Apple vs Google - Getting Personal.

[marriott0.01]

Nothing sells papers (or ads) like turning a little corporate competition into something personal. Case in point, a New York Times piece from the weekend titled "Apple's Spat With Google Is Getting Personal," that opened with this rather ominous, one-sentence paragraph:
"It looked like the beginning of a beautiful friendship."
Cue the orchestra. The lengthy piece chronicling the relationship between the Silicon Valley titans was formed by two dozen interviews with industry watchers, investors, and current and former employees. It covers a timeline spread that began with Google and Apple working in harmony to prevent Microsoft's domination of online services and mobile devices, and ends with Apple's patent lawsuit against HTC that reeks of a proxy battle against Android and Google. According to the NYT then, the heart of the dispute is betrayal, or Jobs' belief that Schmidt (a former Apple board member) "picked his pocket" by developing cellphones that "physically, technologically and spiritually resembled the iPhone." Here's how one especially feisty encounter is described:
"At one particularly heated meeting in 2008 on Google's campus, Mr. Jobs angrily told Google executives that if they deployed a version of multitouch - the popular iPhone feature that allows users to control their devices with flicks of their fingers - he would sue. Two people briefed on the meeting described it as "fierce" and "heated.""
And that's just the beginning. Read the rest after the break.

The NYT also corroborated an earlier report from Wired detailing the verbal lashing Jobs' gave Google during an internal Apple town hall meeting. You remember, the tirade that had Jobs calling Google's 'Don't be evil' slogan "********." Yeah, that one.

Adding to the battling egos is, Tim Bray, the architect behind XML, who wrote a blog post yesterday announcing his new role as evangelist to software developers for Google's Android platform. He had this to say about competing with Apple:
"The iPhone vision of the mobile Internet's future omits controversy, sex, and freedom, but includes strict limits on who can know what and who can say what. It's a sterile Disney-fied walled garden surrounded by sharp-toothed lawyers. The people who create the apps serve at the landlord's pleasure and fear his anger. I hate it."
He then adds,
"Apple apparently thinks you can have the benefits of the Internet while at the same time controlling what programs can be run and what parts of the stack can be accessed and what developers can say to each other. I think they're wrong and see this job as a chance to help prove it."
The Jobs v. Schmidt meme was then picked up by analysts on CNBC yesterday with Jim Goldman being told by many sources that, "Steve Jobs simply hates Eric Schmidt right now." An anger undoubtedly intensified by Android's dramatic rise in maretshare in recent months. See the frenzied hysterics discussed in the video below.


http://plus.cnbc.com/rssvideosearch/action/player/id/1441569481/code/cnbcplayershare

http://www.engadget.com/2010/03/16/apple-vs-google-gets-personal-steve-jobs-simply-hates-eric-sc/

Who's side are you on Google or Apple?

[Firehorse]

I would be more sympathetic to apple but they always have their heads up their arses by trying to keep absolutely everything under their control and limit what you can do with their products too much.

[Markeh]

Google. they seem to believe in making things more.... open than Apple, tbh.

[AgnesIO]

Google.

Jobs is a ruddy fool.

[The Professor]

Google is evil and Apple are up themselves, i don't like either of them tbh. I prefer Google as a company more though because it is actually doing things for the greater good (standing up to china, mapping the UK with streetview, making android open etc) whereas you'd be lucky to get Apple to co-operate with an error message.

[Sunny.]

Google over apple.

Apples way to up their own arse

[marriott0.01]

Google is evil and Apple are up themselves, i don't like either of them tbh. I prefer Google as a company more though because it is actually doing things for the greater good (standing up to china, mapping the UK with streetview, making android open etc) whereas you'd be lucky to get Apple to co-operate with an error message.

But don't you have Google to thank for some of the Greatest Innovation of the 20th and 21st Century? They were the people to first bring the personal computer to the masses with the Apple Lisa and that was also the first computer to actually be COLOUR! God forbid could i use a computer these days if it was in black and white. They also brought multi-touch and a lot of other innovations, so shouldn't a company who have invested billions upon billions on research and development be allowed to protect people riding on their patents to get a quick buck?

I don't think any less of Google, I like Google don't get me wrong, but Apple are right on this case, Google shouldn't make money from a product that is using the innovation Apple created, much the same Apple shouldn't get away with using the technology Nokia had created. This is why I believe that as far as this case is concerned Apple is right and Google should just be quiet and either come to an agreement with Apple.

[Tomm]

Google. I benefit nothing from the existence of Apple whereas I gain significantly from the existence of Google.

[HotelUser]

Google.

Jobs is a ruddy fool.

Yeah. Someone rated one of the best CEOs in the world is a ruddy fool.

I deem this poll biased because there's a lot of "Microsoft fanboys" here :P

[marriott0.01]

Yeah. Someone rated one of the best CEOs in the world is a ruddy fool.

I deem this poll biased because there's a lot of "Microsoft fanboys" here :P

lols, and people who say Apple hasn't brought us anything, who owns an iPod here?

[Markeh]

Yeah. Someone rated one of the best CEOs in the world is a ruddy fool.

I deem this poll biased because there's a lot of "Microsoft fanboys" here :P

A lot of people on this forum own Macs or iPods.

Explain how they can be Microsoft fanboys.

[AgnesIO]

Yeah. Someone rated one of the best CEOs in the world is a ruddy fool.

I deem this poll biased because there's a lot of "Microsoft fanboys" here :P

Because his company sells things at ridiculous prices, with the only decent, quite original thing they have made being the iPod Touch.

[marriott0.01]

Because his company sells things at ridiculous prices, with the only decent, quite original thing they have made being the iPod Touch.

I've always believed in you pay for quality, and that's exactly what you get from Apple. You buy something from Apple, you'll see everything simply works to perfection, and you'll honestly take back that statement.

[Jordy]

I also use Google Mail and I think that is perfection. I think their search engine is perfection, I think many Google services are perfection. Best of all, they're free and actually do change my life for the better.

What always makes me laugh is how Google is so open that despite all this, they continue to develop things for the iPhone. You can thank them for the YouTube and Maps application on it. They also make iPhone services and other applications. I'm sure if Google dropped support for all these things, people would reconsider buying iPhones?

And so what if they made the first personal computer, that doesn't give them the right to go round suing everyone and preventing technology progressing.

I also believe Microsoft is more responsible for bringing the computer home anyway, Apple's Lisa was ridiculously difficult to use and was only for the very rich. Microsoft and various hardware manufacturers allowed anyone to own a computer.

[N!ck]

I <3 Google forever and always.

Google > Apple

[marriott0.01]

I also use Google Mail and I think that is perfection. I think their search engine is perfection, I think many Google services are perfection. Best of all, they're free and actually do change my life for the better.

What always makes me laugh is how Google is so open that despite all this, they continue to develop things for the iPhone. You can thank them for the YouTube and Maps application on it. They also make iPhone services and other applications. I'm sure if Google dropped support for all these things, people would reconsider buying iPhones?

And so what if they made the first personal computer, that doesn't give them the right to go round suing everyone and preventing technology progressing.

I also believe Microsoft is more responsible for bringing the computer home anyway, Apple's Lisa was ridiculously difficult to use and was only for the very rich. Microsoft and various hardware manufacturers allowed anyone to own a computer.

Well do you think the YouTube and Maps apps really matter when it comes to buying a phone? To be honest, I think that the phone itself matters not two lousy apps, and you can replace everything from Google with services that are sometimes better, okay you can't replace YouTube but everything else you can replace for something just as good or even better. You can replace G! Mail with the second most popular Yahoo mail or Live Mail. You can replace Google Maps with a more powerful Bing Maps. You can replace Google Search Engine with a cleverer search engine such as Bing or WolframAlpha. Google isn't the only people doing these services, and they are not the best, it's just their competitors aren't as popular as not as many people have heard about them.

And you say Apple is getting in the way of Technology Progressing, they're actually trying to help it more. Because essentially by suing people what they are doing is stopping people take the technology they have created and let the companies create their own technologies rather than using Apple's technologies for nothing. Stopping technology progressing is when people steal off each other and put it in another product, as Microsoft even said, phones nowadays are just a slightly better version of the last - so no real innovation, whereas if companies stop taking rides on other people's IP then surely companies can come up with their own IP.

In regards to your comment at the bottom, Apple's Lisa may have been difficult, but they sorted them problems out with the Apple Macintosh, which believe it or not was the easiest computer to use at the time, and it was also incredibly cheap for the time. When windows came along they had stolen a lot of things from Apple and instead of fixing the bugs, they had gotten from stealing it outright rather than creating their own software, they essentially created an OS that failed from the beginning, and it's only the most popular because it's the cheapest. The cheaper things in life aren't always the best things in life - by far.

Microsoft allowed various hardware manufactures to use their software, for a high price may I add, to get more of the software out there. To be honest this isn't a good thing, this has poisoned the Windows OS, since the Windows OS tries to run on EVERY computer that manufactures try to put it on, which sometimes don't have the right specs for it or the software can't be run on the computer... Apple builds software and hardware in synergy, so they work together beautifully without any problems. That's what I like about Apple, they ensure everything works before putting it to market and they make sure the computer is built around the software.

[AgnesIO]

I've always believed in you pay for quality, and that's exactly what you get from Apple. You buy something from Apple, you'll see everything simply works to perfection, and you'll honestly take back that statement.

Yeh because up until like January Mac's Core2Duo was perfection? :S

And I know MANY people with iPod's which have ****** up after a year or so.

My one hasn't - but both my sisters have, many of my friends have.

[marriott0.01]

Yeh because up until like January Mac's Core2Duo was perfection? :S

And I know MANY people with iPod's which have ****** up after a year or so.

My one hasn't - but both my sisters have, many of my friends have.

Things mess up under improper use. Not Apple's problem. My iPod's have always been fine, my iPhone (which isn't my main phone because I cba with it) is fine, my Mac's are fine. I see no problem with Apple products.

And which Mac's exactly, the MacBook's or the iMac's?

[N!ck]

marriott, while you have some semi-valid points you're caught up in some kind of Apple elitism.

[Jordy]

Well do you think the YouTube and Maps apps really matter when it comes to buying a phone? To be honest, I think that the phone itself matters not two lousy apps, and you can replace everything from Google with services that are sometimes better, okay you can't replace YouTube but everything else you can replace for something just as good or even better. You can replace G! Mail with the second most popular Yahoo mail or Live Mail. You can replace Google Maps with a more powerful Bing Maps. You can replace Google Search Engine with a cleverer search engine such as Bing or WolframAlpha. Google isn't the only people doing these services, and they are not the best, it's just their competitors aren't as popular as not as many people have heard about them.

And you say Apple is getting in the way of Technology Progressing, they're actually trying to help it more. Because essentially by suing people what they are doing is stopping people take the technology they have created and let the companies create their own technologies rather than using Apple's technologies for nothing. Stopping technology progressing is when people steal off each other and put it in another product, as Microsoft even said, phones nowadays are just a slightly better version of the last - so no real innovation, whereas if companies stop taking rides on other people's IP then surely companies can come up with their own IP.

In regards to your comment at the bottom, Apple's Lisa may have been difficult, but they sorted them problems out with the Apple Macintosh, which believe it or not was the easiest computer to use at the time, and it was also incredibly cheap for the time. When windows came along they had stolen a lot of things from Apple and instead of fixing the bugs, they had gotten from stealing it outright rather than creating their own software, they essentially created an OS that failed from the beginning, and it's only the most popular because it's the cheapest. The cheaper things in life aren't always the best things in life - by far.

Microsoft allowed various hardware manufactures to use their software, for a high price may I add, to get more of the software out there. To be honest this isn't a good thing, this has poisoned the Windows OS, since the Windows OS tries to run on EVERY computer that manufactures try to put it on, which sometimes don't have the right specs for it or the software can't be run on the computer... Apple builds software and hardware in synergy, so they work together beautifully without any problems. That's what I like about Apple, they ensure everything works before putting it to market and they make sure the computer is built around the software.I would totally disagree with synergy. This is synergy for you. I have a Live account, I can access MSN on my Windows Mobile Phone (And various more), Xbox 360 and Windows PC. I can share Windows Media Centre between multiple PCs, Xbox 360s and Zune HDs. Microsoft integrate their Zune services, Hotmail services, Xbox 360 Gamertags, Microsoft Office Online, Skydrive etc all with one Live account which works with so many services and devices. That's what I call synergy.

With an iPad, it can't even share internet from a MacBook or a iPhone, their products fail to interact with each other.

Windows is cheaper yes, but I think millions of people around the world would thank you for that, it has transformed businesses and allowed the internet to expand a lot more. If we were left with solely Macs, lots of people around the world would be without access to computers. Microsoft of course do charge a high premium to manufacturers, hence why the company has become so successful, in terms of both revenue and number of people using the OS, however this is not passed onto the consumer. And I don't think the manufacturers suffer either, Michael Dell is one of the richest men in the world. Windows brought an affordable OS to the masses, provided the manufacturers with a fantastic OS to put on their systems and make them a fortune, and also made Microsoft a fortune. It's win win all round.

Referring to stealing, Microsoft may well be in the wrong for that, Apple are no better for stealing the whole GUI, the foundation of home computing.

I also don't think it's a case of people not knowing what Yahoo and Microsoft have to offer, the vast majority of Google users have used them both in the past. Most people really do think Google's products are far better and I'm sure if Google began stopping it's services being accessed on an iPhone, a surprising number of people would pack in their iPhones.

Apple are preventing technology progressing, they have patented the most basic of things such as multi-touch (This is also the fault of the patent office), without using such simple things, competition cannot progress.

[AgnesIO]

iMac ...

[marriott0.01]

I would totally disagree with synergy. This is synergy for you. I have a Live account, I can access MSN on my Windows Mobile Phone (And various more), Xbox 360 and Windows PC. I can share Windows Media Centre between multiple PCs, Xbox 360s and Zune HDs. Microsoft integrate their Zune services, Hotmail services, Xbox 360 Gamertags, Microsoft Office Online, Skydrive etc all with one Live account which works with so many services and devices. That's what I call synergy.

With an iPad, it can't even share internet from a MacBook or a iPhone, their products fail to interact with each other.

Windows is cheaper yes, but I think millions of people around the world would thank you for that, it has transformed businesses and allowed the internet to expand a lot more. If we were left with solely Macs, lots of people around the world would be without access to computers. Microsoft of course do charge a high premium to manufacturers, hence why the company has become so successful, in terms of both revenue and number of people using the OS, however this is not passed onto the consumer. And I don't think the manufacturers suffer either, Michael Dell is one of the richest men in the world. Windows brought an affordable OS to the masses, provided the manufacturers with a fantastic OS to put on their systems and make them a fortune, and also made Microsoft a fortune. It's win win all round.

Referring to stealing, Microsoft may well be in the wrong for that, Apple are no better for stealing the whole GUI, the foundation of home computing.

I also don't think it's a case of people not knowing what Yahoo and Microsoft have to offer, the vast majority of Google users have used them both in the past. Most people really do think Google's products are far better and I'm sure if Google began stopping it's services being accessed on an iPhone, a surprising number of people would pack in their iPhones.

Apple are preventing technology progressing, they have patented the most basic of things such as multi-touch (This is also the fault of the patent office), without using such simple things, competition cannot progress.

I didn't mean Synergy between services, because Apple also does all this via MobileMe, I mean the Hardware and the software were built for each other. And remember this isn't about Microsoft and Apple, as the companies are getting on well. They collaborate a lot in recent years and Microsoft pays Apple for its IP and Apple pay Microsoft for its IP. And I have nothing against Microsoft I am a fan of the Xbox, Windows Phone 7 Series and the new ZuneHD.

You can quite easily sync bookmarks and things like that with the iPad or iPhone.

Windows is cheaper. But if they're going to make it cheaper they need to fix the problems with it. Which there are plenty. I do like Windows 7 and it is the best version of Windows available, but it's not as good as OSX. Windows isn't the biggest because they are the cheapest, nor are they the biggest because they are the best. They are the biggest because they are the most readily available. Worldwide it is far easier to pick up a PC than it is a Mac. But Apple are now making it easier to pick up Mac's hence why the Mac is growing in market share constantly. You say Michael Dell is one of the Richest men in the world, and so would Steve Jobs be, if it wasn't for himself accepting a salary of $1, simply because he loves Apple and creating great new products, unlike people like Michael Dell who have Salaries well over $1million. In the USA, where companies make some of the most money out of computer sales, Apple is the number 1 computer manufacturer in the US, simply because Apple have concentrated on making Mac's easily available in the US. Also Apple has invested in showing people how the Mac works and why it is better than the PC. Which people in the US now realise, hence why the Mac is the most popular computer in the US.

Apple did steal, and so did Microsoft, but Apple stole with the permission from the CEO of Xerox Star. Microsoft stole without any permission, and lied their way into the development of the Macintosh.

Well I use Google Mail, yes, and I have used Yahoo Mail. But I only use Google Mail, not because it's better because some of the new features in Yahoo Mail put it far above the rest, but because services prefer to integrate with Google mail. And people generally don't use Bing simply because it's new and people know Google. I use Google Search again, because i've used it quite a lot and it's more of a habit to use, but I do like Bing.

People won't recognise the difference if Google stopped producing for Apple, as Apple would just implement Bing, which does the same job to be honest, and the company that would really be hit is Google, considering the iPhone is the most popular way people gain access to the internet, Google's share in the Mobile Search would drop dramatically, meaning a drop in advertising revenue.

Apple are preventing people from stealing from them, not technology progressing. Apple spent billions upon billions coming up with multitouch, now say you spent that much, would you like to see people just using you hard work for free and gaining profit from it? Apple needs to get a return on the innovation they create. And the patent office is essentially trying to help companies do this, get a return on the amount they've invested in the industry. Competition will progress more if people think of a way of creating their own technologies that can better Apple's multitouch, like Nokia is trying to develop multitouch for resistive touchscreens, which would bring innovation into the technology space. And they only did this because they didn't want to pay for Apple's Multitouch license agreement.


iMac ...

Okay I agree their were issues with the 27inch, but Apple are sorting them.

[Recursion]

Technology gets nowhere without companies stealing each other's ideas. Fact.

[marriott0.01]

Technology does not move anywhere without ideas being stolen left right and center. Fact.

It does because people have to create their own stuff to move... Or they would just be moving backwards or be sued and lose money?

[Jordy]

I didn't mean Synergy between services, because Apple also does all this via MobileMe, I mean the Hardware and the software were built for each other. And remember this isn't about Microsoft and Apple, as the companies are getting on well. They collaborate a lot in recent years and Microsoft pays Apple for its IP and Apple pay Microsoft for its IP. And I have nothing against Microsoft I am a fan of the Xbox, Windows Phone 7 Series and the new ZuneHD.

You can quite easily sync bookmarks and things like that with the iPad or iPhone.

Windows is cheaper. But if they're going to make it cheaper they need to fix the problems with it. Which there are plenty. I do like Windows 7 and it is the best version of Windows available, but it's not as good as OSX. Windows isn't the biggest because they are the cheapest, nor are they the biggest because they are the best. They are the biggest because they are the most readily available. Worldwide it is far easier to pick up a PC than it is a Mac. But Apple are now making it easier to pick up Mac's hence why the Mac is growing in market share constantly. You say Michael Dell is one of the Richest men in the world, and so would Steve Jobs be, if it wasn't for himself accepting a salary of $1, simply because he loves Apple and creating great new products, unlike people like Michael Dell who have Salaries well over $1million. In the USA, where companies make some of the most money out of computer sales, Apple is the number 1 computer manufacturer in the US, simply because Apple have concentrated on making Mac's easily available in the US. Also Apple has invested in showing people how the Mac works and why it is better than the PC. Which people in the US now realise, hence why the Mac is the most popular computer in the US.

Apple did steal, and so did Microsoft, but Apple stole with the permission from the CEO of Xerox Star. Microsoft stole without any permission, and lied their way into the development of the Macintosh.

Well I use Google Mail, yes, and I have used Yahoo Mail. But I only use Google Mail, not because it's better because some of the new features in Yahoo Mail put it far above the rest, but because services prefer to integrate with Google mail. And people generally don't use Bing simply because it's new and people know Google. I use Google Search again, because i've used it quite a lot and it's more of a habit to use, but I do like Bing.

People won't recognise the difference if Google stopped producing for Apple, as Apple would just implement Bing, which does the same job to be honest, and the company that would really be hit is Google, considering the iPhone is the most popular way people gain access to the internet, Google's share in the Mobile Search would drop dramatically, meaning a drop in advertising revenue.

Apple are preventing people from stealing from them, not technology progressing. Apple spent billions upon billions coming up with multitouch, now say you spent that much, would you like to see people just using you hard work for free and gaining profit from it? Apple needs to get a return on the innovation they create. And the patent office is essentially trying to help companies do this, get a return on the amount they've invested in the industry. Competition will progress more if people think of a way of creating their own technologies that can better Apple's multitouch, like Nokia is trying to develop multitouch for resistive touchscreens, which would bring innovation into the technology space. And they only did this because they didn't want to pay for Apple's Multitouch license agreement.



Okay I agree their were issues with the 27inch, but Apple are sorting them.I really don't think synchronizing bookmarks matches the synergy of Microsoft or Google. And when it comes to MobileMe, Google offers an identical service for free (rather than £50 a year). Not many know of it but it's there: http://www.google.com/mobile/sync/

However Microsoft's success is not due to it's availability (although it no doubt contributes), it is because of it's value for money. The reason Mac has a small marketshare compared to Microsoft is certainly not because people cannot find Macs in shops. Apple could put their Macs for sale in India and China, the reason they don't is because very few can afford them and they're not practical for business, unlike Windows which is much cheaper and therefore does very well. The likes of Dell and Microsoft, despite their directors and executives making enormous amounts, their companies are still massively successfully, they're not reliant on them pouring money back in. Bill Gates takes lots of money out of Microsoft, yet they're still a success and the real winner from his billions are Charities and the third world.

I do not think multi-touch should be patented never the less, which I blame both Apple and the US patent office for. It's like inventing the screen or the keyboard and claiming no one else can use it. It's something which was bound to happen eventually and is going to be needed by all in the future. They prevent application from really progressing because of how restrictive the App Store is with all it's rules. It doesn't allow apps to complete with it's own services, this means there's no competition to be more innovative, therefore the Apple apps suffer.

[Titch]

Yeah. Someone rated one of the best CEOs in the world is a ruddy fool.

I deem this poll biased because there's a lot of "Microsoft fanboys" here :P

And there is 2 HUGE MEGA MEGA MEGA, would marry apple fan here. (i wonder who they are???) Everyone likes there own things, you cant say a poll is biased becuase people are giving there opiniond, THATS THE WHOLE POINT IN A POLL.

[marriott0.01]

I really don't think synchronizing bookmarks matches the synergy of Microsoft or Google. And when it comes to MobileMe, Google offers an identical service for free (rather than £50 a year). Not many know of it but it's there: http://www.google.com/mobile/sync/

However Microsoft's success is not due to it's availability (although it no doubt contributes), it is because of it's value for money. The reason Mac has a small marketshare compared to Microsoft is certainly not because people cannot find Macs in shops. Apple could put their Macs for sale in India and China, the reason they don't is because very few can afford them and they're not practical for business, unlike Windows which is much cheaper and therefore does very well. The likes of Dell and Microsoft, despite their directors and executives making enormous amounts, their companies are still massively successfully, they're not reliant on them pouring money back in. Bill Gates takes lots of money out of Microsoft, yet they're still a success and the real winner from his billions are Charities and the third world.

I do not think multi-touch should be patented never the less, which I blame both Apple and the US patent office for. It's like inventing the screen or the keyboard and claiming no one else can use it. It's something which was bound to happen eventually and is going to be needed by all in the future. They prevent application from really progressing because of how restrictive the App Store is with all it's rules. It doesn't allow apps to complete with it's own services, this means there's no competition to be more innovative, therefore the Apple apps suffer.

Apple's MobileMe does cost, but I've used it, and it's a pretty amazing thing. I've heard of Google Mobile Sync, used to use it on my N97 now decided to switch to Ovi Sync because it's more integrated into Nokia phones. I know it may not be as 'synergising' but it doesn't need to be. It isn't like Microsoft offering services, they offer software and hardware, they are very different to the things Microsoft do.

It's not value for money, it's simply price, because the value for money is very low, as it's not very good value for the thing you get out of it. And it's actually more expensive to upgrade from Vista > 7 than it is from Leopard > Snow Leopard. So Apple are not making something that is cheap to start off with, but they're giving you something that'll be reasonably priced to start off with but then it'll be pretty much free to run for life. As you won't need to install expensive software or constantly trying to upgrade the computer or do any other modifications as Apple Computer will always work. And you do find Apple Computers in shops worldwide, they are sold to people such as business owners in India and China they are extremely successful, I don't know the stats, but like America, China is a country who uses a lot of Apple products, likewise with Japan. This means that Apple are growing their presence around the world, and it is beginning to hit the UK, more and more people are getting access to Apple Stores where they can buy an Apple Computer after test driving one, and Apple are gaining market share in the UK at a rapid rate. Likewise in Australia which again is a very Apple country like the US. Apple are trying to conquer places step by step, they are trying to make sure everything works around the consumers and the people in them countries will enjoy Apple products. And Apple very much like to shape their products around the consumer whereas Microsoft has created an operating system that tries to fit as many people from all backgrounds into it. Many company owners, and even Bill Gates himself, use Mac's because they are a more executive and easier to use computer, which most company owner's prefer as they need the job done.

General things are patented all the time, wireless technology such as Wifi in phones and even the 3G connection chips are patented by Nokia as they worked tirelessly on creating that technology, and who knew it was going to be as big as they are? No one. Apple or the Patent office couldn't predict how big they were going to be. Obviously Apple would have hoped it was going to be big because of the amount of effort they put into creating it, but obviously they aren't going to stop patenting something because it is theirs, like if you created a piece of technology at your home, someone saw that technology, saw how it worked and everything and simply just went out and sold it, and made much more profit than you, you'll be annoyed.

Apple restricts its apps yes, but they have reasons, they have very tight rules to keep ALL iPhone and iPod Touch users. Women complained about apps that objectified women, so they had to remove them... They create apps for their iPhone, which they don't want people competing with, such as Safari, it's because they don't need to compete with it... Safari simply just works. I do like the look of Opera, however, and I do think Apple will allow it to slip through as they allowed apps such as Spotify, which rivals the iPhone App Store, through, but Apple's iPhone is INCREDIBLY easy to develop for, and they want good quality apps that better the experience for the end user, not crap that you get in the app store offerings from people like Nokia or even some of the Android Apps...


And there is 2 HUGE MEGA MEGA MEGA, would marry apple fan here. (i wonder who they are???) Everyone likes there own things, you cant say a poll is biased becuase people are giving there opiniond, THATS THE WHOLE POINT IN A POLL.

Titch I'm not a mega Apple fan, I like Apple Products but I like Microsoft products too. I even like Google Products, but I think Apple are right in this case...

[GommeInc]

I'm with Google. Jobs is best described as an idiot with an over-inflated ego. His latest spat with everyone just proves this, especially with his incredibly hilarious iPad release speech - it was so full of fail the idiot should of been shot come sunset to save the world from his idiocy.

Apple haven't brought much actually. They didn't bring the computer to the world. They didn't bring the first MP3 player into the world. They didn't bring the first touch phone into the world. They didn't invent multi-touch (they got it off a partnership). The company should of been let to rot when Microsoft bailed them out - out of all of Microsoft's short-comings, saving Apple was their worst idea. Also, the common business phrase "Someone else would of done it anyway" comes to mind. Computers with colour would of turned up either way. Touchscreens have existed for years, it was a matter of time before a company got there. So all this "Apple brought out the first..." is aload of hoo-haa.

[AgnesIO]

Snow Leopard is just a bloody service pack though.. You had to pay to get a service pack.

Windows 7 and vista are not the same. Leopard and Snow Leopard are.

So in actual fact Apple were being ludicrous.

[marriott0.01]

I'm with Google. Jobs is best described as an idiot with an over-inflated ego. His latest spat with everyone just proves this, especially with his incredibly hilarious iPad release speech - it was so full of fail the idiot should of been shot come sunset to save the world from his idiocy.

Apple haven't brought much actually. They didn't bring the computer to the world. They didn't bring the first MP3 player into the world. They didn't bring the first touch phone into the world. They didn't invent multi-touch (they got it off a partnership). The company should of been let to rot when Microsoft bailed them out - out of all of Microsoft's short-comings, saving Apple was their worst idea. Also, the common business phrase "Someone else would of done it anyway" comes to mind. Computers with colour would of turned up either way. Touchscreens have existed for years, it was a matter of time before a company got there. So all this "Apple brought out the first..." is aload of hoo-haa.

I never actually said they brought out the first touchscreen phone nor the first MP3 player, but they brought out by far the most innovative and by far the best offerings of both.

Also Multitouch was there's with a partnership, partnership always suggest they also had something to do with it, pretty much the same as the awesome Project Natal is their's through a purchase of a smaller company...

Also regarding the iPad, it has it's pro's, why did Apple need to change something that was already popular?


Snow Leopard is just a bloody service pack though.. You had to pay to get a service pack.

Windows 7 and vista are not the same. Leopard and Snow Leopard are.

So in actual fact Apple were being ludicrous.

Snow Leopard improved on so many things that it couldn't even be classed as a service pack. They've reworked a lot of things in Snow Leopard and some of the UI has changed, so it is a completely new OS.

Windows 7 is what Vista should of been, and it is very similar to Vista, the UI and some code was changed, although I have nothing against 7. I've said repeatedly i have issues with no companies, they're all good in their own sense... I'm just saying doesn't Apple have a right to protect its IP, why the attacks on Apple lols?

[GommeInc]

I never actually said they brought out the first touchscreen phone nor the first MP3 player, but they brought out by far the most innovative and by far the best offerings of both.
Liar -

"They were the people to first bring the personal computer to the masses with the Apple Lisa and that was also the first computer to actually be COLOUR! God forbid could i use a computer these days if it was in black and white. They also brought multi-touch and a lot of other innovations."

They didn't even sell personal computers to the masses.


Also Multitouch was there's with a partnership, partnership always suggest they also had something to do with it, pretty much the same as the awesome Project Natal is their's through a purchase of a smaller company...

Also regarding the iPad, it has it's pro's, why did Apple need to change something that was already popular?
No, the partnership was between two people (or a small group of people). Apple just saw an opportunity and applied it to the iPhone. They didn't create multi-touch nor help develop it. They just implemented into a phone setting.

And exactly, the iPad was advertised to be better than a NetBook - a cross between an iPhone (first FAIL by Jobs, it hasn't got any phone functionality) and a MacBook (the second FAIL by Jobs, the iPad Touch XL relies on a MacBook/NetBook/PC/Mac to function).

[marriott0.01]

Liar -

"They were the people to first bring the personal computer to the masses with the Apple Lisa and that was also the first computer to actually be COLOUR! God forbid could i use a computer these days if it was in black and white. They also brought multi-touch and a lot of other innovations."

They didn't even sell personal computers to the masses.


No, the partnership was between two people (or a small group of people). Apple just saw an opportunity and applied it to the iPhone. They didn't create multi-touch nor help develop it. They just implemented into a phone setting.

And exactly, the iPad was advertised to be better than a NetBook - a cross between an iPhone (first FAIL by Jobs, it hasn't got any phone functionality) and a MacBook (the second FAIL by Jobs, the iPad Touch XL relies on a MacBook/NetBook/PC/Mac to function).

Exactly I said first to bring the personal computer to the masses, I said I never said 'first touchscreen phone nor the first MP3 player' they did bring the first REAL colour personal computer to the masses, the first one with a GUI is what I'm talking about. And Masses, yes. it was the masses, for those days, obviously not talking about the masses we have these days as that is just completely different.

Okay I may have been mistaken about the Multi-touch, the people to actually CREATE it were people at a University, but what Apple did was ADD to the innovation, which made it amazing..? So apple didn't just 'apply it to the iPhone' but they remastered the initial multi-touch development, so its not just a phone setting. And they were the first people to bring multi-touch to market.

The iPad is better than a netbook, netbooks are good for no one, they are small and pathetic. And it is a cross between an iPhone/iPod Touch, as it does have 3G, but it was never meant to be a phone, because would you SERIOUSLY want to put that massive thing to your face to answer a call? - no? Didn't think so. And the iPad was never meant to replace your computer.. Steve Jobs said himself. It's meant to be an extension on your internet usage out of using the computer all the time.. Obviously you'll still need a computer? And you may hate the iPad, but obviously a lot of people don't since it has sold a LOT of pre-orders, even more than the initial iPhone.

[GommeInc]

The idiot used NetBooks in his speech, he was comparing the iPod Touch XL to what the NetBook does, and failed miserably. Any techie person would of noticed this. The funny thing is, the Microsoft Courier, the HP tablet and the rest of the tablet PCs using a version of Windows 7, are rumoured to be using a proper OS, and can actually self-sustain themselves like a NetBook, but in a digital frame sort of way with USBs and so fort. The iPad is just a joke as far as the tech world is concerned. Apple failed just by calling it the iPad, with which the name has been used before in a viral video (or it existed on TV, not sure) which was a joke on ladies absorbent pads :P The name is far too similar to iPod too, no other company names its product so similarly. Not to mention it is seen as the iPod Touch, but for the elderly or people with poor eyesight. It's a ghastly blooming thing too, with an inch of border around the screen. Very digital picture frame-esque :P

[marriott0.01]

The idiot used NetBooks in his speech, he was comparing the iPod Touch XL to what the NetBook does, and failed miserably. Any techie person would of noticed this. The funny thing is, the Microsoft Courier, the HP tablet and the rest of the tablet PCs using a version of Windows 7, are rumoured to be using a proper OS, and can actually self-sustain themselves like a NetBook, but in a digital frame sort of way with USBs and so fort. The iPad is just a joke as far as the tech world is concerned. Apple failed just by calling it the iPad, with which the name has been used before in a viral video (or it existed on TV, not sure) which was a joke on ladies absorbent pads :P The name is far too similar to iPod too, no other company names its product so similarly. Not to mention it is seen as the iPod Touch, but for the elderly or people with poor eyesight. It's a ghastly blooming thing too, with an inch of border around the screen. Very digital picture frame-esque :P

Tbh, Netbooks are an answer to nothing. Netbooks are meant to be a device which is ideal for watching movies/viewing photos/browsing the web. To be honest the screens are generally unvibrant and completely awful. They're also meant to be good for productivity, which to be honest, why?! Can you type on that keyboard? Nope. I sure can't. When going to tech events like CES or Macworld or even MWC, I'll always take my MacBook Pro with me, I'll probably do the same on Saturday when I go to the Ideal Home show, I'd never replace it with either the iPad or a crappy little netbook.

The HP slate, to be honest don't get me started. That thing is a tech mans wet dream lols, same with the Microsoft Courier. The HP slate running Windows 7 is great, hopefully it can actually RUN Windows 7 unlike most of Dell's computers.. lol. The courier is no longer running Windows 7 and is getting it's own software and UI, if you haven't seen the latest UI just ask me to send you a link, and I'll be happy to show you.. But yeah them two products beat the iPad? I've never said the iPad was AMAZING! It's good at what it's meant to do, it's bloody brilliant for photos and videos and even web, but it's like a netbook crap for productivity.

The iPad is a good device in its own respect, it fits a certain niche of the market, rather than the masses, much the same as netbooks. Joshua Toplosky who is the editor of engadget actually tweeted 'Just ordered an iPad, and I can't think of why on earth I did?' Because plain and simple, some people don't see the point of the iPad as it's just a reworked version of the iPod Touch but some people do see the point, and it is a great device if you were a MASSIVE fan of the iPod Touch...

I saw that video was rather funny lols.

And it's actually funny to hear you say about the resemblance to a digital photo frame, as my actual thoughts on the iPad, is that the photo slideshows are epic. lols. Honestly, I would rather use this thing as a digital photo frame than any other product on the market.

Now, as I've said, several times... I do believe that some tech companies like Microsoft, HP etc are great as they have brought innovation to the market, but they've done it without stealing, so isn't it right that Apple can protect their innovation from being stolen from? :P

[xxMATTGxx]

I think Apple is a big joke at the moment to be honest, what Tom (Recursion) said is very true. I'm on Google's side all the way, I use their services everyday. :)

[GommeInc]

Tbh, Netbooks are an answer to nothing. Netbooks are meant to be a device which is ideal for watching movies/viewing photos/browsing the web. To be honest the screens are generally unvibrant and completely awful. They're also meant to be good for productivity, which to be honest, why?! Can you type on that keyboard? Nope. I sure can't. When going to tech events like CES or Macworld or even MWC, I'll always take my MacBook Pro with me, I'll probably do the same on Saturday when I go to the Ideal Home show, I'd never replace it with either the iPad or a crappy little netbook.
You clearly have not seen what alot of students are using :P A NetBook is ideal for students - cheap, reliable and productive. They come with webcams too, which is pretty good, a student can get in contact via webcam to people. They're more productive than what an iPad is capable of - although the iPad is now no longer compared to a NetBook, you might as well put salt in Job's wound, he made a terrible mistake attacking the NetBook market with bias and ignorance.



The HP slate, to be honest don't get me started. That thing is a tech mans wet dream lols, same with the Microsoft Courier. The HP slate running Windows 7 is great, hopefully it can actually RUN Windows 7 unlike most of Dell's computers.. lol. The courier is no longer running Windows 7 and is getting it's own software and UI, if you haven't seen the latest UI just ask me to send you a link, and I'll be happy to show you.. But yeah them two products beat the iPad? I've never said the iPad was AMAZING! It's good at what it's meant to do, it's bloody brilliant for photos and videos and even web, but it's like a netbook crap for productivity.
So the Courier is no longer using a type of Windows 7? Urgh, why must they be so annoying? :/ Then again, the way the Courier is being advertised is like the iPad, good for books and can be used like one. Microsoft did a better job announcing the Courier than Apple did with the iPad - Microsoft told you what the plans were and what it would be ideal for, while Apple were trying to make a new product out of an already existing product - just with a new iBook Store (or whatever Apple ahve called it).


The iPad is a good device in its own respect, it fits a certain niche of the market, rather than the masses, much the same as netbooks. Joshua Toplosky who is the editor of engadget actually tweeted 'Just ordered an iPad, and I can't think of why on earth I did?' Because plain and simple, some people don't see the point of the iPad as it's just a reworked version of the iPod Touch but some people do see the point, and it is a great device if you were a MASSIVE fan of the iPod Touch...
What niche is this? It just turned up on the door with a note saying "Buy me!" That area of this particularl market has always exist under the iPod Touch market, except now they have a larger one to use with 3G. Again, the way it was released was poorly done. It's not a new product, they might as well of chucked it in with the iPod Touch and said "here's a bigger one, don't get too existed - it's nothing special."


And it's actually funny to hear you say about the resemblance to a digital photo frame, as my actual thoughts on the iPad, is that the photo slideshows are epic. lols. Honestly, I would rather use this thing as a digital photo frame than any other product on the market.
I thought it was an Apple branded picture frame in the pictures. That border is rediculous :P


Now, as I've said, several times... I do believe that some tech companies like Microsoft, HP etc are great as they have brought innovation to the market, but they've done it without stealing, so isn't it right that Apple can protect their innovation from being stolen from? :P
But they're protecting something that can be done by anyone - it's not special. This is the argument with patents and mobile UIs. The US patent system is so bonkers you can patent anything, in a general way. Apple have patented Multi-Touch, which is generalised and not specific. While other countries, you can only patent the way in which multi-touch is implemented as a concept. Apple are just trying to hog something that anyone should be able to do, because, naturally, they're worried that other companies will (and mostly definitely will anyway), do a better job. Isn't this what comes in Android 2.2?

[Firehorse]

Tbh, Netbooks are an answer to nothing. Netbooks are meant to be a device which is ideal for watching movies/viewing photos/browsing the web. To be honest the screens are generally unvibrant and completely awful. They're also meant to be good for productivity, which to be honest, why?! Can you type on that keyboard? Nope. I sure can't. When going to tech events like CES or Macworld or even MWC, I'll always take my MacBook Pro with me, I'll probably do the same on Saturday when I go to the Ideal Home show, I'd never replace it with either the iPad or a crappy little netbook.

The HP slate, to be honest don't get me started. That thing is a tech mans wet dream lols, same with the Microsoft Courier. The HP slate running Windows 7 is great, hopefully it can actually RUN Windows 7 unlike most of Dell's computers.. lol. The courier is no longer running Windows 7 and is getting it's own software and UI, if you haven't seen the latest UI just ask me to send you a link, and I'll be happy to show you.. But yeah them two products beat the iPad? I've never said the iPad was AMAZING! It's good at what it's meant to do, it's bloody brilliant for photos and videos and even web, but it's like a netbook crap for productivity.

The iPad is a good device in its own respect, it fits a certain niche of the market, rather than the masses, much the same as netbooks. Joshua Toplosky who is the editor of engadget actually tweeted 'Just ordered an iPad, and I can't think of why on earth I did?' Because plain and simple, some people don't see the point of the iPad as it's just a reworked version of the iPod Touch but some people do see the point, and it is a great device if you were a MASSIVE fan of the iPod Touch...

I saw that video was rather funny lols.

And it's actually funny to hear you say about the resemblance to a digital photo frame, as my actual thoughts on the iPad, is that the photo slideshows are epic. lols. Honestly, I would rather use this thing as a digital photo frame than any other product on the market.

Now, as I've said, several times... I do believe that some tech companies like Microsoft, HP etc are great as they have brought innovation to the market, but they've done it without stealing, so isn't it right that Apple can protect their innovation from being stolen from? :P

i'm just casually reading this thread and everyone is making very valid points against apple and it seems you're typing 'till the death to defend them. Its like you religiously worship them or something, take a look from a wider viewpoint and realise that apple aren't all they seem to be. Yes their stuff looks snazzy a lot of the time but thats like buying food for what it looks like and not what it tastes like - the iPad is nowhere near as superior as a netbook and for your information yes you can type easily on netbooks because their keyboards are larger than the horizontal one on the iPad, I own a netbook and FYI: It has all the capabilities of a normal computer apart from no DVD drive which can be added via USB anyway.

On the matter of Steve Jobs, I Quote: "The iPad is truly magical, amazing, superior, wonderful to hold, perfect experience.... etc etc etc" He is just being a salesman when he gets on that stage, nothing more nothing less.

[marriott0.01]

You clearly have not seen what alot of students are using :P A NetBook is ideal for students - cheap, reliable and productive. They come with webcams too, which is pretty good, a student can get in contact via webcam to people. They're more productive than what an iPad is capable of - although the iPad is now no longer compared to a NetBook, you might as well put salt in Job's wound, he made a terrible mistake attacking the NetBook market with bias and ignorance.

To be honest, the most popular computer with students is still the mac, and using the mac it's obvious why. And of course the iPad is not very productive. Never said it would be because that would just be stupid ;) lols, and I would attack the NetBook market because they are an embarrassment to technology, they're underpowered and just too small. And when you were talking about a webcam to 'get in contact with people' I actually chuckled at that ;)



So the Courier is no longer using a type of Windows 7? Urgh, why must they be so annoying? :/ Then again, the way the Courier is being advertised is like the iPad, good for books and can be used like one. Microsoft did a better job announcing the Courier than Apple did with the iPad - Microsoft told you what the plans were and what it would be ideal for, while Apple were trying to make a new product out of an already existing product - just with a new iBook Store (or whatever Apple ahve called it).

No the courier doesn't but the OS they're using is very nice - http://www.engadget.com/2010/03/05/microsofts-courier-digital-journal-exclusive-pictures-and-de/ - AND officially Microsoft haven't announced it, which doesn't surprise me, because why announce an unfinished product? Apple has made a product which is better than the Kindle for reading, and I'd rather read on the iPad than the iPhone or even my laptop. So I guess you've gotta give it props for that. And yeah it is the iBook store.



What niche is this? It just turned up on the door with a note saying "Buy me!" That area of this particularl market has always exist under the iPod Touch market, except now they have a larger one to use with 3G. Again, the way it was released was poorly done. It's not a new product, they might as well of chucked it in with the iPod Touch and said "here's a bigger one, don't get too existed - it's nothing special."

Lols, I love how you phrased that, and no it appeals to people who want the best movie experience and a gorgeous touchscreen device that is large enough to see the internet on the go. Obviously this isn't the end of all products that are going to do this, and this is going to be destroyed by things like the HP slate and the courier (maybe) but we've got to continue moving on, and obviously it isn't going to be anything 'special' rather like every single new phone, as Microsoft put it, 'is just a slightly better version than the last'. So you don't really get much innovation happening in the mobile devices industry anymore, now Apple is on top lols.



I thought it was an Apple branded picture frame in the pictures. That border is rediculous :P

Maybe if they marketed it as that they could sell one to you :P


But they're protecting something that can be done by anyone - it's not special. This is the argument with patents and mobile UIs. The US patent system is so bonkers you can patent anything, in a general way. Apple have patented Multi-Touch, which is generalised and not specific. While other countries, you can only patent the way in which multi-touch is implemented as a concept. Apple are just trying to hog something that anyone should be able to do, because, naturally, they're worried that other companies will (and mostly definitely will anyway), do a better job. Isn't this what comes in Android 2.2?

The US Patent System may be like that, but investments are made and returns need to be made, so Apple, as well as any other company that owns IP will sue if people try to make money off their innovation. You wouldn't think a company would spend loads on R&D and then just let other companies use this R&D time and money willy nilly. And I'm a great big fan of Android, I can hardly fault it, I love the OS, and I am great with giving phone advice and generally my advice would have to include Android as an option, as it is amazing...


i'm just casually reading this thread and everyone is making very valid points against apple and it seems you're typing 'till the death to defend them. Its like you religiously worship them or something, take a look from a wider viewpoint and realise that apple aren't all they seem to be. Yes their stuff looks snazzy a lot of the time but thats like buying food for what it looks like and not what it tastes like - the iPad is nowhere near as superior as a netbook and for your information yes you can type easily on netbooks because their keyboards are larger than the horizontal one on the iPad, I own a netbook and FYI: It has all the capabilities of a normal computer apart from no DVD drive which can be added via USB anyway.

On the matter of Steve Jobs, I Quote: "The iPad is truly magical, amazing, superior, wonderful to hold, perfect experience.... etc etc etc" He is just being a salesman when he gets on that stage, nothing more nothing less.

I'm not fighting to the death for Apple, and I wouldn't say Apple are perfect - no company is. I would say Apple are great because there products are good, and you can see i'm taking on the points that people are making, and developing them as a counter argument. I have taken a wider view point, and I do realise that other companies have made a lot of innovations.

Also have you even ever tried typing on an iPad? It is actually so easy to type with, I've tried typing with a netbook, they are incredibly difficult to type with because unlike the keys on the iPad's horizontal screen, they're incredibly cramped. And yes, they may have the capabilities, but they don't have the hardware in them to run Windows like say a normal desktop computer can Windows. It's why i would never recommend to anyone on getting a netbook, they're just not powerful enough or useable enough - yet.

Which CEO of a company ISN'T a salesman? They want you to buy their product quite evidently, otherwise they wouldn't bother getting on stage. Although Steve Jobs has this different personality around him that he can really connect with his audience.

[HotelUser]

I want to point out I find it incredibly humorous how several of you are calling Steve Jobs an idiot, when you've completely neglected what he's done for the industry, without him personal computers wouldn't be where they're at today, and a blackberry or 2 inch screen windows mobile phone would be our best smartphones. For an idiot I guess he sure does well with the innovation, and creation of a multibillion dollar company? And I'm not preaching here because I too think Apple charges too much for products, and I am not a fan of the nonjailbroken app availability on an iPhone. Once you folks learn 1/2 of the business choices Jobs has made, and learn more about his business strategy, I'll be prepared to listen to you rant about him. Otherwise I don't care?

More on what I said about deeming your guys opinions irrelevant: several of you have said some things I don't quite find accurate. For example when Vista was the operating system of choice for a lot of you and I took it upon myself to tell you how horrible it was you disagreed saying there's nothing wrong with Vista and that I was nuts, yett, when Windows 7 rolls around most of you magically have an epiphany and you're now looking through the same glasses as I am, saying it does suck? Why on Earth am I going to now care what you have to say when it's so plainly obvious you're going to follow whatever's new from Microsoft :S

On the iPad, how about instead of criticizing the people buying them (HI TOM) or the product itself (HI MATT), you actually get some experience using one before going all hate on it. When I take a thread and completely tear up the Blackberry I'm going to hate on it yes, but I'm going to provide many reasons why I don't like it based on the experience I have using it. If you don't have experience using it the only real thing you can hate about it's the price. If you're saying anything else I'm not really going to care. It's like when two users on the forum were twittering about how stupid the Magic mouse is. The mouse wasn't out yet and the main hater doesn't use OS X. How on Earth can he justify criticizing it when he's never used it? He can't.

@GommeInc Now that I've got my quad core since Christmas I use Windows 7 and OS X both equally. I honestly don't have a bias against Windows or OS X. My 2007 PC has been re-imaged 4 times. My 2007 iMac has never been re-imaged. My 2007 iMac will boot faster on worse spec than the intel core2quad. When it comes to gaming my quad core's going to win hands down, but for lasting longer my iMac's going to prevail. It's more money but in my opinion it actually is more of a solid product. It's like the iPods, my sony mp3 walkmen is toast but my first gen iPod's still working like new.

[N!ck]

More on what I said about deeming your guys opinions irrelevant: several of you have said some things I don't quite find accurate. For example when Vista was the operating system of choice for a lot of you and I took it upon myself to tell you how horrible it was you disagreed saying there's nothing wrong with Vista and that I was nuts, yett, when Windows 7 rolls around most of you magically have an epiphany and you're now looking through the same glasses as I am, saying it does suck? Why on Earth am I going to now care what you have to say when it's so plainly obvious you're going to follow whatever's new from Microsoft :S

I'm sorry, I've never been a big Vista fan and have never really used it as my primary OS. The service packs fixed a lot of the issues but I'm still not a fan. You want to know why? Because it's more like OS X in the sense of "end users are idiots so let's hide all of the things that more advanced users might want to do and make them more effort to get at" and "lets make it do stuff automatically in the background to make everything "better" but not really let the user have much say in what's going on". Windows 7 is also like this in some ways IMO, not not as bad. It's still far better than XP.

Vista was fail. The iPad will be fail.

Also, this whole multi-touch thing really pisses me off. It's like saying "we were the first people to make scroll wheels on mice work with our OS so let's patent it and not let anyone else use it". Ludicrous hardware patents that actually stop other companies from advancing and being competitors.

[GommeInc]

More on what I said about deeming your guys opinions irrelevant: several of you have said some things I don't quite find accurate. For example when Vista was the operating system of choice for a lot of you and I took it upon myself to tell you how horrible it was you disagreed saying there's nothing wrong with Vista and that I was nuts, yett, when Windows 7 rolls around most of you magically have an epiphany and you're now looking through the same glasses as I am, saying it does suck? Why on Earth am I going to now care what you have to say when it's so plainly obvious you're going to follow whatever's new from Microsoft :S
Are people not allowed to upgrade their computers now :S Vista was good and useable for me, but I liked 7. No harm done :/

[HotelUser]

I'm sorry, I've never been a big Vista fan and have never really used it as my primary OS. The service packs fixed a lot of the issues but I'm still not a fan. You want to know why? Because it's more like OS X in the sense of "end users are idiots so let's hide all of the things that more advanced users might want to do and make them more effort to get at" and "lets make it do stuff automatically in the background to make everything "better" but not really let the user have much say in what's going on". Windows 7 is also like this in some ways IMO, not not as bad. It's still far better than XP.

Vista was fail. The iPad will be fail.

Also, this whole multi-touch thing really pisses me off. It's like saying "we were the first people to make scroll wheels on mice work with our OS so let's patent it and not let anyone else use it". Ludicrous hardware patents that actually stop other companies from advancing and being competitors.

I might agree with some points depending on what you're saying OS X and Vista are hiding from advanced users that they would care about. I've customized my OS X installation quite abit, and when I was unfortunate enough to run Vista lack of flexibility wouldn't have been my biggest complaint, either.

[AgnesIO]

I NEVER used Vista on my main PC.

And fantastic news marriot. I have always wanted a £450 thing that is great to display photos. I mean at least come up with something it is good for, apart from bloody photos.

[HotelUser]

I NEVER used Vista on my main PC.

And fantastic news marriot. I have always wanted a £450 thing that is great to display photos. I mean at least come up with something it is good for, apart from bloody photos.

Allow me:
1. Many and easy access to finger friendly applications
2. Good gaming support considering it's a mobile platform
3. Good web browsing and E-mail client for a mobile platform
4. It's instant on, unlike netbooks which have to boot a full operating system to use, and tend not to have good standby time


But anyway that's what Apple's saying really. I wont buy an iPad anytime soon but I probably will by one or an iPad like device over another Netbook. I'm just not stupid enough to hate on the iPad before I use one. Doing that wouldn't make me look like the typical mr. Microsoft Apple hater at all!

[Firehorse]

4. It's instant on, unlike netbooks which have to boot a full operating system to use, and tend not to have good standby time

It isn't instant on, thats only if you leave it on lock/standby which you can also do with computers if thats what you call "instant on". My iPod Touch takes as long as my main PC to boot up.

[marriott0.01]

It isn't instant on, thats only if you leave it on lock/standby which you can also do with computers if thats what you call "instant on". My iPod Touch takes as long as my main PC to boot up.

Just thought I'd interject their. iPhone OS has tended to run on crappy processors and hardware, the iPod Touch Processor is like 256mHz or something... Whereas the Processor for the iPad is 1Ghz which means it SHOULD be instantly on near enough :)

[Recursion]

Just thought I'd interject their. iPhone OS has tended to run on crappy processors and hardware, the iPod Touch Processor is like 256mHz or something... Whereas the Processor for the iPad is 1Ghz which means it SHOULD be instantly on near enough :)

Even with a 1GHz CPU, The iPad OS won't boot up very quickly at all, but then again, who ever turns their iPod Touchs or (will) turn their iPad off? :S

[lazerman]

Apple just wants to win and make lots of money

google just wants the best for it users.


google ftw.

[marriott0.01]

Apple just wants to win and make lots of money

google just wants the best for it users.


google ftw.

Google is just as much in it for the money but they can offer their services for free, because you don't notice where they get their money from, annoying little advertisements. Everyone company is in it for the money, so that's really an invalid point.

[lazerman]

So? Advertisements...yumm

Better than overpriced ****** products with a ******** with his head so far up his arse.

[marriott0.01]

So? Advertisements...yumm

Better than overpriced ****** products with a ******** with his head so far up his arse.

Your just here to criticise Apple, who is an incredibly successful company, please if you want to stay in this thread please post constructively and don't just troll. At least most people here have explained why they hate Apple.

And overpriced? Erm you generally pay for the amount the product is worth, Apple actually has a less profit margin then a company like say Microsoft, because Microsoft's products worth compared to their sell price is very high, while Apple's is very low.

[lazerman]

More people buy Microsoft stuff then apples anyways? obvs there gonna be a bigger profit margin.


Oh, My school has Apple only computers. I owned and still own iPhones, iPods, macbook. So I do have a lot of experience then most of you in this bloody forum thanks.

As I said, He still so far up his arse.

[marriott0.01]

More people buy Microsoft stuff then apples anyways? obvs there gonna be a bigger profit margin.


Oh, My school has Apple only computers. I owned and still own iPhones, iPods, macbook. So I do have a lot of experience then most of you in this bloody forum thanks.

As I said, He still so far up his arse.

Who exactly is he?

[lazerman]

Steve Jobs?

[AgnesIO]

Who exactly is he?

Jobs obviously? :S


Your just here to criticise Apple, who is an incredibly successful company, please if you want to stay in this thread please post constructively and don't just troll. At least most people here have explained why they hate Apple.

And overpriced? Erm you generally pay for the amount the product is worth, Apple actually has a less profit margin then a company like say Microsoft, because Microsoft's products worth compared to their sell price is very high, while Apple's is very low.

Is that joke. You re saying he iPad is WORTH £400? You are saying iMac's are WORTH 999$? Dont make me laugh.

[lazerman]

I bet he asked me that question to trick me out

hahaha

[marriott0.01]

Jobs obviously? :S



Is that joke. You re saying he iPad is WORTH £400? You are saying iMac's are WORTH 999$? Dont make me laugh.

I would say that the £1,174 I paid for my old old old MacBook Pro was WELL worth it. I was thoroughly pleased that I had no headaches etc... And it simply just worked. I had to spend little much after that, all I essentially bought for the laptop after that was things like iWork. Pretty much it.. So it had great value for money, and since then I've been Mac user predominantly.

[AgnesIO]

I would say that the £1,174 I paid for my old old old MacBook Pro was WELL worth it. I was thoroughly pleased that I had no headaches etc... And it simply just worked. I had to spend little much after that, all I essentially bought for the laptop after that was things like iWork. Pretty much it.. So it had great value for money, and since then I've been Mac user predominantly.

Yet I could buy a HP laptop for £500, with the SAME specs and be VERY pleased with that.

And you go on about us not accepting things hat you believe, yet you refuse to accept that Google is more like than Apple? Even though your poll is obvious.. but still - I guess some people just wont take it ?

[marriott0.01]

Yet I could buy a HP laptop for £500, with the SAME specs and be VERY pleased with that.

And you go on about us not accepting things hat you believe, yet you refuse to accept that Google is more like than Apple? Even though your poll is obvious.. but still - I guess some people just wont take it ?

I've never said Apple is more liked than Google, and I'm sure 19 people voting in a poll on this forum wouldn't exactly make them results valid much? And I have said I DO like Google, I just think companies shouldn't steal other people's things...

[lazerman]

Example of google stealing off apple.

I want to hear it from your own words.

[marriott0.01]

Example of google stealing off apple.

I want to hear it from your own words.

Erm they implemented Multi-touch without Apple's permission, who owns the patent.

[N!ck]

Erm they implemented Multi-touch without Apple's permission, who owns the patent.

Multi-touch is a natural technological progression. Things like that shouldn't be patented.

It's like Apple saying they patented DVD burners. Everyone else then has just to read disks and not write them unless on an Apple because they patented it even though DVD-RW is the natural technological progression from DVD-ROM.

Probably not the best example.

[Firehorse]

Multi-touch is a natural technological progression. Things like that shouldn't be patented.

It's like Apple saying they patented DVD burners. Everyone else then has just to read disks and not write them unless on an Apple because they patented it even though DVD-RW is the natural technological progression from DVD-ROM.

Probably not the best example.

A better example would be if a games producer had decided to patent games being 3D after they stopped being 2D, where would we be today if that had happened?

[AgnesIO]

Erm they implemented Multi-touch without Apple's permission, who owns the patent.

Clearly it doesn't matter or it would have been banned.

[Titch]

I've never said Apple is more liked than Google, and I'm sure 19 people voting in a poll on this forum wouldn't exactly make them results valid much? And I have said I DO like Google, I just think companies shouldn't steal other people's things...


Apple dont steal ideas LOOOOOOOL, they have had over 160 lawsuites against them in past 10 years for stealing.......

Heres a article describing some of things they have stolen http://www.engadget.com/2007/07/05/apples-little-problem-with-ripping-off-artists/

[lazerman]

Erm they implemented Multi-touch without Apple's permission, who owns the patent.

Cool, Who cares?


>.<


Apple dont steal ideas LOOOOOOOL, they have had over 160 lawsuites against them in past 10 years for stealing.......

Heres a article describing some of things they have stolen http://www.engadget.com/2007/07/05/apples-little-problem-with-ripping-off-artists/

Who said anything about apple stealing ideas?

No thanx

[lazerman]

Erm they implemented Multi-touch without Apple's permission, who owns the patent.

Cool, Who cares?


>.<


Apple dont steal ideas LOOOOOOOL, they have had over 160 lawsuites against them in past 10 years for stealing.......

Heres a article describing some of things they have stolen http://www.engadget.com/2007/07/05/apples-little-problem-with-ripping-off-artists/

Who said anything about apple stealing ideas?

No thanx