Republic of Ireland prepares to vote (again) on Lisbon Treaty

[-:Undertaker:-]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b9/Treaty_of_Lisbon_ratification.svg/582px-Treaty_of_Lisbon_ratification.svg.png (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b9/Treaty_of_Lisbon_ratification.svg)

Ratified
Ratification stalled
Awaiting referendum


Tony Blair is set to become EU President within weeks if Ireland votes 'Yes' in its referendum on the Lisbon Treaty tomorrow. The former prime minister's candidacy for the new post will be rushed through as quickly as possible, according to government sources.

Mr Blair is among the favourites to become the first President of the European Union, a role that is chosen by the EU's 27 leaders and not by voters. Such an appointment would restore him to the world stage as well as boost his long-term income. Mr Blair has refused to rule himself in or out of the running, but did say that 'it is good to have fans' for a possible candidacy.

French President Nicolas Sarkozy has given his full support to a Blair bid. When French foreign minister Bernard Kouchner was asked yesterday if Mr Blair was the only real candidate, he said: 'For the moment, indeed.' The post of President cannot exist until the Lisbon Treaty is formally ratified by all member states and officials across Europe would scramble to move forward this weekend if Ireland votes 'Yes' on Friday. Yesterday Irish Taoiseach Brian Cowen ruled out a third referendum on the Lisbon Treaty if the controversial charter is rejected again.

I do hope the Republic of Ireland turn it down for the sake of all of Europe, who have been denied a say on the creation of the European superstate which creates a Presidential post meaning in effect the head of state on the United Kingdom would no longer be Queen Elizabeth II, it would be a possible President Blair who would be unelected. Over 75% of our laws are made in the European Union.

The reason Labour are hanging on and Peter Mandelson is so supportive on Gordon Brown is because they are desperate to ram this treaty through, if the Irish do pass this treaty tommorow it means the only hope of the United Kingdom being given the referendum it was promsied in Labours' 2005 manifesto would be if the Czech and Polish Presidents' could hold signing the treaty off by spring/early summer 2010 which is the time the next United Kingdom General Election must be held by.

What are your thoughts and do you think the United Kingdom should be given the referendum it was promised?

[Bun]

C'MON IRELAND SAY YES, DO IT FOR US X

[-:Undertaker:-]

I'd ask why can't we be trusted making our own decision?

..oh yeah, because we'd tell them where to go and stick it.

[Ardemax]

Undertaker you fail to see the benefits in saying yes.

They'd benefit a lot.

[-:Undertaker:-]

How are there benefits?, I can see the possible benefits as with all nations, if we had one country with one currency of course thats a benefit to the world, but that overlaps national sovereignty, sovereign monetary policy and last of all, creates a dangerous world in which we have large superstates fighting against eachother.

Why is history always ignored?, large European Empires have tried to be formed by the dictators of Hitler, Napoleon and Stalin and each time all they have done is destroy them invidivdual countrys - why do you think eastern europe is still poor and has a declining birthrate - it has nothing there, it was ruined by decades under the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics.

Command economy does not work, and the European Union is commnand economy. It is centralised beyond belief which works against the capitalist system which we have had for many years, more so through from the 1980s' onwards where the United Kingdom economy experienced a massive boom.

If I (United Kingdom) give you (EU) £1 to spend on me, and you give me back 20p - you have just taxed me on my own money, that is not a benefit.

Ardemax, do you support the people of Europe having a say on the Libson Treaty, and more so the chance to voice whether or not they support thre European Union evening making over 75% of national laws?

..yes or no.

[Wyked]

How can they vote... they're permenantly drunk.

Edited by Luccy. (Forum Moderator): Please don't be rude to a forum member/group of forum members

[GommeInc]

I find it a bit rude that the EU, or whoever, has pushed the treaty on a country that has already said no once :/ And whenever someone asks for the benefits or why it would be good, you don't get an answer, just abuse. I noticed this on the news and in newspaper articles, where people revolve the answers around "This person is not educated enough to make these decisions."

It's also quite worrying how democracy has died and dictatorship seems to be the new calling card. Yes, EU officials can vote for who is EU President, but EU officials aren't the general public, and never will be, so don't deserve the right to vote. It should be the people living in the USoE, not the people "leading" it.

[alexxxxx]

as explained before, it isn't exactly the same. they have legally binding guarantees exempting them from certain clauses etc made through negotiations. it's very likely to pass.

we don't vote in our PM, it's the party with the majority that chooses the PM. it's the same thing in my view.

[Alkaz]

Ireland should say yes then Tony Blair can make it as cheap as it possibley can for us to leave the EU totally. I am 100% again the European Union, I absolutely hate it, we no more are 'Great' Britain.

[Wyked]

Ireland should say yes then Tony Blair can make it as cheap as it possibley can for us to leave the EU totally. I am 100% again the European Union, I absolutely hate it, we no more are 'Great' Britain.

Tony Blair?

[GommeInc]

as explained before, it isn't exactly the same. they have legally binding guarantees exempting them from certain clauses etc made through negotiations. it's very likely to pass.

we don't vote in our PM, it's the party with the majority that chooses the PM. it's the same thing in my view.
It seems a bit silly having someone lead a super state who will have no consideration for the general public. We don't vote for who is PM, but at least we have some understanding of who it might be. It's like voting Conservative because David Cameron looks like a good leader. Compared to the EU, there's no comparison at all. You see nothing so expect little :S

[Alkaz]

If they join Tony Blair will be the President of the Eurpoean Union.
Well, we hope.

[Absently]

i hope most vote no. does not want.

[-:Undertaker:-]

I find it a bit rude that the EU, or whoever, has pushed the treaty on a country that has already said no once :/ And whenever someone asks for the benefits or why it would be good, you don't get an answer, just abuse. I noticed this on the news and in newspaper articles, where people revolve the answers around "This person is not educated enough to make these decisions."

It's also quite worrying how democracy has died and dictatorship seems to be the new calling card. Yes, EU officials can vote for who is EU President, but EU officials aren't the general public, and never will be, so don't deserve the right to vote. It should be the people living in the USoE, not the people "leading" it.

That is how the European Union works, it stresses it is democratic and is a benefit to Europe yet will not let the European people decide this for themselves, which obviously means something is up. The European President is not elected by anyone, has no democratic standing or mandate from the people of Europe yet will be making decisions on our behalf that will effect international politics for years to come, and even our own lives with over 75% of laws coming from Brussels.


Ireland should say yes then Tony Blair can make it as cheap as it possibley can for us to leave the EU totally. I am 100% again the European Union, I absolutely hate it, we no more are 'Great' Britain.

Tony Blair is very pro-European Union, just like all of Labour - once disgraced from office they can land in their nice fat-salaried jobs in the European Union, unelected because if they did have to face election we all know a anti-EU superstate person would gain office and not them. I don't see this rubbish about how the European Union needs paying for this, paying for that, why the United Kingdom has to pay EU fines - its very simple, as soon as you get into office the first document you sign is the immediate withdrawal from the European Union.

The main parties have long wanted to avoid the European issue, Labour support it fully, the same with the Liberal Democrats and the Conservatives slide into meltdown everytime Europe is mentioned. The European issue is the most important issue this country faces, far bigger than the economy, crime, health, education - it is the right to govern ourselves, something we have done since 1066.


It seems a bit silly having someone lead a super state who will have no consideration for the general public. We don't vote for who is PM, but at least we have some understanding of who it might be. It's like voting Conservative because David Cameron looks like a good leader. Compared to the EU, there's no comparison at all. You see nothing so expect little :S

I couldn't agree more, but as we are told over and over again by members of this forum - apparently the European Union has averted World War III. :S


If they join Tony Blair will be the President of the Eurpoean Union.
Well, we hope.

Who wants Tony Blair as President of Europe? - theres no one i'd want less to be President of Europe, well maybe Neil Kinnock or Peter Mandelson but they've all had their gravy-train rides in Europe already. Tony Blair is hated across Europe, and incase you are forgetting; he was the one who signed away most of the rebate that Margaret Thatcher secured for us, just because the French didn't like it (despite the French also having a rebate).


i hope most vote no. does not want.

..spoken like someone who values democracy.

[PaulMacC]

I have a few relatives down south and I know what they'lll be voting.
I hope it goes no.

[lick]

Will be voted in says the polls. I'm on the fence cause in school we went onto the site and there was good and bad things.

[Niall!]

I would rather not, I have seen how the world ends and it has something to do with this.

[lick]

How did you see it lol?

[ifuseekamy]

The EU is a load of unnecessary bureaucracy forced on the more influential and powerful countries by central Europe. What possible reason is there that we need to be collectively governed?

[alexxxxx]

well rte, bbc, euronews are reporting that it's likely that it'll pass.

[lick]

most people said they voted yes because they were told it would get us out of a rescission

[-:Undertaker:-]

most people said they voted yes because they were told it would get us out of a rescission

Propaganda - simple as that. The Nazi Party used it when they were elected as the government of Germany as the Weimar Republic was in a terrible mess. The Irish have been fooled into this, and i'm not going to blame them because when you've lost your job, your mortgage is in danger of collapsing you'll listen to nearly anything for solutions. This time though they've picked the wrong solution.

Do not think this is the end of European Union expansion, with new powers the EU will continue to absord national powers just as they have which is proven by the transformation from a economic partnership/organsiation, to a political, social and economic union.

[Bun]

Propaganda - simple as that. The Nazi Party used it when they were elected as the government of Germany as the Weimar Republic was in a terrible mess. The Irish have been fooled into this, and i'm not going to blame them because when you've lost your job, your mortgage is in danger of collapsing you'll listen to nearly anything for solutions. This time though they've picked the wrong solution.

Do not think this is the end of European Union expansion, with new powers the EU will continue to absord national powers just as they have which is proven by the transformation from a economic partnership/organsiation, to a political, social and economic union.
will you please stop comparing the EU with the Nazis? the EU is democratic and is all for the bests interets of everybody, not just themselves.

[GommeInc]

will you please stop comparing the EU with the Nazis? the EU is democratic and is all for the bests interets of everybody, not just themselves.
People would agree if the EU actually said anything. As far as the world is concerned, the EU doesn't exist - it's just something people vote about and hides in the shadows. If it was a democratic system, it would at least make itself known politically.

That's how I see it at least. Usually when something is a good idea it is made aware, but it seems hidden away causing itself problems which isn't always a good idea.

[-:Undertaker:-]

will you please stop comparing the EU with the Nazis? the EU is democratic and is all for the bests interets of everybody, not just themselves.

..is that why EU officals are paid millions and millions, is that why the EUs' audit books haven't been checked for a decade+ and billions have gone missing?

Oh. and on the final point, its not elected - so it isn't democratic! duh.

[ifuseekamy]

will you please stop comparing the EU with the Nazis? the EU is democratic and is all for the bests interets of everybody, not just themselves.
The EU was founded in Germany by nazis. It is basically what Hitler planned on doing with his European superstate minus killing off ethnic minorities. It cannot be for everybody's best interests because of differing needs and wants of the member states. We lose far more money than is worth through enforced EU taxes. For example the protectionist and argicultural policies mean farmers in third world countries suffer and are unable to trade. The EU works around this by throwing billions of euros at them every year instead of effectively resolving the problem or trying to help.