Labour Party Conference 2009

[-:Undertaker:-]

Labour Party Conference 2009 (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1216918/Brown-pins-survival-death-bed-conversion-plight-squeezed-middle-classes.html)

Brown insists 'Labour is not done yet'
PM outshined by wife's tender introduction
Free health care for the elderly with most need Free childcare for 250,000 children in poorest families
Post Office to be a 'People's Bank' within community
Series of pledges to curb anti-social behaviour
Referendum on electoral reform (proportional representation)
Gordon Brown today pinned his hopes of political survival on an appeal to the 'squeezed middle classes' in his final conference speech before a general election. The Prime Minister made a last-gasp plea to the vital middle-class vote as he insisted he had not run out of steam and was a leader for the future.

He accused the Conservatives of being heartless as he urged Labour to 'never, never stop believing' and unveiled a raft of new policies aimed at staving off political oblivion. The hugely ambitious programme set out plans for free health care, free personal care for the elderly and a series of plans to address anti-social behaviour.

For the second year running, he was introduced by his wife Sarah. Her highly personal tribute, in which she described him as her 'hero', totally stole the limelight. She admitted her husband was 'no saint' but insisted he would 'always, always' put British people first and was the right person to lead the country.

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2009/09/29/article-1216918-06A172FB000005DC-419_468x286.jpg

I don't see why anyone would believe him, especially when he 'promises' a referendum on electoral reform (hang on were we not promised a referendum on the Lisbon Treaty?). I do hope he stays though until the next election so Labour can face electoral wipeout and hopefully disappear off the map once and for all.

Anyway, do you think Labour can win a fourth term?

[Immenseman]

He's a man with a plan. He's been a good Prime Minister, how many people have actually been affected? Some, not masses. The state of other countries is a lot worse than Britain, we have a strong enough government who are promising tough new sanctions which I believe. Like he said on Andrew Marr, he wants to get out and speak to the people rather than be involved in constant bickering between himself and Cameron.

I hope and do think they have just enough time to win a fourth term, fingers crossed.

[-:Undertaker:-]

He's a man with a plan. He's been a good Prime Minister, how many people have actually been affected? Some, not masses. The state of other countries is a lot worse than Britain, we have a strong enough government who are promising tough new sanctions which I believe. Like he said on Andrew Marr, he wants to get out and speak to the people rather than be involved in constant bickering between himself and Cameron.

I hope and do think they have just enough time to win a fourth term, fingers crossed.

..sanctions on what? - the man refuses to cut public spending while the country slips futher into debt.

[Technologic]

The squeezed middle class?
He's the on doing the squeezing.

Man is an out of touch fool.

[Sammeth.]

He is what this country needs. He truly is. People are turning to David Cameron as if he is capable of turning this country around, when we all know deep down that he won't and can't. He is just baiting. Gordon should remain in office when the time comes to vote, and its certainly who I'm voting for. Plus Im going to rig it too.

[alexxxxx]

well he's a fighter that's all he's showing. but the next election has tory written all over it. i doubt even if he came up with the best policies ever or if gordon brown took a bullet for the queen, labour would still win the next election.

[Jordy]

well he's a fighter that's all he's showing. but the next election has tory written all over it. i doubt even if he came up with the best policies ever or if gordon brown took a bullet for the queen, labour would still win the next election.I disagree, if Tony Blair managed to win that last election I honestly believe anything is possible. All Gordon Brown needs to do is get the newspapers on his side like last time and every idiot who can't make up their own mind will just obey what their paper says.

I don't want to become someone who gives up on Politics but I seriously don't have any hopes for the Conservatives anymore, they might be a slight improvement but chances are, hardly anything will change no matter which party wins.

[Misawa]

His waste of time speech clogged up my streets with his vile colleagues.

I can't wait until March when he leaves, because yes, he is going to lose.

[-:Undertaker:-]

The Sun newspaper has now deserted Labour and switched support to the Conservatives; http://conservativehome.blogs.com/thetorydiary/2009/09/the-sun-officially-deserts-the-labour-party-to-back-the-conservatives.html

http://conservativehome.blogs.com/.a/6a00d83451b31c69e20120a600d027970c-800wi (http://conservativehome.blogs.com/.a/6a00d83451b31c69e20120a600d027970c-pi)

http://conservativehome.blogs.com/.a/6a00d83451b31c69e20120a600d06e970c-500wi (http://conservativehome.blogs.com/.a/6a00d83451b31c69e20120a600d06e970c-pi)

[Misawa]

Peter Mandelson's speech the other day was absolutely hilarious. Not only is he a fraudulent criminal, he's a terrible actor.

[Ardemax]

I think mr. Brown has done alright, at least he doesn't boost his ego

[Misawa]

It's official - Labour has lost it. Without The Sun, any party is dead.

[ifuseekamy]

The Sun backing the Tories isn't surprising, they have no political allegiance and just "back" whoever the evident winner is at the last minute.

[Misawa]

Their allegiance has been to Labour for years and years, and when they used to be Tory, their switch to Labour proved pivitol in Labour's rise to power. Now they're with Tory, it cements that Labour are going to lose, although this time round, it was going to happen regardless.

[Cysne]

I think that the word newspaper shouldn't be allowed to be thrown around, the sun after all is just aload of ********.

But labour out, Conservatives in. Labour have no chance. :]

[GommeInc]

Labour seems to be making themselves look worse and worse with each speech :S The answer to the problem is in that last sentence... Less speeches, more action :/ How are you going to solve debt? No-one cares, just solve it. One part of politics IS problem solving afterall, but for some strange reason pretty speeches seem to be the main plan of action. It's like dressing up an operating theatre, and the surgeon boring you to sleep with a speech :/

[Ardemax]

Gomme I think people are interested in the way you're going to solve debt. If they didn't know, they'd start raging on places like hxf :)

[-:Undertaker:-]

Gomme I think people are interested in the way you're going to solve debt. If they didn't know, they'd start raging on places like hxf :)

A good idea would be not to create that debt in the first place.

..but hey, maybe i'm just too right-wing.

[GommeInc]

A good idea would be not to create that debt in the first place.

..but hey, maybe i'm just too right-wing.
That, and go by the once popular belief that public servants e.g. county councils, MPs and so forth, act like public servants and therefore don't get overpaid :/ £30,000 - £50,000 should be the maximum an MP receives as an income - they are servants afterall, and money could be saved from lowering their wages :/ It is a job meant to be taken up by those who wish to serve, not those who wish to become rich doing sod all :/

[alexxxxx]

Not only is he a fraudulent criminal, he's a terrible actor.

any sort of proof that he is a crim?

he's a politician, not an actor.

[GommeInc]

any sort of proof that he is a crim?

he's a politician, not an actor.
I'm guessing he was point blank lying to everyone, but did a bad job doing it. So it is like acting in a way, because he's trying to act innocent. But I never saw the broadcast so wouldn't know.

Besides, exaggerating ideas and opinions puts out a broader message, but isn't something you're meant to believe in. Like "Europe is becoming like Nazi Germany." It won't, but the exaggeration puts out food for thought. And criminal may not necessarily mean "stealing things", because you can use the word criminal in different ways like "His choice of clothes is criminal."

I suddenly feel like I am pointing out the obvious :S

[alexxxxx]

I'm guessing he was point blank lying to everyone, but did a bad job doing it. So it is like acting in a way, because he's trying to act innocent. But I never saw the broadcast so wouldn't know.

Besides, exaggerating ideas and opinions puts out a broader message, but isn't something you're meant to believe in. Like "Europe is becoming like Nazi Germany." It won't, but the exaggeration puts out food for thought. And criminal may not necessarily mean "stealing things", because you can use the word criminal in different ways like "His choice of clothes is criminal."

I suddenly feel like I am pointing out the obvious :S

Well I feel that to call someone a 'fraudulent criminal' is a bit libellous if you ask me, nor had he made it obvious that he was referring to his speech.

[Ardemax]

sorry did someone claim gordon brown to be a criminal?

man that's a new one

[Misawa]

Took backpayments and covered it all up. He committed fraud and it's been proven. You should know your politics before discussing it.

[Jordy]

any sort of proof that he is a crim?

he's a politician, not an actor.He's incredibly corrupted it's ridiculous. He's a very intelligent man I will admit but he's so corrupt that calling him a fraudulent criminal really isn't an exaggeration.

Just look at his first two resignations, and then all the people he meets on his holidays, he meets Stephen Spielberg and bang, he's suddenly against file sharing on the internet and then the whole thing with Oleg Deripaska.

[Bun]

everyone should just go lib dems. labour have no chance cos they lost the sun, and the tories are dirty, sly scum. but hey gordo is well cool, he saved the world man. :8

[alexxxxx]

He's incredibly corrupted it's ridiculous. He's a very intelligent man I will admit but he's so corrupt that calling him a fraudulent criminal really isn't an exaggeration.

Just look at his first two resignations, and then all the people he meets on his holidays, he meets Stephen Spielberg and bang, he's suddenly against file sharing on the internet and then the whole thing with Oleg Deripaska.

Thanks! and to Misawa too. I'm not 'standing up for him.' I personally don't know if he is or not a fraudulent criminal or not. Unfortunately this is the way our politics is going, americanised, with the TV-Debates and dodgy lobbyists giving money to politicians 'so their voice is heard'.

[-:Undertaker:-]

That, and go by the once popular belief that public servants e.g. county councils, MPs and so forth, act like public servants and therefore don't get overpaid :/ £30,000 - £50,000 should be the maximum an MP receives as an income - they are servants afterall, and money could be saved from lowering their wages :/ It is a job meant to be taken up by those who wish to serve, not those who wish to become rich doing sod all :/

Jobs for the boys, as always with Labour.


any sort of proof that he is a crim?

he's a politician, not an actor.

I wouldn't say hes a politician or even an actor, i'd hes bordering on being a clown/liar, infact I am wrong, he is a clown and a liar!.


everyone should just go lib dems. labour have no chance cos they lost the sun, and the tories are dirty, sly scum. but hey gordo is well cool, he saved the world man. :8

..is Conservatism scum because it means you have to work for yourself and your own goals instead of relying on everybody else & the state to do everything for you?.

[GommeInc]

Thanks! and to Misawa too. I'm not 'standing up for him.' I personally don't know if he is or not a fraudulent criminal or not. Unfortunately this is the way our politics is going, americanised, with the TV-Debates and dodgy lobbyists giving money to politicians 'so their voice is heard'.
Urgh, so right. It's like we're converting slowly to American politics. I can't remember what made me think that the other day, but it feels so corny and capitalist money grabbing. The only difference is that our government don't follow through with their plans, while in America they follow through with at least some of the plans.

[Jordy]

Urgh, so right. It's like we're converting slowly to American politics. I can't remember what made me think that the other day, but it feels so corny and capitalist money grabbing. The only difference is that our government don't follow through with their plans, while in America they follow through with at least some of the plans.American style politics surely isn't that bad, atleast in America people actually care about politics, in the UK no one gives a damn because they're all so boring and similar.

[Misawa]

By actor, I meant that he gave an awful, fake speech, with overexaggerated dramatics. They know they've lost, it's just funny to see them try and inspire others into thinking different.

Brown will go down as being one of the most PMs in British history.

[GommeInc]

American style politics surely isn't that bad, atleast in America people actually care about politics, in the UK no one gives a damn because they're all so boring and similar.
I wouldn't like to say who is to blame for that though. The individual parties, the people, government in general or the media.

[alexxxxx]

I know this is OT: but American Politics is awful. Neither party is particularly great and they are all paid millions of dollars by questionable lobbyists (or pursue personal interests) and it's even more of a 2-party system. It's a personality contest, which is what Sky News/Murdoch want it to be here, something they can sell, market.

The tabloids and newscorp already have a stupidly high influence on british politics.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/blair-gave-murdoch-veto-over-eu-says-pms-exaide-507354.html

News International is destroying the integrity of all parties and british politics. Not to mind other lobbyists which labour and conservative governments have consulted with in the past. It's disgusting.

[-:Undertaker:-]

I know this is OT: but American Politics is awful. Neither party is particularly great and they are all paid millions of dollars by questionable lobbyists (or pursue personal interests) and it's even more of a 2-party system. It's a personality contest, which is what Sky News/Murdoch want it to be here, something they can sell, market.

The tabloids and newscorp already have a stupidly high influence on british politics.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/blair-gave-murdoch-veto-over-eu-says-pms-exaide-507354.html

News International is destroying the integrity of all parties and british politics. Not to mind other lobbyists which labour and conservative governments have consulted with in the past. It's disgusting.

The BBC is also biased towards Labour though, the options for left-wing papers are there (Guardian & Mirror) yet the right-wing papers greatly outsell them. You can blame so much on papers and the media, but you cant blame the people for buying them.

[alexxxxx]

The BBC is also biased towards Labour though, the options for left-wing papers are there (Guardian & Mirror) yet the right-wing papers greatly outsell them. You can blame so much on papers and the media, but you cant blame the people for buying them.

The BBC are more biased in some areas than not. The politics editors are quite right wing in my view and aren't particularly critical of the tories. But some other aspects are more favored to the left. It's a balance. When the tories come in there will be accusations from the other side.

I think it's dangerous that a Aussie-turned-american can have such a dominance and play such a part in BRITISH politics in order to sell more. They need to be broken up, but I bet he's put enough cheques in pockets or done enough 'favors' to make sure it doesn't happen.

[-:Undertaker:-]

The BBC are more biased in some areas than not. The politics editors are quite right wing in my view and aren't particularly critical of the tories. But some other aspects are more favored to the left. It's a balance. When the tories come in there will be accusations from the other side.

I think it's dangerous that a Aussie-turned-american can have such a dominance and play such a part in BRITISH politics in order to sell more. They need to be broken up, but I bet he's put enough cheques in pockets or done enough 'favors' to make sure it doesn't happen.

The papers would still be right wing though, cant change what people want and think. The alternatives exist and have existed throughout paper history.


By actor, I meant that he gave an awful, fake speech, with overexaggerated dramatics. They know they've lost, it's just funny to see them try and inspire others into thinking different.

Brown will go down as being one of the most PMs in British history.

I think Gordon Brown & Tony Blair certainly rival James Callagahan for worst Prime Minister in British modern history for sure, maybe even going futher than him because they have done it with such spin and lies its unreal, and the fact remains that even after leaving office they still have good job prospects when it comes to the European Union.

[Immenseman]

is there a date when the election will be yet

[-:Undertaker:-]

is there a date when the election will be yet

It just be held around Spring/Early Summer 2010 at the latest, but no dates have been announced yet. They will probably hold on for as long as possible to secure the Lisbon Treaty because the Polish & Czech Presidents' will only be able to hold off for so long.

[alexxxxx]

The papers would still be right wing though, cant change what people want and think. The alternatives exist and have existed throughout paper history.


It's not about that though. It's not about left or right. The Sun, NOTW have supposedly supported Labour and the Times/S Times follows suit. ITV and Sky are both news international owned. All these large british institutions are under control of people with more than one interest. When there is a near monopoly or oligopoly in the news sense, real choice is limited.

The Barclay brothers are another set of people with high influence with fingers in many pies. DMGT own or have stakes in large amounts of media.

The media in the hands of so few in not in the interests of democracy as the electorate need to be informed from different points of view.

[Bun]

I think Gordon Brown & Tony Blair certainly rival James Callagahan for worst Prime Minister in British modern history for sure
tony blair was awesome :eusa_danc

is there a date when the election will be yet
probs early may

[Misawa]

No date is set yet, but it must happened before the first couple of days of June/ Brown has 8 months left in office.

[-:Undertaker:-]

It's not about that though. It's not about left or right. The Sun, NOTW have supposedly supported Labour and the Times/S Times follows suit. ITV and Sky are both news international owned. All these large british institutions are under control of people with more than one interest. When there is a near monopoly or oligopoly in the news sense, real choice is limited.

The Barclay brothers are another set of people with high influence with fingers in many pies. DMGT own or have stakes in large amounts of media.

The media in the hands of so few in not in the interests of democracy as the electorate need to be informed from different points of view.

They are informed from different points of view, i've said before their are left wing papers out there but they do not sell well, and those who did endorse the Labour Party during their time in office did so as an act of populism. The government has no right to control who does and who doesn't buy up the newspapers/media - thats business.


tony blair was awesome :eusa_danc

probs early may

If you think a man who started an illegal war, allowed Gordon Brown to cut military spending, increased United Kingdom debt and who introduced political correctness on a mass scale was awesome, then you need your head checked.

[alexxxxx]

They are informed from different points of view, i've said before their are left wing papers out there but they do not sell well, and those who did endorse the Labour Party during their time in office did so as an act of populism. The government has no right to control who does and who doesn't buy up the newspapers/media - thats business.

No, the government does have a right - to protect something needed in a functioning democracy, an informed electorate.

[-:Undertaker:-]

No, the government does have a right - to protect something needed in a functioning democracy, an informed electorate.

The government does not have a right to interfere in free press, the press does not sell right-wing slanted stories because it wants a Conservative Empire in the United Kingdom, it sells right-wing papers because they sell and make money. I have said before, the alternatives are there but the people make their choice whether to buy them or not.

[alexxxxx]

The government does not have a right to interfere in free press, the press does not sell right-wing slanted stories because it wants a Conservative Empire in the United Kingdom, it sells right-wing papers because they sell and make money. I have said before, the alternatives are there but the people make their choice whether to buy them or not.

this isn't about left or right wing like i told you. it's about people not being able to make an informed choice. if the media owners decided to black out something to the british public because it would hurt their interests, it COULD happen. If Murdoch wants to control the government to benefit his interests, by biasing his wide range of newspapers/news channels, or to blackmail, he could. he has the power to deceive the public. if murdoch wanted to blackmail the government by teaming up with the barclay brothers, he could.

therefore the government has a right to regulate the owners of media.

[-:Undertaker:-]

this isn't about left or right wing like i told you. it's about people not being able to make an informed choice. if the media owners decided to black out something to the british public because it would hurt their interests, it COULD happen. If Murdoch wants to control the government to benefit his interests, by biasing his wide range of newspapers/news channels, or to blackmail, he could. he has the power to deceive the public. if murdoch wanted to blackmail the government by teaming up with the barclay brothers, he could.

therefore the government has a right to regulate the owners of media.

The papers are ran on own interests though and always have been, the Daily Mail, Telegraph and so on have always been run in right-wing interests because the readers are right wing and certain issues will bother them more than others, its the same with the left and the Guardian. We have ministers meeting Russian billionares on yachts, so I wouldn't worry that much about the media which is a free press that runs just fine.

[Jordy]

The government shouldn't intervene if people are too stupid to make a decision of their own and follow whatever their newspapers tells them to. It is a democracy therefore anyone can vote who they want, it's ultimately their decision. As good ol' Gordon says, it's people who vote not newspapers.

If the government decided to offer some real change and major differences from other political parties then maybe people would be interested enough to make an informed opinion on who they want in power rather than 'obeying their newspaper'.

[ifuseekamy]

The government shouldn't intervene if people are too stupid to make a decision of their own and follow whatever their newspapers tells them to.
Especially if it's the Sun...

[adaym]

lib dem ftw

[Bun]

lib dem ftw
init altho i've always liked labour (mainly to wind undertaker up atm) lib dem is obvs the answer now, eee imagine that the third party getting in lolololol

[-:Undertaker:-]

init altho i've always liked labour (mainly to wind undertaker up atm) lib dem is obvs the answer now, eee imagine that the third party getting in lolololol

You don't wind me up, you just prove me right every single time.

On the Liberal Democrats, higher taxes, bigger government, futher European intergration - basically Labour but with a smile. I do think though some Liberal Democrat councils do seem to do a good job, but i'd never trust them in central government.

[Bun]

basically Labour but with a smile.
and are probably a lot less "unliked" than labour, therefore posing more of a threat to conservatives. see my logic?

[Jordy]

and are probably a lot less "unliked" than labour, therefore posing more of a threat to conservatives. see my logic?Yeah that's why he said "Labour with a smile", seeing as despite being quite similar to Labour in certain ways, people don't dispise them anywhere near as much.

The Lib Dems are no threat at all to the Conservatives unless parliament is hung and it's likely the Lib Dems would then side with Labour.