PDA

View Full Version : Is the USA coming to its end?



-:Undertaker:-
27-01-2010, 10:32 PM
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_CUslMXeaqWE/ShnZ3-8UuMI/AAAAAAAAAqs/p3fMfecggfk/s320/american-flag.jpghttp://3.bp.blogspot.com/_CUslMXeaqWE/ShnZ3-8UuMI/AAAAAAAAAqs/p3fMfecggfk/s320/american-flag.jpghttp://3.bp.blogspot.com/_CUslMXeaqWE/ShnZ3-8UuMI/AAAAAAAAAqs/p3fMfecggfk/s320/american-flag.jpg


The Outstanding Public Debt of the United States as of 27 Jan 2010 at 10:15:41 PM GMT is: $12,312,807,994,267.34 - the estimated population of the United States is 307,731,975 so each citizens share of this debt is $40,011.47 - since the 28th September 2007 the national debt has continued to increase at an average of $3.88 billion per day.

http://brillig.com/debt_clock/

With the rise of the Peoples Republic of China, do you think the United States, just like the British Empire has had its day and that the American Empire will collapse economically as the British Empire did after World War II - it would be interesting to hear from some Americans on here on what they feel.

In my opinion I want to hope that the United States will continue to be the world player, but thats looking more and more unlikely as time passes by with its wars and its uncontrolled spending. The western world is in trouble, and when America hits the fan we really face a bleak outlook. The US has had many faults, its worst being the Suez Crisis in the 1950s and the way it treated Britain, and Iraq of course - but overall i'd much rather have the Anglo-American rule than a Chinese sphere of influence.

Do you think the United States is in irreversible decline and do you think that overall since 1945 it has had a generally positive impact on world affairs as the main global power?

Lew
27-01-2010, 11:44 PM
Oh no.

Edited by MattGarner (Acting Assistant General Manager): Please do not post pointlessly.

HotelUser
27-01-2010, 11:55 PM
No, because so many multinational corporations are based and came from the USA.

RedStratocas
28-01-2010, 01:40 AM
of course the united states wont always be the supreme power, but i think our position won't change significantly any time soon. while we are facing economic as well as foreign policy woes, we've dealt with much worse and recovered.

i think people severely overestimate the supposed rise of china. china's poverty is much larger than people think, their population will decline, their human rights are less than tolerable (while this is debatable, i believe the freer the nation, the more prosperous it may be), and they are in severe debt themselves. a significant amount of their employment depends on other nations. they would need far far more independent job growth in order to be the superpower that the united states is/once was, but thats not really going anywhere from what we can see now.

Ardemax
28-01-2010, 06:29 AM
no, and i don't exactly know why you got the idea it would come to an end

our debt is big, doesn't mean we're coming to an end

america's is bigger because there's more people in it

it will settle out in a few years and everyone will be hunkey dorey

FlyingJesus
28-01-2010, 10:53 AM
of course the united states wont always be the supreme power, but i think our position won't change significantly any time soon. while we are facing economic as well as foreign policy woes, we've dealt with much worse and recovered.

I agree entirely with this part, it's foolish to think that one nation can keep supremacy forever unless they somehow attain (and maintain) total global dominance, but I don't think it's America's time to fall by a long shot just yet


i think people severely overestimate the supposed rise of china. china's poverty is much larger than people think, their population will decline, their human rights are less than tolerable (while this is debatable, i believe the freer the nation, the more prosperous it may be), and they are in severe debt themselves. a significant amount of their employment depends on other nations. they would need far far more independent job growth in order to be the superpower that the united states is/once was, but thats not really going anywhere from what we can see now.

I agree here with your conclusion (in that I don't believe China to be anywhere near ready for a true takeover - they had an attempt at a big revolution a few years back that fizzled out because they simply couldn't afford for it to spread through the whole country) but I'd argue against you on the idea of "the freer the nation, the more prosperous it may be". Prosperous in terms of average wealth perhaps, but human rights aside if a country is paying little or nothing ie: through slavery or forced labour for pittance, then production goes on without such an outflow. The most historically prosperous nations - Egypt, Rome, Persia, Greece, etc - have all made huge use of slaves and the extortion of peasantry. It's not a nice way of doing things but without one or both of these things no nation would ever have grown up properly.

Misawa
28-01-2010, 10:59 AM
China will never become the world's "supreme power" because of how messed up the country is, politically, financially and economically. China has such poverty that the Japanese pull them across the border and basically enslave them.

DrLacero
28-01-2010, 11:31 AM
No, because America will never pay off their debt, so it's irrelevant.

dbgtz
28-01-2010, 12:28 PM
Na America will be number 1 until world war 3 where russia or china lead.

ifuseekamy
28-01-2010, 01:11 PM
I thought the EU was the new world superpower :S well it probably will be if it isn't.

dbgtz
28-01-2010, 02:17 PM
But the EU ain't a country.

RedStratocas
28-01-2010, 03:38 PM
I agree here with your conclusion (in that I don't believe China to be anywhere near ready for a true takeover - they had an attempt at a big revolution a few years back that fizzled out because they simply couldn't afford for it to spread through the whole country) but I'd argue against you on the idea of "the freer the nation, the more prosperous it may be". Prosperous in terms of average wealth perhaps, but human rights aside if a country is paying little or nothing ie: through slavery or forced labour for pittance, then production goes on without such an outflow. The most historically prosperous nations - Egypt, Rome, Persia, Greece, etc - have all made huge use of slaves and the extortion of peasantry. It's not a nice way of doing things but without one or both of these things no nation would ever have grown up properly.

hmmm, this is a very good point. but i think with time there will be less tolerance of other nations to do business with a country with poor human rights or employment, and the most prosperous countries rely heavily on exports as well as self-sufficiency. however i concede to your last point, i had not thought about it that way.

the u.s. has such a large worldwide influence, even in our recession at the moment the entire world is also suffering economically. in order for us to be surpassed, we would have to suffer from a national economic or social crisis while another nation is somehow gaining either directly or indirectly from it.

dbgtz
28-01-2010, 03:42 PM
Were not in a recession.

Jordy
28-01-2010, 03:51 PM
I'm unsure on it's future, it won't fall anytime soon that's for sure but perhaps in our lifetime.

The USA is definitely a good thing, it's a perfect example of how successful Capitalism is and the majority of time it's influence is very good for the world. Just look at how much money, troops and resources it has put into Haiti in recent weeks. All technology over the past 60 years seems to have something to do with America, the take off of computers, internet, jet travel and satellites etc. What has China brought us? Nothing, it's just manufactured lots of it :P

It's obsession with oil is also likely to contribute to it's downfall (and this so called WWIII which will inevitably be over oil). It's wealth has a lot to do with it's oil and influencing oil in the Middle East etc, when it's all gone there's going to be an issue.

Wig44.
28-01-2010, 04:47 PM
But the EU ain't a country.

How exactly does that stop it being a super power? :S

Jordy
28-01-2010, 05:58 PM
How exactly does that stop it being a super power? :SEasily, that's like grouping together Spain, Japan, India and Brazil and saying you have a world super power :P

The only exception to this is colonies where they are under control from one country. For the time being, the EU has little influence over the military and foreign affairs of it's member states therefore it cannot be considered a super-power. The EU does however control/influence the economies of member states but IMO a super power is based on either military power or the combination of military power & economics.

Wig44.
28-01-2010, 06:01 PM
Easily, that's like grouping together Spain, Japan, India and Brazil and saying you have a world super power :P

The only exception to this is colonies where they are under control from one country. For the time being, the EU has little influence over the military and foreign affairs of it's member states therefore it cannot be considered a super-power. The EU does however control/influence the economies of member states but IMO a super power is based on either military power or the combination of military power & economics.

You've misunderstood how the EU can become a super power. Look at the economic and military power the EU has. So yes, the EU is/will become a super power.

Jordy
28-01-2010, 06:05 PM
You've misunderstood how the EU can become a super power. Look at the economic and military power the EU has. So yes, the EU is/will become a super power.Yes if you did combine the military power and economic power between all it's member states you would have a super power or something very close it. However the EU does not involve it's self with the military of it's nation states so it therefore doesn't count seeing as there's no policies surrounding it.

For example if someone attacks Sweden, the rest of the EU are by no means forced to protect it. Or if France declares war on a country, we're not forced to join in.

Neversoft
28-01-2010, 07:12 PM
All that you know is at an end.

FlyingJesus
28-01-2010, 10:43 PM
[email protected] idea of France starting a war instead of just surrendering

Black_Apalachi
29-01-2010, 04:49 AM
China scares me as a country.

Serious question though, what if Russia turned round and declared war on the EU... does it have any powers to force any individual member states to use their armed forces to fight? Also, if that happened and say the UK was busy fighting Russia on behalf of the EU, then China came along and declared war on the UK specifically, what would happen then?! :P

VirtualG
29-01-2010, 09:44 AM
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_CUslMXeaqWE/ShnZ3-8UuMI/AAAAAAAAAqs/p3fMfecggfk/s320/american-flag.jpghttp://3.bp.blogspot.com/_CUslMXeaqWE/ShnZ3-8UuMI/AAAAAAAAAqs/p3fMfecggfk/s320/american-flag.jpghttp://3.bp.blogspot.com/_CUslMXeaqWE/ShnZ3-8UuMI/AAAAAAAAAqs/p3fMfecggfk/s320/american-flag.jpg



The Outstanding Public Debt of the United States as of 27 Jan 2010 at 10:15:41 PM GMT is: $12,312,807,994,267.34 - the estimated population of the United States is 307,731,975 so each citizens share of this debt is $40,011.47 - since the 28th September 2007 the national debt has continued to increase at an average of $3.88 billion per day.

http://brillig.com/debt_clock/

With the rise of the Peoples Republic of China, do you think the United States, just like the British Empire has had its day and that the American Empire will collapse economically as the British Empire did after World War II - it would be interesting to hear from some Americans on here on what they feel.

In my opinion I want to hope that the United States will continue to be the world player, but thats looking more and more unlikely as time passes by with its wars and its uncontrolled spending. The western world is in trouble, and when America hits the fan we really face a bleak outlook. The US has had many faults, its worst being the Suez Crisis in the 1950s and the way it treated Britain, and Iraq of course - but overall i'd much rather have the Anglo-American rule than a Chinese sphere of influence.

Do you think the United States is in irreversible decline and do you think that overall since 1945 it has had a generally positive impact on world affairs as the main global power?

Well, the first mistake is that America does not have an Empire but I do understand what you mean (also, the British Empire has not fallen to crap, there are many countries still under control of the british monarchy/empire but yes, it has gone down hill but under it's own will [giving countries their own independence] unlike countries such as Russia or Germany after the cold war and WW1&2)
Next. China does have a huge population and a large amount of money, military, etc but they will implode on their self economically and because they just cant support their population (as predicted by proffesors and others inc. myself)
Also, I know for a fact that America is the most hated country in the world so I dont believe many people share your viewpoint on the whole 'Keep America in Power" as they Phunk Up majorly and regularly. That guy (just remembered his name, nostradamus or something) predicted that Russia will become a super power again but I cant really see that happening. I think Indonesia will be MASSIVE because they've got a large population and a up and coming military (much better than China will be, I can promise you, and Im kinda scared coz Australia will be one of the first places they invade). But I think a Scandanavian country has a big chance of becoming a superpower simply becuase they are rich, quite large and have great allies.

-:Undertaker:-
29-01-2010, 12:55 PM
No, because so many multinational corporations are based and came from the USA.

That can easily change, most major corporations were based in the United Kingdom in the days of the British Empire, later the United States took the lead and now companies are leaving the west and moving to the East, along with the fact China offers a massive market and the upcoming businesses are mainly all Chinese.


no, and i don't exactly know why you got the idea it would come to an end

our debt is big, doesn't mean we're coming to an end

america's is bigger because there's more people in it

it will settle out in a few years and everyone will be hunkey dorey

I got the idea and so have a lot of others because the economy of China is expected to overtake that of the United States in the 2020s. That is a major sign that things are changing as much as I wish them not to.


No, because America will never pay off their debt, so it's irrelevant.

I agree, but it means that China and the East will have political leverage over the United States in the future, just as the United States had the same political leverage over the British during the Suez crisis where they basically threatend to collapse our currency overnight by dumping it on world markets.


I thought the EU was the new world superpower :S well it probably will be if it isn't.

The European Union couldn't run a sweetshop, not to mention the fact the vast majority of 'its people' don't wish for a European Union.


You've misunderstood how the EU can become a super power. Look at the economic and military power the EU has. So yes, the EU is/will become a super power.

The European Union has little military power, infact barely any as of yet (and hopefully that will stay the same). The European Union has one major flaw, its not wanted. The time will come (and yes it will) when the EU will simply fall apart, it just does not work.


China scares me as a country.

Serious question though, what if Russia turned round and declared war on the EU... does it have any powers to force any individual member states to use their armed forces to fight? Also, if that happened and say the UK was busy fighting Russia on behalf of the EU, then China came along and declared war on the UK specifically, what would happen then?! :P

NATO would take control then, conventional wars would not take place anyway in the modern world thanks to nuclear weapons. The nuclear armed states of NATO (United Kingdom, France, United States) would have a nuclear standoff with any Russian aggression. If the PROC declared war on the United Kingdom on its own, NATO would automatically mean that China has declared war on all of NATO (United States and so forth) but it wouldn't matter anyway, the United Kingdom has about 200 nuclear weapons and China is predicted to be around that number so it would be MAD (Mutually Assured Destruction) for both sides. That is why nuclear weapons are so important for us to keep as a nation.


Well, the first mistake is that America does not have an Empire but I do understand what you mean (also, the British Empire has not fallen to crap, there are many countries still under control of the british monarchy/empire but yes, it has gone down hill but under it's own will [giving countries their own independence] unlike countries such as Russia or Germany after the cold war and WW1&2)

The United States is technically an Empire and so is the United Kingdom to this day, both have colonies still which are under the control of the United Kingdom/States. Of course the British Empire resembles nothing like its former span.


Next. China does have a huge population and a large amount of money, military, etc but they will implode on their self economically and because they just cant support their population (as predicted by proffesors and others inc. myself)

I see this point and do hope so, this issue will be the most interesting thing that will probably happen in our lifetimes (politically). The key issue is, can China grow enough to the stage where its own people become consumers - if so, then the rise of China is going to happen. We are already seeing signs of this, and the Chinese government are not taking any risks to destroy this.


Also, I know for a fact that America is the most hated country in the world so I dont believe many people share your viewpoint on the whole 'Keep America in Power" as they Phunk Up majorly and regularly. That guy (just remembered his name, nostradamus or something) predicted that Russia will become a super power again but I cant really see that happening. I think Indonesia will be MASSIVE because they've got a large population and a up and coming military (much better than China will be, I can promise you, and Im kinda scared coz Australia will be one of the first places they invade). But I think a Scandanavian country has a big chance of becoming a superpower simply becuase they are rich, quite large and have great allies.

Indonesia will become a Great Power, however the chances of it becoming a superpower are very slim, the same with Scandanavia. They both lack the resources that China has the and money China has, along with the investment.

I hope China will not rise, but it is. The only hope I see is that the United States takes a sensible approach concerning the economy and that we are wrong on China becoming a super power, as people were wrong in the 1980s about Japan becoming a super power.

Black_Apalachi
30-01-2010, 06:28 AM
Oh I see, thanks :).

ChickenFaces
30-01-2010, 09:28 PM
Oh God, of course America is ending. Are you kidding me? I live in the United states, and personally I want to get out of here as soon as possible.
I mean, a country who exposes its security weaknesses to the world isn't safe or powerful, it's quite stupid, to be honest!
And we rush to Haiti to help them as soon as the earthquake even started, yet when Hurricaine Katrina hit New Orleans, we waited a week or so to get people out there to help!

America is going to die. Personally, I wish we were just a part of the U.K.

Technologic
30-01-2010, 09:35 PM
Oh God, of course America is ending. Are you kidding me? I live in the United states, and personally I want to get out of here as soon as possible.
I mean, a country who exposes its security weaknesses to the world isn't safe or powerful, it's quite stupid, to be honest!
And we rush to Haiti to help them as soon as the earthquake even started, yet when Hurricaine Katrina hit New Orleans, we waited a week or so to get people out there to help!

America is going to die. Personally, I wish we were just a part of the U.K.

You really don't...

Want to hide these adverts? Register an account for free!