Does a Habbo Radio need a license?

[HabsAZillion]

Hi. I've decided to bypass all the contacting Ofcom and PRS and whatever to find out the question I'm actually quite worried about:
Do you need a license to stream music over the Internet on a Habbo Radio? I'm signed up with the ShoutCAST server provider Infusion Hosting, they have nothing about needing a license. But I heard that non-profit websites need an Internet Broadcasting license. Is this true for a Habbo Radio? Please respond, a lot of you must be radio owners.

Thank you,
HabsAZillion/DJ Habzz

[Keri?!]

Yes. You do.
PPL License, I think it is.

[HabsAZillion]

Yes. You do.
PPL License, I think it is.
Are you saying that a site like Habbox, HFFM, even HabboTBH or whatever need to spend £175 just to have a good site? If I moved my shoutcast servers to one outside the UK would I be ok? Are there any discounted licenses because it sounds like a waste of money for it.

[Richie]

P.P.L Cannot do anything but nag at you.

[Calvin]

Habbo fansites didnt have a radio license from when the first habbo radio started till 2008, so I don't know what the big deal is now.

[HabsAZillion]

P.P.L Cannot do anything but nag at you.

Well it is a licensing thing. And you are the one out of two owners of HabboTBH.


Habbo fansites didnt have a radio license from when the first habbo radio started till 2008, so I don't know what the big deal is now.

Okay, so I have one yes from an HxL Radio DJ and two sorta no's from the owners of HabboTBH. Infusion Hosting have their T&Cs "temporarly closed for mantanence". I'm guessing HabboTBH, HabboxLive, HFFM, whatever, don't have £107 licenses. I guess that brings me to a conclusion of "It is possible to do it but it may be illegal". I really don't want to get caught. So... wth should I do. The site opens sometime in Autumn 2009 so I have quite a long time to decide. Please please please please please someone help me.

[Richie]

For those sending me all this abuse via pm's and messenger and what not saying i need a licence and crap this is what you do ok.. google P.P.L email them... saying HabboTBH is broadcasting illegally and lets see what happens ok.


EDIT : here you go :D http://www.ppluk.com/

Oh wait even so... i still can't get in trouble theres no online radio laws in Ireland and that's were i live so its cool :D

[nooblah123]

tbh the whole licence thing has just gone out of hand since it started. It has been closing alot of habbo fansites down which isnt good, but PPLUK just expect teenagers to pay that much money? its just stupid :l

[Calvin]

Look, Habbo Fansites have been running like 5 years now? with radios? only in 2008/early 2009 i think, don't know the PPL crap started going around. Why worry now?

[Richie]

They just want the money that school teens just don't have

[DJDynamix]

Are you saying that a site like Habbox, HFFM, even HabboTBH or whatever need to spend £175 just to have a good site? If I moved my shoutcast servers to one outside the UK would I be ok? Are there any discounted licenses because it sounds like a waste of money for it.

HabboTBH im not quite sure you can add that one to your list lol

Edited by MattGarner (Forum Manager): Please do not try and be rude in your post.

[Richie]

HabboTBH im not quite sure you can add that one to your list lol

Don't be so rude, please don't start taking this thread off topic. He was giving examples.

[DJDynamix]

Don't be so rude, please don't start taking this thread off topic. He was giving examples.


God sorry?

[Heinous]

For those sending me all this abuse via pm's and messenger and what not saying i need a licence and crap this is what you do ok.. google P.P.L email them... saying HabboTBH is broadcasting illegally and lets see what happens ok.


EDIT : here you go :D http://www.ppluk.com/

Oh wait even so... i still can't get in trouble theres no online radio laws in Ireland and that's were i live so its cool :D
You need to learn a bit about copyright law and jurisdictions before giving advice on it.

Copyright laws apply to streaming music due to the fact you're, get this right, streaming copyrighted material. Licenses allow you to do this.

Given InfusionHosting is in GB, it falls under their laws. Not where YOU'RE located. Due to you being out their jurisdiction, this means you're pretty much clear for personal liability. However, can in a heartbeat get your hosting suspended/terminated. (Copyright law on the internet is serious business; look at DMCA takedowns)

Also worth noting that frequently (for awhile, not sure about know) that the shoutCAST providers purchases/acquired/whatever a license, removing the need for the end customer to get one.

[Richie]

You need to learn a bit about copyright law and jurisdictions before giving advice on it.

Copyright laws apply to streaming music due to the fact you're, get this right, streaming copyrighted material. Licenses allow you to do this.

Given InfusionHosting is in GB, it falls under their laws. Not where YOU'RE located. Due to you being out their jurisdiction, this means you're pretty much clear for personal liability. However, can in a heartbeat get your hosting suspended/terminated. (Copyright law on the internet is serious business; look at DMCA takedowns)

Also worth noting that frequently (for awhile, not sure about know) that the shoutCAST providers purchases/acquired/whatever a license, removing the need for the end customer to get one.


Yeah i know if the servers are in the uk i can get in trouble because its there laws however i don't really care if anyone contacts p.p.l, its not like they can do anything and if my site was closed down surely so will all the rest, habbox, hffm and kisshabbo are all most likely not licensed. Also my host is not InfusionHosting anymore.

[HabsAZillion]

Well some idiot (either the coowner had a tantrum about Skizzling saying 2008 not 2009, which makes him think they made the law like yesterday, or someone hacked in) removed all the files from my hosting account, even the cgi-bin and stuff like that, so it doesn't really matter. I do have the files backed up on my PC but the idiot removed the raw files which makes the server a pile of junk. So until I get that fixed it doesn't really matter)

Oh and by the way DarkEnemy is right. I read somewhere it is where you are economically located (which means where you live). At least I think so, especially as Ireland uses a different currency.

[Heinous]

Yeah i know if the servers are in the uk i can get in trouble because its there laws however i don't really care if anyone contacts p.p.l, its not like they can do anything and if my site was closed down surely so will all the rest, habbox, hffm and kisshabbo are all most likely not licensed. Also my host is not InfusionHosting anymore.
That's only because Ireland would fall under UK jurisdiction. However, if you were in say China, you would have to be chased up under Chinese law, which is obviously different.

Technically they can do stuff. As I said, copyright law online is taken seriously.

I don't think you can really assume EVERY ONLINE RADIO is unlicensed. Chances are, they are (like I also said, a lot of providers take care of this themself).

And I didn't know you were with Infusion at all, I was just going off what OP said.

Well some idiot (either the coowner had a tantrum about Skizzling saying 2008 not 2009, which makes him think they made the law like yesterday, or someone hacked in) removed all the files from my hosting account, even the cgi-bin and stuff like that, so it doesn't really matter. I do have the files backed up on my PC but the idiot removed the raw files which makes the server a pile of junk. So until I get that fixed it doesn't really matter)

Oh and by the way DarkEnemy is right. I read somewhere it is where you are economically located (which means where you live). At least I think so, especially as Ireland uses a different currency.
Contact your host regarding it. If they removed your files due to copyright, they should of already notified you.

Right about what exactly? Economic location is one of the stupidest terms I've ever heard. Jurisdiction is based on governments; local, state, federal, etc. NOT CURRENCY.

[Richie]

That's only because Ireland would fall under UK jurisdiction. However, if you were in say China, you would have to be chased up under Chinese law, which is obviously different..



We do not in anyway fall under the UK category. Northern Ireland do but not the republic of Ireland doesn't. I get really annoyed when people assume I'm from the UK when I'm not, I'm from Republic of Ireland its a whole different country, Ireland may Copy the English laws but they have there own laws and this one law about online radios is not in Ireland. Fair enough if it is were the server is hosted, but if not il have no trouble at all.

[Heinous]

We do not in anyway fall under the UK category. Northern Ireland do but not the republic of Ireland doesn't. I get really annoyed when people assume I'm from the UK when I'm not, I'm from Republic of Ireland its a whole different country, Ireland may Copy the English laws but they have there own laws and this one law about online radios is not in Ireland. Fair enough if it is were the server is hosted, but if not il have no trouble at all.
My apologies, as I don't actually know much about Ireland.

However, do you really think Irish copyright law has no problem with broadcasting copyrighted material?

[Richie]

My apologies, as I don't actually know much about Ireland.

However, do you really think Irish copyright law has no problem with broadcasting copyrighted material?


I was doing allot of research last night and today yet couldn't find anything, perhaps it will be inforced in the future if theres not a law already. Also apology accepted sorry i just get worked up when someone calls me English, its just like calling a Scottish person English they get stressed out :P.

[Black_Apalachi]

I know about other fansites but I don't know why you're all assuming Habbox isn't licensed. It can easily afford to so I'm sure it is.

[Richie]

I know about other fansites but I don't know why you're all assuming Habbox isn't licensed. It can easily afford to so I'm sure it is.


Well because they would have to pay loads... just say 2grand cos they have been broadcasting illegally for so long, i don't think sierk would hand over 2 grand or even a grand

[bub,is,rockin]

Well because they would have to pay loads... just say 2grand cos they have been broadcasting illegally for so long, i don't think sierk would hand over 2 grand or even a grand

Exactly no one who is running a Habbo Fansite would thats just stupid...


I know about other fansites but I don't know why you're all assuming Habbox isn't licensed. It can easily afford to so I'm sure it is.

Tbh do you actually have proof that Hx is licensed? :P

I've emailed PPLuk asking about what the laws and that are so when i get a reply ill post it in this forum :)

[bub,is,rockin]

Ok got an email back. Like all people have been supposing it IS illegal to run a radio online without a liecense.




Dear Josh,



Thanks for your email. I believe we last spoke in February of this year so I have forwarded that correspondence which covers the points you raise again in your most recent email (start at the bottom and scroll up).



Any person that wishes to stream copyright-protected sound recordings as part of an online radio service needs to have the relevant licences in place to do so. Failure to get those licences may result in an infringement of that copyright.



Kind Regards,



Natalie





Dear Josh,



Many thanks for your email.




Please be advised that licensing music usage is very much a legal issue. This is the law, and licensing online radio services has been going on for a very long time - this is not a new scheme and PPL has not just decided to target Habbo for the sake of it. I tried to contact a large number of Habbo sites over the last quarter of 2008, but did not get a response from a single station. As a last resort I contacted Sulake directly to resolve the matter, which is why last week they emailed a number of services. Interestingly, a number of Habbo forums have threads discussing licensing (and that mention PPL) dating back to 2007.



I'd like to clarify absolutely, that streaming music as part of an online radio service without a licence is an infringement of copyright. PPL is a not-for-profit company; we license all kinds of music usage and then collect and distribute the royalties to our members, the rightful copyright owners. If you are particularly interested in the laws and legal requirements that govern PPL please see the Office of Public Sector Information website for information on the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act:




http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts1988/UKpga_19880048_en_1.htm (http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts1988/UKpga_19880048_en_1.htm)



Section 1 covers what copyright is, Section 5 covers what a Sound Recording is, Section 6 defines the term 'broadcast', Section 16 covers what copyright prevents other people from doing with the 'work' and Section 20 of the act covers the fact that broadcasting a work without permission constitutes an infringement of copyright



I have attached a FAQ sheet for the PPL Small Webcaster Licence which is aimed at small, hobbyist or volunteer online radio services.



Please let me know if you have any queries at all, I'd be happy to help



Kind Regards



Natalie



NATALIE THOMAS
Radio Broadcasting Assistant

Hope this clears everything?

[Misawa]

Yes, I believe this place's radio does not have a license. This issue was raised when they were actually contacted by authorities a few months back. Easily afford it? I'm told that this place is ran at a loss or a bare minimum of profit. He doesn't live on this website.

[Richie]

I really don't understand sulake, fansites have to pay for a broadcasting licence. The majority of the habbo fansites are being run by teenagers, were are teenagers going to get money for this? What I don't understand about habbo is a few months back they enforced a new rule were fansites are no longer aloud sell V.I.P which is extremly stupid and unfair of sulake. If all habbo fansites shut down habbo would be put out of business. Lets be logical about this without habbo fansites there would be no were as near as many visitors as habbo gets today. I do apologise for being off topic but it just irritates me how fansites bring the business to sulake and then they treat them like ****.

[Black_Apalachi]

Yes, I believe this place's radio does not have a license. This issue was raised when they were actually contacted by authorities a few months back. Easily afford it? I'm told that this place is ran at a loss or a bare minimum of profit. He doesn't live on this website.

Sierk? Yes, I know. Although I believe the loss/bare minimum of profit is after all expenses (domain/hosting/radio etc).

[Kevin]

I really don't understand sulake, fansites have to pay for a broadcasting licence. The majority of the habbo fansites are being run by teenagers, were are teenagers going to get money for this? What I don't understand about habbo is a few months back they enforced a new rule were fansites are no longer aloud sell V.I.P which is extremly stupid and unfair of sulake. If all habbo fansites shut down habbo would be put out of business. Lets be logical about this without habbo fansites there would be no were as near as many visitors as habbo gets today. I do apologise for being off topic but it just irritates me how fansites bring the business to sulake and then they treat them like ****.


The reason sulake stopped fansites from selling VIP was because the people were potentially spending there money on fansites, and not buying credits (what habbo want you to do), although this is an unfair decision, it generates more income for sulake.

Habbo would not be put out of business without habbo fansites? There are millions of visits to habbo each day, only a small minority of which visit habbo fansites.

Habbo fansites do not bring the majority of business, advertisement and word of mouth does, habbo could easily operate without fansites, infact it would be probably easyer for them to do so as they don't have to keep an eye on the official ones.

a message to the op:

grow some balls, they say your not allowed to download music illegally, and I bet you the majority of this forum, and the majority of the world does.

Bet's that your only young, what's the most that they can do? contact your host for suspension?

[PatrickMS]

tbh the whole licence thing has just gone out of hand since it started. It has been closing alot of habbo fansites down which isnt good, but PPLUK just expect teenagers to pay that much money? its just stupid :l


Thank god for the http://www.pirateparty.org.uk :D

[Swimo]

apparently if your radio is hosted au/registered address is in au
you don't need a radio license, thats why habbox don't have one, its registered to an address in AU apprently (im not sure).