Suggestion to bring in more members. [Archive]

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StefanWolves

13-10-2009, 09:51 PM

Immenseman

13-10-2009, 10:00 PM

StefanWolves

13-10-2009, 10:02 PM

Good idea actually. Let them visit 10 threads then make them have to register an account. You'd see a lot more people sign up. At the end of the day you might lose some guests but they're hardly benefiting the forum anyway. Although it wouldn't affect many of us I'd like to see it implemented. Good selfless suggestion.

I was thinking maybe 3-5 threads, then make them register. Yes it may be annoying, but I'd rather have the annoying side of it, and have the upside of making HxF that little bit more future proof.

iDenning

13-10-2009, 10:04 PM

good idea but alot of accounts will be created just so they can view like one thread, after that they may not use it. So it would be pointless them having it and the account would be sitting there wasting bandwidth?

buttons

13-10-2009, 10:04 PM

yeah definitely. they do it on chf, i remember cause it's why i signed up there ha

Immenseman

13-10-2009, 10:05 PM

I think 3 is a tad harsh. Let them see 10, see how good HxF is and then surely they'll want to sign up after that :P

Meanies

13-10-2009, 10:05 PM

I was thinking maybe 3-5 threads, then make them register. Yes it may be annoying, but I'd rather have the annoying side of it, and have the upside of making HxF that little bit more future proof.
for such a big forum, i think 10 would be more suitable

I like the idea :)

StefanWolves

13-10-2009, 10:10 PM

Thanks for your support guys! and CH is 3 threads, I just tried it.

I actually agree though, start at 10, and if it isn't working then slowly bring it down, if it still doesn't work then simple; remove it.

And to the guy who said 'wots the point it wastes bandwidth' - We already have 40,000 members, 38,000 of those a probably inactive, so it really wouldn't make a difference.

FlyingJesus

13-10-2009, 10:11 PM

StefanWolves

13-10-2009, 10:13 PM

Members logged in =/= active posting

All this will do is give us a potential increase in total membership but likely a decrease in actual views and traffic, as many just won't bother. Even if they do, it makes no difference at all if they're still not inclined to post

They would be encouraged to post. This is ClubHabbos message when they can't view more threads:

'You Cannot View Anymore Threads

Oh no, you cannot view anymore threads while you are a guest as you need to register in order to view the forum at its natural beauty. Don't worry though, registration will only take a few seconds and guess what? Its completely free, woo!

So, if you still wish to view the thread content then click the link below to join ClubHabbo, or if you are already a member then you can log-in and view threads.

Click here to register a Free account!'

That really does encourage Habbo-ish noobs to register, it's fact; if more people register, posts will go up. You can't argue that point.

Immenseman

13-10-2009, 10:17 PM

Yeah like Jen signed I first signed up to CH because it made me. I now have like 600 posts on there or something. If HxF did the same - there will be more active users and therefore posts. I see no harm in trying this anyway. I'm sure nvrspk4 will consider it after what he said yesterday :)

StefanWolves

13-10-2009, 10:22 PM

Immenseman

13-10-2009, 10:32 PM

There are many ways. Depending on my effort meter I may create my own thread proposing my ideas one day in the near future. Unfortunately, I'm not sure threads in here are given the right attention so I might not bother.

Laggings

13-10-2009, 11:01 PM

I wouldn't make it posts. I'd make it certain areas.

Trading for sure. That's a big hit.
I'd make forum games aswell.

Other stuff isn't really that much.

But let them actually see that the forums are there, but when they try to go into the forums, or posts, make them restricted to members only.

I know that sounds epic hard, but it's really easy in forum permissions.

nvrspk4

14-10-2009, 03:25 AM

Hey,

I can see where you're coming from and its a good idea. I think the difference in policies is rooted in the difference between CHF and HabboxForum.

The casual Habbo users might browse HabboxForum because they want to review the news or something they heard about.

I guess the question is - is it worth losing some of the casual browsers to make some of them members?

Everyone is putting a lot of weight by the online member numbers - I think guests is entirely valid because those are people who are aware of the community.

And then they see something they want to reply to, they make an account.

I like this kind of system because people don't feel compelled to join, and do so of their own choice. There's no "I joined because the forum made me I don't want to be here" and I think that changes the initial tone of your forum visit.

I also think that we have a lot more "casual browsers" who would be put off than CHF would. Our browsers are just looking at news and such, not really a big deal. However users going to CHF, especially now, have probably been linked because of some riot or big to do that was reposted on another forum so they want to see.

The point is up for debate, just my opinion.

lick

14-10-2009, 12:42 PM

"I joined because the forum made me I don't want to be here"

well not really... they are viewing the forum so that means they want to be hear. Dunno why someone would view and read news on a forum they dont want to be on :S:S:

And why are you baseing everything around habbo news??? :S im sure people look at threads other than that

StefanWolves

14-10-2009, 01:58 PM

To be honest, why SHOULDN'T this be implemented? it only has benefits, and that's more users, and potentially, more active users.

FlyingJesus

14-10-2009, 02:03 PM

To be honest, why SHOULDN'T this be implemented? it only has benefits, and that's more users, and potentially, more active users.

All this will do is give us a potential increase in total membership but likely a decrease in actual views and traffic, as many just won't bother

'Sup homez

I stand by my point, as if people want to comment on something they know already that it's easy to register, so by limiting how much people can view without being logged in seriously all you do is cut traffic

StefanWolves

14-10-2009, 02:06 PM

'Sup homez

I stand by my point, as if people want to comment on something they know already that it's easy to register, so by limiting how much people can view without being logged in seriously all you do is cut traffic

Tbh, when I used to view this forum in my Habbo days, I only used to view it for curiosity, I didn't sign up for like a year. But now I'm an active member, and no longer play Habbo. If this was already implemented then I would have been registered much earlier, and of had more posts (if my accounts didn't get banned) - Equalling in me becoming more active.

It wouldn't cut traffic, I agree it could possibly if we did it like this; view three threads and that's it, you need too register. But not if it was implemented so it was like 10 threads, it wouldn't cut it at all.

If people see 'You have to register before viewing more threads' Then they WILL register, I guarantee you. I just registered on CHF because of it, I may not post, but other people in my position may post. Resulting in MORE active members, and that is what's needed.

Please post if you have any better ideas of getting new members in, and being active. Cause I would like to know.

scottish

14-10-2009, 02:09 PM

I like this kind of system because people don't feel compelled to join, and do so of their own choice. There's no "I joined because the forum made me I don't want to be here" and I think that changes the initial tone of your forum visit.

as lick said if they didn't want to be here they wouldn't be on it to start with, and even if the excuse "I joined because the forum made me i don't want to be here" then their given the chance to register, its not necessary, just they don't get to view the threads. Alot of forums have this (not only habbo based) to encourage users who are just viewing giving no contribution to the community to sign up and actually contribute to the discussion and community that their viewing.

StefanWolves

14-10-2009, 02:14 PM

as lick said if they didn't want to be here they wouldn't be on it to start with, and even if the excuse "I joined because the forum made me i don't want to be here" then their given the chance to register, its not necessary, just they don't get to view the threads. Alot of forums have this (not only habbo based) to encourage users who are just viewing giving no contribution to the community to sign up and actually contribute to the discussion and community that their viewing.

My point entirely. It could be a lot stricter, on some forums you HAVE to register before viewing. This would mean reduced traffic, but I don't see how this system would, if it works for other forums, then why not this forum? It obviously works if so many high profile forums use it.

Inseriousity.

14-10-2009, 02:14 PM

And then they see something they want to reply to, they make an account.

Yeah I agree tbh. Maybe I'm in the minority but I don't really like that CH message. It's patronizing imo. As for less guests on CHF, there could be other major factors in this (e.g. better threads? younger target audience? better default skin - as someone suggested. that's a matter of opinion though). Get rid of the silly post approval thing. The mods are here to moderate anyway so they can get rid of the minority of newbies breaking the rules rather than letting the majority of newbies who want to have an active discussion but are prohibitied by waiting for their post to be approved.

StefanWolves

14-10-2009, 02:33 PM

Just getting a a poll set up (thanks Matt! :)), so we can see who would like what to be implemented! :)

scottish

14-10-2009, 02:49 PM

Yeah I agree tbh. Maybe I'm in the minority but I don't really like that CH message. It's patronizing imo. As for less guests on CHF, there could be other major factors in this (e.g. better threads? younger target audience? better default skin - as someone suggested. that's a matter of opinion though). Get rid of the silly post approval thing. The mods are here to moderate anyway so they can get rid of the minority of newbies breaking the rules rather than letting the majority of newbies who want to have an active discussion but are prohibitied by waiting for their post to be approved.

(s)mods aren't on 24/7 so if a spambot comes on and spams porn or random adverts for viagra not much can be done for a while until a mod is on to remove it but if the post validation asks first 5 posts to be verified this reduces chances of it being posted during times when mods aren't online.

The Professor

14-10-2009, 03:10 PM

Yeah I agree tbh. Maybe I'm in the minority but I don't really like that CH message. It's patronizing imo. As for less guests on CHF, there could be other major factors in this (e.g. better threads? younger target audience? better default skin - as someone suggested. that's a matter of opinion though). Get rid of the silly post approval thing. The mods are here to moderate anyway so they can get rid of the minority of newbies breaking the rules rather than letting the majority of newbies who want to have an active discussion but are prohibitied by waiting for their post to be approved.

The post approval thing isn't just there to prevent newbies breaking rules, its mainly there to stop spambots and stuff like that, as well as people on the autoban list who make accounts to come back and cause more trouble (takes them a lot longer to be able to post normally so puts them off bothering).

GommeInc

14-10-2009, 03:29 PM

I'm confused, the way people are describing guests are "a limited source of users who browse the forum unregistered". Since when were guests limited? They're an unlimited source, so suggesting they join won't destroy a source of viewers. Infact, members are more useful than guests, they're useful for statistics to see who is viewing what as an individual and not as a number (or un-numbered) "guest".

What has been suggested sounds like a good idea, it will make unregistered users have more time to view threads rather than be shunned by a three thread block. Ten would at least get them a bit more use to the forum and help make up their mind when joinin. And it won't destroy this tapless source of viewers people seem to think exist :P Though unlimited viewing in some forums would be a better idea, if something has been said which is inaccurate or some they agree with then they will register just to make their point known :P

StefanWolves

14-10-2009, 03:38 PM

I agree, I was a bit harsh with the 3 thread viewing thing, 10 would be much more efficient.

Nixt

14-10-2009, 04:11 PM

I personally think that this is a good idea. You could argue that it would reduce site traffic however I think that the guests that would merely never view the Forum again on the basis they have to sign up to view the thread they want to see aren't really ever going to sign up so it's pointless worrying about them. Secondly, what real value do guests have? Other than the fact they might sign up - in which case, introducing this policy will encourage them to do so.

It's a good idea I think, and I don't think it will have a negative impact even if it has no effect so there's no harm in implementing it. Brilliant suggestion + rep :).

Geraint

14-10-2009, 04:14 PM

How about handing leaflets out in school. I'd be willing to take this up. :D

Alkaz

14-10-2009, 04:16 PM

Nothing :)

StefanWolves

14-10-2009, 09:00 PM

How about handing leaflets out in school. I'd be willing to take this up. :D

bless you

nvrspk4

15-10-2009, 08:39 AM

well not really... they are viewing the forum so that means they want to be hear. Dunno why someone would view and read news on a forum they dont want to be on :S:S:

And why are you baseing everything around habbo news??? :S im sure people look at threads other than that

Yeah you're right, I should have said that better. What I mean (and I think someone put it better in the middle of this thread) is that message can annoy people, their registration is no longer a choice but a necessity.

Whether that matters or not could be debated, I think its the initial tone you set with the users and that will color their experience.

Habbo News was just the example I chose to give instead of dealing in abstract, I did mention "other stuff" I just wanted to give an example to keep it from being abstract and confusing.

To be honest, why SHOULDN'T this be implemented? it only has benefits, and that's more users, and potentially, more active users.

There are reasons that FlyingJesus and myself brought up. And there's a key difference here, it won't result in more active users it will result in more active registered members. However, if these registered members never post anyway, does it really matter whether they are a guest or not?

I'm confused, the way people are describing guests are "a limited source of users who browse the forum unregistered". Since when were guests limited? They're an unlimited source, so suggesting they join won't destroy a source of viewers. Infact, members are more useful than guests, they're useful for statistics to see who is viewing what as an individual and not as a number (or un-numbered) "guest".

What has been suggested sounds like a good idea, it will make unregistered users have more time to view threads rather than be shunned by a three thread block. Ten would at least get them a bit more use to the forum and help make up their mind when joinin. And it won't destroy this tapless source of viewers people seem to think exist :P Though unlimited viewing in some forums would be a better idea, if something has been said which is inaccurate or some they agree with then they will register just to make their point known :P

I think you misunderstood the point a little bit, the point being made that some guests, upon being forced to register, may opt to stop browsing the forum instead of registering an account. I agree that POSTING members are more useful, but I don't think that posting guests are. I suppose seeing who is viewing a thread is useful but does it matter if you have no idea who they are because they've never posted before?

I agree that people will register just to make their point known - and that's the basis of the forum today. HabboxForum users register to be a part of the community - or in some cases to make a point once. ClubHabbo members (which is the comparison being used) are often not as active.

I'm looking at this in two minds.

1) We will force people to create accounts and half the guests will do it and will be silent members. We do nothing but boost our statistics...and its not like we're getting ad money based off of registered users, this isn't a newspaper. We also lose half the guests, half the potential users and half the potential exposure of Habbox. Word of mouth is our most powerful advertizing tool.

2) The above may or may not happen, however we have a better chance of getting those people posting because people are goddamn lazy. With choice, often something needs to be enough of a catalyst to go through the process of registering an account. If you have to register an account anyway, you're already ready to start posting so may as well go ahead.

We will be reducing the post approval number to 5, I had that slotted like a month or two ago...I think Matt didn't know how to do it and asked me to do it and I just forgot to follow up on that.

xxMATTGxx

15-10-2009, 08:42 AM

We will be reducing the post approval number to 5, I had that slotted like a month or two ago...I think Matt didn't know how to do it and asked me to do it and I just forgot to follow up on that.

Just to let everyone know that it got reduced to 5 last Sunday.

scottish

15-10-2009, 11:45 AM

Yeah you're right, I should have said that better. What I mean (and I think someone put it better in the middle of this thread) is that message can annoy people, their registration is no longer a choice but a necessity.

it's not necessary for them to register, if they wish to view more threads then it is, but when going on habboxforum.com a big message doesnt' come up 'YOU MUST REGISTER TO SEE ANYTHING' just the fact after 5/10 threads have been viewed they must then register...

Whether that matters or not could be debated, I think its the initial tone you set with the users and that will color their experience.

Habbo News was just the example I chose to give instead of dealing in abstract, I did mention "other stuff" I just wanted to give an example to keep it from being abstract and confusing.

There are reasons that FlyingJesus and myself brought up. And there's a key difference here, it won't result in more active users it will result in more active registered members. However, if these registered members never post anyway, does it really matter whether they are a guest or not?

Users doesn't really matter, as you can have 1000 guests or 50 members, i'd prefer the 50 member as their giving more to the community and actually taking part in discussions etc on the forum instead of looking and threads and doing nothing.

I think you misunderstood the point a little bit, the point being made that some guests, upon being forced to register, may opt to stop browsing the forum instead of registering an account. I agree that POSTING members are more useful, but I don't think that posting guests are. I suppose seeing who is viewing a thread is useful but does it matter if you have no idea who they are because they've never posted before?

Again you're saying forced, their not forced to register, they have the choice to register, its not something by law they have to register or they don't get to navigate away from the page so don't use the word force, as its simply a choice and the feature would encourage the member to register to view the thread and take part in the discussion than viewing the thread and doing nothing.

I agree that people will register just to make their point known - and that's the basis of the forum today. HabboxForum users register to be a part of the community - or in some cases to make a point once. ClubHabbo members (which is the comparison being used) are often not as active.

Isn't club habbo forum members / online members about the same as habbox lately? (someone compared earlier in the thread) and habbox has been around alot longer, so clearly the system their using isn't exactly bad if their catching up with hxf..

1) We will force people to create accounts and half the guests will do it and will be silent members. We do nothing but boost our statistics...and its not like we're getting ad money based off of registered users, this isn't a newspaper. We also lose half the guests, half the potential users and half the potential exposure of Habbox. Word of mouth is our most powerful advertizing tool.

not FORCING anyone to do anything, simply limiting the benefits of not being a member. You have no idea until you implement the system how many guests or potential users you lose so you can't simply say oh yes we're definately losing 50% of guests if we put this into place.

I don't see the point in you caring about the guests if their just viewing the threads and doing nothing to contribute to them, if the member seen a thread and wanted to register to state their opinion then they will do with or without this system.

lick

15-10-2009, 12:32 PM

1) We will force people to create accounts and half the guests will do it and will be silent members. We do nothing but boost our statistics...and its not like we're getting ad money based off of registered users, this isn't a newspaper. We also lose half the guests, half the potential users and half the potential exposure of Habbox. Word of mouth is our most powerful advertizing tool.

i don't get how you would lose any of that when people are signing up and using the forum :S

They are not posting anything as it is because they are guests so surely if they sign up you're gaining something not losing it?

and it's not like people are gonna be like "omgz dont go on Habbox you cant view more than 5 threads without registering" people never bad mouth the clubhabbo one. And when you have an account you tend to post.. i went on clubhabbo to look and now i have an account with over 200posts
because i had to register

edit: Clubhabbo have posting competitions for users and the offer prizes of rep and donate, i suggest competitions do something like this months back but nothing has been done :S

its like you're running the forum as if its 2005 or something, you need to start updating and changing things or habbox is gonna die

FlyingJesus

15-10-2009, 01:02 PM

i don't get how you would lose any of that when people are signing up and using the forum :S

They are not posting anything as it is because they are guests so surely if they sign up you're gaining something not losing it?

You don't seem to understand that just because people are told to register for something they don't always do it. I for one certainly don't unless I actually want something from the site and want to be involved, and I'm sure a massive number of young users who haven't been involved in forums before would be entirely put off by the idea of having to register just to see a news thread that they could probably have got the gist of from the main site anyway

You also seem to assume (in the 1st sentence quoted) that people who are registered will post.

http://www.habboxforum.com/memberlist.php?&pp=30&order=asc&sort=posts&page=959

^ 959 pages of registered members with 10 or less posts, of which

http://www.habboxforum.com/memberlist.php?&pp=30&order=asc&sort=posts&page=571 (http://www.habboxforum.com/memberlist.php?&pp=30&order=asc&sort=posts&page=571)

^ 571 pages of registered members without a single post

And that's at 30 members per page, over 17,000 non-posting members out of 37,159 shown on the member list. Well over half of the registered (and not banned) members have 10 or less posts by the looks of it, so getting a few new people who will be just as active as that isn't worth a forum overhaul. We need members who are interested and will stay, not just what I'd term as "registered guests" who might comment every now and then

scottish

15-10-2009, 01:39 PM

edit: Clubhabbo have posting competitions for users and the offer prizes of rep and donate, i suggest competitions do something like this months back but nothing has been done :S

its like you're running the forum as if its 2005 or something, you need to start updating and changing things or habbox is gonna die

i disagree with that; as you're basically encouraging users to spam so instead of 20 people saying welcome in every thread to get post count it'd turn out to be like 200, and every thread in graphics "I LIKE IT 9/10" etc.

lick

15-10-2009, 02:13 PM

i meant in spam

they do things like

100th person to post gets rep or vip etc..

Inseriousity.

15-10-2009, 02:56 PM

edit: Clubhabbo have posting competitions for users and the offer prizes of rep and donate, i suggest competitions do something like this months back but nothing has been done :S

We are offering VIP as prizes (8 months of VIP a month so there's plenty of chance).
With the current rep system, it's quite difficult to give rep as a prize but we'll continue to do vip prizes so yes we did listen 'months back' as we've been giving it out for months. ;)

the only problem with our competitions is poor advertising but we are looking into this.

edit: oh post above... I see.. hmm, well maybe we will look into that but it seems rather like 'luck' instead of using a talent.

scottish

15-10-2009, 03:03 PM

its not difficult to give rep as a prize, lol but i do disagree with it as you get rep for contributing good posts to the community, not for like posting loads of crap to get most posts to increase your post count.

hes referring to prizes for posting, not help desk competitions, habboxlive comps, forum comps, etc

StefanWolves

15-10-2009, 04:01 PM

You don't seem to understand that just because people are told to register for something they don't always do it. I for one certainly don't unless I actually want something from the site and want to be involved, and I'm sure a massive number of young users who haven't been involved in forums before would be entirely put off by the idea of having to register just to see a news thread that they could probably have got the gist of from the main site anyway

No, you don't seem to understand that the vast majority WILL register, it's OBVIOUSLY working for CHF, and works for many forums on the internet, most of the forums I visited before I was a member MADE me register on the forum, even if it was too just see content, but now - because I am registered, I do post. Even though I thought I wouldn't have.

just because people are told to register for something they don't always do it. I for one certainly don't unless I actually want something from the site and want to be involved,

Just because you assume newer guests to the forum won't want this, you don't want it to be impelmented? This matter won't be effecting you, so why are you bothered about what you would want? It won't be affecting you at all. Yes, a vast majority of younger people visiting this forum might not have seen a forum before, therefore not knowing how to register, (sounds stupid, but it happens) if this was change was made and implemented then it would certainly bring in more members. And have you been reading the thread? we said it should only be implemented on CERTAIN forums, not all.

You also seem to assume (in the 1st sentence quoted) that people who are registered will post.

The vast majority will. But even so, that is totally besides the point. If you haven't realised this forum is becoming a lot less active, we need MORE ACTIVE members, and the only way to get more active members is to first persuade them to join HxF. And this is why these suggestions should be implemented.

http://www.habboxforum.com/memberlist.php?&pp=30&order=asc&sort=posts&page=959

^ 959 pages of registered members with 10 or less posts, of which

http://www.habboxforum.com/memberlist.php?&pp=30&order=asc&sort=posts&page=571 (http://www.habboxforum.com/memberlist.php?&pp=30&order=asc&sort=posts&page=571)

^ 571 pages of registered members without a single post

Seeing as though there are 45,000 registered members on this forum, those numbers you just posted are microscopic. Wouldn't you rather we take the chance of gaining more members and maybe creating a newer generation of Habbox users onto this forum? because that's what these changes are for, they're for the future. As I stated before, the only way to get more active members (of which will be the next generation of HxF users) is to get them to register first and foremost, then next is to make them become active, which I'm sure most of those will do on their own accord.

And that's at 30 members per page, over 17,000 non-posting members out of 37,159 shown on the member list. Well over half of the registered (and not banned) members have 10 or less posts by the looks of it, so getting a few new people who will be just as active as that isn't worth a forum overhaul. We need members who are interested and will stay, not just what I'd term as "registered guests" who might comment every now and then

Those numbers don't mean anything. What's 1% of nothing? whats 1% of an extra 5,000-10,000 members? yes, my point exactly.

i disagree with that; as you're basically encouraging users to spam so instead of 20 people saying welcome in every thread to get post count it'd turn out to be like 200, and every thread in graphics "I LIKE IT 9/10" etc.

No, because that '5 posts' thing is still running, thus stopping spammers.

Anyway, the poll says it all. I know this probably won't be implemented for a long time, if at all - because it is quite a big update to put into affect, but I see this as a major stepping block in trying to get newer members on the forum, and making HxF last longer.

FlyingJesus

15-10-2009, 04:30 PM

No, you don't seem to understand that the vast majority WILL register, it's OBVIOUSLY working for CHF, and works for many forums on the internet, most of the forums I visited before I was a member MADE me register on the forum, even if it was too just see content, but now - because I am registered, I do post. Even though I thought I wouldn't have.

I don't know what the posts per day ratio between here and CHF is but until you come up with that figure you can't claim anything is "working" for them - as I keep saying, more members rather than guests is not a show of a successful forum

we said it should only be implemented on CERTAIN forums, not all.

In which case you either let them see the forums that are more interesting to them and they don't need to register, or you only let them see the more boring parts and they won't want to

The vast majority will. But even so, that is totally besides the point. If you haven't realised this forum is becoming a lot less active, we need MORE ACTIVE members, and the only way to get more active members is to first persuade them to join HxF. And this is why these suggestions should be implemented.

Please find something to back up your theory that people registering just to view a forum will make them active posters. All I see it doing is making a few people post here and there when they feel their comment is necessary but otherwise not bothering - if they were that bothered they'd have already joined

Seeing as though there are 45,000 registered members on this forum, those numbers you just posted are microscopic.

Well over a third having never posted at all and over half having posted less than 10 times is microscopic? That's quite some comment to make, I'd like to hear more about how 17/45 is a tiny amount to take into consideration

Wouldn't you rather we take the chance of gaining more members and maybe creating a newer generation of Habbox users onto this forum?

At the very real risk of losing a lot of much-needed traffic (and therefore revenue, and therefore capability, and therefore longevity) for the site? Nope

Those numbers don't mean anything. What's 1% of nothing? whats 1% of an extra 5,000-10,000 members? yes, my point exactly.

Where did you get 5-10k from? In all the years this forum's been open, we have (as you kindly pointed out) around 45,000 members, so I don't see how you can possibly expect such numbers to join (much less post frequently and positively) just by making a few guests join

scottish

15-10-2009, 04:31 PM

if you read the posts you'd see that we're not talking about new members spamming?

If you say member with most posts in the next month gets 2 month VIP then people are gonna spam like hell to get loads of posts, so most threads would have people posting crap just to get post count up, which is what i disagree with.

also, theres 63884 members including those who are banned/deleted.

JACKTARD

15-10-2009, 04:42 PM

5 per day?

scottish

15-10-2009, 04:45 PM

5 per day?

try and quote something, as from previous posts and looking at your reply the reply just looks stupid..

what are you talking about?

Immenseman

15-10-2009, 04:47 PM

I think he's suggesting that people could view five threads a day ~ not a bad idea.

StefanWolves

15-10-2009, 06:15 PM

I don't know what the posts per day ratio between here and CHF is but until you come up with that figure you can't claim anything is "working" for them - as I keep saying, more members rather than guests is not a show of a successful forum

Well it seems it's a bit more active than HxF is at the moment, and no, I can't find that data, cause it doesn't exist, just going by what I see on the two forums anyway.

Please find something to back up your theory that people registering just to view a forum will make them active posters. All I see it doing is making a few people post here and there when they feel their comment is necessary but otherwise not bothering - if they were that bothered they'd have already joined

If I could, I would, but I can't, and neither can anyone, only the people that own the forums can do that. Please tell me why most other forums have this already enabled? it obviously works.

Well over a third having never posted at all and over half having posted less than 10 times is microscopic? That's quite some comment to make, I'd like to hear more about how 17/45 is a tiny amount to take into consideration

If you actually read what I quoted in that part of my post, you'd see I wasn't talking about that part.

At the very real risk of losing a lot of much-needed traffic (and therefore revenue, and therefore capability, and therefore longevity) for the site? Nope

I don't see what you are getting at? We could turn this 'much needed traffic' into 'much needed members & traffic'

Where did you get 5-10k from? In all the years this forum's been open, we have (as you kindly pointed out) around 45,000 members, so I don't see how you can possibly expect such numbers to join (much less post frequently and positively) just by making a few guests join

I was thinking about the numbers that we may pull in because of this feature, maybe I was optimistic, but over time it will get the forum A LOT more members, and hopefully more active members - fact.

if you read the posts you'd see that we're not talking about new members spamming?

What are you talking about?

If you say member with most posts in the next month gets 2 month VIP then people are gonna spam like hell to get loads of posts, so most threads would have people posting crap just to get post count up, which is what i disagree with.

They won't neccasarilly post spam, I don't think people are sad enough to come on a forum and post loads just too get VIP? it will be all natural if you get me. :P

also, theres 63884 members including those who are banned/deleted.

Lmao, stop getting smart (I was talking about non-banned members)... the forum homepage doesn't lie; 'Habbox Forum Statistics

Threads: 581,620, Posts: 5,731,613, Members: 44,629
Welcome to our newest member, Kagemand'

scottish

15-10-2009, 06:23 PM

Well it seems it's a bit more active than HxF is at the moment, and no, I can't find that data, cause it doesn't exist, just going by what I see on the two forums anyway.

If I could, I would, but I can't, and neither can anyone, only the people that own the forums can do that. Please tell me why most other forums have this already enabled? it obviously works.

If you actually read what I quoted in that part of my post, you'd see I wasn't talking about that part.

I don't see what you are getting at? We could turn this 'much needed traffic' into 'much needed members & traffic'

I was thinking about the numbers that we may pull in because of this feature, maybe I was optimistic, but over time it will get the forum A LOT more members, and hopefully more active members - fact.

What are you talking about?

They won't neccasarilly post spam, I don't think people are sad enough to come on a forum and post loads just too get VIP? it will be all natural if you get me. :P

Lmao, stop getting smart (I was talking about non-banned members)... the forum homepage doesn't lie; 'Habbox Forum Statistics

Threads: 581,620, Posts: 5,731,613, Members: 44,629
Welcome to our newest member, Kagemand'

Previous members wil spam more aswell so people will increase spam by LOADS to get vip or whatever.

and as i stated theres more members banned/deleted etc, i was born smart, nothing i can do about that.

StefanWolves

15-10-2009, 06:25 PM

Previous members wil spam more aswell so people will increase spam by LOADS to get vip or whatever.

and as i stated theres more members banned/deleted etc, i was born smart, nothing i can do about that.

They wouldn't spam really, it would just encourage more forum activity. And yes, you were born smart!! :P

scottish

15-10-2009, 06:59 PM

they would spam, it would encourage people to post in most threads even ones which they don't know about or posting pointless msgs like 'good work!' 'nicely done 10/10' and junk just to get the extra post count where the wouldn't before so a massive increase in spam, so thats why i think competitions based on posts etc are junk :P

StefanWolves

15-10-2009, 07:08 PM

scottish

15-10-2009, 07:09 PM

EVERY section would be spammed not just spam....

FlyingJesus

15-10-2009, 10:24 PM

Well it seems it's a bit more active than HxF is at the moment, and no, I can't find that data, cause it doesn't exist, just going by what I see on the two forums anyway.

Postcount data doesn't exist? News to me, I thought it was something quite visible

If you actually read what I quoted in that part of my post, you'd see I wasn't talking about that part.

Oh? -

http://www.habboxforum.com/memberlist.php?&pp=30&order=asc&sort=posts&page=959 (http://www.habboxforum.com/memberlist.php?&pp=30&order=asc&sort=posts&page=959)

^ 959 pages of registered members with 10 or less posts, of which

http://www.habboxforum.com/memberlist.php?&pp=30&order=asc&sort=posts&page=571 (http://www.habboxforum.com/memberlist.php?&pp=30&order=asc&sort=posts&page=571)

^ 571 pages of registered members without a single post
Seeing as though there are 45,000 registered members on this forum, those numbers you just posted are microscopic.

I think that's exactly what you were talking about, unless you quoted that part of my post for no reason. It's 959 and 571 PAGES not members, at 30 members per page

I don't see what you are getting at? We could turn this 'much needed traffic' into 'much needed members & traffic'

Not if traffic decreases as I've clearly been saying will happen. If you don't see what I was getting at there you can't have been paying much attention

I was thinking about the numbers that we may pull in because of this feature, maybe I was optimistic, but over time it will get the forum A LOT more members, and hopefully more active members - fact.

Fact? Thought you said earlier you couldn't prove it. Also you can't place fact with what "may" happen and you being optimistic as you have, especially if the figures you're putting out are entirely unfounded and extremely unlikely

StefanWolves

15-10-2009, 10:31 PM

Sorry but how can you prove by doing this we WILL loose traffic? there is nothing important about traffic anyway, because they're not registered members.

Immenseman

15-10-2009, 10:40 PM

I am struggling to see why it's being opposed. A fact was confirmed the other day by Nvr which we all thought was happening - HxF is losing members and not as many people are signing up. Now although this may not be the most ideal solution to that issue I see it as a certain short term solution whilst management pull together and propose some longer term ideas. I understand they're busy and don't want to put them under any pressure to do that soon ~ it does need to be done though.

If I had my way - I know it'll be opposed - just saying I would remove post approvals completely. We have a moderation team who can deal with spam posts or any other inappropriate first 15 posts ~ like they do for any other user. Also, I would let guests view 10 threads then make it mandatory for them to sign up if they desire to see any more. We have proof it works on Habbo Forums as both me and Jen have highlighted it's what made us sign up to CHF and I don't know about her but I have 600 posts on there now.

I don't see the harm in trying this out, especially when it's been made unequivocal that new members are needed. Whether they'll be active posters or not is yet to be seen. As I see it there are two options and they are:

1) Carry on things as they are now. Not many people signing up. People leaving on a regular basis. Forum activity continues to slump.

2) Implement new ideas - even if it's only a vain hope they will improve things. Nothing to lose.

Just my thoughts on the matter.

FlyingJesus

15-10-2009, 11:07 PM

there is nothing important about traffic anyway, because they're not registered members.

And here's the part where you show what you know... Ad revenue. Quite an important part of the forum seeing as how it's become a large amount of what pays to keep it running since the whole VIP shutdown. Also hits generate more hits because of general popularity and search rating - fairly useful if you want more people here

StefanWolves

15-10-2009, 11:15 PM

And here's the part where you show what you know... Ad revenue. Quite an important part of the forum seeing as how it's become a large amount of what pays to keep it running since the whole VIP shutdown. Also hits generate more hits because of general popularity and search rating - fairly useful if you want more people here

Christ, well forgive me for not being totally on the ball when it comes to forums and how to manage a website? all I'm doing is suggesting how to bring in more members, and here you are criticising my every post. Forgive me for trying to help the community. So shoot me.

Also, I like how you just totally ignored immenseman's post.

FlyingJesus

15-10-2009, 11:40 PM

I'm not attacking you I'm just putting across my reasons for not thinking it's a great idea. As for not quoting Jake, he hasn't said anything I haven't already covered really other than post approvals which is already being lowered (and my opinion on that has been in other threads). Him and Jen being somewhat active members of CHF isn't really indicative of totally new members as they've already been part of Habbo forums and communities for a long time and had connections there anyway through other members. Getting people from other fansites to join isn't at all in the same league as totally new membership

We need real lures to make people want to join, not just making them register a name to view things they currently look at but don't care enough about to comment on

GommeInc

16-10-2009, 01:11 AM

I think you misunderstood the point a little bit, the point being made that some guests, upon being forced to register, may opt to stop browsing the forum instead of registering an account. I agree that POSTING members are more useful, but I don't think that posting guests are. I suppose seeing who is viewing a thread is useful but does it matter if you have no idea who they are because they've never posted before?
I don't think I said anything about making guests post, just that having them have limited access to parts of the forum might be a good idea to draw some interest - like having all Habbo related forums on show to anyone and maybe Discuss Anything (unless cautioned etc) so that Habbo related guests can see what is being said. Any special forums like Technology Discussions are just an added bonus of joining. Unless that is what is already happening at the moment?

Completely hiding the forums is a big no-no either way, although that's probably never been suggested anyway :P But having unlimited (or barely limited access e.g. 15 views a day) should drum up some interest.

I'm looking at this in two minds.

1) We will force people to create accounts and half the guests will do it and will be silent members. We do nothing but boost our statistics...and its not like we're getting ad money based off of registered users, this isn't a newspaper. We also lose half the guests, half the potential users and half the potential exposure of Habbox. Word of mouth is our most powerful advertizing tool.

2) The above may or may not happen, however we have a better chance of getting those people posting because people are goddamn lazy. With choice, often something needs to be enough of a catalyst to go through the process of registering an account. If you have to register an account anyway, you're already ready to start posting so may as well go ahead.
Bit in bold confuses me. You make it seem like there's a finite number of guests, when in reality there's a near infinite supply of them. Losing some means nothing, as not all guests are the same ones continuously viewing. There will always be a supply, as different as groups and people see the forum, either through Habbo or cleverly worded search phrases on Google. Either way, losing guests isn't a problem, especially if they join and never log-in again, because they still might view the forum. It's just a lottery really and done at random - some will join and stay, some will join and not stay and some will simply not join anyway. What you have to do is bait them and interest them with something.

nvrspk4

16-10-2009, 07:02 AM

it's not necessary for them to register, if they wish to view more threads then it is, but when going on habboxforum.com a big message doesnt' come up 'YOU MUST REGISTER TO SEE ANYTHING' just the fact after 5/10 threads have been viewed they must then register...

I understand the distinction, but what I was saying was that to CONTINUE to browse the forum they would be forced to register. Point taken though, its less restrictive.

Users doesn't really matter, as you can have 1000 guests or 50 members, i'd prefer the 50 member as their giving more to the community and actually taking part in discussions etc on the forum instead of looking and threads and doing nothing.

I disagree completely. If 1000 people know about HabboxForum, they might mention it to a friend and that friend might register. The exposure is much wider. For example, I was introduced to Habbox by a friend on Habbo who had never registered, just browsed the Forum and site for interesting information. He started talking to me about this rumor about Habbo USA and sent me to Habbox to find out more. Without that I may not have found Habbox.

Now, if you're saying 50 ACTIVE members, then maybe its worth it. However I find it hard to believe that those 1,000 guests will never turn into members or that those 50 users will all be active. AS FlyingJesus showed, most members don't even post anyway.

Isn't club habbo forum members / online members about the same as habbox lately? (someone compared earlier in the thread) and habbox has been around alot longer, so clearly the system their using isn't exactly bad if their catching up with hxf..

What nobody has considered is the amount of people that can (and do) appear offline :P

not FORCING anyone to do anything, simply limiting the benefits of not being a member. You have no idea until you implement the system how many guests or potential users you lose so you can't simply say oh yes we're definately losing 50% of guests if we put this into place.

That's a good point about limiting instead of forcing. As far as numbers, you're absolutely right. I didn't mean half literally I was sort of referring to a portion, I probably should have said some. At the same time, proponents of this change can't prove how many people it will attract/put off. My question at the start was - is it worth the risk? People have avoided that question and instead tried to prove that the question was not necessary - which it is. Unless someone wants to give me a statistically accurate forecast of exactly what will happen - which is completely impossible for a number of reasons.

I don't see the point in you caring about the guests if their just viewing the threads and doing nothing to contribute to them, if the member seen a thread and wanted to register to state their opinion then they will do with or without this system.

Exactly, they will do so with or without this new system. However, the guests who perhaps don't contribute still help to spread the word about Habbox and I gave the example about myself.

i don't get how you would lose any of that when people are signing up and using the forum :S

Because not all of them would sign up? Rather than sign up they might just stop browsing?

They are not posting anything as it is because they are guests so surely if they sign up you're gaining something not losing it?

You're assuming that as soon as they sign up they will choose to get involved. As FJ showed, a large percentage of those who sign up voluntarily still don't post.

and it's not like people are gonna be like "omgz dont go on Habbox you cant view more than 5 threads without registering" people never bad mouth the clubhabbo one. And when you have an account you tend to post.. i went on clubhabbo to look and now i have an account with over 200posts
because i had to register

People never badmouth the ClubHabbo one? I saw several people throughout the thread saying they disliked it. I have also seen people getting annoyed about it before when there were riots in the spam forum or website discussion forum involving CH.

I think you would be one of the people who would have registered on CH without that. Really with the 3 thread rule, they don't give themselves enough time to see if they actually WOULD attract a member without it. Having an account certainly does not equal posting, and I again refer to FlyingJesus' point about the proportion of members who are post-less.

its like you're running the forum as if its 2005 or something, you need to start updating and changing things or habbox is gonna die

How are we running the forum like its 2005? :P There have been many changes - just because we don't implement this specific one doesn't mean the forum is going to die.

No, you don't seem to understand that the vast majority WILL register, it's OBVIOUSLY working for CHF, and works for many forums on the internet, most of the forums I visited before I was a member MADE me register on the forum, even if it was too just see content, but now - because I am registered, I do post. Even though I thought I wouldn't have.

No, you don't seem to understand that that is a baseless assumption that cannot be verified nor disputed substantially because there is no evidence and there cannot be any evidence because there is no way to know how many AREN'T viewing CHF because of their rules unless you conduct an exit survery of every guest - which is not being done.

It is not "obviously" working for CHF, that too is a baseless assumption. A lot of other forums you benefit a lot from being registered and WANT the content they have. For example, technical help forums have information on how to fix the problem you have with your computer. Hell yes you're going to register for that information. At HabboxForum we have to convince them that we do have content they want to convince them to register. The best way for us to do that is to let them browse the forums, because otherwise they might go through ten threads in discuss anything and say "Ok, so what?"

Just because you assume newer guests to the forum won't want this, you don't want it to be impelmented? This matter won't be effecting you, so why are you bothered about what you would want? It won't be affecting you at all. Yes, a vast majority of younger people visiting this forum might not have seen a forum before, therefore not knowing how to register, (sounds stupid, but it happens) if this was change was made and implemented then it would certainly bring in more members. And have you been reading the thread? we said it should only be implemented on CERTAIN forums, not all.

You're trying to pound us on assumptions and you're making boatloads of them - my point is that we will be taking a risk by doing it and it should be evaluated on the terms of whether its a calculated risk, and whether the benefit will outweigh the potential risk. You are trying to make the argument that there is no risk which is an argument that can not be won.

You're fighting the wrong battle.

The vast majority will. But even so, that is totally besides the point. If you haven't realised this forum is becoming a lot less active, we need MORE ACTIVE members, and the only way to get more active members is to first persuade them to join HxF. And this is why these suggestions should be implemented.

Forced registration /= Active members. Convincing members that they want to post = Active members. You've been provided with ample evidence that a large proportion of registered members never post - if they HAD to register, would that mean that they posted more? Maybe, maybe not. Do we know how many browsers who pass on information on what Habbox has to offer we would lose? No, probably not.

I did a quick lookthrough today, there are a lot of referrals attributed to people who don't have many posts. Its difficult to go backwards and see how many posts those who were referred by those who had few posts had, its actually borderline impossible and involves a lot of legwork for each user. But I found one or two out of like the 10-12 I checked.

Seeing as though there are 45,000 registered members on this forum, those numbers you just posted are microscopic. Wouldn't you rather we take the chance of gaining more members and maybe creating a newer generation of Habbox users onto this forum? because that's what these changes are for, they're for the future. As I stated before, the only way to get more active members (of which will be the next generation of HxF users) is to get them to register first and foremost, then next is to make them become active, which I'm sure most of those will do on their own accord.

That is clearly a baseless assumption :P But I am glad that someone finally addressed the fact that it is a risk and at least argued that point.

Those numbers don't mean anything. What's 1% of nothing? whats 1% of an extra 5,000-10,000 members? yes, my point exactly.

Where the hell did you get that?

Anyway, the poll says it all. I know this probably won't be implemented for a long time, if at all - because it is quite a big update to put into affect, but I see this as a major stepping block in trying to get newer members on the forum, and making HxF last longer.

The poll shows the opinion of those who voted. How much does it matter what those who voted think - not really that much. The people who we should be polling is the guests. Unfortunately that's impossible so this is the best we can do :P

Sorry but how can you prove by doing this we WILL loose traffic? there is nothing important about traffic anyway, because they're not registered members.

And how can you prove that we won't? And the second sentence is completely wrong :P

Christ, well forgive me for not being totally on the ball when it comes to forums and how to manage a website? all I'm doing is suggesting how to bring in more members, and here you are criticising my every post. Forgive me for trying to help the community. So shoot me.

Also, I like how you just totally ignored immenseman's post.

You don't have to be an expert on the subject - but if you're not, then don't act like one. You made the statement authoritatively as if it were the absolute truth. If you don't know what you're talking about, perhaps "Plus, does traffic even matter? I would think only registered members matter." would have been received completely differently, and if someone smacked you down afterwards you can say quite simply that you made the concession that you weren't 100% sure.

I think the perfect cliche is "Don't talk the talk if you can't walk the walk"

I am struggling to see why it's being opposed. A fact was confirmed the other day by Nvr which we all thought was happening - HxF is losing members and not as many people are signing up. Now although this may not be the most ideal solution to that issue I see it as a certain short term solution whilst management pull together and propose some longer term ideas. I understand they're busy and don't want to put them under any pressure to do that soon ~ it does need to be done though.

If I had my way - I know it'll be opposed - just saying I would remove post approvals completely. We have a moderation team who can deal with spam posts or any other inappropriate first 15 posts ~ like they do for any other user. Also, I would let guests view 10 threads then make it mandatory for them to sign up if they desire to see any more. We have proof it works on Habbo Forums as both me and Jen have highlighted it's what made us sign up to CHF and I don't know about her but I have 600 posts on there now.

I don't see the harm in trying this out, especially when it's been made unequivocal that new members are needed. Whether they'll be active posters or not is yet to be seen. As I see it there are two options and they are:

1) Carry on things as they are now. Not many people signing up. People leaving on a regular basis. Forum activity continues to slump.

2) Implement new ideas - even if it's only a vain hope they will improve things. Nothing to lose.

Just my thoughts on the matter.

In response to your two main points (and not the two options you laid out, the two main things I get from your post).

1) Why is it being argued? - There IS a downside to this. That is that less guests will be viewing the forums and that means the scope of Habbox is reduced. The debate is (or should be) around whether that's a good risk. It appears that some are trying to convince others that there is no downside, which simply isn't true.

2) Why isn't it being done? - The main example you brought up was how you were forced to register and had 600+ threads. As I noted earlier in this (probably gigantic) post, I don't think that's proof of anything. Here's why, you didn't have the TIME to decide whether or not to register. At that point maybe you weren't thinking about it, but who's to say by thread 8 you wouldn't have found something that you wanted to reply to? Obviously the community would attract you if you're posting there now, and plus Jake, I know you, you love to give your opinion :P My point is that its entirely possible you would have registered when you saw something that you wanted to beat someone down over or discuss with someone. We'll never really know.

I don't think I said anything about making guests post, just that having them have limited access to parts of the forum might be a good idea to draw some interest - like having all Habbo related forums on show to anyone and maybe Discuss Anything (unless cautioned etc) so that Habbo related guests can see what is being said. Any special forums like Technology Discussions are just an added bonus of joining. Unless that is what is already happening at the moment?

Would tech discussion really be something that guests would care enough to register for?

Bit in bold confuses me. You make it seem like there's a finite number of guests, when in reality there's a near infinite supply of them. Losing some means nothing, as not all guests are the same ones continuously viewing. There will always be a supply, as different as groups and people see the forum, either through Habbo or cleverly worded search phrases on Google. Either way, losing guests isn't a problem, especially if they join and never log-in again, because they still might view the forum. It's just a lottery really and done at random - some will join and stay, some will join and not stay and some will simply not join anyway. What you have to do is bait them and interest them with something.

Here's the thing - we do (sort of) have a limited number of guests. Now limited is a very subjective word but just give me some leeway here. Our "guest pool" if you will, is essentially limited to the Habbo userbase. Now yes the Habbo userbase is growing (albeit slowly - this could be part of the reason for the downturn in Habbox) however it is certainly a finite number. Therefore, the number of guests is finite because 99.9% of our guests come through Habbo - that's why they come here. I know there is one notable exception but I doubt there are that many. I believe a forumwide poll showed that like three voting members had never played Habbo and on or two started playing after joining HxF.

Jesus that was a monster post. If you made it this far, congratulations. If you skipped to the bottom, BOOO you're one of those kids who flips to the last page of the book. Anyway one point I want to make for anyone still reading. I am not entirely opposed to this idea. I think it has benefits, I think it has disadvantages. However the majority of this thread has been spent arguing whether or not disadvantages exist which in my opinion is a royal waste of six pages. There are downsides, what needs to be debated is if they're worth it.

I'm playing devil's advocate here. I do believe pretty much all of what I posted is rational - I'm not saying it to set someone up for the counter argument, but I have also omitted arguments that I considered that do boost the other side.

For example, people are linking posting with becoming a member. Not so, people will post IF they have an opinion that they want to raise. I think the point that can be made though is that if you already have an account, the amount of stimulation you need, or rather how strongly you need to feel about a subject to be assed to make a post changes. The point can also be made though that if you're in the habit of browsing the forums as a silent member and then make a single post, you may fall back into those ways whereas if you jump in because you want to become an active part of the conversation, you will probably STAY an active part of the conversation.

All valid arguments and I would LIKE to see the thread shift from "Are there downsides" to comparing benefits and disadvantages and forming opinions based on that.

Immenseman

16-10-2009, 10:27 AM

Granted there are downsides. I agree with you there. However, I think the point which overrules any of the other points is that we know by making it mandatory more people will sign up and therefore become members. Say for arguments sake 50% sign up. I think quite a few of those will become regular posters. We know this can't be proven until it's tried ~ with the obvious lack of activity at the moment, new ideas have to be tested.

If no members sign up and we lose guests then we revert back. I'm pretty comfortable in saying that this won't happen - by being members and being able to post they're more likely to do so. At the moment the guests probably just can't be bothered to sign up. Regardless to if they actually want to contribute or not ~ signing up is seen as time consuming.

I can see both sides of the argument but I just feel in times of need so to speak where HxF needs many fresh new faces to lighten up and ensure the forums level of activity increases then we should at least give new ideas like this one the benefit of the doubt. It could go either way ~ we won't know until we try. Things aren't going to get better by sticking to the ideas and schemes that has led to this lack of activity.

Chippiewill

16-10-2009, 11:07 AM

I personally don't see any problem with losing guests at all. If we have a general decrease in page views but an increase in active posters then the server strain would at least be decreased, it's not as if guests are doing anything for us.

FlyingJesus

16-10-2009, 11:36 AM

Say for arguments sake 50% sign up. I think quite a few of those will become regular posters.

Got some figures I'm collecting to post in a new thread to counter this - basically the gist of it is that we're getting plenty of new members just none that are becoming regular posters, so the issue's changed

I personally don't see any problem with losing guests at all. If we have a general decrease in page views but an increase in active posters then the server strain would at least be decreased, it's not as if guests are doing anything for us.

We've gone over this bit before if you'd care to go back a page or so

scottish

16-10-2009, 02:54 PM

Now, if you're saying 50 ACTIVE members, then maybe its worth it. However I find it hard to believe that those 1,000 guests will never turn into members or that those 50 users will all be active. AS FlyingJesus showed, most members don't even post anyway.
you can't simply say theres no chance of it having as you have no proof, times change, if someone is registering tehres a lot more chance of them posting than if they weren't registered

What nobody has considered is the amount of people that can (and do) appear offline :P

People who appear offline still show in the online users number, just doesn't show the persons name on whos viewing what list, i appear offline and i'm still counted as +1 person online but my names not shown to normal members, etc.

That's a good point about limiting instead of forcing. As far as numbers, you're absolutely right. I didn't mean half literally I was sort of referring to a portion, I probably should have said some. At the same time, proponents of this change can't prove how many people it will attract/put off. My question at the start was - is it worth the risk? People have avoided that question and instead tried to prove that the question was not necessary - which it is. Unless someone wants to give me a statistically accurate forecast of exactly what will happen - which is completely impossible for a number of reasons.

Thats why you can put it on a trial, like the post validation i'm sure that pissed alot of people off and cause alot of people not to post after registering, yet here we are members still joining and posting.

StefanWolves

20-10-2009, 10:56 PM

you can't simply say theres no chance of it having as you have no proof, times change, if someone is registering tehres a lot more chance of them posting than if they weren't registered

People who appear offline still show in the online users number, just doesn't show the persons name on whos viewing what list, i appear offline and i'm still counted as +1 person online but my names not shown to normal members, etc.

Thats why you can put it on a trial, like the post validation i'm sure that pissed alot of people off and cause alot of people not to post after registering, yet here we are members still joining and posting.

Totally agree. If we have 100 new members join up this month, and 20 become active, then that is only 20%. If we introduce this limit and get 200 newer members this month, of which 40 become active, that is still 20 more than we could be getting, which is quite a big difference.

As said, the only way to find out if this actually works is to trial it for a month or two.

nvrspk4

20-10-2009, 11:56 PM

StefanWolves

21-10-2009, 02:49 PM

Trial it for a month, then you should see a difference, be it less members or new members, and if there is loss of traffic etc.

Chippiewill

22-10-2009, 06:32 PM

Sure it is, but the question is if we want to take the risk we face by implementing this rule. I think its a definite maybe but I also think everyone's avoiding the question (with a few choice exceptions.)

I would like to point out that people (in the poll) want this force people to register thing. Can we please stop arguing about it and make a decision?

adaym

23-10-2009, 02:41 PM

I think the poll results are overwhelming.

StefanWolves

23-10-2009, 02:45 PM

scottish

23-10-2009, 03:02 PM

No, 64% would like to see the feature added aslong with posts lowered
16% would like to see 15 lwoered to 5 and no limits
20% would like no changes

so 64% agree with you, 36% disagree :P

StefanWolves

23-10-2009, 03:06 PM

No, 64% would like to see the feature added aslong with posts lowered
16% would like to see 15 lwoered to 5 and no limits
20% would like no changes

so 64% agree with you, 36% disagree :P

No, 16% agree with one of my proposals, 64% agree with both of my proposals, meaning 80% do agree with me one way or another.

20% disagree 80% agree.

FlyingJesus

23-10-2009, 03:15 PM

20-4 says it all, changes need to be made. (that means only 1 in 6 disagree with these ideas. If you want me to put that into a percentage then that means that 83% of the people who voted in the poll agree with me.)

If you're gonna talk percentages and figures why are you ignoring the stats I came up with that clearly show our membership is increasing at much the same rate as it was this time last year but posting is down a massive amount, proving that we don't need MORE members only ones who will stay

People poll on changes all the time, but who's actually come up with something to show that this will work other than "well we might as well give it a go"?

StefanWolves

23-10-2009, 03:24 PM

If you're gonna talk percentages and figures why are you ignoring the stats I came up with that clearly show our membership is increasing at much the same rate as it was this time last year but posting is down a massive amount, proving that we don't need MORE members only ones who will stay

People poll on changes all the time, but who's actually come up with something to show that this will work other than "well we might as well give it a go"?

I'm not ignoring the stats, if you look in your thread I actually posted, so I don't know where you got that codswallop from. Yes, membership MAY be increasing, but nothing is being done to keep those members here. Fact is if we get MORE members in and make changes to KEEP them here, then the forum will be better for it.

What are you talking about? you still haven't brought stats to me showing that it WOULDN'T work, so you really cannot say anything. Yes, we can only see whether this will work or not is to trial it for a month.

I don't know what your problem is, are you against change or something? because at the moment you are stuck in 2005 and not 2009.

Also by posting what you did you are also disregarding the 22 people out of 27 people that have agreed that changes do need to be made. (1 of which has previously been implemented).

FlyingJesus

23-10-2009, 04:09 PM

StefanWolves

23-10-2009, 04:18 PM

I wasn't here in 2005, hiya xoxo. Also 2009 doesn't mean (or shouldn't mean) that you have to force people to join up for things. If that's true then the case is already lost

You say we have to get more members and make changes to keep them here, but this plan has nothing to do with keeping anyone here, only (potentially) getting more members which as explained isn't necessary, and there is the loss of traffic risk too which has been said a fair few times and you admitted that you didn't realise it was a factor when you made this thread, so it's clearly flawed.

As I said, people ALWAYS poll for change, so disenfranchising the views of a few members who apparently neither understand nor care about the situation enough to properly comment past "yeah gd plan x" isn't something I see as too terrible

Wow, maybe you should keep track of your own thread in future, I posted there only two days ago, didn't you check?

Very nice OP.

I agree with the person who said have a couple of people dedicated to approving posts. Hell, I would take the job, it'd be something to do, and i'd be helping HxF out, if posts get approved quicker, users will keep coming back, if they take ages to go through (sometimes hours) then users won't bother coming back, FACT. I also agree with the person who agreed with my idea of limiting the amount of threads that guests can view, but I don't think that is going to happen. People keep saying it will be a disadvantage to the forum, but I am yet to see proof of that.

I don't think we should be doing things like 'quests' and forum games, I think that is totally off the mark, yes it may HELP users stay on the forum, but it still doesn't sort out the problem of actually getting people to sign up. If more people sign up = more chance of more active members, FACT. Which is why I suggested we bring in the limit on guests viewing threads, even if it's for a 1-3 month trial, try it out, that's the only way that we will find out if it is worth it. Then if we see an increase in USERS, then we can implement changes into the forum itself in order to make those newer members stay on the forum, and encourage them to become more active.

And yes I agree, maybe our main problem is Elitism, maybe we could have a section for new members just to post, and where only HxF staff can post back (this could be called the 'Sand box' or something, or just make the 'welcome forum' staff replies only). This would mean they would get nice polite replies from high forum members, and it would encourage them to stay, they would feel more welcome.

1. Make the 'welcome forum'/new 'Sand Box' staff replies only.
2. Trial: Introduce the limit on guests viewing threads.
3. IF the trial is successful: introduce newer forums or forum activities like 'quests' and 'games'.

I also agree with the person who said advertise via HabboxLive, that is A GREAT IDEA, it could be a great source of getting new members, and could be an even greater source if we take advantage of these newer members, with the three suggestions that I have given above.

You could also introduce a very strict rule where something like if new members get taken the piss out of but without actually breaking rules, then they could get a warning or something. Just something needs to be done about newer members getting flamed.

1. Give out a notice/pm to the WHOLE forum telling them that they need to change their attitudes towards newer members. Also notifying them of the 'new rule toward newer members'
2. If they are still rude and have bad attitudes towards newer members, enforce the new rule and give them a warning straight off, and if they continue then make it an infraction.

Just a few ideas I thought up there, most of you won't agree with all of these, but hey, this is the feedback forum, and those are the changes that I believe need to be brought in.

I actually praised you for getting some proof, but I still don't see you giving proof to me that states that the plan on restricting members will NOT work? please explain to my why most other MAJOR forums already have this implemented? yet they are thriving.

You seem to want to 'argue your point', when really you don't have one, you have no proof. I admit, I have no proof, but if other forums are using and keep using it then it means it can only be successful, forums aren't going to be using it if it doesn't work, are they?

FlyingJesus

23-10-2009, 04:31 PM

Wow, maybe you should keep track of your own thread in future, I posted there only two days ago, didn't you check?

Don't even know what you're on about here, I didn't mention my thread at all.

I actually praised you for getting some proof, but I still don't see you giving proof to me that states that the plan on restricting members will NOT work? please explain to my why most other MAJOR forums already have this implemented? yet they are thriving.

You seem to want to 'argue your point', when really you don't have one, you have no proof. I admit, I have no proof, but if other forums are using and keep using it then it means it can only be successful, forums aren't going to be using it if it doesn't work, are they?

We aren't most forums though, because Habbox is the biggest rare values site for Habbo, which is where most of our members and guests come from. A massive amount of our guests are people who just come here from the main site to see what's going on, maybe look at a couple of news thread or check trading trends, but aren't in the least bit interested in signing up unless they want to participate - in which case they'll do so of their own volition as already happens. For forums that rely on new members as an influx of traffic yes it's worth the risk of losing such a number of unique guests, but here where (especially with the decline of VIP/donator) we need ad revenue so much, I'd rather see us have less members but stability than see us having a few more people posting 3 times and a massive cut in the number of guests we get.

A new generation of positive and active members isn't going to come around by making people join who weren't really planning to.

StefanWolves

23-10-2009, 05:17 PM

We aren't most forums though, because Habbox is the biggest rare values site for Habbo, which is where most of our members and guests come from.

I think you are getting confused between Habbox and Habbox Forum. I'm guessing most people who come to the forum part of Habbox is because of hearsay and friends telling them to go their.

A massive amount of our guests are people who just come here from the main site to see what's going on, maybe look at a couple of news thread or check trading trends, but aren't in the least bit interested in signing up unless they want to participate - in which case they'll do so of their own volition as already happens.

I don't agree with that at all, I think the main people who come here are from word of mouth on Habbo/MSN, and probably HabboxLive advertising.

For forums that rely on new members as an influx of traffic yes it's worth the risk of losing such a number of unique guests, but here where (especially with the decline of VIP/donator) we need ad revenue so much, I'd rather see us have less members but stability than see us having a few more people posting 3 times and a massive cut in the number of guests we get.

You aren't really in a position to preach to anyone about how much revenue HxF need, until a senior member of staff comes here and tells us how much they need to stay a float and how much they are gaining via Advertising and Donator then you can't say anything. Much less members = less posts = over the long time less guests = less money over all = the forum closing. More members = overall more guests because of word of mouth = more money over all = forum prospering.

A new generation of positive and active members isn't going to come around by making people join who weren't really planning to.

So what do you suggest to get more members here? because all I see is you flaming this suggestion. Yet you fail to pull out any suggestions of your own. I believe the post I posted in your thread is the way forward. I also believe the suggestions I suggested in this thread is the way forward, as do 20-odd other people. Positive and active members aren't going to come by not doing nothing. Action needs to happen.

FlyingJesus

23-10-2009, 09:36 PM

The opening of your last paragraph just shows you haven't been paying any attention whatsoever. I do not care for bringing a larger number of new members in, as you should know by now. What I care about is getting the people who already join up (of which there are more than enough) to actually stay and become active, which would be why I've not posted a way to get more people to sign up. Also I'm not "flaming" your suggestion at all, I'm explaining with well thought-out reasons why I don't agree. Flaming would just be me going NAH CRAP IDEA and no more.

Black_Apalachi

23-10-2009, 09:37 PM

yeah definitely. they do it on chf, i remember cause it's why i signed up there ha

Same lol. I think it's a good idea to make guests register after a few threads viewed. As you say, it can't really have any negative effects on the forum.

Chippiewill

24-10-2009, 09:43 AM

Same lol. I think it's a good idea to make guests register after a few threads viewed. As you say, it can't really have any negative effects on the forum.

Except from advertising revenues (Although I doubt that really covers the cost of keeping the server up for their page views) and 'exposure' which I doubt matters that much to be honest.

Mentor

24-10-2009, 10:32 AM

Well, lots of forums that I go on have a restriction on viewing threads if you are not a registred member, e.g. if you were not registered on Habbox Forum, and you tried to view more than 3 threads, then a page would come up saying "You have reached your weekly supply of threads, this is because you aren't registred at Habbox Forum! Click here to register to see the thread you were trying to access".

Great idea - if the plans to prevent people from joining?

Why?

People Join forums for 2 main reasons:
1) someone asked them to (someone they know) - In this case preventing people reading topics is useless.
2) got linked or stumbled accross a thread, since the topic interested them, they registered to reply (this is the sole reason i join forums) - Since no one can read through the threads, next to no one in this category is likely to join.

So basically adding such a feature would stop around half of potental members ever registering, which taking in to account this group is the most likely to be active and stick around for a while, is quite a big problem.

Guests do no harm, they view ad's like everyone else, just becuse they dont reply is no reason to prevent them from viewing.

In my opinion its a foolish move even to concider trying to force users to register if they dont want to, all it odes is make the forum look desperte and put people off even more.
Bad, idea. Very bad idea.

On lowering the post requirements, maybe you have a point, 5 posts allows people to start useing the forum normally quicker - although i'm not aware of the volumes of spam posts and fake accounts that generally make the rounds so this to may not be appropite.

nvrspk4

24-10-2009, 08:40 PM

Great idea - if the plans to prevent people from joining?

Why?

People Join forums for 2 main reasons:
1) someone asked them to (someone they know) - In this case preventing people reading topics is useless.
2) got linked or stumbled accross a thread, since the topic interested them, they registered to reply (this is the sole reason i join forums) - Since no one can read through the threads, next to no one in this category is likely to join.

So basically adding such a feature would stop around half of potental members ever registering, which taking in to account this group is the most likely to be active and stick around for a while, is quite a big problem.

Guests do no harm, they view ad's like everyone else, just becuse they dont reply is no reason to prevent them from viewing.

In my opinion its a foolish move even to concider trying to force users to register if they dont want to, all it odes is make the forum look desperte and put people off even more.
Bad, idea. Very bad idea.

On lowering the post requirements, maybe you have a point, 5 posts allows people to start useing the forum normally quicker - although i'm not aware of the volumes of spam posts and fake accounts that generally make the rounds so this to may not be appropite.

I. LOVE. YOU. There is another side of it and everyone thinks I'm crazy for saying it.

WILL EVERYONE PLEASE STOP TALKING ABOUT FIVE POSTS???

Just to let everyone know that it got reduced to 5 last Sunday.

Just to let everyone know that it got reduced to 5 last Sunday.

Just to let everyone know that it got reduced to 5 last Sunday.

Just to let everyone know that it got reduced to 5 last Sunday.

Just to let everyone know that it got reduced to 5 last Sunday.

Just to let everyone know that it got reduced to 5 last Sunday.

Just to let everyone know that it got reduced to 5 last Sunday.

Just to let everyone know that it got reduced to 5 last Sunday.

Just to let everyone know that it got reduced to 5 last Sunday.

It was in this thread!!

Black_Apalachi

24-10-2009, 11:13 PM

lol you've all gone and pissed off nvr :P

adaym

24-10-2009, 11:21 PM

I. LOVE. YOU. There is another side of it and everyone thinks I'm crazy for saying it.

Majority rules.

StefanWolves

24-10-2009, 11:22 PM

Didn't you know? Americans don't believe in democracy!!!

FlyingJesus

25-10-2009, 02:34 PM

Majority rules.

The majority (as I've said before) clearly don't know what they're on about as they've voted either without posting at all or with just "yeh gd idea" or something along those lines. Democracy and voting isn't always the best way to run things, certainly not on a forum like this for one

Immenseman

25-10-2009, 02:40 PM

The forum never has and never will be democratic. That's a good thing. If this was implemented there would be more members. However, as has pointed out it's not getting new members which is the issue, it's keeping them and there doesn't seem to be a solution to this at the present time. Certainly no long term ones anyway.

StefanWolves

25-10-2009, 02:59 PM

Wow, man can step foot on the moon but a Habbo forum cannot find ways to keep members on it's forum? yeah.

FlyingJesus

25-10-2009, 03:06 PM

You're right those are entirely similar concepts what's wrong with us

Black_Apalachi

25-10-2009, 05:19 PM

You're right those are entirely similar concepts what's wrong with us

I don't see how this comment contributes to the thread more than the one you pointlessly -repped me for.

StefanWolves

25-10-2009, 05:33 PM

You're right those are entirely similar concepts what's wrong with us

The American government could get a man on the moon & even drive a space buggy on it - during 1969.
The American owners of HxF can't sustain & keep members on a kids Habbo forum - during 2009.

Without mentioning that they're doing nothing about it.

Same principles, stop trying to be a smart ass? :P

FlyingJesus

25-10-2009, 05:35 PM

Immenseman

25-10-2009, 05:36 PM

And we wonder why new people don't stay;

http://www.habboxforum.com/showthread.php?t=610625

StefanWolves

25-10-2009, 05:38 PM

It contributes in that it sets straight a negative and pointless statement. Your comment that I -repped stated that you didn't see any possible negative effects from bringing this in, showing that you hadn't read the thread and therefore was not given "pointlessly".

And Wolves that isn't the same principles at all... it's like saying that because Beckham lobbed the opposition keeper from his own half in the 90s we should be able to paint with our keyboards. Completely unrelated examples that prove nothing

We can paint with our keyboards!

Start>Accessories>Paint

Wala! :)

Now I'm being the smart ass. ;)

And we wonder why new people don't stay;

http://www.habboxforum.com/showthread.php?t=610625

Hmm... In that thread, how ironic?

Thanks for highlighting the important bits

FlyingJesus

25-10-2009, 05:49 PM

Of note in these threads is the part where I state that I'm not a particularly nice person. That however has no effect on how good my analytical and debate skills are

Black_Apalachi

25-10-2009, 05:49 PM

It contributes in that it sets straight a negative and pointless statement. Your comment that I -repped stated that you didn't see any possible negative effects from bringing this in, showing that you hadn't read the thread and therefore was not given "pointlessly".

And Wolves that isn't the same principles at all... it's like saying that because Beckham lobbed the opposition keeper from his own half in the 90s we should be able to paint with our keyboards. Completely unrelated examples that prove nothing

You don't need to read every comment of a thread to contribute to it positively :S. The fact the rep was removed proves it was pointless. Are we allowed to call people idiots or not? Would be useful here.

FlyingJesus

25-10-2009, 06:00 PM

StefanWolves

25-10-2009, 06:09 PM

Reading the thread would have shown you that there were negative sides to it, and yes when the thread is aimed at actually changing something fundamental about how the forum works it would be a good idea to actually read through it before coming to (let alone stating) an opinion on it. This is precisely why it's necessary for management here to act without public polling

but yet you still don't provide me with the fundamental proof to prove my idea wrong.

- proof showing me that implementing this feature would mean we loose members
- how much it costs to main this forum
- how how much we need to be earning from advertising to maintain the forum
- if we are struggling to maintain this funding
- information that proves to me that by loosing 'x' amount guests we would loose 'x' amount of funding to pay for the forum

oh know, because you can't

only until nvr/sierk come online and say that they are struggling to pay for the forum and rely on guests for advertising will i support YOUR theory.

And TBH, I know a simple answer to your 'theory' if it is proved correct.

Put the prices of donator up to £2.

FlyingJesus

25-10-2009, 06:14 PM

Nvr said already earlier in the thread that you were entirely wrong in saying that guest traffic isn't important, and I can't think why else we'd need a constant flow of guests moving about. If I'm wrong about the reason then you still have to concede that he's told you previously that their being here is important

StefanWolves

25-10-2009, 06:33 PM

Until he actually comes out and says that he needs the guests for the advertising revenue then fair enough.

But and easy fix would be to raise donator to £2 if possible.

Chippiewill

25-10-2009, 09:38 PM

And more payment methods for donator...

Black_Apalachi

26-10-2009, 12:11 AM

StefanWolves

26-10-2009, 12:15 AM

I don't see how opening up the forum to the world is a fundamental aspect of this forum. If I was the manager of this forum then I'd think of making changes rite from the top, and implement new things. Just generally freshen things up. Maybe that is going to happen (the whole filtering system is getting a work over soon), but I wouldn't hold my breath on anything else being changed.

Mentor

26-10-2009, 09:49 PM

but yet you still don't provide me with the fundamental proof to prove my idea wrong.

I notice you appear to have overlooked my previous post, seeing as it primarily served to answer the questions you again raising, i'll have another go :)

- proof showing me that implementing this feature would mean we loose members
As previously stated, the two main reasons people join forums are; A: recommendation - these people generally dont stay as long or contribute as much (exceptions exist - tho not allowing viewing of the forums would put quite a few of these guys off - i never join a forum i cant view myself for one)
B: the big puller of the active and involved users, reading a thread thats interesting and registering in order to respond.

Now, people leave forums all the time, lets hypothetically say 7 people leave habbox a day? Now normally say 10 people join every day - that means the forum is growing.
Now your idea is implemented, only 5 people join a day and since these are less likely to stick around, being the type who joined only because they were aksed, now 8 people leave each day.

so that would be habbox loosing members, 3 a day in the hypothetical.

Its a simple concept, cutting the stream of new users, will eventually lead to the forums active member counts dropping.

- how much it costs to main this forum
Forum software alone costs a few 100, the big cost is in having the bandwidth and processing power to run and serve users with the forum content

- how how much we need to be earning from advertising to maintain the forum
more than the cost of the bills, the specifics of the numbers are irrelevant, what matters is whether theres as much coming in as is going out

- if we are struggling to maintain this funding
no premium features = quite a cut to habbox's ability to make money, so making ends meat is obviously going to be more challenging.

- information that proves to me that by loosing 'x' amount guests we would loose 'x' amount of funding to pay for the forum
Do you know how google makes money? facebook? myspace? or for that matter most sites on the web that dont charge?

Protip: google aint charging of vip

The more traffic you get, the more people will pay for ads, the more money you can make. The trend you may notice is that the higher the volume of traffic, the better the ratio of cost in serving the pages to the money made from ads with these pages is. Until the point it becomes profitable.

By shrinking the amount of viewers, you shinking the traffic volumes and thus you make less money back for each page you serve.

oh know, because you can't

only until nvr/sierk come online and say that they are struggling to pay for the forum and rely on guests for advertising will i support YOUR theory.

Fortunately basic deductive reasoning and some common sense is all thats really needed to undermine your proposed idea

Cant see sierk coming round here, and jin and nvr tend to avoid discussing costs publicly, as its not really there business to do so. So chances of answers that include figures coming out in response are pretty slim.

lick

26-10-2009, 10:02 PM

but you're just making up them figures :S it could make people leave it could make people join.. no one knows until its tried out

StefanWolves

26-10-2009, 10:07 PM

but you're just making up them figures :S it could make people leave it could make people join.. no one knows until its tried out

this.

makeslonger

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