Controversial Dutch MP Geert Wilders arrives in Britain amid protests

[-:Undertaker:-]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1255658/Geert-Wilders-arrives-Britain-major-gains-Dutch-polls.html


Dutch far-right politician Geert Wilders accused Islam of being 'incompatible' with democracy today after arriving in London to show his anti-Islamic film Fitna at the House of Lords. The 46-year-old Freedom Party leader's visit to Britain came after his far-right party scored major gains in Dutch elections. He is now on course to win the most Parliamentary seats in the country's June 9 election. If so, it would be impossible for the current coalition government to rule without forging a strong coalition with him. He could even land the title of prime minister, after a new poll showed that he was fifth on the list of Dutch voters' preferred candidates.
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2010/03/05/article-1255658-0895FE86000005DC-38_468x286.jpg

Geert Wilders and UKIP Leader Lord Pearson



He said: 'Islamism and democracy are incompatible. 'The more Islamism we have, the more freedom we will lose and this is something worth fighting for'. Mr Wilders called for an end to immigration to Europe from Islamic countries but said Muslims who agreed to obey the law of the land would be welcome to stay. He said: 'To Muslims who do stay, I would say "Follow our laws and you are welcome to stay".' He also said that, if elected Dutch Prime Minister, he would seek to introduce a 'first amendment' guaranteeing freedom of speech. He said: 'The right of freedom of speech is especially to listen to someone who is saying something you don't want to hear.


UK Independence Party (UKIP) leader Lord Pearson, who has invited Mr Wilders to screen his movie, said he was putting on the event to help the controversial Dutchman ‘exercise his freedom of speech in the Mother of Parliaments’. The peer has condemned radical Islam as a ‘world domination movement’ and described Mr Wilders as a ‘friend’. He has also denied accusations that his own party was ‘far-right’ or ‘radical’, after it called for face coverings - such as the veil worn by some Muslim women - to be banned. ‘Is it radical to wish to protect British society and our Judeo-Christian culture from the growing influence of radical Islam?’ he asked last month.
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2010/03/05/article-1255658-06D8F8D3000005DC-381_468x313.jpg

Islam demonstrators were met with UAF and EDL protestors



Thats freedom of speech at work and the whole point of democracy, how dare this government attempt to ban this man coming to this country and airing his views (which they did until the ban was lifted). I have to say, he speaks an awful lot of sense and especially when he says; "We are going to take the Netherlands back from the leftist elite that coddles criminals and supports Islamification." - The rent-a-mob UAF & the Labour Party accuse him of being a fascist yet they are the ones who want to stop him from speaking here, so who are the real fascists?

Thoughts?

[Tash.]

It will be of no surprise to you that I don't agree with him being allowed to air those views. If those are his opinions, fine, but there is no need to publically voice them and risk stirring up a huge mess for no apparent reason.

Doesn't shock me that you agree though, nor that he has links to UKIPs leader.

[-:Undertaker:-]

It will be of no surprise to you that I don't agree with him being allowed to air those views. If those are his opinions, fine, but there is no need to publically voice them and risk stirring up a huge mess for no apparent reason.

Doesn't shock me that you agree though, nor that he has links to UKIPs leader.

It doesnt shock me that you think that people with anti-mass immigration opinions should be banned from airing their views. So much for democracy and the whole concept of freedom and you should really ask yourself who are the real fascists;- the UAF, Labour Party and yourself want free speech banned yet Geert Wilders does not. I have read about him as much as possible and as far as I see theres no reason for him being controversial anyway. He accepts the notion of immigration but states that if you are not to intergrate into a country then you should not be there. A concept most would agree with; our rules, you abide by them just as if I moved to Saudi Arabia I would have to abide via by their way of life.

The fact is that radical islam is incompatible with western democracy because of its views on homosexuality, womens rights and the general notion of majority rule (democracy). It is not Geert Wilders who is stirring up trouble, yet again it is the UAF who label anything remotely anti-immigration as racist and wrong and who come out in force, hence why the EDL and Islamic extremists (seen in the picture) also turn out. These islamic extremists protesting is rather ironic because without free speech and if they did live in an Islamic country they wouldnt be allowed to protest like they are in that shot.

If you go on ignoring the problems then you will get riots like France had and exactly like what Enoch Powell predicted will come true.

[Tash.]

It doesnt shock me that you think that people with anti-mass immigration opinions should be banned from airing their views. So much for democracy and the whole concept of freedom and you should really ask yourself who are the real fascists;- the UAF, Labour Party and yourself want free speech banned yet Geert Wilders does not. I have read about him as much as possible and as far as I see theres no reason for him being controversial anyway. He accepts the notion of immigration but states that if you are not to intergrate into a country then you should not be there. A concept most would agree with; our rules, you abide by them just as if I moved to Saudi Arabia I would have to abide via by their way of life.

The fact is that radical islam is incompatible with western democracy because of its views on homosexuality, womens rights and the general notion of majority rule (democracy). It is not Geert Wilders who is stirring up trouble, yet again it is the UAF who label anything remotely anti-immigration as racist and wrong and who come out in force, hence why the EDL and Islamic extremists (seen in the picture) also turn out. These islamic extremists protesting is rather ironic because without free speech and if they did live in an Islamic country they wouldnt be allowed to protest like they are in that shot.

If you go on ignoring the problems then you will get riots like France had and exactly like what Enoch Powell predicted will come true.

The problem with this thread is the source of information is the daily mail, which is really a laughable rag of a paper and I do not respect a thing it writes. Of course it writes in favour of him. If you were to actually read more widely then you'd know that he may well say the right things but they are not representative of his real views. I don't agree with radical muslims anymore than you do, but these kinds of people only succeed in stirring up bad relations between muslims who do wish to integrate in to this country. It's not acceptable and in my opinion he should not be allowed to air views which could cause problems.

I've said it before, i'll say it again. I'm all for free speech but to me there are certain things which go beyond being free speech and actually hurt other people and cause tensions. His views, for me, fit that category.

[GommeInc]

The Netherlands aren't that bad, are they? The current Prime Minister gets along well with Queen Beatrix, so it would be interesting to see how this guy fits in with the Dutch Royal Family. It's shocking that the votes are going from left to right too, the country seemed to be happy the way they were, last time I checked at least :/

Most of what he said is fine though, extreme Islamism has no place in democracy, and he seems to be pro-Islam in the non-extremist sense of the word, because the majority of decent muslims do abide by our rules, it's qhy they come here because our rules are alot more sensible than what they have in Pakistan, Iraq etc etc, it's just a shame the extreme minority take centre stage.

I don't see the problem with the video though :/

[Bun]

lmao at UKIP leader condemning Islam as a world domination movement, Islam is all about peace! one minute you got naughty Nige insulting Belgium next minute you got your leader insulting Islam, but nah UKIP ain't far-right :).

[-:Undertaker:-]

The problem with this thread is the source of information is the daily mail, which is really a laughable rag of a paper and I do not respect a thing it writes. Of course it writes in favour of him. If you were to actually read more widely then you'd know that he may well say the right things but they are not representative of his real views. I don't agree with radical muslims anymore than you do, but these kinds of people only succeed in stirring up bad relations between muslims who do wish to integrate in to this country. It's not acceptable and in my opinion he should not be allowed to air views which could cause problems.

I've said it before, i'll say it again. I'm all for free speech but to me there are certain things which go beyond being free speech and actually hurt other people and cause tensions. His views, for me, fit that category.

How about you actually find some evidence then on Mr Wilders rather than presuming because the Guardian, the Labour Party and the UAF do not like him? - nothing he says there actually offends anyone other than radical extremists (as shown by the picture) so why on earth should he and others be prevented from airing their view because some islamic extremists dont like it and hate the notion of freedom. The muslims who do want to intergrate into this country would support & understand Wilders because most of them will have a first-hand view on radical Islam;- and the same for the ones wishing to intergrate properly into the Netherlands because as he says himself; they are welcome to. If they wish to live in a democratic and free country (as many must hence why wanting to intergrate) then they have obviously seen what parts of Islam cannot work in the western world and henceforth thats the whole reason why they dont practise those beliefs and want to intergrate.


The Netherlands aren't that bad, are they? The current Prime Minister gets along well with Queen Beatrix, so it would be interesting to see how this guy fits in with the Dutch Royal Family. It's shocking that the votes are going from left to right too, the country seemed to be happy the way they were, last time I checked at least :/

Most of what he said is fine though, extreme Islamism has no place in democracy, and he seems to be pro-Islam in the non-extremist sense of the word, because the majority of decent muslims do abide by our rules, it's qhy they come here because our rules are alot more sensible than what they have in Pakistan, Iraq etc etc, it's just a shame the extreme minority take centre stage.

I don't see the problem with the video though :/

Thank you Ryan, some common sense there. The hype made over him attempts to create him into some Islam-basher when hes simply not.


lmao at UKIP leader condemning Islam as a world domination movement, Islam is all about peace! one minute you got naughty Nige insulting Belgium next minute you got your leader insulting Islam, but nah UKIP ain't far-right :).

Extreme Islam is not compatible with western values and democracy because of its views on homosexuality, womens rights and its disagreement over the notion of majority rule - agree with this fact or disagree?

As for UKIP, yes they are to the right. They are liberal in their methods (the referendum notion & the concept of real democracy) but right-wing in their beliefs; they believe that the majority should rule and thats afterall what democracy is. The whole reason why we never get asked in this country on our views in referendums is because this country is right-wing, especially England. While Scotland and Wales are to the left England is to the right of politics. I dont see why your views on allowing Islamic extremism should be put on the British people. Most people want immigration, its good if managed properly. However the more you allow extremists and people who simply do not wish to adopt western values and the way of life into this country then the more people will become totally against immigration and once you are in a situation like that, the predictions of Enoch Powell become true.

[Catzsy]

I see no problem with him being allowed into the country to show his film. The thing that worries me with him is that he says 'There are many moderate Muslims, but there is no such thing as a moderate Islam'.
This seems to be a contradictory statement if ever I heard one. Far too right wing for me but no reason for him not to entitled to his opinon.
http://www.geertwilders.nl/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1662&Itemid=1

[Tash.]

How about you actually find some evidence then on Mr Wilders rather than presuming because the Guardian, the Labour Party and the UAF do not like him? - nothing he says there actually offends anyone other than radical extremists (as shown by the picture) so why on earth should he and others be prevented from airing their view because some islamic extremists dont like it and hate the notion of freedom. The muslims who do want to intergrate into this country would support & understand Wilders because most of them will have a first-hand view on radical Islam;- and the same for the ones wishing to intergrate properly into the Netherlands because as he says himself; they are welcome to. If they wish to live in a democratic and free country (as many must hence why wanting to intergrate) then they have obviously seen what parts of Islam cannot work in the western world and henceforth thats the whole reason why they dont practise those beliefs and want to intergrate.


Extreme Islam is not compatible with western values and democracy because of its views on homosexuality, womens rights and its disagreement over the notion of majority rule - agree with this fact or disagree?

As for UKIP, yes they are to the right. They are liberal in their methods (the referendum notion & the concept of real democracy) but right-wing in their beliefs; they believe that the majority should rule and thats afterall what democracy is. The whole reason why we never get asked in this country on our views in referendums is because this country is right-wing, especially England. While Scotland and Wales are to the left England is to the right of politics. I dont see why your views on allowing Islamic extremism should be put on the British people. Most people want immigration, its good if managed properly. However the more you allow extremists and people who simply do not wish to adopt western values and the way of life into this country then the more people will become totally against immigration and once you are in a situation like that, the predictions of Enoch Powell become true.


I see no problem with him being allowed into the country to show his film. The thing that worries me with him is that he says 'There are many moderate Muslims, but there is no such thing as a moderate Islam'.
This seems to be a contradictory statement if ever I heard one. Far too right wing for me but no reason for him not to entitled to his opinon.
http://www.geertwilders.nl/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1662&Itemid=1

Right, I'm not sure where you're getting this notion that I base my opinions on the Guardian and the labour party, here we go again with the presumptions on my views. It's beginning to irritate me. My opinion on Geert Wilders is formed from many sources and no matter what you say, seen as you're all for people having their opinions, I do not like him. I believe that he is contradictory (shown by Catszy's post below) and as I said in my original post, he may say he's ok with islam on the whole but that does not mean he actually is.

[-:Undertaker:-]

Right, I'm not sure where you're getting this notion that I base my opinions on the Guardian and the labour party, here we go again with the presumptions on my views. It's beginning to irritate me. My opinion on Geert Wilders is formed from many sources and no matter what you say, seen as you're all for people having their opinions, I do not like him. I believe that he is contradictory (shown by Catszy's post below) and as I said in my original post, he may say he's ok with islam on the whole but that does not mean he actually is.

You do base your opinions on what the leftist elite say hence why you are having such a go at the Daily Mail but if I posted the Guardian I doubt very much you would have an issue with it - you have also said in the past (although it took you a great time to say it) that you support the Labour Party and you support it on nearly every issue from what I see. But thats not the issue, so papers and parties aside I will ask again; provide some evidence if you are not happy with the Daily Mail source and explain why Geert Wilders should be prevented from airing his non-racist, non-fascist views. If you cant justify your views then how can you be expected to be taken seriously when you call for him to be banned from speaking, oh wait you have that covered 'I do not like him' well i'm sorry but thats not a reason for banning somebody from airing their point of view. As for Islam, hes made it pretty clear what his line is and you can see it more clearly here; http://playpolitical.typepad.com/rest_of_the_world/2010/03/geert-wilders-tells-newsnight-that-europe-has-enough-islam.html

Now tell me why that view should be banned.


I see no problem with him being allowed into the country to show his film. The thing that worries me with him is that he says 'There are many moderate Muslims, but there is no such thing as a moderate Islam'.
This seems to be a contradictory statement if ever I heard one. Far too right wing for me but no reason for him not to entitled to his opinon.What he means by that is that the religion itself is not moderate, but many choose to follow it moderately so in other words they do not follow it to the book. These are the muslims that Geert, and most people would welcome to the Netherlands or the United Kingdom because they do not hold the radical islamic views on homosexuality, womens rights and so forth. Its not contradictory at all.

[Catzsy]

In that case Dan so is the Bible and therefore Christianity. He doesn't really need to say it - just to say he welcomes moderate muslims because just as Christians do they obviously follow their religion with a modicum of common sense.
As it stands he probably offends all that do follow Islam which presumably he has not set out to do.

[ifuseekamy]

He's very liberal as I understand, being for issues such as euthanasia, abortion, gay marriage, soft drugs and prostitution. So to call him far-right, at least socially, is a bit of a stretch lol. I think the way he homogenises Muslims is unfair though.

lmao at UKIP leader condemning Islam as a world domination movement, Islam is all about peace! one minute you got naughty Nige insulting Belgium next minute you got your leader insulting Islam, but nah UKIP ain't far-right :).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=det7TUsLy8U so peaceful they incite death against a man for criticising their views.

[Catzsy]

He's very liberal as I understand, being for issues such as euthanasia, abortion, gay marriage, soft drugs and prostitution. So to call him far-right, at least socially, is a bit of a stretch lol. I think the way he homogenises Muslims is unfair though.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=det7TUsLy8U so peaceful they incite death against a man for criticising their views.

The moderate muslims do not recognise that the fanatics have anything to do with Islam . They use it just as an excuse for hatred.

[-:Undertaker:-]

In that case Dan so is the Bible and therefore Christianity. He doesn't really need to say it - just to say he welcomes moderate muslims because just as Christians do they obviously follow their religion with a modicum of common sense.
As it stands he probably offends all that do follow Islam which presumably he has not set out to do.

The fact is that the majority of Christians do not follow the Bible to the hilt, and as far as I know the Bible does not shout the aim of conquering about like Islam apparently does. A muslim who follows Islam but not the radical parts (as he has said, they are very welcome) what have they got to be offended by?


The moderate muslims do not recognise that the fanatics have anything to do with Islam . They use it just as an excuse for hatred.

The fanatics do have links with Islam as they follow it to the book. It would be like me saying that Nazism does not have any bad/evil within it and that its only evil people using it as an excuse to kill people. The fact is that Islam is not compatible with western democracy, and more to the point; neither is true Christianity either. Europe and the western world threw the Church off many hundreds of years ago, and hence that is why we now have freedom and democracy whereas the Middle East is still stuck in the dark ages with its strict following of Islam.

[Catzsy]

The fact is that the majority of Christians do not follow the Bible to the hilt, and as far as I know the Bible does not shout the aim of conquering about like Islam apparently does. A muslim who follows Islam but not the radical parts (as he has said, they are very welcome) what have they got to be offended by?



The fanatics do have links with Islam as they follow it to the book. It would be like me saying that Nazism does not have any bad/evil within it and that its only evil people using it as an excuse to kill people. The fact is that Islam is not compatible with western democracy, and more to the point; neither is true Christianity either. Europe and the western world threw the Church off many hundreds of years ago, and hence that is why we now have freedom and democracy whereas the Middle East is still stuck in the dark ages with its strict following of Islam.

Well anybody sensible would see the difference about books that were written centuries ago and now. Please don't say the world hasn't changed that much. You have fanatic christians who kill and bomb abortion doctors but you don't see people condemning christianity for it. To slam a whole religion is bound to offend and if you can't see that then
then you cannot see it. Only a small minority use islam as an excuse for bombing and terrorism and as you have said many times the islamic countries who follow islam are fully entited to do so whether we agree with it or not.. You are entitled to your opinion as I am mine. =]