Man facing execution in China

[-:Undertaker:-]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1237766/Mentally-ill-Briton-facing-death-penalty-China-drug-smuggling-WAS-given-fair-trial-Beijing-insists.html


Gordon Brown has written to the Chinese government to plead for clemency for a mentally disturbed British citizen due to be executed next Tuesday for drug smuggling. The Prime Minister's intervention came after China insisted Akmal Shaikh's trial was fair and that he should become the first European executed there for 50 years. Mr Brown was motivated by concerns that the former taxi driver was tricked into carrying the drugs.


http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2009/12/22/article-0-07ADBF2A000005DC-252_468x343_popup.jpg


Totally behind the Chinese, the only way to deal with these people who ruin so many lives with drugs. I find it strange how everyone who gets caught doing something illegal always strangely develops a mental illness after they are caught, hmm very strange. As for Brown, why would anyone with any sense listen to the man whos government has seen murderers getting 'life' setences and then let out after 10 or so years only to re-offend again.

Thoughts?

[Blinger$]

Meh he deserves to be executed.

[Jord]

Yeah if you are thick enough to smuggle drugs for someone else there is no need for stupid people in this world.

[le harry]

Yeah if you are thick enough to smuggle drugs for someone else there is no need for stupid people in this world.

Ehhhhhhhhh, so naive.

Are you saying all stupid people should be executed? Sounds like a death wish for yourself imo.

[GommeInc]

Ehhhhhhhhh, so naive.

Are you saying all stupid people should be executed? Sounds like a death wish for yourself imo.
Some people are de-evolving and prefer uncivilised practices which we frown upon, but take the hypocritical moral low road themselves. It's strange, people just love unjust killing of each other :/ First jews and homosexuals, and now mentally ill/stupid people. Gotta love being civilised. We're going to be oven roasting the mentally ill aunt for Christmas, she's too mentally disturbed to be outside. She's innocent as a kitten, but hey ho she's got to go :P

[syko2006]

I think that's a bit of a harsh penalty for drug smuggling. :S
He couldn't of smuggled that much to be fair; the death penalty just seems a bit too much.

EDIT: I take back the bit in bold, £250,000 is alot of money LOL!

EDIT 2: But then again, if he was tricked into doing it.. This is a hard nut to crack.

[Cheryl]

I may not be acceptable in this county (rightly or wrongly) but when in another country you have to adopt their rules, such as death for drug smuggling.

[hah]

doesnt sound british to me

[iAdam]

Tough one, tbh, I'm only for execution when people show no remorse and arn't worth the air they breath. Wouldn't letting him rot in jail be a better option?

[Seatherny]

Execution is harsh for drug smuggling :S.

[--ss--]

Why would anyone want to die in China... Atleast let him be executed here in Britain if needed. Either way the British government will fail in getting anything done.

[-:Undertaker:-]

One thing is for sure, people will think twice both in China and around the world of attempting to smuggle drugs in and out of China in future.

..and really, isn't that the whole point?

[Smits]

Extremely harsh punishment for the crime. He probably was tricked as with most cases where a foreigner smuggles drugs. Doesn't excuse him however, but death is a little over the top.

[iAdam]

People who smuggle drugs for a living will not be bothered by this news frankly, they will continue to do it as if nothing happened at all.

[Jordy]

I think that's a bit of a harsh penalty for drug smuggling. :S
He couldn't of smuggled that much to be fair; the death penalty just seems a bit too much.

EDIT: I take back the bit in bold, £250,000 is alot of money LOL!

EDIT 2: But then again, if he was tricked into doing it.. This is a hard nut to crack.Although you could say the death penalty is quite harsh for drug dealing, throughout the majority of Asia, there's the death-penalty for carrying a significant amount of drugs. He knew the dangers I'm afraid and chose to take the risk, as it happens, it didn't work out for him but I'm not all that bothered to be fair. A couple of Britains are executed every year for trafficking drugs around Asia.

[Meree.]

Agreed. I think execution is a bit too harsh for drug smuggling. In the UK people who deal drugs get about 12+ years or so. Government wouldn't even think about giving him the death penalty. I guess all countries are different then? But still, a bit to harsh for drug dealing. If it was because of murder, I would understand it then.

[Ardemax]

No, I'm not backing the Chinese, wayyyyy too serious and doesn't deserve the death penalty.

[Special]

Via this method of punishment, people wont be learning

They will continue to do what theyre doing


Anyway, I think a prison sentance is a bigger punishment than death. Its longer etc

[Tash.]

Saw this on the news earlier, the guy has bipolar disorder which causes him to have delusions so to me it's a little harsh to judge him by the normal rules. He is most likely very easily persuaded into doing things and it's likely the drug smugglers talked him into it in return for helping him.. he was actually over there looking for a record deal so y'know they could've promised him anything.

[-:Undertaker:-]

Saw this on the news earlier, the guy has bipolar disorder which causes him to have delusions so to me it's a little harsh to judge him by the normal rules. He is most likely very easily persuaded into doing things and it's likely the drug smugglers talked him into it in return for helping him.. he was actually over there looking for a record deal so y'know they could've promised him anything.

I find it strange how everyone seems to develop a mental disorder when they are caught and are having to pay for their crimes, don't you?

[Tash.]

I find it strange how everyone seems to develop a mental disorder when they are caught and are having to pay for their crimes, don't you?

You can't generalise with everyone, he apparently has suffered from it for years.

[Black_Apalachi]

You can't generalise with everyone, he apparently has suffered from it for years.

Well if he can drive a taxi, I don't see how it is relevant here.

Although I do think this is slightly harsh. I mean, these drug smugglers are treated as if the people they sell the drugs to have no free will and are forced to buy them. It's hardly any different to smuggling alcohol from countries where it's cheaper or whatever, (just thought of that example from Only Fools lol).

[Tash.]

Well if he can drive a taxi, I don't see how it is relevant here.

Although I do think this is slightly harsh. I mean, these drug smugglers are treated as if the people they sell the drugs to have no free will and are forced to buy them. It's hardly any different to smuggling alcohol from countries where it's cheaper or whatever, (just thought of that example from Only Fools lol).

Because he's impressionable so of course it's relevant here. If you're an impressionable person, especially one who has dillusions, then it's alot easier for someone to coerce you into doing something illegal supposedly in return for something you want.

[Hushie]

Drug smuggling? Execution?!?!

No way is that fair at all....

[-:Undertaker:-]

Because he's impressionable so of course it's relevant here. If you're an impressionable person, especially one who has dillusions, then it's alot easier for someone to coerce you into doing something illegal supposedly in return for something you want.

They say he has this condition. If thats the case then what the hell was he doing in China in the first place?

[Sunnily]

"forgive and forget" i am not totally behind that quote that i always hear. But to be honest this man does not really have to be executed. Even though it solves the problem he still is a living person and can have changes. Manbe give him some punishment and then training. Thats why i think the rules in parts of China are quite strict.

[Eoin]

if you want to reap the riches from drug smuggling you have to be prepared to suffer SERIOUS consequences if you get caught.

[syko2006]

Although you could say the death penalty is quite harsh for drug dealing, throughout the majority of Asia, there's the death-penalty for carrying a significant amount of drugs. He knew the dangers I'm afraid and chose to take the risk, as it happens, it didn't work out for him but I'm not all that bothered to be fair. A couple of Britains are executed every year for trafficking drugs around Asia.

Woah, they're quite strict with the whole drug scene out there, aren't they! :O

[Jordy]

Woah, they're quite strict with the whole drug scene out there, aren't they! :OKinda, but most countries throughout the world consider drug smuggling as one of the worst possible crimes. Think of the thousands who become affected by just a few kilos of drugs.

There's far worse death penalties in China, e.g. downloading illegal content off the internet or tax evasion

[Hitman]

One thing is for sure, people will think twice both in China and around the world of attempting to smuggle drugs in and out of China in future.

..and really, isn't that the whole point?
Bing band diddily dong, correct. You make some very valid points. If only the UK could adopt this attitude for certain crimes, such as rape, paedophilia, murder, etc. then we'd have a country with much less crime. I know of somebody (40yrs old) who had sex with their partners 13 year old child... and got like 4 years. That is just stupid. :rolleyes: If they got life (and I mean life, not 5 years good behaviour ****) or execution then I am certain you'd see a drop in crimes committed.

As for him being executed in China, he's in China and he broke their laws, so therefore they can deal with him. We don't need him coming back into the UK and clogging up the prisons even more, just to be let out early and possibly reoffend.

Merry Christmas.

[Tash.]

They say he has this condition. If thats the case then what the hell was he doing in China in the first place?

You can't just be sceptical about everyone you know, some people really do have these conditions and they are most likely to be targeted by people who smuggle drugs. As for being in China, when I saw this on the news he was apparently over there to look for a record contract as he was writing a song to try and spur on world peace. Now judging by this I would say his dilusions are pretty bad, because that is quite an odd reason to be over there.

[-:Undertaker:-]

You can't just be sceptical about everyone you know, some people really do have these conditions and they are most likely to be targeted by people who smuggle drugs. As for being in China, when I saw this on the news he was apparently over there to look for a record contract as he was writing a song to try and spur on world peace. Now judging by this I would say his dilusions are pretty bad, because that is quite an odd reason to be over there.

I'm sceptical of someone who was found in China to be carrying a lot of drugs around with him, which obviously were not for personal usage given the amount of drugs. I just find is incredibly strange how nearly all drug dealers, murderers and criminals in general seem to develop/have some form of mental disorder when they are caught, but if they are not caught it doesn't seem to stop them murderering/theiving or smuggling drugs around, does it.

[luce]

Well he was given the lethal injection today so i don't know what will happen now. Probably nothing because England as a country is weak, in my opinion he wasn't theirs to execute yeah he did it but he was mentally unstable and could have been un aware that they were actually drugs they could have told him it was a parcel or something like that.

Anyway i think no one deserves to loose there life because besides the obviously ethnical issues a life time imprisonment is much worse then death - that is the easy option.

[Jordy]

Well he was given the lethal injection today so i don't know what will happen now. Probably nothing because England as a country is weak, in my opinion he wasn't theirs to execute yeah he did it but he was mentally unstable and could have been un aware that they were actually drugs they could have told him it was a parcel or something like that.

Anyway i think no one deserves to loose there life because besides the obviously ethnical issues a life time imprisonment is much worse then death - that is the easy option.It's all over now, there's nothing more to be done.

Although I oppose the death penalty for every crime, I can very much see where the Chinese were coming from. The whole story is something a child could of made up. First they're saying he was tricked into carrying them, and then he was totally unaware of them. He went to China to become a popstar? Going to China to become a popstar is not a recognised career path, he also has no history of singing. Much like he has no history of mental illness and when he was alive it was never actually proved. His stories don't add up, and the amount of heroin he had, had the potentials to kills thousands of people. Drug smuggling is all about risk, hence why so few do it, there is enormous rewards but the reason you get paid so much is because there is the risk element, and sometimes it doesn't go to plan. He knew going into the country of their laws.

From his perspective I would of rather been executed, if he wasn't executed he would of had life without parole in prison, and frankly I'd rather be executed?

[Black_Apalachi]

It's all over now, there's nothing more to be done.

Although I oppose the death penalty for every crime, I can very much see where the Chinese were coming from. The whole story is something a child could of made up. First they're saying he was tricked into carrying them, and then he was totally unaware of them. He went to China to become a popstar? Going to China to become a popstar is not a recognised career path, he also has no history of singing. Much like he has no history of mental illness and when he was alive it was never actually proved. His stories don't add up, and the amount of heroin he had, had the potentials to kills thousands of people. Drug smuggling is all about risk, hence why so few do it, there is enormous rewards but the reason you get paid so much is because there is the risk element, and sometimes it doesn't go to plan. He knew going into the country of their laws.

From his perspective I would of rather been executed, if he wasn't executed he would of had life without parole in prison, and frankly I'd rather be executed?

Well when you put it like that, lol. And I agree with the last bit.

[Sharon]

Yeah if you are thick enough to smuggle drugs for someone else there is no need for stupid people in this world.

True.

I can't really dissagree with the Chinese can I.

[luce]

From his perspective I would of rather been executed, if he wasn't executed he would of had life without parole in prison, and frankly I'd rather be executed?

Yeah that is my point you want to do to the criminal what they don't want i think i would rather die then have a lie in prison. When i say life in prison i mean life no parol offered or anything, until you die. I think it's a great alternative to death because they have to suffer for what they have done, we all have our own beliefs about what happens in the "after life" this is the only way we can make sure that punishment is served. Especially when they have murdered someone themselves :D

[Tash.]

It's all over now, there's nothing more to be done.

Although I oppose the death penalty for every crime, I can very much see where the Chinese were coming from. The whole story is something a child could of made up. First they're saying he was tricked into carrying them, and then he was totally unaware of them. He went to China to become a popstar? Going to China to become a popstar is not a recognised career path, he also has no history of singing. Much like he has no history of mental illness and when he was alive it was never actually proved. His stories don't add up, and the amount of heroin he had, had the potentials to kills thousands of people. Drug smuggling is all about risk, hence why so few do it, there is enormous rewards but the reason you get paid so much is because there is the risk element, and sometimes it doesn't go to plan. He knew going into the country of their laws.

From his perspective I would of rather been executed, if he wasn't executed he would of had life without parole in prison, and frankly I'd rather be executed?

At the bit in bold, do you not think if he went to China to become a pop star and this isnt a normal action, does it not point towards the fact that he wasn't exactly thinking straight, and therefore this may mean he did have the dilusions attributed to bi-polar disorder? That's certainly how I see it. And yes he did have a history of singing, infact a couple have come forward telling how he talked them into allowing him to record a song called "Come Little Rabbits" or something. Those aren't the actions of a man of sound mind.

I personally think the whole thing is disgusting, and it just shows that they cannot be reasoned with at all. They ignored repeated calls for clemecy by the foreign secretary and the PM, and to me it just stinks of China trying to prove a point to the UK.

[Hiro]

The whole thing with the popstar stuff. The people who said they would make him a popstar apparently put the drugs on him.

[ifuseekamy]

At the bit in bold, do you not think if he went to China to become a pop star and this isnt a normal action, does it not point towards the fact that he wasn't exactly thinking straight, and therefore this may mean he did have the dilusions attributed to bi-polar disorder? That's certainly how I see it. And yes he did have a history of singing, infact a couple have come forward telling how he talked them into allowing him to record a song called "Come Little Rabbits" or something. Those aren't the actions of a man of sound mind.

I personally think the whole thing is disgusting, and it just shows that they cannot be reasoned with at all. They ignored repeated calls for clemecy by the foreign secretary and the PM, and to me it just stinks of China trying to prove a point to the UK.
Well there wasn't much else that could be done. The almighty EU failed to make a stand lol.

[Yoshimitsui]

What's happening with this?

[-:Undertaker:-]

At the bit in bold, do you not think if he went to China to become a pop star and this isnt a normal action, does it not point towards the fact that he wasn't exactly thinking straight, and therefore this may mean he did have the dilusions attributed to bi-polar disorder? That's certainly how I see it. And yes he did have a history of singing, infact a couple have come forward telling how he talked them into allowing him to record a song called "Come Little Rabbits" or something. Those aren't the actions of a man of sound mind.

I personally think the whole thing is disgusting, and it just shows that they cannot be reasoned with at all. They ignored repeated calls for clemecy by the foreign secretary and the PM, and to me it just stinks of China trying to prove a point to the UK.

I think it stinks of this British government (the ones who can't run their own courts, have signed away our sovereignty) thinking they can order other countries what to do and how to run their judicial system in this day and age, especially when the man is clearly guilty - smuggle drugs you get sentenced to death and I totally agree with the Chinese. The pop song cover, is obviously a cover. The Chinese courts would of got to the bottom of this and as I suspect, its just a poorly put together excuse to get him out.

How come everybody seems to develop a mental illness when they are caught? - I just find this incredibly strange. Call me sceptical, but it seems to me to be an excuse for somebody committing a crime nowadays does it not. Instead of lecturing the Chinese on morales why don't people like Gordon Brown sort out their own morales, this government has allowed murderer after murderer out on the streets yet nothing is said of it or done of it. This 'the west is already right' mentality needs to be dropped, because we are not always right anymore.


Well there wasn't much else that could be done. The almighty EU failed to make a stand lol.

"Defiant China claim 'no one has right' to comment on its judicial sovereignty"

Perhaps the United Kingdom could learn something from that when it comes down the to European Union.

[FlyingJesus]

Having a mental disorder doesn't make you above the law in any case. Obviously it's a sad matter if someone is able to be used in such a manner but it takes nothing away from the fact that he was smuggling drugs.

I "suffer" narcissism and nearly every teenager these days is bipolar whether diagnosed or not, does that mean we can get away with being responsible for the addictions and deaths of hundreds of people?

[-:Undertaker:-]

Amen to that Tom, and ontop of this I found this; the top rated comment on the Daily Mail website on this article/story;-


I don't mean to be funny, but what has bipolar got to do with it?

*I* have bipolar, (& anorexia) & have been in hospital a few times...But I would *never* use it as an excuse for anything... let alone drug smuggling! I know *he* isn't saying his bipolar hasn't enabled him to have a fair trial, but how on earth would bipolar affect his decision? Even when you are manic you know right from wrong.

I'm 22, doing a PhD & feel that using bipolar as an excuse sends completely the wrong message to people who know little of the illness. Yes, it is not pleasant, and yes, it *does* affect you...but you make your own decisions in life. Take responsibility for them.

[Sharon]

I can't really dissagree with the Chinese can I.

Correction. I'm not allowed to disagree with the Chinese xD

[Tash.]

Well there wasn't much else that could be done. The almighty EU failed to make a stand lol.

The almighty EU? What do they have to do with this.. this was between the UK and China, it had nothing to do with the EU.



I think it stinks of this British government (the ones who can't run their own courts, have signed away our sovereignty) thinking they can order other countries what to do and how to run their judicial system in this day and age, especially when the man is clearly guilty - smuggle drugs you get sentenced to death and I totally agree with the Chinese. The pop song cover, is obviously a cover. The Chinese courts would of got to the bottom of this and as I suspect, its just a poorly put together excuse to get him out.

How come everybody seems to develop a mental illness when they are caught? - I just find this incredibly strange. Call me sceptical, but it seems to me to be an excuse for somebody committing a crime nowadays does it not. Instead of lecturing the Chinese on morales why don't people like Gordon Brown sort out their own morales, this government has allowed murderer after murderer out on the streets yet nothing is said of it or done of it. This 'the west is already right' mentality needs to be dropped, because we are not always right anymore.


I think the whole point of this is that yes he may have been found guilty of smuggling the drugs, but there are extenuating circumstances surrounding why he had those drugs on him. You cannot say it was a cover, you don't know enough about the story to say that. I think the fact that the PM and Foreign Secretary got involved actually indicates that there was something wrong with how this trial took place and what was taken into consideration don't you? They obviously wouldn't be getting involved if the man had gone on a rampage and killed several people for no real reason because thats obviously beyond excuse.

Again you're managing to turn this into something Gordon Brown and co have done wrong, well i'm afraid this has nothing to do with what him or the labour party have done wrong. This is about the life of a man who may not have known what the hell he was doing. But hey, if you're ok with this happening then thats fine but it doesn't quite sit right with me. As for the comment you took off the website of a newspaper, just because that person isn't dilusional does not mean that this man wasn't too. Mental illness effects different people, different ways and some worse than others. It's astounding to me that someone who suffers from something like this doesn't understand how another person might have been misunderstood or duped. Just shows how ignorant some people can be I guess.

[Vonko]

No one deserves to die. I would even find it unfair if this man killed someone by mistake, mind taking illevel drugs into a country.

[-:Undertaker:-]

The almighty EU? What do they have to do with this.. this was between the UK and China, it had nothing to do with the EU.

Well I suppose it does have a lot to do with this because in past debates on this forum, supporters of the European Union have claimed that we need to federalise into a European Superstate to combat the growing rise of China - so now here we are, faced with China acting against our offical wishes and what does the EU have to say on it, what is the almighty EU going to do about it?

Nothing.

[Tash.]

Well I suppose it does have a lot to do with this because in past debates on this forum, supporters of the European Union have claimed that we need to federalise into a European Superstate to combat the growing rise of China - so now here we are, faced with China acting against our offical wishes and what does the EU have to say on it, what is the almighty EU going to do about it?

Nothing.

How does 'combating the rise of China' have anything to do with this issue? This is an issue for their judiciary which actually should be seperate to the state itself (whether it is or not in a communist country such as China is a different matter). It is not the EU's place to get involved in something like this.

[-:Undertaker:-]

How does 'combating the rise of China' have anything to do with this issue? This is an issue for their judiciary which actually should be seperate to the state itself (whether it is or not in a communist country such as China is a different matter). It is not the EU's place to get involved in something like this.

As I said before, people on this forum who are supporters of the European Union have argued that domestic positions of Europe can be best served as a collective voice in a world which is seeing the rise of China before its eyes; as shown by this example the EU is yet again proved useless. It can't even do what its supporters say it exists to do.

On China, China have harsh penalties for breaking the law, something maybe this country should take a look at again to stop the rise of crime and general breakdown in respect in this country. It is a joke to put it simply that a man like Gordon Brown can lecture the Chinese authorities on crime, punishment and justice when he and his own government have created a justice system which is the laughing stock of the world, where murderers get 'life' setences yet are out on the streets after a matter of years.

A government which lectures the Chinese on justice when Gordon Brown himself has blocked various inquiries relating to the Iraq War which could of possibly seen those who lied to us brought to justice over a war which cost over a million lives and for what? - no WMD existed as we all knew and Iraq is left a much worse place than it was under the Ba'ath regime.

[Tash.]

As I said before, people on this forum who are supporters of the European Union have argued that domestic positions of Europe can be best served as a collective voice in a world which is seeing the rise of China before its eyes; as shown by this example the EU is yet again proved useless. It can't even do what its supporters say it exists to do.

On China, China have harsh penalties for breaking the law, something maybe this country should take a look at again to stop the rise of crime and general breakdown in respect in this country. It is a joke to put it simply that a man like Gordon Brown can lecture the Chinese authorities on crime, punishment and justice when he and his own government have created a justice system which is the laughing stock of the world, where murderers get 'life' setences yet are out on the streets after a matter of years.

A government which lectures the Chinese on justice when Gordon Brown himself has blocked various inquiries relating to the Iraq War which could of possibly seen those who lied to us brought to justice over a war which cost over a million lives and for what? - no WMD existed as we all knew and Iraq is left a much worse place than it was under the Ba'ath regime.

I think what these people mean is on big big issues such as human rights (which I guess you might argue this would be included in) and climate change. This is an issue which many countries would have been able to solve between themselves, and would not have had to include a third party. Evidently this was misjudged as the Chinese did not respond to the pleas, but how was anyone supposed to know that this was the case?

So now you're saying that the Chinese judicial system is better than the one here in the UK? I am at a loss for words. The Chinese are known for repressing their own people (something which I remember you debating with me not so long ago) and now you're agreeing with their methods? Many people in China don't speak out against what goes on there because of the fear they will be exectuted. I do not have any desire to live in a country in which this is the case. If you want to perhaps China is the country for you? China impose the death penalty on many crimes, fraud for example, which I think personally is a little extreme. So you may want to laugh at our judicial system but i'm quite happy we don't kill people. And Gordon Brown nor this government created the laws of which you speak so blaming that on them is a little silly don't you think?

[-:Undertaker:-]

I think what these people mean is on big big issues such as human rights (which I guess you might argue this would be included in) and climate change. This is an issue which many countries would have been able to solve between themselves, and would not have had to include a third party. Evidently this was misjudged as the Chinese did not respond to the pleas, but how was anyone supposed to know that this was the case?They mean China fully well, they have even said China.


So now you're saying that the Chinese judicial system is better than the one here in the UK? I am at a loss for words. The Chinese are known for repressing their own people (something which I remember you debating with me not so long ago) and now you're agreeing with their methods? Many people in China don't speak out against what goes on there because of the fear they will be exectuted.It depends what parts of the system, yet again you generalise. It is like when people say the Third Reich gave a better life to its citzens intially than that of the Weimar Republic people jump on them and accuse them of being Nazis. I do believe parts of the Chinese justice system are better than that of the United Kingdoms, yes. China does not allow scum such as murderers, rapists, drug dealers and criminals in general to get away with it. They are put to death, justice served - compare this to the UK where we have Ian Huntley who has a Xbox put in his prison cell after murderering two innocent little girls.


I do not have any desire to live in a country in which this is the case. If you want to perhaps China is the country for you? China impose the death penalty on many crimes, fraud for example, which I think personally is a little extreme. So you may want to laugh at our judicial system but i'm quite happy we don't kill people. And Gordon Brown nor this government created the laws of which you speak so blaming that on them is a little silly don't you think?Why not?

You only have to fear the punishment if you commit the crime.

On 'you are quite happy we don't kill people' - well if you believe people like Ian Huntley should not be punished properly for their crimes then so be it, but as I have said before - the issue of the death penalty should be put to a public referendum so its the people who decide, and not people who hold positions of power like yourself who have left wing views, ones which do not represent the public of this country and never have.

Gordon Brown and the Labour government were the ones who relaxed prison sentences, they were the ones who failed to build prisons so that courts are under pressue to allow people to be let off - the blame lies squarely at their feet, so no, I don't think its silly at all, I think its common sense. Labour have had over a decade in power now, its time for them to stop blaming everything they caused on the Tories and start taking some resposonsibility for once.

Of course they won't, because none of them understand the concept of serving the people. They exist to only serve themselves.

[AgnesIO]

Agreed. I think execution is a bit too harsh for drug smuggling. In the UK people who deal drugs get about 12+ years or so. Government wouldn't even think about giving him the death penalty. I guess all countries are different then? But still, a bit to harsh for drug dealing. If it was because of murder, I would understand it then.

That's only because the goverment here are ******* pathetic.

[Dragorn]

Wth, 'An English man', more like a man from pakistan!

[AgnesIO]

Wth, 'An English man', more like a man from pakistan!

He could ahev lived here all his life, and his parents could have lived here all there lives.

[Jordy]

Thank you for bringing the EU debate up once again whoever did this (I don't actually think it was Undertaker for once).

The EU has spoke out against China in this case much like the UK.

First of all there's this European Union statement: "The European Union condemns in the strongest terms the execution of Akmal Shaikh. It deeply regrets the fact that China has not heeded the repeated calls by the European Union and one of its member states for the death sentence passed against Mr Shaikh to be commuted."

And then, current leaders of the EU, Sweden, also spoke out: "The European Union is firmly opposed to the use of the death penalty in any case, whatever the reason for it. If anyone should be convicted for drug smuggling, they should be convicted for it and they should be given a prison sentence. That could be a long one – that's up to the individual countries to decide – but the death penalty is unacceptable in each and every case."

There you are, the EU did react. There's nothing else they can really do, and I'm sure if they were to sanction China or something (Which would be a silly thing to do anyway) you would only complain they're not only taking our sovereignty and creating our laws, they'd be representing the UK and creating sanctions too.

[Robbie]

@Dragorn - He migrated as a child, gained citizenship, so he is classed as a british national, which is just what the news has said.

[Tash.]

It depends what parts of the system, yet again you generalise. It is like when people say the Third Reich gave a better life to its citzens intially than that of the Weimar Republic people jump on them and accuse them of being Nazis. I do believe parts of the Chinese justice system are better than that of the United Kingdoms, yes. China does not allow scum such as murderers, rapists, drug dealers and criminals in general to get away with it. They are put to death, justice served - compare this to the UK where we have Ian Huntley who has a Xbox put in his prison cell after murderering two innocent little girls.

I'm not generalising at all, their whole system is corrupt and repressive and I think it's a little hypocritical of you to agree with them on issues when you're so against repression of freedom of speech. Obviously if you use murderers it changes things but this man did not kill anyone, and arguably he did nothing wrong and yet he was killed.


You only have to fear the punishment if you commit the crime.

Not at all true it would seem, this man may have smuggled the drugs but perhaps not knowingly and no matter what you say that's unjust. Not to mention that you also have to fear the punishment incase you get dragged into a situation in which you've done nothing and yet a miscarriage of justice gets you killed. To an extent you can undo some of the suffering caused if a person is jailed, but once you kill someone and realise that they were actually innocent, then what do you do? I want you to answer me that, what do you say to their family?


On 'you are quite happy we don't kill people' - well if you believe people like Ian Huntley should not be punished properly for their crimes then so be it, but as I have said before - the issue of the death penalty should be put to a public referendum so its the people who decide, and not people who hold positions of power like yourself who have left wing views, ones which do not represent the public of this country and never have.

I don't think killing Ian Huntley is the right course of action no, but that doesn't mean I agree with how he currently lives because I don't. I've said many times that prison needs to be tougher but killing him is what he want, he's tried several times so to me that indicates he's a coward. As for the whole left wing thing, yet again presuming my politics, if these opinions did not reflect the public they wouldn't have voted them in now would they?


Gordon Brown and the Labour government were the ones who relaxed prison sentences, they were the ones who failed to build prisons so that courts are under pressue to allow people to be let off - the blame lies squarely at their feet, so no, I don't think its silly at all, I think its common sense. Labour have had over a decade in power now, its time for them to stop blaming everything they caused on the Tories and start taking some resposonsibility for once.

Of course they won't, because none of them understand the concept of serving the people. They exist to only serve themselves.

And yes, the labour party itself has been in power for over a decade, but right there you just blamed Gordon Brown, who has been in power for nowhere near that amount of time and you know it. Yes he's been involved but ultimately the decisions have not been his for all of those 10 years.

Finally, no they don't have concept of serving the people, but there again neither do the vast majority of the human race, serving oneself is a primitive thing and it goes against what makes you up as a person to serve others above yourself. With this being true, no government will or has acted solely on behalf of the people.




Thank you for bringing the EU debate up once again whoever did this (I don't actually think it was Undertaker for once).

The EU has spoke out against China in this case much like the UK.

First of all there's this European Union statement: "The European Union condemns in the strongest terms the execution of Akmal Shaikh. It deeply regrets the fact that China has not heeded the repeated calls by the European Union and one of its member states for the death sentence passed against Mr Shaikh to be commuted."

And then, current leaders of the EU, Sweden, also spoke out: "The European Union is firmly opposed to the use of the death penalty in any case, whatever the reason for it. If anyone should be convicted for drug smuggling, they should be convicted for it and they should be given a prison sentence. That could be a long one – that's up to the individual countries to decide – but the death penalty is unacceptable in each and every case."

There you are, the EU did react. There's nothing else they can really do, and I'm sure if they were to sanction China or something (Which would be a silly thing to do anyway) you would only complain they're not only taking our sovereignty and creating our laws, they'd be representing the UK and creating sanctions too.

Thank you, I can't wait to see what he has to say about this. It will be most interesting.

[-:Undertaker:-]

I'm not generalising at all, their whole system is corrupt and repressive and I think it's a little hypocritical of you to agree with them on issues when you're so against repression of freedom of speech. Obviously if you use murderers it changes things but this man did not kill anyone, and arguably he did nothing wrong and yet he was killed.I don't, western democracy cannot be imposed on every nation. It does not work, again you need to get out of this mentality. On freedom of speech, freedom of speech has nothing to do with the Chinese executing a drug dealer, he dealt drugs in their country - he dies. It could not be more simple.


Not at all true it would seem, this man may have smuggled the drugs but perhaps not knowingly and no matter what you say that's unjust. Not to mention that you also have to fear the punishment incase you get dragged into a situation in which you've done nothing and yet a miscarriage of justice gets you killed. To an extent you can undo some of the suffering caused if a person is jailed, but once you kill someone and realise that they were actually innocent, then what do you do? I want you to answer me that, what do you say to their family?The Chinese do not have to say anything to his family, he was caught smuggling drugs across the Chinese mainland and he got caught. I'd say he deserved it and I know if my father or member of family was caught smuggling drugs I wouldn't want anything to do with them.

On the death penalty in general, ok thats your opinion. Lets put it to a referendum and let the British public decide.


I don't think killing Ian Huntley is the right course of action no, but that doesn't mean I agree with how he currently lives because I don't. I've said many times that prison needs to be tougher but killing him is what he want, he's tried several times so to me that indicates he's a coward. As for the whole left wing thing, yet again presuming my politics, if these opinions did not reflect the public they wouldn't have voted them in now would they? Let him kill himself, I couldn't care whether hes a coward or not aslong as he is dead. Again, let the British people decide whether or not they want people like Ian Huntley to face death or not. He is already a coward, he killed two little girls - now let him commit his final cowardly act which this time, myself and the majority of the public will be thankful for.


And yes, the labour party itself has been in power for over a decade, but right there you just blamed Gordon Brown, who has been in power for nowhere near that amount of time and you know it. Yes he's been involved but ultimately the decisions have not been his for all of those 10 years.I can't believe i'm seeing this.

It may of flew over you but do you not reconisge the fact that Gordon Brown was Chancellor of the Exechquer from 1997 until Tony Blair resigned as Prime Minister?. Gordon Brown was second in command, nothing passed unless he allowed it. The Chancellor is the second most powerful person in government, if not on the same power level as the Prime Minister himself.


Finally, no they don't have concept of serving the people, but there again neither do the vast majority of the human race, serving oneself is a primitive thing and it goes against what makes you up as a person to serve others above yourself. With this being true, no government will or has acted solely on behalf of the people.A government can act on behalf of the people, by giving the people a referendum on important issues such as the death penalty, you talk about serving ones own interests yet you do not seem to support giving people a fair referendum on issues that you don't agree with.

You just effectivly destroyed your own argument, you cannot argue that they do not understand the concept of serving people when you yourself do not seem to support letting the people vote on issues which you do not agree with, and issues that, if they went to a referendum - would most likely pass in the opposite direction of your points of view.

If the United Kingdom held a referendum on the death penalty, it would pass.

[Jordy]

If the United Kingdom held a referendum on the death penalty, it would pass.It's difficult to tell seeing as whenever surveys have been done this, they've been done shortly afterwards the cases of things like Baby P which inevitably makes their decision more bias.

Every few years there is a free vote in parliament about restoring the death penalty and it's always overwhelmingly opposed. Elected politicians should make decisions on this not the general public. Elected politicians make informed decisions, hence why we vote them in and hence why it's a democracy.

If there was a referendum on whether to have VAT, probably about 90% of the population would vote to scrap it seeing as they'd save lots of money. The other 10% would realise that the treasury needs that money to function and would therefore vote to keep it.

[-:Undertaker:-]

It's difficult to tell seeing as whenever surveys have been done this, they've been done shortly afterwards the cases of things like Baby P which inevitably makes their decision more bias.

Every few years there is a free vote in parliament about restoring the death penalty and it's always overwhelmingly opposed. Elected politicians should make decisions on this not the general public. Elected politicians make informed decisions, hence why we vote them in and hence why it's a democracy.

If there was a referendum on whether to have VAT, probably about 90% of the population would vote to scrap it seeing as they'd save lots of money. The other 10% would realise that the treasury needs that money to function and would therefore vote to keep it.

Let us put it to a vote then and we'll see what happens, its fair and free. On MPs, well in that logic we are also too stupid to vote in MPs and henceforth all elections should be scrapped. You say they make informed decisions, well is it any wonder why nobody gives a damn about politics anymore because why should they? - no matter what their opinions the politicians are 'always the ones who are right'.

Heres a good example of why they are not, Caroline Flint who was Labour Minister for Europe at the time told us that we shouldn't have a referendum on the Lisbon Treaty because we did not understand it. It later came out that while she was saying that and telling us it was right for Britain, she hadn't read it either.

On referendums, they would not include finance or national security. It would cover issues such as death penalty, European Union and any other issues, especially at a local level such as whether a new park should be built or a new leisure centre.