boys" - you're talking absolute rubbish i'm afraid. Gay people, some of them are thrown out by their families, beat up, left by friends because they are gay - do you think they chose that?
Bullcrap sexuality is in your genes. You think if your father is homosexual, you will be too? Or is it random chance? If it's random chance, it's not really a genetics thing.

No, however, I wouldn't consider homosexuality a disability either.

How the hell would you know? I also chose to experiment with males at a certain age. Through choice.

I did what I felt was natural, that's like females. Through upbringing, I felt it was natural. If I was surrounded by gay people, I possibly would've been more prone to being gay. It's easy to throw someone elses arguement out in favour of your own?

"I think this", "NO YOU DONT YOUR WRONG". Ignorant. Yes, gay people get treated differently, usually negatively. It's unfortunate, but fact of society. Do you choose to eat because of your bowel movements, or because you like the food?

That logic indicates that you therefore also believe that interests and specific concerning every interest (ie fetishes, preferred teams in preferred sports, musical tastes and so on) are genetic
<3

[RandomManJay]

I say born straight because we're born to reproduce. Meaning of life (well, you know). Homosexuality blatantly defies that. My understanding of the human brain is vastly greater than my understanding of animal brains, sorry.

Our behavior is capable of change. People change. You've never seen the links between people being raised in a crappy environment turning out.. less advantages than those in a good environment? I also don't think there's been a proven link between genes and homosexuality.

I'm not saying "watch girl shows and you'll turn gay", but I'm most certainly not saying "once your born, your sexual taste is predetermined". Being gay seems to be a current trend. Compare the amount of open gays now, to 10 years ago, to 50, to 100, to 500. Yes, closet gayness is a factor. But it seems so many more are gay now.

We are still animals, and of course we were created to reproduce, but the need to create offspring isn't active anymore, we choose when and whether to have children, our instincts don't drive us to do it otherwise every year we would all gather to mate and have our offspring 9 months later. This ability to suppress out basic insticts is a part of our evolution, creation of stable language, social complexes and overall intelligence, this is what sets us aside from all other animals as they have not reached this level in their evolution to suppress the very instincts which have given us the choice to mate.

I never suggested for a minute that genes has anything to do with homosexuality (read my first post), I do agree that society can influence homosexuality, but not in the way that is thought to be, our sexual triggers are in built within us during our development into an unborn baby while our sexual drive isn't active. The premise that everyone is born heterosexual is simply taken from years and years of homosexuality being considered being a choice considering heterosexuals didn't choose to become homosexuals, so the choice becomes whether to be heterosexual naturally or choose to homosexual to defy the norm and be different, not the choosing of being one or another or either or both. No one knows what they are going to be sexually aroused by until they reach the age that they are capable of become sexually aroused, so essentially your sexuality is always there, just not present until you can get sexually aroused. We do not choose our triggers, our minds would be unable to choose them at the age puberty begins, even as an adult we would be unable to choose them as they are the very foundation of what actives our suppressed sexual drive.

I'll just say a couple of things which have influenced the increase in people coming out:

- As you say it, it is a current trend.
- Homosexuality is now more accepted than it was 40 years ago when it was legalised, there are still many people who refuse to come out because of the fear that is still present in society.
- Technoligical influence, this is basically the same but to a degree different. You can be anyone you want on the internet, even your true self, if people who don't even know you accept you, then it makes you more confident with those you do know you and you are more comfortable about coming out.

It is true that homosexuality is a trend of the modern age, but 20 years ago it was even more popular, and even then the amount of people who have came out has increased even while the trend has died down almost entirely. You can't simply that we choose our sexuality, otherwise a lot of homosexuals would change, and many have tried, but in the end it doesn't work, either its through the nurture arguement, which puts the blame on anyone else but you, the choice arguement which puts all the blame on you, or your biological development during pregnancy which puts the blame on no one. These arguements are still out, but whats difficult is deciding whats simply assumption to what is logically plausable.

No one knows the true origins of our sexuality, but puttng that you have chosen to be attracted to women only compells me to ask you to test out your theory, try to be sexual attracted to men, just once, make that choice and see if it works, if you can do that, then obviously you can go back to women in a snap, I can tell you, I've known people who have tried in both sexualities, but in the end have failed.

[UKIP]

Bullcrap sexuality is in your genes. You think if your father is homosexual, you will be too? Or is it random chance? If it's random chance, it's not really a genetics thing.

No, however, I wouldn't consider homosexuality a disability either.

How the hell would you know? I also chose to experiment with males at a certain age. Through choice.

I did what I felt was natural, that's like females. Through upbringing, I felt it was natural. If I was surrounded by gay people, I possibly would've been more prone to being gay. It's easy to throw someone elses arguement out in favour of your own?

"I think this", "NO YOU DONT YOUR WRONG". Ignorant. Yes, gay people get treated differently, usually negatively. It's unfortunate, but fact of society. Do you choose to eat because of your bowel movements, or because you like the food?

Ohh my god.

You think if your father is homosexual, you will be too?
- Have gay guys all sprouted wombs because i'm pretty sure to have kids you need to be straight, of course their are exceptions which i'll get onto now.

If it's random chance, it's not really a genetics thing.
- Genetics are random, like the random fact that you could have brown eyes or blue eyes, could be hairy or not hairy, could have darker skin or lighter skin.

Do you choose to eat because of your bowel movements, or because you like the food?
- We like food because as clever species we can make that choice, however its instinct to eat otherwise we wouldn't do it, just like its instinct to be attracted to girls or guys - all of which is influenced by genes.

[Hazza]

Then why the hell are they gay? God that's stupid.
Are you that stupid that you think you can turn around and go "Right, I'm straight now!" - If you are then god help you. :rolleyes:

[Heinous]

Ohh my god.

You think if your father is homosexual, you will be too?
- Have gay guys all sprouted wombs because i'm pretty sure to have kids you need to be straight, of course their are exceptions which i'll get onto now.

If it's random chance, it's not really a genetics thing.
- Genetics are random, like the random fact that you could have brown eyes or blue eyes, could be hairy or not hairy, could have darker skin or lighter skin.

Do you choose to eat because of your bowel movements, or because you like the food?
- We like food because as clever species we can make that choice, however its instinct to eat otherwise we wouldn't do it, just like its instinct to be attracted to girls or guys - all of which is influenced by genes.
No because your theory of being "born gay" would mean that in the past, there's been gays who for whatever reason, "acted straight". Which can very well lead to children. My point stands though.

Hmm, no they aren't. If your parents both have hazel eyes, VERY likely you will too. People who have heart complications in their family? More prone to it. If two black people have a child, the baby is going to be black. So don't be so stupid as to say genetics are random.

Yes, but my comparison was food = sexuality, bowel movements = 'negative' side effects for gays, and eating out of instinct = reproducing out of instinct. WHY WOULD SOMEONE CHOOSE TO BE GAY BECAUSE OF ALL THE PREJUDICE?

Are you that stupid that you think you can turn around and go "Right, I'm straight now!" - If you are then god help you. :rolleyes:
Oh, you're Christian?

You're really so gutless that you think that because you like a certain gender, it was pre-determined at birth/conception, and you will forever like that gender, because you have absolutely no control over your mind or body?

[Black_Apalachi]

In psychology we were taught that it's to do with how you were brought up and nothing to do with being born either 'gay' or 'straight'

We weren't taught a definitive answer one way or the other though? It's all part of the nature/nurture debate and there's support and criticisms of each.

Weren't you taught about that Brian/Brenda fella? When he was born, he needed some sort of laser surgery or something on his penis but the doctor somehow accidentally removed (most of) his penis. Anyway, his mother decided to then bring him up as a girl (don't ask me why lol :P). So she changed his name from Brian to Brenda and bought him girl's toys and clothes. However he never fitted in with anyone and once he grew up he chose to change back to Brian and live like a man and eventually got married to a woman.

So this supports the nature debate as even though this guy was brought up as a girl from practically birth, his own feelings and instincts led him to go back to living as a male and being attracted to females.

On the other hand, there was a guy in my year at school (who was a bit weird tbf) but although he'd never had a girlfriend, he was seemingly straight. It got to sixth form, and he asked a couple of different girls out (apparently he was really needy about it, like 'pleeeaseeee' :rolleyes:) but later on after no success, he suddenly claimed to be "bi". Then eventually he announced he was gay and now whenever I see him he's always reminding people of how he's "gay". Every so often on Facebook I see he has some random "boyfriend" but they just look as weird has he does really.

I think in this case, he has clearly chosen but then again, I think it's a bit of an unlikely case anyway as it seems he just turned to another solution to being rejected all the time. So although very weakly, this supports the nurture side as his "decision" was affected by his environment and personal experiences.

By the way, do any gay people notice that with other gay people where they always seem to have to remind people that they are gay? And there's also that voice that a lot of gay people seem to have. I know this doesn't apply to all but I'm just wondering what others think of it?

[ifuseekamy]

I think in this case, he has clearly chosen but then again, I think it's a bit of an unlikely case anyway as it seems he just turned to another solution to being rejected all the time. So although very weakly, this supports the nurture side as his "decision" was affected by his environment and personal experiences.
Just sounds like a typical closeted gay. Put it this way, do you think changing your sexuality on your social networking profile means that you'll suddenly be turned on by and get an erection from looking at men? (assuming you're straight of couse).

[Black_Apalachi]

No lol. I don't think that's what I said but OK :P.

[RandomManJay]

By the way, do any gay people notice that with other gay people where they always seem to have to remind people that they are gay? And there's also that voice that a lot of gay people seem to have. I know this doesn't apply to all but I'm just wondering what others think of it?

I'm not actually gay, but I have noticed it with some people, like they were expecting a bigger response to them coming out and when they didn't get it they think either they don't believe them or they simply don't know or forgot etc. so they feel compelled to tell everyone over and over again (lol). I've also noticed it usually occurs when they're seen to be obviously gay but never come out until later on in life when people have already accepted the possiblity that they are and have gotten used to it. Also some gay people sort of go from one extreme to the other when it comes to coming out, like they're repressing their sexuality so much that they hide their natural behaviour and when they come out, they go to this uber-gay persona, its a little annoying to be honast cause its like they think there is the image of homosexuality which much be fulfilled when to be honast there isn't one these days, also I don't think many homosexuals want to go out with a man whose so feminine it would be like ******** a woman with a penis.

[FlyingJesus]

Genetics are random, like the random fact that you could have brown eyes or blue eyes, could be hairy or not hairy, could have darker skin or lighter skin.

Genetics is a science, you can predetermine to quite some degree how they will pan out. Two parents with black hair are unlikely to produce a blonde baby because that is a recessive gene, and random differences in genes are not all that common. There is no way to say that gene pooling is a random thing


We like food because as clever species we can make that choice, however its instinct to eat otherwise we wouldn't do it, just like its instinct to be attracted to girls or guys - all of which is influenced by genes.

Instinct as far as I'm aware is an innate brain function rather than a genetic property


Weren't you taught about that Brian/Brenda fella? When he was born, he needed some sort of laser surgery or something on his penis but the doctor somehow accidentally removed (most of) his penis. Anyway, his mother decided to then bring him up as a girl (don't ask me why lol :P). So she changed his name from Brian to Brenda and bought him girl's toys and clothes. However he never fitted in with anyone and once he grew up he chose to change back to Brian and live like a man and eventually got married to a woman.

So this supports the nature debate as even though this guy was brought up as a girl from practically birth, his own feelings and instincts led him to go back to living as a male and being attracted to females.

Actually it's in support of neither as it was a medical mistake - he still had the chemical makeup of a male despite not having a penis. There's no proof that bringing up a boy in female way (ie: in dresses playing with dolls) will make anyone gay, it's just stereotyping that suggests gay males are effeminate

[VirtualG]

I think saying that you are being born straight or gay is pretty nieve. Humans, like all animals, have a natural instinct to reproduce and keep your blood line going although Humans, along with bottle nose dolphins (The only other animal out there) enjoy intercourse and maybe attracted to the same sex for whatever reason. I, therefore, believe it's a much larger "nurture" factor rather than nature. And by nurture I mean your surrounding environment and how it influences you, not just how you were brought up eg. A sailor maybe be straight but after seeing nothing but men for a year he may get some urges... Saying that someone is born one way or another is not right then. If you were gay and then cought amnesia you would probably become straight again as you do not remember the events that influenced you one way or another and would most likely be straight as that what the majority of the population is and is expected to be so you would naturally assume your apart of that majoritye, unless a male streaker just ran past and you got bumpy :P Ohh, and saying that it's genetics cant really be correct as gay people cant have children togther naturally so therefore they cant pass on the gene unless they have a test tube baby or they had a child before being gay, and how often will that happen?

[Fart]

Lmao@ this
Its different genes to straight people, cant control it.

[FlyingJesus]

You say that as though you believe that genes are the only thing beyond our control

[RandomManJay]

You say that as though you believe that genes are the only thing beyond our control

I couldn't tell is he was LMAOing at the genes thing or if he was serious.

[Jorc]

I believe people are born gay, why would you choose to be hated by practically everyone? just for fun? Def born with it.

[Immenseman]

I believe people are born gay, why would you choose to be hated by practically everyone? just for fun? Def born with it.
being gay isn't some sort of medical condition y'kno.

i don't think you're born gay but rather it's more to do with your upbringing.

[Black_Apalachi]

[...] Actually it's in support of neither as it was a medical mistake - he still had the chemical makeup of a male despite not having a penis. There's no proof that bringing up a boy in female way (ie: in dresses playing with dolls) will make anyone gay, it's just stereotyping that suggests gay males are effeminate

It's prefect support for the nature debate because it agrees with the bold :S.

[Technologic]

In my mind Homosexuals are gay, Gays are homosexual and that's all that matters.

If people choose to be gay, fine.
If people are born gay, fine.
If their surroundings make people gay, fine.

Some people are gay, get over it

[Kardan]

I think it's more social upbringing rather than biological and genetic, but thats an opinion from a straight male, so not much use really.

I can't really see how it's genetic though, assuming it's the same prinicipal as something such as hair colour then:

Our parents would each have two chromosomes of sexuality, each one either being straight, bisexual, gay and the millions of other possibilies. Assuming that being straight is dominant over the gay gene (Since it's fair to say there are a lot more straight people in the world than gay, just like there are a lot more brown haired people than ginger, since ginger is resessive)...

That means, for a person to be born gay, they're mother and father must have one gay gene and one other gene (presumably straight since they've gave birth to a child, but with technology these days it's not neccessarily true) and that each parent passed down their gay gene to give the child two chromosomes: gay and gay - to make them born gay?

Although if it is genetics, it is perfectly possible that a person can be born gay from straight parents, assuming the gene is recessive - just like how I'm ginger and neither of my parents are ginger.

Personally it seems unrealistic to me it's like that, sexuality is psychological, so it's a state of mind and preference, for example if you like marmite or not - rather than some physical, if you have brown or blue eyes. Just my opinion.

[RandomManJay]

I think it's more social upbringing rather than biological and genetic, but thats an opinion from a straight male, so not much use really.

I can't really see how it's genetic though, assuming it's the same prinicipal as something such as hair colour then:

Our parents would each have two chromosomes of sexuality, each one either being straight, bisexual, gay and the millions of other possibilies. Assuming that being straight is dominant over the gay gene (Since it's fair to say there are a lot more straight people in the world than gay, just like there are a lot more brown haired people than ginger, since ginger is resessive)...

That means, for a person to be born gay, they're mother and father must have one gay gene and one other gene (presumably straight since they've gave birth to a child, but with technology these days it's not neccessarily true) and that each parent passed down their gay gene to give the child two chromosomes: gay and gay - to make them born gay?

Although if it is genetics, it is perfectly possible that a person can be born gay from straight parents, assuming the gene is recessive - just like how I'm ginger and neither of my parents are ginger.

Personally it seems unrealistic to me it's like that, sexuality is psychological, so it's a state of mind and preference, for example if you like marmite or not - rather than some physical, if you have brown or blue eyes. Just my opinion.

Don't assume that biology is the same as genetics, genetics is a section of biology which is considered as an explanation for sexuality, there are still many other sections to biology which is considered as an explanation, like brain development during pregnancy and physiological differences within the brain (such as shape or neurological processes and impulses), all of which genetics only holds the base blueprints for the creation and holds no impact on how it develops or what occurs during after birth. So biology and social influences can play equal parts in the explanation of sexuality, but if biology is the base, it means that society determines whether or not your sexuality will become known to you.

[UKIP]

Would anyone like to explain what the parents of the gay penguins did to make them gay?

[Kardan]

Don't assume that biology is the same as genetics, genetics is a section of biology which is considered as an explanation for sexuality, there are still many other sections to biology which is considered as an explanation, like brain development during pregnancy and physiological differences within the brain (such as shape or neurological processes and impulses), all of which genetics only holds the base blueprints for the creation and holds no impact on how it develops or what occurs during after birth. So biology and social influences can play equal parts in the explanation of sexuality, but if biology is the base, it means that society determines whether or not your sexuality will become known to you.

Hmm, yeah, that sounds about right :P

But I think it's about social upbringing rather than the actual DNA of a person, and that sexuality isn't determined at birth.

[RandomManJay]

Hmm, yeah, that sounds about right :P

But I think it's about social upbringing rather than the actual DNA of a person, and that sexuality isn't determined at birth.

I agree with you there, if there was only two sides to the arguement, DNA or Society, I would agree with society, I think its impossible for there to be a 'gay gene' considering we would have already found it and theres no knowing who is gay and who is straight until they tell us etc. :P.

[Xoim]

I agree with you there, if there was only two sides to the arguement, DNA or Society, I would agree with society, I think its impossible for there to be a 'gay gene' considering we would have already found it and theres no knowing who is gay and who is straight until they tell us etc. :P.

I'm bi, but like I realised that not so long ago ALOT off my friends started coming out...
LOL!
But yeah its who your with and what your surroundings are like.

Kinda weird :L

[TickTockTickTock]

I don't think so.

edit; oops thought i was in this thread http://www.habboxforum.com/showthread.php?t=627127 sorry.