David Cameron

[United-Clowgon]

Was gonna post this in the debate section but i can't. :(

Anyway what do you think of the man?

I think he's a little fake tbh. I think what he does that is in the public eye is all a little "scripted" if you know what i mean. It's like he's trying to be someone he's not.

[Black_Apalachi]

A politician then? :P

[Bun]

fake, dishonest, sly, sleezy, gready, snooty. basically he makes my blood boil. ugh did you see that video before of his family trying to show they are 'normal'? how embarrassing.

[MrPinkPanther]

Was gonna post this in the debate section but i can't. :(

Anyway what do you think of the man?

I think he's a little fake tbh. I think what he does that is in the public eye is all a little "scripted" if you know what i mean. It's like he's trying to be someone he's not.
I totally agree. Like Nick Clegg said in an article in the Independent on Homosexuality. A few years ago Cameron was against it but now he's trying to act really liberal and is pro-Gay. Sheer populism.


A politician then? :P
People say that but the majority of politicians aren't "Slimy" and money grabbing. It's just the media that spins it to make it appear like they are. It really gets on my nerves.

[Black_Apalachi]

People say that but the majority of politicians aren't "Slimy" and money grabbing. It's just the media that spins it to make it appear like they are. It really gets on my nerves.

Didn't say he was.

[Immenseman]

vile creature.

[United-Clowgon]

A politician then? :P

You get a few that are corrupted but like most things, you get the goodies and the baddies. ;)


fake, dishonest, sly, sleezy, gready, snooty. basically he makes my blood boil. ugh did you see that video before of his family trying to show they are 'normal'? how embarrassing.

I did indeed. It was like he did it to make the public feel all sorry for him and that. I can't believe he used his family to do such a thing.


I totally agree. Like Nick Clegg said in an article in the Independent on Homosexuality. A few years ago Cameron was against it but now he's trying to act really liberal and is pro-Gay. Sheer populism.


Yeah, he'll doing anything to win over people's votes. But i think generally, everyone knows why a sly little rat he is. The papers know it, even the people who lives in his constituency knows it.

I bet he hates riding to Parliament. - Another thing that he's doing to win over votes. Dammn i hope doesn't come to power.



vile creature.

LOL. I don't think you could of put it any better.

*Waits for -Undertaker- to back his case. :P :eusa_danc

[Immenseman]

undertaker doesn't back conservative

[United-Clowgon]

undertaker doesn't back conservative

:o didn't he before?

[Immenseman]

i think he's just anything but labour lol

[Bun]

undertaker used to be 'u-word'/tory. now he's lost trust in tories (seen the light) and to be fair to him, he is just 'u-word'.

i ain't mentioning the word or this thread will turn into another argument. :(

[United-Clowgon]

Well all those debates about the conservatives before... for a person who supports Labour, he was really in favour for what they did and stand for in the years when they were in power. :P

EDIT: Ah ok.

[Ardemax]

he's wrecked the country before he's even started

new world record yey

[-:Undertaker:-]

Well all those debates about the conservatives before... for a person who supports Labour, he was really in favour for what they did and stand for in the years when they were in power. :P

EDIT: Ah ok.

I still do and always will believe that the true Conservatives are people such as Margaret Thatcher and Winston Churchill, people who did not lie, people who did not become politicians simply for a career. They are true Conservatives ane some remain in the Conservative Party today; David Davies, Daniel Hannan, Michael Howard, Ann Widdecombe, William Hague and others.

David Cameron is not a Conservative. All-women shortlists? All-black shortlists? All-gay shortlists? - that is not Conservatism, that is socialism. To get somewhere Conservatism always places who is best for the job in that job/situation, unlike socialism where socialism puts people in a job for who they are (PC).

Iron cast promise to hold a referendum on the Lisbon Treaty? - it simply melted away. While I think anyone can do better than the Labour Party, I see Cameron as another Ted Heath and hopefully if history follows as it did in the 1970s, we'll have a leader like Thatcher within the decade.

UKIP is for Conservatism, so i'd ask anyone who supports the Conservatives - why vote in a party and a man who are just merely BluLabour?. I want Cameron to do good as this country needs it, but I really cannot see it.

[United-Clowgon]

I still do and always will believe that the true Conservatives are people such as Margaret Thatcher and Winston Churchill, people who did not lie, people who did not become politicians simply for a career. They are true Conservatives ane some remain in the Conservative Party today; David Davies, Daniel Hannan, Michael Howard, Ann Widdecombe, William Hague and others.

David Cameron is not a Conservative. All-women shortlists? All-black shortlists? All-gay shortlists? - that is not Conservatism, that is socialism. To get somewhere Conservatism always places who is best for the job in that job/situation, unlike socialism where socialism puts people in a job for who they are (PC).

Iron cast promise to hold a referendum on the Lisbon Treaty? - it simply melted away. While I think anyone can do better than the Labour Party, I see Cameron as another Ted Heath and hopefully if history follows as it did in the 1970s, we'll have a leader like Thatcher within the decade.

UKIP is for Conservatism, so i'd ask anyone who supports the Conservatives - why vote in a party and a man who are just merely BluLabour?. I want Cameron to do good as this country needs it, but I really cannot see it.

Ahhh ok. I understand you properly now. I don't think they'll come into power. Labour isn't telling anyone what cuts they'll be making where i think even by doing this will still win them the Election. The Torries and the other mainstream parties have clearly stated what needs to be cut back. However, with the Torries, I'm not sure if they'll get in the votes for going to honesty policy. (That's if what they are saying that they will they cut) turns out to be half of what they plan to do.

[-:Undertaker:-]

Ahhh ok. I understand you properly now. I don't think they'll come into power. Labour isn't telling anyone what cuts they'll be making where i think even by doing this will still win them the Election. The Torries and the other mainstream parties have clearly stated what needs to be cut back. However, with the Torries, I'm not sure if they'll get in the votes for going to honesty policy. (That's if what they are saying that they will they cut) turns out to be half of what they plan to do.

The Conservatives have not said anything properly which I have seen which has convinced me that they can get rid of the budget debt which Labour has [yet again] created. Call-me-Dave has promised not to cut foreign aid, infact what on earth has he promised to cut?

When Mrs Thatcher gained office in 1979 she cut everything;- she cut subsidies to failing businesses, she cut over-inflated University budgets, she cut foreign aid, she cut red tape for business and government, she went to Brussels and told the EU [then called EC] to give the United Kingdom a rebate and in the end, she succeeded in creating an economy which has kept the United Kingdom a powerful nation - can anyone see Dave doing this?

I certainly can't.

[MrPinkPanther]

I certainly can't.

Yet you can see UKIP doing this? I certainly can't.

The Liberal Democrats are the ones to watch this election. I can see them becoming a more mainstream party with the possibility of opening up a 3 way election in 2015.

[-:Undertaker:-]

Yet you can see UKIP doing this? I certainly can't.

The Liberal Democrats are the ones to watch this election. I can see them becoming a more mainstream party with the possibility of opening up a 3 way election in 2015.

If they were a mainstream party I certainly could, they are true Conservatives unlike what we have now headed by David Cameron. On the Liberal Democrats - you sound like a disaffected Labour voter who now has switched support (for the time being) to the Liberal Democrats but will soon re-join supporting Labour when they are in opposition against the Tories. A wild statement you make, but you shouldn't say something is going to happen just because you support it - the reality is that UKIP, Liberal Democrats, BNP and all other parties will not gain the keys to No.10 unless the voting system is reformed, and even then - with a reformed voting system the Liberal Democrats would most likely be pushed out even futher (as shown by the 2009 European Parliamentary Elections) by UKIP, the BNP and others.

Want higher taxes and a government that interferes in everything? - vote the Liberal Democrats and Labour.

[MrPinkPanther]

On the Liberal Democrats - you sound like a disaffected Labour voter who now has switched support (for the time being) to the Liberal Democrats but will soon re-join supporting Labour when they are in opposition against the Tories.
Not at all :). I'm a member of the Liberal Democrats, am in frequent contact with Lib Dem MP's and went to see Nick Clegg speak just last week. I am disillusioned with Labour but I happen to think that Tony Blair has done a lot for this country and you may be surprised to find that I also think Margaret Thatcher did us a lot of good too (Although in a very heavy handed way). I will never vote Tory or Labour in the foreseeable future just because I think both have betrayed their core ideologies and are completely populist.


A wild statement you make, but you shouldn't say something is going to happen just because you support it - the reality is that UKIP, Liberal Democrats, BNP and all other parties will not gain the keys to No.10 unless the voting system is reformed, and even then - with a reformed voting system the Liberal Democrats would most likely be pushed out even futher (as shown by the 2009 European Parliamentary Elections) by UKIP, the BNP and others.
Not true, a similar situation has happened in Canada and Nick Clegg has recieved a lot of publicity recently because of the Hung parliament issue. The Guardian conducted a survey and it showed that after seeing Nick Clegg speak a significant proportion of the electorate said they would consider voting for him. This is going to be reinforced by the 3 way TV debates. I do think FPTP is highly corrupt but if a party is popular enough then it won't stop it from reaching No.10.


Want higher taxes and a government that interferes in everything? - vote the Liberal Democrats and Labour.
I sure do! The fact is we either pay taxes for the service or we pay for it privately and the government gives us the best value for money in services because they aren't attempting to make a profit. Our education, health etc systems are some of the best in the world, surely you can't criticise that?

[-:Undertaker:-]

Not at all :). I'm a member of the Liberal Democrats, am in frequent contact with Lib Dem MP's and went to see Nick Clegg speak just last week. I am disillusioned with Labour but I happen to think that Tony Blair has done a lot for this country and you may be surprised to find that I also think Margaret Thatcher did us a lot of good too (Although in a very heavy handed way). I will never vote Tory or Labour in the foreseeable future just because I think both have betrayed their core ideologies and are completely populist.

I wouldn't even call them populist, nothing they have done or proposed matches any of the (right-wing) opinions I hear everywhere. I think nearly everyone I have spoken to is right-wing, even Labour supporters are right-wing in this country.

The United Kingdom is right wing and always will be, this is why the politicians need to stop moving to the left and centre and start addressing what we want and not what they think would be best for us. This is exactly why I support UKIP;- they are right-wing, but also have the populist element where they would hold referendums on issues such as the European Union and the death penalty. Democracy needs to be revived and that is the only way it will be.


Not true, a similar situation has happened in Canada and Nick Clegg has recieved a lot of publicity recently because of the Hung parliament issue. The Guardian conducted a survey and it showed that after seeing Nick Clegg speak a significant proportion of the electorate said they would consider voting for him. This is going to be reinforced by the 3 way TV debates. I do think FPTP is highly corrupt but if a party is popular enough then it won't stop it from reaching No.10.

The Guardian is a very left wing newspaper and has a low cirulation because it is left wing, so it would have higher results for a left-wing party. Although on the Hung Parliament issue, I am sort of hoping for it also;- it would deprive Labour to make a government, would wake the Tories up over Europe and finally if the Liberal Democrats do end up with the playing hand, they would drive through voting reform.


I sure do! The fact is we either pay taxes for the service or we pay for it privately and the government gives us the best value for money in services because they aren't attempting to make a profit. Our education, health etc systems are some of the best in the world, surely you can't criticise that?

Our education systems are not the best in the world at all and has seriously declined in recent years. My former Geography teacher for instance told me that the work GCSE students are doing today is the work that Year 7's were doing 10 years ago. On the taxation issue; it is not up a government to take away earned money so it can spend it itself. This is the problem we had in the 1970s, government can not spend properly and never will be able to. If you believe in bigger government then you are asking for another winter of discontent.

Government cannot create wealth, jobs or working services;- only private sector can and ever will be able to.

[MrPinkPanther]

I wouldn't even call them populist, nothing they have done or proposed matches any of the (right-wing) opinions I hear everywhere. I think nearly everyone I have spoken to is right-wing, even Labour supporters are right-wing in this country.

Ha ha, that first comment did make me laugh. Its true that no one liked Iraq etc.


The United Kingdom is right wing and always will be, this is why the politicians need to stop moving to the left and centre and start addressing what we want and not what they think would be best for us. This is exactly why I support UKIP;- they are right-wing, but also have the populist element where they would hold referendums on issues such as the European Union and the death penalty. Democracy needs to be revived and that is the only way it will be.

I'd argue quite the opposite in fact. If you compare Britain to America and most of the western world Britain is very left wing and can appear socialist at times. By Italy's standards UKIP is liberal.

I agree with referendums to a certain extent. In principal they are an excellent idea however I fear with an electorate that struggles to vote in General elections, very few will vote in referendums. For example say the Death Penalty, it's not going to be fair to hold one because your average citizen won't vote in it, only the people that care passionately (for or against) either way which gives a warped sense of society. It will give way to extremism.


Although on the Hung Parliament issue, I am sort of hoping for it also;- it would deprive Labour to make a government, would wake the Tories up over Europe and finally if the Liberal Democrats do end up with the playing hand, they would drive through voting reform.
Indeed. I do however think it will be difficult for the Tories to do anything with Europe because whoever the Liberals are allied with, they are a principled bunch and won't vote against Europe.

GO STV :D


Our education systems are not the best in the world at all and has seriously declined in recent years. My former Geography teacher for instance told me that the work GCSE students are doing today is the work that Year 7's were doing 10 years ago.
A slight exaggeration but in principle I agree. Exams ARE too easy now and it does annoy me. Sorry, I should have made "Education" clearer, i was talking about "Higher education" in Universities because I was thinking about the proposed budget cuts there.


On the taxation issue; it is not up a government to take away earned money so it can spend it itself. This is the problem we had in the 1970s, government can not spend properly and never will be able to. If you believe in bigger government then you are asking for another winter of discontent.

It's up to the government to provide good services for its citizens and if they are inadequate then yes, they will have to raise tax. I personally believe that the parties can't keep promising lower income tax, I am aware they gather some back via stealth taxes but not as much as they would from higher incomes tax.

As for the Winter of Discontent. It wasn't caused by Government spending but rather a blunder on "Jim's" part. After the 3 day week Trade Unions agreed a pay freeze and in '78 they demanded a pay rise. The problem however was the government only offered them a 5% pay increase which they to be way too low and so they began to start asking for extortinate amounts. Basically Ford managed to negotiate a 17% pay increase for workers and this set the precedent for other companies pay rises. This resulted in Strikes...blah blah blah...Trade Union power...Crisis, what crisis?....Jim singing to the TUC. I'd go into more depth but sadly I feel this is off the point :D


Government cannot create wealth, jobs or working services;- only private sector can and ever will be able to.
Depends on the sector. I'm not saying we should re-nationalise everything. All I am saying is that we need to invest more in certain government services in particular: Higher education and State pensions.

[-:Undertaker:-]

I'd argue quite the opposite in fact. If you compare Britain to America and most of the western world Britain is very left wing and can appear socialist at times. By Italy's standards UKIP is liberal. Britain by the country perhaps, its people are not.


I agree with referendums to a certain extent. In principal they are an excellent idea however I fear with an electorate that struggles to vote in General elections, very few will vote in referendums. For example say the Death Penalty, it's not going to be fair to hold one because your average citizen won't vote in it, only the people that care passionately (for or against) either way which gives a warped sense of society. It will give way to extremism.I'm afraid thats exactly what is wrong with politics, people just don't bother voting because things they want (EU withdrawal, death penalty) are just not implemented when the majority want. I can assure you, hold a referendum on the death penalty and you would get a turnout far higher than any seen in any recent election.


Indeed. I do however think it will be difficult for the Tories to do anything with Europe because whoever the Liberals are allied with, they are a principled bunch and won't vote against Europe.The Tories will learn (hopefully) not to ignore Europe and other issues such as that at the next election, of course this all depends on whether or not UKIP/BNP can make any impact (thus losing the Conservaties seats as they have done in the past) and whether or not it comes to a small majority/hung parliament.


A slight exaggeration but in principle I agree. Exams ARE too easy now and it does annoy me. Sorry, I should have made "Education" clearer, i was talking about "Higher education" in Universities because I was thinking about the proposed budget cuts there.On higher education, it needs cutting back;- there are a lot of courses being offered which give students little hope of having any success in life and is costing us money, both while they are at university and while they are unemployed on the welfare because they cannot get a job.


It's up to the government to provide good services for its citizens and if they are inadequate then yes, they will have to raise tax. I personally believe that the parties can't keep promising lower income tax, I am aware they gather some back via stealth taxes but not as much as they would from higher incomes tax.The services the government provides could be good if they cut back on the amount of services they provide;- for example I would not allow any state funding for things such as gay groups, muslim groups - aka minority groups. Ontop of that government needs downsizing and needs to stop telling everybody what to do, because I don't know whether they have noticed or not but nobody pays a blind bit of attention to any government advice groups, adverts and so on which cost an absolute astounding amount to the taxpayer.


As for the Winter of Discontent. It wasn't caused by Government spending but rather a blunder on "Jim's" part. After the 3 day week Trade Unions agreed a pay freeze and in '78 they demanded a pay rise. The problem however was the government only offered them a 5% pay increase which they to be way too low and so they began to start asking for extortinate amounts. Basically Ford managed to negotiate a 17% pay increase for workers and this set the precedent for other companies pay rises. This resulted in Strikes...blah blah blah...Trade Union power...Crisis, what crisis?....Jim singing to the TUC. I'd go into more depth but sadly I feel this is off the point :DThe factors influenced government spending, thats why it was so serious. The government kept putting up taxes, which ment business would not set up here and that basically ment we did not have any jobs or wealth coming into the country, but yeah as you said thats only a part of it.


Depends on the sector. I'm not saying we should re-nationalise everything. All I am saying is that we need to invest more in certain government services in particular: Higher education and State pensions.State pensions should be downsized in importance and private pensions encouraged. On pensions anyway, they must not be too generous because those who worked all their life should not be treated the same as those who didn't work all their life and contribute to the system.

[MrPinkPanther]

Sorry, I'm not going to have time to keep replying, coursework to do. Our posts seem to be getting bigger and bigger and although there is some consensus I think we both know we are never going to agree!



For example I would not allow any state funding for things such as gay groups, muslim groups - aka minority groups.
One thing though, what do you mean by the above? Pressure groups or what?

[Mickword]

I woke up in the middle of the night about him, I know it sounds weird.

I was dreaming that Gordon Brown got killed :S, and he came into power. I could of cried for some reason. Now I know im losing the plot.

[-:Undertaker:-]

Sorry, I'm not going to have time to keep replying, coursework to do. Our posts seem to be getting bigger and bigger and although there is some consensus I think we both know we are never going to agree!


One thing though, what do you mean by the above? Pressure groups or what?

Pressure groups, social groups. Things with names such as the Black Police Officers Association, Gay Youth and so on. None of these should recieve a penny of government money and if they didn't, we'd have money to spend on our crumbling residential roads and bridges - things which benefit the majority and not the minority simply for the exercise of being politically correct.