Closing threads with VIP

[Richie]

Hey,
the whole idea has just got out of hand especially in spam, there has been announcements about people abusing it, yet people still do it.


The people who are going to go against me are those who either love power or those who are actually doing it.


Why do VIP members need to close threads?

[hah]

because its a feature that we get for having it, i dont think it should be remove

and i dont do it/care for power

but its a nice feature to have

[dirrty]

i thought you're allowed to close your own thread, but not allowed to re-open it once it's closed - which then is classed as abusing powers?

but yh i think it's fine as not that many people abuse the feature really.

[Jamesy]

Taken from garion's point here:


If you want to just close your thread, that's fine. Go for it! Your reasoning for it has nothing to do with me. Perhaps I didn't word that bit properly, I'll change it slightly in a sec. If lots of people are arguing in your thread then feel free to close it. HOWEVER you should not post something saying "CLOSING DUE TO ARGUMENTS / SWEARING / RULE BREAKING" or "CLOSING FOR A COOLING OFF PERIOD ;l" because this is acting as a Moderator and such behaviour is not allowed. The reason we're being strict on that is because it is interfering with Moderation and our ability to deal with the members causing trouble that lead to the closure of those threads. Members should be reporting posts, not taking matters into their own hands.

http://www.habboxforum.com/showpost.php?p=6332041&postcount=3

[Richie]

because its a feature that we get for having it, i dont think it should be remove

and i dont do it/care for power

but its a nice feature to have


Fair enough but my question is why do we need it? its for the mods and its just confusing, also its annoying when you have typed something for ages then you click submit and the thread has been closed for a stupid reason.

[Alkaz]

i thought you're allowed to close your own thread, but not allowed to re-open it once it's closed - which then is classed as abusing powers?
Yeah I think so, like when moderators close threads and then reopen them to try and prevent arguing, members doing that is abusing their powers.
I'm not sure what to say about it as you lot in the spam forum seem to have some plot out against each other.

[hah]

no just two members lol, and you're allowed to re-open it i think as long as you closed it and not a mod

[Richie]

ahh sure why don't you's just give us access to the forum cpanel to change our name or maybe give us perms to post in the announcements, you know we don't need the features but you might aswell chuck them in to seem like people are getting more to what they pay for.

[hah]

because if we ask a question and its answered and we wanna close it we can

[Sammeth.]

ahh sure why don't you's just give us access to the forum cpanel to change our name or maybe give us perms to post in the announcements, you know we don't need the features but you might aswell chuck them in to seem like people are getting more to what they pay for.

Yeah giving you access to the cpanel is almost like being able to open and close threads.

[Richie]

Yeah giving you access to the cpanel is almost like being able to open and close threads.

No I know its not like that but its as ******ed as it.

[xxMATTGxx]

No I know its not like that but its as ******ed as it.

VIPs have been able to close threads for quite sometime. There is no major issues apart from abusing it which Garion has mentioned in the other thread. :S

[Seatherny]

No I know its not like that but its as ******ed as it.

If you know its not the same then why use the same example :S Bit silly tbh.

Its like going "ant and an elephant are the same size". Then someone says its not but you say "No I know its not like that but its as ******ed as it." ...

[Sharon]

Nah I see Richies point it was a good example for the record but yeah it's really used but for the wrong reasons - oh I'ma close this thread now coz Richies being nasty innit. That's all it's used for

[Richie]

If you know its not the same then why use the same example :S Bit silly tbh.

Its like going "ant and an elephant are the same size". Then someone says its not but you say "No I know its not like that but its as ******ed as it." ...

They are the same as in the sense the both are ******ed to give out to VIP users. Its ok I get the point habbox forum staff never make mistakes.

[GommeInc]

How comes this issue has only just amounted to something? The only problem VIPs were faced with in days of old were when they had their own sub-forums, and could effectively move any thread to any forum :P

So the point of having this feature is to just close your thread if asking a question and it gets answered? Sounds reasonable, though I remember Professor-Alex closing his threads for cooling off periods (or maybe it was Immenseman?) and it seemed okay, provided it's done within reason it should be fine, no-one was particularly annoyed with the only example I can think of. It just gives moderators one less thing to worry about :P

[Hecktix]

My only issues with this is when VIPs use their ability to their advantage in an argument.

[Richie]

How comes this issue has only just amounted to something? The only problem VIPs were faced with in days of old were when they had their own sub-forums, and could effectively move any thread to any forum :P

So the point of having this feature is to just close your thread if asking a question and it gets answered? Sounds reasonable, though I remember Professor-Alex closing his threads for cooling off periods (or maybe it was Immenseman?) and it seemed okay, provided it's done within reason it should be fine, no-one was particularly annoyed. It just gives moderators one less thing to worry about :P


That's a fair point, but that would be just like me saying how come a thread has only just been submitted regarding this. I only brought it up because ive only seen people recently using / abusing it.



My only issues with this is when VIPs use their ability to their advantage in an argument.
precisely



It's just really irritating if you spent loads of time writting something and then someone goes and closes the thread for no apparent reason.

[GommeInc]

Does it follow the same scenario as Oli posted? Where people are closing and opening their threads to their advantage in arguments?

Hmmm, perhaps only allowing VIPs to close their threads would be a better idea? It will stop them self-moderating. The only issue then would be to tackle the whole closing for the sake of advantage issue.

[Titch]

Does it follow the same scenario as Oli posted? Where people are closing and opening their threads to their advantage in arguments?

Hmmm, perhaps only allowing VIPs to close their threads would be a better idea? It will stop them self-moderating. The only issue then would be to tackle the whole closing for the sake of advantage issue.

You are only aloud to close your threads atm, you are not aloud to re-open threads.

[GommeInc]

You are only aloud to close your threads atm, you are not aloud to re-open threads.
Oh, is that recent? The thread in the tech forums that kept closing for cooling off periods kept re-opening... Did whoever owned the thread have to PM a moderator?

If they're only doing it in spam, they're just fulfilling their spamming allowance :P It's only annoying in the proper forums :P

[Richie]

Does it follow the same scenario as Oli posted? Where people are closing and opening their threads to their advantage in arguments?

Hmmm, perhaps only allowing VIPs to close their threads would be a better idea? It will stop them self-moderating. The only issue then would be to tackle the whole closing for the sake of advantage issue.


Yeah that would be better than nothing been done at all, my problem is as i said above, if someone spends a long time typing something then as soon as they submit it the thread has been closed. Its irritating, I don't use the feature because I just think its stupid. With all respect I thought it was the moderating teams job to close threads when arguments occur?

[GommeInc]

Yeah that would be better than nothing been done at all, my problem is as i said above, if someone spends a long time typing something then as soon as they submit it the thread has been closed. Its irritating, I don't use the feature because I just think its stupid. With all respect I thought it was the moderating teams job to close threads when arguments occur?
That is true, it's one of those rules which probably needs tweaking. It would be difficult to enforce though :/ Have to see what Garion and Oli think, or whoever is in charge of the VIPs :P

[Black_Apalachi]

Fair enough but my question is why do we need it? its for the mods and its just confusing, also its annoying when you have typed something for ages then you click submit and the thread has been closed for a stupid reason.
I've been thinking about this since the recent discussion on the topic and was considering creating this Feedback thread myself. I totally agree with Richie's quote here, as well as Oli's below.

My only issues with this is when VIPs use their ability to their advantage in an argument.
As Matt says, it has been a nice extra for VIP members for some time and never caused much trouble before. But like everything else [most recent example: forum filter] there are always minorities that come and go who strive to push the boat out as far as possible. In this case we are seeing the feature abused more and more by VIPs to influence arguments or generally wind people up. Now and again I might see a thread closed by a VIP for genuinely innocent reasons but most of the time it is in fact for the reason Oli mentioned and quite frankly it's bloody irritating - in my opinion it is equal to 'posting to cause arguments'. So even though it's a very long-standing feature, the fact is that it doesn't fit in with the current environment which consists of people (albeit a minority) constantly abusing privileges to stretch things as far as possible.

My overall point is that the feature really isn't needed and I doubt it would be missed.

[Hecktix]

Dunno if you've seen but today we changed the infraction "Reputation Rule Breaking" to "Features Violation".

We thought we could incorporate this in to work with those abusing their VIP features, so if someone is closing or opening threads to work to their advantage within an argument it can be dealt with on this line (whether it be a PM or a warning/infraction).

In regards to VIPs opening their threads, we don't actually say anywhere that it is okay for VIPs to open their threads. The FAQ clearly states that the VIP feature is to be able to close your own threads.

See this part of Garion's announcement:



In addition to this, VIPs are reminded that the feature they are given is the ability to close threads. In giving you this ability, vBulletin requires that you also have the ability to open threads, however, you should not be doing this. The feature is to close threads only. If you reopen closed threads, it will be considered abuse of VIP features and could result in that feature being removed.If people do open/close their own threads to act as a moderator they would be dealt with by a Super Moderator, again under the "Features Violation" umbrella :)

Edit: Just to add, we can't physically stop people opening threads as the ACP setting is "Can close/open own threads"

[Seatherny]

I dont understand why the thread Garion posted isnt in the FAQ/Forum Rules? :S
Lately I have seen rules being made and announced but not actually being updated in the FAQ?

If I am wrong, please let me know, but I cant find the closing threads rule in the FAQ/Forum Rules.

Another example of this is the posting warez links rule. Not in FAQ/Forum Rules.

This isn't good for new members as they obviously wouldn't have read the announcements.

[hah]

ill miss it and i dont see why you should get rid of it because of two users lol

[Seatherny]

ill miss it and i dont see why you should get rid of it because of two users lol

Yeah I agree. I like having the feature to close threads where the question has been answered.

[Blinger1]

Can we reopen threads if we have something genuine to add?

Like say for instance I ask "who sings this?" and then someone replies "madonna" (first name to my mind) and then you say "thanks. thread closed!" can you reopen it to say "oh, i can't find anything about madonna singing this, anyone else know?"

:S?

[Seatherny]

Can we reopen threads if we have something genuine to add?

Like say for instance I ask "who sings this?" and then someone replies "madonna" (first name to my mind) and then you say "thanks. thread closed!" can you reopen it to say "oh, i can't find anything about madonna singing this, anyone else know?"

:S?

I guess that might be allowed but it would have to go through Management.

I asked Garion a similar question via PM and this was the reply:


My question was why would you ever need to? The basic answer is no. However if you were able to present me with a valid reason as to why you would need to reopen a thread, then I might allow it.

I am not posting anything private, just a PM in relation to the forum rules.

[Blinger1]

I guess that might be allowed but it would have to go through Management.

So you have to ask a mod/admin to reopen a thread which could take a while to get a reply instead of just being able to open it and get a reply within five minutes..

[Seatherny]

Yeah thats what I dont understand. If I am allowed to close my thread, I should be allowed to open it if its doing no harm :S

[Richie]

ill miss it and i dont see why you should get rid of it because of two users lol


2 users? you can't be referring to me as I wasn't one to close any threads. I don't care if it stays I'm just saying its pointless imo and its just going to make things messy, non hxf staff closing threads.


Could someone explain to me what it's for?

[Blinger1]

read two or three posts above..?



Yeah I agree. I like having the feature to close threads where the question has been answered.

[Seatherny]

2 users? you can't be referring to me as I wasn't one to close any threads. I don't care if it stays I'm just saying its pointless imo and its just going to make things messy, non hxf staff closing threads.


Could someone explain to me what it's for?

But then its like saying:

Seeing who repped you is pointless as you dont really need it. Its also more likely to make you traget a user if they -rep you.

Changing your name is useless as it can be confusing as it just shouldnt be allowed.

Having larger signature images shouldnt be allowed as its not good for those with slower internet and it makes the page longer.

Having customer HTML usertitles shouldnt be allowed as some are ugly and long. They arent needed.

[Richie]

read two or three posts above..?

Yeah I understand what its for but why do we need it?

and I'm not asking for people to compare it to other features.

[Seatherny]

Yeah I understand what its for but why do we need it?

and I'm not asking for people to compare it to other features.

You are contradicting yourself :P
Your last post said:


Could someone explain to me what it's for?

And I compared it to other features as you asked "why do we need it". We don't need any of those features but we get it as some of them makes VIP different from Donor.

[Blinger1]

Yeah I understand what its for but why do we need it?
So no more pointless posts are made. When the question is answered you can close the thread since it isn't needed anymore.

[Richie]

You are contradicting yourself :P
Your last post said:



And I compared it to other features as you asked "why do we need it". We don't need any of those features but we get it as some of them makes VIP different from Donor.

Contradicting myself and making a typo are two different things.


So no more pointless posts are made. When the question is answered you can close the thread since it isn't needed anymore.

But I thought it was the moderators jobs to send a pm / warn pointless posts?

[Blinger1]

But I thought it was the moderators jobs to send a pm / warn pointless posts?
It is. You aren't telling people not to pointless post at all...

[GommeInc]

So you have to ask a mod/admin to reopen a thread which could take a while to get a reply instead of just being able to open it and get a reply within five minutes..
That does seem like a downside :/ Surely it would be better to just allow it, and if it breaks any sort of rule harsh punishments should be taken into consideration? Afterall, alot of people will probably do it harmlessly, rather than do it for the sake of malicious purposes :)

[Richie]

Can't the feature be disabled in parts of the forum? like there is no need for it in spam

[Blinger1]

Can't the feature be disabled in parts of the forum? like there is no need for it in spam
I needed it. (http://www.habboxforum.com/showthread.php?t=626400)

[Seatherny]

Contradicting myself and making a typo are two different things.



But I thought it was the moderators jobs to send a pm / warn pointless posts?

Wheres the typo though? It was a clear contradiction :S.

[Hecktix]

I see the point about things missing from the rules, such as the Warez things.

In terms of the VIP rules we don't have these in the FAQ they are in the VIP forums, I'll get this added to those rules and on top of that by the way, all VIPs (including people who get VIP in the future) are forced to read that thread Garion made.

[Black_Apalachi]

... We thought we could incorporate this in to work with those abusing their VIP features, so if someone is closing or opening threads to work to their advantage within an argument it can be dealt with on this line (whether it be a PM or a warning/infraction). ...

Will this not be difficult to enforce though? The usual example I see of this is people posting their penny's worth then closing the thread before anyone else has chance to get a word in. There's not really any way you can prove the intent behind the closure of the thread because they could easily claim they were simply bored of the thread and no longer had any interest in what anybody had to say...


ill miss it and i dont see why you should get rid of it because of two users lol

I agree but as far as I can tell, the whole issue regarding the filter was because of just one or two users as well.


Yeah I agree. I like having the feature to close threads where the question has been answered.

Why though? It makes no real difference and if the feature didn't exist, I'm sure the rule would be reintroduced whereby one can send a request to a moderator to close a particular thread for them.

The thread closure feature honestly seems really gimmicky - as if it was just a feature added onto the VIP package for the sake of it back in the day just to give it an extra selling point. Obviously there's no longer any purchase involved with VIP so there's no need for unnecessary gimmicks like this to make it look better.

[Hecktix]

It's usually pretty obvious as to why people close their threads and at the end of the day Forum or General Management will always have the final say :)

[Black_Apalachi]

Well the example I suggested could be a genuine reason or it could be a sly move but it would be pretty much impossible to read the mind of the person to decide which it was. Fair enough though I suppose :P

[Seatherny]

Obviously there's no longer any purchase involved with VIP so there's no need for unnecessary gimmicks like this to make it look better.

Christmas VIP is purchased :)


Well the example I suggested could be a genuine reason or it could be a sly move but it would be pretty much impossible to read the mind of the person to decide which it was. Fair enough though I suppose :P

I rarely see people closing the thread for their advantage, so there's no point removing the rule because of a few people.

I get annoyed when I write a big reply to some threads and find its closed when I press reply, cant do anything about it. Just move on.

[Titch]

So you want to get rid / ruin a feature that has been with VIP members for over 5 years just becuase you cant reply to the thread becuase it was closed. The only reason i bother with VIP is for this feature, otherwise i wud just go normal user with stars. Dont ruin something that isnt broken :S All what needs to be done is saying you cant re-open them like it was, you cant start telling people that they can only close certain type of threads, otherwise theres no point in the feature and its ruins. Its been fine for 5 years? why change it...

[Catzsy]

I dont understand why the thread Garion posted isnt in the FAQ/Forum Rules? :S
Lately I have seen rules being made and announced but not actually being updated in the FAQ?

If I am wrong, please let me know, but I cant find the closing threads rule in the FAQ/Forum Rules.

Another example of this is the posting warez links rule. Not in FAQ/Forum Rules.

This isn't good for new members as they obviously wouldn't have read the announcements.


There is a good reason for this because the features allowed for VIP have been there for years:

Heres a short list of the features you gain:

- Access to exclusive VIP Forum
- A coloured name of your choice from the selection
- A custom user title
- To be able to change your forum user name
- An avatar of 150 pixels x 150 pixels
- A signature of 700 pixels wide x 300 pixels high
- A profile picture of 250 pixels wide x 250 pixels high
- A PM storage of 600
- Exclusive access to the arcade
- See who gave you reputation
- Option to make yourself invisible
- Be able to close your own threads
- Post your birthday/events on the Habbox Calendar
- The ability to customise your own profile

VIP's have always had the privilege of closing their own threads but nothing else.

A practice started to spring up in the recent past where some VIPs basically decided to give themselves extra features and started to act like moderators i.e. closing threads with reaons such as a cooling off period and then re-opening. This could be done more than one time in the same thread. Also the practice was being used to frustrate and upset/bully other members and was VIP feature abuse. Action had to be taken because then other VIPs quite innocently started to do it.

Management have been quite lenient about this by just issuing a notice because in nvr's days when VIPs moved posts to announcements they were permanently banned for VIP feature abuse..

[Seatherny]

There is a good reason for this because the features allowed for VIP have been there for years:

Heres a short list of the features you gain:

- Access to exclusive VIP Forum
- A coloured name of your choice from the selection
- A custom user title
- To be able to change your forum user name
- An avatar of 150 pixels x 150 pixels
- A signature of 700 pixels wide x 300 pixels high
- A profile picture of 250 pixels wide x 250 pixels high
- A PM storage of 600
- Exclusive access to the arcade
- See who gave you reputation
- Option to make yourself invisible
- Be able to close your own threads
- Post your birthday/events on the Habbox Calendar
- The ability to customise your own profile

VIP's have always had the privilege of closing their own threads but nothing else.

A practice started to spring up in the recent past where some VIPs basically decided to give themselves extra features and started to act like moderators i.e. closing threads with reaons such as a cooling off period and then re-opening. This could be done more than one time in the same thread. Also the practice was being used to frustrate and upset/bully other members and was VIP feature abuse. Action had to be taken because then other VIPs quite innocently started to do it.

Management have been quite lenient about this by just issuing a notice because in nvr's days when VIPs moved posts to announcements they were permanently banned for VIP feature abuse..

Still a good idea to clear it up for new members :) and there's nothing about warez so ;).

[Catzsy]

Still a good idea to clear it up for new members :) and there's nothing about warez so ;).

The FAQ is for all members and new members in particular to read. Surely that is a sensible thing to do when joining a forum and in any event new members wouldn't be VIP:P As to the warez matter, I can't see the VIP rules as I am not VIP if there are still VIP forums :S

If so there used to be VIP Rules there. If there isn't anymore I would say you have a point. =]

[GommeInc]

I see the point about things missing from the rules, such as the Warez things.

In terms of the VIP rules we don't have these in the FAQ they are in the VIP forums, I'll get this added to those rules and on top of that by the way, all VIPs (including people who get VIP in the future) are forced to read that thread Garion made.
It's one of those things you wish the forum could do by itself, where you could type in hidden rules which reveal themselves when you join particular groups :P

[Seatherny]

The FAQ is for all members and new members in particular to read. Surely that is a sensible thing to do when joining a forum and in any event new members wouldn't be VIP:P As to the warez matter, I can't see the VIP rules as I am not VIP if there are still VIP forums :S

If so there used to be VIP Rules there. If there isn't anymore I would say you have a point. =]

It is, but I meant adding the thing Garion posted to the rules will avoid any confusion for new members. Its only helping them and doing no harm.

The warez has nothing to do with VIP :S.

[GommeInc]

Still a good idea to clear it up for new members :) and there's nothing about warez so ;).
That's quite an interesting point... There's nothing in the rules mentioning "Do not break the law" or any mention of illegal activities. The only mention of anything "illegal" is to do with Habbo it seems.

The rules are being worked on anyway. Hopefully they're being cut down to size (as proposed) and not being so boring and ghastly to read. Something Garion and Oli are working on last time I checked ;)

[Catzsy]

It's one of those things you wish the forum could do by itself, where you could type in hidden rules which reveal themselves when you join particular groups :P

Oh Gomme - we wish but I am sure you know the FAQ by heart - you contibuted to most of it! Having said that, maybe a pm could go out to new VIPs if it could be done automatically. I don't know though if it would be possible as if done manually it could be a bit of an onerous task. @ Gupta - sorry I mistook that point and yes I would agree it would be beneficial. The clearer the rules are the better.

[Seatherny]

Oh Gomme - we wish but I am sure you know the FAQ by heart - you contibuted to most of it! Having said that, maybe a pm could go out to new VIPs if it could be done automatically. I don't know though if it would be possible as if done manually it could be a bit of an onerous task. @ Gupta - sorry I mistook that point and yes I would agree it would be beneficial. The clearer the rules are the better.

Theres an option to mass email certain usergroups - so they can email. I think there is also an option to PM certain usergroups (but I cant remember if this was built in or if it was a modification).

[GommeInc]

Oh Gomme - we wish but I am sure you know the FAQ by heart - you contibuted to most of it! Having said that, maybe a pm could go out to new VIPs if it could be done automatically. I don't know though if it would be possible as if done manually it could be a bit of an onerous task. @ Gupta - sorry I mistook that point and yes I would agree it would be beneficial. The clearer the rules are the better.
Have I? :P The latest course of action for me lately is having the rules cut in half. I sent Oli and Garion a PM which turned 18 rules into 4 rules with sub-sections, of course giving way to some other rules if needed. The rules definitely need changing, they're either too specific where they over-describe and add examples or suggest moderators are brainless. The rules do not state anywhere that a moderator's opinion on a situation is involved!

Although, if you cut the rules down alot, maybe you could have the VIP rules freely available? Anyone can be a VIP/Donator afterall.

Pah, you've got me ranting :P

PS. Glazed over what you said... Doesn't the forum email members when they have user-account changes, or am I mistaking that for the PM an editor sends to the account? :P

[hah]

So you want to get rid / ruin a feature that has been with VIP members for over 5 years just becuase you cant reply to the thread becuase it was closed. The only reason i bother with VIP is for this feature, otherwise i wud just go normal user with stars. Dont ruin something that isnt broken :S All what needs to be done is saying you cant re-open them like it was, you cant start telling people that they can only close certain type of threads, otherwise theres no point in the feature and its ruins. Its been fine for 5 years? why change it...

there was nothing wrong with the filtered but you complained and got it changed :S

[Titch]

there was nothing wrong with the filtered but you complained and got it changed :S

I made a thread asking for clarification on it, managemnet decided to change it, not me.

[hah]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DWJECLN4S00


no u complain lol

listen to that song k

Edited by Jamesy (Forum Super Moderator): Please do not post to cause arguments.

[Titch]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DWJECLN4S00


no u complain lol

listen to that song k

I asked for clarification on the rules, i didnt post a thread saying "RE-FILTER NAUGHTY WORDS PLEASE". I posted asking why some words were filtered and others not.

[GommeInc]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DWJECLN4S00


no u complain lol

listen to that song k

Edited by Jamesy (Forum Super Moderator): Please do not post to cause arguments.
He was indeed asking for clarification :)


Okay im a bit confused by this, why are we not aloud to say "***" ? we are aloud to say "****" which can be used in a bad way yet "***" which cant be, and is just a way of describing yourself as lazy is. Shorly thats not right?

I dont understand why u cant say something that cannot be used in a insulting or bad way, yet you can use another one which can?

Opinions?

If he was complaining, he would of been slagging off the change, but as far as this goes, he was attempting to use a perfectly harmless comment with reference to other unfiltered abbreviations, but he got told off for it because there was no information present about whether or not it is acceptable (moderators took action because it was down to opinion on whether or not it was acceptable, so they opted for not as it's a safer option). He was well within his rights asking for feedback on the matter, which is what this forum is for afterall :)

The re-filter just magically happened afterwards :P

[Hecktix]

Hmm, looks to have gone off topic to me.

Initial issue has been dealt with anyway.

Closed